| stevebaker | #startmeeting heat | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 20 00:01:55 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 00:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 00:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 00:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 00:02 |
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| stevebaker | #topic rollcall | 00:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 00:02 | |
| sdake_ | o/ | 00:02 |
| zaneb | greetings | 00:02 |
| spzala | Hi | 00:02 |
| bgorski | o/ | 00:02 |
| mspreitz | o/ | 00:02 |
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| zaneb | bgorski: you're up late! | 00:03 |
| zaneb | or early | 00:03 |
| stevebaker | #topic Review last meeting's actions | 00:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review last meeting's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 00:03 | |
| stevebaker | everyone to write tempest tests ;) | 00:03 |
| bgorski | zaneb, yes I am 1 am :) | 00:04 |
| stevebaker | everyone: did you to that yet? | 00:04 |
| mspreitz | on my list for today | 00:04 |
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| stevebaker | I got the autoscaling test working locally. I'm just waiting for infra firewall changes so we can make cloudwatch and heat-api calls from servers | 00:04 |
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| stevebaker | make trusts the default, with graceful fallback so existing configuration files continue to work | 00:05 |
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| bgorski | I thinking about adding some test for the VPNaaS but I have a problem with finding the time for it | 00:05 |
| stevebaker | not sure where shardy is at with that, he is travelling this week | 00:05 |
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| mspreitz | I haven't decided on a scenario, what are you others doing? | 00:05 |
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| stevebaker | #topic Adding items to the agenda | 00:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 00:05 | |
| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda_.282014-3-19_0000_UTC.29 | 00:05 |
| stevebaker | anything else to add? | 00:06 |
| stevebaker | #topic Icehouse rc-1 bug burndown list | 00:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Icehouse rc-1 bug burndown list (Meeting topic: heat)" | 00:06 | |
| stevebaker | So our rc1 will be cut next week as soon as our line goes to zero | 00:07 |
| stevebaker | #link http://old-wiki.openstack.org/rc/ | 00:07 |
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| zaneb | mspreitz: there are a bunch of Heat bugs tagged with Tempest. Just grab one and assign it to yourself | 00:07 |
| stevebaker | #linke https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/icehouse-rc1 | 00:07 |
| stevebaker | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/icehouse-rc1 | 00:07 |
| stevebaker | mspreitz: a test implementing basic update operations would be a good start | 00:08 |
| stevebaker | 17 bugs in progress, 6 triaged | 00:08 |
| sdake_ | adding update to the api tests would be good too | 00:08 |
| stevebaker | so if you need a priority on what to review, go for the High importance in progress bugs | 00:09 |
| stevebaker | bgorski: do you want to take https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1279645 ? | 00:09 |
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| bgorski | stevebaker, ok I will take it | 00:10 |
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| stevebaker | SpamapS: should we kick https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1160052 from rc1? | 00:10 |
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| mspreitz | what moves a bug from "Fix Committed" to "so done it is not even listed" ? | 00:11 |
| stevebaker | mspreitz: that is Fix Released | 00:11 |
| mspreitz | thanks | 00:11 |
| stevebaker | If there is a bug which you think should block the release of rc1 then let me know, otherwise I might kick it | 00:12 |
| stevebaker | thats all I've got | 00:13 |
| stevebaker | #topic Open Discussion | 00:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 00:13 | |
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| stevebaker | should we finish early? | 00:14 |
| mspreitz | I am not ready to raise anything else right now | 00:15 |
| sdake_ | might as well, pretyt light crew | 00:15 |
| stevebaker | #endmeeting | 00:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 00:15 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 20 00:15:44 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 00:15 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-03-20-00.01.html | 00:15 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-03-20-00.01.txt | 00:15 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-03-20-00.01.log.html | 00:15 |
| stevebaker | 45 minutes of freedom! | 00:15 |
| mattoliverau | Well that's definitely the shortest meeting I've seen :P | 00:16 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: probably going to have to. I'm not getting any spare cycles to finish my half fix | 01:49 |
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| russellb | #startmeeting nova | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 20 14:01:19 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 14:01 |
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| russellb | hello everyone! who's here to talk about nova? | 14:01 |
| alaski | o/ | 14:01 |
| dansmith | o/ | 14:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 14:01 |
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| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova | 14:01 |
| garyk | hi | 14:02 |
| russellb | #topic icehouse-rc1 | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "icehouse-rc1 (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:02 | |
| russellb | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/icehouse-rc1 | 14:02 |
| russellb | we're aiming to release RC1 next week | 14:02 |
| russellb | 9 bugs on the list left to close out | 14:02 |
| russellb | let's see if we can merge as much as we can this week | 14:02 |
| russellb | come next week i want to start allowing only show stopper and regressions on the list | 14:03 |
| russellb | so some of these would get bumped to "nice to have" if they don't make it this week | 14:03 |
| russellb | anyone aware of issues not on this list that should be? | 14:03 |
| garyk | is the state of the gate a concern? | 14:03 |
| russellb | i see the gate time, what's the root cause? | 14:04 |
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| russellb | i see this patch was promoted to the head of the gate: https://review.openstack.org/79816 | 14:04 |
| alaski | I think a couple of those might be in the gate already | 14:04 |
| russellb | excellent | 14:04 |
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| garyk | this seems to be the bug that is reported on failures - https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1283522 | 14:04 |
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| russellb | 138 fails in 24hrs / 956 fails in 14 days | 14:05 |
| russellb | on that bug | 14:05 |
| russellb | ouch | 14:05 |
| russellb | looks like a related patch merged 39 minutes ago | 14:06 |
| dansmith | yeah, neutron deadlock and libvirt timeouts are the two issues I think | 14:06 |
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| russellb | OK | 14:06 |
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| russellb | so looks like patches going in now related to both | 14:06 |
| russellb | so hopefully we'll see some improvement today | 14:06 |
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| russellb | if something is approved by monday and just fighting through the gate, we can still try to get it in | 14:07 |
| russellb | not a huge deal | 14:07 |
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| russellb | any comments / questions / concerns on icehouse-rc1? | 14:07 |
| russellb | one bug was brought up by cyeoh for discussion | 14:08 |
| russellb | though he can't be here | 14:08 |
| russellb | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1286297 | 14:08 |
| russellb | "we made a backwards incompatible change in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/40811/ which caused this" | 14:08 |
| russellb | "some details here: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/030508.html" | 14:08 |
| russellb | question is, even though it's been merged for almost all of icehouse, do we revert it or not? | 14:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | api was not very usable before that change though, not by a non-admin anyways | 14:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | but breaking our users seems possibly worse | 14:09 |
| dansmith | my opinion is that it's been out in the wild for a long time, it's hard to justify reverting it at this point, IMHO | 14:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | I wondered about making the flavor auth silently succeed if its a no-op, but maybe thats making things worse | 14:09 |
| russellb | ttx's point on list was, if we leave it, we decide to also break everyone going release to release | 14:09 |
| russellb | which is honestly a lot more common | 14:10 |
| russellb | than CD | 14:10 |
| russellb | that's my impression at least | 14:10 |
| dansmith | it's a semantic change though, right? not a hard break, and it fails in a reasonable way | 14:10 |
| dansmith | I guess I didn't realize there was a thread yet | 14:10 |
| PhilD | Sounds more like we fixed a bug than made an incompatible change to me - I'd vote it should stay | 14:10 |
| russellb | OK, make your votes on the thread | 14:10 |
| russellb | just want to make sure it's a conscious decision | 14:10 |
| russellb | my gut says leave it, too | 14:11 |
| russellb | FWIW | 14:11 |
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| russellb | #topic bugs | 14:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:11 | |
| russellb | other bugs stuff | 14:11 |
| russellb | not sure who added this one to the agenda | 14:11 |
| russellb | "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77524/ bug fix related to cinder and keystone v3, cinderclient is already fixed but nova needs to use keystone v3 API - question is what needs to happen before we are "supporting" keystone v3? What needs to happen in Tempest? What areas of nova do we know need to change?" | 14:11 |
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| PhilD | I think we do need to be claer on "Bug fix" vs "incompatible change" though - any bug fix in the API is a visible change, and this makes the code match the API documentation | 14:12 |
| russellb | agreed with that | 14:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 14:13 |
| russellb | #topic blueprints | 14:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:13 | |
| russellb | OK, juno blueprints! | 14:13 |
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| russellb | there's been some progress on an updated process for Juno | 14:13 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprints#Nova | 14:13 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy just updated that wiki page | 14:13 |
