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| mattmceuen | #startmeeting openstack-helm | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 13 15:00:53 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mattmceuen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_helm' | 15:00 |
| mattmceuen | #topic rollcall | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:01 | |
| jayahn | o/ | 15:01 |
| pcarver | hi | 15:01 |
| seungkyua | hi | 15:01 |
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| jayahn | seungkyua: you made it. :) | 15:01 |
| mattmceuen | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-helm-ptg-rocky | 15:01 |
| mattmceuen | That's not the agenda | 15:01 |
| portdirect | o/ | 15:02 |
| seungkyua | yes. ha | 15:02 |
| mattmceuen | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-helm-meeting-2018-03-13 | 15:02 |
| mattmceuen | This is the agenda :) | 15:02 |
| mattmceuen | thanks for joining guys! | 15:02 |
| jayahn | since we have "review PTG highlights" on the agenda, the first link can also be agenda | 15:02 |
| mattmceuen | Feel free to add anything to the agenda | 15:02 |
| jayahn | lol | 15:02 |
| mattmceuen | good save jayahn :D | 15:02 |
| mattmceuen | I am just back from vacation and trying to catch up / get in the swing of things so please bear with me | 15:03 |
| mattmceuen | #topic PTG Highlights | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG Highlights (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:03 | |
| mattmceuen | A big thanks to everyone who participated in the PTG | 15:03 |
| jayahn | fighting with blizzard | 15:04 |
| mattmceuen | We had some really valuable discussion, and was good to meet some more of the team face to face too | 15:04 |
| mattmceuen | aaaaaaaaand blizzard. that was fun! :) | 15:04 |
| mattmceuen | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-helm-ptg-rocky | 15:04 |
| mattmceuen | ^ here are our notes from the sessions | 15:04 |
| mattmceuen | There is much in there that we will be driving over the next 6 months and the rocky cycle | 15:04 |
| mattmceuen | Please everyone take a look at your leasure and inwardly digest. For folks who attended it will be a good refresher and for folks who did not a good learning | 15:05 |
| mattmceuen | For now, I want to just touch on a small group of takeaways to make sure they're communicated well with the team | 15:05 |
| mattmceuen | Please interrupt me if you'd like to briefly discuss; in depth discussion should probably become agenda items of their own. | 15:06 |
| jayahn | sure thing | 15:06 |
| mattmceuen | First: we refined our general versioning approach. The general direction is documented in the etherpad. | 15:06 |
| jayahn | squre sugar presentation was great :) | 15:07 |
| mattmceuen | We hope to get our 1.x gated version support all the way to master (non-voting). We will not branch OSH to 2.0 till we need to, likely for e.g. kubernetes upgrades (not OpenStack upgrades unless we find a real reason) | 15:07 |
| mattmceuen | We came up with a list of criteria for OSH v.1.0. I will author a spec for this and socialize it with y'all for feedback. | 15:08 |
| mattmceuen | Destructive testing: we would liek to add cookiemonster testing as a 3rd party gate, and would also like to explore powerfulseal | 15:09 |
| mattmceuen | Docs: we need ops and troubleshooting guide that describes how to handle the sharper edges of OSH ops | 15:09 |
| mattmceuen | Docs: we need sane defaults for the LMA stack, or a well-documented way to inject operator-specific things (I added an agenda item for this one) | 15:09 |
| mattmceuen | Docs: Helm-Toolkit and chart authoring should be documented | 15:10 |
| mattmceuen | Docs: all our executable documentation should be gated, following the pattern established already | 15:10 |
| mattmceuen | (notice the trend? we have a lot of documentation needs! that's not the full list either - would love folks to volunteer for these) | 15:10 |
| mattmceuen | Storyboard: we want to follow the community goal for this assuming it's established, and will plan to follow the critical mass of folks migrating to storyboard rather than blazing the trail | 15:11 |
| jayahn | one after-feedback: tagging with major openstack version caused some confusion with few people when I explain to team. we might want to document that tagging policy well. | 15:12 |
| mattmceuen | +1 | 15:12 |
| mattmceuen | Mailing List: I will begin leveraging it to call out any big items from the team meetings that should be mailed out (and then potentially discussed). Anyone else can feel free to do the same of course, not exclusively me :) | 15:12 |
| jayahn | we will ! | 15:13 |
| mattmceuen | Mailing list: will be leveraged in situations where the discussion participants prefer it, likewise with IRC. There is no wrong way to start or continue a conversation, and different folks prefer different means - we will try to meet in the middle and all be flexible. | 15:14 |
