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| lxsli | o/ | 13:59 |
|---|---|---|
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| edleafe | lxsli: early bird? | 14:00 |
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| n0ano | #startmeeting nova-scheduler | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Dec 7 14:01:09 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-scheduler)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 14:01 |
| n0ano | anyone here (other than edleafe & lxsli ) to talk about the scheduler | 14:01 |
| lxsli | bauzas: ping | 14:01 |
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| johnthetubaguy | lurking, ish | 14:02 |
| edleafe | lxsli: he's busy with ndipanov atm | 14:02 |
| n0ano | I wonder if jaypipes has that other meeting again | 14:03 |
| cdent | o/ | 14:03 |
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| n0ano | cdent, welcome | 14:04 |
| cdent | thanks | 14:04 |
| Yingxin | o/ | 14:04 |
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| n0ano | well, let's start, might be a relatively quick meeting today | 14:04 |
| n0ano | #topic specs & BPs | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "specs & BPs (Meeting topic: nova-scheduler)" | 14:04 | |
| n0ano | I see from the etherpad, https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-spec-review-tracking, that the only outstanding BP is one from jaypipes on request spec, is everyone else happy with their BPs | 14:05 |
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| n0ano | I guess we'll take silence as assent so I think the specs are under control, speak up if you have any concerns | 14:06 |
| n0ano | moving on | 14:07 |
| n0ano | #topic bugs | 14:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova-scheduler)" | 14:07 | |
| n0ano | not much change in the bug list, if anything it's gotten one or two bugs added so we need to think about that | 14:08 |
| n0ano | I'm going to see if I can get the Intel team in San Antonio to look into the scheduler bug list, I need to talk to them this week | 14:08 |
| Yingxin | I proposed 3 bugs just now | 14:08 |
| Yingxin | think they are related to scheduler | 14:09 |
| n0ano | Yingxin, you're supposed to clear them not add new ones :-) | 14:09 |
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| cdent | If someone wants to (or can) point me to a bug or two related to the scheduler that might be a good starting point, that would be excellent. | 14:09 |
| n0ano | NP, they'll just have to be triaged to make sure that's correct | 14:09 |
| edleafe | n0ano: there's a new guy on the SA Intel team I know from the Python world. Fresh to OpenStack. | 14:09 |
| n0ano | cdent, start from here https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=scheduler | 14:09 |
| edleafe | n0ano: I'd be happy to help him work on Scheduler bugs | 14:10 |
| cdent | Yup, n0ano already made it that far but the list is not short :) | 14:10 |
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| n0ano | edleafe, sure, feel free to reach out | 14:10 |
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| n0ano | cdent, feel free to scan the list and attack any bugs that looks interesting | 14:10 |
| edleafe | n0ano: his name is Yarko - I assume he's the only Yarko there :) | 14:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | n0ano: sorry, got distracted there. Heads up on specs, we are in the freeze period for all specs now, so any other specs will need to apply for an exception ASAP | 14:11 |
| n0ano | edleafe, probably, we're pulling in some people from Poland so that is not that strange | 14:11 |
| * bauzas waves late | 14:11 | |
| edleafe | n0ano: he's from Chicago :) | 14:11 |
| * n0ano has to stop sterotyping :-) | 14:12 | |
| n0ano | johnthetubaguy, the only one open is jaypipes and hopefully he's aware of the schedule, if not he will be now | 14:12 |
| n0ano | #action jaypipes to apply for exception on his request spec BP | 14:13 |
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| n0ano | anyway, we have a list of bugs, please try and address any you can (and encourage others to look at our bug list) | 14:14 |
| n0ano | #opens | 14:14 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 14:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: nova-scheduler)" | 14:14 | |
| cdent | ✔ | 14:14 |
| n0ano | so, anything new for today? | 14:14 |
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| * n0ano listening to crickets | 14:16 | |
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| n0ano | OK, for once I didn't jinx it and it was a short meeting | 14:16 |
| jaypipes | n0ano: you mean the resource-pools spec? | 14:16 |
| Yingxin | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/246476/ can I add this to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-priorities-tracking to get noticed? | 14:16 |
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| n0ano | jaypipes, yes, that's the only one not striked out so and it has -1's, are you going to update it? | 14:17 |
| Yingxin | It implements the bp use stevedore for scheduler host manager | 14:17 |
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| n0ano | Yingxin, note johnthetubaguy comment about spec freeze, it'll probably require an exception | 14:17 |
| Yingxin | It is approved as specless | 14:18 |
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| jaypipes | n0ano: yes. I actually have broken the resource-providers spec out into smaller more consumable chunks. I will try to get all of the chunks pushed today. | 14:18 |
| cdent | chunks++ | 14:18 |
| n0ano | Yingxin, Oh, in that case you should be good, I don't see a problem adding it to the priorities page, we can take if off it's a problem. | 14:19 |
| Yingxin | n0ano: thanks | 14:19 |
| n0ano | jaypipes, cool but it looks like you'll have to ask for an extension for it | 14:19 |
| jaypipes | n0ano: yes understood. | 14:20 |
| n0ano | anything else anyone? | 14:21 |
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| jaypipes | n0ano: Moscow is cold. | 14:21 |
| jaypipes | there, I said it. | 14:21 |
| n0ano | jaypipes, actually I think that only true something like 10-11 months out of the year :-) | 14:22 |
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| edleafe | jaypipes: controversial~ | 14:22 |
| edleafe | s/~/! | 14:22 |
| jaypipes | hehe | 14:22 |
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| n0ano | OK, tnx everyone, we'll talk again next week | 14:22 |
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| n0ano | #endmeeting | 14:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_dvr)" | 14:23 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Dec 7 14:23:08 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:23 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-12-07-14.01.html | 14:23 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-12-07-14.01.txt | 14:23 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-12-07-14.01.log.html | 14:23 |
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| bauzas | meh I had some network blip | 14:24 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: jaypipes: cdent: sorry I was just chatting, but I had a network issue | 14:25 |
| n0ano | bauzas, bummer, did you have anything else (maybe we can raise it on the ML if necessary) | 14:25 |
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| bauzas | (15:17:33) bauzas: n0ano: s/request spec/resource providers/ spec | 14:25 |
| bauzas | (15:17:48) bauzas: n0ano: tbc, we're talking about resource usage, not request data :) | 14:25 |
| bauzas | (15:18:14) bauzas: cdent: something is missing that I think you could help | 14:25 |
| bauzas | (15:18:28) bauzas: cdent: atm, we don't do functional testing on all the filters combinations | 14:25 |
| bauzas | (15:19:03) bauzas: cdent: we only rely on some tempest testing for the default filters + the standard config | 14:25 |
| bauzas | n0ano: ^ | 14:25 |
| bauzas | cdent: ^ | 14:26 |
| cdent | right on bauzas, that seems like a good idea | 14:26 |
| bauzas | cdent: I had a local venv for that but that's basically a POC | 14:27 |
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| cdent | tell me more over openstack-nova? | 14:27 |
| bauzas | ack | 14:27 |
| n0ano | bauzas, I think jaypipes is restrucuring that BP so it'll probably all change slightly | 14:27 |
| jaypipes | bauzas: just breaking it into smaller pieces. | 14:28 |
| bauzas | jaypipes: yup, I saw, you referring to the PCI work ? | 14:29 |
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| jaypipes | bauzas: actually, no... I broke out the resource classes, generic resource pools, and RESTful API changes into separate specs and narrowed the resource-providers spec to just the work of handling inventory management... | 14:30 |
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| sc68cal | Hi all | 15:00 |
| roaet | hi | 15:00 |
| sc68cal | #startmeeting neutron_upgrades | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Dec 7 15:00:37 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_upgrades' | 15:00 |
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| sc68cal | Ihar is off this week and asked me to run the meeting in his absence | 15:00 |
| roaet | thanks sc68cal | 15:01 |
| sc68cal | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-Upgrades-Subteam#Agenda Agenda | 15:01 |
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| sc68cal | Ihar updated the agenda section on friday before he left | 15:02 |
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| sc68cal | #topic Announcements | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:03 | |
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| sc68cal | partial multinode grenade has hit a snag where we are seeing issues with the initial resource creation phase | 15:04 |
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| sc68cal | so, we need to resolve the bugs so that the job can actually get to the upgrade phase | 15:05 |
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| sc68cal | ihar put some notes down for the OVO pieces - the good news is no spec needed, RFE may not be needed; devref documenting conversion process is required; one or two objects to be chosen for Mitaka cycle | 15:06 |
| sc68cal | anyone else have any announcements? | 15:07 |
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| roaet | not i | 15:09 |
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| mhickey | no | 15:10 |
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| sc68cal | I don't see rossella on, but a patch has been posted for her work piece https://review.openstack.org/#/c/253641/ | 15:11 |
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| sc68cal | #topic Open Discussion | 15:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_upgrades)" | 15:12 | |
| sc68cal | It seems a little dead today | 15:13 |
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| roaet | a little | 15:14 |
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| sc68cal | yep it seems pretty dead. I think we'll go ahead and wrap up for the day | 15:19 |
| roaet | thanks for running it anywho sc68cal | 15:19 |
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| sc68cal | roaet: thanks :) | 15:19 |
| sc68cal | see you all next week! | 15:20 |