| PhilD | Are we still doing Keystone V3 support as a topic ? | 14:13 |
| russellb | PhilD: let's come back to it if you'd like, didn't seem like anyone was around to cover that, but can come back to it | 14:14 |
| russellb | so, we have a nova-specs git repo | 14:14 |
| russellb | we have a template in the repo for specs | 14:14 |
| russellb | and we want to require *all* juno blueprints to go through this repo for review | 14:14 |
| russellb | even ones previously reviewed | 14:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | I have just unapproved all non-completed blueprints, turns out it is possible | 14:14 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: great | 14:14 |
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| russellb | note that we're going to be learning on the go with this, it's a bit of experimentation | 14:15 |
| russellb | but i think it's going to result in much better reviews than using the horrible "whiteboard" | 14:15 |
| russellb | and we'll have a nice archive of specs in git | 14:15 |
| russellb | I think the repo is open for business at this point though | 14:15 |
| lcostantino | so, every BP that were approved and had code but deferred will have to go tru this new process right? | 14:16 |
| russellb | correct | 14:16 |
| russellb | if it was previously approved, hopefully the review will be quick | 14:16 |
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| lcostantino | great | 14:16 |
| russellb | but it does mean we're requiring a much more thorough design document | 14:16 |
| russellb | where as before we may have been more lenient | 14:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | one big bonus is the use of gerrit should lead to more consistency, in the long run | 14:17 |
| russellb | and should address a major complaint i get about the quality of blueprint detail | 14:18 |
| russellb | a bit less painful to enforce here | 14:18 |
| devoid | so do you place the non-approved blueprint in /juno, what is the naming convention? | 14:18 |
| russellb | devoid: it's covered in the tempalte | 14:18 |
| russellb | juno/approved/my-blueprint.rst | 14:18 |
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| russellb | where my-blueprint is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/my-blueprint | 14:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: do we want to leave the template open to comments till Monday, for those who are interested? | 14:19 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: i think we should open it now, and say watch for updates | 14:19 |
| russellb | i suspect we may have a continuous flow of updates through the cycle | 14:19 |
| devoid | I know that the operators group is working to better lay out end-user and deployer impact. | 14:19 |
| russellb | devoid: oh? for this? | 14:20 |
| russellb | sure, that'd be great | 14:20 |
| devoid | for blueprint approvals | 14:20 |
| russellb | and can just be submitted to gerrit as an update to our template | 14:20 |
| devoid | yup. | 14:20 |
| russellb | any questions or concerns? | 14:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: OK, so I am keen to wait for that feedback? or do we want to go now? | 14:21 |
| russellb | otherwise i'll post to the mailing list today drawing more attention to the progress | 14:21 |
| devoid | one concern is if blueprints are approved too quickly there's no time for a broad set of people to review. | 14:21 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: sure, I guess the udpate this week can be "take a look at our template and provide feedback", that's fine with me | 14:21 |
| PhilD | Good point, I'd like to see some guildlines on that point. | 14:21 |
| russellb | that seems fair | 14:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: yeah, sorry to add a delay | 14:22 |
| dansmith | russellb: even with this new system, we're planning not to approve until there is some actual code as we discussed in UT right? | 14:22 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: no worries | 14:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | so, about delays | 14:22 |
| russellb | dansmith: good question | 14:22 |
| russellb | i think there's two things | 14:22 |
| russellb | 1) approving the spec | 14:22 |
| russellb | 2) approving a blueprint into a milestone based on that spec | 14:22 |
| dansmith | oh, targeting | 14:22 |
| dansmith | gotcha | 14:22 |
| russellb | maybe we should separate those things | 14:22 |
| dansmith | yes | 14:22 |
| dansmith | that sounds fine to me | 14:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | sometime we need to push little things through, I don't like adding a big delay, but blueprint delays feel better than code. | 14:22 |
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| russellb | johnthetubaguy: which makes the "originally approved for" thing a bit more difficult | 14:22 |
| dansmith | just need to make it clear what "approving the spec" means | 14:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: yeah, true | 14:23 |
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| russellb | johnthetubaguy: makes me want to go back to removing it ... | 14:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: I wonder about a proposed folder, then move into approved when code goes up, but that feels bad... | 14:23 |
| russellb | sounds like tracking work | 14:24 |
| russellb | and i'm hoping to keep tracking separate | 14:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: how about just saying approved in Juno-1, but first target might be Juno-2, I am ok with that | 14:24 |
| devoid | shouldn't you approve a blueprint separate from code? | 14:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | russellb: yeah, tracking in one place, lp, makes most sense | 14:24 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: OK, but maybe a note to the template and wiki page that clarifies the difference between approving the spec, and targeting to a milestone | 14:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | devoid: we sure will, but don't want to approve too much that no one will ever work on | 14:24 |
| alaski | I'm +1 on removing the milestone stuff from the template fwiw | 14:25 |
| russellb | alaski: yeah +1 i think ... it's confusing | 14:25 |
| PhilD | Maybe we could try and capture what would constitute having a wide range of feedback into the spec review - so for example that there should be some review from an operator, etc ? Feels that's more whats needed than just (has it been open for review X days) | 14:25 |
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| johnthetubaguy | alaski: I just worry there is no way to track the history, but yeah, it seems simpler to remove it at this point, its just confusing :( | 14:25 |
| russellb | PhilD: perhaps, but i think it also depends on the blueprint | 14:25 |
| russellb | there's a lot of blueprint stuff ops aren't going to care about | 14:25 |
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| russellb | or things that are really just not controversial | 14:25 |
| russellb | major refactorings | 14:25 |
| devoid | agreed, it depends on the bp. | 14:26 |
| russellb | maybe case by case, ensure we have sufficient input based on what it is | 14:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | PhilD: neutron patches we wait for neutron core, it seems similar to that kind of thing, just do it case by case? | 14:26 |
| devoid | posts to mailing list and operators can help for things that clearly need operator input. | 14:26 |
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| PhilD | Yeah, its hard to get the balance I know. Just feels that a s John noted a delay here is much better (or at least much less bad) than a delay/rework later on - so we shouldn't be shy of holding off approval in those cases. I'd rather see this stage lean to slower | 14:27 |
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| russellb | good poitn | 14:28 |
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| russellb | it's much less costly to rework a spec than code | 14:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | personally, any new process should feel more lightweight than before, I think letting people do the "right thing" and see what breaks is best here | 14:28 |
| russellb | so we need to ensure we get it right | 14:28 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: agreed | 14:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | PhilD: +1 | 14:28 |
| russellb | but i think the things we've talked about are good principles | 14:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, we should evolve those review guidelines | 14:29 |
| russellb | indeed | 14:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprints#Blueprint_Review_Criteria | 14:29 |
| PhilD | I think its not always easy to devs to judge what does and doesn;t haev an impact on an operator (see some of the recent reverts) - and part of the point of this is to have BPs expressed to the extent that a non-coder can underdstand what's intended | 14:29 |
| russellb | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova-specs/tree/template.rst | 14:30 |
| PhilD | If they can;t then the BP isn't really complete enough IMO | 14:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | PhilD: I would love to see operators join nova-drivers, by participating in lots of nova-specs reviews, just lets see how that goes I think | 14:30 |
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| PhilD | I'll be there ;-) | 14:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | PhilD: the big issue was not having a blueprint that made it clear there was an impact, hopefully we will now be better at that! | 14:31 |
| russellb | any more on blueprints? | 14:31 |
| russellb | it will be an evolving process i'm sure | 14:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | no from me | 14:31 |
| russellb | but appreciate willingness to try it out and evolve | 14:32 |
| devoid | russellb: +1 | 14:32 |
| russellb | helps when nobody likes the current situation, heh | 14:32 |
| PhilD | +1 | 14:32 |
| russellb | #topic open discussion | 14:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 14:32 | |
| russellb | plenty of time for other topics if anyone would like | 14:32 |
| PhilD | Keystone V3 ? | 14:32 |
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| russellb | sure | 14:33 |
| PhilD | Mostly this is a client issue - I was just wondering what plans were for getting V3 support into the client | 14:33 |
| russellb | no plans on my radar | 14:33 |
| russellb | there's been a bit more broad hierarchical multi-tenancy discussion | 14:34 |
| PhilD | Well V2 becomes deprecited in Icehouse, so we'll need to do something | 14:34 |
| russellb | which would require v3 | 14:34 |
| russellb | i think there's some coordination fail in there | 14:34 |
| russellb | i think it's absurd to mark something deprecated when almost every project doesn't support the new thing yet | 14:34 |
| sdague | russellb: agreed | 14:35 |
| * russellb pings to see if dolphm happens to be around | 14:35 | |
| sdague | perhaps that should be on the project meeting for next week | 14:35 |
