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| sergmelikyan | #startmeeting Murano | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Oct 28 15:00:10 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sergmelikyan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Murano)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'murano' | 15:00 |
| sergmelikyan | Welcome to Murano Project community meeting! | 15:00 |
| ogelbukh | hi sergmelikyan | 15:01 |
| rakhmerov | Hi! | 15:01 |
| ogelbukh | redthrux: o/ | 15:01 |
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| ogelbukh | oop | 15:01 |
| ogelbukh | s | 15:01 |
| akuznetsova | hello | 15:01 |
| sergmelikyan | Let's start with agenda :) | 15:01 |
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| ativelkov | hi guys | 15:01 |
| sergmelikyan | 1) Action Items's review | 15:01 |
| sergmelikyan | 2) Release 0.3 Status | 15:01 |
| sergmelikyan | 3) Quantum Integration issues | 15:02 |
| sergmelikyan | 4) LoadBalancer issues | 15:02 |
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| katyafervent | Hi! | 15:02 |
| tsufiev | hi there | 15:02 |
| sergmelikyan | #topic Review AI's | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review AI's (Meeting topic: Murano)" | 15:02 | |
| sergmelikyan | Last meeting summary is available here: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2013/murano.2013-10-21-15.00.html | 15:02 |
| gokrokve | Hi | 15:02 |
| ativelkov | I think we have just one AI from last meeting ) And its on me | 15:03 |
| sergmelikyan | We have only one AI assigned to Alexander Tivelkov: complete the "Per Environment Network Management" document | 15:03 |
| sergmelikyan | ativelkov, yep ) | 15:03 |
| sergmelikyan | Status? | 15:03 |
| ativelkov | Yap. It's done | 15:03 |
| sergmelikyan | link? | 15:03 |
| ativelkov | here it is: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Murano/Specifications/Network_Management | 15:03 |
| sergmelikyan | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Murano/Specifications/Network_Management "Per Environment Network Management" document | 15:04 |
| sergmelikyan | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Murano/Specifications/Network_Management "Per Environment Network Management" document | 15:04 |
| ativelkov | It may (and will) be improved to reflect our recent findings related to different neutron topology issues | 15:04 |
| ativelkov | but the general idea is reflected there | 15:04 |
| sergmelikyan | #topic Release 0.3 Status | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release 0.3 Status (Meeting topic: Murano)" | 15:04 | |
| sergmelikyan | As release manager for 0.3 i believe it is on me :) | 15:05 |
| tnurlygayanov | I suggest to create etherpad to discuss this document | 15:05 |
| katyafervent | Thank you, Alex, that's already pretty informative | 15:05 |
| sergmelikyan | tnurlygayanov, we need discussion? | 15:05 |
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| ativelkov | we may want to discuss various changes related to different neutron deployment scenarios | 15:06 |
| tnurlygayanov | yes | 15:06 |
| tnurlygayanov | because we should support different quantum configurations | 15:07 |
| ativelkov | So, I'll create an ether pad to reflect that idea. But if somebody has any questions on the current vision - feel free to create Etherpad yourselves | 15:07 |
| sergmelikyan | #action ativelkov, Create collaborative document for "Per Environment Network Management" document | 15:07 |
| ativelkov | ok ) | 15:07 |
| sergmelikyan | Let's return to release 0.3 :) | 15:07 |
| tnurlygayanov | ok, what the status of this release? what we should do beforethe release date? ) | 15:08 |
| sergmelikyan | We finished all features for release 0.3, encountered issue with Heat (load balancer related) that we can't fix in this release. | 15:09 |
| tnurlygayanov | ok, feature freeze for this release ) need to test and check on different OpenStack installations... | 15:10 |
| tnurlygayanov | we have many fixes for SSL configuration in this release | 15:10 |
| sergmelikyan | We going to discuss this issue later, and we only have to finish documentation changes for release-0.3 and prepare custom patches for Heat & Quantum for thus who want to have full features of Murano v0.3 | 15:10 |
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| sergmelikyan | tnurlygayanov, AFAIK we does not have any fixes related to issues from previous release. | 15:12 |
| sergmelikyan | All fixes related either to functionality implemented in this release or to Heat | 15:12 |
| sergmelikyan | So, release 0.3 is on-track | 15:13 |
| sergmelikyan | Questions? | 15:13 |
| ativelkov | Estimated release date? | 15:13 |
| katyafervent | Nope, we are clear on that | 15:13 |
| katyafervent | Yeah, except date | 15:13 |
| sergmelikyan | ativelkov, November 15 | 15:14 |
| ativelkov | OK, so - after summit. I see | 15:14 |
| sergmelikyan | If no issues going to arise we may release 0.3 sooner. | 15:14 |
| tnurlygayanov | and what date for release-0.4 ? | 15:15 |
| sergmelikyan | ativelkov, release 0.3 targets Stable/Grizzly so it is not so important to have release before summit. | 15:15 |
| tnurlygayanov | yes | 15:15 |
