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| aignatov2 | Hi all! | 18:01 |
|---|---|---|
| aignatov2 | Savanna meeting will start in a few minutes | 18:01 |
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| aignatov2 | #startmeeting | 18:03 |
| openstack | aignatov2: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 18:03 |
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| aignatov2 | #startmeeting Savanna | 18:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 23 18:04:13 2013 UTC. The chair is aignatov2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Savanna)" | 18:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'savanna' | 18:04 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | We are working on extension and templates blueprints last week | 18:05 |
| aignatov2 | This week we updated bluprints related for Pluggable Provisioning Mechanism | 18:05 |
| aignatov2 | Now they have more details | 18:06 |
| aignatov2 | Nadya can you post links to this documents? | 18:06 |
| Nadya | yes, sure https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Savanna/PluggableProvisioning | 18:07 |
| Nadya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Savanna/PluggableProvisioning | 18:08 |
| Nadya | and the second updated wiki page is about Templates #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Savanna/Templates | 18:10 |
| aignatov2 | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Savanna/Templates | 18:10 |
| jmaron | I just posted some thoughts about templates to the savanna-all list | 18:10 |
| jmaron | I'd welcome comments/thoughts | 18:12 |
| aignatov2 | we are looking through it | 18:12 |
| jmaron | thanks! | 18:13 |
| aignatov2 | besides your mail Jon, I'd like to notice another items. | 18:17 |
| akuznetsov | such parameters can be place at cluster config, not at a node group config | 18:18 |
| aignatov2 | We are mostly finished with instructions for diskimage-builder to construct images with Apache Hadoop inside | 18:18 |
| aignatov2 | It will support both Ubuntu and CentOS distros | 18:18 |
| akuznetsov | possibly we should add for cluster config a nested layout | 18:18 |
| akuznetsov | for example HDFS | 18:18 |
| akuznetsov | it should contain parameters applicable for all nodes in clusters | 18:19 |
| akuznetsov | e.g. replication factor | 18:19 |
| ErikB | In Jon's example on checkpoint.period, are you saying that this should be in the cluster config? | 18:20 |
| jmaron | I'm not sure what you mean. service configuration properties can be defined at both the cluster level as well as the node group level | 18:21 |
| jmaron | so any 'GENERAL" or service specific property can be specified at both cluster and node level | 18:21 |
| akuznetsov | for examples mapred child heap size is only applicable to the node group | 18:22 |
| mattf | aignatov2, when you have something even mostly working re diskimage-builder, fire it my way. i'll take it for a test drive through RDO. fyi, i still think you should check the recipe into the savanna.git repo. | 18:22 |
| jmaron | it can be specified globally at the cluster, but overridden at the node level if desired | 18:22 |
| jmaron | if specified at the cluster, it's essentailly a global default | 18:22 |
| aignatov2 | mattf, we just have some troubles with DIB and not well tested it | 18:24 |
| aignatov2 | sometimes clusters are not working with it :) | 18:24 |
| aignatov2 | mostly it is the same DIB elements which I sent you last week) | 18:25 |
| ruhe | mattf, we're going to create a new repo in stackforge for all the tools we build for Savanna | 18:25 |
| mattf | if they aren't working in that the instance doesn't get a vm priv ip, i found a fix for that. i needed it to get ubuntu instances running on rdo. | 18:25 |
| mattf | ruhe, what's the hesitation for including the image creation in the savanna repo? | 18:26 |
| jmaron | in our view the user would have a cluster configuration panel and a node group configuration panel. In both instances the same properties can be specified. they'll end up in a cluster or node group template. In both cases, they'd be associated to a "GENERAL" groping or a service grouping | 18:27 |
| ruhe | mattf, we would like keep current repo only for savanna core. savanna-python-client, savanna-horizon-plugin will be separate projects. that's how all the OS projects manage additional components | 18:27 |
| aignatov2 | mattf, I think these scripts are the separate project like savanna-pythonclient, savanna-horizon etc | 18:27 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ruhe +1 | 18:28 |
| mattf | currently there's a tight coupling between what the image and savanna-api. until there's a cleaner separation, it seems wise to keep the two together. the hope is they'll more easily be kept in sync. | 18:29 |
| akuznetsov | but node group can override parameters like replication factor | 18:29 |
| akuznetsov | in you case | 18:30 |
| mattf | take for instance the default root password. if it's changed in the image builder it must also be changed in savanna-api. best to do it as a unit in one repo. | 18:30 |
| aignatov2 | in the future we may have more scripts and instructions, elements and so forth, and savanna repo is an independent project with it's integration tests, for instance | 18:30 |
| dmitryme | Jon, in your model user can redefine a property like HDFS replication factor in Node Group | 18:30 |
| ruhe | mattf, we're definitely going to decouple these things in ongoing implementation of plugins | 18:30 |
| aignatov2 | mattf, root password is a temporary solution, we plan to reset it after deployment for security reasons | 18:31 |
| jmaron | akuznetsov: yes. do you object to that capability? | 18:31 |
| aignatov2 | in the duture releases | 18:31 |
| dmitryme | this looks like a way to shoot in ones foot | 18:31 |
| aignatov2 | *future | 18:31 |
| jmaron | Ot | 18:31 |
| akuznetsov | yes because the replication factor is cluster parameter | 18:31 |
| jmaron | ok. I suppose we could add the scope parameter for such properties | 18:32 |
| mattf | root pw is just a specific example. w/o defined expectations between savanna-api <-> instance, we risk the two getting out of sync if they live apart. | 18:32 |
