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| dhellmann | #startmeeting oslo | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 24 16:00:01 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 16:00 |
| dhellmann | who's around for the oslo meeting this week? | 16:00 |
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| * kragniz lurks | 16:00 | |
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| dstanek | o/ | 16:00 |
| bnemec | o/ | 16:00 |
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| dims | o/ | 16:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 16:00 |
| shardy | o/ | 16:00 |
| * bnemec is triple booked this morning though :-/ | 16:00 | |
| viktors|wfh | hi | 16:00 |
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| dims | busy man :) | 16:00 |
| i159 | o/ | 16:01 |
| bnemec | Seriously, who schedules stuff for Monday morning? :-) | 16:01 |
| * dhellmann looks around sheepishly | 16:01 | |
| rpodolyaka1 | o/ | 16:01 |
| viktors|wfh | it's better than friday night :) | 16:01 |
| dhellmann | viktors|wfh: true | 16:01 |
| zzzeek | o/ | 16:01 |
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| dhellmann | ok, good turn out, let's get started | 16:01 |
| dhellmann | #topic Review action items from previous meeting | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review action items from previous meeting (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:01 | |
| dhellmann | We had a lot of items from last week. | 16:01 |
| dhellmann | #info dhellmann talk to sileht about bug 856764 | 16:02 |
| GheRivero | o/ | 16:02 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 856764 in oslo.messaging "RabbitMQ connections lack heartbeat or TCP keepalives" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856764 | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | we've discussed this, but I don't think we have a resolution, yet | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | #info sileht post summary of the rabbit heartbeat issue to the mailing list so we can pick a solution - DONE | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-November/050782.html | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | I don't think we really resolved the question though, did we silhet? | 16:02 |
| dhellmann | (same topic) | 16:02 |
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| ozamiatin | o/ | 16:02 |
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| dhellmann | oops, I meant sileht there | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | typo | 16:03 |
| bnemec | We have someone from tripleo looking at this issue, has he contacted either of you ? | 16:03 |
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| bnemec | jprovazn is his nick | 16:03 |
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| sileht | o/ | 16:03 |
| i159 | dhellmann: The patch for Rabbit is in progress | 16:03 |
| dhellmann | I don't recognize the nick | 16:03 |
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| jd__ | o/ | 16:04 |
| dhellmann | i159: well, I thought we were still discussing whether the approach was what we wanted? maybe I'm just not caught up? | 16:04 |
| kgiusti | o/ | 16:04 |
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| dhellmann | sileht: did we decide which heartbeat approach to take, or are we still evaluating options? | 16:05 |
| bnemec | I'll maybe send an email to connect everyone up. I know he's been testing the various proposed fixes. | 16:05 |
| sileht | dhellmann, the option 3 is too big refactoring for me | 16:05 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: sounds good | 16:05 |
| sileht | dhellmann, so land the i159 patch | 16:05 |
| sileht | first | 16:05 |
| dhellmann | sileht: was option 3 my suggestion to use a thread inside the connector? | 16:05 |
| i159 | dhellmann: I have pushed a lot of fixes appropriate to a comments in it and sileht pushed something too. | 16:05 |
| dhellmann | or was that option 4? | 16:05 |
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| jungleboyj | o/ | 16:06 |
| sileht | dhellmann, connector ? you means transport ? | 16:06 |
| dhellmann | i159: is that https://review.openstack.org/126330 ? | 16:06 |
| dhellmann | sileht: yes, sorry | 16:06 |
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| sileht | dhellmann, this one is a too bug refactoring | 16:07 |
| sileht | bug/big | 16:07 |
| dhellmann | ok | 16:07 |
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| i159 | dhellmann: I thought that we are ok with driver and other options is just an options | 16:07 |
| dhellmann | ok, so we'll proceed with i159's patch and refine it if we need to later | 16:08 |
| dhellmann | #info we'll proceed with i159's patch and refine it if we need to later | 16:08 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/126330 | 16:08 |
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| dhellmann | #info rpodolyaka2 talk to #openstack-infra about setting up a bot to announce new oslo bugs | 16:09 |
| dhellmann | rpodolyaka1: did you have a chance to talk to them? | 16:09 |
| rpodolyaka1 | dhellmann: I want to update my script first before talking to them to make it more general | 16:09 |
| rpodolyaka1 | dhellmann: but I can run it right now on my machine | 16:09 |
| i159 | hellmann: good, I'll be in it immediately after I push KS patch which I owe for a long time. | 16:09 |
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| rpodolyaka1 | dhellmann: I tried that today and we have 116 untriaged bugs in oslo projects | 16:10 |
| bnemec | Ouch | 16:10 |
| dhellmann | rpodolyaka1: yes, that's not a surprise | 16:10 |
| dhellmann | we'll talk more about triaging later in the agenda :-) | 16:10 |
| rpodolyaka1 | dhellmann: I can add it to cron right away and then move it to infra when it's ready | 16:10 |
| rpodolyaka1 | as right now the projects list is hard coded :( | 16:10 |
| dhellmann | rpodolyaka1: ok, I'll leave that up to you and the infra team to work out | 16:11 |
| rpodolyaka1 | ok | 16:11 |
| bnemec | We should write something that scrapes the governance repo for the list of official projects. | 16:11 |
| bnemec | I know that came up for reviewstats too. | 16:11 |
| dhellmann | we can afford to wait, I think | 16:11 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: there's a script like that in oslo-incubator already | 16:11 |
| bnemec | Oh. Good. :-) | 16:11 |
| dhellmann | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/oslo-incubator/tree/tools/list_oslo_projects.py | 16:11 |
| rpodolyaka1 | ok, so you don't mind the bot posting about 100 entries every 6 hours? :) | 16:11 |
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| dhellmann | rpodolyaka1: no, no, no, it should only post things it has not posted before! :-) | 16:12 |
| rpodolyaka1 | as long as we don't triage those ;) | 16:12 |
| * dhellmann wants to keep #openstack-oslo useful | 16:12 | |
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| rpodolyaka1 | ok, let's take to #openstack-oslo after meeting then | 16:12 |
| dhellmann | rpodolyaka1: keep in mind that we'll be shifting to storyboard next cycle (I think that's the schecule) | 16:12 |
| dhellmann | schedule | 16:12 |
| dhellmann | rpodolyaka1: ok | 16:13 |
| dhellmann | #info dims to prepare oslo.utils release | 16:13 |
| dhellmann | We have a bunch of other releases to do this week, so maybe dims was waiting? | 16:13 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-November/051271.html | 16:13 |
| dims | dhellmann: was waiting to see if we heard back on that email thread you started | 16:13 |
| dhellmann | that's what I figured | 16:13 |
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| dhellmann | more on releases later in the meeting, too | 16:13 |
| dims | k | 16:14 |
| dhellmann | #info bnemec talk to dhellmann about updating review dashboard links | 16:14 |
| dhellmann | We talked, but I'm not sure the dashboards were updated? | 16:14 |
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| bnemec | I pushed a patch, let me grab the link. | 16:14 |
| bnemec | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135032/ | 16:14 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: ok, cool, will you update the wiki page, too? | 16:14 |
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| bnemec | dhellmann: Sure | 16:14 |
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| dhellmann | bnemec: great, thanks | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | And we have a bunch of others that are done, stand by for paste-bomb: | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | #info viktors talk to dhellmann about fixing up oslo.db launchpad - DONE | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | #info harlowja_at_home talk to dhellmann about updating taskflow's bug tracker and milestones - DONE | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | #info dhellmann clean up oslo-incubator kilo-next page - DONE | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | #info flaper87 start a mailing list thread on a job/bot to email bugs for triage to volunteers - DONE | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-November/050767.html | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | #info dhellmann fix meeting time link - DONE | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | I think that's everything from last week | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | #topic Red flags for/from liaisons | 16:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red flags for/from liaisons (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:15 | |