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| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 15:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_dvr)" | 15:20 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Dec 7 15:20:12 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:20 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_upgrades/2015/neutron_upgrades.2015-12-07-15.00.html | 15:20 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_upgrades/2015/neutron_upgrades.2015-12-07-15.00.txt | 15:20 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_upgrades/2015/neutron_upgrades.2015-12-07-15.00.log.html | 15:20 |
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| harlowja_at_home | #startmeeting oslo | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Dec 7 16:00:20 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is harlowja_at_home. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:00 | |
| amrith | ./ | 16:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 16:00 |
| johnsom_ | o/ | 16:00 |
| harlowja_at_home | howdy | 16:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 16:00 |
| ozamiatin | o/ | 16:00 |
| rpodolyaka | o/ | 16:00 |
| harlowja_at_home | (let's see if dims shows up, he's traveling so I might be taking over, but he said he might be on) | 16:00 |
| gcb | o/ | 16:00 |
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| harlowja_at_home | courtesy ping for GheRivero, amotoki, amrith, bknudson, bnemec, dansmith, dhellmann, dougwig, e0ne, flaper87, garyk, haypo, | 16:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 16:01 |
| harlowja_at_home | courtesy ping for ihrachyshka, jd__, jecarey, johnsom, jungleboyj, kgiusti, kragniz, lifeless, lintan, ozamiatin, redrobot, rpodolyaka, spamaps | 16:01 |
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| harlowja_at_home | ok, i guess we'll just see if dims arrives late, if not thats ok to | 16:01 |
| haypo | hello | 16:01 |
| harlowja_at_home | hola | 16:01 |
| harlowja_at_home | #topic Red flags for/from liaisons | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red flags for/from liaisons (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:02 | |
| johnsom_ | This just popped up on my radar, so I haven't had time to search, is oslo going to go through and rename tenant->project like neutron is doing? i.e. oslo_context | 16:02 |
| rbradfor | o/ | 16:02 |
| bknudson | Nothing from keystone as far as I know | 16:02 |
| harlowja_at_home | johnsom_, seems like we should, how about we bring that up in a little | 16:02 |
| * amrith listens intently to the answer to johnsom_ question as it would impact Trove. | 16:03 | |
| johnsom_ | Otherwise I don't have anything | 16:03 |
| amrith | I have a question re: oslo.db and downgrades | 16:03 |
| amrith | but that's not a 'red flag' | 16:03 |
| harlowja_at_home | :) | 16:03 |
| amrith | I will wait. | 16:03 |
| harlowja_at_home | so seems like nothing to raise, which is great :) | 16:04 |
| harlowja_at_home | less red the better :-P | 16:04 |
| harlowja_at_home | #topic Releases for Mitaka | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Releases for Mitaka (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:04 | |
| harlowja_at_home | so dims seems to have put up https://review.openstack.org/#/c/253860/ | 16:04 |
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| harlowja_at_home | so check that out if you need a release, or if you don't need one... | 16:05 |
| harlowja_at_home | seems like dhellmann wanted confirmation about 2.6 dropping on some of those, hopefully that got resolved though (but just incase folks check that out) | 16:06 |
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| dhellmann | yep, I'm happy with that. I left the request there for dims to process, but I can do it if he'd like since he's traveling | 16:06 |
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| harlowja_at_home | cool | 16:07 |
| haypo | gcb: ^^ | 16:07 |
| bknudson | we do a lot of releases. | 16:07 |
| gcb | haypo, yes will do that better | 16:08 |
| haypo | dhellmann: if i recall correctly, recent 2.6 changes were restricted to unit tests | 16:08 |
| gcb | and remove python 2.6 work around | 16:08 |
| harlowja_at_home | bknudson, we def do | 16:08 |
| dhellmann | haypo : yes, that has been confirmed. I asked for more descriptive commit messages in the future to cut down on the heart-attack factor when reviewing release requests ;-) | 16:08 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:08 |
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| jungleboyj | Hello all. | 16:09 |
| harlowja_at_home | jungleboyj, hello | 16:09 |
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| harlowja_at_home | #topic Rename tenant->project idea | 16:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rename tenant->project idea (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:10 | |
| bknudson | oslo_context should use tenant rather than project | 16:10 |
| harlowja_at_home | johnsom_, so whats the whole status of this discussion | 16:10 |
| johnsom_ | Ha! Not my idea, but trying to keep up. | 16:10 |
| bknudson | I was embarrassed to propose use of oslo_context to keystone since it used tenant :( | 16:11 |
| dhellmann | to change that we'll have to add an alias in one direction or the other so that both names work | 16:11 |
| johnsom_ | Neutron is going through and re-naming tenant->project. I don't have the background link handy. We were updating Octavia and noticed some of the oslo APIs use tenant. | 16:11 |
| johnsom_ | We were just wondering if those are going to change and if so when. | 16:12 |
| johnsom_ | dhellmann +1 | 16:12 |
| haypo | sorry, i don't know the plan. do you (who?) want to *drop* the tenant name, or just make an alias? | 16:12 |
| bknudson | as far as I know nobody proposed the change yet. it's on my todo list (not that I'll likely ever get to it) | 16:13 |
| harlowja_at_home | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/debtcollector/api.html#debtcollector.moves.moved_read_only_property (could be the alias mechanism)? | 16:13 |
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| harlowja_at_home | anyone know how many places use tenant though, probably useful to figure that out also and see how to address each place | 16:13 |
| rbradfor | bknudson, I'm happy to pick it up from your list. | 16:13 |
| bknudson | (it's not documented as read-only) | 16:13 |
| dhellmann | haypo : other teams are trying to standardize on "project" apparently (we seem to change this every other year or so) | 16:13 |
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| harlowja_at_home | ok http://docs.openstack.org/developer/debtcollector/api.html#debtcollector.moves.moved_property bknudson i guess that then :-P | 16:13 |
| dhellmann | haypo : for us to support that, we would have to produce releases that used both names, then deprecate tenant over some period of time | 16:14 |
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| bknudson | just use the moved_property decorator if you can | 16:14 |
| rbradfor | dhellmann, what would you consider as length of deprecation, after M? | 16:14 |
| dhellmann | unless someone is really excited about doing that work, I think I'd put it off to see how far the migration gets in other projects | 16:14 |
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| * harlowja_at_home remembers back in the day when this was brought up like 3 years ago, ha | 16:15 | |
| harlowja_at_home | oh the good ole days | 16:15 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:15 |
| gcb | Do we need a openstack-spec for that ? | 16:15 |
| dhellmann | rbradfor : well, lifeless wants "never break the API" so maybe "forever"? but we have standard rollout requirements for removing deprecated things http://governance.openstack.org/reference/tags/assert_follows-standard-deprecation.html | 16:15 |
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| johnsom_ | #link http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.cloud.openstack.devel/70846/match=rename+tenant+project+discussion | 16:16 |
| bknudson | we need to leave it there for all supported releases, so when M goes out of support | 16:16 |
| johnsom_ | That seems to be the start of the recent neutron thread on the topic | 16:16 |
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| harlowja_at_home | johnsom_, thanks | 16:16 |
| dhellmann | bknudson : ++ | 16:16 |
| bknudson | ... so I think that means can be removed in the P release | 16:17 |
| dhellmann | bknudson : assuming all consuming projects have been updated | 16:17 |
| harlowja_at_home | so i'm somewhat agreed with dhellmann if someone really is itching to do this work, sure, but it also might be worthwhile to let that ML discussion bake a little more? | 16:17 |
| dhellmann | yeah, let's keep an eye on this but not jump right on it | 16:17 |
| bknudson | I'll get around to it eventually if nobody else does | 16:17 |
| harlowja_at_home | (i've also seen the project/tenant renaming toggle for the last 3-4 years, ha) | 16:17 |
| dhellmann | someone should come up with a 3rd word so we can stop toggling back and forth | 16:18 |
| harlowja_at_home | bknudson, fair enough, if rbradfor u want to, thats ok to | 16:18 |
| harlowja_at_home | dhellmann, protenant | 16:18 |
| bknudson | if rbradfor does it I'll be happy to review | 16:18 |
| rbradfor | harlowja_at_home, bknudson happy to monitor ML discussion and take this on. | 16:19 |
| harlowja_at_home | tenaproj | 16:19 |
| bknudson | we switched keystone to use unicorn for a while | 16:19 |
| harlowja_at_home | :) | 16:19 |
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| harlowja_at_home | rbradfor, cool, feel free :) | 16:19 |
| bknudson | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97838/ | 16:20 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:20 |
| rbradfor | lol | 16:20 |
| harlowja_at_home | nice | 16:20 |
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| harlowja_at_home | #topic oslo.db and downgrades | 16:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "oslo.db and downgrades (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:21 | |
| harlowja_at_home | amrith, yt | 16:21 |
| harlowja_at_home | what did u want to bring up? | 16:21 |
| harlowja_at_home | ok guess we'll have to skip that :) | 16:22 |
| amrith | yes | 16:22 |
| amrith | am here, was looking for a link | 16:22 |
| harlowja_at_home | ah | 16:22 |
| harlowja_at_home | kk | 16:22 |
| amrith | can't find it now | 16:22 |
| amrith | it is about the cross project spec | 16:22 |
| amrith | re: downgrades | 16:22 |
| amrith | I was wondering whether all projects are doing this | 16:23 |
| amrith | and whether oslo.db couldn't just handle it | 16:23 |
| bknudson | keystone doesn't support downgrades | 16:23 |
| dhellmann | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-specs/specs/no-downward-sql-migration.html | 16:23 |
| amrith | without a change in the projects. | 16:23 |
| rpodolyaka | amrith: I believe you would still need to update the projects code | 16:23 |
| rpodolyaka | e.g. to modify CLI | 16:23 |
| dhellmann | I think the spec is just "stop doing downgrades" right? Do we have to change any code? | 16:24 |
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| amrith | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/152337/ | 16:24 |
| amrith | so there's code change | 16:24 |
| bknudson | looks like we've got some code for it: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/common/sql/migration_helpers.py#n152 | 16:24 |
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| amrith | and we have to remove all the downgrade actions | 16:24 |
| amrith | I was wondering (a) whether that is required and (b) whether there's abetter way | 16:24 |