| sergmelikyan | And one of our news for todays meeting is news about Timur Sufiev assigned as release manager for 0.4 | 15:16 |
| sergmelikyan | So, tsufiev, what about dates? | 15:16 |
| tsufiev | tnurlygayanov: it was originally tied to Fuel 4.0 release which is on 11.11.13 | 15:17 |
| sergmelikyan | I believe we going to have some beta version integrated with Fuel 4.0 beta that is going to shown on summit | 15:18 |
| tnurlygayanov | yes, but as I know release of Fule Web 4.0 was moved on 18.11 (or later) | 15:18 |
| tsufiev | but i've heard Fuel 4.0 will be shifted a week or so, so we have to reschedule it later once we have more precise release date for Fuel | 15:18 |
| sergmelikyan | tnurlygayanov, there are no official dates for now :( | 15:18 |
| tnurlygayanov | yes.. | 15:19 |
| tnurlygayanov | ok) | 15:19 |
| akuznetsova | so, Is release 0.4 earlier release 0.3 ? | 15:19 |
| igormarnat_ | Nope | 15:19 |
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| sergmelikyan | akuznetsov, certainly no :) But this version going to be released in very close dates | 15:20 |
| sergmelikyan | *versions | 15:20 |
| igormarnat_ | We are going to release 0.3 relatively soon, 0.4 comes after that. What's clear now is that we need to have working alpha version based on Havana by Nov, 11 | 15:20 |
| tnurlygayanov | yes | 15:20 |
| akuznetsova | ok, thanks | 15:20 |
| tsufiev | igormarnat_: yes, it is quite possible | 15:20 |
| sergmelikyan | moving on :) | 15:21 |
| sergmelikyan | Other questions? Or moving to the next topic? | 15:21 |
| ativelkov | next topic please )) | 15:21 |
| sergmelikyan | #info Release Murano v0.3 on November 15 (or sooner) | 15:22 |
| sergmelikyan | #info We going to have working alpha version based on Havanna by Nov, 11 | 15:22 |
| sergmelikyan | #topic Quantum Integration issues | 15:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Quantum Integration issues (Meeting topic: Murano)" | 15:23 | |
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| sergmelikyan | ativelkov, as topic-starter, could you provide some small hint about what issues exactly this topic? :) | 15:23 |
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| igormarnat_ | Wow, great topic. Any issues with Quantum integration? | 15:24 |
| ativelkov | Well, this is about our resent findings with network topologies | 15:24 |
| ativelkov | Yeah, igormarnat_ , we've got one ) | 15:24 |
| ativelkov | Briefly speaking, Quantum/Neutron may be used to deploy different network topologies | 15:25 |
| sergmelikyan | Quantum may be deployed/configured as "Mixed Flat and Private Network" not all Murano features may handle this | 15:25 |
| ativelkov | like "One flat network for everything", "Dedicated network segments with routers for each environment" and everything in between | 15:26 |
| ativelkov | We assumed the last one | 15:26 |
| igormarnat_ | Does it require evolvement of other components, external to Murano? | 15:26 |
| sergmelikyan | And otherwise, when Quantum is configured as " Per-tenant Routers with Private Networks" we have issues with Load Balancer related services (on this topic later) | 15:26 |
| ativelkov | Let me answer a single question at a time) | 15:26 |
| ativelkov | So, we assumed that we have isolated network segments for each environment, and routers to uplink them to external network | 15:27 |
| sergmelikyan | #save | 15:27 |
| ativelkov | It turned out that not all the configurations of Quantum/Neutron support this | 15:28 |
| ativelkov | In some cases, when Neutron is configured to support only flat networks, they do not have "L3-agent" enabled | 15:28 |
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| ativelkov | or something like this, don't remember exact details) | 15:28 |
| ativelkov | So, e cannot create routers | 15:28 |
| ativelkov | or, we create them, but they do not work as expected | 15:28 |
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| tnurlygayanov | probably we can just suggest user to select already configured network for all instances in the current environment | 15:30 |
| ativelkov | not in release-03 | 15:30 |
| tnurlygayanov | yes | 15:30 |
| ativelkov | we'll use it in 0.4 | 15:30 |
| ativelkov | but in 0.3 we have a simple option: disable all this sophisticated networking stuff | 15:30 |
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| tnurlygayanov | Can we finish this feature for 11/11? | 15:31 |
| ativelkov | and join our instances to all available networks without routers | 15:31 |
| ativelkov | tnurlygayanov: I am working on that | 15:31 |
| tnurlygayanov | ok | 15:31 |
| igormarnat_ | but this depends on evolvement of external components, isn't it? | 15:31 |
| ativelkov | igormarnat_: no | 15:32 |
| ativelkov | this is not a bug in quantum | 15:32 |
| ativelkov | this is just a configuration | 15:32 |
| tnurlygayanov | ativelkov: we tested this and this is does not work with different network configurations.... | 15:32 |
| ativelkov | it is perfectly fine for them not to support that | 15:32 |
| ativelkov | we just need to be ready to react to different configurations in quantum | 15:33 |
| igormarnat_ | I've heard something about missing possibility to pass parameters for sophisticated networking configurations to Heat or something, isn't this the case? | 15:33 |