| bknudson | none for keystone... haven't been looking at oslo stuff much lately. | 16:15 |
| GheRivero | none for ironic | 16:16 |
| dhellmann | reminder for our new liaisons, this is the section of the meeting where we ask for critical issues you're seeing. Please say "none for $project" if you have nothing, as bknudson just did, so we know who is reporting in. | 16:16 |
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| shardy | None for heat, other than bug #1394530 blocking merge of the remaining patches for python-heaclient | 16:16 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1394530 in neutron "Icehouse client test failing when deleting external network" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1394530 | 16:16 |
| bnemec | One minor thing that bit tripleo last week: https://bugs.launchpad.net/tripleo/+bug/1394963 | 16:17 |
| shardy | maybe I just need to do more rechecks ;) | 16:17 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1394963 in tripleo "RequiredOptError: value required for option: lock_path" [Critical,Fix committed] | 16:17 |
| bknudson | shardy: I've tried recheck, doesn't help | 16:17 |
| jungleboyj | None for Cinder. We made progress moving to the new libraries last week. Just working on wrapping that up. | 16:17 |
| bnemec | Cinder had a very old copy of lockutils and when they switched to oslo.concurrency it broke us because we weren't setting lock_path. | 16:17 |
| shardy | bknudson: Yeah, it seems fairly persistent :( | 16:17 |
| dhellmann | shardy: do you think that bug is related to oslo? or is it just a general issue? | 16:18 |
| bknudson | shardy: I think that was already reported, or reported independently... | 16:18 |
| bknudson | shardy: https://bugs.launchpad.net/tempest/+bug/1395368 | 16:18 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1395368 in tempest "ExternalNetworksTestJSON.test_delete_external_networks_with_floating_ip (icehouse) failures" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 16:18 |
| jungleboyj | bnemec: Sorry about that. Thanks for helping get it fixed. | 16:18 |
| shardy | dhellmann: AFAICT it's a neutron or tempest bug so probably not oslo related | 16:18 |
| dhellmann | shardy: ok, thanks | 16:18 |
| shardy | bknudson: ah, thanks | 16:18 |
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| dhellmann | speaking of test failures, we turned on stable requirements checks for oslo libs last week. Have we seen any issues landing patches as a result? | 16:19 |
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| bknudson | shardy: also, elastic-recheck for the newer bug: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136657/ | 16:19 |
| bknudson | dhellmann: does it have an icehouse-neutron job? | 16:20 |
| shardy | bknudson: thanks, I'll mark my bug as a dupe | 16:20 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: no, this is just to ensure that we don't add requirements to libs in use in the stable branches without updating the stable requirements list first | 16:20 |
| bknudson | I wonder if clients & keystonemiddleware get the same test? | 16:21 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-November/051206.html | 16:21 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: yes, some of the oslo libs had holes there and we were causing issues when we cut new releases | 16:21 |
| dhellmann | #action dhellmann make sure instructions for creating a new library are up to date with stable requirements jobs | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | let's keep going | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | #topic Invite liaisons to the cross-project meeting | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-November/051153.html | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#OpenStack_Project_.26_Release_Status_meeting | 16:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Invite liaisons to the cross-project meeting (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:22 | |
| bknudson | it's on my calendar | 16:22 |
| dhellmann | Thierry sent mail to the list last week inviting all of the cross-project liaisons to attend the project management meetings on Tuesday | 16:23 |
| dhellmann | This requirements job thing is the sort of topic that might come up there | 16:23 |
| dhellmann | and we also talk about things like deadlines, summit planning, etc. | 16:23 |
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| dhellmann | I encourage all of the Oslo liaisons to consider attending -- it's voluntary, but it can be useful to stay informed about what is going on, so lurking is good even if you don't contribute directly | 16:23 |
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| dhellmann | As Thierry said on the list, we are also looking for people interested in helping in other meta-ways with the project, and as you've expressed at least some interest in cross-project concerns you're all on our short list. :-) | 16:24 |
| dhellmann | does anyone have questions about the meetings? | 16:24 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: excellent, thanks! | 16:25 |
| dims | dhellmann: sounds good | 16:25 |
| jungleboyj | dhellmann: I will add it to my calendar. | 16:25 |
| dhellmann | jungleboyj: good, thanks! | 16:26 |
| dhellmann | #topic Reviews for config option discovery functions in incubator | 16:26 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113940/ | 16:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reviews for config option discovery functions in incubator (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:26 | |
| dhellmann | #info it looks like that merged since I put it on the agenda | 16:26 |
| dhellmann | #topic Identify release manager for each library | 16:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Identify release manager for each library (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:26 | |
| dhellmann | so, releases | 16:26 |
| dhellmann | we have a long long list of patches landed and not released that I would like to clear out | 16:26 |
| dhellmann | as we did last cycle, I'd like to evaluate each library every week to see if it needs a release | 16:27 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-November/051277.html | 16:27 |
| dhellmann | that's the list of changes we have pending | 16:27 |
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| dhellmann | rather than me spend all day today or tomorrow cutting releases, I would like to start having the lead (or some other designated person) manage releases for each library | 16:28 |
| dhellmann | we have a nice tool from ttx for making that simple, and I have instructions in the wiki: | 16:28 |
| dhellmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo/ReleaseProcess | 16:28 |
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| dhellmann | shall we talk about the releases we have pending, and get volunteers to handle them? | 16:29 |
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| dhellmann | #action dhellmann to release cliff | 16:29 |
| dhellmann | next up is oslo.concurrency | 16:30 |
| bnemec | I can take that one. | 16:30 |
| dims | i can do oslo.utils | 16:30 |
| dhellmann | #action bnemec to release oslo.concurrency | 16:30 |
| dhellmann | #action dims to release oslo.utils | 16:30 |
| dhellmann | next up is oslo.config | 16:30 |
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| dhellmann | I'll take that one if no one else wants it | 16:31 |
| dhellmann | #action dhellmann to release oslo.config | 16:31 |
| sileht | I can try todo oslo.messaging (first I do a release,so :p) | 16:31 |
| dhellmann | #action sileht to release oslo.messaging | 16:31 |
| dhellmann | sileht: we can set up a time where I can walk you through it, if you like | 16:31 |
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| sileht | dhellmann, yep | 16:32 |
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| dhellmann | rpodolyaka1, viktors|wfh : you've done oslo.db releases, right? it looks like we're ready for another | 16:32 |
| viktors|wfh | ok, we will do the next one | 16:32 |
| dhellmann | sileht: ok, after this meeting we can pick a time for tomorrow morning | 16:32 |
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| dhellmann | #action viktors to release oslo.db | 16:32 |
| dhellmann | next up is oslo.i18n | 16:32 |
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| * dhellmann waits for a volunteer | 16:33 | |
| dims | i can do that dhellmann | 16:33 |
| dhellmann | thanks, dims | 16:33 |
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| dhellmann | #action dims to release oslo.1i8n | 16:33 |
| dhellmann | oslo.middleware is next | 16:34 |
| dhellmann | I don't see gordc online | 16:34 |
| bnemec | dhellmann: Please let me know when you talk to sileht. I haven't done releases before either. | 16:34 |
| dhellmann | jd__, can you take that one? | 16:35 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: sure | 16:35 |
