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| SergeyLukjanov | Hi everybody, Savanna meeting will start in a few minutes | 18:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| ErikB | Hi Everyone | 18:03 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 18:03 |
| ErikB | Just fired off a mail with a doc and a UI mock we can have a look at during the meeting. | 18:03 |
| SergeyLukjanov | are there everyone for savanna meeting? | 18:04 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ok, lets start the meeting | 18:05 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #startmeeting savanna | 18:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 16 18:05:16 2013 UTC. The chair is SergeyLukjanov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 18:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'savanna' | 18:05 |
| ErikB | seems mail is taking a while. Here are the 2 docs just posed to the wiki: https://wiki.openstack.org/w/images/0/00/Hadoop_Configuration_Flow_For_Mockup.pdf and https://wiki.openstack.org/w/images/9/99/Hadoop_cluster_configuration_mockup.pdf | 18:06 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | I think we have no agenda for the todays meeting | 18:07 |
| ErikB | Can we discuss the two docs just posted - concerning advanced confif? | 18:07 |
| ErikB | s/fif/fig | 18:07 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | we have a lot of discussions of plugin mechanism and Savanna's overall arch last week | 18:08 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ErikB, yes, sure | 18:08 |
| SergeyLukjanov | give us a moment to take a look on them | 18:08 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | for newcomers - here are the channel logs - http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-meeting-alt/%23openstack-meeting-alt.2013-05-16.log | 18:12 |
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| dmitryme | Erik, in your UI mocks. Does the Node Group section appears after user selects the file? | 18:12 |
| jspeidel | the advanced file is optional | 18:12 |
| jspeidel | either way it is populated from result of plugin.populate_node_groups | 18:13 |
| jspeidel | could be using default configuration | 18:13 |
| ruhe | it looks the same as what Dmitry sent about three hours ago? just with different layout :) | 18:14 |
| jmaron | kind of..yes ;) | 18:14 |
| ruhe | cool | 18:14 |
| ErikB | it was put together independently of what Dmitry did - so that is good that we are thinking the same | 18:15 |
| ruhe | right | 18:15 |
| rnirmal | sorry guys got in a little late and may have to leave early as well | 18:16 |
| jspeidel | keep in mind that we were not trying to design the UI, just provided the mockup for reasons of discussion | 18:17 |
| jmaron | in both cases, the selection of the template (standard or advanced) yields a view of the node groups | 18:17 |
| jspeidel | to better explain the flow | 18:17 |
| ruhe | in the Object model changes. there is new field "vm_requirements". is it intended to help user to select appropriate flavor? | 18:17 |
| jspeidel | yes | 18:17 |
| SergeyLukjanov | am I right that "vm_requirements" is the minimal requirements for vms in node group? | 18:17 |
| jspeidel | yes | 18:17 |
| rnirmal | we may be better of not looking at the UI first ;) | 18:17 |
| jspeidel | the associated flow doc describes how the ui uses vm_requirements | 18:18 |
| jmaron | node count, cardinality, memory etc | 18:18 |
| jspeidel | it will allow the UI to do some validation | 18:18 |
| rnirmal | +1 for the vm requirements part... makes for good validation | 18:19 |
| jspeidel | and only populate legal value | 18:19 |
| jspeidel | valus | 18:19 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | jspiedel, yep, I see it | 18:19 |
| rnirmal | so let me bring up my concern from earlier about the plugin choosing a vm to use for a role | 18:19 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | our main point is to use one cluster object in all plugin api calls | 18:20 |
| jmaron | in the current proposed scheme, the plugin simply provides guidance via the requirements. it's not choosing | 18:20 |
| jspeidel | SergeyLukjanov, agreed | 18:21 |
| jmaron | yes. we are following the same approach for advanced config | 18:21 |
| ErikB | The controller chooses placement of VM | 18:21 |
| rnirmal | ok that's good | 18:21 |
| rnirmal | also in the future it would be good to have discussions around how the interactions happen via the api rather than the UI | 18:22 |
| jspeidel | rnirmal, you main the REST API? | 18:22 |
| rnirmal | make the API simple enough and the UI will naturally flow in | 18:22 |
| SergeyLukjanov | "vm_requirements" looks good, I think that we should include such ability to specify minimal requirements for node groups | 18:22 |
| rnirmal | jspeidel: yes | 18:22 |
| jspeidel | yes, will need to discuss ramifications to REST API | 18:23 |
| jspeidel | but lets settle on SPI first | 18:23 |
| rnirmal | sure | 18:23 |
| jspeidel | between controller and plugin | 18:23 |
| jmaron | +1 | 18:23 |
| SergeyLukjanov | yes, we should discuss the SPI first | 18:24 |
| jspeidel | for the vm_requirements, we would need to have a defined set of properties that could be included | 18:24 |
| jspeidel | that both the plugin and controller would understand | 18:24 |
| jspeidel | for the UI to actually do any validation | 18:24 |
| jmaron | a minimal set of expected values. there could always be more for specific functions | 18:24 |
| jspeidel | otherwise it is still useful, but more of guidance to the user | 18:25 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jspeidel, all supported properties of flavor object plus cardinality | 18:25 |
| jspeidel | + default_count | 18:25 |
| rnirmal | what you'll have there looks good, just addition of vcpus would finish it up | 18:25 |
| jspeidel | good | 18:26 |
| rnirmal | not sure about the default_count | 18:26 |
| jspeidel | it would allow users to "clone" an existing cluster | 18:26 |
| rnirmal | so if the user doesn't specify a count for that node-group is the default_count used | 18:26 |
| jspeidel | is just used to pre-populate vm count | 18:27 |
| jmaron | exactly | 18:27 |
| jspeidel | can still be changed by user | 18:27 |
| ErikB | default_count is just what is recommended and can be changed by the user in the UI (it would be the default rendered in the UI) | 18:27 |
| jspeidel | it is just the initial value | 18:27 |
| dmitryme | mmm, why can't we just use existing 'count' field for that? | 18:27 |
| rnirmal | but what about from the API | 18:27 |
| jspeidel | let us look ... | 18:27 |
| rnirmal | you don't get that sort of an interaction from the rest api | 18:27 |
| rnirmal | I'd suggest not have the default_count for now | 18:27 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I think "default_count" is the very simple thing, lets discuss more important things for now | 18:28 |
| jspeidel | SergeyLukjanov, agreed | 18:28 |
| jmaron | and yes "count" may server the purpose | 18:28 |
| jmaron | serve | 18:28 |
| jspeidel | we can discuss later after spi is nailed down | 18:28 |
| SergeyLukjanov | are there any concerns in SPI? | 18:29 |
| SergeyLukjanov | any other* | 18:29 |
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| jspeidel | are you ok with the flow that we just posted with the mockup? | 18:30 |
| rnirmal | is anyone else working on a plugin other than ambari | 18:30 |
| jmaron | and the modified APIs? | 18:30 |
| jmaron | I had a thread on the list about the user_input object, but it a given input can reference it's source config object that should be more than sufficient | 18:30 |
| jmaron | its | 18:31 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jspeidel we published our new vision several ours ago and I think that we have the very similar vision | 18:31 |
| ErikB | rnirmal, not as far I know | 18:31 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | additionally, we have several concerns of some names of functions/approaches and etc. | 18:34 |
| jspeidel | jmaron, wouldn't populate_node_groups still drive this? | 18:34 |
| jspeidel | the plugin could use default values? | 18:34 |
| SergeyLukjanov | "convert" in our vision is very similar to yours "populate_node_groups" | 18:35 |
| SergeyLukjanov | but we want to rename it | 18:35 |