| jayahn | who is blue one on etherpad? Roy? hi roy :) | 15:15 |
| jayahn | sorry matt, i did not mean any interruption. | 15:15 |
| mattmceuen | nope this one's just long :-D | 15:16 |
| mattmceuen | Reviewers: we need more reviewers and more core reviewers. We need more substantive reviews given the volume of patchsets that are coming through, not just +1's w/o comments. We will be watching for folks to prove their value as reviewers over time with an eager eye toward adding cores, and truing up our current core list to accurately reflect reality. | 15:16 |
| srwilkers | o/ | 15:17 |
| jayahn | +1 | 15:17 |
| jayahn | you are great summarizer... matt. | 15:17 |
| mattmceuen | Cores should probably also in general be announcing the direction for the project ,with input from the entire team of course. W.r.t. the item above about announcing big outcomes from our meetings. This wasn't something we discussed in the PTG but is something I'm connecting the dots on as I type. We can discuss more later if desired. | 15:18 |
| mattmceuen | YAML ordering: Jay & team will author a spec for this, defining an ordering for top-level values keys, and having an alphabetical ordering under that | 15:19 |
| mattmceuen | whew | 15:19 |
| mattmceuen | That's not the full list, not even all the big hitters, but are some of the important bits to make sure we're all clear on. Please see the etherpad for more. | 15:19 |
| mattmceuen | Any discussion / comments? | 15:19 |
| portdirect | we should mention the upgrade gate | 15:20 |
| portdirect | as its kinda the big-hitter for any 1.0.x release | 15:20 |
| mattmceuen | also please add in anything I missed you'd like to communicate -- just like ^ portdirect thanks :) | 15:20 |
| srwilkers | sorry, reading scrollback as i lost track of time | 15:20 |
| portdirect | story of your life srwilkers ? | 15:21 |
| srwilkers | portdirect: so it seems | 15:21 |
| mattmceuen | Yep we need to gate our upgrades as part of 1.0, and "supporting an OS version" is synonymous with "a gated upgrade path" | 15:21 |
| portdirect | ++ | 15:21 |
| portdirect | mattmceuen: "the summarizer" :D | 15:21 |
| mattmceuen | anything else? | 15:21 |
| mattmceuen | my fingers are so tired | 15:21 |
| jayahn | you need AI to write down for you. | 15:22 |
| mattmceuen | one more thing on our list of features needed :D | 15:22 |
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| mattmceuen | #topic YAML Values Ordering | 15:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "YAML Values Ordering (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:24 | |
| mattmceuen | Speak of the devil - there's already a spec in progress! https://review.openstack.org/#/c/552485/ | 15:24 |
| mattmceuen | (did I mention I'm still catching up :) ) | 15:24 |
| jayahn | This is just starting, pls put your opinion on the reviews, and let's get dicussion going | 15:24 |
| mattmceuen | that's outstanding | 15:24 |
| mattmceuen | yes let's please get eyes on this. | 15:24 |
| jayahn | I was yelling this morning to put this spec on line. :) | 15:24 |
| mattmceuen | haha just in time! | 15:25 |
| portdirect | is powerds0111 here? | 15:25 |
| portdirect | looks like a great start :) | 15:25 |
| jayahn | hm.. good question. | 15:25 |
| mattmceuen | that was also something we brought up at the PTG - potentially moving the time of the meeting to something that works better for the majority of team members | 15:26 |
| jayahn | he was 7am armada weekly this morning (daylight saving mistake), probably sleeping. | 15:26 |
| mattmceuen | ah daylight savings time, america's gift to the world | 15:27 |
| mattmceuen | don't worry, we don't like it either | 15:27 |
| mattmceuen | (speaking for all americans) | 15:27 |
| mattmceuen | #topic [openstack-dev] [release] Relaxed rules for cycle-trailing projects | 15:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "[openstack-dev] [release] Relaxed rules for cycle-trailing projects (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:27 | |
| srwilkers | can confirm: hate DST | 15:28 |
| mattmceuen | jayahn I have not read this one yet, can you please give us the gist | 15:28 |
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| jayahn | we just found this with openstack-helm filter on mailing list. | 15:29 |
| jayahn | I think Roy(?) seems knows better | 15:29 |
| jayahn | long stroy short, it was after-two-week" requirements for any packaging/deployment project to be included in coordinated release | 15:30 |
| jayahn | now they relaxed that to any time in 3 month. | 15:30 |
| jayahn | according to this specific mail from Thierry Carrez | 15:30 |
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| jayahn | just FYI | 15:31 |
| srwilkers | the tl;dr being that we could still be considered part of the Queens release if we release before the end of rc2 this cycle i think? | 15:31 |