| dhellmann | #action jd__ to release oslo.middleware | 16:35 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: we can do a quick run-through right after the meeting, if people have time to stick around for 5-10 minutes | 16:35 |
| bnemec | dhellmann: Sounds good. | 16:36 |
| dhellmann | #action dhellmann to release oslo.rootwrap (or talk to ttx about doing it) | 16:36 |
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| dhellmann | next up: oslo.serialization | 16:36 |
| bnemec | I guess that was mine too. | 16:37 |
| dhellmann | #action bnemec to release oslo.serialization | 16:37 |
| ttx | dhellmann: there isn't much in it, but yes, we can do a release | 16:37 |
| dhellmann | I hope we don't have so many after this week, so it shouldn't be such a big deal | 16:37 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yeah, I'm trying to clear out our backlog | 16:37 |
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| dhellmann | dims already said he would handle oslo.utils | 16:38 |
| dhellmann | next is oslo.vmware | 16:38 |
| * dims as well | 16:38 | |
| dhellmann | #action dims to release oslo.vmware | 16:38 |
| dhellmann | next oslosphinx | 16:39 |
| dhellmann | I can do that one, I guess | 16:39 |
| dhellmann | #action dhellmann to release oslosphinx | 16:39 |
| dhellmann | and oslotest, too, I suppose | 16:39 |
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| dhellmann | #action dhellmann to release oslotest | 16:39 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_away: taskflow is next, can you do a release today or tomorrow? | 16:39 |
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| dhellmann | #action talk to harlowja_away about releasing taskflow | 16:40 |
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| dhellmann | ok, great, that's all that I had on the list this time around | 16:41 |
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| dhellmann | #topic Spec reviews | 16:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec reviews (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:41 | |
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| dhellmann | I haven't had a chance to look through the list for anything I think we've reached consensus on. Does anyone want to propose merging any specs? | 16:42 |
| sileht | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/131666/ | 16:42 |
| sileht | it's about oslo.messaging: notification-listener-pools | 16:42 |
| dhellmann | sileht: that one looks good to me, but is there anyone else we need to make sure has looked at it? | 16:42 |
| dhellmann | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/124847/ also has one +2 but could use some more votes | 16:43 |
| dhellmann | ok, we'll look again next week | 16:44 |
| dhellmann | #topic Stable maintenance liaison | 16:44 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-November/050390.html | 16:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stable maintenance liaison (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:44 | |
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| dhellmann | last week we asked for a volunteer to be the liaison between the oslo team and the stable maintenance team | 16:45 |
| dhellmann | we still need someone :-) | 16:45 |
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| dhellmann | we also need someone for the documentation liaison, but I think I can manage that myself | 16:46 |
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| dhellmann | I'd like someone else to take on the stable branch work | 16:46 |
| dhellmann | #action dhellmann sign up as documentation liaison | 16:46 |
| dhellmann | does anyone have questions about the responsibilities? | 16:47 |
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| dhellmann | well, let's try again next week | 16:48 |
| dhellmann | #topic Need help with bug triage work - one person for each lib? | 16:48 |
| dhellmann | The bot and teams flaper87 is working on setting up are a long-term plan for this, but we need a short-term plan, too. | 16:48 |
| dhellmann | Suggestions? | 16:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Need help with bug triage work - one person for each lib? (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:48 | |
| dhellmann | as rpodolyaka1 pointed out, we have >100 untriaged tickets now | 16:48 |
| dhellmann | I'm certain some of the triaged tickets are obsolete, as well | 16:48 |
| dhellmann | so we should really review everything that's open | 16:48 |
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| dhellmann | I asked on the mailing list about having a review sprint day, but I wonder if we'd be better off spending that time on bug cleanup? | 16:49 |
| dhellmann | it's less fun, but will still be useful :-) | 16:49 |
| bnemec | Maybe some of each? | 16:49 |
| dhellmann | bnemec, dims : I didn't see whether either of you were going to be able to make it on the proposed day | 16:49 |
| dhellmann | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-November/051281.html | 16:50 |
| dhellmann | #info proposed sprint day 4 December | 16:50 |
| bnemec | dhellmann: I should be able to, but things here are kind of nuts right now (see triple-booked this morning). | 16:50 |
| dims | dhellmann: yep, i'll be there | 16:50 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: good idea | 16:50 |
| dhellmann | dims: cool, thanks | 16:50 |
| dhellmann | bnemec: understood; I hope you can join in | 16:50 |
| dhellmann | how about our liaisons, and library cores? | 16:51 |
| rpodolyaka1 | will try to join to help with other oslo projects | 16:51 |
| dhellmann | I know flaper87 had a conflict with that proposed day | 16:51 |
| shardy | I should be around to help out | 16:51 |
| dhellmann | rpodolyaka1: thanks! | 16:51 |
| * shardy adds to calendar | 16:51 | |
| rpodolyaka1 | oslo.db should be fine :) thanks, viktors|wfh! | 16:51 |
| dhellmann | shardy: cool | 16:51 |
| dhellmann | the way I envision this working is people sort of doing it during their normal hours, unless you want to work a longer day that day :-) | 16:52 |
| dhellmann | I'll try to be online very early my time to overlap with the folks in europe | 16:52 |
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| dhellmann | #topic Ongoing work & Review priorities | 16:53 |
| dhellmann | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/next-kilo | 16:53 |
| dhellmann | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/kilo-1 | 16:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing work & Review priorities (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:53 | |
| dhellmann | is anyone blocked on any work they are doing because they need reviews, or something to land before they can proceed? | 16:53 |
| dhellmann | what are our priorities this week? | 16:54 |
| dhellmann | we talked about the rabbit heartbeat issue | 16:54 |
| dhellmann | #info rabbit heartbeat review | 16:54 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/126330 | 16:54 |
| dhellmann | what else? | 16:54 |
| sileht | I have not got the status of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134727/ | 16:54 |
| sileht | someone works on a fix ? | 16:54 |
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| dhellmann | sileht: I'm not sure, I need to ask the devstack team about what they're doing there | 16:55 |
| dhellmann | unless you want to talk to them? | 16:55 |
| sileht | gate is a bit blocked since the new jobs are in place | 16:55 |
| sileht | dhellmann, sure | 16:55 |
| dhellmann | sileht: great, thanks | 16:55 |
| dhellmann | #action sileht talk to devstack team about updating to not install oslo from source in stable branches | 16:56 |
| kgiusti | I'm stuck on a threading issue in the 1.0 driver :( | 16:56 |
| dhellmann | how about anyone else? | 16:56 |
| kgiusti | no bug yet | 16:56 |
| dhellmann | kgiusti: ok, maybe start a ML thread if you need to pull in some help? | 16:56 |
| kgiusti | +1 will do | 16:57 |
| dhellmann | dims: how is oslo.context looking? I didn't put that on our release list, should it be there? | 16:57 |
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| dims | dhellmann: checking, i think all we had is in already | 16:57 |
| dims | yep. it's ready | 16:58 |
| dhellmann | dims: I don't see any open reviews, but maybe we were waiting for some of the specs related to the context class API? | 16:58 |
| dims | dhellmann: yes, those all got merged | 16:58 |
| dims | so we are good | 16:58 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/132551 | 16:58 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/124847 | 16:59 |
| dhellmann | those 2 specs are related to context | 16:59 |
| dhellmann | do we want to do that work before we release? | 16:59 |
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| dims | dhellmann: could we unblock oslo.log first? | 16:59 |
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| dhellmann | dims: well, that first one with the app-agnostic-logging-parameters affects logging, too :-/ | 17:00 |
| dims | k | 17:00 |
| bnemec | Yeah, that one was kind of the whole reason we want oslo.context to exist. | 17:01 |
| dhellmann | let's see if we can land the spec this week :-) | 17:01 |
| dims | sounds good | 17:01 |
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| dhellmann | ok, we're a bit over time so we should stop | 17:01 |
