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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit downtime for upgrade begins in 90 minutes. See: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GerritUpgrade | 14:31 | |
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| samstav | #startmeeting satori | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Apr 28 15:00:24 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is samstav. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: satori)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'satori' | 15:00 |
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| samstav | Who's here for the satori meeting? | 15:01 |
| caleb_ | o/ | 15:01 |
| zns | I | 15:01 |
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| jasonpgignac1 | o/ | 15:02 |
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| samstav | Howdy all | 15:02 |
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| samstav | #topic Action Items | 15:02 |
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| zns | I still have not done: "start ML discussion & blueprint for built-in python data plane discovery". I need to look back at the meeting minutes to remember what that was. Sorry, been otherwise occupied. | 15:03 |
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| samstav | k | 15:04 |
| caleb_ | I have an action to write some developer docs. I'm going to convert that to an issue since I keep punting it from week-to-week. | 15:04 |
| zns | #action zns start ML discussion & blueprint for built-in python data plane discovery | 15:04 |
| samstav | ok caleb_ | 15:05 |
| zns | I have a topic I want to bring up, samstav, when we get to it... | 15:05 |
| samstav | #action caleb_ Developer docs for doing discovery using Python rather than the command line | 15:05 |
| samstav | Sure thing. The list was short so we can get right to it | 15:06 |
| zns | The OpenStack summit is coming up fast. We're going to be there and we should talk about satori. But we don't have a very OpenStack-relevant story yet. Ideally, we should be able to use satori for a DevStack discovery. Two questions; do you all agree that a DevStack demo is important/essential? Second, if so, do we have the bandwidth to get it done. | 15:07 |
| samstav | I think we have the bandwidth if we prioritize it. We can already do some very interesting discovery on openstack resources, maybe something more closely aligned with what we've already accomplished? | 15:09 |
| caleb_ | Explain more about what a DevStack demo would do, zns | 15:09 |
| zns | Discover a devstack setup; list relevant services and whatever DevStack does today... | 15:09 |
| zns | Sorry, whatever "Satori does today". | 15:10 |
| caleb_ | ok, so its basically data plane discovery on a DevStack VM | 15:10 |
| caleb_ | localhost or via SSH? | 15:10 |
| zns | I guess so. | 15:10 |
| samstav | From the perspective of satori walking into a dark room, what do you expect that it will see if a host is running devstack? | 15:10 |
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| zns | I don't think there would be much difference between localhost or SSH; in terms of amount of work. We could demo either... | 15:12 |
| samstav | are you thinking about a devstack jinja template that is built to look through sys info for specific services & applications ? | 15:14 |
| caleb_ | samstav: database, api services, etc | 15:14 |
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| zns | samstav: there will be a bunch of listening services, rabbit mq, keystone, glance, etc... as well. | 15:15 |
| zns | I think the demo would be most valuable if it included opinions as well.. | 15:15 |
| zns | ... but we'd need to finish the schema changes, maybe the localhost work, and then a first take on opinions... | 15:17 |
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| caleb_ | I'm not certain that we have the time to pull that off | 15:18 |
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| jasonpgignac1 | That's a pretty big chunk of work, for sure. | 15:19 |
| samstav | Does it need to be an opinion? | 15:19 |
| zns | BTW, the schema changes I might be able to get done this week. | 15:19 |
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| caleb_ | Unless we do a hackday or two | 15:19 |
| samstav | What about the template idea I mentioned? | 15:19 |
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| zns | I agree. That's why I'm bringing this up. Another alternative would be for us to set aside some time to get that done during the summit and maybe aim for a demo later in the week. | 15:19 |
| zns | samstav: what would it be if it's not an opinion? | 15:20 |
| zns | samstav: template idea? | 15:20 |
| samstav | objective | 15:20 |
| samstav | "a devstack jinja template that is built to look through sys info for specific services & applications ?" | 15:21 |
| zns | Basically building opinions into the template? | 15:21 |
| zns | That could work... but code in Jinja templates is ugly (look at the current template and try to decipher what it does...) | 15:22 |
| samstav | That depends on… if they are actually opinions, or really just filtered sysinfo | 15:22 |
| caleb_ | zns, samstav: Let's plan on at least one full day hackday prior to the summit, say a week before. Then we can review our progress | 15:22 |
| caleb_ | and complete during summit if needed | 15:22 |
| zns | caleb_: I like the hack day idea. You're thinking before the summit? | 15:22 |
| caleb_ | rgr | 15:22 |