| ruhe | mattf, there is already set of integration tests we run on each commit. we'll know that something is wrong instantly :) | 18:33 |
| mattf | so i propose keeping them together, until the time there's a well defined interface, or they're entirely stable. | 18:33 |
| ErikB | akuznetsov - do you see the issue that was brought up by Jon on the property collision that is possible in the current proposal? | 18:33 |
| mattf | ruhe, do those integration tests build a new image for testing w/ or use a stock image? | 18:34 |
| dmitryme | Erik, sure we see it | 18:34 |
| jmaron | that was just one example. there are others as well. we believe the correct grouping is at a service level | 18:34 |
| akuznetsov | yes we see it | 18:34 |
| dmitryme | actually we were thinking to avoid it in the following way: | 18:34 |
| dmitryme | when plugin specifies config applicable_target="service:hdfs", we demonstrate it in the UI once in Node Group | 18:35 |
| jmaron | to be clear: properties are defined as associated to services or general, scoped to node or cluster | 18:35 |
| jmaron | it would also have to be presented only once at the cluster level, if applicable | 18:36 |
| dmitryme | i.e. the do not going to provide user a way to specify it twice in a single Node Group | 18:36 |
| dmitryme | Jon, yep, for cluster as well | 18:37 |
| ruhe | mattf, currently we don't build images for each commit. but i think that in a couple of weeks we'll have image-builder decoupled from any hard-code | 18:38 |
| jmaron | that would fix that issue, but I'm wondering about the templates: would properties still be grouped by component? | 18:38 |
| Nadya | component = process? | 18:40 |
| dmitryme | Jon, component is "task tracker", "datanode", right? | 18:40 |
| jmaron | yes | 18:40 |
| dmitryme | aha, I see | 18:40 |
| mattf | ruhe, how would you do an integration test that involves image creation if the integration test is for savanna-api (lives w/ savanna-api repo) and the image creation lives in a separate repo? | 18:40 |
| dmitryme | Jon, we want some properties to be grouped by process (like processes heap sizes) and some - by service (like fs.checkpoint.dir) | 18:43 |
| jmaron | the problem is that we actually don't even have that information in most instances. Hadoop configuration is essentially service based, so there is actually no documentation about the component/process association. we've spoken to internal developers, and the indication is that that would be a fairly significant documentation effort that isn't planned currently | 18:45 |
| jmaron | so there are two fundamental problems: 1. grouping by component isn't generally done by hadoop and 2. the information isn't even available | 18:46 |
| jmaron | but as UI developers, given the information associated with the config object, you can make some design decisions (pagination, filtering, etc) to make a usable interface. Trying to make the hadoop model align with the UI requirements is not the way to do that, IMHO | 18:47 |
| ruhe | mattf, that's a good question. i think we should have a pool of images. i understand your point, but we really want to keep savanna similar to other OS projects. for instance, every project has python client which is kept separate from the main code. and at the same time python client can be used internally to handle requests from Horizon UI | 18:50 |
| mattf | ruhe, python client makes sense. it forces you to have a stable API for each project/repo. i think it's premature to say the image & savanna-api is stable enough to live apart. it's also not entirely clear to me that there's major motivation to stabilize that interface right now. | 18:51 |
| mattf | consider keeping them together for now. in any event, i'm keen to try it out asap. i've the email instructions to work from atm, would love a repo to work with too -- i'm guessing there will be rdo specific changes i'll have to make. | 18:53 |
| ruhe | mattf, sure. we'll try to get that repo asap | 18:54 |
| Nadya | Jon, an example. we have 2 mashines: big and small. We run a service mapred. So it appears 2 process tt on 1st and on 2nd. It have different amount of tasks to which may be processed | 18:56 |
| Nadya | so we need to configure that on 1st machine we may run 10 tasks and on second - 5. But it is the one service | 18:57 |
| Nadya | *map tasks | 18:58 |
| jmaron | I'm not sure you can even do that based on the selection of one flavor per node group. How do you propose to have different machine sizes as part of the same node group? | 18:58 |
| jmaron | so in this case, you'd define a big machine group of one, a small machine group of one, and configure the service parameters for each accordingly | 18:59 |
| Nadya | service may be ran on 2 machines which belong to different node groups | 18:59 |
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| kgriffs | hey folks | 19:01 |
| aignatov2 | guys, we are out of time | 19:01 |
| jmaron | in that case you can specify cluster level parameters for the service as default values, and then node group overrides per node | 19:01 |
| jmaron | node group | 19:01 |
| aignatov2 | #endmeeting savanna | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 23 19:01:21 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:01 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/savanna/2013/savanna.2013-05-23-18.04.html | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/savanna/2013/savanna.2013-05-23-18.04.txt | 19:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/savanna/2013/savanna.2013-05-23-18.04.log.html | 19:01 |
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| dmitryme | guys lets move our conversation into #savanna channel | 19:01 |
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| kgriffs | so, just waiting a minute to see if flaper87 is going to make it | 19:04 |
| malini | ok | 19:04 |
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| oz_akan | hi | 19:09 |
| kgriffs | yo | 19:09 |
| oz_akan | :) | 19:09 |
| kgriffs | just waiting for a couple folks | 19:09 |
| kgriffs | give it one more minute | 19:09 |
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| kgriffs | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Marconi#Agenda | 19:10 |