| mrodden | i think its their way of cracking the whip... | 14:35 |
| PhilD | We want to eb abel to use domains in Keystone, which means you only have to be able to use the V3 into Keystone from Horizon say, but other clients on V2 now need to be able to auch users when there name isn;t unique. You can kind of do this via teh V2 API by going to ID based auth, but that's a bti clutzy (but Ok as a short term move)] | 14:35 |
| russellb | sdague: +1 | 14:36 |
| devoid | ressellb: especially when keystone's cli client doesn't support v3 either. | 14:36 |
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| PhilD | I have patches up for that in nova and neutron client at the moment | 14:36 |
| mrodden | devoid: v3 support comes from openstack client | 14:36 |
| PhilD | And I see that some other piecemeal changes seem to be trying to land | 14:36 |
| russellb | there's some keystone v3 coordination needed across projects, so let's plan to cover that in the next cross project meeting (tuesday) | 14:37 |
| browne | mrodden: yes, but the keystoneclient middleware doesn't support v3 i believe | 14:37 |
| russellb | please join if you're interested and able | 14:37 |
| PhilD | Ok - what time ? | 14:37 |
| PhilD | @browne - I think it does | 14:37 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 14:37 |
| mrodden | browne: yeah i'm not sure about that | 14:37 |
| russellb | 2100 UTC | 14:37 |
| PhilD | Ok, I'll see what I can do | 14:38 |
| russellb | sorry for the rough time | 14:38 |
| devoid | browne, mrodden, the middleware supports v3, just not the cli. but openstack client doesn't have packages available yet. | 14:38 |
| russellb | #note need to discuss keystone v3 support across projects in the next cross project meeting | 14:38 |
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| browne | i may be wrong, but i think the auth_token middleware still only supports getting v2 tokens | 14:39 |
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| russellb | dolph doesn't seem to be around | 14:40 |
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| russellb | another option would be to start a ML thread | 14:40 |
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| russellb | anyone interested in doing that? | 14:40 |
| PhilD | I thought it could be configured to work with v2 and v3, but I could be wrong too - it would be good to get some clartiy about what the planned migration is for s system running V2 to one running V3 | 14:40 |
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| PhilD | Yeah I could do that | 14:41 |
| russellb | ok perfect | 14:41 |
| russellb | much appreciated | 14:41 |
| * johnthetubaguy wonders how long it will be before all clients migrate to v3 keystone | 14:41 | |
| russellb | yes, need to figure out what the migration is expected to look like | 14:41 |
| browne | https://github.com/openstack/python-keystoneclient/blob/master/keystoneclient/middleware/auth_token.py#L764 | 14:42 |
| PhilD | I'm trying to see if we can get our Keystone folks to tackle the v3 for all clients - seems like it would make more sense for them to do it that for each project to have to work out what to do. Most clients don't even include the keystoen client at the moment though | 14:43 |
| russellb | PhilD: +1 | 14:43 |
| PhilD | I said "trying" - I still have some way to go to convince them ;-) | 14:43 |
| russellb | well, personally that's what i expect from all projects | 14:44 |
| PhilD | Of course if only we had a single converged client ..... | 14:44 |
| russellb | just like with nova v3, i expect nova devs to reach out and help do the work to migrate users of nova | 14:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | PhilD: thats looking closer now right? | 14:44 |
| russellb | our client of course, but also help fix horizon, trove, heat | 14:44 |
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| ndipanov | sorry guys forgot about this | 14:45 |
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| russellb | ndipanov: so you had an issue you wanted to bring up? | 14:45 |
| mriedem | oops | 14:45 |
| ndipanov | and my calendar was chillin as well | 14:45 |
| ndipanov | so yeah... I looked into https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/graceful-shutdown | 14:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | we are a bit closer on that one these days right? | 14:46 |
| ndipanov | and apart from a bug in nova that is easy to fix... that makes this dead after switching to oslo | 14:46 |
| ndipanov | I still don't think this is done | 14:47 |
| russellb | ndipanov: incomplete or fundamentally broken? | 14:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | ndipanov: you got that bug? | 14:47 |
| ndipanov | russellb, I'd say incomplete | 14:47 |
| ndipanov | once the service receives one of these signals - for this to work properly it needs to rally wait for every gt to finish | 14:48 |
| ndipanov | and also finish any rpc stuff it has going on | 14:48 |
| ndipanov | but not accept any other connections | 14:48 |
| ndipanov | does that sound sane? | 14:48 |
| ndipanov | johnthetubaguy, yes - it's really tiny | 14:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | ndipanov: I thought that was done already | 14:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | ndipanov: stops getting new rpc messages at least, and waits for current stuff to finish | 14:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | ndipanov: I thought it used to anyway... | 14:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | leifz: ping | 14:50 |
| dansmith | johnthetubaguy: I think he's saying that post oslo-messaging things are different now | 14:50 |
| ndipanov | johnthetubaguy, I don't think so - it just calls (well should) rpc.cleanup() which eventually calls connection.close | 14:50 |
| browne | PhilD: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/030403.html | 14:51 |
| ndipanov | dansmith, I think they aren't fundamentally | 14:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | right I got you, so it got regressed by the oslo changes | 14:51 |
| dansmith | I think we need to stop listening to compute.$host, but leave everything else until all the GTs die, right? | 14:51 |
| ndipanov | dansmith, right | 14:51 |
| ndipanov | dansmith, and that's not what's happening | 14:51 |
| dansmith | otherwise conductor things will just fail | 14:51 |
| dansmith | yeah | 14:51 |
| ndipanov | johnthetubaguy, it did regress from not working to not working even more :) | 14:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | ndipanov: ok… I got the impression the stop listening to the queue stuff got implemented in olso, then sync across, but I have not looked in detail at that… oops | 14:52 |
| ndipanov | well I don't think it is anyway... | 14:52 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ndipanov: that was the intention at least, so I am certainly agreed with you there | 14:53 |
| ndipanov | dansmith, would you say that in order to test this - you could 1) kill the conductor just to cause a call delay | 14:54 |
| ndipanov | 2) boot an instance | 14:54 |
| ndipanov | 3) send SIGINT to compute and restart conductor. | 14:54 |
| ndipanov | 4) see that the boot finishes and then compute dies | 14:55 |
| ndipanov | ? | 14:55 |
| dansmith | ndipanov: manual testing? I'd say start a tempest largeops run against devstack and then kill your compute and see some logs that show it cleaning things up | 14:55 |
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| dansmith | ndipanov: because killing conductor will hide whether you're properly still open for rpc replies I think | 14:55 |
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| ndipanov | hmmm | 14:56 |
| dansmith | it's not going to be an easy test | 14:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, just kill compute, see the rpc count rise as you issue terminate commands to all the vms on the compute? | 14:56 |
| dansmith | maybe just "nova boot foo; sleep 0.5; killall nova-compute" | 14:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | ideally during a snapshot, so you have to wait for the snapshot to finsih, then nova-compute to die | 14:57 |
| dansmith | and then check in the db that it got to active | 14:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | that bp doesn't do any tidy up | 14:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | its just about a kill that waits for current things to finish | 14:57 |
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| johnthetubaguy | (to avoid the need for any tidy up) | 14:58 |
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| dansmith | anyway, we're about out of time, but sounds like some thankin' needs doin' on how to make sure this works | 14:58 |
| russellb | :) | 14:59 |
| russellb | any other topics with 1 minute left? | 14:59 |
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| ndipanov | johnthetubaguy, afaict it doesn't even do that ... it will call service.stop() which just kills gts | 14:59 |
| russellb | k, back to #openstack-nova we go! :) | 14:59 |
| russellb | thanks everyone! | 14:59 |
| russellb | #endmeeting | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 20 14:59:49 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-03-20-14.01.html | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-03-20-14.01.txt | 14:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-03-20-14.01.log.html | 14:59 |
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| bswartz | #startmeeting manila | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 20 15:01:27 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:01 |
| bswartz | hello everyone | 15:01 |
| vponomaryov | Hi | 15:01 |
| xyang1 | hi | 15:01 |
| bswartz | just us 3? | 15:02 |
| bswartz | we can probably make this meeting quick | 15:02 |
| bswartz | we made some good progress last week | 15:02 |
| bswartz | I'm happy about the stuff getting merged | 15:02 |
| bswartz | let's jump right into status | 15:02 |
| bswartz | #topic dev status | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "dev status (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:02 | |
| vponomaryov | Dev status: | 15:02 |
| vponomaryov | 1) Implementation of activation api into multitenant drivers | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | bp: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/manila/+spec/share-network-activation-api | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | 1.1) Cmode driver, #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81744/ | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | 1.2) Generic driver, #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81808/ | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | status: Work in progress. | 15:03 |
