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| mattmceuen | #startmeeting openstack-helm | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 13 15:00:13 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mattmceuen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_helm' | 15:00 |
| mattmceuen | #topic rollcall | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:00 | |
| d|k | o/ | 15:00 |
| mattmceuen | hello everyboty | 15:00 |
| mattmceuen | everybody rather | 15:00 |
| d|k | <- not a bot, honest. | 15:00 |
| mattmceuen | off to a great start here spelling-wise | 15:00 |
| mattmceuen | I'm not a bot, a bot could spell :) | 15:00 |
| portdirect | *smelling | 15:00 |
| srwilkers | o/ | 15:01 |
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| roman_g | o/ | 15:01 |
| mattmceuen | Here's our agenda for today, please add in anything addn'l you'd like to discuss https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-helm-meeting-2018-02-13 | 15:01 |
| mattmceuen | #topic Office Hours reminder | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Office Hours reminder (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:02 | |
| mattmceuen | Just a quick reminder -- we just finished a weekly office hour session, and we have one more in seven hours :) | 15:02 |
| mattmceuen | We currently have three per week and they're on our team wiki. Thanks to everyone who helps facilitate (and who asks questions) | 15:03 |
| mattmceuen | do we have jayahn today by chance? | 15:03 |
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| mattmceuen | He was going to try to find an additional time that worked for SK folks, I'll circle back w/ him later | 15:04 |
| mattmceuen | #topic Mascot voting results | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mascot voting results (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:05 | |
| mattmceuen | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-helm-mascot | 15:05 |
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| mattmceuen | I must say that the Ratel made quite a showing! | 15:05 |
| mattmceuen | It tied "everything else put together" | 15:05 |
| portdirect | http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/140/324/honey-badger-it-just-takes-what-it-wants-t-shirts_design.png | 15:06 |
| mattmceuen | We'd like to maintain consensus on top of voting supremecy if possible. So: speak now or forever hold your peace with the Ratel as our Mascot? | 15:07 |
| * mattmceuen voted for Sea Otter, but is happy to adopt the inspirational Ratel | 15:07 | |
| srwilkers | inspirational indeed | 15:08 |
| srwilkers | im inspired to learn to run backwards too | 15:09 |
| mattmceuen | Since I believe the majority of folks who voted for alternative candidates are not present, let us make the Ratel our Mascot-Elect, and revisit one final time to affirm consensus. | 15:09 |
| mattmceuen | Any more thoughts on this topic | 15:10 |
| mattmceuen | #topic Values YAML ordering | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Values YAML ordering (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:10 | |
| mattmceuen | I know we've discussed this in various forums with various folks, but I wanted to discuss here before moving on it | 15:11 |
| mattmceuen | Steve has a PS out: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/542279/ | 15:11 |
| portdirect | I like this, but i think each chart should be hit seperately | 15:12 |
| mattmceuen | The idea is that we'd like to have a standard ordering to our values YAMLs across charts, and the most objective way to to this is is simply to alphabetize all the keys | 15:12 |
| portdirect | and the sort should aslo go through all the keys, not just top level | 15:12 |
| portdirect | *also | 15:12 |
| srwilkers | portdirect: that's sane | 15:12 |
| mattmceuen | Is there a tool that would do this for us (or would it be easier to make a tool vs by hand)? | 15:13 |
| portdirect | For this to have value, can we also add this to the linting gate | 15:13 |
| srwilkers | mattmceuen: depends on whatever text editor youre using | 15:13 |
| srwilkers | portdirect: ++ | 15:13 |
| mattmceuen | Yeah, and if it can be linted it can be printed! | 15:13 |