| kgriffs | #startmeeting marconi | 19:10 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 23 19:10:44 2013 UTC. The chair is kgriffs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:10 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 19:10 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'marconi' | 19:10 |
| kgriffs | #topic bugs | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 19:10 | |
| kgriffs | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/marconi | 19:11 |
| kgriffs | so, Flavio and I have started chipping away at some of these | 19:11 |
| kgriffs | malini: anything in this list you would like to highlight? | 19:11 |
| kgriffs | I was thinking we could just prioritize the undecided real quick | 19:12 |
| kgriffs | so, sorting by number ,descending | 19:13 |
| kgriffs | random 404's - would you say that's high or critical? | 19:13 |
| malini | high as in - when will it be fixed? | 19:14 |
| kgriffs | I'd say, how important it is to get this done for a "beta" release | 19:14 |
| malini | It is important to get this one fixed | 19:14 |
| kgriffs | seems like this one is a blocker for load testing | 19:15 |
| malini | The 404s spike up when the number of users is large | 19:15 |
| malini | yes | 19:15 |
| malini | I have been able to repro thos only with tsung | 19:15 |
| kgriffs | ok, but it isn't like a hole in our feature implementation, like some of the others | 19:15 |
| kgriffs | how about "high" for priority? | 19:16 |
| malini | works for me | 19:16 |
| kgriffs | next | 19:16 |
| kgriffs | https://bugs.launchpad.net/marconi/+bug/1177979 | 19:16 |
| kgriffs | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/marconi/+bug/1177979 | 19:16 |
| kgriffs | I think medium is OK here | 19:17 |
| malini | yeap | 19:17 |
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| * kgriffs does that | 19:17 | |
| kgriffs | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/marconi/+bug/1177976 | 19:17 |
| kgriffs | same here, methinks | 19:17 |
| kgriffs | ditto for the next | 19:18 |
| malini | tht got me thinking- so max msg size per request will be 4kb 8 50 ? | 19:18 |
| kgriffs | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/marconi/+bug/1177971 | 19:18 |
| malini | ** 4kb * 50 ? | 19:18 |
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| kgriffs | max request body, you mean? | 19:18 |
| malini | yes.. | 19:18 |
| malini | guess it'll have to be | 19:18 |
| kgriffs | that's right, plus a little overhead | 19:18 |
| malini | ok | 19:18 |
| kgriffs | for 2000 simultaneous requests, that comes out to be around 400 MB | 19:19 |
| malini | ok | 19:19 |
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| kgriffs | if we up that limit, to 64K then we definitely need to support streaming deserialization of the JSON (right now everything is buffered since we just use json.read) | 19:20 |
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| kgriffs | (BTW) | 19:20 |
| kgriffs | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/marconi/+bug/1177952 | 19:21 |
| kgriffs | medium on that as well | 19:21 |
| malini | yeap | 19:21 |
| kgriffs | although some of these things have security consequences. | 19:21 |
| kgriffs | I'm not saying we don't need to get them done for the gold release, just trying to see where to focus for a beta | 19:21 |
| kgriffs | OK, so I'll set input validation bugs to medium | 19:22 |
| malini | none of these are show stoppers | 19:22 |
| kgriffs | Oh, here's one | 19:22 |
| kgriffs | https://bugs.launchpad.net/marconi/+bug/1165102 | 19:22 |
| malini | tht one could be a high | 19:23 |
| kgriffs | we better get that done for beta since it's spec'd in the API | 19:23 |
| malini | agreed | 19:23 |
| kgriffs | is there a blueprint for modifying the syntax to using query param instead? | 19:23 |
| * kgriffs looking | 19:23 | |
| kgriffs | I guess that just falls under v1-api | 19:24 |
| kgriffs | so, anyone have an objection to changing this: | 19:24 |
| malini | not me | 19:25 |
| kgriffs | cool | 19:25 |
| kgriffs | so it would look something like: | 19:25 |
| kgriffs | myqueue/messages?ids=[95109,142358,1243098] | 19:26 |
| kgriffs | is OK? | 19:26 |
| malini | are we also going to change how the location is returned when we post multiple messages? | 19:27 |
| kgriffs | yes | 19:27 |
| malini | cool | 19:27 |
| kgriffs | it would have to follow suit | 19:27 |
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| kgriffs | #agreed change get list of specific messages URL to put IDs in a query string param, vs. as the resource name in the path | 19:28 |
| kgriffs | OK, all set with bugs? | 19:28 |
| kgriffs | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/marconi | 19:28 |
| malini | yes | 19:28 |
| kgriffs | #topic QA cluster | 19:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "QA cluster (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 19:29 | |
| kgriffs | oz_akan: I can haz updatez? | 19:29 |
| oz_akan | sure | 19:29 |
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| oz_akan | new test environment is almost ready, except marconi configuration which we will do after the meeting with Malini | 19:30 |
| kgriffs | OK | 19:30 |
| kgriffs | excellent | 19:30 |
| kgriffs | one thought | 19:30 |
| oz_akan | so we have web and mongodb configuration under Salt and I will soon create a git repo for that | 19:30 |
| kgriffs | OK | 19:30 |
| kgriffs | where will that repo live? | 19:30 |
| oz_akan | I am working on documenting it | 19:30 |
| oz_akan | that is a question, I would ask to you | 19:30 |
| kgriffs | mordred: ping | 19:31 |
| kgriffs | mordred: ^^^ | 19:31 |
| kgriffs | I'm not sure. I think of it as a reference for deploying, but other people might want to do it in chef or puppet | 19:32 |
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| kgriffs | hey vkmc_ | 19:33 |
| oz_akan | sure, salt is in python so I think it will be adapted by openstack sooner or later | 19:33 |
| kgriffs | oz_akan - maybe ask in #openstack-infra ? | 19:33 |
| vkmc_ | hey kgriffs! | 19:33 |
| oz_akan | I think infrastructure people are even open to port all puppet to salt | 19:33 |
| oz_akan | yes I asked yesterrday | 19:33 |
| malini | there is a ci-salt repo in stackforge..But hasnt been updated in a while | 19:33 |
| kgriffs | oic | 19:33 |
| kgriffs | i mean, you can ask whether this repo should live under stackforge or just under rackspace org or something | 19:34 |