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| dhellmann | we'll move to #openstack-oslo for a quick review of the release process and I can schedule 1:1 meetings with anyone who wants them | 17:01 |
| dhellmann | thanks, everyone! | 17:01 |
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| dhellmann | #endmeeting | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 24 17:02:04 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:02 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2014/oslo.2014-11-24-16.00.html | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2014/oslo.2014-11-24-16.00.txt | 17:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2014/oslo.2014-11-24-16.00.log.html | 17:02 |
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| davidlenwell | #startmeeting refstack | 19:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 24 19:05:31 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is davidlenwell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'refstack' | 19:05 |
| sslypushenko__ | o/ | 19:05 |
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| catherind_d | o/ | 19:05 |
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| davidlenwell | good morning everyone | 19:06 |
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| davidlenwell | okay .. seems like its just us chickens this morning. | 19:07 |
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| davidlenwell | I'm still working on this q/a spec.. I'm deep into how the tools should work.. will throw that at the wall today for review. | 19:08 |
| sslypushenko__ | Good news | 19:09 |
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| sslypushenko__ | Rob asks me to prepare some script for uuid generation | 19:09 |
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| davidlenwell | the only thing I am going to leave unfinished is how to use it as a gate job.. hopefully I'll get some input from some infra folks or someone who understands how that stuff works | 19:09 |
| davidlenwell | sslypushenko__: yes .. that will be based on this spec | 19:10 |
| sslypushenko__ | But I want to see spec first | 19:10 |
| davidlenwell | however .. I wouldn't expect this spec to land in q/a for at least two weeks after I first post it | 19:10 |
| davidlenwell | I believe it will have to go through some iterations | 19:10 |
| sslypushenko__ | sure thing | 19:10 |
| davidlenwell | because it effects everyone else .. | 19:10 |
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| davidlenwell | catherind_d do you have anything to discuss today? | 19:11 |
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| catherind_d | about sslypushenko 's latest patch on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132583/6/README.rst | 19:12 |
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| davidlenwell | I th ought we talked about removing the tempest-dir input ? | 19:13 |
| catherind_d | I think we still need to discuss I think we want to only test with tempest-2 | 19:13 |
| catherind_d | yes and remove the tempest-dir | 19:13 |
| davidlenwell | until the changes effected by the q/a spec I am working on land .. yes .. we are going to use tempest-2 | 19:13 |
| catherind_d | sslypushenko__: are you in sync with us? | 19:14 |
| davidlenwell | sslypushenko__: Do you need me to leave these comments in the review.. or can you take this out? | 19:14 |
| sslypushenko__ | Hardcode tempest-2? | 19:14 |
| davidlenwell | for now .. yes | 19:14 |
| catherind_d | I think so | 19:14 |
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| davidlenwell | and for the docs not to reflect those options | 19:14 |
| catherind_d | and remove tempest-dir | 19:14 |
| sslypushenko__ | Please leave some comments on review board | 19:14 |
| davidlenwell | will do | 19:15 |
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| sslypushenko__ | but I'm totaly disagree with such step | 19:15 |
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| catherind_d | sslypushenko__: but since we are all here ... we can take this time to clear any question | 19:15 |
| catherind_d | sslypushenko__: reason for disagrement? | 19:16 |
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| davidlenwell | done | 19:16 |
| davidlenwell | anything else? | 19:16 |
| sslypushenko__ | I'm sure that we should divide reqerements refstack from tempest | 19:17 |
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| catherind_d | API code ... davidlenwell: can yoy check in after the Q/A spec (I know you are deep in that) ... so Paul can help finish up? | 19:17 |
| davidlenwell | yes catherind_d | 19:17 |
| davidlenwell | I can do that | 19:17 |
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| catherind_d | davidlenwell: Thanks! | 19:18 |
| catherind_d | sslypushenko__: The reason we want to test only on Tempest-2 is becauuse testcase/ names keep changing ... until this is fixed with UUID we should only test with one version | 19:19 |
| davidlenwell | I don't think he's arguing | 19:20 |
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| catherind_d | Next Chris is working on standing up refstack.org in infra env? | 19:20 |
| sslypushenko__ | So story 309 is should t be implemented in this case? Am I right? | 19:21 |
| sslypushenko__ | I meant https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/309 | 19:22 |
| davidlenwell | he's supposed to be.. however he informed us earlier he won't be here right now.. So I'll catch up with him later today about that issue. | 19:22 |
| davidlenwell | also .. we don't want refstack.org .. we want interop.openstack.org | 19:22 |
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| catherind_d | did we register the domain name? | 19:23 |
| davidlenwell | we don't have to | 19:23 |
| davidlenwell | its a subdomain | 19:23 |
| davidlenwell | of openstack.org | 19:23 |
| catherind_d | ic | 19:23 |
| catherind_d | good | 19:23 |
| catherind_d | https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/309 | 19:24 |
| davidlenwell | no point in disucssing it until he's around .. which he tells me he will be later on | 19:24 |
| catherind_d | sslypushenko__: or https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/309 at least not to add option f in the readme | 19:25 |
| catherind_d | the remove tempest-dir is in story https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/324 | 19:25 |
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| catherind_d | davidlenwell: agree on no point to discuss until Chris is around ... | 19:26 |
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| davidlenwell | okay .. So sslypushenko__you have a few things to do .. | 19:26 |
| davidlenwell | catherind_d: I'll post stuff later today after my review goes in.. | 19:27 |
| davidlenwell | I will also talk to chris later on about hosting and stuff | 19:27 |
| davidlenwell | if there is nothing else to discuss I am going to get back to it | 19:27 |
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| sslypushenko__ | Ok. I will do 324 story | 19:27 |
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| sslypushenko__ | Am I right that refstack has no plans to use external tempest in future? | 19:28 |
| catherind_d | sslypushenko__: thx | 19:29 |
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| davidlenwell | sslypushenko__: interop results don't mean a lot if you don't control what tests you are running | 19:29 |
| catherind_d | sslypushenko__: I would not say that for sure ... but we do not want to expose the option for now | 19:29 |
| catherind_d | so we can control the version that we are testing | 19:30 |
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| sslypushenko__ | So we can install tempest on setup_env script? | 19:30 |
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| catherind_d | sslypushenko__: yes .. that is how it work now right? | 19:31 |
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| davidlenwell | I think so yes | 19:32 |
| sslypushenko__ | Almost. But we should specify tag | 19:32 |
| sslypushenko__ | Right now script uses tempest from master | 19:33 |
| davidlenwell | I'm okay with that as long as the tag that was used gets passed to the api for storage | 19:33 |
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| catherind_d | and we do not want to uses master ... we need to use the tag (tempest-2) | 19:33 |
| davidlenwell | we need to default to tempest-2 but allow the user to over ride it | 19:34 |
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| sslypushenko__ | On what phase? | 19:34 |
| sslypushenko__ | On setup phase? | 19:35 |
| davidlenwell | I can see overriding it being useful .. but for that to cary any meaning we have to pass the tag name into the api when reporting the results | 19:35 |
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| davidlenwell | the cli should be able to wipe out and re-init the env eventually so that you can specify a tag at runtime | 19:35 |
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| sslypushenko__ | So I should add tempest tag arg to setup_env script? | 19:36 |
| davidlenwell | yes | 19:36 |
| sslypushenko__ | Am I right? | 19:36 |
| sslypushenko__ | Good | 19:36 |
| catherind_d | great | 19:37 |
| catherind_d | that is all from me | 19:37 |
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| davidlenwell | okay .. | 19:37 |
| davidlenwell | I'll call this finished early | 19:37 |