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| sergmelikyan | igormarnat_, it is about our next issue - Load Balancer | 15:33 |
| igormarnat_ | Oh, it was _previous_ issue. So we have _two_ issues, aren't we? | 15:34 |
| ativelkov | yeah | 15:34 |
| sergmelikyan | ativelkov, could you summarize once more about Quantum Integration issue? | 15:35 |
| ativelkov | Ok, so, here it is: | 15:35 |
| sergmelikyan | And public as info? | 15:35 |
| ativelkov | #info: Murano currently only supports "Per-tenant Routers with Private Networks" quantum configuration. In case if quantum is not configured for that, current Murano templates do not work | 15:37 |
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| ativelkov | #action: For release 0.3 we need to include both sets of templates (quantum- and non-quantum) to the distribution, and modify the manifests to use either version depending on the quantum configuration | 15:37 |
| ativelkov | #action: For release 0.4 we will introduce a unified logic to properly choose the right configuration right in the workflow | 15:38 |
| ativelkov | that's all ) | 15:38 |
| sergmelikyan | Any question? :) | 15:39 |
| igormarnat_ | That's was all for the first issue, right? | 15:39 |
| ativelkov | yes | 15:39 |
| igormarnat_ | Ok, no questions. What about second one? | 15:39 |
| sergmelikyan | #topic Load Balancer Issue | 15:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Load Balancer Issue (Meeting topic: Murano)" | 15:40 | |
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| sergmelikyan | I will describe the issue and our options :) Don't rush with questions ) | 15:40 |
| sergmelikyan | #info Current implementation of services IIS Web Farm and ASP.NET App Web Farm completely is based on Heat AWS::ElasticLoadBalancing::LoadBalancer resource | 15:42 |
| sergmelikyan | #info AWS::ElasticLoadBalancing::LoadBalancer resource does not support any network related configuration | 15:44 |
| katyafervent | And it changed? | 15:44 |
| sergmelikyan | So our * Web Farm services does not work when Quantum is configured as "Per-tenant Routers with Private Networks" | 15:44 |
| sergmelikyan | Solution for now (release 0.3): disable all network configuration features | 15:45 |
| sergmelikyan | katyafervent, ? | 15:45 |
| katyafervent | AWS::ElasticLoadBalancing::LoadBalancer , but now I see, thanks | 15:46 |
| sergmelikyan | To fix this issue we need to implement network related configuration feature in AWS::ElasticLoadBalancing::LoadBalancer resource | 15:46 |
| sergmelikyan | (this means implement feature in Heat) | 15:47 |
| ativelkov | another option: implement our own (HAProxy-based) load balancer | 15:47 |
| sergmelikyan | ativelkov, right | 15:47 |
| sergmelikyan | We need to discuss this issue with Heat team and they plans. | 15:47 |
| sergmelikyan | #action Discuss with Heat team future of AWS::ElasticLoadBalancing::LoadBalancer resource | 15:48 |
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| ativelkov | I would suggest to first check how it behaves in Havana | 15:49 |
| sergmelikyan | And based on the reply from Heat we may implement in either as our own service based on HAProxy, or extend AWS::ElasticLoadBalancing::LoadBalancer resource | 15:49 |
| ativelkov | this seems to be changed since grizlly | 15:49 |
| sergmelikyan | ativelkov, seems reasonable, next release of Murano is going to target Havanna, and in release 0.3 it is Known Issue in case with "Per-tenant Routers with Private Networks" | 15:50 |
| sergmelikyan | #action check AWS::ElasticLoadBalancing::LoadBalancer behaviour in Havanna | 15:50 |
| sergmelikyan | Any question about this topic? | 15:51 |
| sergmelikyan | #save | 15:51 |
| ativelkov | Yes, and our workaround for quantum issue works this out as well | 15:51 |
| sergmelikyan | so, moving on... | 15:52 |
| sergmelikyan | #topic Open Discussion | 15:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Murano)" | 15:52 | |
| sergmelikyan | We have another 8 minutes before meeting going to finish | 15:52 |
| sergmelikyan | :) | 15:53 |
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| igormarnat_ | Are there uncovered topics yet in the agenda? | 15:55 |
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| sergmelikyan | igormarnat_, no | 15:56 |
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| sergmelikyan | Then let's finish | 15:57 |
| sergmelikyan | #endmeeting | 15:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)" | 15:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Oct 28 15:57:40 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2013/murano.2013-10-28-15.00.html | 15:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2013/murano.2013-10-28-15.00.txt | 15:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2013/murano.2013-10-28-15.00.log.html | 15:57 |
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| kgriffs | #startmeeting marconi | 16:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Oct 28 16:04:07 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is kgriffs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:04 |