| jspeidel | ok, not too worried about naming | 18:35 |
| jspeidel | as long as we agree on functionality | 18:35 |
| SergeyLukjanov | yep ;) | 18:35 |
| jspeidel | and that we don't need both | 18:35 |
| jmaron | I'm not sure. populate_node_groups gets a cluster object that either references a provider template or a standard template. In the provider case, obviously it's the plugin's responsibility. But a standard cluster template could potentially understand the node groups defined in the standard template and pre-populate the node goups | 18:35 |
| jmaron | groups | 18:36 |
| jspeidel | and that it works for both standard/advanced configs | 18:36 |
| SergeyLukjanov | btw we want to not name file-based configuration as "advanced", because in our talks we name vms/hdfs placement as advanced cluster configuration | 18:36 |
| ruhe | standard flow doesn't need populate_node_groups. node groups are populated from the cluster template | 18:36 |
| jspeidel | plugin should always define node groups | 18:37 |
| jspeidel | will be very different between vendors | 18:37 |
| ruhe | templates will be plugin specific | 18:37 |
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| jspeidel | hmmm. ok, I guess that I am confused about templates | 18:38 |
| ruhe | *standard templates | 18:38 |
| jspeidel | I thought that they were just configuration not topology | 18:38 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and node template, for example, will define configs for the node group and plugin could override anything in "get_infra" function of the standard flow | 18:38 |
| jspeidel | why have two ways of exposing node groups | 18:38 |
| jspeidel | ? | 18:38 |
| ruhe | you mean get_infra and and populate_node_groups are the same? | 18:39 |
| jmaron | let's talk about a standard flow | 18:40 |
| ruhe | ok | 18:40 |
| jmaron | when a user selects the standard template in your mockup on the first screen | 18:40 |
| jspeidel | I am really confused about templates and how they relate to node groups | 18:40 |
| jspeidel | I thought that templates were just config n/v pairs | 18:41 |
| jmaron | is that template a template the plugin provided with a standardized set of node groups? | 18:41 |
| dmitryme | we are speaking about Savanna native templates, they will look similar for all the providers | 18:43 |
| dmitryme | and yes, previously we told that they will be key-value pairs | 18:43 |
| jmaron | and they will be pre-defined? created by users? | 18:43 |
| dmitryme | they will be created by users | 18:44 |
| jmaron | so they are a mechanism for defining node groups, correct? | 18:44 |
| SergeyLukjanov | but I think that we can implement an ability for plugin to providing default templates | 18:45 |
| dmitryme | right now we are thinking that cluster template should include several node templates, which will serve as templates for node groups | 18:45 |
| dmitryme | i.e. cluster template will include topology | 18:45 |
| SergeyLukjanov | one node template will describe configs and hardware for only one node group | 18:46 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and node group is the list of processes that will work at this node | 18:46 |
| jspeidel | I think that jmaron just explained how cluster/node templates to me. Is there a doc that explains how users create templates? | 18:48 |
| jspeidel | It is hard for me to get a good understanding over chat | 18:49 |
| dmitryme | John, no, we don't have the doc with all that | 18:49 |
| jmaron | it would also be good if we started seeing some sample templates to get a better sense of how they work | 18:49 |
| SergeyLukjanov | it's outdated :( we planing to update it asap | 18:49 |
| jspeidel | I think that is critical | 18:49 |
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| jspeidel | at least for my understanding | 18:49 |
| jspeidel | can Mirantis provide this soon? | 18:50 |
| SergeyLukjanov | in our current vision plugin should not know anything about templates | 18:50 |
| dmitryme | yes, it is pretty important and we're going to work on it next | 18:50 |
| SergeyLukjanov | plugin will receive aggregated info (Cluster object) | 18:50 |
| dmitryme | at the same time, plugin will not work directly with templates | 18:50 |
| dmitryme | plugin will receive just list of configs | 18:50 |
| jspeidel | ok, to be clear. I am still a bit confused about how cluster/node templates relate to node groups. So it is important that it is explained in the doc | 18:51 |
| jspeidel | and how the plugin is involved in the creation of templates | 18:51 |
| jmaron | true. the doc you generate should list the plugin API calls (get_supported_node_processes etc) that need to be inovked | 18:52 |
| SergeyLukjanov | in fact, node group = node template + number of nodes | 18:52 |
| jmaron | and cluster template = list of node groups? | 18:53 |
| SergeyLukjanov | list of node templates | 18:53 |
| jmaron | ah | 18:53 |
| jspeidel | ok. I assume the plugin will supply the available components that could be included in a node_template? | 18:53 |
| jmaron | though I suppose the template could provide a "default value" as well, but I don't want to go there right now ;) | 18:53 |
| SergeyLukjanov | so, the user can just select the cluster template and specify number of nodes and cluster will be created | 18:54 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jmaron, yep, see it | 18:54 |
| jspeidel | a proper use case describing how a user creates these template would be great | 18:55 |
| jmaron | and the interface implies that a user can add a node group beyond the node groups defined in the template | 18:55 |
| ruhe | right, it is noted in our mockup | 18:55 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | 1 node template describes only 1 node group, but you can just add more node templates to cluster | 18:56 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | I think that we should go to the #savanna channel to continue discussions due to the end of the time slot | 18:57 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | #endmeeting | 18:57 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | [22:31:22] openstack (~openstack@openstack/openstack) left IRC. (Remote host closed the connection) | 18:59 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | meetbot leaves us :( | 18:59 |
| flaper87 | SergeyLukjanov: try again | 18:59 |
| flaper87 | stupid meetbot | 18:59 |
| SergeyLukjanov | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| flaper87 | openstack: dude, do your job | 19:00 |
| aignatov2 | xD | 19:00 |
| flaper87 | gosh | 19:00 |
| flaper87 | let me try starting our meeting | 19:00 |
| flaper87 | #startmeeting marconi | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 16 19:00:45 2013 UTC. The chair is flaper87. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'marconi' | 19:00 |
| flaper87 | w0000000t | 19:00 |
| flaper87 | marconi folks around? | 19:01 |
| malini | yes Sir | 19:01 |
| * flaper87 wonders what's alessio's nick | 19:01 | |
| aababilov | Hi! It's Alessio! | 19:01 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: there you are | 19:01 |
| aababilov | si! :) | 19:01 |
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| flaper87 | soooo, it looks like it'll be the three of us today | 19:02 |
| flaper87 | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Marconi | 19:02 |
| flaper87 | that's the schedule for today | 19:02 |
| flaper87 | before we get there, is there anything we should know share or something? | 19:02 |
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| flaper87 | kk | 19:03 |
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| flaper87 | #topic blueprints | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 19:03 | |
| flaper87 | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi | 19:03 |
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| flaper87 | I know last week you guys went through the blueprints, I think we should do that again today and see which of those are really esential | 19:03 |
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| kgriffs | kk | 19:03 |
| flaper87 | so, we've got the base blueprints for transports and sotrages which are obviously essential | 19:04 |
| kgriffs | I guess we can move grizzly-debt down a notch | 19:04 |
| kgriffs | (or two) | 19:04 |