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| portdirect | atom has a load of plugins, though they all strip comments | 15:13 |
| portdirect | which we should keep | 15:13 |
| portdirect | so doing this the 1st time will be labourious | 15:14 |
| portdirect | but a great bit of low hanging fruit for a new contrib to get under there belt | 15:14 |
| mattmceuen | So I am not convinced on this approach. I think we are sacrificing readability for consistency. | 15:14 |
| portdirect | *their | 15:14 |
| mattmceuen | I have heard a lot from portdirect and srwilkers on this and I'm happy to bow to team concensus | 15:15 |
| portdirect | fair, though in the interests of democracy, we are but two voices. | 15:15 |
| mattmceuen | Can you guys please pitch the benefits and why it's worth the readability drop? | 15:15 |
| d|k | sort of a strawman reaction: i think alphabetical organization makes some sense (and a standard ordering makes a TON of sense), but might it on the other hand be useful to have the things users might be most likely to edit at the top? | 15:15 |
| alanmeadows | Also, are there other simple consistencies beyond this we’d like to enforce at the same time? | 15:15 |
| srwilkers | thats a fair point, but that quickly becomes subjective djk | 15:16 |
| d|k | strooth | 15:16 |
| alanmeadows | Even outside of values | 15:16 |
| portdirect | alanmeadows: yes | 15:16 |
| portdirect | but this is just one step on the road to helm8 ;) | 15:16 |
| srwilkers | and id like to have something consistent we can easily enforce, else we'll start seeing drift between the charts i think | 15:16 |
| portdirect | its already happened | 15:16 |
| portdirect | and we have a large number of charts, and contribs now | 15:17 |
| srwilkers | knowing where to find something chart to chart makes working with them easier, instead of having to run find on whatever key youre looking for between charts | 15:17 |
| d|k | i guess my point could be better addressed by just ensuring that values/charts are well-commented. | 15:17 |
| roman_g | Attributes are not in alphabetic order, for ex. Here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/542279/7/calico/values.yaml | 15:17 |
| portdirect | that without some formal schema we will start to drown in minor deltas | 15:17 |
| roman_g | line 70: CALICO_NETWORKING_BACKEND and line 72 ETCD_CA_CERT_FILE and line 78 CALICO_DISABLE_FILE_LOGGING | 15:18 |
| srwilkers | roman_g: right. we're proposing to order them alphabetically | 15:18 |
| mattmceuen | Revisiting the idea of "top level keys alphabetized" vs "all keys alphabetized" -- do we 90% of what you're after srwilkers with just the top level, while preserving most of the readability? | 15:18 |
| srwilkers | i think we need to order everything, as portdirect mentioned | 15:19 |
| mattmceuen | Yep that was not my question though | 15:19 |
| mattmceuen | You'd brought up the problem of having to Ctrl+F as a pain point -- wondering whether you'd have to Ctrl+F substantially less if we just organized the top level? | 15:20 |
| srwilkers | we'd have to ctrl+f less if everything was ordered, id say | 15:21 |
| srwilkers | top keys and subkeys | 15:21 |
| portdirect | some of our charts have 15K lines in the values | 15:21 |
| mattmceuen | Let's do this please -- can we have something concrete to look at here -- maybe do the full depth alpha on your PS, and then let's look at it next team meeting? | 15:21 |
| roman_g | I would make it all alphabetical in distro, but not would enforce it for users. | 15:22 |
| mattmceuen | (^srwilkers) | 15:22 |
| srwilkers | mattmceuen: sure | 15:22 |
| roman_g | http://yamllint.readthedocs.io/en/latest/rules.html#module-yamllint.rules.key_ordering yawl alphabetical linter | 15:22 |
| roman_g | *yaml | 15:22 |
| srwilkers | ill hit the prometheus chart as an example | 15:22 |
| mattmceuen | oo good find roman_g | 15:22 |
| mattmceuen | thanks srwilkers | 15:23 |
| mattmceuen | #action Revisit YAML value ordering next time with prometheus as example | 15:23 |
| alanmeadows | roman_g: it has to be enforced on commit | 15:23 |
| alanmeadows | or there is no point to the refactoring now | 15:23 |