| catherind_d | thx sslypushenko__: and davidlenwell: | 19:37 |
| sslypushenko__ | I thing from my side | 19:37 |
| catherind_d | yes sslypushenko__: | 19:37 |
| sslypushenko__ | Please review this patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129320/ | 19:38 |
| sslypushenko__ | Live demo is availble | 19:38 |
| catherind_d | sslypushenko__: yes I have been reviewing .... looks good ... I think davidlenwell: is next to review with fresh eyes and idea | 19:39 |
| sslypushenko__ | I hope these templates will be helpfull | 19:39 |
| davidlenwell | yes sslypushenko__ they are .. thank you for your hard work | 19:39 |
| catherind_d | davidlenwell: I already +1 this patch many times .... if you are OK we can merge .... | 19:40 |
| davidlenwell | I'll review it now | 19:40 |
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| davidlenwell | okay .. | 19:40 |
| catherind_d | davidlenwell: thx | 19:40 |
| davidlenwell | anything else in channel | 19:40 |
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| sslypushenko__ | It was qute interesting experience. I have never written on JS before) | 19:40 |
| davidlenwell | #endmeeting | 19:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:40 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 24 19:40:51 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:40 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2014/refstack.2014-11-24-19.05.html | 19:40 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2014/refstack.2014-11-24-19.05.txt | 19:40 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2014/refstack.2014-11-24-19.05.log.html | 19:40 |
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| redrobot | #startmeeting barbican | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 24 20:00:14 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is redrobot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:00 |
| redrobot | #topic Roll Call | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| tkelsey | o/ | 20:00 |
| rm_work | o/ | 20:00 |
| dave-mccowan | o/ | 20:00 |
| hyakuhei | o/ | 20:00 |
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| atiwari | o/ | 20:00 |
| jaosorior | o/ | 20:00 |
| alee_ | o/ | 20:00 |
| chellygel | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 20:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 20:01 |
| elmiko | hi, visiting from sahara land, hoping to soak up some knowledge =) | 20:01 |
| rellerreller | o/ | 20:01 |
| jvrbanac | o/ | 20:01 |
| redrobot | elmiko welcome! | 20:01 |
| reaperhulk | o/ | 20:01 |
| jaosorior | bknudson: yo | 20:01 |
| woodster_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| redrobot | woohoo! lots of barbicaneers here today | 20:01 |
| reaperhulk | how many of us are actually supposed to be on vacation? | 20:01 |
| chellygel | 1,2,3 not it | 20:01 |
| rm_work | USE YOUR ETO FOR ETO (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ | 20:01 |
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| hyakuhei | whats "vacation" ? | 20:02 |
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| redrobot | rm_work lol | 20:02 |
| redrobot | as usual the agenda can be found here: | 20:02 |
| redrobot | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican | 20:02 |
| chellygel | ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) chill out dude | 20:02 |
| jaosorior | lol, dafuq | 20:02 |
| rm_work | :P | 20:02 |
| redrobot | Weve got a couple of things on the agenda for today | 20:03 |
| hyakuhei | Sorry, I thought this was the 7030 meeting... | 20:03 |
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| redrobot | #topic Validation for Typed Container data (Certificates, etc) | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Validation for Typed Container data (Certificates, etc) (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:03 | |
| redrobot | rm_work you wanted to talk about this? | 20:03 |
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| rm_work | So, do we think this is a feasible thing to move onto the Barbican side? | 20:03 |
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| redrobot | hyakuhei we talked about it last week | 20:03 |
| rm_work | There is some work associated with this (ie, processing time on the API nodes) | 20:03 |
| rm_work | But I think that on a user creation of a CertificateContainer and the like, we should have validators to make sure the data is actually... correct for that container type | 20:04 |
| rm_work | What do other people think? | 20:04 |
| hyakuhei | Checking there's a key and a cert and possibly a passphrase? that sort of thing? | 20:04 |
| rm_work | yeah | 20:04 |
| hyakuhei | and checking that theyre functionally correct? | 20:04 |
| rm_work | yes | 20:05 |
| rm_work | and match each other | 20:05 |
| hyakuhei | ie right key for cert? | 20:05 |
| hyakuhei | ok cool | 20:05 |
| rm_work | yep | 20:05 |
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| tkelsey | sounds reasonable to me | 20:05 |
| rm_work | and the cert isn't actually a recipe for a quiche | 20:05 |
| rm_work | a SECRET recipe | 20:05 |
| tkelsey | lol | 20:05 |
| hyakuhei | Hmm, that gets harder | 20:05 |
| hyakuhei | I mean, validating ASN.1 | 20:05 |
| hyakuhei | and checking some fields are present maybe? | 20:05 |
| hyakuhei | but you can abuse X509 in so many ways :D | 20:06 |
| rm_work | not sure how deep we want to get | 20:06 |
| rellerreller | When you certificates do we just mean x.509 or other types of certs too? | 20:06 |
| rm_work | what we're doing for Octavia is just attempting to load up the cert as an x509 object with pyOpenSSL and using the passphrase passed to us | 20:06 |
| rm_work | and if it loads, success! then we make sure the PK is for the cert | 20:06 |
| atiwari | rm_work, while creating container we just provide reference to the cet, passwd etc... | 20:07 |
| rellerreller | I agree with hyakuhei with ASN.1 validation | 20:07 |
| atiwari | cert | 20:07 |
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| rm_work | but initially, I don't think we could do anything more than very basic checks like that | 20:07 |
| hyakuhei | Seems like a reasonable firt step | 20:07 |
| rm_work | atiwari: yeah, so that's one of the complications | 20:07 |
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| hyakuhei | Get the plumbing right and we can work on clever checks later ? | 20:07 |
| rellerreller | rm_work this sounds similar to the content type work that I have been working on | 20:07 |
| rm_work | we'd have to actually retrieve the secret data | 20:07 |
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| rm_work | since as atiwari points out, we don't have it directly | 20:07 |
| atiwari | rm_work, then what to validate. Actual reference? | 20:07 |
| rm_work | are there security concerns there? | 20:07 |
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| rm_work | would it be possible to do it by doing some pre-parsing on secret data and filling in some meta fields, so we could do some validation without actually examining the secret payload? | 20:08 |
| rm_work | I don't actually know, I am speculating | 20:08 |
| alee_ | rm_work, so I understand - when would these validations be triggered? when the secret is added to a certificate container? | 20:08 |
| hyakuhei | pre-parsing ie on the client end? | 20:08 |
| rm_work | alee_: yeah, for Container creation | 20:08 |
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| rm_work | hyakuhei: might have to be server, to be consistent | 20:09 |
| rm_work | since not everyone will use the python client | 20:09 |
| rm_work | which is a performance concern | 20:09 |
| hyakuhei | Sure, I was just looking for clarification | 20:09 |
| rm_work | I wanted this topic brought up so we could figure out what problems this would have and if it's even feasible :) | 20:09 |
| atiwari | rm_work, are you thinking of pulling the secret and check is that is x509 cert or not? something like that? | 20:10 |
| rm_work | hyakuhei: but yes, essentially just the basic plumbing would be a great start | 20:10 |
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| rm_work | atiwari: that is the most obvious way, yeah | 20:10 |
| alee_ | rm_work, so you add a certificate container, then you add a private key ref, then you add a public key ref? and when you add the public key, the checks get triggered? | 20:10 |
| rm_work | not sure if that is a performance/security concern | 20:10 |
| rm_work | alee_: err, the CertContainer creation is one operation | 20:10 |
| woodster_ | hmmm...given that secrets are created first, maybe we'd want the metadata to be specific/validated at that level, and then when put into container just check the secret metadata is as expected? | 20:11 |
| rm_work | I'm talking about server-side here | 20:11 |
| redrobot | I'm not sure we want to be in the business of decrypting secrets during container creation. | 20:11 |
| rm_work | redrobot: right, that is concerning | 20:11 |
| redrobot | woodster_ +1 | 20:11 |
| reaperhulk | woodster_: metadata of that type leaks information about the secret | 20:11 |
| rm_work | woodster_: yes, that was what I was proposing above | 20:11 |
| atiwari | alee_, I think process is other way. first you add cert, keys and then create container | 20:11 |
| rm_work | but reaperhulk is also correct :P | 20:11 |