| flaper87 | and we've also got the transport wsgi and mongodb that are essential as well | 19:04 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: +1 | 19:04 |
| flaper87 | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/grizzly-debt | 19:04 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: done | 19:04 |
| flaper87 | #agreed setting grizzly-dept to medium | 19:05 |
| flaper87 | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/config-module | 19:05 |
| flaper87 | I think this one is ready | 19:05 |
| flaper87 | what do you guys think? | 19:06 |
| kgriffs | yeah, it's been stable for a while now | 19:06 |
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| flaper87 | cool, so, I guess we should set it as implemented | 19:06 |
| kgriffs | BTW, I'm thinking to move grizzly-debt to H2 | 19:06 |
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| flaper87 | kgriffs: makes sense | 19:06 |
| * kgriffs does that | 19:07 | |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: what about adding work items to it? | 19:07 |
| flaper87 | like Pay dept on transport | 19:07 |
| flaper87 | Pay debt on storage | 19:07 |
| flaper87 | and so on | 19:07 |
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| flaper87 | so we can have a single blueprint and a more organized tasks for that BP | 19:07 |
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| kgriffs | I like that idea. We haven't been using that feature yet. | 19:07 |
| kgriffs | +1 | 19:08 |
| aababilov | +1 | 19:09 |
| flaper87 | cool | 19:09 |
| aababilov | I really wondered what exactly means "Â fix all the broken windows" | 19:09 |
| flaper87 | #agreed add work items to grizzly-dept | 19:09 |
| aababilov | do we have appropriate FIXMEs? | 19:09 |
| * flaper87 set grizzly-debt as implemented by mistake. | 19:10 | |
| flaper87 | I put it back as started | 19:10 |
| * kgriffs seeded with a few work items | 19:10 | |
| flaper87 | awesome | 19:10 |
| aababilov | ok, 'cause now I see just one FIXME and 7 TODOs | 19:10 |
| flaper87 | so, I think essential blueprints are set | 19:11 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: mmh, perhaps your seeing bugs instead of blueprints ? | 19:11 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi | 19:11 |
| aababilov | no, I definitely look at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/grizzly-debt | 19:12 |
| flaper87 | we have qa-clusters set for havana-1 and marked as High | 19:12 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: ah sorry, I misunderstood | 19:12 |
| malini | we need those set up for the performance testing | 19:12 |
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| flaper87 | malini: does that have to happen for H-1 ? | 19:12 |
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| flaper87 | H-1 ends by the end of this month, AFAIK | 19:13 |
| flaper87 | we've to push that back | 19:13 |
| kgriffs | right, H1 ends on 30th | 19:13 |
| malini | ok..we might take longer to get the salt scripts etc. done for tht | 19:13 |
| flaper87 | ok, pushed it back to H-2 | 19:14 |
| flaper87 | we'll revisit it later | 19:14 |
| aababilov | there is no ref to Gerrit on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/qa-cluster but progress is good | 19:14 |
| flaper87 | FYI, this is the list of H-1 bps https://launchpad.net/marconi/+milestone/havana-1 | 19:14 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: gooood point | 19:14 |
| aababilov | https://review.openstack.org/: Service Temporarily Unavailable | 19:14 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: oz_akan is working on that, may have it done in a week or two | 19:15 |
| malini | tht one is just setting up the servers etc. So do you expect anything in gerrit for tht ? | 19:15 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: qa-clusters you mean? | 19:15 |
| kgriffs | right | 19:15 |
| flaper87 | right, I see him there, so, I guess we better wait for his update | 19:15 |
| kgriffs | oz_akan said he couldn't make it to the meeting, will email an update | 19:16 |
| flaper87 | sounds good | 19:16 |
| flaper87 | next: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/service-hooks | 19:16 |
| kgriffs | I think we can keep it in h1 for now - malini do you know if he still plans on finishing this in the next week or two? | 19:17 |
| malini | he has plans to finish it soon | 19:17 |
| kgriffs | excellent | 19:17 |
| flaper87 | #action oz_akan to send update about the progress on qa-cluster | 19:17 |
| flaper87 | :D | 19:17 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: re service-hooks I bumped up that priority because it's required to implement input validation | 19:17 |
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| kgriffs | but we can postpone to h2. Methinks fixing bugs and closing functionality gaps is more important | 19:18 |
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| flaper87 | kgriffs: +1 | 19:18 |
| kgriffs | (i.e., postpone both service-hooks and input-validation) | 19:18 |
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| flaper87 | ok, doing it now if there are no objections | 19:19 |
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| flaper87 | #info launchpad is REALLY STUPID pushes back a parent and not its dependency (not even a small note) | 19:19 |
| flaper87 | next | 19:20 |
| flaper87 | I guess the same applies for this one https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/message-pagination | 19:20 |
| aababilov | what is the pagination model? | 19:21 |
| aababilov | what has client to specify: the market or the offset? | 19:21 |
| aababilov | markeR | 19:22 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: the idea is to have a way to paginate messages and queues through the API but it has to be fast and simple for other transports as well | 19:22 |
| flaper87 | so far we don't have pagination so we decided to put it in a separated bp | 19:22 |
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| flaper87 | kgriffs: news about this one? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/v1-obvious-optimizations | 19:23 |
| flaper87 | and the pagination one? | 19:23 |
| flaper87 | (a couple of more minutes for blueprints and then we'll move on to other topics) | 19:23 |
| flaper87 | I think the later can stay for H-1 | 19:24 |
| flaper87 | I think we're in good shape for H-1 https://launchpad.net/marconi/+milestone/havana-1 | 19:25 |
| * flaper87 is basically talking to himself :P | 19:25 | |
| flaper87 | ooooooooooooooooooke-doke | 19:26 |
| flaper87 | moving on | 19:26 |
| flaper87 | #topic marconiclient adopting oslo's apiclient | 19:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "marconiclient adopting oslo's apiclient (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 19:27 | |
| flaper87 | so, I like the idea in general | 19:27 |
| flaper87 | and having a common client lib throughout openstack makes sense to me | 19:27 |
| flaper87 | (fucking gerrit is down) | 19:28 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: so, a couple of thoughts about your patch | 19:28 |
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| aababilov | but I have comments in my email | 19:28 |
| kgriffs | sorry, got distracted. | 19:28 |
| * kgriffs is reading log | 19:28 | |
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| flaper87 | 1) I'd like to move that outside openstack/common and put it in common/ | 19:28 |
| aababilov | should I say a couple of words about the library's purpose? | 19:28 |
| flaper87 | the reason is that openstack/common belongs to oslo | 19:29 |
| flaper87 | and as for now, we're implementing it as part of marconiclient | 19:29 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: go ahead | 19:29 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: aababilov is the guy who has been working on the common client library for openstack | 19:29 |
| aababilov | apiclient contains code that's common for python-*client | 19:30 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: re pagination, we have the idea of marker, limit defined. we just have to solve the fifo+guaranteed delivery | 19:30 |
| kgriffs | aababilov: excellent. nice progress on that | 19:30 |
| aababilov | 1) HttpClient (that reissues authentication request for expired tokens) | 19:30 |
| aababilov | 2) pluggable authentication: | 19:31 |
