Tuesday, 2017-08-15

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srwilkers#startmeeting openstack-helm15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 15 15:00:09 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is srwilkers. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_helm'15:00
jayahno/15:00
alraddarlao/15:00
srwilkers#topic roll call15:00
*** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)"15:00
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srwilkerso/15:00
raymaikao/15:00
lrensingo/15:00
portdirect\o15:01
srwilkershello everyone :)15:01
srwilkershere's the agenda for today: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-helm-meeting-2017-08-1515:01
jayahntoday was holiday here. :) it seems lots of things happening over there cross the pacific ;) long meeting note.15:01
srwilkersgot quite a bit of information on it already, but we can take a few minutes to add anything else15:01
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v1k0d3no/ (sorry late)15:02
srwilkersnice jayahn -- hope you enjoyed the holiday :)15:02
mattmceueno/ GM all15:02
srwilkershey mattmceuen15:03
srwilkerswelcome to the party15:03
srwilkerslet's go ahead and get started15:03
srwilkers#topic PTG reminder15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "PTG reminder (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)"15:03
lamto/15:03
srwilkersjust a friendly reminder -- the PTG's coming up quickly, so wanted to call attention back to the etherpad we had running for discussions: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-helm-denver-ptg-topics15:04
jayahnis there any schedule for ptg meeting, especially when we have meetings during five days of PTG.15:04
srwilkersalso, since we're a hosted project, we wont have an officially scheduled time.  i do know myself, portdirect, lamt and alraddarla will be there throughout the entire week15:04
portdirectthink alanmeadows should be around too15:05
srwilkerswe'll be responsible for identifying our own time to meet unfortunately, as we cant be put on the schedule officially15:05
srwilkersits hard to see him in that black fleece15:05
srwilkershe melds into everything15:05
jayahnI would like to leave early if possible, probably on Thursday. will it be possible to have all openstack-helm meetings between Mon - Wendesday? just asking. :)15:05
srwilkersjayahn: absolutely15:05
jayahngreat. then, i will finalize my flight. :)15:06
srwilkersjayahn: awesome.  look forward to seeing and chatting with you :)15:06
portdirectjayahn: but then we miss you on friday night :(15:06
jayahnyeah.. that is true.15:06
alraddarlai'm leaving friday night too :(15:06
srwilkers#topic Libvirt/OVS breakout15:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Libvirt/OVS breakout (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)"15:07
* portdirect can come out for 1 (or 8) on thurs - but has work to do on friday :(15:07
srwilkersportdirect: floors yours15:07
portdirecthey, so I've started work on pulling libvirt and ovs out of their parent charts15:08
portdirectthey were odd-ducks in osh as they included the supporting infra15:08
portdirectmaking it hard to plug in other backends15:08
portdirectand when they were - they seemed like 2nd class citizens15:08
portdirectthis was also causeing us some trouble when we wanted to use theservice (gasp) without openstack15:09
v1k0d3nthis is really good to see.15:09
v1k0d3nis there a blueprint?15:09
portdirectthe two ps's are up in gerrit - and I hope to have fininshed by eod15:09
portdirectthough reviews welcome15:09
portdirectv1k0d3n: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-helm/+spec/split-nova-and-neutron-infra15:09
v1k0d3ngreat! thanks portdirect15:10
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portdirectthis will also make the neutron work a lot eaier i think for onos and other sdn backends to come in15:10
v1k0d3nthat makes things much more flexible. was wondering how the team was going to implement this, although it was pretty obvious this is probably the best path.15:10
portdirect*easier15:10
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jayahn okay. +1 on breaking out these two.15:11
srwilkersnice.  any other comments on this topic?15:12
v1k0d3ndocs are going to be included as well portdirect ?15:12
portdirectcheck the ps :)15:12
v1k0d3ni saw that. but other than just copy paste...i mean explanation on why, how this open things up to be more flexible.15:13
srwilkersi think a mention of the flexibility it adds would be sufficient in my eyes -- the goals always been to be pluggable, and this really brings the charts in line with the message we've been trying to sell15:15
portdirectIts fits the mission statement of osh i think?15:15
srwilkersi think so.  i think the addition of varying backends would require a bit of documentation covering any of the specifics that might shed light on what they offer, but i'd like to see those added as the additional backends are brought in15:16
v1k0d3nthis is probably really easy to see for developers or those close to the project....15:16
portdirecthttps://github.com/openstack/openstack-helm#mission15:17
v1k0d3nhowever, i think it's a little lost that users struggle with OSH, and we're really trying to win over new operators and contributors. expanding on ps like these are the "ah-ha" moments that operators need.15:17