| kgriffs | wow, I didn't realize salt was taking over the world. :D | 19:35 |
| kgriffs | hey, if that happens, you can contribute to updating etherpad.openstack.org | 19:35 |
| kgriffs | (nudge nudge, wink wink) | 19:35 |
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| kgriffs | ok, so that's great you've made so much progress | 19:35 |
| kgriffs | I can't wait to have a real cluster to hammer. :D | 19:36 |
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| kgriffs | at that point, we should also give out the info to the community so they can try it out, write non-python client libs, etc. | 19:36 |
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| oz_akan | yes | 19:37 |
| kgriffs | #oz_akan to send out a not to dev list inviting people to pummel our QA/reference deployment | 19:37 |
| kgriffs | let me try that again | 19:37 |
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| kgriffs | Â to send out a not to dev list inviting people to pummel our QA/reference deployment | 19:37 |
| oz_akan | I am working on a document about it | 19:37 |
| kgriffs | crap | 19:37 |
| kgriffs | #action oz_akan to send out a not to dev list inviting people to pummel our QA/reference deployment | 19:37 |
| kgriffs | oz_akan: perfect. | 19:37 |
| kgriffs | ok | 19:38 |
| kgriffs | one more thing I thought of earlier today | 19:38 |
| kgriffs | it would be great to have hardening in there already if not done already | 19:38 |
| oz_akan | not done yet | 19:39 |
| kgriffs | could be a subsequent release of the salt states | 19:39 |
| oz_akan | it is more like having the service up | 19:39 |
| oz_akan | sure | 19:39 |
| oz_akan | that is the point | 19:39 |
| kgriffs | sounds like a plan | 19:39 |
| kgriffs | can you also add HAVAGE to that | 19:40 |
| kgriffs | ? | 19:40 |
| oz_akan | what is HAVAGE? | 19:40 |
| kgriffs | http://www.issihosts.com/haveged/ | 19:40 |
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| kgriffs | virtualized guests generally have poor entropy | 19:41 |
| kgriffs | so they need a little help | 19:41 |
| oz_akan | ok you need this package to be installed? | 19:41 |
| * kgriffs trying to get used to using the meetbot commands | 19:41 | |
| kgriffs | #link http://www.issihosts.com/haveged/ | 19:41 |
| kgriffs | correct | 19:41 |
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| kgriffs | I think it can contribute entropy to /dev/urandom - not sure if that happens by default | 19:42 |
| mordred | kgriffs: pong | 19:44 |
| kgriffs | mordred: hey, oz_akan was wondering where his salt scripts for Marconi should live. I'll let him explain. :) | 19:44 |
| mordred | ah - gotcha | 19:44 |
| mordred | I think at the moment they would make sense to put into a stackforge project | 19:45 |
| oz_akan | "marconi-salt" would be a good repo name | 19:45 |
| oz_akan | or we could have it as a folder under marconi | 19:46 |
| oz_akan | but that might slow down things | 19:46 |
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| kgriffs | if it goes in stackforge does it get wired up to gerrit & friends? | 19:48 |
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| kgriffs | oz_akan: can you follow up with mordred? | 19:50 |
| kgriffs | (we need to move on) | 19:50 |
| kgriffs | #action oz_akan to find a home for marconi-salt | 19:50 |
| oz_akan | kgriffs: ok | 19:50 |
| kgriffs | one more thing on the topic of security. Do you have some hardening guides handy? | 19:51 |
| kgriffs | I've referenced NSA before, but didn't see RHEL 6 yet. | 19:51 |
| kgriffs | #link http://www.issihosts.com/haveged/ | 19:51 |
| oz_akan | guess, pasted wrong link | 19:52 |
| kgriffs | sorry | 19:52 |
| kgriffs | wrong link | 19:52 |
| kgriffs | #link http://serverfault.com/questions/368055/anything-close-to-an-nsa-guide-for-securing-rhel-6 | 19:52 |
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| kgriffs | anyway, something to keep on your radar | 19:53 |
| kgriffs | moving right along... | 19:53 |
| oz_akan | kgriffs: this is kind of at the very end of my todo list, next I want to create Malini's benchmarking environment | 19:53 |
| oz_akan | ok got that | 19:53 |
| kgriffs | makes sense | 19:53 |
| kgriffs | looking at the agenda, we'll skip down to polling modes, since the others I'd like to get flaper87's thoughts on and he couldn't make it | 19:55 |
| kgriffs | #topic •BP: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-marconiclient/+spec/polling-modes in the client | 19:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "•BP: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-marconiclient/+spec/polling-modes in the client (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 19:55 | |
| kgriffs | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-marconiclient/+spec/polling-modes | 19:55 |
| kgriffs | vkmc_: thoughts? | 19:55 |
| kgriffs | I guess this is assuming there is a blocking/greenlet-aware polling loop | 19:56 |
| * kgriffs watches a tumbleweed roll by | 19:57 | |
| vkmc_ | kgriffs, not much I can suggest now, I'm from my phone just to keep up with the meeting :) | 19:59 |
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| kgriffs | no worries | 19:59 |
| kgriffs | just mostly wanted to raise awareness of that, since it is something we want to promote | 19:59 |
| kgriffs | OK, we are out of time folks | 20:00 |
| kgriffs | parting thoughts? | 20:00 |
| malini | bye bye :) | 20:00 |
| kgriffs | ok, thanks everyone | 20:00 |
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| kgriffs | next week, same bat-time, same bat-channel. | 20:00 |
| kgriffs | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 23 20:00:59 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-05-23-19.10.html | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-05-23-19.10.txt | 20:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-05-23-19.10.log.html | 20:01 |
| vkmc_ | kgriffs, I'll make some progress on that this afternoon | 20:01 |
| kgriffs | cool, thx | 20:01 |
| kgriffs | vkmc_: what timezone are you in? | 20:01 |
| vkmc_ | Cheers | 20:01 |
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| markwash | glance folks around? | 20:02 |
| * jbresnah is | 20:02 | |
| rosmaita | yo! | 20:02 |
| esheffield | 'sup | 20:02 |
| iccha | hola | 20:02 |