| aababilov | a) keystone; | 19:31 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: right, I saw it is marked as Good Progress, should it stay in H-1? | 19:31 |
| aababilov | b) endpoint + token | 19:31 |
| aababilov | c) nova legacy | 19:31 |
| aababilov | d) whatever | 19:31 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: yeah, I plan on tackling that in the very near future | 19:31 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: ++ | 19:31 |
| aababilov | 3) rich exception hierarchy | 19:31 |
| aababilov | 4) Manager and Resource base classes | 19:31 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: all that sounds good to me | 19:32 |
| aababilov | 5) utils for building CLI tools (temporarily) | 19:32 |
| aababilov | what do we have now? | 19:32 |
| kgriffs | does it do async requests? | 19:32 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: so, the idea would be to use marconiclient as a "test" environment for the api. I think both the api and marconiclient can benefit from this interaction | 19:33 |
| flaper87 | and early adopting stage | 19:33 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: good question | 19:33 |
| aababilov | no. Could you show me a sample implementation? | 19:33 |
| aababilov | (implementation of async req) | 19:33 |
| aababilov | ok, I'll proceed | 19:33 |
| kgriffs | we were playing around with that in the python-marconiclient prototype | 19:33 |
| aababilov | gerrit is down, but believe me | 19:34 |
| kgriffs | https://github.com/painterjd/python-marconiclient | 19:34 |
| aababilov | I have written updates for almost all python*clients, except of quantum and swift | 19:34 |
| aababilov | all unit tests pass | 19:34 |
| flaper87 | #link https://github.com/kennethreitz/grequests | 19:34 |
| aababilov | CLI utilities work and are backwards-compatible | 19:34 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: kgriffs perhaps based on that ^ | 19:34 |
| kgriffs | the reason I ask, is that 1) a event queue client naturally lends itself well to an event-driven model | 19:35 |
| aababilov | thanks! | 19:35 |
| kgriffs | and 2 ) to get your thoughts on eventlet vs greenlet vs that-py3-thing | 19:35 |
| kgriffs | (AKA tulip) | 19:35 |
| * flaper87 thinks tulip is cool | 19:35 | |
| aababilov | grequests look nice | 19:36 |
| kgriffs | re grequests, that would be cool | 19:36 |
| flaper87 | :) | 19:36 |
| * flaper87 wants pop-tarts | 19:36 | |
| wirehead_ | My vague sense at the moment is that everybody seems to be a bit gung ho to play with Tulip | 19:36 |
| kgriffs | maybe we contribute and make it magically work with tulip and py3 | 19:36 |
| * kgriffs gives flaper87 a chocolate pop-tart | 19:37 | |
| flaper87 | w00000t | 19:37 |
| wirehead_ | And that's across different OpenStack teams. | 19:37 |
| kgriffs | there was a discussion at the summit about migrating away from eventlet | 19:37 |
| aababilov | but my point is to accept apiclient in some form and to begin improving it | 19:37 |
| kgriffs | (the other reason I bring this up) | 19:38 |
| kgriffs | yes | 19:38 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: that's the plan | 19:38 |
| kgriffs | async can come later | 19:38 |
| kgriffs | feel free to use marconi as a guinea pig | 19:38 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: there was a question in the review about whether to have the client under openstack/common/apiclient or common/apiclient | 19:38 |
| aababilov | could we accept apiclient to oslo? it's an incubator, isn't it? | 19:38 |
| kgriffs | (for apiclient in general) | 19:38 |
| aababilov | marconiclient will be the first user | 19:38 |
| flaper87 | my suggestion is to put it in common | 19:38 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: kk | 19:39 |
| flaper87 | because openstack/common/ is oslo's holy ground | 19:39 |
| flaper87 | and dude, you don't want to mess with it | 19:39 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: yep, it's an incubator lib BUT, it is always good to have the base API sorted out before letting anything land there | 19:39 |
| flaper87 | so, first give it a try somewhere | 19:39 |
| flaper87 | and then move it there | 19:40 |
| kgriffs | oic | 19:40 |
| flaper87 | so that people *know* how that thing should work | 19:40 |
| kgriffs | heh | 19:40 |
| aababilov | sure, but what will be the criterions to put it to oslo? | 19:40 |
| aababilov | marconiclient lacks unit tests | 19:40 |
| * kgriffs is finally caught up with the conversation | 19:40 | |
| flaper87 | aababilov: yep, it lacks of everything | 19:40 |
| aababilov | novaclient and keystoneclient have them | 19:40 |
| aababilov | we have integration tests in tempest | 19:41 |
| aababilov | I could update horizon | 19:41 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: yep but we need many unittests 1) for apiclient (which are the ones that will be ported to oslo) and 2) for marconiclient | 19:41 |
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| kgriffs | how quickly could you get apiclient accepted for one of the mature projects? | 19:42 |
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| aababilov | it depends on maintainers | 19:42 |
| flaper87 | TBH, I wouldn't do that | 19:42 |
| aababilov | it took 3-4 days to update all clients | 19:42 |
| flaper87 | I'd rather test it and improve it on marconi than going out there and implement it in mature clients | 19:43 |
| kgriffs | +1 | 19:43 |
| kgriffs | i was just thinking it may be a real chore to get it accepted into those other projects | 19:43 |
| kgriffs | (without any track record) | 19:43 |
| flaper87 | exactly | 19:44 |
| flaper87 | so, we've got 15 mins left and I'd love to share some thoughts about zmq transport | 19:44 |
| aababilov | well, apiclient is not written from scratch | 19:44 |
| aababilov | it's mostly an aggregation of code that already resides in *clients | 19:44 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: yeah, that's cool, I mean, it's based on other clients sweat | 19:44 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: TBH, that last sentence scares a bit | 19:45 |
| flaper87 | code from different places put in the same package... | 19:45 |
| flaper87 | it's not bad but it definitely neeeds to be tested a LOT | 19:45 |
| flaper87 | that's my thinking | 19:45 |
| flaper87 | so, again, I'd suggest you, if you agree, to use marconiclient as test environment | 19:46 |
| flaper87 | and both projects will ebnefit from each other | 19:46 |
| flaper87 | you can always go ahead and propose it to other clients as well | 19:46 |
| flaper87 | but if something changes in 1 client, you'll have to update all of them | 19:46 |
| aababilov | sure, I agree to use marconiclient! | 19:46 |
| flaper87 | cooooooooool | 19:46 |
| flaper87 | aababilov: feel free to join #openstack-marconi :) | 19:47 |
| aababilov | done :) | 19:47 |
| flaper87 | any other thoughts here ? | 19:47 |
| flaper87 | cool | 19:47 |
| flaper87 | moving on | 19:47 |
| flaper87 | #topic zmq transport and flaper87 crazy ideas | 19:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "zmq transport and flaper87 crazy ideas (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 19:48 | |
| flaper87 | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/marconi-zmq | 19:48 |
| flaper87 | so, I was working on that ^ | 19:48 |
| flaper87 | which seems incomplete | 19:48 |
| flaper87 | and that's what it actually is | 19:48 |
| flaper87 | and then thought that, if we've to implement an RPC like API for the zmq stuff, why don't we use the same rpc like protocol for all the transports? | 19:49 |
| * flaper87 runs away | 19:49 | |
| * flaper87 runs fast, fast faaaaaaaaaaaaaaast | 19:49 | |
| kgriffs | heh | 19:49 |
| flaper87 | the idea would be to use the same "RPC" like for HTTP communications as well | 19:49 |
| flaper87 | benefits: | 19:49 |
| flaper87 | 1) same code | 19:49 |
| flaper87 | 2) same verifications | 19:50 |
| flaper87 | 3) less code to maintain | 19:50 |
| flaper87 | drawbacks: | 19:50 |
| flaper87 | 1) RPC over HTTP, erm, that sounds like a bunch of POST requests | 19:50 |
| flaper87 | 2) it's all json based and more data will flight to / from the server | 19:51 |
| kgriffs | RPC over HTTP is fuuuuuugly | 19:51 |
| flaper87 | other benefit I see is that the same protocol can be used for websocket | 19:51 |