v1k0d3nreferring back to the mission doesn't really explain how each knob works.15:18
srwilkersi think we need to balance which knobs need explaining -- there's two extremes i think.  too little explanation and too much.  i'm really fond of having self-documenting code and having it structured to represent that15:18
portdirect+215:19
portdirectperhaps this is a perfect moment to lead into the next topic?15:20
v1k0d3ni agree with balancing knobs. but only documenting cut/paste deployment commands shouldn't really be the answer.15:21
srwilkersthere's a few items listed under the documentation topic -- v1k0d3n portdirect, floors yours15:21
srwilkers#topic Documentation15:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Documentation (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)"15:21
v1k0d3nportdirect: you could just reach back out to the community to see if someone could take over the ps and document some things for you.15:21
portdirectv1k0d3n: take it away :)15:21
v1k0d3nthis is a great thing for a lead to do...and then that could be a way to engage the community better, and share work.15:22
portdirectv1k0d3n: a follow on ps would be great15:22
portdirectthough not opposed to anyone adding docs to it :)15:22
v1k0d3nok, so to these points...i think we (collectively) could open opportunities for new contributors, and also be a bit more welcoming by asking for help with docs.15:23
portdirectv1k0d3n: would be  great place for you to get involved again15:23
v1k0d3nit would be nice to follow _almost_ a pair programming model where a lead contributes a large ps, and then works with a community member for providing docs.15:23
portdirectas we've missed having you push work :)15:23
v1k0d3ni'm somewhat back :)15:23
v1k0d3nand as srwilkers knows...our group is starting to get more engaged.15:24
srwilkersim open to getting new contributors working on the docs - it'd be a great place to get started.15:24
v1k0d3nwell, and if we have folks like portdirect srwilkers or others work with new contributors...people will feel like they're part of it.15:25
v1k0d3nand i think we'd gain the momentum we want/need.15:26
v1k0d3nalong with solving some of the missing docs issues.15:26
v1k0d3nso srwilkers can you come up with a list of documentation gaps?15:26
v1k0d3ni can have our folks work with you to help fill in some of those...15:26
srwilkersi think it'd be great for people identifying them to submit bugs about the shortcomings.  unfortunately its the feedback from those who can see something missing or that isnt clear that really helps shed light on what we need15:27
v1k0d3nbut more communication on IRC would be good too. blueprints would be good. in fact moving to storyboard would help a lot...so some load would be distributed more with the community.15:27
v1k0d3ni want it to _feel_ like a community project...not just coming from one source.15:27
portdirectv1k0d3n: could you make a list of the docs gaps and get your team on it? would be a great way to change the fear you have15:28
v1k0d3ni don't have time portdirect15:28
v1k0d3nsorry15:28
portdirect:( I fear we are all in the same boat then15:29
v1k0d3nplus, if i remember correctly...i thought were were supposed to accept ps with documentation.15:29
v1k0d3nso this just executes on that plan15:29
v1k0d3nand still leaves the hard parts to good devs like yourself. and pairs you up with someone who could learn from you from the community.15:29
v1k0d3nif it's not a good idea...i'm fine with dropping it. i just think i'm seeing a bit more 3D coming to a new company, and hearing the questions directly from non-OSH devs.15:30
mattmceuenThere's already documentation in the PS.  I think there's a good opportunity for follow-on documentation that describes overall design philosophy.15:30
v1k0d3ni gotta run to a meeting. srwilkers let me know what your thoughts are.15:30
srwilkerscheers v1k0d3n -- grab coffee on the way15:31
v1k0d3nso a one liner in the docs is enough for libvirt moving to a new chart?15:31
v1k0d3nhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/493738/5/doc/source/install/developer/all-in-one.rst15:31
v1k0d3nok...i bow out then :)15:31
srwilkerslet's move on15:32
srwilkers#topic Images15:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Images (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)"15:32
srwilkersportdirect: floors yours15:32
portdirectlol15:32
portdirect2 sec15:32
portdirectthink a copy/paste from the etherpad is relivant here:15:33
portdirectThe kolla 3.0.3 images have done us pretty well - though have shortcomings:15:33
portdirect many severe issues are in the docker.io pushed images - and kolla will not update them.15:33
portdirect- the lack of httpd/uwsgi in the containers prior to the 5.0.x series makes forward looking dev hard - and also is limiting when wanting to use internal tls (unless we go down the sidecar container route - yuk)15:33
portdirect  - This also make graceful handover of services on rolling upgrades a bit more janky than it has to be - apache is much better than eventlet here.15:33
portdirect  As a result would making and pushing new set of images make sense? we used to use the stackenetes images - as they encountered similar issues - and I'm thinking it may be time to do the same so that we can have a set of similary non-production images to use for dev and demo purposes.I15:34