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| vponomaryov | 2) Quota for activated share-networks | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | bp: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/manila/+spec/quota-for-share-networks | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | gerrit: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/78974/ | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | gerrit: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/78979/ | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | 3) Router-less connectivity for generic driver | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | bp: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/manila/+spec/direct-service-vm-connectivity | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | gerrit: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80790/ | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | status: Work in progress. | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | TODO: | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | 1) Update Horizon extension for Manila due to API changes, bugfixing | 15:03 |
| vponomaryov | 2) Implement volume types server side | 15:04 |
| vponomaryov | that's all | 15:04 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: you forgot the biggest one! | 15:04 |
| vponomaryov | merged Cmode driver =) | 15:05 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: we merged the full-multitenant cmode driver on tuesday | 15:05 |
| bswartz | some work is still needed but it was polished enough to go in | 15:05 |
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| bswartz | okay so the share-network-activation stuff is good | 15:05 |
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| bswartz | looks like I need to review the quota stuff | 15:06 |
| vponomaryov | at least someone =) | 15:06 |
| xyang1 | glad that the cmode driver got merged! | 15:06 |
| bswartz | anyone have questions on any of the in-progress work? | 15:06 |
| bswartz | xyang1: it took way longer than I expected | 15:06 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz; there are little problem with api for cmode | 15:06 |
| bswartz | xyang1: I think it was improved by the rigorous code reviews though | 15:07 |
| vponomaryov | we can disscuss out of meeting scope | 15:07 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: after we wrap up this meeting I'll PM you | 15:07 |
| bswartz | I'm curious about the image work and the gateway driver but I don't see anyone from redhat | 15:08 |
| vponomaryov | I dont have questions except pm one | 15:08 |
| bswartz | csaba/rraja: ping | 15:08 |
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| bswartz | okay so it looks like we're working on the right stuff | 15:09 |
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| bswartz | my concern at this point is the likelihood of everything we want being done in time for atlanta | 15:10 |
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| xyang1_ | do you think Horizon integration can be done? | 15:10 |
| bswartz | I want to make sure we're communicating accurately about the the progress of development\ | 15:10 |
| bswartz | xyang1_: that work has already started but it's stalled with some of these other infrastructure-related changes | 15:11 |
| bswartz | I'm trying to get more people involved but everyone is very busy :-( | 15:11 |
| bswartz | I'll make sure to communicate to the stakeholders that the schedule is looking risky | 15:11 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: what plans do you have about incubation? | 15:12 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: we plan to meet with the TC around the time of the conference -- I'm not sure if before or after would be better | 15:12 |
| bswartz | there are arguments for both | 15:12 |
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| bswartz | but the target is mid-may | 15:13 |
| vponomaryov | ok, thanks | 15:13 |
| bswartz | #topic open discussion | 15:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:13 | |
| bswartz | anything else for today? | 15:13 |
| vponomaryov | not from me | 15:13 |
| bswartz | must be everyone's on spring break.... | 15:13 |
| xyang1_ | I'm fine | 15:13 |
| bswartz | okay thanks everyone | 15:14 |
| bswartz | #endmeeting | 15:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:14 | |
| xyang1_ | thanks | 15:14 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 20 15:14:08 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:14 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2014/manila.2014-03-20-15.01.html | 15:14 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2014/manila.2014-03-20-15.01.txt | 15:14 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2014/manila.2014-03-20-15.01.log.html | 15:14 |
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| mestery | Hi neutron policy folk! | 19:00 |
| kevinbenton | o/ | 19:00 |
| mestery | #startmeeting networking_policy | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 20 19:00:48 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 19:00 | |
| banix | Hi Kyle and the rest of policy fanatics :) | 19:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_policy' | 19:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mestery, all: hi! | 19:00 |
| cgoncalves | hi all | 19:01 |
| mestery | banix: policy fanatics, love it! :) | 19:01 |
| hemanthravi | hi | 19:01 |
| prasadv | hi there | 19:01 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron_Group_Policy#March_20.2C_2014 Agenda | 19:01 |
| * mestery considers renaming the meeting "policy fanatics" in honor of banix's comment. | 19:01 | |
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| rkukura | hi | 19:01 |
| banix | :) | 19:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mestery banix: +1 :-) | 19:01 |
| mandeep | hi | 19:01 |
| mestery | #topic Action Item Review | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action Item Review (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 19:01 | |
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| mestery | A very light action item review to start today. | 19:02 |
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| rms_13_ | hello | 19:02 |
| mestery | Just a note to continue updating the model with SumitNaiksatam for folks who haven't done so already. | 19:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mestery: we had numerous discussions | 19:02 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | mestery: we are making progress | 19:02 |
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| mestery | SumitNaiksatam: Very good! Was this all updated in your Google doc/ppt? | 19:03 |
| mestery | If so, can you #link it here? | 19:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mestery: yes, and banix has updated as well | 19:03 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | mestery: #link https://docs.google.com/a/noironetworks.com/presentation/d/1Nn1HjghAvk2RTPwvltSrnCUJkidWKWY2ckU7OYAVNpo/edit#slide=id.g1c910cf8b_00 | 19:03 |
| mestery | Great teamwork! | 19:03 |
| mestery | #link https://docs.google.com/a/noironetworks.com/presentation/d/1Nn1HjghAvk2RTPwvltSrnCUJkidWKWY2ckU7OYAVNpo/edit#slide=id.g1c910cf8b_00 Policy Model Presentation | 19:03 |
| mestery | Thanks SumitNaiksatam! | 19:03 |
| mestery | #topic PoC Brainstorm | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PoC Brainstorm (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 19:03 | |
| mestery | I thought it would be good to spend the bulk of this meeting agreeing on the use case(s) we want the PoC to cover. | 19:04 |
| mestery | Does that sound fair to folks? | 19:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yeah | 19:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | high time :-) | 19:04 |
| prasadv | yes | 19:04 |
| banix | yes | 19:04 |
| mestery | Cool. :) | 19:04 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: sorry for reading the updated doc before the meeting; quickly glanced over, how do I specify qos parameters with the new policy-rule structure? | 19:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: still work in progress :-) | 19:04 |
| mandeep | The prototype use-case in the blueprint is the 3-tier app, should we focus on that as the PoC use case? | 19:05 |
| banix | The suggestion to have a use case for the PoC, or essentially having a demo we work towards realizing by the summit time is very good | 19:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: needless to say, feel free to add your comments (you did a lot of work on the actions earlier) | 19:05 |
| mestery | mandeep: That seems reasonable to me. | 19:05 |
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| banix | I think lets step back a bit | 19:05 |
| banix | with respect to the Poc | 19:06 |
| mandeep | Note tho' the real value of the policy framework shows up when we start adding the lifecycle events - and they need to be flushed out better | 19:06 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: yes, I was defining policy-rule originally - the new structure certainly lacks the extensibility that we targeted at that time | 19:06 |
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| banix | we want to show case the capability of the policy framework, so as such we have to demonstrate why using such a policy makes life easier or better | 19:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: ok lets discuss that (as follow up perhaps?) | 19:06 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | banix: +1 | 19:06 |
| s3wong | don't get me wrong, a good start nevertheless :-) | 19:07 |
| mestery | banix: That's ag ood point, aligns with what mandeep is indicating as well. | 19:07 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | banix: please go on | 19:07 |
| banix | the three tier case is good case but I think the punch line would be how we end up realizing it in an application centric way | 19:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | banix: you have some thoughts? | 19:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | banix: absolutely | 19:07 |
| mestery | Agreed banix. | 19:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so far i think we have been thinking about how we can realize the legacy model using this new model | 19:08 |
| banix | SO I am saying the power should come out as how easy it is for end users/apps define and deploy these policies | 19:08 |
| mestery | I think both banix and SumitNaiksatam are bringing up good points here. | 19:08 |
| banix | SumitNaiksatam: Agree, which is necessary but we need to go beyond that | 19:09 |
| mandeep | banix: Yes. Clear sepration on app/infra concerns - and automatic deduction of specific low level details | 19:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | banix: just typing that its necessary but not sufficient | 19:09 |
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| * SumitNaiksatam thinks banix can mind read :-) | 19:09 | |
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| banix | man deep, SumitNaiksatam: exactly | 19:09 |
| hemanthravi | mandeep: by lifecycle events, do you mean adding endpoints into a group and having the policy apply auto | 19:09 |
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| mandeep | hemanthravi: That, and other more dynamic ganges -like new consumers, new infra policy like "inspect all external traffic by IDS", etc | 19:10 |
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| mestery | OK, so circling back here, do we need to go beyond 3-tier app for the PoC? | 19:12 |