| amrith | here are mor elinks | 16:25 |
| amrith | more links | 16:25 |
| amrith | .. [1] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/152337/ | 16:25 |
| amrith | .. [2] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167554/2 | 16:25 |
| amrith | .. [3] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167834/ | 16:25 |
| amrith | .. [4] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167189/2 | 16:25 |
| amrith | .. [5] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/165740/ | 16:25 |
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| amrith | I get these from a trove spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/252477/ | 16:25 |
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| amrith | I'm wondering why each project must do this; shouldn't there be an easier and more centralized way of handling this | 16:25 |
| amrith | say, in OSLO? | 16:25 |
| amrith | that's the question. | 16:25 |
| harlowja_at_home | seems like a decent question | 16:26 |
| harlowja_at_home | perhaps http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/common/sql/migration_helpers.py#n152 should live in oslo.db ? | 16:26 |
| rbradfor | amrith, I am not part of this discussion but as a person with some large RDBMS experience, removing downgrades is a bad idea. Restore to a known backup has multiple failure points. | 16:26 |
| amrith | Ron, hello | 16:26 |
| amrith | I think you know who I am ;) | 16:26 |
| rbradfor | amrith, of course! | 16:27 |
| bknudson | amrith: what code? | 16:27 |
| amrith | I'm asking with my Trove hat, not with a "database guy" hat | 16:27 |
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| rpodolyaka | amrith: harlowja_at_home: so I'd leave this to projects. IMO, oslo.db should allow one to do downgrades. as it's a library | 16:27 |
| harlowja_at_home | rpodolyaka, ya its a tough thing to have oslo.db enforce | 16:27 |
| amrith | that's the point rpodolyaka ... if the TC feels that downgrades are not a good idea, why wouldn't oslo.db enforce it? | 16:28 |
| bknudson | there's a work item in the spec that says to upgrade oslo.db to return errors on downgrade | 16:28 |
| dhellmann | I think we could eventually drop something in oslo.db but as rpodolyaka says we want oslo libs to enable the projects to support the features they want to have | 16:28 |
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| bknudson | if oslo.db added something we could use it in keystone | 16:28 |
| harlowja_at_home | bknudson, right, or maybe its a variation of that thing in keystone, not sure | 16:28 |
| amrith | I feel that operationally, projects and deployers are being put in an awkward situation by this change to declare downgrades as "bad". | 16:28 |
| dhellmann | amrith : the spec is not "do not ever do downgrades" it says "downgrades do not need to be supported" | 16:29 |
| dhellmann | so it's up to the project teams to decide whether they want to support downgrades or not | 16:29 |
| rpodolyaka | + | 16:29 |
| amrith | dhellmann, this may be semantic | 16:29 |
| amrith | but the cross project spec states: | 16:29 |
| amrith | * Stop support of migrations with downgrade functions across all | 16:29 |
| amrith | projects | 16:29 |
| harlowja_at_home | amrith, for that discussion, it would probably be better on the ML, i don't necessarily disagree, but undoing http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-specs/specs/no-downward-sql-migration.html is another can of worms :) | 16:29 |
| amrith | I read that as a TC mandate that projects should not support downgrade | 16:29 |
| rpodolyaka | :) | 16:30 |
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| amrith | and since the listed alternative (which is dismissed) is that "Downgrade paths can continue to be supported." | 16:30 |
| harlowja_at_home | i'm not saying it can't be undone, its just ummm, a much bigger thing that i'm pretty sure oslo can't resolve :) | 16:30 |
| amrith | I interpret it to mean that downgrades SHALL NOT be supported. | 16:30 |
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| dhellmann | amrith : ok, I didn't read it as such a strongly worded thing. Regardless, I don't think we need oslo.db to enforce that. | 16:31 |
| amrith | OK, thanks | 16:31 |
| amrith | so it is up to the projects to do it. thanks! | 16:31 |
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| amrith | will let the guy submitting the code go ahead in that case, and not hold it up expecting an oslo.db solution. that's the (actually, a) resolution I was looking for | 16:31 |
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| harlowja_at_home | amrith, i think so (and if u feel that the spec should be undone, def start that discussion, software isn't frozen in time) | 16:31 |
| bknudson | since we're going to try supporting rolling upgrades in keystone maybe we can do downgrades in a limited way | 16:32 |
| bknudson | as in, you can downgrade as long as you haven't started any new keystones | 16:32 |
| amrith | harlowja_at_home, bknudson ... I cannot credibly speak as the voice of deployers since I'm not one, and don't play one on TV. I'm sure they have a voice and if and when they feel this is important they will raise it. | 16:32 |
| harlowja_at_home | it will always be a tradeoff imho, downgrades, upgrades, correctness of either, where will people spend the time to ensure it works... | 16:32 |
| harlowja_at_home | well what do u play on TV? | 16:33 |
| bknudson | mfisch is an operator and is a co-author of the no-downgrades spec | 16:33 |
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| amrith | I got an answer, I'm fine with moving on. On TV I play politician (also in real life). | 16:33 |
| amrith | true: am elected | 16:33 |
| harlowja_at_home | donald is that u | 16:33 |
| * amrith searches for hair piece. | 16:34 | |
| harlowja_at_home | ha | 16:34 |
| amrith | fyi: donald is not elected. | 16:34 |
| amrith | so no. | 16:34 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:34 |
| harlowja_at_home | ok, moving on | 16:34 |
| amrith | thanks! | 16:34 |
| harlowja_at_home | np | 16:34 |
| harlowja_at_home | #topic Open oslo-specs | 16:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open oslo-specs (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:34 | |
| harlowja_at_home | sooo just wanted to bring any needed attention to any oslo specs if needed | 16:35 |
| harlowja_at_home | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/oslo-specs,n,z | 16:35 |
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| harlowja_at_home | more eyes/views on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/247902/ i think would be good | 16:35 |
| harlowja_at_home | 'Replace incubator with unstable libraries.' | 16:35 |
| harlowja_at_home | also I think https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226157/ is nice for oslo folks to look at | 16:36 |
| harlowja_at_home | in general its the larger openstack spec for backwards compat by lifeless | 16:36 |
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| harlowja_at_home | and i think the creator(s) wanted to ensure oslo folks read over it espeically | 16:36 |
| harlowja_at_home | 'Backwards compat for libraries and clients.' | 16:37 |
| harlowja_at_home | so if people get some time, please checks those out (if u haven't already) | 16:37 |
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| harlowja_at_home | Any other specs people want to raise besides those? | 16:38 |
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| harlowja_at_home | ok, assuming not then :-P | 16:39 |
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| harlowja_at_home | #topic Open discussion | 16:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:39 | |
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| harlowja_at_home | anything else from folks that they want to bring up? | 16:39 |
| harlowja_at_home | (if not that's ok to) | 16:40 |
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| harlowja_at_home | if people are interested in any etcd or consul stuff feel free to review some of this showing up @ https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/tooz,n,z | 16:40 |
| * rbradfor hears crickets in the background | 16:40 | |
| harlowja_at_home | u may want to get your place checked for bugs | 16:41 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:41 |
| harlowja_at_home | ok, going one | 16:41 |
| gcb | Is there any plan to clean up bugs ? | 16:41 |
| harlowja_at_home | sure | 16:42 |
| gcb | some bugs were fixed , but still in progress status | 16:42 |
| harlowja_at_home | actually i'm not sure, whats the thoughts there? | 16:42 |
| harlowja_at_home | seems like a good idea to clean up bugs | 16:42 |
| gcb | I try to triage bug and close some | 16:42 |
| harlowja_at_home | gcb, where u just thinking of closing some, changing progress and all? | 16:43 |
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| harlowja_at_home | i'd be ok with that, maybe let's find dims after this and see what he thinks | 16:43 |
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| dhellmann | gcb : http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-December/081612.html | 16:44 |
| harlowja_at_home | gcb, where u thinking of more cleanup than in ^ ? | 16:45 |
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| gcb | I just did some clean up in oslo.policy | 16:45 |
| gcb | and found some bugs were fixed in code , but still in confirmed and other "open" status | 16:46 |
| harlowja_at_home | ya, that seems like general cleanup then | 16:46 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, that's the sort of thing we need to do by hand. thanks for starting that, gcb | 16:46 |
| harlowja_at_home | maybe during one of our doc sprints, we should also do a doc/bug sprint | 16:46 |
| harlowja_at_home | doc/bug cleanup sprint | 16:46 |
| harlowja_at_home | or just do it as u find them | 16:47 |
| gcb | yes , maybe I set up a etherpad to record the to-do list | 16:47 |
| dhellmann | harlowja_at_home : ++ | 16:47 |
| harlowja_at_home | gcb, that'd be great | 16:47 |
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| harlowja_at_home | #action gcb harlowja talk with dims about doc/bug cleanup sprint day (maybe before next year?) | 16:49 |
| harlowja_at_home | seems like we could get one of those in before next year | 16:49 |
| harlowja_at_home | *maybe* | 16:49 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:49 |
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| harlowja_at_home | worth a try, but unsure, never know with peoples vacations | 16:49 |
| gcb | I didn't have vactions this month :-) | 16:50 |
| gcb | I don't | 16:50 |
| harlowja_at_home | :) | 16:50 |
| harlowja_at_home | okie dokie, i guess for anything else we can move back into #openstack-oslo | 16:51 |
| harlowja_at_home | going once | 16:51 |
| harlowja_at_home | going twice | 16:52 |
| harlowja_at_home | sold | 16:52 |
| harlowja_at_home | #end-meeting | 16:52 |
| harlowja_at_home | #endmeeting | 16:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_dvr)" | 16:52 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Dec 7 16:52:24 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-12-07-16.00.html | 16:52 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-12-07-16.00.txt | 16:52 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2015/oslo.2015-12-07-16.00.log.html | 16:52 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks. | 16:52 |
| harlowja_at_home | np : | 16:52 |
| harlowja_at_home | :) | 16:52 |