srwilkersive been back and forth on this one15:34
srwilkersbut the more we've used the kolla images, the more issues we've found with them15:35
jayahnnew set of images, could you be more specific?15:35
portdirectI'm thinking of a set of images, built from kolla-build 5.0.0 for ubuntu source15:35
portdirectthat would contain all the current fixes to openstack that are not in the images kolla pushed to dockerhub15:36
portdirectand also have apache/uwsgi for apis15:36
jayahnah.. i got that.15:37
portdirectin addtion to the reasons above - one of the main advantages of moving to a kolla-build 5.x derived image is fixed uid/gid for service users15:37
portdirectwhich is a super big win for security15:37
lamt++15:38
srwilkersi assume these'll get built and live in quay, and those become our reference?15:38
jayahni am totally okay with building a set of images from kolla-build, not using docker.io one.15:38
portdirectsrwilkers: thats what I think wuld be appropriate15:39
portdirectwe could include the refs to making them in gh - so they were totally reproduceable15:39
lrensingi'm in support of that, build new and host on quay15:39
portdirectbut host and donate them to the community15:40
lrensingyes15:40
portdirectnice, cheers lrensing15:40
srwilkersokay, lets give it a go and try it out15:40
jayahnif i understand correctly (just for confirmaiton on my understanding)15:40
* portdirect awats input15:40
srwilkersits something ive been thinking about as we've found other services we need to build images for15:41
jayahnwe start building a set of openstack images with kolla-build tool 5.0.015:41
jayahnhost those images in quay15:41
jayahnuse that image as reference in openstack-helm project.15:41
jayahnam i getting right?15:41
portdirectyes15:41
portdirectI can host the images while a WIP - and then once things move towards mergable push to quay15:42
srwilkersseems we have consensus for the most part?15:42
portdirectsrwilkers, lrensing, jayahn?15:43
srwilkersportdirect: yeah, sounds good15:43
jayahnyes. just one quick question. who will be responsible for making sure we are building good ones? :)15:43
* portdirect looks other way15:43
jayahnwill we be putting some minial check routin on image buidling process?15:43
portdirectthe gate in osh15:44
portdirectbut to confirm - these are *NOT* ment to be production images15:44
jayahnyeap. i got that. :)15:44
jayahni can let you or stacey to talk with Wil, to get some basic bats test we are using internally to check images from kolla-build.15:45
portdirectjayahn: that would be awesome15:45
jayahnalthough we are not using 5.0.0...15:45
jayahn:)15:45
srwilkerslrensing, lamt:  you on board?15:45
lrensingi am in support of this15:46
srwilkersawesome15:46
srwilkerslet's go ahead and move on then15:46
srwilkers#topic neutron decomposition15:46
*** openstack changes topic to "neutron decomposition (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)"15:47
srwilkersthink this was you jayahn :)15:47
srwilkersfloors yours15:47
jayahnah. nothing special.15:47
jayahnjust want to check "what urgency do you guys have in mind to make it merge". :)15:47
portdirectok - s one bit of fb i have is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/481225/15:47
portdirectI'm really not comfortable with the logic being inserted into the configmaps15:48
jayahni saw new review on the neutron decomposition ps, which i have to make siri to think more.15:48
jayahnyeah. about that.15:48
jayahni will have internal discussion tomorrow about that, and will back with our newer idea.15:49
portdirectnice - cheers jayahn15:49
portdirectthe decomposotion model is now in all openstack charts15:49
portdirectI'm fine with other knobs being added15:49
jayahnjust, FYI, we are kind of urgent to build an ci pipeline around SONA integration.15:49
lamtsrwilkers : yes, sorry was distracted by other convo15:49
portdirectbut am worred that if we go to far then the templates will become a mess15:49
portdirectand my gut says a 'drop-in' replacement would be better15:50
portdirectthan adding a lot of logic to the current template15:50
jayahnso wanted to make it work from upstream, but will get you input and will think more about that.. after all, it is about making it better and simple to use.15:50
portdirect+2 cheers jayahn15:50
srwilkersawesome15:52
srwilkersanything else here?15:52
srwilkers#topic open discussion15:54
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)"15:54
srwilkerswe've got a few minutes left.  any other items anyone wants to chat about?15:54
* portdirect has this terrible pain in all the diodes down his left side15:54
srwilkersalright, ill go ahead and close it out.  see you all in the channel15:55
srwilkers#endmeeting15:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:55
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 15 15:55:35 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:55
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2017/openstack_helm.2017-08-15-15.00.html15:55
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2017/openstack_helm.2017-08-15-15.00.txt15:55
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2017/openstack_helm.2017-08-15-15.00.log.html15:55
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