| ashwini | hi | 20:02 |
| markwash | #startmeeting glance | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 23 20:02:43 2013 UTC. The chair is markwash. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'glance' | 20:02 |
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| markwash | Agenda for today | 20:03 |
| markwash | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Glance | 20:03 |
| markwash | #topic new blueprints | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "new blueprints (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:03 | |
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| markwash | first thing I wanted to mention is a sheepdog store | 20:04 |
| markwash | I don't know if folks are familiar, but sheepdog is a block/object store, some folks want to use for storing images | 20:04 |
| markwash | I was looking around for a blueprint we could approve, but couldn't find one | 20:04 |
| markwash | here is the code so far https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29961/ | 20:05 |
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| ameade | i'm here now | 20:05 |
| markwash | worth a look | 20:05 |
| markwash | maybe we should ask Liu to make a bp, or maybe its not a big deal | 20:05 |
| iccha | its good to have ppl interested in contributing and writing code for new stores, but +1 on bp required | 20:05 |
| markwash | anybody see any reason not to add a sheepdog store? the code in the review looks like it is progressing nicely | 20:05 |
| ameade | i'm cool with it, don't even care if there is a bp | 20:06 |
| markwash | one thing I keep thinking about is | 20:06 |
| markwash | in the long run, should we offer better support for drivers living outside of the code base? | 20:06 |
| westmaas | yes | 20:07 |
| jbresnah | it seems good to me | 20:07 |
| ameade | markwash: ideally | 20:07 |
| esheffield | I was about to say something along those lines | 20:07 |
| jbresnah | one thing tho... | 20:07 |
| markwash | these backends we're getting are great, but glance core doesn't necessarily have the resources to test them | 20:07 |
| jbresnah | there is always the debate about having plugins part of the distro or not | 20:07 |
| jbresnah | like, it gets contributed and then the expertise goes away | 20:07 |
| jbresnah | and maintaining it is hard | 20:07 |
| jbresnah | probably good to have an easy path to include your backend store without it being part of glance proper. | 20:08 |
| esheffield | maybe openstack needs a "user contrib" area for collecting things like this for people to find, but aren't part of the official distro | 20:08 |
| jbresnah | yeah something like that would be good | 20:08 |
| markwash | I think we maybe could have Glance provide a testing framework for what-have-you backends | 20:08 |
| ameade | what are the exact benefits and is it worth our time? | 20:09 |
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| markwash | so this might be a concern folks should start to chatter about | 20:09 |
| jbresnah | that would be good. to vet a driver | 20:09 |
| markwash | I don't see it in our really near-term future | 20:09 |
| jbresnah | nod | 20:09 |
| markwash | cool, I've already asked for a blueprint for sheepdog, and I'll mark it approved when I see one (as long as its not somehow crazy) | 20:10 |
| markwash | next item. . . | 20:10 |
| markwash | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/image-error-state-management | 20:11 |
| markwash | error state management | 20:11 |
| markwash | this one was recently added by our good friend ameade | 20:11 |
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| markwash | and triggered some interest from folks who are tired of being confused when their snapshot fails | 20:11 |
| markwash | not trying to dig into the details, here, yet | 20:12 |
| markwash | but I think it might make sense for more folks to take a look offline | 20:12 |
| markwash | I'm inclined to accept things we can to improve the experience with failed uploads, while maintaining backwards compatibility | 20:12 |
| markwash | one more pair of items for new blueprints | 20:13 |
| nikhil | markwash: a comment on your reply to the bp .. | 20:13 |
| markwash | nikhil: go for it | 20:13 |
| nikhil | can we just check the checksum? | 20:13 |
| nikhil | no? | 20:13 |
| markwash | maybe in some cases, however, I think sometimes the image gets deleted immediately on a failure | 20:14 |
| markwash | so there wouldn't be anything to check | 20:14 |
| nikhil | migth be easier in case of copy_from (raw data) might get complicate | 20:14 |
| nikhil | d in case of import on that (just completing thought) | 20:14 |
| nikhil | markwash: ah k | 20:14 |
| markwash | sure. . I think there's some possible synergy with the import export blueprints, which are next | 20:15 |
| markwash | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/new-download-workflow | 20:15 |
| markwash | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/new-upload-workflow | 20:15 |
| ameade | markwash: really in this bp I care about the use cases and not the proposed solution | 20:15 |
| ameade | does it make sense to change the bp to not propose a solution? | 20:16 |
| ameade | or does that make it a really fancy bug? | 20:16 |
| nikhil | tricky | 20:16 |
| markwash | ameade, might be a good idea, but I'm not worried | 20:16 |
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| markwash | rosmaita sent out an email about the upload and download workflows (some might say import and export) | 20:17 |
| ameade | i'm assuming we will touch on when we want to solve this in the upload/download discussion? | 20:17 |
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| markwash | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-May/009385.html | 20:17 |
| markwash | ameade: its possible we can help out with the solution separately from upload/download changes | 20:18 |
| markwash | I guess its kind of up to whoever writes the code and reviewers :-) | 20:18 |
| ameade | markwash: that's true lol | 20:18 |
| markwash | I just want to make sure we preserve backwards compat :-) | 20:18 |
| nikhil | markwash: well, i was under the impression both were diff (where import was upload+convert) | 20:18 |