| jayahn | yeap | 15:31 |
| jayahn | exactly | 15:31 |
| mattmceuen | We are technically release-independent, this appears to be part of the confusion. | 15:32 |
| srwilkers | rc2 might be unrelated, seems that's the cutoff for any deliverables that arent packaging | 15:32 |
| portdirect | ^^ | 15:32 |
| portdirect | We are release independent | 15:32 |
| mattmceuen | The idea is that we are starting with Newton, and working our way to Master as quickly as is feasible :) | 15:32 |
| jayahn | yeap. that was our goal | 15:32 |
| jayahn | we are release independent. but it seems like there is rule to be included in so called "coordinated openstack release" | 15:33 |
| jayahn | anyhow, i think we can go to the next one | 15:34 |
| mattmceuen | agree. I think our discussion at the PTG helped crystallize in our own minds how the OSH versioning/releasing should work, and we'll just need to get that documented to clear up any confusion for others | 15:34 |
| mattmceuen | #topic LMA stack defaults | 15:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "LMA stack defaults (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:35 | |
| mattmceuen | srwilkers we missed you~ | 15:35 |
| mattmceuen | So it was brought up that we should have one or both of a couple things w.r.t. LMA in OSH | 15:35 |
| srwilkers | i was there in spirit | 15:35 |
| srwilkers | i was that snow ruining everyones day | 15:35 |
| mattmceuen | there was plenty of irish spirit there, I think I saw you | 15:36 |
| mattmceuen | First: a meaningful out-of-box configuration for all the LMA components; usable dashboards that operators can use without knowing too much about LMA configuration | 15:36 |
| mattmceuen | Second: a documented way for operators to inject their configurations in | 15:37 |
| mattmceuen | What are your thoughts srwilkers on these, current state & future state? | 15:37 |
| * mattmceuen has never configured the lma stack except by pushing some buttons | 15:37 | |
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| srwilkers | First point -- yes, that'd be great. I think we'll find more meaningful out of box configurations as more end users start kicking the tires and seeing what makes sense | 15:38 |
| portdirect | I think this ties in with the rework of the gate - to follow the same format as other osh components (ie kill armansible) | 15:38 |
| srwilkers | yep | 15:38 |
| mattmceuen | +1 and also +1 for armansible | 15:39 |
| jayahn | pls explain me armansible | 15:39 |
| jayahn | ㅠ. ㅠ | 15:39 |
| mattmceuen | armada + ansible :) clever! | 15:40 |
| pcarver | sorry to interrupt, but what is LMA? | 15:40 |
| jayahn | logging, monitoring, alarm | 15:40 |
| mattmceuen | no interruption, o/ pcarver! | 15:40 |
| mattmceuen | anything else on this topic before we move onwards? | 15:41 |
| srwilkers | current state for first point is that it's mostly followed upstream references for the services charted out, but future state needs to be targeting more real things. examples that come to mind: multiline configured in fluentbit to successfully capture python stack traces, more targeteted log filtering perhaps | 15:41 |
| jayahn | +1 on that | 15:42 |
| srwilkers | second: there's a patchset in flight in osh that's a bit stale now that tries to outline some of the configuration entities in the charts, but would also benefit from some feedback with anyone with more ops experience than i have currently. particularly whether it makes sense to serve as a foundation to build on | 15:42 |
| srwilkers | as i think writing an ops guide for the LMA stuff would benefit from collective input, as opposed to just my own | 15:43 |
| mattmceuen | there's probably an 80/20 rule at play here -- 80% of the things that an OSH operator might want to tune could be tuned via 20% of the configuration, so if we document (e.g. gates) that 20% and point folks toward the projects' own documentation, that might be valuable? | 15:44 |
| mattmceuen | (maybe even 90/10) | 15:44 |
| srwilkers | yep. the patchset i have in flight makes a point of directing users to the projects' documentation for clarification on what the exposed configurations target | 15:45 |
| mattmceuen | I think a place to start in any case is to gate with the tunables that we most expect to be tweaked, and build from there | 15:45 |
| mattmceuen | perfect | 15:45 |
| srwilkers | yep | 15:45 |
| mattmceuen | cool beans | 15:46 |
| srwilkers | thats it from me | 15:46 |
| jayahn | i will put it in my todo list | 15:46 |
| mattmceuen | awesome, thanks for volunteering jayahn! | 15:46 |
| d|k | srwilkers: because i'm lazy, could you give a link to the patch you're talking about? | 15:46 |
| jayahn | more yelling for me. :) | 15:46 |
| jayahn | yeap, link would be great | 15:46 |
| srwilkers | i too am lazy d|k | 15:47 |
| srwilkers | but here you go | 15:47 |
| srwilkers | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/528488/ | 15:47 |