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| catherineD | #startmeeting refstack | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Dec 7 19:00:10 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is catherineD. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'refstack' | 19:00 |
| markvoelker | o/ | 19:00 |
| dwalleck | o/ | 19:00 |
| rockyg | o/ | 19:00 |
| pvaneck | o/ | 19:00 |
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| catherineD | hello everyone | 19:01 |
| catherineD | #link meeting agenda and notes, please feel free to add items https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-meeting-15-12-07 | 19:01 |
| davidlenwell | hi | 19:02 |
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| catherineD | #topic Review mapping ( https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-refstack-ation-items ) of "RefStack Enhancement" document ( https://goo.gl/hDC6U3 ) to RefStack Mitaka priority ( https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-tokyo-summit ) | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review mapping ( https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-refstack-ation-items ) of "RefStack Enhancement" document ( https://goo.gl/hDC6U3 ) to RefStack Mitaka priority ( https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-tokyo-summit ) (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:03 | |
| sslypushenko__ | o/ | 19:03 |
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| catherineD | sslypushenko__: agenda https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-meeting-15-12-07 | 19:04 |
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| sslypushenko__ | thx! | 19:04 |
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| catherineD | so Alex Levin send us a document describing the enhancements for Refstack | 19:05 |
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| catherineD | #link RefStack enhancement doc from Alex Levin https://goo.gl/hDC6U3 | 19:06 |
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| sslypushenko__ | Really good doc! | 19:06 |
| dwalleck | Very detailed :-) There's a lot of good ideas here | 19:06 |
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| sslypushenko__ | It is some what was missing | 19:06 |
| catherineD | basically there are 5 majoir areas: 1 Register cloud, 2 Run test, 3 Run external test suitesm, 4 Show cloud achievement, 5 Simplify test preparation | 19:07 |
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| catherineD | +2 agree with everyone that it is a very good doc ... so the refstack team will seriously looking to implement those that is applicable ... | 19:08 |
| sslypushenko__ | It looks like a lot of work | 19:09 |
| hogepodge | o/ | 19:09 |
| davidlenwell | it looks very close to the original vision of refstack | 19:09 |
| rockyg | Sounds like time for a multi-cycle road map! | 19:09 |
| sslypushenko__ | rockyg +1 | 19:10 |
| catherineD | yes it is a lot of work but we can prioritize at the minimum to implement the building blocks first ... | 19:10 |
| sslypushenko__ | We need aplan) | 19:10 |
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| rockyg | ++ | 19:10 |
| davidlenwell | sounds like we should sit down and compare it against the existing use cases and then reprioritize everything and make a plan | 19:10 |
| catherineD | yes ... we need a plan ... so I did a quick mapping documented in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-refstack-ation-items | 19:10 |
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| catherineD | #link quick mapping of Alex's doc to Mitak priority https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-refstack-ation-items | 19:11 |
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| catherineD | the three areas that I think we could prioritize to implement for Mitaka is 1) register cloud .. this map very well to what we want to do any way for vendor registration | 19:13 |
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| catherineD | next is Item #3 in Alex's doc Run external test suite ---> RefStack wants to implement this for this cycle too | 19:14 |
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| pvaneck | I think we can go ahead with the vendor/product stuff and start implementing that. Already have a lot of details regarding that from the summit | 19:15 |
| catherineD | and #4 Show cloud achievement --> If RefStack will allow testing of external test suite we need a way to render data .... t | 19:15 |
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| alevine | o/ | 19:16 |
| catherineD | pvaneck: +1 ... we could go ahead with that .. | 19:16 |
| catherineD | alevine: hi ... agenda link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-meeting-15-12-07 | 19:16 |
| alevine | sorry I'm late. I got the beginning of the meeting. I wanted to remind that a large part of the mentioned functionality is already implemented. At least as a working prototype | 19:17 |
| catherineD | alevine: please take a look at the mapping in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-refstack-ation-items | 19:17 |
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| alevine | CatherineD: I did see it beforehand. Thank you. | 19:18 |
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| catherineD | alevine: yup ... I have seen your prototype site | 19:19 |
| alevine | We're more than happy to implement and contribute what's stated in the doc if you give us green light. | 19:19 |
| alevine | It'd really save us time and effort if you won't make us to create all of the specs and let us refine the doc according to any comments that can arise, and then implement the thing. | 19:20 |
| catherineD | #link Alex's team prototype http://refstack.cloudscaling.com:8000/#/ | 19:20 |
| alevine | Everybody: Sorry, you need to use the fake sign-in at the right to get access to all functionality. | 19:21 |
| sslypushenko__ | alevine Sounds reasonable | 19:21 |
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| catherineD | alevine: the 3 building block areas that we would like to see implemented first is 1) Register cloud 2) external text 3) show cloud achievement | 19:22 |
| catherineD | alevine: How about if I write the specs for the three areas mentioned above ...? | 19:23 |
| alevine | catherineD: Absolutely. How about running tests from the panel though? | 19:23 |
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| catherineD | alevine: we can discuss running test in the next few meetings ... | 19:23 |
| alevine | catherineD: Whatever you say. I can also help with righting the specs if you think it's required. | 19:24 |
| catherineD | as davidlenwell: indicated earlier this is our original design ... | 19:24 |
| catherineD | we have encountered a few challenging areas that I would like the team to discuss further ... | 19:24 |
| sslypushenko__ | catherineD It looks like we just need to convert google document into rst spec | 19:25 |
| alevine | catherineD: The problem is - it's much easier to test all of the other features you mentioned when you can do everything from the panel. :) So I guess we can at least have it in some draft, experimental form just to use. | 19:25 |
| catherineD | alevine: I think we should have the spec .. | 19:25 |
| dwalleck | I think having a working prototype makes writing the specs easier. I think the spec process will help make sure we flesh out the features appropriately | 19:25 |
| alevine | "writing the specs", sorry :) | 19:25 |
| catherineD | alevine: I think a prototype would be very helpful ... | 19:26 |
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| alevine | dwalleck: agree. I suggest we bring the prototype up to speed with the design if the design is approved overall. And then it'll be very easy to reflect it in the specs. | 19:26 |
| catherineD | if we agree that we will implement the building block as our first phase ... I would like to review our data model next .. | 19:27 |
| alevine | catherineD: Ok. Sounds great. We can enhance the data model described in your doc with additional data required for new functionality. | 19:28 |
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| catherineD | alevine: thx ... | 19:28 |
| catherineD | #topic Review and agree on data models | 19:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review and agree on data models (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:29 | |
| dwalleck | alevine: I totally agree. To add to what catherineD said, I think we just want to make sure we're adding expandable bases | 19:29 |
| catherineD | #link data model https://goo.gl/zWYnoq | 19:29 |
| catherineD | could everyone look at slide# 7 | 19:29 |
| catherineD | slide# 6 was what we discussed before ... | 19:30 |
| catherineD | after review alevine: 's doc I feel like we need a "product" entiry ... | 19:30 |
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| dwalleck | Right now Tempest tests aren't directly tied to a product. Where would that data come from? | 19:32 |
| catherineD | onm slide#7 the new tables are role, group, product, vendor and grp_suer_role_relationship (used for many to many mapping of role, user, group) | 19:32 |
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| catherineD | dwalleck: good question .. | 19:33 |
| catherineD | everyone please go to slide#2 | 19:33 |
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| catherineD | so product can be created (register) by vendor (item 2 ) or any user (item 3) | 19:34 |
| alevine | dwalleck: We suggest that Tempest tests are tied to Schemas, while test configurations are tied to clouds/products. | 19:34 |
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| dwalleck | Ahh, product as in a product within a vendor, not within OpenStack. I see now | 19:34 |
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| catherineD | dwalleck: yup | 19:34 |
| catherineD | any inputs for slide#2 and slide#7? | 19:35 |
| alevine | catherineD: We'll need more users and roles later | 19:35 |
| sslypushenko__ | LGTM | 19:35 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko__: pvaneck: I think you suggested earlier that the product info can be saved in meta table .... | 19:36 |
| catherineD | but with alevine: concept if cloud testing ... I think that maps well with product having its own table | 19:37 |
| alevine | catherineD: Sorry, I see you covered all roles, except Guest. | 19:37 |
| sslypushenko__ | Now product gets more sense | 19:37 |
| pvaneck | that was before we had a product table | 19:37 |
| sslypushenko__ | Any way it requires time to think | 19:37 |
| catherineD | alevine: we can add add Guest to our table ... | 19:37 |
| sslypushenko__ | I will put comments in doc if I come up with something | 19:37 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko__: absolutely ... that is why I would like to have us think about all of this before implementation ... | 19:38 |
| catherineD | sslypushenko__: please do ... | 19:38 |
| catherineD | I think having a good data model will help a lot .... | 19:38 |
| sslypushenko__ | for sure | 19:39 |
| sslypushenko__ | Any way it is a good start | 19:39 |
| catherineD | How about we let everyone take sometime to review the data model until next week ... then we start to implement data model and its aspect like API for model CRUD | 19:40 |
| catherineD | #action all RefStack team members to review data model described in https://goo.gl/zWYnoq | 19:41 |
| alevine | catherineD: wouldn't you want to have schemas objects in data model later as well? | 19:41 |