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| samstav | caleb_ that sounds good. I'd be hesitant to force quickly moving on the satori repository, but perhaps we could fork satori or open a new satori-atlanta repository that requires satori, performs discovery, and the code we write during the hackday will be devstack specific | 15:24 |
| zns | samstav: I share your concern about forcing code fast, but only if that means lowering the bar on quality. But if we hack together and produce tested, working code... then why not? | 15:25 |
| zns | How about Wednesday for the hack day? | 15:25 |
| samstav | ok | 15:26 |
| zns | So, what I'm hearing, is we'd like to get code done for a decent demo at the summit? I think that would go a long way towards having constructive conversations at the summit about where satori fits in the ecosystem... | 15:27 |
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| zns | otherwise we'd be taking about ideas and vaporware... suboptimal... | 15:27 |
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| samstav | luckily everyday is a hack day | 15:30 |
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| zns | Re-proposing hack day for Monday, 5th. | 15:30 |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit downtime for upgrade begins in 30 minutes. See: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GerritUpgrade | 15:31 | |
| caleb_ | I like Monday | 15:31 |
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| samstav | you like Monday? | 15:31 |
| samstav | then you'd hate this song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd3TpjWyVX0&feature=kp | 15:32 |
| zns | Monday - Cinqo de Mayo Hack Day... | 15:33 |
| samstav | excellent | 15:33 |
| jasonpgignac1 | We should bring Mexican hacksnacks | 15:33 |
| samstav | DONE | 15:33 |
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| zns | samstav: add a couple of decisions to the meeting? | 15:34 |
| samstav | # agreed Satori hackday on Monday, May 5th | 15:34 |
| samstav | #agreed Satori hackday on Monday, May 5th | 15:34 |
| samstav | #agreed create an openstack-relevant story by discovering devstack with satori | 15:35 |
| samstav | Any other topics to discuss before we close? | 15:36 |
| samstav | Alright. Thanks for joining. Until next time... | 15:38 |
| samstav | #endmeeting | 15:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:38 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Apr 28 15:38:18 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:38 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/satori/2014/satori.2014-04-28-15.00.html | 15:38 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/satori/2014/satori.2014-04-28-15.00.txt | 15:38 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/satori/2014/satori.2014-04-28-15.00.log.html | 15:38 |
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| zns | Thanks, samstav, for running the meeting. Thank you all. Later... | 15:38 |
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| sarob | #startmeeting training-manuals | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Apr 28 17:00:04 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: training-manuals)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'training_manuals' | 17:00 |
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| sarob | Roll call | 17:00 |
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| sarob | - | 17:01 |
| sarob | Roll call | 17:03 |
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| sarob | - | 17:04 |
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| sarob | Roll call | 17:06 |
| sarob | - | 17:08 |
| rl | I'm here. You invited me to attend a few days ago. | 17:09 |
| sarob | Great | 17:09 |
| sarob | Did you take look at the wiki | 17:10 |
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| rl | which part? | 17:10 |
| sarob | Training manuals wiki | 17:11 |
| rl | oh, training-manuals. duh | 17:11 |
| rl | :-) | 17:11 |
| rl | yes, i did | 17:11 |
| sarob | Trello | 17:11 |
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| rl | that, too. | 17:11 |
| sarob | Thoughts | 17:12 |
| rl | I am currently mostly interested in the training-labs scripts. | 17:12 |
| sarob | Excellent | 17:12 |
| rl | one thing I noticed is that IP addresses in the docs are all over the place. | 17:12 |
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| rl | If you want to reuse the docs, it might help if you had conventions for IP subnets for, say, data networks etc. | 17:13 |
| rl | also, I am curious what platform the scripts are supposed to use, going forward. | 17:14 |
| rl | ubuntu 12.04 with grizzly won't last forever. | 17:14 |
| sarob | Good points all | 17:14 |
| sarob | The best way to log your ideas on existing material | 17:15 |
| sarob | Is to log a bug | 17:15 |
| rl | Some docs have contain special characters: mostly nbsp, some soft-hypen. | 17:15 |
| sarob | On each major point | 17:15 |
| rl | Maybe we should have some scripts to check for those. | 17:15 |
| rl | Okay, can do. | 17:15 |
| sarob | Check on IP? | 17:15 |
| rl | IP? | 17:16 |
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| sarob | Once you have a bug and the URL | 17:16 |
| sarob | You can use that to get comments and summit a patch on the bug | 17:16 |
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| sarob | #moodle integration with infra over oauth2 outstanding | 17:17 |
| sarob | #info moodle integration with infra over oauth2 outstanding | 17:18 |
| sarob | Got any other questions | 17:18 |
| sarob | #info LPI and other new partners will be joining the team | 17:19 |
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| rl | So I file bug reports to do surveys? | 17:19 |