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| rm_work | yeah, CertContainer creation is: 1) All secrets created and stored. 2) Container created with refs to all required secrets. | 20:12 |
| woodster_ | reaperhulk, are you arguing for no enforced/validated metadata on the secret as now? Then when put into a typed container, isn't that info still being leaked? | 20:12 |
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| atiwari | rm_work, is there any BP or use case defined anywhere? just to understand the details. | 20:12 |
| rm_work | are we talking about Typed Secrets now? | 20:12 |
| rm_work | CertSecret? | 20:12 |
| woodster_ | or are we just talking about reference validation here...that the secrets reside within the same barbican endpoint? | 20:13 |
| rm_work | woodster_: well, I am talking about functional validation | 20:13 |
| rm_work | atiwari: so for Octavia / LBaaS, we need to know that when a user gives us a ref to a Barbican CertificateContainer, that we will have a valid set of data | 20:13 |
| rm_work | so we don't accept it and then pull the cert and end up trying to start up HAProxy with a quiche recipe | 20:14 |
| atiwari | rm_work, OK so you are taking about an existing container? | 20:14 |
| woodster_ | well, if that functional validation isn't keyed to some metadata about the secret, then your only choice is container validation...i.e. you said this secret was a public key, let's verify that before adding to this container | 20:14 |
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| rm_work | or present a cert that isn't the correct cert for the PK we're using | 20:14 |
| redrobot | rm_work so what would be the benefit of having Barbican do this server side, vs Octavia validating the bytes it retrieves from Barbican? | 20:15 |
| rm_work | woodster_: right, which would require decryption of secrets at container creation time, which as redrobot said could be a security and performance issue | 20:15 |
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| rm_work | redrobot: so, we CAN do it on our side. I wanted to gauge the feasibility of doing it Barbican side | 20:15 |
| rm_work | as I see this kind of check being duplicated in almost every use case | 20:15 |
| rm_work | if we don't think it can be done... then that sucks, but it's not the end of the world | 20:16 |
| alee_ | rm_work, I can see trying to do some kind of validation when the cert container is created - because you have the relevant references ... but if you're going to do something like check if something encrypted by hte private key can be decrypted by the public, | 20:16 |
| alee_ | then you're talking about decrypting the secrets within the barbican server | 20:16 |
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| rm_work | alee_: yeah, that is the kind of check we're doing on our side... and yes, I can see the dilemma | 20:16 |
| atiwari | woodster_, how about adding an extension on container "/container/<id>/validate" and we will do the run time validation ? | 20:17 |
| alee_ | rm_work, I'd rather decrypt on the client. The client after all has access to the secret | 20:17 |
| atiwari | Lbaas can call this before using the contianer | 20:17 |
| jaosorior | rm_work: really wouldn't dig decrypting the secrets within the server :/ | 20:17 |
| rm_work | I'd worry about DDoS but that could be throttled I think | 20:17 |
| rm_work | jaosorior: yeah I know | 20:17 |
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| jaosorior | why didn't you wanna do it in the client side again? | 20:18 |
| rm_work | alee_: ok, so just build that validation into the python client? | 20:18 |
| woodster_ | atiwari, or maybe have a validate order so we can do this stuff asynchronously.... | 20:18 |
| redrobot | rm_work thats what I was about to suggest | 20:18 |
| rm_work | jaosorior: well, it depends on what you mean by client side | 20:18 |
| jaosorior | well, it would make more sense in python-barbicanclient | 20:18 |
| alee_ | rm_work, I think it needs to happen either in the client --- or in the backends where the secret is stored | 20:18 |
| redrobot | maybe having validation methods in the client would work? Secret().is_certificate | 20:18 |
| rm_work | actually, that would work to prevent code duplication | 20:18 |
| rm_work | yeah | 20:18 |
| rm_work | I think that's feasible | 20:19 |
| jaosorior | if someone is not using the client, then I guess they'll have to validate themselves in their codebase | 20:19 |
| rm_work | yep | 20:19 |
| rm_work | I think that's the best option | 20:19 |
| atiwari | woodster_, but I think Lbaas need it synchronously I think. | 20:19 |
| rm_work | yeah, I think doing it in python-barbicanclient is probably the best option | 20:19 |
| alee_ | rm_work, if the backend plugin has the capability to encrypt something and decrypt something , then you could do it there. | 20:19 |
| reaperhulk | Okay, so my understanding of why it was interesting to potentially have this done on the server side was that as currently designed octavia has to pull down the cert + key and do the check itself, then the data is fetched again by another system later. With a server side check it would be possible to make it so octavia itself never sees the decrypted secret. | 20:19 |
| reaperhulk | rm_work, is that accurate? | 20:19 |
| rm_work | on the read-side rather that as a pre-req for writing | 20:19 |
| woodster_ | then client side is best...it also has access to the private key used to gen a cert CSR too | 20:20 |
| rm_work | reaperhulk: yes | 20:20 |
| rm_work | that is the deeper problem description | 20:20 |
| rm_work | but I don't think we're going to solve that | 20:20 |
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| reaperhulk | it's useful for people here to know the context of why you ideally want it :) | 20:20 |
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| rm_work | so what reaperhulk mentioned was another motivation for this -- if our API can *trust* that the contents of a CertContainer is valid, we don't even need to look at it -- and we can wrap it end-to-end and never see it | 20:21 |
| rm_work | as is, we have to fetch the secret data just to validate it and throw it away | 20:21 |
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| woodster_ | ...which is what a client side check would do | 20:21 |
| rm_work | right :/ | 20:22 |
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| alee_ | rm_work, is the cert/key generated on the client - or the server? | 20:22 |
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| rm_work | alee_: cert/key is input by the user | 20:22 |
| atiwari | alee_, I think client | 20:22 |
| rm_work | outside of our workflow | 20:22 |
| woodster_ | if everyone uses barbican to gen their certs, no worries! :) | 20:22 |
| rm_work | woodster_: right | 20:22 |
| rm_work | :P | 20:22 |
| atiwari | user is providing everything | 20:22 |
| alee_ | and then -- the client generates the container , right? | 20:23 |
| rm_work | yes | 20:23 |
| rm_work | the End User | 20:23 |
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| rm_work | generates the container | 20:23 |
| rm_work | (client is a generic term) | 20:23 |
| alee_ | rm_work, so I see no reason that the client does not validate the key pair right then and there. | 20:23 |
| rm_work | we can't trust the End User | 20:23 |
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| rm_work | then again, if they put in bad data, it's their own fault if their LB goes into Error | 20:23 |
| alee_ | you're trusting them to provide a key/cert .. | 20:23 |
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| rm_work | the hope is that we can warn them specifically though and prevent stupidity from causing an issue | 20:24 |
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| alee_ | why not validate even before contacting barbican to create the container? | 20:24 |
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| rm_work | alee_: we don't have control over that | 20:24 |
| alee_ | if the check fails, then tell them "you're an idiot" | 20:24 |
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| chellygel | (^only if this is the real message plz) | 20:24 |
| rm_work | The CertificateContainer will exist before our system even enters the picture | 20:25 |
| rm_work | the End User will have created it on their own | 20:25 |
| rm_work | via... Maybe the python client? maybe Horizon? | 20:25 |
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| rm_work | We don't know | 20:25 |
| reaperhulk | rm_work: I think alee_'s question is why do you need to validate it before it gets to the end. Is that an optimization that really matters? Why not let it try to load in haproxy and handle the error in that (presumably highly rare) edge case? | 20:25 |
| alee_ | rm_work, ok - then validate before sending the key/cert to be stored. | 20:25 |
| rm_work | alee_: ... we don't send it to be stored | 20:26 |
| rm_work | the End User does | 20:26 |
| rm_work | or do you mean stored on HAProxy? | 20:26 |
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| rm_work | reaperhulk: we could just say "fuck it", yeah | 20:26 |
| rm_work | I'm not entirely opposed to that option | 20:26 |
| reaperhulk | Is that really fuck it? Either way you get an error and have to handle it | 20:26 |