| roman_g | alanmeadows, I agree, it must be done on commit. But let's not enforce alphabetical order for users. | 15:24 |
| srwilkers | roman_g: not sure i follow | 15:24 |
| alanmeadows | in fact I see a number of things from yamllint should be implemented | 15:24 |
| mattmceuen | by users do you mean e.g. overrides roman_g? | 15:24 |
| roman_g | yes. | 15:25 |
| roman_g | Someone takes stock yaml, and modifies it. It should be applied w/o any problems, without warnings about non-alphabetical order of keys | 15:25 |
| mattmceuen | agree - overrides are often going to be pets, and when not, should be up to the user to enforce what they want | 15:26 |
| srwilkers | roman_g: that's outside the scope of osh -- whatever a user applies as overrides get's validated by helm, not the charts themselves | 15:26 |
| mattmceuen | all linting should be done at commit time, not runtime | 15:26 |
| mattmceuen | Alright - anything else before we move on? | 15:27 |
| mattmceuen | #topic Ceph changes merged | 15:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ceph changes merged (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:27 | |
| * mattmceuen woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!! | 15:27 | |
| d|k | what. he. said. | 15:28 |
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| portdirect | next step is gonna be to split the chart out | 15:28 |
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| portdirect | and see how that effects upgrades | 15:28 |
| mattmceuen | Big thanks to portdirect for getting this PS past the finish line, and to all the folks whose work this builds on (d|k renis ganesh and anyone else I missed) | 15:29 |
| d|k | portdirect: is there a plan for supporting device naming by [i]scsi IDs, or should we just use the fact that there are symlinks for those? | 15:29 |
| d|k | portdirect: also, you REWL for dragging this thing to the finish. | 15:29 |
| portdirect | d|k: yes to scsi | 15:30 |
| d|k | kewl | 15:31 |
| alanmeadows | also what about scrubbing, i.e. clean redeploy | 15:31 |
| portdirect | can you add your awesome work in here? | 15:31 |
| gmmaha | portdirect: split the chart out meaning, just the ceph piece or helm-toolkit also goes along i presume? | 15:31 |
| alanmeadows | a script is a decent half measure, but long-term? | 15:31 |
| portdirect | alanmeadows: do we want to support that? | 15:31 |
| alanmeadows | at the very least is our script a tools/ helper? | 15:32 |
| portdirect | i suspect we do, but want consensus before people say portdirect you killed my cat pic collection. | 15:32 |
| d|k | i'd be happy to put up a change with my little physical-to-logical mapping thing and then that can be cleaned up/improved | 15:32 |
| portdirect | d|k: sounds great | 15:32 |
| alanmeadows | It shouldn't be super easy to tap into but it should be there, ephemeral clouds are the wave of the future | 15:33 |
| portdirect | alanmeadows: I could add a oldschool "REALLY_ZAP_OSDS" flag? | 15:33 |
| alanmeadows | I think thats fine, I think it may also go along with maybe what we would do for PVCs on statefulsets | 15:33 |
| portdirect | roger, wfm | 15:33 |
| alanmeadows | REALLY_OBLITERATE_ALL_MY_DATA_ON_PURGE | 15:33 |
| portdirect | gmmaha: the plan is to try splitting the mons, osds, and clients into seperate charts | 15:34 |
| portdirect | to allow them to be upgraded in sequence | 15:34 |
| gmmaha | portdirect: aaah.. that sounds like fun.. feel free to rope me in on the work | 15:35 |
| portdirect | gmmaha: will do - the split will be easy, the validation less so :) | 15:36 |
| mattmceuen | you have the best definition of the word "fun" gmmaha :-D | 15:36 |
| gmmaha | portdirect: true dat... (now how all can we make this fail) | 15:36 |
| gmmaha | mattmceuen: :D | 15:36 |
| mattmceuen | that is the real fun part... torture the thing | 15:36 |
| mattmceuen | ok - next topic | 15:37 |
| gmmaha | portdirect: is this split planned afgter we move it to ceph-helm or prior? | 15:37 |
| gmmaha | sorry mattmceuen | 15:37 |
| mattmceuen | d'oh | 15:37 |
| gmmaha | slow typer here | 15:37 |
| mattmceuen | Nope my bad go for it | 15:37 |
| portdirect | gmmaha: the last step before moving | 15:37 |
| portdirect | the day is approaching fast now | 15:37 |
