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| davidlenwell | #startmeeting refstack | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Oct 27 19:00:32 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is davidlenwell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'refstack' | 19:00 |
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| hogepodge | Good afternoon. | 19:00 |
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| davidlenwell | good day | 19:01 |
| davidlenwell | roll call | 19:01 |
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| pvaneck | o/ | 19:01 |
| hogepodge | o/ | 19:01 |
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| catherine_d | o/ | 19:03 |
| davidlenwell | we'll let a few more folks filter in before starting | 19:03 |
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| davidlenwell | whois hogepodge? just curious | 19:04 |
| hogepodge | davidlenwell, Chris Hoge, I was just hired by the OpenStack Foundation as their Interop Engineer, which in part means DefCore/RefStack | 19:04 |
| davidlenwell | hard to remember everyones nick | 19:04 |
| davidlenwell | oh thats right we met t openstack silicon valley | 19:04 |
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| sslypushenko__ | o/ | 19:05 |
| davidlenwell | good .. very glad to see you here.. welcome! | 19:05 |
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| hogepodge | Thank you! It's exciting to be here. | 19:05 |
| davidlenwell | okay .. lets just get started | 19:06 |
| davidlenwell | #topic api | 19:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "api (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:07 | |
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| davidlenwell | I am going to submit for review this afternoon the patch everyones been waiting for.. | 19:07 |
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| catherine_d | davidlenwell: great | 19:07 |
| davidlenwell | I've ended up refining the web service to not include all of the reporting features. | 19:07 |
| davidlenwell | the event reporting I should say | 19:07 |
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| davidlenwell | without tests being triggered from the central database/api there isn't really a point in keeping track of the status of test runs | 19:08 |
| davidlenwell | so look for that and review it .. | 19:08 |
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| davidlenwell | lets keep the review cycles fast.. I'd like to have this code hosted at api.refstack.org by thursday | 19:09 |
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| catherine_d | davidlenwell: will we have an web site up? | 19:09 |
| davidlenwell | yes | 19:09 |
| rockyg | O/ | 19:09 |
| davidlenwell | refstack.org will be up and api.refstack.org will host the api | 19:09 |
| catherine_d | davidlenwell: +1 .. | 19:10 |
| davidlenwell | so hogepodge and catherine_d and sslypushenko__ I will tag you all as reviewers on the api code.. | 19:10 |
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| davidlenwell | next topic.. | 19:11 |
| catherine_d | sslypushenko__: have been working on the DefCore results page .. once the site is up we should host those page .. | 19:11 |
| davidlenwell | #topic next weeks meeting | 19:11 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "next weeks meeting (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:11 | |
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| davidlenwell | we obviously will not be having a meeting next week .. most of us will be in paris. | 19:11 |
| zehicle_ | o/ lurking | 19:11 |
| davidlenwell | I plan on getting as much facetime with all of you as possible. | 19:11 |
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| davidlenwell | I also plan on crashing several of the q/a track design sessions in order to push our agenda for uuid's on tests | 19:12 |
| sslypushenko__ | DefCore results page can be used as a template for flask. So it will easy to intergrate it in refstack.org | 19:13 |
| davidlenwell | catherine_d: you and I should coordinate on that | 19:13 |
| davidlenwell | thank you sslypushenko__ | 19:13 |
| catherine_d | davidlenwell: do we have a time slot for UUID discussion | 19:13 |
| davidlenwell | mtreinish (the tempest ptl) has told me he'll tollorate that being a topic for part of the track.. im not sure on the timing of it.. I'll try to coordinate with him accordingly | 19:13 |
| mtreinish | davidlenwell: well it's a bit too late for the qa track now, it's pretty much locked down | 19:14 |
| mtreinish | but we can discuss it during the friday contributor meetup | 19:14 |
| davidlenwell | mtreinish: I might corner you in the dev lounch between tracks then .. | 19:15 |