| d|k | SLOTHS UNITE! | 15:47 |
| d|k | thx! | 15:47 |
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| mattmceuen | HA | 15:48 |
| mattmceuen | #topic can we modify kolla-build | 15:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "can we modify kolla-build (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:48 | |
| mattmceuen | jayahn can you elaborate on that one? | 15:48 |
| jayahn | i might know the answer but | 15:48 |
| jayahn | since we are getting kolla image not from kolla, but from our own | 15:48 |
| jayahn | will it be possible to modify official kolla build? | 15:49 |
| jayahn | for instance, adding lbaas stuff on newton kolla. | 15:49 |
| jayahn | i remember portdirect said kolla did not want us to have our own version of kolla image. | 15:49 |
| jayahn | it is just question to clarify what we can do here. :) | 15:50 |
| mattmceuen | srwilkers portdirect what are your thoughts - anyone can surely propose a PS to kolla, so I guess it's a question of liklihood of acceptance :) | 15:50 |
| jayahn | since newton is end of life, we cannot propose ps to kolla. it is all done deal. | 15:51 |
| jayahn | otherwise, we will do ps on kolla side. | 15:51 |
| jayahn | for sure | 15:52 |
| mattmceuen | cool - if anyone has addn'l input on that it would be great, and we can continue in the chat room if so! | 15:52 |
| mattmceuen | #topic SKT work planning | 15:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SKT work planning (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:52 | |
| jayahn | that was our way of sharing | 15:53 |
| mattmceuen | jayahn shared some work his team at SKT as a group are planning to focus on this month -- https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-helm-meeting-2018-03-13 | 15:53 |
| jayahn | I will share at least once a month about our plan for the month. | 15:53 |
| jayahn | anyone can give us feedback on priority or suggest things to do | 15:53 |
| mattmceuen | thank you for sharing jayahn, that's very valuable and is probably something that we need to do more of overall | 15:53 |
| jayahn | or do question on the topic | 15:53 |
| jayahn | regard this as a sort of backlog for us. | 15:54 |
| jayahn | you can influence it. :) | 15:54 |
| mattmceuen | team, please take a look at what jayahn has in that backlog and discuss feedback in irc/mailing list/etc | 15:54 |
| mattmceuen | really appreciate you taking the initiative there | 15:54 |
| mattmceuen | this dovetails into another topic :) | 15:55 |
| mattmceuen | #topic specs for big changes | 15:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "specs for big changes (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:55 | |
| jayahn | this is just our quick opinion. | 15:55 |
| mattmceuen | Jay notes a couple of PS in the agenda that could have benefitted from discussion via a spec or otherwise first | 15:55 |
| mattmceuen | I agree | 15:55 |
| mattmceuen | Full disclosure: some of us got a fire lit under our butts with one of those | 15:56 |
| jayahn | understood. just say it then. :) | 15:56 |
| mattmceuen | :) | 15:57 |
| jayahn | we will support | 15:57 |
| mattmceuen | we'll strive for good communication as well | 15:57 |
| mattmceuen | #topic roundtable | 15:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roundtable (Meeting topic: openstack-helm)" | 15:57 | |
| ttx | re: rc2 above -- actually that would be before rocky-2 milestone | 15:57 |
| mattmceuen | sorry for rushing thru this, 2.5 mins left :) | 15:57 |
| ttx | the new wording says "3 months after the coordinated release" | 15:57 |
| ttx | so you'd have until May basically. The sooner the better though | 15:58 |
| jayahn | okay. :) | 15:58 |
| jayahn | thanks for clarification | 15:58 |
| ttx | np! | 15:58 |
| portdirect | ttx: we are going to remain release independent | 15:58 |
| portdirect | how does this impact that? | 15:58 |
| mattmceuen | Yep that is the part that's confusing me too | 15:58 |
| mattmceuen | can we continue the convo in #openstack-helm? I want to make sure we're on the same page but we're outta time! | 15:59 |
| mattmceuen | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 13 16:00:03 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2018/openstack_helm.2018-03-13-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| mattmceuen | thanks ttx | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2018/openstack_helm.2018-03-13-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_helm/2018/openstack_helm.2018-03-13-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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| ttx | portdirect: oh, if you are release-independent then you don't do per-cycle releases at all | 16:01 |
| ttx | so you don't do a "queens release" | 16:01 |
| * ttx jumps on the right channel | 16:01 | |
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