| sarob | Hmm survey? | 17:19 |
| rl | For instance, which distro to use. | 17:20 |
| sarob | Ah | 17:20 |
| rl | Whether IP subnets should be standardized. | 17:20 |
| dguitarbite | hello | 17:20 |
| sarob | On IP I'd say propose a IP standard | 17:20 |
| dguitarbite | sorry I drifted out | 17:20 |
| sarob | No problem | 17:21 |
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| annegentle | rl: sarob: one thing I think Matt Kassawara asked on the openstack-docs mailing list is if the training guides could follow install guide conventions | 17:21 |
| rl | Okay. | 17:21 |
| annegentle | rl: are you familiar enough to take a look at the install guide diagrams and see if that's a fit? | 17:21 |
| dguitarbite | rl: we could work on the scripts ... many changes to be made | 17:21 |
| sarob | Annegentle: I'll take a look | 17:21 |
| rl | dguitarbite: indeed | 17:22 |
| dguitarbite | annegentle: I think it would be perfect for training manuals installation section | 17:22 |
| rl | annashen: i can take a look, too | 17:22 |
| sarob | annegentle: I have been stretched a thin lately | 17:22 |
| dguitarbite | may be I could propose some additional changes for Vitual Box conventions there too. | 17:23 |
| dguitarbite | also the installation section under Training Manuals can be good replacement for Basic Install Guide | 17:23 |
| sarob | annegentle: I'm working on partners so we have better coverage | 17:23 |
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| sarob | dguitarbite yup, needs some tlc | 17:24 |
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| annegentle | sarob: rl: Oh, looking at http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2014-March/003999.html he was actually trying to see if trainees could just use the install guide rather than scripts. | 17:24 |
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| annegentle | scripts have their place but trainees should definitely use the install guides if they can | 17:25 |
| sarob | annegentle scripts are for the trainer not the trainee | 17:25 |
| dguitarbite | the scripts are for setting up the lab environment using VirtualBox | 17:25 |
| dguitarbite | so the trainer saves time | 17:25 |
| annegentle | dguitarbite: ah got it | 17:25 |
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| annegentle | at Rackspace we didn't find networking robust enough with VMs | 17:26 |
| rl | it could also be useful in other cases to have a standardized set up so readers can play along while reading manuals | 17:26 |
| dguitarbite | I think the Install Guide is a bit complex for Trainees to start using it. We are talking about people having no experience (freshers) who could be joining the training | 17:26 |
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| sarob | annegentle: I'd love to get active participation from Rackspace on training project | 17:27 |
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| annegentle | agreed: it's a balancing act | 17:27 |
| dguitarbite | annegentle: Networking works with VMs. DHCP works fine, some issues arise due to Virtualization Over head. | 17:27 |
| annegentle | sarob: their trainers tend to rely on the docs and prefer to improve those | 17:27 |
| annegentle | sarob: like the Security Guide and Ops Guide | 17:27 |
| rl | annegentle: vbox had more networking problems than others, in my experience, but it's cross-platform | 17:27 |
| sarob | I thought that's what we are doing too | 17:28 |
| annegentle | sarob: and install guide | 17:28 |
| sarob | Just structuring | 17:28 |
| sarob | As training | 17:28 |
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| dguitarbite | may be I have to refactor the virtualbox section, but I have the VMs running from Grizzly RC1. At Aptira we have used virtualbox extensively for commercial training. | 17:29 |
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| annegentle | sarob: agreed, but you're seeing where there are difficulties (VirtualBox refactoring) -- that's all I'm saying, we likely violently agree | 17:29 |
| sarob | Annegentle: what's the latest thoughts on training become a separate project? | 17:29 |
| sarob | Should I bring up at a TC meet? | 17:30 |
| sarob | Do you think we are ready? | 17:30 |
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| annegentle | sarob: I'd like to get you all into a separate repo and see how you do with reviews | 17:32 |
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| annegentle | sarob: that's what the TC will look for -- the team deliverables and make-up of team members | 17:32 |
| sarob | Okay | 17:32 |
| annegentle | sarob: so an interim would be a separate repo if that's amenable to you all | 17:32 |
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| dguitarbite | ok | 17:33 |
| sarob | Sound reasonable | 17:33 |
| annegentle | sarob: there may be other considerations but I think that's a good path | 17:33 |
| sarob | I'll chk with mark | 17:34 |
| annegentle | sarob: then we can look at http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/incubation-integration-requirements -- I still house a bit of a concern with duplication | 17:34 |
| sarob | Before pull trigger | 17:34 |
| annegentle | house? Not sure that's a term :) | 17:34 |
| sarob | ? | 17:34 |
| annegentle | sarob: and let's shop the idea further on the TC, since I'm just one pair of eyes | 17:35 |
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| sarob | Right | 17:35 |
| dguitarbite | annegentle: can we reuse material from other repos? Is that possible? | 17:35 |
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| sarob | If still use includes | 17:36 |