| mandeep | In particular, with initial app creation, then updating the app policy, updating the infra policy, updating connectivity issues (like subnets, routes, service insertion, etc) | 19:12 |
| s3wong | mandeep: that would be more a UI functions, our Neutron APIs would still be 'redirect' to service that happens to be IDS | 19:12 |
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| prasadv | are we saying that we will demo 3 tier model and then show agility of using this for dynamic changes will show the power of group policy? | 19:12 |
| s3wong | mestery: I would think if we can do end to end 3-tier app for PoC, that would already be very good | 19:12 |
| banix | I think if we demonstrate how easily we can deploy a three tier app with a simple heat template with little reference to the nuts and bolts of "networking"" being used that would be a good start. What do you think? There is a few neat things we can build on top of that but is this a good start? other suggestions? | 19:12 |
| mandeep | s3wong: In the model, you want to do that without impacting the provider contract since that is an app constraint orthogonal to the app concerns | 19:13 |
| s3wong | that is, from Horizon -> Heat template -> Neutron...etc | 19:13 |
| mestery | s3wong: Fair point, just want to make sure everyone is in agreement on the 3-tier app being enough. | 19:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: playing devil's advocate - you can realize the same three tier app using legacy model | 19:13 |
| mandeep | banix: Sounds interesting, but adds heat to PoC [tho' it might be worth it] | 19:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i think its good to add heat to the PoC | 19:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | but we have to be careful here | 19:14 |
| mestery | +1 to adding heat | 19:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we need to show clear separation of concerns | 19:14 |
| mestery | It stresses the value of the abstractions we have come up with | 19:14 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: absolutely. Reference to banix 's presentation back in the I-Summit; instead of using 20 Neutron APIs, we are now using 5 | 19:14 |
| mandeep | My concern was not about it being good, but about resources ;-) | 19:14 |
| mestery | mandeep: :) | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | people often tend to ask as to whether the policy model is merely orchestration, that can be subsumed in heat | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i don't agree with that | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | but if we drive this from heat | 19:15 |
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| mandeep | Yes, and PoC can answer that question | 19:15 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: and that most of the construct abstracts out the port/address level knowledge | 19:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we might loose those people | 19:15 |
| banix | s3wong: that's what I was going to add, and in that presentation towards the end there are a couple of things that go beyond simple 3-tier | 19:15 |
| banix | SumitNaiksatam: that is a very good point that point was raised in the summit | 19:16 |
| prasadv | sumitnaiksatam: There is a little bit of overlap with heat though | 19:16 |
| mandeep | banix: Can you send a link to your presentation? | 19:16 |
| prasadv | we need to be clear as to the boundaries | 19:16 |
| banix | sure. let me dig it out. | 19:16 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | prasadv: i agree, and we need to have a crisp understanding of this, which we will, but difficult to convey to others who see this for the first time | 19:16 |
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| prasadv | and yes I like having heat in it answer questions | 19:16 |
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| mandeep | prasadv: Yes, that is why we need to be crisp as SumitNaiksatam identified | 19:17 |
| prasadv | particularly dynamic changes and instantiation | 19:17 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | i would dare to suggest, lets try to bring out the value in this PoC without using Heat | 19:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so as not to confuse the audience | 19:17 |
| banix | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/openstack-summit-hong-kong-2013/session-videos/presentation/network-abstraction-at-different-layers-of-the-stack | 19:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | just a thought | 19:17 |
| prasadv | +1 | 19:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | besides, per mandeep i am not sure we have the resources either | 19:17 |
| banix | will find the pdf; watching the video may be painful :) | 19:18 |
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| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: I think using application template as a frontend is one of the major advantages of group-policy, no? | 19:18 |
| mandeep | prasadv: Exactly. It is in dynamic behavior that policy really differentiates over heat type of ochestration | 19:18 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so it might just be infeasible from a resource perspective to do it (in which case we don't have a choice) | 19:18 |
| mandeep | banix: thanks | 19:18 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: not disagreeing with that | 19:18 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: but then the policy abstractions are probably lost on the people | 19:19 |
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| mestery | It's a fine balance SumitNaiksatam, I agree. | 19:19 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mestery: yeah | 19:19 |
| banix | SumitNaiksatam: what do you suggest that we show? Let's say we do not use heat, you are suggesting something like a 3-tier app or something different? | 19:19 |
| SumitNaiksatam | okay, so i am just thinking loud | 19:20 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: if not using Heat, we have to pick something else to emphasize (more visually) for people to see the advantage of group-policy | 19:20 |
| banix | mastery, Sumit: yeah I agree, we need be careful of that concern | 19:20 |
| rms_13_ | Cant we do primary demo WITHOUT heat to clarify policy concept; and than add heat in a last few minute doing same stuff as a quick video? | 19:20 |
| banix | that issue will come up as it did during the design session | 19:20 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | rms_13_: yes, sure | 19:20 |
| s3wong | rms_13_: interesting suggestion | 19:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: visually can be achieved with horizon integration, no? | 19:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok, i also don't want us to miss the main point of this discussion, which is the use case | 19:21 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: perhaps visually is a poor way to say it - to demo the ease of operation via group-policy | 19:21 |
| banix | yes lets focus on the use case | 19:21 |
| prasadv | sumitnaiksatam: we would need a policy builder in UO right? | 19:21 |
| prasadv | *UI | 19:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we can decide on heat or not later | 19:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | prasadv: well, at least some representation | 19:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so coming back to the use case | 19:22 |
| mandeep | We do have a PoC doc, should this discussion move to that doc? | 19:22 |
| banix | SumitNaiksatam: Please go ahead; Do you have any particular use case in mind | 19:22 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mandeep: yeah we can put thoughts on the doc | 19:23 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: use case? | 19:23 |
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| rms_13_ | 3-tier app is something which people would relate to very easily as a use case. Solving that end to end + "just mentioning" few more should suffice | 19:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong banix: it was more of a question | 19:23 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | i think 3-tier is good, but the same can be shown with a single tier as well | 19:24 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: please elaborate | 19:24 |
| banix | so let's develop that single tier use case a bit further | 19:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: i mean the benefits we are trying to show for the policy model | 19:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: multiple tiers would be an extension of that | 19:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | but really, the benefit should be evident even with a single tier | 19:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i am not saying that we will not show 3-tier | 19:26 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | but for our own understanding, i think we need to flesh out a single tier | 19:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | workflow, etc | 19:26 |
| banix | let's see what we have in that single tier, so we can decide ... | 19:26 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam banix: for those who are interested, the ODL project google doc has TONS of use cases | 19:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | banix: go ahead | 19:27 |
| s3wong | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/12Z1JHhCFS6ta-ux3UdUbFaEPzAig_3Xgnbj29Nejfug/edit | 19:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: thanks | 19:27 |
| prasadv | i think showing single tier with redirection and allow/deny would be good to show? | 19:27 |
| * mestery has walked through those use cases far too many times. :P | 19:27 | |
| banix | then we can see if we need to build on it to make it more interesting (assuming we have time to do that) | 19:27 |
| banix | Sumit: That was more of a suggestion to you :) | 19:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mestery: i think stands out to you from venturing there? | 19:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | *anything | 19:28 |
| prasadv | in a way that is 2 tier - service tier and app tier | 19:28 |
| banix | prasadv: that makse more sense | 19:28 |
| mestery | SumitNaiksatam: I think we should try to keep it simple at first to prove the points as you say, then see how far we can take it. Sound good? | 19:28 |
| banix | I think that is probably what Sumit and others mean by a single tier | 19:28 |
| mandeep | agreed | 19:28 |
| banix | mestery: yes | 19:28 |
| prasadv | so internal users go through simpler service tier and external users go through more secure tier? | 19:28 |
| mestery | Agreed banix | 19:29 |
| mandeep | prasadv: yes | 19:29 |
| prasadv | we show case tags, classifers etc | 19:29 |
| s3wong | prasadv: that probably already requires labels, right? | 19:29 |
| prasadv | not tags but labels | 19:29 |
| banix | let's not get into details of how we do it | 19:29 |
| mestery | Yes, the doc can have details right? | 19:29 |
| nbouthors_ | that looks like a data center access use case | 19:29 |