| davidlenwell | friday might be to late for the conversation to evolve into a solution before the end of the week | 19:15 |
| catherine_d | mtreinish: this is a very important topic for refstack ... because of the complexity of the topic , we should discuss early in the week | 19:16 |
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| davidlenwell | mtreinish: I'll ping you offline and we can work this out | 19:17 |
| mtreinish | davidlenwell: sure, although the advantage of friday is that it's all day | 19:17 |
| mtreinish | davidlenwell: ok sure | 19:17 |
| davidlenwell | thank you mtreinish | 19:17 |
| davidlenwell | lets move along | 19:17 |
| davidlenwell | any pending reviews im missing? | 19:18 |
| davidlenwell | #topic pending reviews | 19:18 |
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| catherine_d | need a flow chart for the wiki page | 19:18 |
| rockyg | +1 | 19:19 |
| davidlenwell | okay .. I've just writtent hat on my pre-travel list on my whiteboard | 19:19 |
| catherine_d | davidlenwell: thx | 19:19 |
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| davidlenwell | it will be part of the website content that I am working on anyways | 19:20 |
| catherine_d | refstack-client review is all update to date ... Paul is working on https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/188 | 19:20 |
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| catherine_d | sslypushenko__: are you working on https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/309? | 19:20 |
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| sslypushenko__ | I'm planing to do it tomorrow. I have been working on report page all week | 19:21 |
| catherine_d | sslypushenko__: +1 thx | 19:22 |
| rockyg | Which is looking good. | 19:22 |
| sslypushenko__ | thx | 19:22 |
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| catherine_d | For refstrack , davidlenwell: zehicle_: please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129320/ rockyg: and I have reviewed | 19:23 |
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| sslypushenko__ | I think it is very close to final version | 19:23 |
| davidlenwell | I don't want that merged just yet .. I just wanted in gerrit | 19:23 |
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| catherine_d | if refstack.org is up ... this is one set of content that refstack.org can render .... | 19:24 |
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| davidlenwell | its not going to render anything yet | 19:25 |
| catherine_d | i mean the report from sslypushenko__: on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129320/ ... looks good to me .. | 19:25 |
| davidlenwell | thats a k1 goal | 19:25 |
| davidlenwell | right now we're focused on data collection | 19:26 |
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| davidlenwell | showing report cards might make it seem like we are expressing an opinion about how to run openstack | 19:26 |
| zehicle | davidlenwell, we need to be able to show people how they are doing vs. the capabilities list | 19:26 |
| zehicle | that's a Foundation request | 19:26 |
| davidlenwell | that said we do want this .. and we do want to show rendered test results .. its just not a pre-paris requirment | 19:27 |
| zehicle | we don't have to make them public - self review first | 19:27 |
| zehicle | we do need to show them that we got all the data | 19:27 |
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| catherine_d | davidlenwell: in any how we need some kind of demo so people can give feedback ... | 19:27 |
| davidlenwell | sure | 19:27 |
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| davidlenwell | and like I said .. we sitll want this .. but as far as I understood from every previous converasation rendering of results wasn't a preparis feature | 19:28 |
| rockyg | Maybe run tests against trystack as demo of the report? | 19:28 |
| davidlenwell | rockyg: I think thats a tangent | 19:29 |
| davidlenwell | lets stay on topic | 19:29 |
| zehicle | rockyg, you need admin access to run the tests | 19:29 |
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| rockyg | Just want a filled report available to show in Paris | 19:29 |
| davidlenwell | yes .. rockyg and zehicle thats true | 19:29 |
| zehicle | davidlenwell, do we care if they run against Havana? | 19:29 |
| davidlenwell | no we don't | 19:29 |
| catherine_d | I can provide some sample data | 19:29 |
| zehicle | I'd expect that uploading any test results would be OK | 19:29 |
| davidlenwell | everyone is still running havana | 19:29 |
| davidlenwell | and those are the dependancies we have finalized anyways | 19:29 |
| zehicle | ouch, ok | 19:30 |
| zehicle | I guess I should put that Juno demo back on the shelf | 19:30 |
| davidlenwell | perheps | 19:30 |