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| sarob | I'd | 17:36 |
| dguitarbite | ok, then I think we can continue reusing and contributing to the common folder under manuals to reduce repetition | 17:36 |
| annegentle | dguitarbite: yep we do that with links to the git mirror | 17:37 |
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| annegentle | dguitarbite: ayup | 17:38 |
| sarob | annegentle so we will discussion a new repo and TC incubation req | 17:39 |
| annegentle | sarob: I don't have a Summit session left, where/how would you like to shop the idea? | 17:39 |
| sarob | #action sarob will discuss a new repo and TC incubation req | 17:40 |
| sarob | Hmm | 17:40 |
| sarob | Let me talk to mark first | 17:40 |
| annegentle | sarob: sure | 17:41 |
| sarob | I want to sync his plans with ours | 17:41 |
| annegentle | yeah makes sense | 17:41 |
| sarob | #action sarob work out training project next steps with mark | 17:42 |
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| dguitarbite | annegentle: can you guide us to set up Conventions Document and how to get Manuals team to contribute to it? Should I just create a wiki and pass that link around or just add another page inside training manuals? | 17:42 |
| sarob | Soooo present team members | 17:42 |
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| annegentle | dguitarbite: thinking... what are examples of difference between Documentation/Conventions and TrainingManuals/Conventions? | 17:44 |
| annegentle | sorry sarob don't want to get off your agenda! | 17:45 |
| sarob | Np | 17:45 |
| dguitarbite | hmm... we need to Virtual Box section | 17:45 |
| annegentle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/Conventions | 17:45 |
| dguitarbite | *add | 17:45 |
| rl | dguitarbite: what should be in that section? | 17:46 |
| dguitarbite | and also for some conventions for shell scripts | 17:46 |
| annegentle | dguitarbite: I'd say just add to the specific "Guide Conventions" section with a Training Manuals section | 17:46 |
| dguitarbite | rl: mostly how to present the adapters and ip addresses | 17:46 |
| dguitarbite | annegentle: ok | 17:47 |
| annegentle | rl: for example, the Operations Guide follows O'Reilly style (the biggest difference being sentence cap for OpenStack and Title Cap for O'Reilly) | 17:47 |
| annegentle | dguitarbite: I think that's a good placement, adding to the Conventions wiki page | 17:47 |
| sarob | Sounds right to me | 17:48 |
| dguitarbite | okey, sounds good | 17:48 |
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| sarob | Anything else people? | 17:49 |
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| dguitarbite | we need to identify repeating content | 17:50 |
| sarob | I need to catch up on trello activity offline | 17:50 |
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| sarob | Dguitarbite duplicate? | 17:50 |
| dguitarbite | yeah duplicates | 17:51 |
| dguitarbite | loads of content can be reused | 17:51 |
| dguitarbite | I will also work on some good way to try and re-use install-guide as much as possible | 17:51 |
| sarob | True | 17:51 |
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| sarob | That's our goal | 17:52 |
| sarob | Tighter coordination with the install guide team | 17:52 |
| dguitarbite | yeah | 17:52 |
| sarob | Is what we need to execute on | 17:52 |
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| dguitarbite | #action dguitarbite work on reusing install guide (tigher coordination with install guide) | 17:53 |
| dguitarbite | #action dguitarbite and rl work on Shell Scripts (for IceHouse & Juno) | 17:53 |
| rl | ack | 17:53 |
| sarob | Good stuff | 17:54 |
| dguitarbite | rl: which is the best way to communicate with you? We might need to collaborate a bit more, may be some pair-programming | 17:54 |
| dguitarbite | sarob: yeah :) | 17:54 |
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| rl | dguitarbite: what would you prefer? | 17:55 |
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| dguitarbite | hangouts or skype? | 17:55 |
| rl | I have yet to try hangouts. let's do skype then for now. | 17:56 |
| rl | IRC works for me, too, of course. | 17:57 |
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| sarob | Thx dguitarbite. Teaming up to teach is what this effort is all about | 17:57 |
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| dguitarbite | sarob: welcome :), I guess I experienced the importance of high bus factor | 17:58 |
| sarob | ;) | 17:58 |
| dguitarbite | :D | 17:58 |
| sarob | Let's wrap this one up | 17:58 |
| dguitarbite | yep | 17:59 |
| sarob | Tweet me at @sarob or irc for more | 17:59 |
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| sarob | Before the next meet | 17:59 |
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| sarob | #endmeeting | 17:59 |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Apr 28 17:59:45 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_manuals/2014/training_manuals.2014-04-28-17.00.html | 17:59 |
| dguitarbite | sure thing | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_manuals/2014/training_manuals.2014-04-28-17.00.txt | 17:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_manuals/2014/training_manuals.2014-04-28-17.00.log.html | 17:59 |
| sarob | Cheers y'all | 17:59 |
| dguitarbite | bye, cheers | 18:00 |
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| rl | bye | 18:00 |
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| SnowDust | hello all | 18:01 |
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| dguitarbite | rl: hey | 18:02 |