| catherineD | alevine: that is what I want to discuss next about schemas | 19:42 |
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| catherineD | alevine: are you refering to schema for data rendering? | 19:42 |
| catherineD | or data base schema? | 19:42 |
| alevine | catherineD: For describing external test suites and Target Programs. | 19:42 |
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| alevine | catherineD: I'm sorry I'm not aware of any other schemas - I'm using the term from my doc. | 19:43 |
| catherineD | alevine: yup ... currently we usde DefCore schena .. | 19:43 |
| alevine | catherineD: Of course :) | 19:43 |
| hogepodge | catherineD: guideline is probably better terminology | 19:44 |
| hogepodge | the guideline has an ad-hoc schema (we haven't actually formally defined it) | 19:44 |
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| catherineD | alevine: I think we were talking about the ad-hoc schema right? schema is what we use to render the content of the Guideline ... | 19:45 |
| alevine | catherineD: hogepodge: I was trying to use a parallel term from www.w3c.org - like XSD schemas for XML. So here we can define our schemas. | 19:45 |
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| sslypushenko__ | alevine schemas will be stored in DB anyway, so model should meet this fact | 19:45 |
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| alevine | ssplypushenko__: No problem. Though we might consider having external schemas in outside URLs like XSD and WSDL schemas reside. | 19:47 |
| catherineD | alevine: sslypushenko__: hogepodge: I think each of us may talk about different things here... I suggest that we discuss this in refstack IRC after this meeting .... | 19:47 |
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| catherineD | I do want to discuss externl testing next now that we have DefCore member here ... | 19:47 |
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| sslypushenko__ | IMO, we should try to make data model as abstract as possible and get rid of details. It will give us a required level of flexibility | 19:48 |
| catherineD | to sumarize, everyone will review the data model ... next week we will log our agreement and then proceed to implementation | 19:48 |
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| catherineD | sslypushenko__: +1 | 19:49 |
| sslypushenko__ | alevine: Is it possible to look on code of our team prototype? | 19:49 |
| catherineD | so everyone please voice your opion on the update needed on the data model via IRC, email, or update the doc ... | 19:50 |
| alevine | sslypushenko__: Absolutely. Could you send me a link, please, just to be sure that's what you want us to look to? | 19:50 |
| sslypushenko__ | http://refstack.cloudscaling.com:8000/ this one | 19:51 |
| alevine | sslypushenko__: I'm sorry I got you wrong. I thought you want my team to look at your prototype :). You want to look at our code? Sure. | 19:51 |
| catherineD | #topic Pending reviews | 19:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pending reviews (Meeting topic: refstack)" | 19:52 | |
| catherineD | #link Another way to use additional tests for tempest https://review.openstack.org/#/c/249160/ | 19:52 |
| alevine | sslypushenko__: Here is the repo: https://github.com/cloudscaling/refstack | 19:52 |
| sslypushenko__ | alevine thx! | 19:53 |
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| catherineD | alevine: both sslypushenko__: and I agree that https://review.openstack.org/#/c/249160/ is a very approached to bring in external tests | 19:53 |
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| sslypushenko__ | catherineD I think it is kind of POC | 19:53 |
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| catherineD | alevine: may question is should we install non-DefCore package like (ec2-api) out of the box ... or should we provide instruction for users to add non-DefCore test packages | 19:54 |
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| catherineD | sslypushenko__: what is a POC? | 19:55 |
| alevine | catherineD: Yes the instruction about how to create tempest plugin and new schema would be very helpful. We have such a thing internally now. | 19:55 |
| sslypushenko__ | catherineD: proof of concept | 19:55 |
| dwalleck | catherineD: I'd vote for installing any other test suites as a separate step. That avoids any install by default bias | 19:55 |
| catherineD | alevine: but the question is should we add ec2-api into the tempest-additional-requirements.txt file? | 19:56 |
| alevine | catherineD: I'd say that tempest-additoinal-requiremens.txt should be empty in RefStack repo. They are "additional". The baseline reqs should be in other .txt files. | 19:57 |
| hogepodge | catherineD: it's not part of the defcore guideline, and never will be | 19:57 |
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| sslypushenko__ | dwalleck It depends on Defcore requirements. There is a plan include some swift tests into Defcore schema | 19:57 |
| catherineD | hogepodge: markvoelker: rockyg: I think that question should be toe DefCore ... should RefStack out-of-the-box installed only DefCore required external packages? | 19:57 |
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| alevine | catherineD: Yes, no ec2-api in RefStack repo. | 19:57 |
| hogepodge | catherineD: but what external tests you want to install is up to the refstack team | 19:58 |
| catherineD | alevine: great ... | 19:58 |
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| alevine | catherineD: defcore tests are all in core tempest, aren't they? | 19:58 |
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| alevine | catherineD: Then they shouldn't be in tempest-additional-requirements.txt either. It's just a placeholder. | 19:58 |
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| dwalleck | sslypushenko__: Agreed. I think anything DefCore requires should be installed by default (including external tests). Anything extra should be supported, but not installed by default | 19:58 |
| hogepodge | alevine: we may allow some tests to be sourced externally, like swift, assuming they adopt the tempest plugin architecture | 19:58 |
| * redrobot pokes head in | 19:59 | |
| catherineD | alevine: I think DefCore is looking at bring in Swift in-tree test ... from refstack point of view ... it is like external but required test | 19:59 |
| hogepodge | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214206/ | 19:59 |
| catherineD | we need to end our meeting soon ... could we continue on #refstack | 19:59 |
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| alevine | hogepodge: I'd say that if we suggestion tempest-addtional-requirements.txt for external usage, we better not mix anything core into it. If we want swift as a plugin - fine. But it shouldn't go there I guess anyways. | 19:59 |
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| alevine | "suggest" | 20:00 |
| catherineD | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_dvr)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Dec 7 20:00:13 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-12-07-19.00.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-12-07-19.00.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-12-07-19.00.log.html | 20:00 |
| redrobot | #startmeeting barbican | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Dec 7 20:00:25 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is redrobot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:00 |
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| redrobot | #topic Roll Call | 20:00 |
| elmiko | o/ | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
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| alee | o/ | 20:00 |
| jkf | o/ | 20:00 |
| arunkant_ | o/ | 20:00 |
| silos | \o/ | 20:00 |
| diazjf | o/ | 20:00 |
| igueths | Ø | 20:00 |
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| rellerreller | o/ | 20:01 |
| jhfeng | o/ | 20:01 |
| redrobot | Awesome, lots of barbicaneers here! | 20:02 |
| kfarr | o/ | 20:02 |
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| redrobot | As usual the agenda can be found here: | 20:02 |
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| redrobot | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican | 20:02 |
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| redrobot | #topic Action Items from last meeting | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action Items from last meeting (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:03 | |
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| redrobot | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-11-30-20.00.html | 20:03 |
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| redrobot | alee any updates on the blog post on testing Cinder volume encryption | 20:03 |
| spotz | o/ is late | 20:04 |
| redrobot | alee bueller? | 20:04 |
| alee | redrobot, yeah -- just a sec . | 20:04 |
| redrobot | alee cool | 20:05 |
| alee | https://vakwetu.wordpress.com/ | 20:05 |
| redrobot | alee awesome! | 20:05 |
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| lisaclark1 | o/ | 20:05 |
| alee | redrobot, may be worthwhile linking it somewhere .. | 20:05 |
| redrobot | alee I was going to ask if you'd had a chance to advertise it on the ML? | 20:05 |
| kfarr | alee very cool! | 20:06 |
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| alee | redrobot, not yet , but thats a good idea | 20:06 |
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| woodster_ | o/ | 20:06 |
| dave-mccowan | o/ | 20:06 |
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| alee | redrobot, I'll shoot off an email later today | 20:06 |
| redrobot | #action alee to advertise barbican+volume encription blog | 20:06 |
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| alee | let me know if anything is incorrect .. | 20:07 |
| redrobot | diazjf any updates on the Barbican context blueprint ? | 20:07 |
| diazjf | redrobot, None yet, I have an internal meeting about that with the swift encryption and security team this week | 20:08 |
| redrobot | diazjf ok, I'll bump it to next week | 20:08 |
| redrobot | #action diazjf to update the Barbican context blueprint | 20:08 |
| diazjf | redrobot, awesome thanks | 20:08 |
| redrobot | lisaclark1 ping? | 20:08 |
| lisaclark1 | pong | 20:08 |
| redrobot | lisaclark1 do you have any links to hotel recommendations and mid-cycle eventbrite link ? | 20:09 |
| lisaclark1 | one sec and i'll pull them up | 20:09 |
| lisaclark1 | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/BarbicanMitakaSprint | 20:09 |
| lisaclark1 | #link https://www.eventbrite.com/e/openstack-barbican-mitaka-midcycle-tickets-19784674494 | 20:09 |
| lisaclark1 | the first link has been updated with hotel recommendations | 20:09 |
| lisaclark1 | the barbican midcycle has also been updated on the sprints wiki | 20:10 |
| lisaclark1 | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints | 20:10 |
| redrobot | lisaclark1 awesome! | 20:10 |
| lisaclark1 | OSSP's midcycle is also up. any interested barbicaneers should also sign up for the OSSP midcycle if there's planned attendance there | 20:10 |
| lisaclark1 | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-mitaka-midcycle | 20:10 |
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| redrobot | lisaclark1 good stuff! | 20:11 |
| redrobot | that's it for action items | 20:11 |
| redrobot | on to the agenda.... | 20:11 |