| banix | right, let's focus on what we want to demo such that we showcase the power of policies. makes sense? | 19:30 |
| mandeep | mestery: banix: Yes, let move this to doc, IRC is probably not the best way to work out the PoC details | 19:30 |
| prasadv | nbouthers_: it is application deployment use case | 19:30 |
| mestery | #action Team to flesh out PoC details in doc | 19:30 |
| banix | then we go back to work as how we can realize that demo | 19:30 |
| mestery | mandeep: Do you have the link for that doc we can post here? | 19:30 |
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| mandeep | mestery: let me get it. | 19:31 |
| mestery | Thanks mandeep! | 19:31 |
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| s3wong | https://docs.google.com/a/midokura.com/document/d/14UyvBkptmrxB9FsWEP8PEGv9kLqTQbsmlRxnqeF9Be8/edit | 19:31 |
| s3wong | here it is :-) | 19:31 |
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| s3wong | the great PoC doc :-) | 19:31 |
| mandeep | #link https://docs.google.com/a/noironetworks.com/document/d/14UyvBkptmrxB9FsWEP8PEGv9kLqTQbsmlRxnqeF9Be8/edit | 19:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: thanks :-) | 19:31 |
| banix | s3wong: thanks | 19:32 |
| s3wong | with about 5 lines of text :-) | 19:32 |
| mestery | Thanks s3wong and mandeep! | 19:32 |
| mestery | Ha! | 19:32 |
| mestery | :) | 19:32 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | if you have to make a start somewhere :-) | 19:32 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: as you can see we had no idea what we wanted to demo :-) | 19:32 |
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| banix | yeah, so prasadv: can you elaborate as the use case you mentioned | 19:33 |
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| mestery | s3wong: :) | 19:33 |
| banix | s/as/about | 19:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: i guess its called evolution :-) | 19:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | organic evolution | 19:33 |
| prasadv | banix: I was thinking we can deploy a app tier say lamp stack with redirection to service layer | 19:33 |
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| prasadv | say a firewall | 19:34 |
| banix | prasadv: thanks | 19:34 |
| prasadv | just thinking aloud around single tier showcase | 19:35 |
| cgoncalves | prasadv: or firewall+lb? :-) | 19:35 |
| s3wong | thinking outloud for PoC timeframe - API we can do whatever we want, so the limiting factor is OVS | 19:35 |
| prasadv | cgoncalves: yes, some appliance(s) | 19:35 |
| s3wong | prasadv 's suggestion seems to be feasible for OVS support POV | 19:35 |
| banix | I think with a use case like the above we may run into ta question like: couldn't you do that today, using fwaas for example | 19:35 |
| s3wong | banix: true, it is also not really "application" perspective... | 19:36 |
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| mandeep | banix: You could. The claim is that it is a higher level description on intent that may be realized using existing capabilities (or we can create new ones) | 19:37 |
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| prasadv | i am hoping it to be more than Fwaas with connectivity groups, Allow/deny | 19:37 |
| banix | mandeep: yes, exactly, somehow we have to showcase that aspect of what we are doing | 19:38 |
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| mandeep | banix: Agreed | 19:38 |
| banix | Using Heat is a convincing option (again assuming we have time to get there); if not what other options do we have | 19:38 |
| banix | just asking the question | 19:39 |
| s3wong | use case should be from user perspective. So it should start with "I am an app owner, I want to deploy an app... | 19:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i think of to consider the "app developer" role | 19:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | * i think we have to | 19:39 |
| prasadv | s3wong: I agree | 19:39 |
| banix | prasadv: I think a single firewall would be fine, the point that we need to demonstrate is how we get to deploy it | 19:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: exactly | 19:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | lets not get into the capabilities of services | 19:40 |
| banix | s3wong: agrees | 19:40 |
| mandeep | SumitNaiksatam: Agreed | 19:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i think that is bit orthogonal | 19:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mandeep earlier mentioned about lifecycle events | 19:40 |
| banix | yes, the service itself not that important | 19:40 |
| banix | any service would do; even one i think is fine | 19:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i think that is tied into the "app developer's" role | 19:40 |
| SumitNaiksatam | in the sense that, what he has to do today with the legacy abstractions | 19:41 |
| SumitNaiksatam | versus what he would have to do with the new policy abstractions | 19:41 |
| banix | can you state the lifecyle events again | 19:41 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i will conveniently punt that to mandeep :-P | 19:41 |
| banix | or I can go back above and read what you had said :) | 19:41 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: agree - very simply, if I add a VM into my application pool, I need to connect vport to network, update security group...etc | 19:42 |
| mandeep | 1. Create (where the intent is expressed and low level automation is done) | 19:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: yes, nicely put | 19:42 |
| rms_13_ | Just thinking loud here: would it make sense to create a video of achieving our use-case by today's model. Than explaining and demoing ease/differentiation policy provides for doing same thing? | 19:42 |
| s3wong | now you can simply do it via automatically adding the new VM vport in a EPG | 19:42 |
| mandeep | 2. Update app behavior - Say updates to contarcts | 19:42 |
| mandeep | 3. Updates to infrastructure | 19:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rms_13_: good point, we should | 19:42 |
| mandeep | 4. Dynamic binding | 19:42 |
| banix | rms_13_: sure but lets see what use case we pick first | 19:42 |
| mestery | +1 to that rms_13_. | 19:43 |
| mandeep | 5. Infrastructure based modulation (say QoS or path selection or service selection) | 19:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mandeep: perhaps you can add to the doc, i think we all need to be on the same on this basic understanding | 19:43 |
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| mandeep | Yes, I will do that | 19:44 |
| banix | So I had this simple example, would that be a simple case of what you are describing' this example: | 19:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | currently we don't have a "app developer" role in neutron | 19:44 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | mandeep: thanks | 19:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | banix: go ahead | 19:44 |
| prasadv | maybe we should have an action item to have couple of proposals presented by individuals or groups next week | 19:45 |
| * s3wong waiting on banix... :-) | 19:45 | |
| banix | You specify a policy where you employ a loadbalancer between two groups (a provider and a consumer in new model); then adding a new endpoint to the group will automatically lead to the loadbalancer to adding it to its pool | 19:45 |
| * banix is slow | 19:46 | |
| * SumitNaiksatam knew banix was coming up with something deep | 19:46 | |
| s3wong | banix: that seems to require us to add members to the pool for an LBaaS instance | 19:46 |
| s3wong | which isn't one of our defined actions at this point... | 19:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: loadbalancer config will be required but thats orthogonal | 19:47 |
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| banix | s3wong: yes but the point is you don't do it (at the user level), it happens because of the policy being there | 19:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | banix: i think you will still required the LB config | 19:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | *require | 19:47 |
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| s3wong | banix: but how is it represented by what we have in group-policy today - that is, how do I set up such contract? | 19:48 |
| SumitNaiksatam | banix: but there is still value here | 19:48 |
| banix | yes to all the above but that is the type of thing lifecycle events man deep was explaining would do? | 19:48 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | banix: true, perhaps not use the loadbalancer | 19:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | banix: just say, add another VM to the end point group? | 19:49 |
| banix | exactly | 19:49 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | banix: or another end point, that is | 19:50 |
| banix | that's what I said or thought i was saying | 19:50 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: now that makes sense, as a new endpoint to EPG will automatically get the new endpoint to inherit all the policy atrributes | 19:50 |
| banix | "then adding a new endpoint to the group " | 19:50 |
| mandeep | banix: I think we need to get this all in doc, there are too many issues here to get into on the IRC (I am an IRC newbie) | 19:50 |
| banix | "will automatically lead to" | 19:51 |
| banix | yes | 19:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mandeep: yeah, difficult to do this without diagrams :-) | 19:51 |
| s3wong | or whiteboard :-) | 19:51 |
| banix | so the question is not this particular example but is this what we want to aim for | 19:51 |
| banix | this type of capability, i mean | 19:52 |
| mestery | OK, so at this point, should we just focus on getting this into the doc? | 19:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yeah, i think banix is validating the understanding of "lifecycle events" | 19:52 |
| mestery | It seems we have only 8 minutes left anyways. :) | 19:52 |
| openstack-meetin | I have writeup of mucb of this tbat Im drafting for ODL GBP and ONF NBI ( how gbp info model achieves a bunch ofuse cases) | 19:52 |
| s3wong | banix: yes, this simple use case should demostrate ease of operation of GBP | 19:52 |
| prasadv | mestery: can we move this meeting up an hour? | 19:52 |
| mandeep | banix: Yes, we need to aim to show value as you identified, but I think we are getting mixed up with the scope issues (say LBaaS is included in POC or not) | 19:52 |
| prasadv | for people who are making trek to noiro for ODL group policy meeting | 19:53 |
| mestery | prasadv: OK, let me look into that. | 19:53 |
| mestery | #action mestery to look at moving meeting up one hour. | 19:53 |
| s3wong | Hmm... what is openstack-meetin talking about? I am a bit lost | 19:53 |
| mestery | s3wong: Same here. | 19:53 |
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| prasadv | mestery:thanks | 19:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | openstack-meetin: can you identify yourself? ;-P | 19:54 |
| s3wong | prasadv: amazing, I am OK with the time - being in the ODL meeting couple minutes late isn't a big deal - as webex setup typically takes that much time anyway :-) | 19:54 |