| alcabrera | o/ | 16:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 16:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'marconi' | 16:04 |
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| flaper87 | \o/ | 16:04 |
| flaper87 | <o/ \o> | 16:04 |
| kgriffs | /o/ | 16:04 |
| * flaper87 bitboxes | 16:04 | |
| kgriffs | \o\ | 16:04 |
| kgriffs | \o/ | 16:04 |
| kgriffs | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Marconi#Agenda | 16:04 |
| malini | o/ | 16:05 |
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| flaper87 | cp16net: welcome :) | 16:05 |
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| kgriffs | #topic revi3w @CtioN$ fr0m l@57 7IM3 | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "revi3w @CtioN$ fr0m l@57 7IM3 (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 16:05 | |
| flaper87 | (plop) | 16:05 |
| alcabrera | flaper87: you have *all* the actions. | 16:05 |
| alcabrera | :D | 16:05 |
| flaper87 | damnit! | 16:06 |
| kgriffs | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-10-21-16.03.html | 16:06 |
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| kgriffs | looks like flaper87 is the only one doing any work these days | 16:06 |
| kgriffs | ;) | 16:06 |
| flaper87 | so, I didn't do much on the Heat area because I had to focus more on the summit and API things. | 16:06 |
| flaper87 | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cross-transport-api-spec | 16:06 |
| flaper87 | that's re API spec | 16:06 |
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| * kgriffs reads | 16:07 | |
| flaper87 | If you want to take a look to the design, just open the PDF | 16:07 |
| flaper87 | which contains some diagrams and very high-colored definition | 16:07 |
| flaper87 | :P | 16:07 |
| flaper87 | anyway, It still needs some writing but the bases are already written there | 16:07 |
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| cp16net | flaper87: hello :-P | 16:08 |
| flaper87 | cp16net: hey :) | 16:08 |
| alcabrera | Herein, an API sounds like a mapping of routes to resources. | 16:09 |
| alcabrera | so each transport can serve up a series of resources according to a particular map. | 16:09 |
| alcabrera | That's how I understand it. :) | 16:09 |
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| flaper87 | alcabrera: yeah, that's basically it | 16:10 |
| flaper87 | there are some thing I want it to guarantee, though: | 16:10 |
| flaper87 | I want that API to be easy to extend, version and validate | 16:11 |
| flaper87 | and it obviously has to be cross-transport | 16:11 |
| kgriffs | re extensions | 16:11 |
| alcabrera | the extend part is going to be interesting. | 16:11 |
| kgriffs | will those receive the stevedore treatment? | 16:11 |
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| flaper87 | I was thinking, yes! | 16:13 |
| flaper87 | That way users may choose to enable them or not | 16:13 |
| kgriffs | ok, good. It sure beats having to maintain a marconi fork with custom patches | 16:13 |
| alcabrera | +1 | 16:14 |
| alcabrera | sharding is a sort of first API extension./ | 16:14 |
| kgriffs | people can then load whatever cute, stevedorable extensions they like without hacking the code | 16:14 |
| flaper87 | cool! I think I'll be able to work something out for our next meeting, which will be after the summit | 16:14 |
| kgriffs | and you are planning to have the endpoints serve up the schema itself so clients can use it? | 16:15 |
| alcabrera | a cool demo of getting that machination together would a /stats all the things API extension loaded hrough stevedore and implemented in a separate repop. | 16:15 |
| alcabrera | *repo | 16:15 |
| kgriffs | s/endpoints/transports | 16:15 |
| alcabrera | **would be a... | 16:15 |
| kgriffs | alcabrera: yeah | 16:15 |
| kgriffs | or, like, a statsd-a-nator | 16:15 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: yeah, that too! | 16:15 |
| kgriffs | ok, rock on | 16:15 |
| kgriffs | anything else on this topic? | 16:16 |
| flaper87 | not from mee! | 16:16 |
| kgriffs | #action flaper87 to firm up cross-transport-api-spec | 16:16 |
| kgriffs | alcabrera: want to investigate heat? | 16:16 |
| alcabrera | lemme see... | 16:17 |
| alcabrera | not this go around. | 16:17 |
| kgriffs | sometime in the next 2 weeks | 16:17 |
| alcabrera | My eyes are still deep into sharding. | 16:17 |
| alcabrera | hmmm | 16:17 |
| alcabrera | next week, I'll do it. :D | 16:17 |
| kgriffs | ok | 16:17 |
| alcabrera | Yeah, sign me up. | 16:17 |
| flaper87 | alcabrera: THANKS! | 16:17 |
| flaper87 | that would be really cool | 16:17 |
| alcabrera | I've been curious about Heat for some time. | 16:17 |
| flaper87 | I'm sorry for not working on that | 16:17 |
| kgriffs | #action alcabrera to research ways we can use heat to deploy marconi itself, as well as provision queues, whatever | 16:17 |
| alcabrera | flaper87: no worries. :) | 16:18 |
| kgriffs | no worries, we need to spread the love | 16:18 |
| * alcabrera got an action this time | 16:18 | |
| kgriffs | can't have flaper87 doing *all* the work | 16:18 |
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| kgriffs | (just most of it) | 16:18 |
| alcabrera | hehe | 16:18 |
| kgriffs | ;) | 16:18 |
| alcabrera | :D | 16:18 |