| markwash | nikhil: I was under the same impression, but I think if you read into the specs its clear that import/export are whats being discussed | 20:19 |
| markwash | nikhil: but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if I was wrong about that and missed something :-D | 20:19 |
| nikhil | :) | 20:19 |
| rosmaita | which specs are you talking about? | 20:19 |
| rosmaita | up/down? | 20:19 |
| markwash | yup | 20:19 |
| nikhil | anything works, as long as we've some concensus on how we'r handling the image standards | 20:20 |
| nikhil | i mean vhd qcow2 etc | 20:20 |
| rosmaita | they don't require conversion, but they leave open an easy way to include that | 20:20 |
| rosmaita | for import, as part of the "verification" step | 20:20 |
| rosmaita | for export, whatever we want to call the "scrubbing" | 20:20 |
| markwash | oh, yes | 20:21 |
| markwash | sorry | 20:21 |
| markwash | okay, maybe I'm on the same page as rosmaita, and not nikhil | 20:21 |
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| markwash | and was just confused a moment ago | 20:21 |
| rosmaita | np, not sure how clear that was in the spec | 20:21 |
| markwash | import -> bits & metadata can change | 20:21 |
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| iccha | so our plan is to let the idea soak in and see what else ppl have to say in mailing list? | 20:21 |
| markwash | for whatever purpose (verification, conversion, something else) | 20:21 |
| markwash | well, for me, I love these spec | 20:22 |
| markwash | specs | 20:22 |
| markwash | and I think it makes sense to start breaking ground | 20:22 |
| markwash | I am interested to take a poll here in this meeting to see if folks have concerns about the specs, or if they want more time to consider things | 20:22 |
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| rosmaita | i have one more ... the image cloning one | 20:23 |
| rosmaita | not complete though, but i use the "image-action" resource | 20:23 |
| jbresnah | I am good with those specs, but so much of it depends on async workers (in my mind) and that does not yet seem worked out | 20:24 |
| markwash | rosmaita: I was wondering, do we get cloning for free with image import? | 20:24 |
| nikhil | (has anyone got a chance to look at the etherpad for asycn workers?) | 20:24 |
| nikhil | pls ignore if this is not the topic of discussion | 20:24 |
| rosmaita | not for free, i don't think | 20:24 |
| markwash | rosmaita: if we define glance in another region as the source of the import | 20:24 |
| markwash | perhaps I was wrong | 20:25 |
| rosmaita | markwash: i hav eto think, i think it requires more glance-to-glance coordination | 20:25 |
| markwash | nikhil: you and jbresnah bring up a good point. it seems like the first step here is still async workers | 20:25 |
| nikhil | markwash: we'r just worried about the grusome implementation details for cloning being incorporated as copy_from | 20:25 |
| markwash | nikhil: that's a good concern to have | 20:26 |
| nikhil | :) | 20:26 |
| markwash | nikhil: I think we're free to redefine how copy_from looks in the api for v2 (since it does not exist there yet TMK) | 20:26 |
| nikhil | sounds good | 20:26 |
| nikhil | so do you wanna start with that or from workers for that specifically? | 20:27 |
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| markwash | well, it sounds like we don't have any surpises here about upload/download, so I think we can move on | 20:27 |
| nikhil | darn the stmnt looks complicated | 20:27 |
| markwash | I'd appreciate it if any folks here want to chime in on the ML | 20:27 |
| markwash | just to keep the late-game surprises to a minimum | 20:27 |
| markwash | lets talk about bugs for a minute | 20:28 |
| markwash | #topic bugs! | 20:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs! (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:28 | |
| markwash | folks, I have not been paying enough attention to bugs | 20:28 |
| markwash | I think we might be out of the post-summit bp triage glut | 20:29 |
| markwash | so maybe we can start taking on bugs as a group? | 20:29 |
| * jbresnah has been slacking on bugs lately | 20:29 | |
| jbresnah | +1 | 20:29 |
| iccha | +1 | 20:29 |
| ameade | you mean triaging as a group? | 20:29 |
| markwash | ameade: just bringing up the difficult ones | 20:30 |
| markwash | I think we can make our way through most as a matter of just personal attention | 20:30 |
| markwash | with that in mind, does anyone have any bugs they're worried about right now? | 20:30 |
| markwash | I have https://bugs.launchpad.net/glance/+bug/1155389 | 20:31 |
| ameade | https://bugs.launchpad.net/glance/+bug/1069979 | 20:31 |
| ameade | is the one I posted still true? | 20:31 |
| markwash | ameade: I'm worried about that one too | 20:31 |
| markwash | ameade: I think we need to double check to verify | 20:31 |
| markwash | ameade: I assume that I originally marked it "invalid" for a good reason | 20:32 |
| markwash | but that assumption may be wrong. . | 20:32 |
| * markwash marksmash | 20:32 | |
| ameade | hehe | 20:32 |
| markwash | we need a bugbot in this channel | 20:33 |
| markwash | ameade: can you look into that bug some more? | 20:33 |
| ameade | sure you can action it to me | 20:33 |
| markwash | #action ameade try to reproduce https://bugs.launchpad.net/glance/+bug/1069979 | 20:34 |
| markwash | ameade: thanks! | 20:34 |
| ameade | i'll confirm it if it's true | 20:34 |
| markwash | looks nasty if it is | 20:34 |
| markwash | and we could theoretically get in quick fix before havana 1 is released | 20:34 |
| iccha | hmm i think esheffield tried it recently tried it and it worked , but would be definitely worth checking through | 20:34 |
| markwash | #action markwash try to do some bug triage for a change | 20:35 |
| esheffield | I've been doing a lot of experimenting the last couple of days with image creates / uploads and they were working | 20:35 |
| ameade | i think taking a look at what the root issue described is would be good | 20:35 |
| esheffield | once I got the headers etc. right | 20:35 |
| esheffield | but didn't see that specific error | 20:35 |
| markwash | esheffield: we might need to ask him about what transport hes' using for notifications, too | 20:35 |
| ameade | to make sure it doesnt sneak back in somehow | 20:35 |