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| dguitarbite | rl: my skype ID is same as my irc id, the issue with IRC is no chat history ... otherwise IRC works for me too | 18:03 |
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| redrobot | #startmeeting barbican | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Apr 28 20:00:36 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is redrobot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:00 |
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| redrobot | Hi everybody! Can I get a show of hands for the barbican weekly meeting? | 20:01 |
| jvrbanac | o/ | 20:01 |
| rellerreller | o/ | 20:01 |
| atiwari | o/ | 20:01 |
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| arunkant | o/ | 20:01 |
| peter-hamilton | o/ | 20:01 |
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| redrobot | awesome! looks like there's plenty of us here | 20:02 |
| redrobot | as usual the agenda wiki page can be found here: | 20:02 |
| redrobot | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican | 20:02 |
| redrobot | Looks like we don't have much on the agenda... | 20:02 |
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| * redrobot quickly scans last week's minutes | 20:02 | |
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| reaperhulk | o/ | 20:02 |
| lisaclark1 | o/ | 20:03 |
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| malini1 | Greetings~ | 20:03 |
| hgedikli | o/ | 20:03 |
| redrobot | hi malini1 good to see you again! | 20:03 |
| atiwari | redrobot, can we decide on summit agenda ? | 20:04 |
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| atiwari | do you guys have any thoughts ? | 20:04 |
| redrobot | atiwari, unfortunately jraim won't be in the meeting today, but I'd like to have his input on that | 20:04 |
| malini1 | :-) | 20:05 |
| atiwari | ok | 20:05 |
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| woodster_ | I recall jarret saying eventing/notifications and plugin-architecture would be two good topics | 20:05 |
| hgedikli | woodster_ i should have a blueprint by the summit | 20:06 |
| woodster_ | the former could accommodate auditing aspects as well as ssl cert generation related notifications for example | 20:06 |
| malini1 | my feeling is multiple porjects will mature and want event notification | 20:06 |
| malini1 | might it be a part of oslo and barbican a user | 20:06 |
| woodster_ | hgedikli: that sounds good | 20:06 |
| malini1 | anybody know of any event general purpose framework? | 20:06 |
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| atiwari | keystone have one | 20:07 |
| rellerreller | I think Nova was talking about adding events as well | 20:07 |
| redrobot | atiwari do you know if they use a library or did they write their own? | 20:07 |
| hgedikli | yeah i checked out nova orchestration but i don't think it's something we can use in barbican | 20:07 |
| redrobot | sounds like something that we might need Oslo's input on, then. | 20:07 |
| hgedikli | we need something that can notify clients and it needs to have authentication | 20:07 |
| atiwari | they have their own | 20:07 |
| woodster_ | I recall stacktach being used by some projects. I think ceilometer is providing some services in that area | 20:08 |
| atiwari | redrobot ^ | 20:08 |
| nkinder | for notifications? Keystone is using oslo.messaging | 20:08 |
| nkinder | not sure if you're looking for a framework that's a level above that or not | 20:08 |
| atiwari | oslo.messaging just for integration | 20:08 |
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| atiwari | nkinder, notification can be done without oslo.messaging | 20:09 |
| hgedikli | isn't oslo messaging just an encapsulation around amqp ? | 20:09 |
| atiwari | but anyways a generic solution will be awesome | 20:09 |
| arunkant | oslo.messaging has both rpc and notifcation support and provides support for various brokers, rabbitmq, zeromq, qpid etc.. | 20:09 |
| nkinder | there are many reasons a generic solution is ideal | 20:09 |
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| hgedikli | yeah i was thinking users creating subscriptions to notifications (via types - whether it's a webhook, email or dropping a message to clients queue) | 20:10 |
| nkinder | for example, trying to tie message security into oslo would then allow you to comsume that functionality | 20:10 |
| nkinder | e-mail is a different story of course if you're talking about notification to end users (as opposed to other services) | 20:10 |
| woodster_ | so it seems that this area might be good to cover in atlanta :) | 20:10 |
| hgedikli | well, we'll still need to attach a cert to the email so that client knows it's coming from barbican | 20:11 |
| atiwari | yes good topic | 20:11 |
| peter-hamilton | would subscriptions be used for something like two-factor auth down the road? | 20:11 |
| hgedikli | same thing with webhook call, we need to sign the request | 20:11 |
| atiwari | hgedikli please add one topick http://summit.openstack.org/ | 20:11 |
| hgedikli | so who'll be in the atlanta summit and where/how do we meet? | 20:11 |
| hgedikli | atiwari: ll do | 20:12 |
| atiwari | arunkant has good experience with keystone event notification. he can also help you on it | 20:12 |
| malini1 | I'll be at the Atlanta summit and plan to attend Barbican, some nova, and neutron design sessions | 20:13 |
| woodster_ | the team here at rackspace is going out to atlanta | 20:13 |
| arunkant | for auditing, a custom notification needs to be added to generate CADF events. | 20:13 |
| atiwari | I will be there | 20:13 |