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| davidlenwell | again the tester doesn't care what version your running | 19:30 |
| davidlenwell | branchless tempest should test juno just as well as it tests havana | 19:31 |
| zehicle | it seems like the #1 thing to demo is that someone can upload tempest results | 19:31 |
| catherine_d | zehicle: we need Icehouse before Juno? | 19:31 |
| davidlenwell | or icehouse | 19:31 |
| davidlenwell | and we're only collecting the results | 19:31 |
| davidlenwell | so I don't care what version of the cloud you run the test results against | 19:31 |
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| hogepodge | A juno demo may not be a bad idea. Havana is not officially supported upstream any more. | 19:32 |
| davidlenwell | that said .. sslypushenko__ do you have the bandwidth this week to connect that template to some real data.. catherine_d can provide you with sample data to write the code with. | 19:32 |
| sslypushenko__ | sure | 19:33 |
| davidlenwell | hogepodge: I'll leave that up to someone on defcore | 19:33 |
| sslypushenko__ | Just ping me in email | 19:33 |
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| zehicle | at this point it's about proving the API not the version of OpenStack | 19:33 |
| davidlenwell | catherine_d: can you email him some real results | 19:34 |
| catherine_d | davidlenwell: sure | 19:34 |
| davidlenwell | zehicle: +1000000 | 19:34 |
| davidlenwell | catherine_d: thanks | 19:34 |
| zehicle | i'd like to see if people can get their own tests working as part of this | 19:34 |
| sslypushenko__ | I can incorporate it in a minute | 19:34 |
| davidlenwell | well I have bluebox trying to start using the refstack client right now | 19:34 |
| davidlenwell | the hold up right now is that they were not generating configs durring deployment for tempest | 19:35 |
| davidlenwell | and won't be for a little while | 19:35 |
| davidlenwell | so our test engineer is having to step through getting a working config | 19:35 |
| davidlenwell | So .. prerequisit when we are pushing that folks run the client is that we make it clear that they have to write the tempest config themselves | 19:36 |
| sslypushenko__ | No pain, no gain) | 19:36 |
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| davidlenwell | indeed | 19:36 |
| catherine_d | to clarify ... I do not have havana data ... I only have IceHouse data ... | 19:36 |
| davidlenwell | thats fine | 19:37 |
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| davidlenwell | render it with icehouse data | 19:37 |
| catherine_d | sslypushenko__: 's code renders the results with havanacore | 19:37 |
| sslypushenko__ | Yep | 19:38 |
| catherine_d | and we do note have icehousecore.json yet | 19:38 |
| catherine_d | so we will render Icehouse data with havanacore.json? | 19:38 |
| sslypushenko__ | unfortunately( | 19:38 |
| rockyg | Yes but the tests will work for . Backward compatibility demo:-) | 19:38 |
| davidlenwell | sslypushenko__: can you make a version of the template that doesn't compare it to the json and doesn't assign a score? | 19:38 |
| rockyg | For ice house | 19:39 |
| davidlenwell | I just want a raw output view | 19:39 |
| davidlenwell | that doesn't have an opinion | 19:39 |
| catherine_d | rockyg: tests are compatible but criteria is not ... | 19:39 |
| sslypushenko__ | Comparing to capabilities - it is a main feature | 19:39 |
| davidlenwell | again the criteria in question is based on defcore and not any other sense of reality | 19:39 |
| sslypushenko__ | But raw output avaible to | 19:40 |
| davidlenwell | start with raw output | 19:40 |
| rockyg | ++ David | 19:40 |
| davidlenwell | in a readable fashion | 19:40 |
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| catherine_d | davidlenwell: take a look at http://sergslipushenko.github.io/output_demo.html ... that would be the plain list in thos page | 19:40 |
| rockyg | Sorry. Doing this on phone. Auto correct sucks for IRC | 19:40 |
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| rockyg | Havana vote should be mostly s subset of ice house | 19:41 |
| davidlenwell | we have to keep in mind that refstack and defcore are very different things | 19:42 |
| sslypushenko__ | no exactly | 19:42 |
| catherine_d | zehicle: this just mena that we need an icehousecore.json fast ? | 19:42 |
| juliashapovalova | no exactly.. but mostly | 19:43 |
| davidlenwell | refstack is to test for interopability .. our results output should show the capabilies but not use the word "core" at all | 19:43 |
| juliashapovalova | so we need approved havana first | 19:43 |
| davidlenwell | I'm fine with defcore also having pages to render with scores | 19:43 |
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| davidlenwell | but we cannot have one before the other | 19:43 |