| flaper87 | so, that's the crazy idea | 19:51 |
| kgriffs | websocket is ok | 19:51 |
| flaper87 | if it really sucks I'll just STFU | 19:51 |
| kgriffs | well, we have a couple paradigms | 19:52 |
| aababilov | gerrit is alive! | 19:52 |
| kgriffs | one is RPC, one is REST | 19:52 |
| flaper87 | yeah | 19:52 |
| kgriffs | just thinking out loud. so... | 19:52 |
| flaper87 | go ahead | 19:52 |
| flaper87 | you've 8 mins before you'll have to shut your brain down | 19:53 |
| kgriffs | it would be interesting to layer HTTP and RPC over the controllers | 19:53 |
| kgriffs | just means the controllers have to support the combined set of everything REST and RPC need | 19:53 |
| kgriffs | :p | 19:53 |
| flaper87 | #link https://github.com/openstack/glance/blob/master/glance/common/rpc.py | 19:53 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: there you can have an idea of how that could work ^ | 19:54 |
| kgriffs | kk | 19:54 |
| kgriffs | I'll have to noodle on this | 19:54 |
| flaper87 | so, I'd say, lets think this a bit more and elaborate the idea a bit better | 19:54 |
| flaper87 | #action flaper87 elaborate RPC idea better and get more pros / cons | 19:55 |
| flaper87 | I'll work on the RPC spec anyway because we'll need that for zmq | 19:55 |
| kgriffs | for now, I vote keeping the HTTP transport RESTful, but I'm open to doing something oslo-ish with the other transports | 19:55 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: cool | 19:55 |
| flaper87 | so, speaking of oslo | 19:55 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: did you read the pad? | 19:56 |
| flaper87 | there are some benefits from using it | 19:56 |
| * flaper87 just realized he jumped the tests status update | 19:56 | |
| flaper87 | malini: SO SO Sorry | 19:56 |
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| flaper87 | how much time you need for that? | 19:57 |
| malini | just a couple of min | 19:57 |
| flaper87 | ETOOMANY TOPICS | 19:57 |
| malini | but finish up the zmq stuff first | 19:57 |
| flaper87 | malini: not much to say for now, just wanted to share those 2 was for doing it so we can start thinking about that | 19:57 |
| flaper87 | plus, I wanted to tell the crazy idea | 19:58 |
| flaper87 | :P | 19:58 |
| flaper87 | moving on | 19:58 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: I saw the pad, will do some ponderin' | 19:58 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: cool, thanks a lot | 19:58 |
| flaper87 | I'll share with cppcabrera as well | 19:58 |
| flaper87 | #topic system tests status update | 19:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "system tests status update (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 19:58 | |
| flaper87 | malini: go ahead | 19:58 |
| malini | I have fixed the large bulk of the flake8 errors in the system tests. The remaining few are module import errors. That one looks a little tricky & we are still figuring out how to fix tht. | 19:58 |
| flaper87 | 2 mins | 19:58 |
| kgriffs | does it look like a flake8 bug? | 19:59 |
| * kgriffs famous last words | 19:59 | |
| flaper87 | malini: cool, did you try asking mordred as well? (Monty) | 19:59 |
| mordred | aroo? | 19:59 |
| flaper87 | he implemented that for most projects | 19:59 |
| malini | sure.. | 19:59 |
| flaper87 | mordred: there you are :D | 19:59 |
| mordred | sup | 19:59 |
| flaper87 | malini: ^ | 19:59 |
| malini | I am having trouble getting some of my modules mergeed | 19:59 |
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| malini | flake8 claims its not a module | 20:00 |
| flaper87 | we've just 1 min left | 20:00 |
| mordred | malini: can you point me towards a failing review? | 20:00 |
| malini | sure.. will ping u offline..we are almost out of time here | 20:00 |
| flaper87 | guys, I've got to end the meeting now! malini thanks for your hard work on tests. ++ for you | 20:00 |
| malini | thanks :) | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | Thanks guys, really great meeting full of interesting topics | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | #endmeeting | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 16 20:01:23 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-05-16-19.00.html | 20:01 |
| kgriffs | cheers | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-05-16-19.00.txt | 20:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-05-16-19.00.log.html | 20:01 |
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| markwash | glance meeting soon | 20:01 |
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| flaper87 | \o/ | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | \o/ | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | \o/ | 20:02 |
| markwash | shall we? | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | yep | 20:02 |
| Guest25612 | hi | 20:02 |
| ameade | may have to leave early so lets go | 20:02 |
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| markwash | #startmeeting glance | 20:03 |
| Guest25612 | +1 | 20:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 16 20:03:01 2013 UTC. The chair is markwash. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | yep | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:03 | |
| flaper87 | \o/ | 20:03 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'glance' | 20:03 |
| iccha_ | hey | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | \o/ | 20:03 |
| markwash | hi errbody | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | \o/ | 20:03 |
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| flaper87 | that's a body execption | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | exception* | 20:03 |
| jbresnah | wave | 20:03 |
| markwash | I was out for most of last week | 20:03 |
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| markwash | today, i don't have a really set agenda (not one that I recall, at least!) | 20:03 |
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| jbresnah | markwash: async workers is an outstanding topic | 20:04 |
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| * flaper87 raises both hands \o/ | 20:04 | |
| markwash | my main item is to target as many blueprints in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/havana | 20:04 |
| jbresnah | if there is time for a discussion that may be a good topic | 20:04 |
| nikhil__ | I may have a dependency level | 20:04 |
| esheffield | that's one I'm particularly interested in | 20:04 |
| nikhil__ | and def asyn workers is most imp | 20:04 |
| markwash | okay, cool | 20:04 |
| esheffield | async workers that is | 20:04 |
| markwash | first, does anybody have announcements? | 20:04 |
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| nikhil__ | who's getting married? | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | any new kids ? | 20:05 |
| markwash | I noticed the new xfer service work was started | 20:05 |
| jbresnah | markwash: should better test suite bp be targeted for havana? | 20:05 |
| jbresnah | flaper87: actually.... | 20:05 |
| jbresnah | flaper87: my wife is due with a new kid in < 4 weeks | 20:06 |
| iccha_ | thats awesome jbresnah | 20:06 |
| jbresnah | so if i seem panicky lately.... | 20:06 |
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| jbresnah | also i may disaapear for a few weeks at that point | 20:06 |
| jbresnah | just fyi | 20:06 |
| markwash | cool | 20:06 |
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| iccha_ | so far here are the items i see mentioned 1. async workers - updates 2. transfer service 3. test suite | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | jbresnah: congrats ;) | 20:07 |
| markwash | I guess lets quickly see if we can make any progress on blueprint targeting, and then discuss async workers? | 20:07 |
| nikhil__ | jbresnah: gud luk | 20:07 |
| ameade | markwash: +1 | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | markwash: +1 | 20:07 |
| iccha_ | +1 | 20:07 |
| markwash | #topic blueprint targeting | 20:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprint targeting (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:07 | |
| nikhil__ | +1 | 20:07 |
| markwash | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/havana | 20:07 |
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| markwash | everything there that is not targeted should be | 20:07 |