| gmmaha | portdirect: cool. guess it's time to cue t | 15:38 |
| gmmaha | the music and get coffee | 15:38 |
| gmmaha | thanks portdirect mattmceuen :) | 15:38 |
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| mattmceuen | thanks gmmaha! | 15:38 |
| mattmceuen | #topic Let's get the PS in good shape! | 15:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Let's get the PS in good shape! (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:39 | |
| mattmceuen | uno momento - copy paste fail | 15:39 |
| mattmceuen | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/538419/ - Add template for Fluent logging index - 1 week | 15:39 |
| mattmceuen | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/537800/ - Change the check method for the ceph ods version - 2 week | 15:39 |
| mattmceuen | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/539477/ - Change osd pool default size set 1 - 1 week | 15:39 |
| mattmceuen | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/539019/ - Managing generic loopback devices for testing | 15:39 |
| mattmceuen | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/528488/ - LMA documentation | 15:39 |
| mattmceuen | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/540938/ - Deep merge functionality for Helm-Toolkit | 15:39 |
| mattmceuen | Some of these have been languishing as we've been busy with some big efforts | 15:40 |
| mattmceuen | But let's try to get some solid feedback and/or merges on these guys in the next 2 days please | 15:40 |
| mattmceuen | also https://review.openstack.org/#/c/535699/ - Use ceph-admin-keyring to execute storage_init script in Cinder. | 15:41 |
| portdirect | would also be awesome to expand the active reviewers | 15:41 |
| srwilkers | portdirect: ++ | 15:41 |
| mattmceuen | +1 | 15:41 |
| portdirect | asl currently 60% is done by three people: http://stackalytics.com/?module=openstack-helm | 15:41 |
| mattmceuen | Does anyone have any suggestions for how we can keep reviews moving? Lessons learned from other projects? | 15:42 |
| mattmceuen | "one simple trick"? | 15:42 |
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| portdirect | pointing out that a +/-1 is worth as much as a +/-2 is a big part of it i think | 15:43 |
| srwilkers | it'd be great to see more active reviewers over the next cycle so we can revisit core team makeup and membership | 15:43 |
| portdirect | we really need more cores | 15:43 |
| srwilkers | ^ | 15:43 |
| mattmceuen | yep | 15:43 |
| portdirect | but to get to that point people need to put the work in. | 15:43 |
| mattmceuen | +/-2s are a lot easier for cores to give once other team members have given strong reviews and +/-1s -- agree portdirect | 15:44 |
| portdirect | its how I was brought up in OSS | 15:45 |
| portdirect | get stuck in :D | 15:45 |
| srwilkers | :p | 15:45 |
| mattmceuen | well you did alright :) | 15:45 |
| portdirect | (and grow thick, loos skin) | 15:45 |
| portdirect | ^^ Like a certain mascot | 15:45 |
| mattmceuen | that's deep, man, deep | 15:46 |
| mattmceuen | Alrighty | 15:46 |
| mattmceuen | #topic Roundtable | 15:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roundtable (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:46 | |
| mattmceuen | Any topics you all would like to discuss next time that might need some prep work, or things to bring up today? | 15:47 |
| srwilkers | im good i think | 15:47 |
| mattmceuen | #action The hardy Ratel is Mascot-Elect | 15:47 |
| mattmceuen | btw I learned it's pronounced RAY-tel | 15:48 |
| mattmceuen | that's all I got | 15:48 |
| mattmceuen | good meet peeps -- thanks for all your hard work. | 15:48 |
| srwilkers | funny, i thought it was pronounced "honey badger" | 15:48 |
| mattmceuen | UHHHHWWHAAAAAT???? | 15:48 |
| mattmceuen | #endmeeting | 15:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 13 15:49:04 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2018/openstack_helm.2018-02-13-15.00.html | 15:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2018/openstack_helm.2018-02-13-15.00.txt | 15:49 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2018/openstack_helm.2018-02-13-15.00.log.html | 15:49 |
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