| zyuan | i'd like to work on msgpack media type support | 16:18 |
| kgriffs | #topic Upd@73$ on 5H@rDinG | 16:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Upd@73$ on 5H@rDinG (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 16:18 | |
| flaper87 | LOOL | 16:19 |
| flaper87 | alcabrera: go go go go go go go! | 16:19 |
| alcabrera | kkk | 16:19 |
| alcabrera | soooo | 16:19 |
| kgriffs | zyuan: that would be cool, let's discuss in a bit | 16:19 |
| alcabrera | It's been some fierce rebasing last week. | 16:19 |
| alcabrera | I think most of the core ideas have settled into place. | 16:19 |
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| alcabrera | Some of the biggest updates include a distinction between control storage drivers and data storage drivers being made, which cleaned up a lot of the abstarction. | 16:20 |
| alcabrera | The other side of the fence was in the transport layer, where we have an admin API and a public API. | 16:20 |
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| alcabrera | The admin is truly a *super* API, meaning, an admin instance can do all a public instance can do (and more). | 16:20 |
| alcabrera | That more, in the case of the sharding API, is being able to register shards and investigate the state of the project/queue mapping catalogue. | 16:20 |
| alcabrera | Other news - patches on that admin API are starting to get merged in. | 16:21 |
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| alcabrera | The remaining patches are mostly reviewed, and quite nearly ready for merging. | 16:21 |
| alcabrera | After that... | 16:21 |
| alcabrera | It's a matter of hooking the control layer of storage up to queues. | 16:21 |
| alcabrera | Maybe add some caching. | 16:21 |
| alcabrera | Test it. | 16:22 |
| alcabrera | Play with it. | 16:22 |
| alcabrera | And watch it zoom. | 16:22 |
| alcabrera | It's going to be fun. | 16:22 |
| kgriffs | w00t | 16:22 |
| kgriffs | thanks for all the hard work | 16:22 |
| flaper87 | awesome, awesome, awesome WORK! | 16:22 |
| kgriffs | it's been quite a dance | 16:22 |
| kgriffs | http://ln-s.net/:MsM | 16:22 |
| alcabrera | quite the dance. indeed. :D | 16:22 |
| alcabrera | We even have a thoughtstream tpo show for it. | 16:22 |
| flaper87 | seriously, i know it's been kinda painful this whole proxy / sharding thing | 16:22 |
| alcabrera | #link https://thoughtstreams.io/combined/marconi-progress-and-updates/ | 16:22 |
| kgriffs | yeah | 16:23 |
| alcabrera | sometimes finding what works can be a little painful. I think we're on the right path. | 16:23 |
| alcabrera | Experiments. | 16:23 |
| alcabrera | For science! | 16:23 |
| kgriffs | lesson learned: draw more pretty pictures, do more prototypes | 16:23 |
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| kgriffs | science indeed. :) | 16:23 |
| kgriffs | ok, so lets rally around this feature and get it merged | 16:24 |
| kgriffs | and tested | 16:24 |
| kgriffs | and awesome-i-fied | 16:24 |
| alcabrera | +1 | 16:24 |
| flaper87 | +2 | 16:24 |
| kgriffs | anything else before we move on? | 16:24 |
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| alcabrera | I think the rest we can figure out as we go over at #marconi | 16:24 |
| alcabrera | I vote: next topic | 16:25 |
| kgriffs | #topic UPD@73s oN 8Ug$ | 16:25 |
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| kgriffs | malini: ? | 16:25 |
| malini | We need to discuss a couple | 16:25 |
| kgriffs | #link http://goo.gl/OlfzxC | 16:25 |
| malini | https://bugs.launchpad.net/marconi/+bug/1243752 | 16:26 |
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| malini | zyuan: You had some thoughts on this , rt? | 16:26 |
| flaper87 | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/marconi/+bug/1243752 | 16:26 |
| malini | zyuan here? | 16:27 |
| zyuan | yes | 16:27 |
| zyuan | i agree that 204 is not intuiitive | 16:27 |
| zyuan | but 404 requires more work | 16:27 |
| zyuan | as shown by one of kurt's commit | 16:28 |
| alcabrera | To make that 404 efficient, it would take a little bit of caching, IMO. | 16:28 |
| kgriffs | yes | 16:28 |
| kgriffs | i don't want to do it without oslo.cache | 16:28 |
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| zyuan | i don't think that's nessarsary; user can try head a queue too | 16:28 |
| kgriffs | btw, using oslow.cache for checking whether queue exists will speed up the other place(s) we do it already | 16:29 |
| zyuan | for the places we place the checking | 16:30 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: +1 that's something we have in the queue of: 'to cache' things | 16:30 |
| zyuan | cache may result in more race conditions | 16:30 |
| zyuan | like, put messages into another queue... | 16:30 |
| zyuan | temp file problem | 16:30 |
| kgriffs | also, once I get around to doing the LRU driver that acts like a CPU's L1+L2 hierarchy, it will be insanely fast. | 16:31 |
| alcabrera | it's the eventual consistency problem. We'd have to decide what consistency guarantees we want to uphold, and where it matters. | 16:32 |
| alcabrera | zyuan: ^^ | 16:32 |
| kgriffs | so, the race condition results in a 204 - like, a queue was deleted right after we checked for existence | 16:32 |