| redrobot | #topic Mid-Cycle | 20:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mid-Cycle (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:12 | |
| kfarr | redrobot, I think there were a few for you from two meetings ago, but they didn't carry over on our notes | 20:12 |
| redrobot | lisaclark1 pretty much covered everything regarding the mid cycle | 20:12 |
| redrobot | it's just 4 weeks away, so now's the time to make arrangements to come down | 20:13 |
| redrobot | kfarr sorry, it's my first day back to work and I have no idea what's going on. :) | 20:13 |
| redrobot | kfarr but I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything during my vacation... ;) | 20:14 |
| dave-mccowan | the security project also has their mid-cycle that week, also in the castle. so for folks interested in both projects, plan to stay the whole week. | 20:14 |
| redrobot | any other questions/comments about the mid-cycle ? | 20:14 |
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| lisaclark1 | thanks dave-mccowan. also, please be sure to signup on both midcycle signup forms. this will ensure the planners can coordinate appropriately for total attendees | 20:15 |
| dave-mccowan | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-mitaka-midcycle | 20:16 |
| elmiko | we should probably copy lisaclark1's hotel info to the security pad too | 20:16 |
| elmiko | (sorry, wrong meeting for that topic) | 20:16 |
| lisaclark1 | elmiko: i'll do that now | 20:17 |
| elmiko | lisaclark1: thanks! | 20:17 |
| redrobot | awesome, ok, moving on ... | 20:17 |
| redrobot | #topic Mitaka-1 Milestone Release | 20:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mitaka-1 Milestone Release (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:17 | |
| redrobot | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-December/081419.html | 20:17 |
| redrobot | Many thanks to kfarr for taking care of the release | 20:18 |
| redrobot | ... I think it was kfarr anyway ... | 20:18 |
| kfarr | redrobot, yup, sure thing! | 20:18 |
| elmiko | kfarr++ | 20:18 |
| diazjf | +++++ | 20:19 |
| redrobot | kfarr did we have release notes written up for it? I recall there being a new release not process? | 20:19 |
| rellerreller | kfarr woot! woot! | 20:19 |
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| kfarr | redrobot, the requirement for the release was to integrate reno | 20:19 |
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| kfarr | (the release notes manager) | 20:19 |
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| lisaclark1 | are release notes now auto generated? | 20:20 |
| kfarr | I did not write release notes for this release, but for future ones we can now add the notes directly to our repository | 20:20 |
| redrobot | kfarr I see... I'll have to look into that. Do you know if we're still on the hook to maintain the Launchpad release pages? | 20:20 |
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| kfarr | redrobot, the launchpad release notes pages are now auto-generated from the release notes we add to our repo | 20:21 |
| kfarr | Oh, no, I meant the wiki release notes page is auto-generated from our repo | 20:21 |
| redrobot | kfarr interesting... the launchpad page seems like it needs some tlc. I'll look into cleaning it up. | 20:21 |
| redrobot | #action redrobot to clean up Launchpad mitaka-1 page | 20:21 |
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| redrobot | That's all that I had on my mental agenda... and there doesn't seem to be anything else on the wiki agenda | 20:22 |
| redrobot | #topic Open Discussion | 20:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:22 | |
| diazjf | redrobot, Barbican Federation?? | 20:22 |
| redrobot | Also, many thanks to rellerreller for steering the boat while I was gone. | 20:22 |
| rellerreller | redrobot np | 20:23 |
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| redrobot | diazjf sure | 20:23 |
| redrobot | #topic Federation | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Federation (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:23 | |
| redrobot | diazjf any updates here? | 20:23 |
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| diazjf | No updates on our part, just wanted to see if anyone had gone over the usecases. I think most of the discussion will happen during the mid-cycle though. | 20:24 |
| redrobot | diazjf I sent the link to the use cases to Joe Savak before I took off for Spain... just got back in today and haven't had a chance to catch up with him yet. | 20:25 |
| diazjf | redrobot, no worries, whenever you get a chance. :) | 20:26 |
| redrobot | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Barbican/Discussion-Federated-Barbican | 20:27 |
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| redrobot | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-federation-use-cases | 20:30 |
| redrobot | had to dig out that second link | 20:30 |
| redrobot | anything else on Federation or any other topic? | 20:31 |
| redrobot | I still have some catching up to do on my email and ML and such .... | 20:31 |
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| diazjf | just that thanks redrobot | 20:31 |
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| redrobot | going once ... | 20:33 |
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| redrobot | last chance ... | 20:33 |
| diazjf | sold | 20:33 |
| redrobot | ok, we all get 25 min back! | 20:33 |
| redrobot | thanks for coming! | 20:33 |
| redrobot | #endmeeting | 20:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_dvr)" | 20:34 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Dec 7 20:33:59 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-12-07-20.00.html | 20:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-12-07-20.00.txt | 20:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-12-07-20.00.log.html | 20:34 |
| elmiko | thanks redrobot, congrats too ;) | 20:34 |
| redrobot | elmiko thanks! :D | 20:34 |
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| * igueths waves to all | 20:34 | |
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| barrett | #startmeeting Product Working Group | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Dec 7 21:00:39 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is barrett. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Product Working Group)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'product_working_group' | 21:00 |
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| barrett | Hi Folks - Who is here for the Product WG team meeting? | 21:00 |
| pchadwick | I'm hre | 21:01 |
| pchadwick | here | 21:01 |
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| pchadwick | Hi Carol | 21:01 |
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| leong | o/ | 21:01 |
| kencjohnston | o/ | 21:01 |
| barrett | HI Pete | 21:01 |
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| scohen1 | o/ | 21:01 |
| cloudrancher | o/ | 21:01 |
| dpk_ | o/ | 21:02 |
| sgordon | o/ | 21:02 |
| MeganR | o/ | 21:02 |
| barrett | great | 21:03 |
| barrett | #topic Agenda | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: Product Working Group)" | 21:03 | |
| barrett | #link: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/product-team#December_7.2C_2015_Product_Team_Meeting_Agenda | 21:03 |
| barrett | You can find the agenda for today at the link | 21:03 |
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| barrett | #topic User Story Updates | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "User Story Updates (Meeting topic: Product Working Group)" | 21:03 | |
| barrett | Leong & Kenny - Can you lead off with an update on Rolling Upgrades? | 21:04 |
| kencjohnston | Sure | 21:04 |
| barrett | Thanks | 21:04 |
| kencjohnston | Frankly not much movement since last week. I've been compiling updates to the User Story in the form of a gaps analysis | 21:04 |
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| kencjohnston | which has been happening offline | 21:04 |
| kencjohnston | I need to contribute those ammendments | 21:04 |
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| barrett | Do you have a target date for the completion of the gaps analysis? | 21:05 |
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| kencjohnston | but work is being planned, across versioned object support, schema migration, and live migrate | 21:05 |
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| kencjohnston | I'd like to make the ammendments to teh user story on Wednesday. | 21:05 |
| leong | based on the current product wg workflow, i wondering if we should move this rolling upgrade user stories to "tracked" | 21:05 |
| leong | #link: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ProductTeam/User_Stories#User_Story_Workflow | 21:05 |
| rockyg_ | o/ | 21:05 |
| kencjohnston | leong I would think we need the gaps analysis first to target what we are tracking | 21:05 |
| barrett | Hi Rockyg | 21:05 |
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| kencjohnston | But I agree that we should be able to do that this week | 21:06 |
| barrett | Leong - Great point. | 21:06 |
| leong | Gap Analysis is in phase "track" | 21:06 |
| kencjohnston | I've broken down what is in flight for the Mitaka release | 21:06 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | no phone bridge today? | 21:06 |
| kencjohnston | oh, sorry, I didn't read the link :) | 21:06 |
| kencjohnston | then yes we should promote it to tracked | 21:06 |
| kencjohnston | leong I can do that when I commit the gaps analysis changes | 21:06 |
| barrett | arkady_kanevsky: nope, we're going IRC only for our team meetings starting today | 21:06 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | ok | 21:07 |
| barrett | kencjohnston: +1 | 21:07 |
| kencjohnston | or we can do it today. It is definitely resourced. | 21:07 |
| Shamail | (hi all, sorry for being late) | 21:07 |
| leong | for Proposed stage, the next criteria to move into "tracked" is commit resource | 21:07 |
| barrett | Hi Shamail | 21:07 |
| leong | hi shamail | 21:07 |
| kencjohnston | barrett OK, if there isn't any other thoughts I'll plan on doing that. | 21:07 |
| leong | we are proposing moving "rolling upgrade" into "tracked" | 21:07 |
| kencjohnston | Can I register an action for myself? | 21:07 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | so need to be done to move it to tracked? just move from one diretcory to another? | 21:07 |
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| sgordon | i believe a chair needs to record actions (or chair someone to do it) | 21:08 |
| barrett | kencjohnston: No, but I will do it for you :) | 21:08 |
| kencjohnston | Arkady_Kanevsky correct | 21:08 |
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| barrett | #action Kencjohnston move Rolling Upgrades to Tracked folder | 21:08 |
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| kencjohnston | actually, for review purposes I'll split them up. | 21:08 |
| kencjohnston | I'll first move it to tracked, since the gaps anayslsis isn't required and we can all review that commit | 21:08 |
| Shamail | kencjohnston: +1 | 21:09 |
| kencjohnston | then I'll add the gaps analysis so we can comment on that one separately | 21:09 |
| kencjohnston | I'll do the tracked thing tonight. | 21:09 |
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| Shamail | I'll go ahead and create a fracker template in the repo too... That way we can at least populate the necessary information even if the final place is tbd | 21:09 |