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| esheffield | yeah, that was just a plain vanilla devstack setup I was using | 20:35 |
| markwash | any other bugs people want to draw our collective attention to? | 20:36 |
| markwash | cool, lets move on to tracking some existing work | 20:37 |
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| markwash | #topic blueprints in progress | 20:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints in progress (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:37 | |
| markwash | there has been a lot of discussion of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/api-v2-property-protection | 20:37 |
| markwash | continuing in the etherpad | 20:37 |
| * markwash searches for link | 20:37 | |
| iccha | https://etherpad.openstack.org/public-glance-protected-props | 20:37 |
| iccha | markwash: ^^ | 20:38 |
| markwash | not sure if we're getting closer to breaking ground, but if not any delays are probably due to me being a jerk | 20:38 |
| markwash | the main issues right now are how to deal with collisions between protected properties and existing free-form properties | 20:39 |
| markwash | I think we'll probably have an update again next week | 20:39 |
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| iccha | the challenges being v2 api advocates flat hierarchy for properties | 20:40 |
| markwash | which means, lots of collisions! | 20:40 |
| markwash | :-( | 20:40 |
| markwash | nikhil: do you want to talk about async workers? | 20:40 |
| markwash | nikhil: and can you remind me of any links | 20:41 |
| markwash | ameade: ^^ I think I randomly assigned you to the async workers bp | 20:41 |
| jbresnah | there are some requirements on etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/havana-glance-requirements | 20:41 |
| nikhil | sure | 20:42 |
| nikhil | jbresnah: thanks | 20:42 |
| jbresnah | np | 20:42 |
| nikhil | markwash: was wondering if you got a change to browse through a get a picture | 20:42 |
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| nikhil | tho i might have been a bit late in getting everything there | 20:42 |
| markwash | nikhil: I don't think I quite follow what you are asking me | 20:43 |
| nikhil | also, haven't added the granular opinions on the requirements | 20:43 |
| ameade | man this async worker has a lot of responsibilities | 20:43 |
| nikhil | i was talking about https://etherpad.openstack.org/havana-glance-requirements | 20:43 |
| nikhil | markwash: ^^ | 20:43 |
| nikhil | ameade: yeah | 20:43 |
| iccha | do we have a list of must haves vs nice to haves? | 20:43 |
| markwash | nikhil: oh, okay | 20:43 |
| nikhil | i thought flavio was doing some kinda poc | 20:44 |
| markwash | nikhil what I'm seeing looks good to me | 20:44 |
| nikhil | markwash: ah k , though I feel like adding more details | 20:44 |
| jbresnah | iccha: must haves would be good | 20:44 |
| * ameade wishes we had an implemented workflow service | 20:44 | |
| nikhil | just dont want o step on peoples toes on what ideas are already out there | 20:44 |
| markwash | I think some simple POCs would be great things for making the next step | 20:44 |
| iccha | jbresnah: i agree that may help us focus | 20:44 |
| * markwash vaguely recalls promising some sort of POC of his own. . . | 20:45 | |
| iccha | did we reach any agreement about threads vs separate process.. | 20:45 |
| esheffield | there seems to be a lot of chatter related to workers in other projects as well | 20:45 |
| esheffield | wondering if openstack needs a general worker service of some sort | 20:45 |
| * ameade switches to openstack-meeting to ask if they are done with it yet | 20:45 | |
| jbresnah | iccha: i think we didnt get that far into impl | 20:45 |
| esheffield | feels like there may be a lot of "wheel reinventing" about to happen | 20:45 |
| ameade | can threads handle some of these heavyweight usecases? | 20:46 |
| markwash | iccha: I still feel great about making it a deployment config option (greenthreads vs other processes) | 20:46 |
| nikhil | markwash: +1 | 20:46 |
| markwash | esheffield: this wheel might not be as old or universal | 20:46 |
| markwash | but maybe it is and I just don't get it yet | 20:46 |
| nikhil | markwash: may be even services (besides threads and processes) | 20:47 |
| markwash | esheffield: though I guess it does all feel kind of like celery | 20:47 |
| * nikhil waits for a hurray from jbresnah | 20:47 | |
| jbresnah | nod celery | 20:47 |
| esheffield | markwash: yeah, I've been looking more at celery | 20:47 |
| jbresnah | but i would like to be able to have a simple impl too | 20:47 |
| markwash | do we have any takers on a POC / straw man code? | 20:47 |
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| markwash | or should I just follow up with flaper87? | 20:47 |
| jbresnah | it is not worth forcing everything through amqp messaging | 20:48 |
| jbresnah | nd nikhil | 20:48 |
| nikhil | markwash: i would like to try that, if we'r not focusing on getting it before h1 | 20:48 |
| markwash | jbresnah: agree, especially when it can save deployers the trouble of making a change if they don't particularly care about the new async features | 20:48 |
| esheffield | celery does seem to support a "webhooks" approach as well, so maybe not everything thru amqp | 20:48 |
| jbresnah | I would still like to see the first thing be an interface definition for a worker | 20:48 |
| markwash | nikhil: cool, go for it. . it won't hurt to have more than one if flaper87 is already working on one too | 20:49 |
| jbresnah | esheffield: but i would like to even support thtreads, fork, multiprocessing potentially | 20:49 |
| nikhil | cool, i'll follow up with him too | 20:49 |
| markwash | #action nikhil work on a proof of concept for processing | 20:49 |
| markwash | I may look into that POC as well | 20:49 |
| nikhil | #action nikhil what mark said | 20:49 |
| markwash | no promises | 20:49 |
| jbresnah | nikhil: can the first step be an interface deifnition for a service? | 20:49 |
| nikhil | :) | 20:50 |
| markwash | jbresnah: +1 | 20:50 |
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| * markwash <3s interfaces | 20:50 | |
| iccha | 10 minutes | 20:50 |
| markwash | iccha makes a good point | 20:50 |
| nikhil | oh yeah | 20:50 |