| zyuan | cache is fast, i'm saying it may not be c correct | 16:32 |
| kgriffs | and in that case, we move forward, assuming the cache is there | 16:32 |
| kgriffs | thing is, that doesn't seem to be any worse that what happens now | 16:32 |
| zyuan | hard to say... | 16:33 |
| zyuan | and, | 16:33 |
| kgriffs | except, i guess we might set the expectation for clients that if they get 204 the queue must exist | 16:33 |
| kgriffs | we would have to say "if you get a 204, the queue is empty, or may have just been deleted" | 16:34 |
| zyuan | i think db brings eventual consistency not for nothing | 16:34 |
| kgriffs | or something | 16:34 |
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| zyuan | i don't think it's something *we* can try to workaround | 16:34 |
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| zyuan | if we can, why db does not? | 16:34 |
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| kgriffs | zyuan: true, if the data store is eventually consistent, the "exists" check isn't guaranteed anyway | 16:34 |
| kgriffs | so the bug is more like, should we make a best effort to check? | 16:35 |
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| kgriffs | flaper87: what do u think? | 16:35 |
| flaper87 | sorry, stupid thing got stucked! | 16:35 |
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| zyuan | this "problen" is rare | 16:36 |
| malini | zyuan: agrre with the rare part | 16:36 |
| zyuan | we assume queues are not deleted very often | 16:36 |
| zyuan | if so, then what we "best effect" do is just | 16:36 |
| zyuan | transfer to one genrentee to another | 16:36 |
| kgriffs | clarification: the race condition is rare, or the use case of querying a non-existing queue? | 16:37 |
| zyuan | i don't see the benefit | 16:37 |
| zyuan | use case is rare as well as the race condition | 16:37 |
| malini | kgriffs: the use- case | 16:37 |
| flaper87 | TBH, I'd like us, at some point, to treat queues as lazy resources. Meaning, create them when a message is post (for example) | 16:37 |
| flaper87 | that doesn't fix the issue we're discussing, though. | 16:37 |
| kgriffs | would we create them on a GET as well? | 16:37 |
| zyuan | race condition... actually i don't know. but i hope cache don't make the situation worse | 16:37 |
| alcabrera | hmmm | 16:37 |
| malini | kgriffs: :D | 16:38 |
| zyuan | .. you know, it's like we are fixing something db can not fix | 16:38 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: nope | 16:38 |
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| kgriffs | ok, here is what I suggest | 16:38 |
| kgriffs | wait until we get another complaint or two | 16:39 |
| alcabrera | I'm not sure about create on write, but that's one to discuss for another time, flaper87. Interesting thought, though. :) | 16:39 |
| kgriffs | if we don't hear anything, then we can assume nobody cares | 16:39 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: +1 | 16:39 |
| alcabrera | kgriffs: sounds fair enough to me. | 16:39 |
| alcabrera | It's trippy for new users, but may not be a dire issue. | 16:39 |
| flaper87 | alcabrera: yeah, TBH, taken from mongodb and how it treats collections | 16:39 |
| malini | how do we keep track -so move the bug to a lower priority ? | 16:39 |
| zyuan | since users just started to try (to break) marconi, i expect such complain will come to us soon | 16:39 |
| flaper87 | they don't exist until something is written into it | 16:39 |
| flaper87 | zyuan: agreed | 16:40 |
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| flaper87 | malini: I think we could close the bug as wontfix and re-open it later if necessary | 16:40 |
| zyuan | anyway | 16:40 |
| flaper87 | or invalid | 16:40 |
| flaper87 | or something like that | 16:40 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: FWIW, the lazy create is how RSE worked (marconi's predecessor) | 16:40 |
| malini | flaper87: problem is we are not going to remember this discussion when somebody else complains :( | 16:41 |
| kgriffs | you never created or deleted queues | 16:41 |
| kgriffs | I'll put a note on the bug | 16:41 |
| flaper87 | TBH, I think that's how it should be | 16:41 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: ^ | 16:41 |
| alcabrera | malini: it would have to be closed with rationale - good point. | 16:41 |
| zyuan | haha | 16:41 |
| flaper87 | it may not be relevant for some storage but it is for others | 16:41 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: well, I'd say delete yes | 16:42 |
| flaper87 | but we could definitely make creation easier | 16:42 |
| kgriffs | in RSE, queues didn't exist as a standalone resource | 16:42 |
| kgriffs | so there was nothing to delete | 16:42 |
| kgriffs | a "queue" was just a namespace | 16:43 |
| kgriffs | aaaanyway | 16:43 |
| zyuan | itis related to both mongo and sql | 16:43 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: yeah, by delete a queue I mean: A way to remove all those messages | 16:43 |
| kgriffs | malini: any other bugs to bring up? | 16:43 |
| zyuan | sql cares about relation between sets | 16:43 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: gotchya | 16:43 |
| zyuan | if queue sets is empty, intersaction is also empty | 16:43 |