| nkinder | Is there a meeting agenda you're following, or is this open discussion? I have something I wanted to discuss around security auditing whenever it's appropriate. | 20:13 |
| rellerreller | A couple of us from APL will be there | 20:13 |
| redrobot | hgedikli now that we're incubated we'll have dedicated space and design sessions in the official schedule | 20:14 |
| malini1 | Also would like to share https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-key-manager-chapter, seeking input from the attendees here to guide writing of barbican chapter for security guide | 20:14 |
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| redrobot | nkinder, nobody updated the agenda today, so it's somewhat open. We can talk about that next. | 20:14 |
| nkinder | redrobot: ok, great | 20:14 |
| redrobot | nkinder https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican is where the weekly agenda lives. Feel free to add topics before the meetings. | 20:15 |
| Swami | Hi folks is the Barbican also looking into storing the tenant certificates for all services | 20:16 |
| rellerreller | I also have agenda item. We are looking to add a new interface into Barbican. | 20:16 |
| redrobot | #agreed Event Notifications would make a great topic for the Atlanta Summit | 20:16 |
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| redrobot | rellerreller, k, added to today's topic queue :) | 20:16 |
| atiwari | is "Barbican Secret isolation at user level" a final one? | 20:16 |
| atiwari | #link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/113 | 20:17 |
| rellerreller | redrobot: thanks | 20:17 |
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| atiwari | redrobot ^ | 20:17 |
| redrobot | atiwari I think jraim has the final say on what the official topics are. But if even if there's no official time slot for it, we can find time to talk about it | 20:17 |
| woodster_ | I believe barbican will have a table where general discussion can occur, outside of the two design slots | 20:18 |
| redrobot | ok, let's move on from eventing, since it seems we'll be having a lively discussion about it in Atlanta | 20:18 |
| redrobot | #topic Security Auditing | 20:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Security Auditing (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:18 | |
| atiwari | ok, but this will have big impact and deserve a session :) | 20:18 |
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| redrobot | nkinder what were you thinking about? | 20:19 |
| nkinder | redrobot: lisaclark1 send an e-mail to the dev list mentioning the security audit effort I've been driving with the integrated projects | 20:19 |
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| nkinder | redrobot: I started a page for Barbican last week (link coming) | 20:19 |
| nkinder | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Juno/Barbican | 20:20 |
| lisaclark1 | nkinder: yes, i haven't made any other traction on our end in regards to the audit effort | 20:20 |
| redrobot | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Juno/Barbican | 20:20 |
| nkinder | The idea is that each project should maintain a page that covers used/implemented crypto, sensitive data handing, and other basic security info | 20:20 |
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| lisaclark1 | if you dream it, it will come | 20:21 |
| nkinder | I'm trying to get it to the point where all projects have this | 20:21 |
| nkinder | lisaclark1: :) | 20:21 |
| redrobot | I see, thanks for getting that started nkinder | 20:21 |
| nkinder | Sure. I'm not familiar with the barbican code in detail, so there's a lot that is still needed | 20:21 |
| woodster_ | the crypto stuff that is in oslo.common/incubator is interesting…every project has a snapshot in time for that I suppose | 20:21 |
| redrobot | yeah... our crypto gurus are not fans of oslo crypto | 20:22 |
| reaperhulk | Post-Atlanta this page might look very different, but we need to get cryptography added to global reqs first, hehe | 20:23 |
| nkinder | lisaclark1 made a good point in her e-mail that it would be nice to look over all of the other projects seucrity pages (once created) to see how barbican can help | 20:23 |
| woodster_ | nkinder: the crypographic processing is mostly isolated to the crypto package: https://github.com/stackforge/barbican/tree/master/barbican/crypto | 20:23 |
| nkinder | making a case for centralized crypto will be easier with those details collected... | 20:23 |
| reaperhulk | It's a fine start, although the nature of tooling like PyKCS11 (which actually just loads a dso for communication to a third party tool) makes it hard to say exactl what is doing the encryption. | 20:23 |
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| nkinder | looking at "sensitive data" handling for other projects might also show some obvious things that should be stored in barbican | 20:24 |
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| Swami | nkinder: Yes neutron requires to store sensitive data for VPN service | 20:25 |
| malini1 | at one time we were discussing moving certificates stored in nova to barbican | 20:25 |
| peter-hamilton | malini1: how are certs handled now? | 20:26 |
| nkinder | anyway, I just wanted to raise awareness of the page that I started so it can continue to be fleshed out and kept up to date | 20:26 |
| malini1 | it is a table in nova database. | 20:26 |
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| malini1 | also the keys introduced to ssh into VM instances | 20:27 |
| redrobot | nkinder cool, yeah, it's definitely good to stay on top of stuff like this | 20:27 |