| openstack-meetin | Sorry dave lenrow, new irc client | 19:54 |
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| banix | Openstack-meetin: I am what controls everything from behind the scene: I am openstack! | 19:55 |
| banix | just kidding | 19:55 |
| mestery | Ha! I like the nic openstack-meetin ;) | 19:55 |
| mestery | OK, 5 minutes left folks. | 19:55 |
| banix | Almost out of time | 19:55 |
| mestery | Should we move to the document at this point? | 19:55 |
| mestery | #topic Closing Thoughts | 19:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Closing Thoughts (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 19:55 | |
| s3wong | mestery: absolutely | 19:55 |
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| mestery | OK, cool. | 19:55 |
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| banix | yes but we need to close on this rather quickly. right? | 19:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | dlenrow: welcome! | 19:56 |
| s3wong | I will work with SumitNaiksatam on policy-rule definition refinement | 19:56 |
| SumitNaiksatam | banix: agree | 19:56 |
| dlenrow | I want to get doc aligned to neutron GBP POC work | 19:56 |
| mestery | dlenrow: That's a good goal! | 19:56 |
| s3wong | dlenrow: which doc? | 19:57 |
| banix | dlenrow: any loiters will be helpful | 19:57 |
| banix | pointers | 19:57 |
| SumitNaiksatam | dlenrow: which doc are you referring to? | 19:57 |
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| dlenrow | Doc Im drafting for ODL GBP (next call) | 19:57 |
| mestery | :) | 19:58 |
| mandeep | dlenrow: Got it | 19:58 |
| * s3wong has no idea there is another doc for ODL project, but whatever :-) | 19:58 | |
| mestery | s3wong: Docs for everyone! :P | 19:58 |
| mestery | OK, lets call this meeting now. | 19:58 |
| mestery | Lets get the PoC use case doc finished for next week's meeting if we can. | 19:59 |
| mestery | Sound good? | 19:59 |
| banix | let's work on the poc use case through email | 19:59 |
| SumitNaiksatam | yeah | 19:59 |
| s3wong | mestery: as you know, we started off with a doc which now points to another doc :-) | 19:59 |
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| mestery | s3wong: Doc abstraction :) | 19:59 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: lol! | 19:59 |
| mestery | OK, thanks folks! | 19:59 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 20 19:59:29 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_policy/2014/networking_policy.2014-03-20-19.00.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_policy/2014/networking_policy.2014-03-20-19.00.txt | 19:59 |
| s3wong | thanks guys! | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_policy/2014/networking_policy.2014-03-20-19.00.log.html | 19:59 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | see you in a bit guys ;-) | 19:59 |
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| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: see you in 10 minutes :-) | 19:59 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: ;-P | 20:00 |
| banix | or 15? | 20:00 |
| s3wong | banix: depends on traffic :-) | 20:00 |
| banix | I see :) | 20:00 |
| s3wong | out :-) | 20:00 |
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| banix | so you guys are that close to each other; assuming you don't do IRC while driving! | 20:00 |
| banix | bye | 20:00 |
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| mandeep | banix: we can do hangout | 20:01 |
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| banix | mandeep: yes, lets do that | 20:01 |
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| banix | mandeep: will you be taking the initiative to schedule that? | 20:02 |
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| mandeep | banix: Yes, either me or SumitNaiksatam will do that. | 20:02 |
| mandeep | banix: ok, bye | 20:02 |
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| banix | mandeep: ok thanks | 20:03 |
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| markwash | #startmeeting glance | 20:10 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 20 20:10:20 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is markwash. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:10 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:10 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'glance' | 20:10 |
| ameade | lol | 20:10 |
| gokrokve | :-) | 20:10 |
| markwash | Sorry folks, I accidentally started the meeting in the wrong room | 20:10 |
| nikhil__ | o/ | 20:10 |
| ameade | man how did we all miss that? | 20:10 |
| arnaud__ | hello :) | 20:10 |
| markwash | quick roll call for the eavesdrop logs | 20:10 |
| gokrokve | I usually monitor both | 20:10 |
| markwash | o/ | 20:10 |
| gokrokve | \o | 20:10 |
| markwash | okay great | 20:11 |
| markwash | So, as I mentioned in the other room, lets quickly form an agenda for today | 20:11 |
| ameade | markwash: so i think i am going to start pushing for the 'brick' library to get out of cinder and then help zhiyan with the cinder store code at some point | 20:12 |
| gokrokve | *) Glance V2 state and future | 20:12 |
| arnaud__ | Nova new blueprint process: applicable for glance? | 20:12 |
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| markwash | other items before we get started ? | 20:13 |
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| markwash | (items to add to the agenda) | 20:13 |
| markwash | okay! I'll ask again when we finish | 20:13 |
| gokrokve | ok | 20:13 |
| markwash | if you don't mind, lets learn about the blueprint stuff first | 20:14 |
| markwash | #topic new nova blueprint process (arnaud__) | 20:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "new nova blueprint process (arnaud__) (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:14 | |
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| markwash | arnaud__: floor is yours, please inform us | 20:14 |
| arnaud__ | so the idea is to use gerrit | 20:14 |
| arnaud__ | Russel sent an email a few hours ago | 20:14 |
| arnaud__ | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprints#Nova | 20:15 |
| arnaud__ | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova-specs/tree/template.rst | 20:15 |
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| markwash | interesting idea | 20:16 |
| nikhil__ | wow, like the last link | 20:16 |
| markwash | should we take a look at the ML and other resources and revisit it next meeting? | 20:16 |
| arnaud__ | sounds good | 20:16 |
| markwash | I think we all know there is a lot left to be desired by the current blueprint process, even with my attempt at a polish-up | 20:17 |
| ameade | +1 | 20:17 |
| arnaud__ | my feeling is that I like the idea, but I think having 1 process for 1 O/S project and a different one for all the others is a bit weird | 20:17 |
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| arnaud__ | let's continue this next week then | 20:17 |
| markwash | arnaud__: thanks for bringing it to our attention! | 20:18 |
| markwash | #topic brick driver (ameade) | 20:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "brick driver (ameade) (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:18 | |
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| markwash | ameade: floor is yours if you can elaborate a bit on your update | 20:18 |
| ameade | so basically, this bp has been around for awhile: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/+spec/glance-cinder-driver | 20:18 |
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| ameade | it seems the only blocker for it's completion is the Brick library | 20:19 |
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| ameade | which is the attach/detach code currently in cinder | 20:19 |
| ameade | i just want to make sure we are good with the plan before i push this as a use case for brick | 20:19 |
| markwash | ameade: there is a little issue that I'm worried about there, maybe we can help resolve it to clarify this blueprint | 20:20 |
| markwash | cinder will only store raw images, right? | 20:20 |
| ameade | markwash: actually it will not care about the bits and act soley as a store | 20:20 |
| markwash | ah | 20:21 |
| ameade | for image upload it would create a volume, attach to the volume, upload the image bits | 20:21 |
| zhiyan | ameade: iirc, i think there are three steps to make cinder-store be normal: 1. brick lib. 2. multi-attaching 3. store enhancements (add add(), delete() and etc. ) | 20:21 |
| markwash | if I upload a qcow2 to glance, and we want to use the cinder driver, what does it do? | 20:21 |
| ameade | i do think however that if someone did upload a 'raw' image it could then lead to more enhancements such as no copy boot from volume | 20:21 |
| ameade | markwash: it would just be a cinder volume with the qcow2 bits in it | 20:22 |
| arnaud__ | ameade: do you know what is done/need to be done in for the brick library? | 20:22 |
| ameade | zhiyan: +1, multi-attach for brick is also a blocker | 20:22 |
| ameade | arnaud__: I don't know all the details but i think it boils down to talking with jgriffith (cinder ptl), ripping the code out, and supporting multiple attaching to volumes | 20:23 |
| arnaud__ | ok | 20:23 |
| zhiyan | ameade: and as we discussed, if we want to go "second" way, I think there's no any enhancement be needed on glance side. | 20:23 |
| markwash | ameade: I guess I don't see why we would want to store qcow2 bits in a cinder volume exactly. . since then I guess we wouldn't be able to attach or boot the cinder volume | 20:24 |
| ameade | zhiyan: correct, the 'second' way being nova using brick directly | 20:24 |
| ameade | markwash: it just wouldn't be a bootable volume at that point | 20:24 |
| markwash | I guess what I'm getting at is that cinder seems to depend on supporting multiformat images | 20:25 |
| ameade | but it would open up storing images on a ton of block storage backends | 20:25 |
| zhiyan | ameade: hmm, actually in nova side, even we have not brick, we could leverage existing volumes.py directly, those are existing volume attachment code | 20:25 |
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| ameade | markwash: why is that exactly? | 20:26 |
| markwash | it just seems uneven if we make a store that works specially with raw images formats | 20:26 |
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| markwash | especially since we might like to store the same image in qcow2 on swift and in raw on cinder | 20:27 |
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| zhiyan | i'm a little confused, i think there's no any limitation on image formation. volume can save any bits of image, | 20:27 |
| markwash | so I'm just wondering if it makes more sense to actually pull out the cinder driver and then figure out how to do it over with multiformat images | 20:27 |
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| markwash | zhiyan: but your goal is zero copy boot, right? | 20:28 |
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| zhiyan | markwash: that's any other topic, for example, with image-handler support, we can do zero-copy provisioning with glance-vmware-store | 20:28 |