| markwash | and some of the ones with targets might be wrong, considering h1 is not very far away | 20:08 |
| nikhil__ | markwash: cloning u mean? | 20:08 |
| nikhil__ | I heard a rumour that it's not in havana? | 20:08 |
| iccha_ | when is h1? | 20:09 |
| markwash | May 30th | 20:09 |
| markwash | 2 weeks from today | 20:09 |
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| rosmaita_ | that is pretty soon | 20:09 |
| jbresnah | yeah that is soon | 20:09 |
| nikhil__ | soon-=1 | 20:09 |
| markwash | nikhil__: I don't know what you mean about cloning | 20:10 |
| markwash | its in the havana list, that's all I know | 20:10 |
| nikhil__ | markwash: ohk, just wanted to make sure | 20:10 |
| iccha_ | markwash: is bcwaldon working on multiple locations? | 20:10 |
| markwash | looking over the list, it seems to me that we still need to sort out upload-download workflow | 20:10 |
| markwash | but maybe that is blocked on our async workers discussion? | 20:10 |
| markwash | iccha_: not that I've noticed | 20:11 |
| jbresnah | markwash: i think that is right | 20:11 |
| nikhil__ | markwash: yes | 20:11 |
| jbresnah | markwash: i think up/down is largely sorted out based on the fallout of async | 20:11 |
| iccha_ | markwash: it is a dependency but we can figure out the workflow wihtout it assuming async workers will work | 20:11 |
| iccha_ | do we want to schedule a time to talk about async workers in openstack-glance sometime? is there an intial layout? | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | I wrote down some ideas and considerations | 20:12 |
| iccha_ | i am sorry i missed prev 2 meetings not sure if it was already done | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | and I wanted to share that today if possible | 20:12 |
| markwash | sounds good | 20:12 |
| rosmaita_ | please share! | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | but I'm ok with doing it in a separate meeting if time is not enough | 20:12 |
| markwash | I guess we're not going to make a ton of progress with bp targeting without sorting out the async stuff | 20:13 |
| markwash | so let's move on to that soon, but first | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | rosmaita_: that will cost a couple fo pop-tarts | 20:13 |
| markwash | is anyone else interested in tackling multiple image locations? | 20:13 |
| rosmaita_ | dafuq? | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | markwash: if no one is going to work on that | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | I can take it | 20:13 |
| jbresnah | markwash: i could do it | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | or he ^ | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | :D | 20:14 |
| jbresnah | flaper87: or we could tag team it... | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | jbresnah: +1 | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | sounds like a plan | 20:14 |
| jbresnah | markwash: i am pretty interested in seeing it get done, so if it is stalled out i could get on it | 20:14 |
| markwash | cool, I'll assign jbresnah then | 20:14 |
| rosmaita_ | with your timezone separation, i think you can work on it continuously | 20:14 |
| markwash | haha | 20:14 |
| jbresnah | heh | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | LOL | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | 24h | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | :P | 20:14 |
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| jbresnah | markwash: should we make sure that is cool with bcwaldon first? | 20:15 |
| markwash | meh | 20:15 |
| * jbresnah doesn't like to step on toes | 20:15 | |
| markwash | I'll talk to him about it tomorrow at some point | 20:15 |
| jbresnah | ok | 20:15 |
| markwash | don't worry in this case | 20:15 |
| markwash | okay, anything else before we launch into async workers? | 20:15 |
| * flaper87 is worried about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-glanceclient/+spec/glance-client-v2 | 20:16 | |
| iccha_ | 11 am EST monday in #openstack-glance we will be discussing protected properties in anyone is interested in joining in | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | iccha_: awesome | 20:16 |
| markwash | flaper87: ah good point | 20:16 |
| iccha_ | https://etherpad.openstack.org/public-glance-protected-props is link iwth some notes | 20:16 |
| markwash | flaper87: once we get that, we can look at a major version bump in glanceclient as well | 20:16 |
| markwash | which is good for dropping legacy | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | markwash: exactly | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | so, I see there hasn't been any movement there | 20:17 |
| jbresnah | iccha: i will try to make that, a little bit early for me but possible | 20:17 |
| markwash | honestly, I'm kind of out of touch with glance client, and I'd love if there could be a sort of glanceclient lieutenant to help usher us through the process | 20:17 |
| markwash | and manage releases | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | I can help with that | 20:17 |
| markwash | well, I'd like to be consulted about managing releases, of course | 20:18 |
| markwash | :-) | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | sure, as for now, I'm worried about the API v2 not being fully supported | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | and people asking for it T_T | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | :P | 20:18 |
| markwash | cool, flaper87 let's touch base offline to see how we can move forward | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | markwash: +1 | 20:18 |
| rosmaita_ | i do know that v2 image sharing is in glance client | 20:19 |
| iccha_ | finally got merged after 2+ months :p | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | iccha_: :D | 20:19 |
| * markwash is sad about dropping the ball on that merge | 20:19 | |
| markwash | sorry to drag you through all those "restores" | 20:20 |
| nikhil__ | async workers pls? | 20:20 |
| markwash | #topic async workers | 20:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "async workers (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:20 | |
| * markwash passes the mic to flaper87 | 20:20 | |
| * flaper87 clears his voice | 20:21 | |
| flaper87 | so, these are some of the thoughts I had related to async workers https://etherpad.openstack.org/glance-async-worker | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | I took more time to think about what could happen / should be changed if that happens | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | and how can that be implemented | 20:21 |
| nikhil__ | one comment | 20:22 |
| nikhil__ | inline | 20:22 |
| jbresnah | i am not sure there should be 1 way to implement the async worker... | 20:22 |
| markwash | looking at the two ideas for implementation (1: green threads in the api, 2: async workers across rpc), could we make 1 vs. 2 a configuration setting? | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | as shown in the pad, the 2 basic ideas are: 1) KISS and do it within glance-api 2) Use something more "complex" and keep it in a separate service (with scheduler and that kind of things) | 20:22 |
| jbresnah | i would like to see a plugin interface | 20:23 |
| jbresnah | to glance-api proper it may always look like #1 | 20:23 |
| jbresnah | but the plugin may implement with #2 | 20:23 |
| esheffield | to me it feels like this may be a wheel that's getting reinvented in several places in openstack | 20:23 |
| markwash | jbresnah: +1 that makes sense to me a lot | 20:23 |
| flaper87 | jbresnah: markwash indeed, that could be addressed with the new oslo's messaging api | 20:23 |
| flaper87 | " For both ideas it would be nice to use the new messaging " | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | because it supports blocking executors and eventlet based executors that could be used through an in-memory queue | 20:24 |
| jbresnah | i can see cases where messaging may not be needed | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | jbresnah: agreed | 20:24 |
| nikhil__ | can we discuss based on use cases | 20:25 |
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| nikhil__ | this looks like a wild goose chase | 20:25 |
| jbresnah | nikhil: good plan | 20:25 |