| lisaclark1 | nkinder: thanks for getting it setup! we'll take a look on our end and see if we can start fleshing out the pieces that aren't in flux for juno | 20:27 |
| redrobot | Ok, let's move on to rellerreller's agenda item | 20:27 |
| nkinder | sure thing! Thanks for showing interest in it! | 20:28 |
| redrobot | #topic rellerreller New Interface to Barbican | 20:28 |
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| rellerreller | OK, I wanted to bring up a proposal we have for integrating KMIP into Barbican. | 20:28 |
| atiwari | +1 rellerreller | 20:28 |
| rellerreller | We submitted a few blueprints this week, and one of them in particular is probably of interest to a lot of us. | 20:28 |
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| rellerreller | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/barbican/+spec/support-kmip, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/barbican/+spec/create-secret-store, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/barbican/+spec/kmip-secret-store | 20:29 |
| rellerreller | The second one, create-secret-store, is for our proposal to add a new abstraction for storing secrets. Currently everything is tied to the DB. | 20:29 |
| atiwari | rellerreller I think the biggest problem was opensource KMIP client lib (as per jraim) | 20:30 |
| rellerreller | We are creating an open source project for that | 20:30 |
| atiwari | hmm | 20:30 |
| rellerreller | We are working both items and hope to have both completed by the end of Juno. | 20:31 |
| redrobot | rellerreller secret storage is not really tied to the DB right now. | 20:31 |
| redrobot | rellerreller Yes, Barbican does store data in the DB, but it's really up to the plugin implementation whether the data is the actual secret. | 20:31 |
| redrobot | rellerreller The DogTag plugin is an example of using a different storage than the Barbican provided db | 20:31 |
| brich | rellerreller: will someone be using this opensource KMIP lib with one of the OASIS KMIP interops? | 20:32 |
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| rellerreller | So the plugins looked like they provide support for encrypt, decrypt. What other plugin is there | 20:32 |
| woodster_ | rellerreller: looking at this bp: https://github.com/cloudkeep/barbican/wiki/Blueprint:-Create-Secret-Store … barbican has a pkcs11 based HSM plugin available | 20:32 |
| rellerreller | I don't know about the OASIS KMIP interops | 20:33 |
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| woodster_ | barbican is storing encrypted data that the plugins provide (such as HSM) | 20:33 |
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| peter-hamilton | I'm working with rellerreller on this | 20:33 |
| peter-hamilton | a KMIP server handles storage of its own secrets and secret attributes | 20:34 |
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| woodster_ | barbican realy doesn't care what data is stored from the plugin, as long as it uniquely identifies (relative to that plugin impl) the information to decrypt | 20:34 |
| brich | rellerreller: Since the I in KMIP is for Interoperability, the interops are a way of keeping implementations from drifting off standard, usually happen twice a year | 20:34 |
| rellerreller | So the plugin library has support encrypt and decrypt but I don't see anything about storage of the keys | 20:34 |
| redrobot | rellerreller in Barbican, keys are referred to as keks | 20:35 |
| redrobot | rellerreller kek_meta for example, allows a plugin to define a system for managing the keys | 20:35 |
| rellerreller | Right, so I read the code as generate a key, wrap it with a kek, and store in DB. | 20:35 |
| redrobot | in the most generic way, yes | 20:36 |
| peter-hamilton | if I follow the plugin architecture, Barbican would outsource encrypt/decrypt of secrets to a KMIP server and store the encrypted data in the database | 20:36 |
| redrobot | but we're very loose on what "encryption" in the plugin sense means. | 20:36 |
| rellerreller | See I don't want my keys to be generated and stored on the HSM. I don't want to wrap them and store them in the DB. | 20:36 |
| rellerreller | I do want my keys... | 20:36 |
| peter-hamilton | KMIP support would store the secrets externally | 20:37 |
| reaperhulk | rellerreller: the current plugin infra supports that exact behavior if desired. You can store only a pointer to the key inside the HSM of your choice. | 20:37 |
| redrobot | the plugin's response doesn't need to be the cryptographic encryption of the data. the only requirement is that the plugin be able to produce the original data when given the stored "encrypted" blob | 20:37 |
| peter-hamilton | Barbican would provide auth support to something like Keystone and then fetch the secret from a KMIP server | 20:37 |
| reaperhulk | That said, there is plenty to talk about around KMIP and clearly there's significant confusion about the capabiities of the current plugin infra so this sounds like something we should budget time for in person | 20:37 |
| reaperhulk | I personally want a plugin capable of speaking KMIP because PKCS11 is annoying and out of date (although it is now under active maintenance again) | 20:38 |
| rellerreller | Ya, I guess I'm confused about the plugin architecture then | 20:38 |
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| peter-hamilton | hmm, i am as well | 20:38 |
| rellerreller | Is there a summit talk on this? | 20:38 |
| rellerreller | Or in the discussion for one? | 20:38 |
| reaperhulk | Not an official talk but it definitely sounds like we need to put something together and just schedule a time to go over it in our space | 20:39 |