| zhiyan | markwash: but on the same time, glance-vmware-store can support original provisioning approach: downloading | 20:29 |
| markwash | it feels a bit of a special case to have a client side logic that says "if location type = X and format = Y: do something amazing; else: do something normal" | 20:30 |
| markwash | a bit *too* special | 20:30 |
| zhiyan | markwash: IMO, iiuc, there's any assumption on store level | 20:30 |
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| ameade | markwash: i think even if we ignore the super awesome special case there is still value to storing images in cinder | 20:31 |
| zhiyan | markwash: even we go this logic on client, i think it is: "if location type = X" (no format = Y) | 20:31 |
| zhiyan | ameade: +1 | 20:31 |
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| zhiyan | there's no any direct relationship, iiuc | 20:31 |
| markwash | ameade: but in that case, why just images? shouldn't we work on making cinder drivers work as backends to swift somehow? | 20:31 |
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| zhiyan | swift is a object storage but *block* | 20:32 |
| gokrokve | I actually have a question from our team about ceph | 20:32 |
| gokrokve | Thay were trying to add ceph support to nova to boot from ceph storage | 20:32 |
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| markwash | zhiyan: right, but the store is an abstraction to object storage, not block storage | 20:32 |
| markwash | a qcow2 is an object, not a block | 20:32 |
| gokrokve | but now they have to rebase their changes together with nova on Glance v2 api | 20:33 |
| zhiyan | i think the original idea of cinder store is to make glance support different block storage as single | 20:33 |
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| zhiyan | qcow2 is a block device image | 20:33 |
| markwash | right, so if I read a qcow2 file, I can produce a block device abstraction from it | 20:33 |
| markwash | but the file is a file is an object | 20:33 |
| zhiyan | interesting idea | 20:34 |
| markwash | I can't encode a block Foo as qcow2, upload it to cinder, and then use it as the block Foo. . I can only use to read the file Foo.qcow2 | 20:34 |
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| markwash | to me its fine to allow raw images in the glance cinder store | 20:36 |
| markwash | and thats' consistent with what we were trying to achieve with the cinder store | 20:36 |
| markwash | but putting any other format is not appropriate | 20:36 |
| markwash | because it doesn't fit the expectations of being a block device | 20:36 |
| ameade | i can see where you are coming from | 20:37 |
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| ameade | it's kind of a hack | 20:37 |
| markwash | if we made something like "cinder_location" that wasn't a store location, then we could accomplish this hack a bit more cleanly | 20:37 |
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| zhiyan | we can store that qcow2 *file* to s3/swift object storage *or* storage store, like filesystem | 20:38 |
| markwash | all we really want is metadata to the client that says "this image is already stored as a block device <here>" | 20:38 |
| zhiyan | some of those stores which current glance supported are object store, and some are block store (except cinder), am i right? | 20:39 |
| zhiyan | markwash: iiuc, this way should be cover by multi-location? | 20:39 |
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| markwash | zhiyan: I don't think it should really be covered by multi-location either, because we need to distinguish between replica locations that are different just for network performance, and alternative formats that are available | 20:40 |
| markwash | and this is partly represented by the fact that currently the format is an attribute of the image, not the locaiton | 20:40 |
| markwash | and there is not a backwards compatible migration path to move format from the image to the location | 20:40 |
| zhiyan | markwash: ok let's say multi-location for the same format image case. | 20:41 |
| markwash | so for v2, i think we should add something like "volume location" as metadata and just put cinder or other use cases through that metadata | 20:41 |
| markwash | would that idea work and help unblock the core use cases of zero copy boot ? | 20:42 |
| markwash | ameade: though I guess you have some other use cases like being able to use netapp as your backing store, right? | 20:42 |
| zhiyan | markwash: hum..i believe the original cinder-store idea is that try to use a single store to enable more block backend storage supporting for glance, in short it might leverage cinder capabilities for glance, and de-duplicate store driver implementations | 20:43 |
| ameade | markwash: yeah, i think maybe we should get back to this next week | 20:43 |
| markwash | ameade: yeah, I'd love to sit down with you sometime before then to make sure I understand and properly appreciate your goals, I don't want to just be negative like this :-) | 20:44 |
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| zhiyan | it will be cool if someone could let me know the whole picture | 20:44 |
| ameade | markwash: yeah definitely, it's good to think through these concerns :) | 20:44 |
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| markwash | zhiyan: that's interesting, maybe we can separate that use case out from the zero-copy use case and present things a bit differently | 20:45 |
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| markwash | but perhaps we should move on | 20:45 |
| markwash | zhiyan: would you like a chance to meet about this next week as well? | 20:46 |
| zhiyan | yes! | 20:46 |
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| zhiyan | and i'd like to know the whole use case before meeting disucssion | 20:46 |
| markwash | okay, lets follow up | 20:47 |
| markwash | next topic for today | 20:47 |
| markwash | #topic Glance V2 state and future (gokrokve) | 20:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Glance V2 state and future (gokrokve) (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:47 | |
| gokrokve | Yes. | 20:47 |
| markwash | care to introduce it, gokrokve | 20:47 |
| gokrokve | I just want to understand will it be changed significantly in Juno? | 20:48 |
| gokrokve | I am aware of one chnage related to artifacts. | 20:48 |
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| gokrokve | But as I see there are discussions about locations support. | 20:48 |
| markwash | gokrokve: plans are still a bit unclear I suppose | 20:49 |
| gokrokve | We have a team who tryed to add ceph support to nova to boot directly from ceph volume. | 20:49 |
| markwash | taking a look at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/future I think I see mostly tasks stuff in addition to the artifacts | 20:49 |
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| gokrokve | They asked me either they can rebase theis patches on current Glance v2 and do nova migration to Glance v2, or they should wait for V2 is stable. | 20:49 |
| arnaud__ | gokrokve: do you plan to use the image handler? | 20:50 |
| markwash | gokrokve: I think glance v2 core functionality will not change, and we are committed to backwards compatibility | 20:50 |
| zhiyan | gokrokve: i'm not sure we are doing similar things for zero-copy provisiong for ceph backend. | 20:51 |
| gokrokve | Heh I got this question 30 minutes ago. I have no ide how it works. Probably with image handler. | 20:51 |
| arnaud__ | gokrokve: I think from the nova perspective it becomes high priority to support v1 and v2 (back to esheffie1d bp) | 20:51 |
| gokrokve | They need to support nova locations and Glance v2. | 20:51 |
| zhiyan | gokrokve: actually there already has a rbd image handler, but yse arnaud__, i'm working on v2 stuff with esheffie1d (and next step is tempest cases for that corner) | 20:52 |
| gokrokve | arnaud__: Yes. It was a comment for their patch to align with Glance v2 support in nova. | 20:52 |
| zhiyan | gokrokve: may i know the review link for that patch? | 20:52 |
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| gokrokve | zhiyan: rbd handler was here but it work somehow indirectly. Our guys added dirrect copy from ceph or boot from ceph without copy. | 20:53 |
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| gokrokve | I will sent it ot glance channel. I don't have it right now. | 20:53 |
| gokrokve | I will send it to the glance channel. I don't have it right now. | 20:53 |
| zhiyan | gokrokve: tbh i don't think so sorry, that handler already could support *zero* copy | 20:54 |
| gokrokve | ok | 20:54 |
| zhiyan | gokrokve: thanks for the link | 20:54 |
| gokrokve | Probaly this is about something else. I don't know all the details. | 20:54 |
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| markwash | yes I think reviewing that patch would be the best move for us | 20:55 |
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| markwash | maybe we can try to hash it out there, or better understand the questions | 20:55 |
| markwash | okay, quick open discussion in case there are any more announcements / other business | 20:55 |
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| markwash | #topic open discussion | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:56 | |
| markwash | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/030444.html | 20:56 |
| markwash | . . just sayin' ;-) | 20:56 |
| arnaud__ | yeah :) | 20:56 |
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| markwash | another quick ML link | 20:57 |
| markwash | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/029402.html | 20:57 |
| markwash | I don't quite feel comfortable saying it on ML | 20:57 |
| markwash | but I think the idea about constructive conversations is a really good one, personally | 20:57 |
| markwash | I know I have failed many of you many times by not first seeking to fully understand an idea | 20:57 |
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| markwash | I think the thread there moved a bit in the direction of a whitewash | 20:58 |
| markwash | but I would encourage anyone who feels similarly to kgriffs to consider that and to bring up their concerns where they feel comfortable | 20:58 |
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| markwash | anyway, enough touchy-feely | 20:58 |
| markwash | :-) | 20:58 |
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| markwash | got to run! thanks everybody! | 20:59 |
| markwash | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 20 20:59:07 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2014/glance.2014-03-20-20.10.html | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2014/glance.2014-03-20-20.10.txt | 20:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2014/glance.2014-03-20-20.10.log.html | 20:59 |
| kgriffs | markwash: thanks, man. FWIW, I would not have started that thread if I hadn't talked to a LOT of community members who felt similarly. | 20:59 |
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| zehicle | RefStack meeting is on #openstack-meeting-3 | 21:03 |
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