| iccha | i want to bring up something thats why :p | 20:50 |
| markwash | iccha for open discussion? | 20:50 |
| iccha | yeah | 20:51 |
| markwash | cool | 20:51 |
| markwash | #topic open discussion | 20:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:51 | |
| markwash | iccha you go first | 20:51 |
| jbresnah | I have something too, but I yield to the representative from rackspace | 20:51 |
| iccha | we have oft and on talked about soft deletes, where we want to keep them if it would be great to take a look at alternative approaches than existing one | 20:51 |
| iccha | *whther | 20:51 |
| jbresnah | +1 | 20:52 |
| markwash | +1 | 20:52 |
| jbresnah | it seems that glance developers are on the same page there | 20:52 |
| jbresnah | but not so much the users | 20:52 |
| markwash | from where I'm sitting, I'd love to see us fix the admin uuid reuse issue first | 20:52 |
| markwash | and then draw up a deprecation plan for getting rid of soft deletes | 20:52 |
| jbresnah | +1 uuid | 20:52 |
| ameade | someone please describe the use cases that caused soft deletes to happen | 20:52 |
| ameade | in the first place | 20:53 |
| jbresnah | ameade: agreed | 20:53 |
| jbresnah | ameade: we tried to tease it out on the mailing lists but pretty much failed | 20:53 |
| markwash | ameade: the use case is "as a glance developer, I want to copy and paste nova's (oslos) db models, to save work" | 20:53 |
| iccha | rosmaita: had good use cases for why we need soft deletes | 20:53 |
| * markwash turns his sarcasm back off :-) | 20:53 | |
| iccha | so we can look at alternative approaches if he manages to convince us :) | 20:53 |
| jbresnah | heh | 20:53 |
| ameade | markwash: i figured that was why | 20:54 |
| ameade | :P | 20:54 |
| rosmaita | well, suppose i make an image and put a lot of package info into the metadata | 20:54 |
| jbresnah | markwash: but if that is the reason it exists it is very helpful to know | 20:54 |
| rosmaita | and i want to find out what that was, even though the image was deleted in the mean tim | 20:54 |
| rosmaita | *time | 20:54 |
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| jbresnah | rosmaitia: i think that is a misuse tho | 20:54 |
| rosmaita | why? | 20:54 |
| jbresnah | rosmaitia: because glance only knows what the metadata is now | 20:55 |
| jbresnah | rosmaitia: it can change throughout the lifetime | 20:55 |
| jbresnah | looking up meta for a running instance give no gaurentee of consistancy | 20:55 |
| markwash | rosmaita: seems like a reasonable use case to me | 20:55 |
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| jbresnah | markwash: all that will give you is the metadata at the time of delete | 20:55 |
| markwash | rosmaita: we probably just need to figure out the right way to do that in the api, or through notifications or more structured logging | 20:55 |
| jbresnah | markwash: and that is only if updates are not allowed after delete | 20:55 |
| markwash | jbresnah: good points as well | 20:56 |
| rosmaita | ok, another use case would be if glance does a "changes-since" list like nova has | 20:56 |
| jbresnah | that is sort of the same usecase that was talked aobut on the mailing list | 20:56 |
| jbresnah | and i think it is trying to use glance as a hammer when it was designed to be a wrench | 20:56 |
| * jbresnah is not familiar with changes since | 20:57 | |
| markwash | (3 minutes) | 20:57 |
| rosmaita | lets you see your servers from a particular time, even deleted ones | 20:57 |
| ameade | changes-since is still auditing right? | 20:57 |
| iccha | here is another way to look at it, than getting rid of info; say if we err on side of keeping it and have a better way to soft delete. what do we lose? | 20:57 |
| jbresnah | rosmaita: so it takes all the changes and lets you get a view from any particular time? | 20:57 |
| rosmaita | right | 20:57 |
| markwash | can we take this discussion offline and hit a few more quick items? | 20:58 |
| jbresnah | rosmaita: sort of like version control (like git or whatever) would do? | 20:58 |
| iccha | go for it markwash | 20:58 |
| jbresnah | nod | 20:58 |
| markwash | next weeks meeting time | 20:58 |
| rosmaita | jbresnah: not as fine grained | 20:58 |
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| markwash | crap I forgot my suggested time options | 20:58 |
| iccha | 7 pm EST | 20:59 |
| nikhil | time buddy? | 20:59 |
| rosmaita | while mark is thinking, also, check out spec for clonning BP: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Glance-image-cloning | 20:59 |
| iccha | 4 am EST :p | 20:59 |
| markwash | oh yeah, that one | 20:59 |
| nikhil | looks funky rosmaita | 20:59 |
| markwash | I think 7 pm EST would be good for folks other than in europe | 21:00 |
| markwash | but flaper tends to stay up late anyway | 21:00 |
| iccha | *EDT | 21:00 |
| markwash | well, I'll send out an email | 21:00 |
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| markwash | since we're runnig out of time | 21:00 |
| nikhil | haha, prolly we'd talk in UTC | 21:00 |
| markwash | any quick thoughts on another bug / review squash day? | 21:00 |
| markwash | +1 ? | 21:00 |
| jbresnah | fridays work well for me for such things | 21:00 |
| jbresnah | +1 | 21:00 |
| iccha | +1 | 21:00 |
| rosmaita | +1, hope to help this time | 21:00 |
| ameade | +1 | 21:01 |
| esheffield | +1 | 21:01 |
| markwash | let's try for friday, unless its conflicts with the havana-1 release in a silly way | 21:01 |
| markwash | thanks everybody, in order not to anger the gods of timeliness, I'm going to close it out | 21:01 |
| iccha | is anything due for h1? | 21:01 |
| markwash | . . . nothing critical | 21:01 |
| markwash | we should probably start pushing harder on h2 deadlines though | 21:02 |
| markwash | as possible by the constraints of open source | 21:02 |
| markwash | Thanks everybody! | 21:02 |
| markwash | #endmeeting | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 23 21:02:31 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2013/glance.2013-05-23-20.02.html | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2013/glance.2013-05-23-20.02.txt | 21:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2013/glance.2013-05-23-20.02.log.html | 21:02 |
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