| reaperhulk | I forget how to work the IRC bot redrobot, can you minute that? | 20:39 |
| woodster_ | rellerreller: yeah the client's data encryption key and the internal key encryption key are a bit confusing…but I think by 'key' in your blueprint you mean the former. It might be helpful for you to detail the sequence of steps you envisioned between barbican and the hsm | 20:40 |
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| woodster_ | ….here that is: https://github.com/cloudkeep/barbican/wiki/Blueprint:-Create-Secret-Store#description | 20:40 |
| redrobot | #action We need to make time during the Summit to talk about Barbican's Plugin Infrastructure | 20:40 |
| woodster_ | I believe that is the other design summit jarret wanted to have | 20:40 |
| rellerreller | We have some details of the sequence of events in our bps. We are working to add more detail on those, but I think we have a good start. | 20:41 |
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| rellerreller | So, that's all I have. I wanted to bring this up. It sounds like I need to sync up in the IRC with some of you. | 20:43 |
| redrobot | I think we also need to beef up our plugin documentation. I especially want to document the stuff that the DogTag team has been doing. | 20:43 |
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| woodster_ | yeah, this is dated now: https://github.com/cloudkeep/barbican/wiki/Blueprint:-Plug-in-Encryption | 20:43 |
| malini1 | redrobot :-) these leads to our need to write up our book chapter sooner than later and capture all of this! Sorry for falling off the planet the last 2 weeks -- travels | 20:44 |
| atiwari | redrobot, reaperhulk can we make some progress on #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82189/ that will aslo change the crypto contract | 20:44 |
| woodster_ | malini1: We've been trying to move tech docs here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Barbican Are you thnking along those lines though? | 20:45 |
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| reaperhulk | yep I've been looking through that today. Oh and it looks like gerrit unconfused itself so the diffs are accurate now | 20:45 |
| redrobot | woodster_ I think the OpenStack guidelines require us to have very technical stuff in sphynx in our repo | 20:45 |
| woodster_ | atiwari: agreed on teh crypto changes. I think there might be further changes needed once we meet in atlanta. | 20:46 |
| atiwari | woodster_ then what are the plan for #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82189/? | 20:46 |
| malini1 | woodster_ -- thinking along the lines of #link http://docs.openstack.org/security-guide/content/ch024_authentication.html | 20:46 |
| atiwari | wd it be in before summit? | 20:46 |
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| malini1 | got started on #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-key-manager-chapter | 20:47 |
| malini1 | updating it from snippets of today's meeting | 20:47 |
| malini1 | atiwari -- not before summit | 20:47 |
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| atiwari | malini1 did you look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82189/? | 20:48 |
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| woodster_ | atiwari: I think it helps us fine tune the design for sure, but it might be good to keep as a work in progress until the summit I think. Others may disagree though | 20:48 |
| malini1 | woodster : lot of your docs would be pulled into the book chapter, nice stuff there!! | 20:48 |
| woodster_ | malini1: think the challenge now that barbican is incubated is finding the right home for various docs and material | 20:49 |
| malini1 | atiwari -- will look today | 20:49 |
| atiwari | woodster_ in my opinion we should move on with this change before summit | 20:50 |
| malini1 | woodster -- agree to your comment | 20:50 |
| atiwari | reaperhulk what do you say? | 20:50 |
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| reaperhulk | I'm not going to block this change on the summit, but I can't say whether or not I think it's merge ready yet since I haven't finished review. | 20:50 |
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| atiwari | reaperhulk correct | 20:51 |
| atiwari | it is ready for your review though :) | 20:51 |
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| woodster_ | atiwari: we should all definitely keep reviewing in earnest. But it puts code at teh heart of barbican so it take a bit more time :) | 20:52 |
| atiwari | woodster_ I know | 20:53 |
| redrobot | Alrighty guys, we're running out of time for the meeting today. | 20:53 |
| atiwari | I would appreciate if we can trun it before summit | 20:53 |
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| redrobot | Remember to add Agenda items to the wiki page when you get a chance. | 20:55 |
| redrobot | See you guys next week! | 20:55 |
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| redrobot | #endmeeting | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "(Meeting topic: training-manuals)" | 20:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Apr 28 20:56:12 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2014/barbican.2014-04-28-20.00.html | 20:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2014/barbican.2014-04-28-20.00.txt | 20:56 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2014/barbican.2014-04-28-20.00.log.html | 20:56 |
| malini1 | rellerreller -- please update that etherpad with waht you want to see | 20:56 |
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