| markwash | well, one big use case is devstack | 20:25 |
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| markwash | to me that's the driving use case for in-api green threads / eventlet | 20:26 |
| iccha_ | could u elaborate on the devstack use please markwash ? | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | markwash: ^ | 20:26 |
| markwash | well, whatever we want to do, we want it to work in super simple deployments like devstack | 20:27 |
| markwash | and it would be nice to have those working without adding a generally unnecessary extra process to track | 20:27 |
| iccha_ | which makes the case for making it configurable stronger | 20:27 |
| jbresnah | what is something that devstack would use async workers for? | 20:27 |
| nikhil__ | QE | 20:28 |
| nikhil__ | is what comes to mind | 20:28 |
| markwash | import and export I guess | 20:28 |
| markwash | QE? | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | markwash: devstack is already capable of configuring the oslo's rpc implementation | 20:28 |
| jbresnah | umm, sorry | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | I think import / export is one of the main points | 20:28 |
| nikhil__ | do we really need a export? | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | followed by image introspection | 20:28 |
| nikhil__ | I feel like totally out of sync then | 20:28 |
| jbresnah | yeah, i meant how would async be used as a use case | 20:28 |
| nikhil__ | jbresnah: yeah | 20:29 |
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| nikhil__ | i mean : me too | 20:29 |
| jbresnah | not what glance use cases do we want to not disrupt | 20:29 |
| markwash | we're talking about different api calls that process something in the background | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | exactly | 20:29 |
| markwash | so devstack would have the same use cases | 20:30 |
| markwash | as any other deployment | 20:30 |
| flaper87 | I see that being useful in different scenarios (like those in the pad) | 20:30 |
| jbresnah | nod | 20:30 |
| markwash | just with the additional constraint of it being all in one box | 20:30 |
| jbresnah | i just think it may be helpful to walk through how an example async worker would work | 20:30 |
| nikhil__ | I interpreted jbresnah's question as "is there a need to have it in devstack"? | 20:30 |
| markwash | there is also the usecase where an existing deployment upgrades and doesn't want to change their deployment layout at first | 20:30 |
| jbresnah | for example, an async worker that handles the upload | 20:30 |
| jbresnah | or an async worker that handles image conversion | 20:31 |
| iccha_ | markwash: are u driving towards why we need both types of implementation and configurable? | 20:31 |
| markwash | iccha_: yes I think so | 20:31 |
| markwash | that probably wasn't a clear as I should have made it :-) | 20:31 |
| markwash | s/a clear/as clear/ | 20:31 |
| nikhil__ | agree | 20:32 |
| markwash | devstack and existing deployments might want the new asynchronous operation features without changing their deployment layout (ie, not adding another process / moving part) | 20:32 |
| nikhil__ | however, for even a small production level deployment | 20:32 |
| flaper87 | I agree on the fact that both methods should be supported | 20:32 |
| flaper87 | we can vote :) | 20:32 |
| nikhil__ | do we think that threads on api nodes could handle just fine? | 20:33 |
| jbresnah | i would think that both methods would be supported by way of what ever plugin was in use | 20:33 |
| nikhil__ | my concern is | 20:33 |
| nikhil__ | if we are waiting for both support | 20:33 |
| jbresnah | i think glance would dictate a plugin interface | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | nikhil__: I bet they would, my point is, there's already some work going on on similar code in oslo, so, why should we write it again? | 20:33 |
| jbresnah | but allow the plugins to implement that iface in wahtever way it felt best | 20:33 |
| markwash | flaper87: ohh | 20:34 |
| nikhil__ | and if just async workers on api nodes do not work, then effort is futile to a great extent | 20:34 |
| nikhil__ | flaper87: gotcha | 20:34 |
| iccha_ | does doing a async worker separately and not as a thread in api , does that necessarily mean that it becomes heavier and complex? | 20:34 |
| markwash | flaper87: from glance's perspective, the async processing should just be an object or group of objects | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | so, this is the current state in oslo's new messaging (RPC) api https://github.com/markmc/oslo-incubator/tree/messaging/openstack/common/messaging | 20:34 |
| iccha_ | could it be configurable to make the worker light weight with say one thread vs more complex with many threads or something like that | 20:35 |
| markwash | if messaging supports making the choice of local or remote really easy, we should use that | 20:35 |
| flaper87 | markwash: I think it does, I'll work on a POC for that | 20:35 |
| flaper87 | #action flaper87 work on a POC for using oslo's messaging | 20:35 |
| jbresnah | iccha: i would think that would be up to the worker | 20:35 |
| markwash | what I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense for async processing to have a "messaging" interface, rather messaging should be an implementation detail of what's underneath the interface | 20:36 |
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| nikhil__ | +1 | 20:36 |
| flaper87 | as explained in the pad, I see some extra benefits moving towards that (aling glance with oslo and updating the notification stuff) | 20:36 |
| jbresnah | iccha: i would like to see glance proper have a lightweight thread to manage/start/check status/etc of all it ... what mark said | 20:36 |
| markwash | I think it makes sense that oslo-common messaging gets us where we want to be | 20:36 |
| flaper87 | markwash: In my head I see some higher-level API in glance that wraps oslo's calls | 20:37 |
| flaper87 | like, Async.process_this_stuff(...) | 20:37 |
| markwash | I guess the POC is the right first step in any case, though | 20:37 |
| flaper87 | markwash: yep | 20:37 |
| markwash | we can take a look at it, and offer an alternative if one seems necessary | 20:37 |
| flaper87 | sounds like a plan | 20:37 |
| flaper87 | I'm not saying that will work :P | 20:37 |
| flaper87 | if you don't see me on-line | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | I'm ok, I just ran away | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | :D | 20:38 |
| markwash | do we need task tracking with this approach? | 20:39 |
| flaper87 | as a sidenote, I didn't work on any POC because I first wanted to agree with everyone on some usecases and perhaps a flow | 20:39 |
| * markwash thinks we should ignore his task tracking comment for now | 20:39 | |
| jbresnah | i am not sure what was decided | 20:39 |
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| flaper87 | jbresnah: flaper87 work on a POC for using oslo's messaging | 20:40 |
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| nikhil__ | does marconi have influence on that? | 20:41 |
| nikhil__ | flaper87: ^^ | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | nikhil__: not sure I understand | 20:42 |
| jbresnah | i dont understand why messaging is a first class design choice yet | 20:42 |
| nikhil__ | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Marconi | 20:42 |
| nikhil__ | flaper87: ^^ | 20:42 |
| jbresnah | i would like to be free to have a custom plugin that does its work via fork | 20:42 |
| jbresnah | or via a thread | 20:42 |
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| jbresnah | etc | 20:42 |
| jbresnah | i dont like forcing messaging | 20:42 |
| nikhil__ | +1 | 20:42 |
| flaper87 | jbresnah: well, that's basically what oslo's messaging does | 20:42 |
| jbresnah | it seems like the wrong angle of attack | 20:42 |
| iccha_ | could we have like a pro cons list in the etherpad | 20:42 |
| * markwash agrees | 20:43 | |
| flaper87 | but with a simple queue that can be either in memory or through MB | 20:43 |
| jbresnah | flapper: that is about messaging tho | 20:43 |
| flaper87 | etherpad stopped working here | 20:43 |
| markwash | flaper87: but, there are some cases where you wouldn't use messaging at all, like if you say used fabric to ssh to another node to initiate processing | 20:43 |