| reaperhulk | You just have to pick where you want to handle it | 20:27 |
| rm_work | we could probably wrap this up -- it looks like the answer is that this can't be done server-side | 20:27 |
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| atiwari | alee_, container is created by lb end use with cert and keys. I think LB need capability to validate is the content is valid or not. | 20:27 |
| reaperhulk | probably not for now, but I'm still glad you added it to the agenda :) | 20:27 |
| redrobot | rm_work +1 | 20:27 |
| rm_work | but that adding methods to the python client would provide some good code if people want to use it | 20:27 |
| woodster_ | 1) user creates cert container 2) user tells LBaaS to create a LB with said container 3) LBaaS validates container via barbican client and tells user if it stinks 4) LBaaS saves container ID if valid | 20:27 |
| rm_work | correct ^^ woodster_ | 20:27 |
| redrobot | #agreed We won't do validation at Container creation for now | 20:28 |
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| redrobot | ok, moving on | 20:28 |
| rm_work | my next topic! :P | 20:28 |
| redrobot | #topic Castellan scope: include CertMgr / ContainerMgr support? | 20:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Castellan scope: include CertMgr / ContainerMgr support? (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:28 | |
| rm_work | I posted a comment on the CR to this end | 20:28 |
| rm_work | I would like to see this added to the project scope sooner than later | 20:28 |
| rellerreller | Which CR? | 20:29 |
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| rm_work | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136140/ | 20:29 |
| rm_work | the one you commented on :P | 20:29 |
| redrobot | rm_work thanks, I was digging for that link | 20:29 |
| rellerreller | haha Got it! | 20:29 |
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| rm_work | So, I have already modified the Cinder KeyMgr interface for use on Octavia | 20:29 |
| rm_work | and Neutron-LBaaS | 20:29 |
| rm_work | which is a perfect example of why it needs to be done somewhere central (I've already had to copy/paste it once) | 20:30 |
| rellerreller | +1 | 20:30 |
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| rellerreller | What changes did you need to make? | 20:30 |
| rm_work | and since that interface CAME FROM KeyMgr, it should be easy enough to integrate | 20:30 |
| rm_work | it's very similar -- Cert instead of Key, CertManager instead of KeyManager | 20:31 |
| rm_work | different methods... | 20:31 |
| rm_work | but otherwise | 20:31 |
| rm_work | it operates very similarly | 20:31 |
| rm_work | actual code work is incredibly minimal | 20:31 |
| rellerreller | I would suggest modifying it to make a Certificate a type of key or change the keymanager to a SecretManager | 20:31 |
| rm_work | and I'm more than happy to contribute if it's included in the project scope | 20:31 |
| woodster_ | does anyone object to adding a CertManager interface here? | 20:32 |
| rellerreller | Where keys/secrets are symmetric, asymmetric, certificates | 20:32 |
| rm_work | rellerreller: well, the issue is that it's not a Secret Manager | 20:32 |
| rm_work | it's a Container Manager | 20:32 |
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| rm_work | which is the main way in which it differs | 20:32 |
| rm_work | KeyMgr only deals with individual secrets | 20:32 |
| rm_work | not Containers of any kind | 20:32 |
| rm_work | there was discussion of making it more generic than Certs somehow | 20:32 |
| rm_work | since there are also RSAContainers | 20:32 |
| alee_ | rm_work, we chatted about this a bit - and I think get_cert, store_cert, delete_cert should be replaced by container management api calls. | 20:33 |
| rm_work | alee_: that is an option | 20:33 |
| rm_work | though if we remove too much of the Cert specific code | 20:33 |
| rm_work | it becomes significantly less useful | 20:34 |
| rellerreller | My concern would be having two different interfaces. Are you proposing having a KeyManager and a ContainerManager? | 20:34 |
| atiwari | rm_work, do we really need store cert through CertManager? | 20:34 |
| rm_work | well | 20:34 |
| atiwari | I think for Lbaas get_cert is enough? | 20:35 |
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| rm_work | well, sure | 20:35 |
| rm_work | but it should be complete | 20:35 |
| rellerreller | My concern with two different interfaces is that ContainerManager is likely highly tied to KeyManager. | 20:35 |
| rm_work | rellerreller: so, it comes down to "what is the backend doing" | 20:35 |
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| rm_work | since this is an interface | 20:35 |
| rellerreller | It seems like if we want a container concept then add it to KeyManager interface | 20:35 |
| rm_work | rellerreller: that would work too | 20:35 |
| rm_work | I only forked this completely because it was out-of-project from KeyMgr | 20:36 |
| rellerreller | I think that would be safer. Otherwise someone will deploy a KeyManager and ContainerManager that have no idea about each other. | 20:36 |
| atiwari | rellerreller, +1 | 20:36 |
| alee_ | rm_work, I agree that this is a topic that needs to be fleshed out -- but I think we're talking about two things 1) adding container management to KeyManager and 2) adding cert stuff to a CertManager | 20:36 |
| woodster_ | would most deployments use the same backend for both key manager and cert manager? | 20:36 |
| rm_work | woodster_: I would assume so | 20:37 |
| rm_work | So I assume if we provide a lot of interfaces, they could all be implemented without any real code duplication | 20:37 |
| rm_work | by the same provider | 20:37 |
| alee_ | I think container management is relatively uncontroversial. certmanager needs some more thought. | 20:37 |
| rm_work | yeah, I just don't want to see the specifics get dropped | 20:37 |
| rellerreller | Part of this too is what is a key. I would say a certificate would be another object it would manage. | 20:38 |
| rm_work | I would prefer to see some extra classes with more specific purpose | 20:38 |
| rm_work | than trying to genericize too much | 20:38 |
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| alee_ | rm_work, I think we need a blueprint we can all bash .. | 20:38 |
| rm_work | yes | 20:38 |
| rellerreller | +1 | 20:38 |
| jaosorior | rm_work: +1 | 20:38 |
| redrobot | #action rm_work to write blueprint for Certificate management in Castellan | 20:39 |
| rm_work | so, for now, we can agree that we need container support, and the basic project scope can be fixed to include that? i will be happy with that for now | 20:39 |
| rm_work | lol, aaaaand I just signed myself up for that | 20:39 |
| redrobot | rm_work :) | 20:39 |
| rm_work | ok | 20:39 |
| alee_ | rm_work, yup :) | 20:39 |
| woodster_ | one method is all you need: do_something(something_code, *args, **kwargs) | 20:39 |
| rm_work | sweet, thanks woodster_ | 20:39 |
| ekarlso- | q what's castellan ? | 20:39 |
| rm_work | I'm all set now :P | 20:39 |
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| alee_ | sorry guys - need to drop - back online later today .. but out for rest of the week .. | 20:40 |
| redrobot | ekarlso- it's the working name for a separate repo to hold a generic key manager interface | 20:40 |
| alee_ | happy t-day! | 20:40 |
| rellerreller | ekarlso- it's the new library that has the KeyManager interface | 20:40 |
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| woodster_ | alee, take care | 20:40 |
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| ekarlso- | ok :) | 20:40 |
| redrobot | alee_ have fun! eat lots of turkey! | 20:40 |
| elmiko | alee_: have fun =) | 20:40 |
| atiwari | alee_, have fun | 20:40 |
| * rm_work waves at alee_ | 20:41 | |
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| rm_work | next topic redrobot? | 20:41 |
| redrobot | #topic Content type | 20:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Content type (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:41 | |
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| redrobot | not sure who added this one? rellerreller ? | 20:41 |
| rellerreller | That was me | 20:41 |
| rellerreller | So for those unfamiliar with the content type problem here is the gist of it. | 20:41 |
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| rellerreller | A user uploads a secret to Barbican in format X. Another user downloads the key for usage but expects the key to be in another format. How do we handle different formats and what formats do we support? How can we change that a secret of type X is really a secret of type X? | 20:41 |
| rellerreller | This problem comes up with public keys. Some people are expecting PEM and others DER. | 20:42 |
| rellerreller | This has caused us a lot of confusion. | 20:42 |
| alee_ | oh thank god -- escaping before content types .. :) | 20:42 |
| redrobot | alee_ lol | 20:42 |
| rellerreller | The first part of this is how to represent keys and certificates. | 20:42 |
| rm_work | so is deep inspection and built-in automagic conversion routines out of the question? :P | 20:43 |
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| rellerreller | rm_work that is something that I would like and am working on | 20:43 |
| woodster_ | only if that take work on the API nodes to do it :) | 20:43 |