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| catherine_d | davidlenwell: http://sergslipushenko.github.io/output_demo.html can also show all if the "Show only core tests" check box is not checked | 19:44 |
| davidlenwell | thats the problem I am having with the language on the page | 19:44 |
| davidlenwell | I'll review the page and put down my opinions | 19:45 |
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| catherine_d | davidlenwell: +1 | 19:45 |
| davidlenwell | it will be easier to understand and cleaer | 19:45 |
| davidlenwell | moving on .. anything else ? | 19:45 |
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| catherine_d | juliashapovalova: what else do you need for the wiki page? | 19:45 |
| juliashapovalova | for now it has outdated diagrans | 19:46 |
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| juliashapovalova | and 3 brocken lincks | 19:46 |
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| juliashapovalova | couple for Rob's docs and refstack.org | 19:46 |
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| juliashapovalova | that's it | 19:46 |
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| davidlenwell | creating those diagrams is on my list for this week | 19:47 |
| juliashapovalova | David promissed to take care on the flow chart | 19:47 |
| davidlenwell | I'll share links to them in #refstack | 19:47 |
| juliashapovalova | thanks! | 19:47 |
| catherine_d | rockyg: will you be able to review the broken links? | 19:47 |
| davidlenwell | after I get the api out tonight I'll be free to focus on message and all that | 19:47 |
| davidlenwell | I'm actually really excited about designing and building a website and all the assets | 19:48 |
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| catherine_d | juliashapovalova: I will upload the new_havanacore.json ... you can review and update with the comments you send in the note earlier today so we have the log in review | 19:49 |
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| juliashapovalova | great | 19:49 |
| rockyg | Removed some broken links. | 19:49 |
| juliashapovalova | one more thing regarding the capabilities: I did one commit for icehouse capabilities (it contains only new projects - to start reviews) please review it | 19:49 |
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| catherine_d | juliashapovalova: I will | 19:50 |
| juliashapovalova | thank you | 19:50 |
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| rockyg | We need to move all reference docs into Openstack and out of Google | 19:51 |
| catherine_d | final review of the core file will be from zehicle: | 19:51 |
| zehicle | yy | 19:51 |
| rockyg | ++ | 19:51 |
| catherine_d | zehicle: will ping when we are already for your review | 19:51 |
| juliashapovalova | +1 | 19:51 |
| zehicle | let me know when ready | 19:51 |
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| catherine_d | zehicle: juliashapovalova: and I will do that ... | 19:53 |
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| davidlenwell | great | 19:53 |
| davidlenwell | okay .. we're running out of time. | 19:54 |
| davidlenwell | any final thoughts? | 19:54 |
| juliashapovalova | I have an idea for demo - if David is concerning regardine the "core" list - we can use just full capabilities | 19:54 |
| davidlenwell | juliashapovalova: +1 | 19:54 |
| juliashapovalova | it could be generated automaticaly for half an hour | 19:54 |
| sslypushenko__ | +1 | 19:55 |
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| davidlenwell | okay .. lets end this .. | 19:56 |
| davidlenwell | ping me in #refstack if anything is needed | 19:56 |
| davidlenwell | #endmeeting | 19:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Oct 27 19:56:16 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2014/refstack.2014-10-27-19.00.html | 19:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2014/refstack.2014-10-27-19.00.txt | 19:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2014/refstack.2014-10-27-19.00.log.html | 19:56 |
| sslypushenko__ | I will provide a possibility to choose capabilities suit | 19:56 |
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| redrobot | #startmeeting barbican | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Oct 27 20:00:26 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is redrobot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:00 |
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| redrobot | Hi everyone! As usual, the Barbican Weekly Meeting Agenda can be found here: | 20:00 |
| redrobot | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican#Agenda | 20:01 |
| redrobot | #topic Roll Call | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:01 | |