| jbresnah | seems like the topic has the wrong focus | 20:43 |
| nikhil__ | last I saw this, we'r trying to do store to store trnasfers using a asycn worker | 20:43 |
| markwash | flaper87: or if you wanted to kick off some processing on a node that is really "close" to the data, like a zerovm or docker worker | 20:44 |
| jbresnah | right | 20:44 |
| flaper87 | mmhh | 20:44 |
| jbresnah | i think the first bit of work is: define a async worker worlflow | 20:44 |
| jbresnah | define the state machine from glance api perpective and client persoective | 20:44 |
| jbresnah | then define an interface that async workers will implement | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | yeap, that's what I was expecting from this meeting | 20:45 |
| jbresnah | after that implementation details will make more sense | 20:45 |
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| flaper87 | so we could start working on some POC after that | 20:45 |
| jbresnah | oh, and i think task #0 should be a requirements definition | 20:46 |
| jbresnah | so we know what we are solving exactly | 20:46 |
| jbresnah | i think parts of those things exist | 20:46 |
| nikhil__ | jbresnah: perfect! | 20:46 |
| iccha_ | +1 | 20:46 |
| iccha_ | because i was starting to get a little lost here with all the different ideas | 20:46 |
| nikhil__ | :) | 20:46 |
| iccha_ | requirements, with a pro con list of basic approaches | 20:47 |
| markwash | I'd like to see what "import" would look like in the v2 code, using async processing | 20:47 |
| jbresnah | well... | 20:47 |
| jbresnah | i am not sure approaches whould be married with requirements | 20:47 |
| nikhil__ | 4 mins till open discussion? (if someone has one - just a friendly reminder) | 20:47 |
| jbresnah | requirements with a list of pros and cons for the requirement | 20:47 |
| jbresnah | but it would be good to agree on the requirements up front without mixing in impl discussion | 20:47 |
| jbresnah | markwash: i think that is the perfect use case to define around | 20:48 |
| flaper87 | +1 | 20:48 |
| iccha_ | +1 | 20:48 |
| markwash | I might not be good at "requirements" though exactly, more like "here's what I want the interface to look like" | 20:48 |
| rosmaita_ | +1 | 20:48 |
| rosmaita_ | (that was to jbreshah, not markwash!) | 20:49 |
| markwash | #action markwash try to code up a stubbed version of import in v2, maybe it will help motivate requirements | 20:49 |
| nikhil__ | :D | 20:49 |
| nikhil__ | agree on the "import" | 20:49 |
| nikhil__ | that's the most imp requirement in my mind | 20:50 |
| * markwash is trying to "first do no harm" to this discussion, not sure its working | 20:50 | |
| jbresnah | markwash: i can help with requirements | 20:50 |
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| jbresnah | tho... i am not sure i am in the position to know what people want exactly... | 20:50 |
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| esheffield | I'd like to help with that as well | 20:51 |
| nikhil__ | someone pls create an action item for this | 20:51 |
| nikhil__ | requirements gathering | 20:51 |
| nikhil__ | that's software engineering 101 | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | does etherpad work for you? | 20:52 |
| iccha_ | in terms of import export there are a few etherpads rosmaita_ created | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | it stopped working here | 20:52 |
| jbresnah | etherpad works | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | mmh | 20:52 |
| * nikhil__ feels like sync failed | 20:52 | |
| rosmaita_ | not here, stopped working long time ago | 20:52 |
| esheffield | not worker for me either | 20:52 |
| jbresnah | oh, sorry i thought you meant as a forum for requirement gathering | 20:52 |
| iccha_ | that is separate jbresnah :) | 20:52 |
| jbresnah | etherpad has been falky for me this entire houtr | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | ok | 20:52 |
| iccha_ | the import export stuff is just for us to look at import export work flow and req gathering is for async worker | 20:53 |
| jbresnah | agreed | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | so, what are the next steps on this topic? | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | markwash: will work on that stubbed version of import in v2 | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | right? | 20:54 |
| jbresnah | someone should take point on requirements gathering | 20:54 |
| nikhil__ | pros and cons list for me pls | 20:54 |
| nikhil__ | i can take requirements gathering | 20:55 |
| markwash | flaper87: right | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | #action nikhil__ to work on requirements gathering | 20:55 |
| nikhil__ | cool | 20:55 |
| jbresnah | nikhil: cool, keep in the loop please | 20:55 |
| markwash | nikhil__: ditto what jbresnah said for me | 20:55 |
| iccha_ | flaper87: have u added ur etherpad to async workers bp? | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | nikhil__: and me :D | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | iccha_: nope, I created it today because I took those notes offline | 20:56 |
| flaper87 | I'll do | 20:56 |
| nikhil__ | think I'll just keep all posted on openstack-glance | 20:56 |
| flaper87 | nikhil__: please, have mercy with europeans :D | 20:56 |
| flaper87 | well, I should definitely sleep more but that's another story | 20:56 |
| nikhil__ | you mean the timezone rt? | 20:56 |
| nikhil__ | kk | 20:56 |
| flaper87 | nikhil__: yep :D | 20:56 |
| markwash | any time left for open discussion? | 20:56 |
| iccha_ | 3 mins | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | 3 mins | 20:57 |
| nikhil__ | I dont have any agenda and need to go in 3 mins | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | markwash: what iccha_ said :D | 20:57 |
| markwash | #topic open discussion | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:57 | |
| markwash | I'd like to have a meeting time that is more friendly to the other hemisphere | 20:58 |
| markwash | at least 1/month | 20:58 |
| markwash | not sure if I already said that here, or in #openstack-glance | 20:58 |
| rosmaita_ | +1 | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | this hemisphere was sleeping when you said that :P | 20:58 |
| nikhil__ | 15UTC works for me | 20:58 |
| markwash | there are people who totally can't make it b/c of the time | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | markwash: agreed | 20:59 |
| markwash | does 1/month sound okay? | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | +1 | 20:59 |
| markwash | we can do a trial for the first meeting in june, maybe | 20:59 |
| markwash | or next week if the need is more urgent | 20:59 |
| jbresnah | i am meeting time flexible | 20:59 |
| markwash | jbresnah is on a beautiful beach right now anyway | 21:00 |
| jbresnah | heh | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | haha | 21:00 |
| jbresnah | its so hard to type with all this sand in my keyboard | 21:00 |
| markwash | haha | 21:00 |
| nikhil__ | is the meeting over? | 21:01 |
| markwash | I guess so | 21:01 |
| nikhil__ | i mean in terms of discission? | 21:01 |
| markwash | anything else? | 21:01 |
| * markwash is a little distracted today, sorry | 21:01 | |
| rosmaita_ | markwash: did not split the upload/download BP yet | 21:01 |
| rosmaita_ | started 2 discussion etherpads first | 21:01 |
| markwash | links? | 21:02 |
| rosmaita_ | but, they appear to be unavailable at the moment | 21:02 |
| markwash | ah | 21:02 |
| rosmaita_ | links in BP | 21:02 |
| markwash | good, I'll have a look | 21:02 |
| * nikhil__ says bye | 21:02 | |
| markwash | I guess that's all for us today, folks | 21:02 |
| markwash | thanks! | 21:02 |
| flaper87 | cool | 21:02 |
| flaper87 | thanks | 21:02 |
| markwash | #endmeeting | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: savanna)" | 21:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 16 21:03:03 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2013/glance.2013-05-16-20.03.html | 21:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2013/glance.2013-05-16-20.03.txt | 21:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2013/glance.2013-05-16-20.03.log.html | 21:03 |
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