| zyuan | silently | 16:43 |
| malini | no more bugs to discuss..But we have a lot to set priority on | 16:43 |
| flaper87 | malini: agreed, but if we don't we'll keep a bug around that may create some confussion | 16:44 |
| flaper87 | I'm happy with either! | 16:44 |
| kgriffs | malini: let's triage bugs in a breakout after this | 16:44 |
| malini | ok | 16:44 |
| alcabrera | +1 | 16:44 |
| zyuan | i would suggest if the compaint comes to us again, discuss whether we need to update the doc | 16:44 |
| alcabrera | next up - triaging BPs? | 16:45 |
| malini | flaper87: we need a way to keep track of user feedback - this does not fit into marconi v2 suggestion wiki. | 16:45 |
| zyuan | yea | 16:46 |
| flaper87 | malini: yeah, I wonder what other projects are doing here | 16:46 |
| zyuan | issues? | 16:46 |
| alcabrera | malini: +1 | 16:46 |
| flaper87 | will send an email later. | 16:46 |
| zyuan | github ones? | 16:46 |
| flaper87 | We should have a general suggestion wiki then | 16:47 |
| kgriffs | ok, let's triage blueprints in a breakout as well | 16:47 |
| zyuan | wow, i love this BP, encrypt user data | 16:47 |
| alcabrera | kk | 16:47 |
| zyuan | alought it's very old | 16:47 |
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| alcabrera | Review API v1 feedback? | 16:48 |
| kgriffs | #topic r3vi3w @PI v1 f33D8@ck | 16:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "r3vi3w @PI v1 f33D8@ck (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 16:48 | |
| kgriffs | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Marconi/specs/api/next | 16:48 |
| kgriffs | So, as you may know, I've been collecting feedback from users on this page | 16:48 |
| zyuan | top to down? | 16:49 |
| alcabrera | yup - good work, kgriffs! This is a good start to tracking v1.1 ideas. | 16:49 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: +2 | 16:49 |
| kgriffs | sure, let me just give a quick background on these and we can start thinking about which ones we want to do and stuff | 16:50 |
| flaper87 | There's a session where we'll be reviewing them, isn't there? | 16:50 |
| flaper87 | or something like that | 16:50 |
| kgriffs | kind of | 16:51 |
| kgriffs | i think we want to pull in a few things for a v1.1 api bump in icehouse | 16:51 |
| kgriffs | # link http://icehousedesignsummit.sched.org/event/72e05db820e4e7ca8eebf19a1260de64 | 16:51 |
| kgriffs | #link http://icehousedesignsummit.sched.org/event/72e05db820e4e7ca8eebf19a1260de64 | 16:51 |
| kgriffs | but, we will need to do an unconference or something before then to get it down to a small list of proposed API changes | 16:51 |
| flaper87 | totally! | 16:52 |
| kgriffs | ok | 16:52 |
| flaper87 | We should review them all together and then go to the session | 16:52 |
| kgriffs | +1 | 16:52 |
| kgriffs | so, real quick | 16:52 |
| flaper87 | shoot | 16:52 |
| kgriffs | auto-gen client UUID if not given | 16:52 |
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| kgriffs | this was proposed by a user who said it would be nice to have in two cases | 16:53 |
| kgriffs | first, when doing simple job queueing with marconi, in which case client ID isn't really needed | 16:53 |
| zyuan | oh | 16:53 |
| kgriffs | second, when client isn't using a queue as a duplex pipe | 16:53 |
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| kgriffs | that being said, I think always having client-uuid could help surface interesting stats | 16:54 |
| zyuan | what does 2 mean? | 16:54 |
| kgriffs | and also could be logged to facilitate ops/support for users | 16:54 |
| kgriffs | 2 means, i could just have a "send" queue and a separate "receive" queue and then I wouldn't have the message echo problem | 16:55 |
| flaper87 | mmhh | 16:55 |
| flaper87 | I'd expect people to use library clients | 16:55 |
| kgriffs | IMO, however, having echo cancellation can really simplify system architecture | 16:55 |
| flaper87 | and the library could generate the uuid | 16:55 |
| kgriffs | yep | 16:55 |
| kgriffs | ok, not a lot of time... | 16:55 |
| kgriffs | moving on | 16:55 |
| kgriffs | actually | 16:56 |
| kgriffs | so, next item is related, so I will skip | 16:56 |
| flaper87 | what if we take 30mins everyday this week to discuss these itesm | 16:56 |
| flaper87 | or something like that? | 16:56 |
| kgriffs | next item someone said it was a pain for them to make a UUID but I think they were just using curl or something | 16:56 |
| kgriffs | and they couldn't give me a good example of an alternative ID a client might want to use | 16:56 |
| alcabrera | flaper87: +1 | 16:56 |
| flaper87 | I think we would benefit of several really small meetings this week. | 16:56 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: sounds good | 16:57 |
| kgriffs | lots to do | 16:57 |
| zyuan | haha, +1 | 16:57 |
| alcabrera | I'm in favor of small meetings on this subject. | 16:57 |
| kgriffs | so, 11 each day? | 16:57 |
| flaper87 | 11 EDT ? | 16:57 |
| alcabrera | Also, same goes for BPs triaging. | 16:57 |
| kgriffs | sorry | 16:57 |
| kgriffs | 1600 UTC | 16:57 |
| flaper87 | sounds good! | 16:57 |
| alcabrera | woot | 16:57 |
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| kgriffs | but in #openstack-marconi | 16:57 |