| hyakuhei | o/ | 20:01 |
| atiwari | o/ | 20:01 |
| alee | o/ | 20:01 |
| kaitlin-farr | o/ | 20:01 |
| woodster_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| chellygel | \o\ /o/ |o| | 20:01 |
| akoneru | o/ | 20:02 |
| hogepodge | \o | 20:02 |
| redrobot | Woohoo! Lots of barbicaneers here. Good stuff. | 20:02 |
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| redrobot | #topic Kilo Design Sessions | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kilo Design Sessions (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:02 | |
| redrobot | I'm in the process of filling in the info for the Barbican Design Sessions | 20:02 |
| redrobot | we have four slots, all on Tuesday. | 20:03 |
| redrobot | should be a busy day | 20:03 |
| redrobot | So far the topics are: | 20:03 |
| redrobot | 1) Barbican Plugin (Driver) Lifetime management | 20:03 |
| redrobot | 2) Common Certificate Issuance API | 20:03 |
| redrobot | 3) Integrating Barbican with other OpenStack projects | 20:03 |
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| hyakuhei | 3 really has to move faster if you don't mind me saying | 20:04 |
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| hyakuhei | (I will be helping with that though, looking forward to discussing next week) | 20:05 |
| redrobot | I'm tentatively holding the 4th slot for a Kite design session. I've reached out to the Kite developers to see if they are interested in having a design session for Kite. If not, we'll be using that slot for another Barbican discussion. | 20:05 |
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| redrobot | hyakuhei what do you mean move faster? | 20:05 |
| hyakuhei | I know Tkelsey is very interested | 20:05 |
| hyakuhei | So talking to a few Cinder devs about this the other day | 20:05 |
| hyakuhei | Main objection seens to be a perception that Barbican API isn't stable | 20:06 |
| rellerreller | We have bug with Barbican plugin in Cinder | 20:06 |
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| redrobot | hyakuhei I think there's some validity to that... we did change a lot of things in Juno. I think we're committed to supporting the Juno API though, so hopefully this won't be an issue anymore. | 20:06 |
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| rellerreller | Sorry for being late. I only saw last three comments., but the latest python-barbicanclient has broken code for Barbican KeyManager | 20:07 |
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| rellerreller | I think this is second time now that this has been an issue for us | 20:07 |
| redrobot | rellerreller yep, there's a lot of work that's going into python-barbicanclient that breaks things, which is why it's all targeted to a new major version release | 20:07 |
| hyakuhei | redrobot: That sounds good, my main goal is to see decent encryption capabilities, using keymat from Barbican, integrated into OpenStack | 20:07 |
| redrobot | #link https://launchpad.net/python-barbicanclient/+milestone/3.0.0 | 20:08 |
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| hyakuhei | Useful link thanks | 20:09 |
| alee | redrobot, if we have the fourth slot for Barbican, I'd like to vote for "User-level access to resources, such as secrets/containers / per-secret-policy" https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127353/ | 20:09 |
| atiwari | alee +1 | 20:10 |
| redrobot | rellerreller the only other pending change is to Orders. Currently the client can't use the typed orders. I should have a CR for that today or tomorrow. | 20:10 |
| redrobot | alee noted. | 20:10 |
| rellerreller | redrobot thanks | 20:10 |
| redrobot | rellerreller once the Orders CR is merged, I'll release 3.0.0 to PyPI | 20:11 |
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| atiwari | redrobot, are removing the old style order from client | 20:11 |
| atiwari | ? | 20:11 |
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| redrobot | atiwari yes. No point in keeping it since the Server no longer supports it. | 20:11 |
| atiwari | yes | 20:11 |
| redrobot | Any more questions/comments regarding the Kilo Design Sessions? | 20:12 |
| atiwari | yes | 20:12 |
| atiwari | redrobot, can we organize our round table meetings too? | 20:12 |
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| redrobot | atiwari yes, we'll have a dedicated pod for Barbican, just like we did in Atlanta. | 20:13 |
| atiwari | redrobot, ok | 20:13 |
| redrobot | atiwari the goal will be to work through as much of the etherpad as possible | 20:13 |
| redrobot | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-kilo-design-sessions | 20:13 |
| woodster_ | general note: I've been adding additional items out there, along with a date stamp | 20:13 |