| barrett | kencjohnston: Sounds good. Will the gaps analysis be in a Google doc or are you going to create something that can be posted to repo? | 21:09 |
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| Shamail | Tracker* | 21:09 |
| barrett | shamail: +1 | 21:09 |
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| kencjohnston | Shamail oh, great, I was going to do it via text in the user story | 21:10 |
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| Shamail | Can you please assign that action to barrett? | 21:10 |
| kencjohnston | Shamail process wise? DO I upload a version of the template into the tracked folder? | 21:10 |
| leong | can the gap analysis be created in repo? | 21:10 |
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| barrett | #action Shamail to create a Tracker template and post to repo | 21:10 |
| Shamail | It's actually supposed to live outside since the user story can change and others could fall under the same tracker eventually | 21:10 |
| Shamail | Yes Leong, makes sense | 21:11 |
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| Shamail | My first reply was to tracker, not gap analysis | 21:11 |
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| barrett | Shamail - I'm confused. Are you going to post a tracker template to the Repo? | 21:11 |
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| Shamail | Yes barrett... It will have fields like blueprints, specs, market segments, team, etc | 21:12 |
| barrett | Great. | 21:13 |
| barrett | Anything else on Rolling Upgrades? | 21:13 |
| kencjohnston | barrett Shamail I'll get with shamail on the process offline | 21:13 |
| kencjohnston | nothing else for me | 21:13 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | do we have a user story for update not upgrade? | 21:13 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | that is minor version not major version change? | 21:13 |
| annilai | good question | 21:14 |
| pchadwick | what is the definition of a minor version? | 21:14 |
| kencjohnston | Arkady_Kanevsky I think they have all been rolled in together | 21:14 |
| leong | u mean like "patches"? | 21:14 |
| barrett | Arkady_kanevsky: What is the difference? | 21:14 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | think of liberty.0 vs. liberty.1 | 21:14 |
| kencjohnston | The user story includes "Immediate Upgrade" to capture CVEs and other security patches | 21:15 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | some bug fixes do fix schema or ohter things that impact updgrade | 21:15 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | but the only version tested for upgrade is GA release | 21:15 |
| barrett | sounds like the intention is to cover them. | 21:15 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | agree on intension. | 21:15 |
| barrett | Arkady_Kanevsky: Can you review the user story and add comments where you think there are gaps? | 21:15 |
| rockyg_ | ++ | 21:16 |
| sgordon | mmm, bug fixes from where? | 21:16 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | give me that AI. | 21:16 |
| rockyg_ | stable branch | 21:16 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I was justing if that is udner upgrade story or we want seperate story for update scenarios. | 21:16 |
| sgordon | anything that requires a schema upgrade is more likely part of the "major version" upgrade | 21:16 |
| leong | that might be cover under Usage Scenario section | 21:16 |
| sgordon | yeah but stable branch doesnt allow that | 21:16 |
| sgordon | kind of my point | 21:16 |
| barrett | #action Arkday Kanevsky: Review the Rolling Upgrade User story and add comments describing any gaps for updates | 21:17 |
| leong | #link: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-user-stories/user-stories/proposed/rollingupgrades.html | 21:17 |
| Shamail | sgordon: +1 and barrett: +1 to comments on user story | 21:17 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | thank you | 21:17 |
| barrett | Let's move on.... | 21:17 |
| barrett | Jay/Deric can you give an update on Onboarding Hosts? | 21:17 |
| cloudrancher | sure | 21:18 |
| barrett | Thanks | 21:18 |
| cloudrancher | We added new members from Platform9 as outcome from Tokyo | 21:18 |
| cloudrancher | So we have been taking turns explaining each teams approach to onboarding: Platform9 and IBM PowerVC team | 21:18 |
| cloudrancher | Each team approaches has gaps and advantages | 21:18 |
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| cloudrancher | Presentations in Onboarding Google Drive https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0B0gXxpcL9MhGMy1tOU5ZbEFjRVU | 21:18 |
| cloudrancher | we decided to split the blueprint drafts into three parts. Cinder changes, Neutron changes and a new project that will interact with Nova | 21:19 |
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| cloudrancher | that was just done last week. Unfortunately we have been slow due to RealJob(TM) workloads | 21:19 |
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| barrett | :) | 21:20 |
| cloudrancher | so we have the new drafts in the google drive | 21:20 |
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| cloudrancher | and will be discussing this Friday. We are still using voice bridge for now, but will be adding IRC | 21:20 |
| kencjohnston | cloudrancher - what is driving separating the overall story? | 21:20 |
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| cloudrancher | if anybody could sent a scheduling IRC meetings dummies guide that would be good | 21:21 |
| leong | is the "onboarding resource" user stories ready to move into "proposed"? | 21:21 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | for new platforms is there a requirement for Ironic? | 21:21 |
| cloudrancher | so, overall, taking lots of time and the new project is going to be a real challenge | 21:21 |
| Shamail | I thought blueprints were being split, not user story? | 21:21 |
| cloudrancher | no Ironic at this time | 21:21 |
| kencjohnston | Shamail Ahh, I see, sorry I can't read. Makes sense | 21:22 |
| cloudrancher | keeping it simple but Nova was pretty clear we need to be in a new project | 21:22 |
| cloudrancher | and nobody on the team has done that yet | 21:22 |
| cloudrancher | but overall we are makign progress | 21:22 |
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| barrett | cloudrancher: what's your timeframe for moving from Draft to Proposed? | 21:23 |
| cloudrancher | thats about it. We will probaly have last meeting this week due to holidays, then restart in Jan. | 21:23 |
| cloudrancher | I think we need to spend more time on the blueprints first | 21:23 |
| cloudrancher | so Jan it probably the best | 21:23 |
| cloudrancher | in reality it is unlikly we will get anything into Mitaka other than PTL awareness | 21:24 |
| barrett | Blueprints aren't required for this per our work flow | 21:24 |
| leong | sorry... pls correct me if i'm wrong.. based on the "workflow", the "blueprint" is address in "Tracked | 21:24 |
| cloudrancher | yes, but I think we need to get a better idea of what we are trying to do | 21:24 |
| cloudrancher | the Platform9 team had a much broader scope with VMWare | 21:25 |
| cloudrancher | and the IBM team had more SAN and Neutron than Platform9 | 21:25 |
| cloudrancher | so - things are moving around a bit | 21:25 |
| Shamail | leong: correct... I agree with Barrett about possibly considering a move to proposed... You can still refine items... | 21:25 |
| barrett | Moving from Draft to proposed requires a good user story write-up that describes the requirements, etc. | 21:25 |
| barrett | Not the solution | 21:25 |
| Shamail | Barrett: +1 | 21:25 |
| leong | i think at this stage ("draft"), the team should focus on the "stories" or "problem statements" but not so much on "blueprint". | 21:25 |
| barrett | See the work flow here: | 21:25 |
| barrett | #link: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ProductTeam/User_Stories#User_Story_Workflow | 21:25 |
| cloudrancher | right. I'd like to give it a few more weeks because the requirements may change | 21:25 |
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| cloudrancher | The intial user story was a one way trip to OpenStack from KVM/other but the Platform9 approach was two way | 21:26 |
| cloudrancher | so, there was lots of value in that and it's not reflected in the User Story right now | 21:26 |
| leong | if the team thinks that the existing "stories/problem statements" is sufficient, then it can be considered moving into "proposed" or even "tracked" | 21:26 |
| pchadwick | Isn't that "outboarding"? | 21:27 |
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| pchadwick | If we want to do it bi-directionally, then it should be called migration or something. | 21:27 |
| pchadwick | FWIW, most of the customers I talk to view it as one-way. | 21:27 |
| cloudrancher | it's interesting because the two way capabiloity allows for leveraging both management interfacs | 21:27 |
| Shamail | pchadwick: +1 | 21:27 |
| cloudrancher | we may end up there | 21:27 |
| Shamail | I wouldn't want that part delaying the rest of it... | 21:28 |
| pchadwick | shamail: +1 | 21:28 |
| barrett | pchadwick: this is about onboarding infrastructure for the purpose of tracking...not onboarding legacy apps | 21:28 |
| pchadwick | right - and once the infrastructure is there, why would anyone move it back? | 21:28 |
| cloudrancher | I won't think it will, but adding abotu 30% more team is taking some time to integrate views | 21:28 |
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| barrett | cloudrancher: pls look over the work flow. If you really need more time to capture the requirements fine. I'd like to see us follow the work flow as much as we can, as we execute through it theses first couple of times to test it out and be ready to refine it at our midcyle in Feb | 21:28 |
| leong | the current "onboarding infrastructure resources" are leaning towards a "two-way" capabilities rather than just "one-way" migration. | 21:29 |
| cloudrancher | ok. I'll work on | 21:29 |
| cloudrancher | it a bit | 21:29 |
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| cloudrancher | I'm just saying we need a bit more time to digest | 21:29 |
| barrett | OK - Any other comments/questions on this one? | 21:29 |
| cloudrancher | nope. thats it for now | 21:29 |
| barrett | Thanks | 21:29 |
| barrett | Next up is Onboarding Legacy Apps - Gerd are you here? | 21:30 |
| barrett | I think that team is still in the forming stage. I will connect with Gerd offline and ask him to send an update on the ML. | 21:30 |
| leong | Gerd has drafted a Google Doc here to kick start the process. | 21:31 |
| leong | #link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=122EzpeD2d-ZzpGyoruoOANCNvQv-ms70og6neQCMpsk | 21:31 |
| barrett | Thanks LEong | 21:31 |
| barrett | Next up is Complex Instance Placement - Steve can you give an update? | 21:31 |
| Shamail | Ping ago rdon | 21:31 |
| Shamail | Ping sgordon | 21:32 |
| sgordon | mmmyes | 21:32 |
| barrett | Thanks | 21:32 |
| sgordon | although i briefly lost my link, second | 21:32 |
| sgordon | so the open review for updates is | 21:33 |
| sgordon | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/251442/ | 21:33 |
| sgordon | i haven't had a chance to integrate the feedback as yet | 21:33 |
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| kencjohn_ | ok, I think barrett is ready to approve once you and Callum get to a consensus point | 21:33 |