| flaper87 | yup | 16:57 |
| alcabrera | 11EDT works wonderfully for me. | 16:57 |
| kgriffs | kk | 16:57 |
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| kgriffs | alcabrera: I think it is actually 12 your time | 16:58 |
| flaper87 | Open discussion ? | 16:58 |
| zyuan | ok | 16:58 |
| kgriffs | https://duckduckgo.com/?q=1600+utc+in+edt | 16:58 |
| alcabrera | kgriffs: still works. :D | 16:58 |
| kgriffs | #topic open discussion | 16:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: marconi)" | 16:58 | |
| flaper87 | o/ | 16:58 |
| alcabrera | zyuan: you wanted to bring up msgpack? | 16:58 |
| zyuan | yes | 16:58 |
| flaper87 | zyuan: you go | 16:59 |
| flaper87 | mine is just a small comment | 16:59 |
| zyuan | not sure how deep though | 16:59 |
| zyuan | (i mean, not sure wehther need to change falcon) | 16:59 |
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| kgriffs | zyuan: error message responses - I have been meaning to make those hookable, so apps can customize the response | 17:01 |
| zyuan | kgriffs: exactly... | 17:01 |
| zyuan | that's what i mean "how deep" | 17:01 |
| zyuan | i'll think about this | 17:01 |
| kgriffs | but anyway, I guess we need to balance working on that with other stuff. I think msgpack support could be a potential for v1.1 API | 17:01 |
| flaper87 | perhaps once we add support for zmq as well | 17:02 |
| kgriffs | but, let's make sure we have sharding and high-priority bugs covered first | 17:02 |
| zyuan | msgpack does not break 1.0 API, afaics | 17:02 |
| flaper87 | zyuan: agreed! | 17:03 |
| kgriffs | zyuan: we could decide to sneak it it but not document it until 1.1 | 17:03 |
| kgriffs | client maintainers just want to feel like the API is stable | 17:03 |
| zyuan | +0.8 | 17:03 |
| zyuan | +1 | 17:03 |
| kgriffs | i think this could also be a good POC for extensions | 17:03 |
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| zyuan | yea | 17:03 |
| zyuan | on bugs... | 17:03 |
| zyuan | continue on openstack-marconi? | 17:04 |
| kgriffs | mmm | 17:04 |
| flaper87 | just one small comment before we wrap up | 17:04 |
| kgriffs | I just realized I need to run | 17:04 |
| alcabrera | flaper87: shoot | 17:04 |
| flaper87 | as you know next week is the Summit and we'll attend and present our very super cool and young API v1, perhaps with some parts of the client working | 17:05 |
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| flaper87 | now, we need to impress people a bit | 17:05 |
| flaper87 | so, if you guys have ideas, thoughts or things we could bring up | 17:05 |
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| flaper87 | for an un-conference, sprint or whatever and get more people interested | 17:05 |
| flaper87 | please, lets work on that | 17:06 |
| alcabrera | flaper87: +1 | 17:06 |
| flaper87 | it's a great opportunity to make our team bigger | 17:06 |
| kgriffs | +! | 17:06 |
| kgriffs | +1 | 17:06 |
| alcabrera | agreed. Let's make our summit efforts spetacular! | 17:06 |
| * flaper87 STFU now! | 17:07 | |
| kgriffs | generally, kudos to flaper87 for his work in building the marconi community | 17:07 |
| * flaper87 blushes | 17:07 | |
| kgriffs | i like the sprint idea | 17:07 |
| kgriffs | that will help too, and give us a chance to pass out poptarts | 17:07 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: awesome, I was thinking some time on Wednesday or Thursday | 17:08 |
| kgriffs | we can also just invite people to come hang out and ask questions, give feedback | 17:08 |
| flaper87 | to make people curious and help them think on new ideas to bring up during the sessions | 17:08 |
| kgriffs | maybe we just grab an unconference slot for Q&A or something | 17:08 |
| kgriffs | ah, that | 17:08 |
| kgriffs | what you said. :D | 17:08 |
| kgriffs | hmmm. We need t-shirts | 17:09 |
| alcabrera | announce an o'reilly book: Marconi Up and Running. ;) | 17:09 |
| alcabrera | hehehe | 17:09 |
| kgriffs | LOL | 17:09 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: LOL | 17:09 |
| kgriffs | hmmm. we need a logo | 17:09 |
| flaper87 | +1 t-shirts | 17:09 |
| alcabrera | +1 t-shirts - also, I want one. | 17:09 |
| kgriffs | #action kgriffs to see about t-shirts | 17:09 |
| alcabrera | yes | 17:09 |
| kgriffs | ok, any last words before we end the mtg? | 17:09 |
| alcabrera | #info Marconi needs a logo and t-shirts | 17:10 |
| malini | bye-bye | 17:10 |
| alcabrera | o/ | 17:10 |
| kgriffs | Liv3 long, anD Pr0$P3R | 17:10 |
| kgriffs | #endmeeting | 17:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings (alternate)" | 17:10 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Oct 28 17:10:22 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:10 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-10-28-16.04.html | 17:10 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-10-28-16.04.txt | 17:10 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/marconi/2013/marconi.2013-10-28-16.04.log.html | 17:10 |
| kgriffs | alcabrera: you want to post the minutes again? (thanks, btw!) | 17:10 |
| kgriffs | I already updated the agenda | 17:10 |
| alcabrera | kgriffs: already on it. | 17:11 |
| alcabrera | :D | 17:11 |
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