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| redrobot | atiwari anything else? | 20:15 |
| atiwari | no | 20:15 |
| redrobot | ok, moving on | 20:15 |
| redrobot | #topic Atalla ESKM Plugin | 20:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Atalla ESKM Plugin (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:15 | |
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| redrobot | I was hoping tkelsey would be around | 20:16 |
| hyakuhei | I'll see if he's online | 20:16 |
| hyakuhei | He isn't... This is an 8pm meeting in the uk. | 20:16 |
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| redrobot | hyakuhei no worries, I think we'll be talking about this in Paris either way. | 20:17 |
| hyakuhei | Yeah I think so, it's a shame we can't move it along a little faster though | 20:17 |
| hyakuhei | That goes for all/any HSM compatability | 20:17 |
| redrobot | I added this to the agenda, since we were talking about it last week, and I've been thinking about whether it would be a good idea to add this plugin to Barbican when we know that it will be deprecated as soon as the KMIP plugin is up to speed. | 20:17 |
| hyakuhei | Although having secure keymat with nothing to consume it is perhaps slightly redundant | 20:18 |
| hyakuhei | We will be happy to support it in parallel with the replacement | 20:18 |
| redrobot | I see. The impression I had was that we would want to remove the current plugin as soon as the replacement was available | 20:19 |
| hyakuhei | Sorry for giving that impression | 20:20 |
| hyakuhei | From an accademic point of view KMIP is the better option | 20:20 |
| woodster_ | Why would we need both plugins active if KMIP is the better one? | 20:20 |
| woodster_ | active -> available? | 20:20 |
| hyakuhei | So there are a few issues here | 20:20 |
| hyakuhei | The first is that one is available now (almost) and KMIP will actually be a while | 20:21 |
| hyakuhei | The KMIP secret store doesn't scale brilliantly as proposed today (stores everything in HSM) | 20:21 |
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| woodster_ | By everything do you mean the keks themselves? If so, Paul (reaperhulk) moved to a MEK based approach with wrapped keks stored outside of the HSM, in Barbican | 20:22 |
| woodster_ | Is the timeframe for KMIP beyond Kilo do you think? | 20:23 |
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| hyakuhei | woodster_: for it to be stable, probably | 20:25 |
| hyakuhei | Also, that's quite a long time | 20:25 |
| atiwari | hyakuhei, as per this #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/114580/4/specs/juno/hp-eskm-plugin.rst we storing everything in ESKM not just KEK. | 20:25 |
| hyakuhei | Sorry I appeared afk for a second, network outage. | 20:25 |
| atiwari | hyakuhei, is that correct? | 20:25 |
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| redrobot | hyakuhei no worries. You missed a couple of Qs | 20:27 |
| redrobot | <woodster_>Is the timeframe for KMIP beyond Kilo do you think? | 20:27 |
| redrobot | <atiwari>hyakuhei, as per this #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/114580/4/specs/juno/hp-eskm-plugin.rst we storing everything in ESKM not just KEK. | 20:27 |
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| hyakuhei | ok. so I'm not one of the primary contributors to the KMIP work. I'd like it to be ready before the end of the Kilo timeframe. | 20:28 |
| woodster_ | My only other comment was that if only project KEKs are stored in the HSM, reaperhulk address that via a MEK based approach that stores the MEK-wrapped project KEKs outside the HSM, in Barbican | 20:28 |
| hyakuhei | woodster_: Where can I read more about Pauls approach to things? | 20:28 |
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| atiwari | hyakuhei, #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/107775/4/specs/juno/restructure-pkcs11-plugin.rst | 20:29 |
| hyakuhei | I think as of last week the basic model was CRUD for KEK all within HSM, DEKs stored by Barbican, wrapped by KEK as a HSM operation | 20:29 |
| redrobot | hyakuhei http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/barbican-specs/specs/juno/restructure-pkcs11-plugin.html | 20:29 |
| woodster_ | well, we are working on a presentation for it in Paris :) But the basic doe is here: #link https://github.com/openstack/barbican/blob/master/barbican/plugin/crypto/p11_crypto.py | 20:29 |
| atiwari | this is pkcs11 plugin in using MEK from HSM | 20:30 |
| woodster_ | yep, so the only thing stored in the HSM is a single MEK and a HMAK key | 20:30 |
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| hyakuhei | So my personal feeling is that you should have more scalable HSM resource, MKEK seems like a degredation | 20:30 |