| rm_work | well, API nodes scale to whatever, right? :) | 20:43 |
| rellerreller | We need to define types so that when we are passed a public or private key then we can validate that it is one of those things | 20:43 |
| rm_work | rellerreller: HEY. this is a tie-in to topic #1 >_> | 20:44 |
| rellerreller | I have been looking at RFCs for days now trying to find how to represent keys. | 20:44 |
| rellerreller | rm_work I think this will help you out a lot | 20:44 |
| rm_work | so, Typed Secrets? | 20:44 |
| woodster_ | rm_work, agreed. I think that is leakage reaperhulk was concerned about? | 20:44 |
| rm_work | sounds like, yes | 20:44 |
| bknudson | http://pki-tutorial.readthedocs.org/en/latest/mime.html | 20:45 |
| rellerreller | I am leaning toward Base64 encoding of ASN.1 objects that are DER encoded. | 20:45 |
| woodster_ | is typing different than metadata then? | 20:45 |
| rm_work | still leaks data | 20:45 |
| rellerreller | woodster_ typing? | 20:45 |
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| rm_work | "Oh this is a PrivateKeySecret, yummy" | 20:45 |
| woodster_ | yeah, I'd prefer to have one standard type rather than allowing multiple ones | 20:45 |
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| rellerreller | The RFC, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5912#section-6, has some ASN.1 representations of public keys | 20:46 |
| woodster_ | rellerreller, typing, as in Typed Secret | 20:46 |
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| * redrobot needs to brush up on ASN1 | 20:46 | |
| woodster_ | ...instead of relying on the metadata for a secret | 20:46 |
| reaperhulk | famous last words | 20:46 |
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| redrobot | last time I looked at content-types I was a bit confused on how to represent Base64 | 20:47 |
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| rellerreller | No metadata for secret. First cut I plan to make all secrets of a type have the same represenation. Then later we can add translation to different types | 20:47 |
| redrobot | technically Base64 encoding is a Transport-Encoding not a Content-Type | 20:47 |
| woodster_ | reaperhulk, would having a 'type' sort of attribute to direct what type a secret is a no no? | 20:47 |
| rm_work | rellerreller: you mean we decide that all Certs are PEM, so if we get passed anything not PEM, we detect and convert to PEM for storage? | 20:47 |
| woodster_ | ...or reject it outright | 20:48 |
| rellerreller | Just wondering what people think of Base64 encoding of ASN.1 with DER encoding. | 20:48 |
| reaperhulk | woodster_: I would be okay with that | 20:48 |
| redrobot | rm_work I would think that we'd want to define our own content types? "application/barbican+asn1der" | 20:48 |
| reaperhulk | rellerreller: that's pretty much the definition of PEM although the underlying DER representation would ideally be PKCS8 for asymmetric keys | 20:48 |
| rm_work | redrobot: that seems redundant :/ | 20:48 |
| atiwari | rellerreller, I think that will cause problem in case of RSA container with password protected private keys | 20:49 |
| rellerreller | rm_work We would reject any object that is not encoded to the exact encoding for that type. | 20:49 |
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| rm_work | rellerreller: ok, so we ONLY accept PEM / whatever | 20:49 |
| atiwari | rellerreller, as mentioned in bug #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/barbican/+bug/1365187 | 20:49 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1365187 in barbican "Accept header application/octet-stream is not honored while getting Asymmetric secrets" [Undecided,In progress] | 20:49 |
| rellerreller | rm_work so if we decide certs will be in DER format then all certs must be in DER format and PEM certs will be rejected | 20:49 |
| rm_work | yeah, k | 20:49 |
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| rm_work | atiwari: depends on how the validation is done | 20:49 |
| rellerreller | atiwari How so? | 20:50 |
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| rm_work | if it's done by attempting to load it up, then yes that'd cause problems | 20:50 |
| rm_work | if it's done just by looking at structure and not validating functionally, then it'd be OK | 20:50 |
| atiwari | rellerreller, please take a look in the bug | 20:50 |
| rm_work | or if that were a fallback -- doesn't functionally validate, but it LOOKS ok | 20:50 |
| rm_work | though yeah, hard to convert that | 20:50 |
| atiwari | issue is we are storing in PEM serialized format | 20:51 |
| rellerreller | atiwari the issue is that people are storing things in whatever format they are given, and we have no idea what that is | 20:51 |
| woodster_ | rellerreller, is that a 'natural' format generated by ssl related tooling, or would folks need to use barbican client (yet again) to do the conversion easily? | 20:51 |
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| woodster_ | ....a little concerned about AJAX-y web pages using barbican API directly | 20:52 |
| rellerreller | DER encoding of ASN.1 seems to be the standard | 20:52 |
| rm_work | I kinda thought PEM was the standard, but I may live in a bubble | 20:52 |
| reaperhulk | ...okay, everyone halt for a minute :) | 20:52 |
| rm_work | LBaaS / Octavia was planning to assume/require PEM :P | 20:53 |
| rellerreller | PEM is Base64 of DER with a header and footer | 20:53 |
| reaperhulk | When it comes to asymmetric keys inconsistency is the order of the day | 20:53 |
| reaperhulk | as rellerreller said, PEM is just DER in base64 with delimiters | 20:53 |
| atiwari | rellerreller, IMO we have to restrict the format depending on type of secret ans associated properties . | 20:53 |
| reaperhulk | however, DER can be multiple formats inside it | 20:53 |
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| rellerreller | I chose DER because of inclusion in X.509. That RFC says how public keys are embedded in certificates. | 20:53 |
| reaperhulk | DER is merely the distinguished encoding rules for ASN.1 and there are several ASN.1 structures | 20:53 |
| reaperhulk | X.509 certs have only one (thankfully!) | 20:54 |
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| reaperhulk | but the private keys do not :) | 20:54 |
| rm_work | lol thanks for the clarification reaperhulk -- though now I am confused about some conversations I have had recently >_> | 20:54 |
| rellerreller | reaperhulk That was one of my problems is how to represent private keys | 20:54 |
| rm_work | pkcs8? | 20:54 |
| reaperhulk | Yeah we talked a bit about this in Paris. I would prefer a normalization to PKCS8 as it is the closest thing to a real standard that exists | 20:55 |
| rellerreller | The RFC only defines public keys. I cannot find ASN.1 modules for private keys except for RSA. | 20:55 |
| woodster_ | we need a new unifying standard dammit...how hard can that be? :) | 20:55 |
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| reaperhulk | Yeah, we've run into the same problem in pyca/cryptography... we should take this outside this meeting rellerreller but we may have some useful code for you | 20:55 |
| rm_work | 75% of private keys I see are PKCS8 I think :/ | 20:55 |
| woodster_ | maybe we need an etherpad to capture some the typical formats folks use with some examples? | 20:55 |
| rellerreller | But PKCS8 is only for RSA? | 20:55 |
| hyakuhei | woodster_: +1 | 20:56 |
| rellerreller | I can start etherpad on this | 20:56 |
| rellerreller | I can make the etherpad the beginning of my blueprint. | 20:56 |
| reaperhulk | rellerreller: You can definitely generate a PKCS8 for ECDSA/DSA keys | 20:56 |
| rellerreller | This is turning out to be a lot more difficult than what I anticipated. | 20:57 |
| reaperhulk | https://github.com/pyca/cryptography/pull/1390 <-- pure python parser for PEM keys and a serious PITA | 20:57 |
| redrobot | rellerreller heh.. isn't that always the case. :) | 20:57 |
| rellerreller | reapherhulk Thanks. There are a lot of new RFCs that I am trying to become expert with and that is not easy for me. | 20:57 |
| reaperhulk | That PR also has comments noting what RFC some of the ASN.1 structures came from | 20:58 |
| reaperhulk | so that might be helpful :) | 20:58 |
| rellerreller | reaperhulk that would be fantastic :) | 20:58 |
| woodster_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-formats-discussion | 20:58 |
| rellerreller | Google searching for this has been terrible | 20:58 |
| redrobot | Almost out of time y'all | 20:58 |
| redrobot | thanks for the etherpad woodster_ | 20:59 |
| woodster_ | well, if we could come up with reasonable typical formats and stick with those, that might do the trick? | 20:59 |
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| redrobot | we can continue discussion back at #openstack-barbican | 21:00 |
| redrobot | thanks for coming everyone | 21:00 |
| redrobot | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 24 21:00:05 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2014/barbican.2014-11-24-20.00.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2014/barbican.2014-11-24-20.00.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2014/barbican.2014-11-24-20.00.log.html | 21:00 |
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