| hyakuhei | As in the event of a point-in-time compromise of Barbican you now have resident unwrapped KEK and DEK | 20:31 |
| atiwari | hyakuhei, I think we need to clean #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/114580/4/specs/juno/hp-eskm-plugin.rst | 20:31 |
| woodster_ | hyakuhei, perhaps, but if you wish to store 100k's of KEKs in the HSM, you run into issues with hardware availablity | 20:31 |
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| atiwari | as per this, it seems we are storing everything in ESKM . | 20:31 |
| hyakuhei | Depends on your hardware | 20:31 |
| hyakuhei | I mean, the HSM's we use store 2M keys | 20:32 |
| atiwari | sorry If I am missing something | 20:32 |
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| hyakuhei | Maybe you should choose an appropriate HSM for load in the same way that you choose an appropriate chasis for compute | 20:32 |
| woodster_ | hyakuhei, my only point in bringing this up was if you KMIP issue was one of limited resources in the HSM. | 20:32 |
| hyakuhei | At the very least both modes of operation should be supported | 20:32 |
| hyakuhei | Sure I get that, I don't think that's the problem | 20:33 |
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| hyakuhei | In fact one thing I wanted to add to barbican at some point soon was the ability to indicate where a key was stored (ie which HSM) if that wasn't already there | 20:33 |
| woodster_ | hyakuhei, ok thanks for the clarification | 20:33 |
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| rellerreller | hyakuhei I like that idea | 20:34 |
| atiwari | hyakuhei, woodster_, fyi I was proposing MEK approach with ESKM | 20:34 |
| hyakuhei | To my mind that's how you scale without compromising key handling | 20:34 |
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| hyakuhei | I'm open to several approaches though, it's not a one size fits all kinda thing | 20:34 |
| atiwari | something in same line as Paul's work | 20:34 |
| redrobot | hyakuhei I'm still not sure what you mean by scaling | 20:34 |
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| alee | hyakuhei, rellerreller don't we already have a mechanism to indicate which hsm stored a key by using the secret metadata? | 20:35 |
| hyakuhei | where num KEK > HSM capacity | 20:35 |
| hyakuhei | alee: I'm not sure, it's on my list of things to check | 20:35 |
| rellerreller | alee I thought he was talking about exposing that to the external API, so you could call store key and store it using this particular secret store. | 20:35 |
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| redrobot | hyakuhei so, upon reaching capacity in one HSM you'd have to add another HSM to provide additional storage? | 20:36 |
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| rellerreller | alee The DB does store which secret store saved the key afaik | 20:36 |
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| hyakuhei | redrobot: That would be the same way that everything else works - everything has limited capacity. | 20:36 |
| rellerreller | alee that is how we know which secret store to call to retrieve the key | 20:37 |
| alee | rellerreller, right -- otherwise you would not know where to go to retrieve it | 20:37 |
| hyakuhei | It's a risk managed decision if you want to offset the cost of adding more HSM against going down a MKEK route | 20:37 |
| hyakuhei | However, I feel this is probably a discussion for next week | 20:37 |
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| alee | rellerreller, but if there is some kind of load/capacity decisions that need to be made, I'll not sure that should be exposed above the secret_store level .. | 20:38 |
| hyakuhei | Fun as it is conversing at three sentences a minute it can be hard to keep track. | 20:38 |
| redrobot | hyakuhei I see. Not sure how much cost would factor into such a scenario. We've found that the HSMs we're using have a very small capacity. To add HSMs to add capacity would be prohibitively expensive. | 20:38 |
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| alee | rellerreller, how and why would the client have to know about which hsm to go to? | 20:38 |
| redrobot | hyakuhei I agree :) | 20:38 |
| hyakuhei | redrobot: Like I said, the ones we use today manage 2k keys | 20:38 |
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| hyakuhei | sorry, 2m keys :P | 20:39 |
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| hyakuhei | but they _are_ expensive. | 20:39 |
| hyakuhei | real crypto security often is, I seem to remember us basically having the inverse argument lastweek | 20:39 |
| rellerreller | alee It could be interesting for user to say store a key, and I want it to be stored using this provider. Perhaps I have a requirement to store things in KMIP and not other types of secret stores. | 20:39 |
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| atiwari | alee, I think if that are multiple HSM, you have to maintain the reference in secret . | 20:39 |
| rellerreller | alee Perhaps not identify individaul secret store but secret store type | 20:40 |
| hyakuhei | Yeah | 20:40 |
| alee | hyakuhei, rellerreller ok - that makes sense -- I've proposed something similar for cert issuance. | 20:41 |
| rellerreller | alee Yes, it is the same concept as that. | 20:41 |
| alee | ok | 20:42 |
| woodster_ | hmmm....warning, API changes ahead :) Well, additions anyway | 20:42 |
| redrobot | yeah, will definitely be a fun week next week :) | 20:42 |
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| redrobot | so I guess we can table this until Paris. | 20:42 |
| hyakuhei | I'm worried that we'll end up with a one size fits all here if we're not careful. If Paul's suggestion is the one I think it is, where secrets are stored in Barbican but most of the operations happen in the HSM then I think you'll still run into scale issues | 20:42 |
| hyakuhei | Anyway, yes, table it | 20:42 |
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| redrobot | ok, moving on. | 20:43 |
| redrobot | #topic Barbican T-Shirts | 20:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Barbican T-Shirts (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:43 | |
| hyakuhei | Finally something important ;) | 20:43 |
| redrobot | so on a lighter topic, we _finally_ printed the shirts we promised during the mid-cycle | 20:43 |
| atiwari | +1 | 20:43 |
| alee | hyakuhei, thats roughly how dogtag solves this problem -- and its scaled just fine for millions of secrets | 20:43 |
| hyakuhei | alee my concern is that people buy the cheapest smallest HSM and watch it struggle with all the operations required. It's not the number of secrets its the number of crypto operations per second | 20:44 |
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| redrobot | so, if I promised you a T-Shirt at the mid-cycle, please let me know your size | 20:44 |
| hyakuhei | anyway, t-shirts | 20:44 |
| hyakuhei | redrobot: are they amazing? | 20:45 |
| redrobot | hyakuhei yes, HSM throughput is definitely a concern for us | 20:45 |
| alee | redrobot, do I get a t-shirt? I was there remotely .. | 20:45 |
| redrobot | hyakuhei and yes, they're amazing :) | 20:45 |
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| redrobot | alee indeed :) | 20:45 |
| atiwari | redrobot, can I? | 20:45 |
| hyakuhei | I wasn't around for the tshirt discussion - I think I'll make my own, the design is OpenSource I assume :P | 20:45 |
| rellerreller | I don't remember anything about t-shirts. What a pleasant surprise. | 20:46 |
| alee | redrobot, at least there was a massive projector sized image of me in the room. larger than life in fact. | 20:46 |
| redrobot | hyakuhei yep... hopefully vague enough to not get sued by the foundation. | 20:46 |
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| hyakuhei | redrobot: Man, I remember the hastle we had trying to get a logo for the OSSG. | 20:46 |
| hyakuhei | Perhaps better to beg forgiveness than permission... someone might say. | 20:47 |
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| redrobot | atiwari yep, we should have a few extras... we'll be bringing them to Paris. | 20:47 |
| atiwari | redrobot, thanks | 20:47 |
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| redrobot | Ok, that's all I have on the agenda for today. | 20:48 |
| redrobot | Looking forward to seeing everyone in Paris. | 20:48 |
| alee | redrobot, hey. do we have barbican stickers? | 20:48 |
| hyakuhei | Me too! | 20:48 |
| redrobot | alee no stickers yet. maybe next time we get swag in the budget. | 20:49 |
| woodster_ | barbican HSM keychains for all! | 20:49 |
| alee | ah well :) | 20:49 |
| woodster_ | we'll ask for a bigger budget next summit | 20:49 |
| hyakuhei | woodster_: some of these? https://www.yubico.com/products/yubihsm/ | 20:50 |
| woodster_ | yeah, those would be nice! We'll trade you t-shirts for those :) | 20:50 |
| redrobot | hyakuhei yes! With barbican logos. | 20:50 |
| hyakuhei | That would be awesome | 20:51 |
| redrobot | See y'all next week! | 20:52 |
| redrobot | #endmeeting | 20:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:52 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Oct 27 20:52:14 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2014/barbican.2014-10-27-20.00.html | 20:52 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2014/barbican.2014-10-27-20.00.txt | 20:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2014/barbican.2014-10-27-20.00.log.html | 20:52 |
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