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| barrett | kencjohn: +1 It seemed like there was some discussion going on with Arkday | 21:34 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I +1 it already and I am original owner | 21:35 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | but I do not have +2 priviliges | 21:35 |
| kencjohn_ | Arkady_Kanevsky Actually you -1'd | 21:35 |
| barrett | Are all of the questions resolved sgordon? | 21:35 |
| sgordon | ??? | 21:35 |
| sgordon | yeah and you arent the original owner | 21:35 |
| sgordon | lol | 21:36 |
| Shamail | Arkady_Kanevsky: I believe you are referring to lifecycle management, not CIm | 21:36 |
| sgordon | it's all from calum | 21:36 |
| Shamail | CIM* | 21:36 |
| sgordon | with minor edits | 21:36 |
| Shamail | Please let us know once you and Calum close the loop. | 21:37 |
| sgordon | will do | 21:37 |
| barrett | shamail +1 | 21:37 |
| barrett | OK - Any other User Stories to be discussed? | 21:37 |
| kencjohn_ | one quick note on the ROlling upgrades | 21:37 |
| kencjohn_ | #link ttps://review.openstack.org/254389 | 21:37 |
| kencjohn_ | is a review to promote to Tracked | 21:37 |
| leong | one more user story: db_hygience | 21:38 |
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| leong | i think db_hygience is ready to merged into "draft", now pending "core reviewer" approval. | 21:38 |
| barrett | kencyjohn: +1 | 21:38 |
| kencjohn_ | ack bad link | 21:38 |
| leong | #link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/237178/ | 21:38 |
| Shamail | Thanks kencjohn_ and me ong | 21:38 |
| Shamail | leong* | 21:38 |
| kencjohn_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/254389/ | 21:38 |
| Shamail | My mobile IRC client is bad. | 21:39 |
| barrett | Thanks Leong - will check the user story and make comments. | 21:39 |
| barrett | Anything else? | 21:39 |
| barrett | #topic Mid Cycle Planning | 21:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mid Cycle Planning (Meeting topic: Product Working Group)" | 21:40 | |
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| barrett | As far as I can tell Ops is set on 2/15 & 16 in Manchester | 21:40 |
| barrett | Rackspace has offered to host our Midcycle at their London offices right after that | 21:41 |
| leong | are we going to meet in Manchester or London? or both? | 21:41 |
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| Shamail | I had an action to confirm whether Manchester is the "official" ops summit. I sent an email on the ops list but did not hear back... I think based on what I've seen... Manchester is the main one this time | 21:41 |
| Shamail | Although others might happen in North America, Asia still | 21:41 |
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| kencjohn_ | leong I thinkt he idea is yes, Ops meetup in Manchester, three hour train to London and then PWG Mid-Cycle | 21:41 |
| Shamail | leong: we would need to do both if we are co-locating | 21:41 |
| barrett | Shamail: I think Manchester is the offical one and satelite ops meetups might happen | 21:42 |
| leong | i see...need to add that into travel plan for approval.. :-) | 21:42 |
| barrett | kencjohn: That is the proposal | 21:42 |
| Shamail | Yep. That's the likely scenario | 21:42 |
| barrett | Who would not be able to make a meet-up in London in Feb? | 21:42 |
| rockyg_ | Do we have better dates on that? | 21:43 |
| kencjohn_ | 2/17-18 | 21:43 |
| rockyg_ | Cool. I can make that. | 21:43 |
| barrett | kencjohn_ +1 | 21:43 |
| cloudrancher | I'm doubtful I could go at this point | 21:43 |
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| pchadwick | should be ok for me | 21:43 |
| MeganR | I need to put in for approval, so I am tentative at this point | 21:43 |
| Shamail | Thanks kencjohn_ | 21:44 |
| leong | mine also pending approval | 21:44 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I will not be able to make it to Manchester. | 21:44 |
| barrett | cloudrancher: Can you check it with your management? | 21:44 |
| Shamail | I can confirm after January but no conflicts | 21:44 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | should be able to make it in USA. | 21:44 |
| barrett | Megan: Can you check with your management? | 21:44 |
| cloudrancher | I'll have to check after Jan | 21:44 |
| barrett | I was hoping to nail down date and time by end of next week. | 21:45 |
| MeganR | @barrett: I probably won't know until after the holiday - that's the main focus right now | 21:45 |
| barrett | MeganR: Understand | 21:45 |
| Shamail | ill try to confirm before then... | 21:45 |
| Shamail | MeganR: welcome to retail :) | 21:45 |
| kencjohn_ | barrett Should we ask the reverse, who can confirm today? | 21:45 |
| barrett | Megan, Cloudrancher: Getting confirmation in Jan would apply to a UK based midcycle or US base midcycle, right? | 21:45 |
| leong | or do we want to plan for a USA meet-up, seems like more people can do in USA | 21:46 |
| MeganR | :) | 21:46 |
| annilai | i most likely can make it to Manchester | 21:46 |
| Shamail | I think co-location withs ops summit is important... | 21:46 |
| annilai | US is better | 21:46 |
| rockyg_ | Maybe we send emissaries to England and meet in US? | 21:46 |
| MeganR | @barrett: I am aiming for Manchester - have already mentioned it to mgmt. | 21:46 |
| barrett | We could do 2 things: Have a subset of our team attend Ops in Manchester and then have a US based midcycle immediately afterwards | 21:47 |
| Shamail | rockyg: that might make approval for some harder... The "2-in-1" value prop wouldnt exist | 21:47 |
| pchadwick | Just to be clear, we would attend the Ops Summit and then have the Product meeting? | 21:47 |
| kencjohn_ | I'm happy to be the emissary but I likely won't make a US meetup if I travel for the Ops mid-cycle | 21:47 |
| sgordon | i believe we had at least two folks who cand make it | 21:47 |
| sgordon | *can | 21:47 |
| barrett | pchadwich: +1 | 21:47 |
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| leong | what about this: everyone pls check with manegement approval and feedback early Jan (give a date). | 21:47 |
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| leong | if majority people cannot got, then plan for a local USA meetup? | 21:48 |
| annilai | I can | 21:48 |
| kencjohn_ | Shamail rockyg_ I'd be affected by the lack of 2-in-1 | 21:48 |
| rockyg_ | OK. Good to know. | 21:48 |
| Shamail | I could foresee the same... I can easily justify our mid-cycle but would have a hard time making tbe ops summit without it | 21:48 |
| MeganR | +1 | 21:49 |
| barrett | We can put this on the agenda for 1/11 meeting. Everyone pls work on understanding what they can do ahead of that meeting. | 21:49 |
| leong | time track.. we have less than 10 minutes | 21:49 |
| pchadwick | This team meeting would be more important for me as well. | 21:49 |
| barrett | Leong: Thanks | 21:49 |
| barrett | #topic Stable Branch Project | 21:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stable Branch Project (Meeting topic: Product Working Group)" | 21:49 | |
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| Shamail | barrett: lets revisit next week? While all of us try to figure out commit for UK? | 21:49 |
| barrett | RockyG - Can you take this one? | 21:49 |
| barrett | Shamail: +1 | 21:50 |
| rockyg_ | Yah. So a very quick write up here:https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Stable_Release_Maintenance_-_Prod_WG | 21:50 |
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| barrett | #link: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Stable_Release_Maintenance_-_Prod_WG | 21:50 |
| rockyg_ | There are converging interests on getting releases supported beyond the 1 year point | 21:51 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | review.openstack.org is not responding. so cannot comment on reviews | 21:51 |
| kencjohn_ | rockyg_ In reading the document, why was it deemed that PWG would be a good contributor above say, the Ops or other User Committees? | 21:51 |
| rockyg_ | Minimum for upgrade, but also to reduce work across companies who provide support | 21:51 |
| pchadwick | Is there any converging interest on picking one release per year to be long term supported? | 21:51 |
| pchadwick | that is the only real way to reduce the multi-company workload. | 21:52 |
| rockyg_ | Mainly because it's a corporate thing. Companies provide the long support | 21:52 |
| rockyg_ | So, it is pretty much a "product" | 21:52 |
| rockyg_ | with the same planning and support needs | 21:52 |
| rockyg_ | Users and ops are consumers | 21:53 |
| annilai | also, we need business case for it | 21:53 |
| kencjohn_ | Hmm, ok, I guess I have some concern with the general approach especially as it relates to Rolling Upgrades. | 21:53 |
| annilai | that's why product WG is a good forum for it. | 21:53 |
| rockyg_ | There is talk of that, but first, we need to figure out how to just extending a release could work | 21:53 |
| Shamail | kencjohn_: probably because the main limiting factor will be development resources, therefore asking the majority of contributing companies to get involved is the logical next step. | 21:53 |
| barrett | I think that many view the Product WG as the planning arm for OpenStack - and this is a product planning issue | 21:53 |
| kencjohn_ | I realize this stable branch project is moving forward, but I'd rather see this group focus on things that remove the barriers to upgrades instead of adding additional stickiness to any given release | 21:54 |
| rockyg_ | The first focus is how to keep the upgrade tests working. | 21:54 |
| Shamail | barrett: +1 | 21:54 |
| cloudrancher | Even with rolling upgrades companies like to test and validate new releases | 21:54 |
| kencjohn_ | That way new features are in the hands of users more quickly, instead of a multiyear feedback sycle | 21:54 |
| barrett | kencjohn_: I think that finding that balance point will be part of the exercise for defining criteria and process | 21:54 |
| rockyg_ | barrett: ++ | 21:55 |
| barrett | For today, I'd like to get a show of hands of who would be interested in joining a subteam to work on this? | 21:55 |
| pchadwick | We need to define what "support" means: | 21:55 |
| pchadwick | accepting bug fix? | 21:55 |
| rockyg_ | Also, if only one company has to backport any patch, the amount of work in each company participating lessens | 21:55 |
| barrett | Target time frame for 1st proposal is end of Jan | 21:55 |
| rockyg_ | o/ | 21:55 |
| kencjohn_ | barrett o/ | 21:55 |
| barrett | Thanks Rockyg | 21:55 |
| sgordon | w.r.t. development resources i would think these showing up to help maintain stable | 21:56 |
| barrett | Thanks Kencjohn_ | 21:56 |
| sgordon | would be a precursor to extending the lifecycle | 21:56 |
| rockyg_ | sgordon: ++ | 21:56 |
| pchadwick | yes - but most of us already do it. | 21:56 |
| rockyg_ | Likely some framework effort, too. | 21:56 |
| sgordon | pchadwick, well that's kinda what im getting at | 21:56 |
| sgordon | we do in fact have multiple working on upstream stable | 21:56 |
| pchadwick | Anecdotally, the problem is that the core teams are sometimes slow to accept backports. | 21:57 |
| sgordon | this conversation is posited on the fact that others dont | 21:57 |
| sgordon | so why is that? | 21:57 |
| rockyg_ | sgordon: exactly. if we each contribute directly, not only does the workload go down for each, but we get credit for it in the community | 21:57 |
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| sgordon | im skeptical that it's just because the branch closes | 21:57 |
| sgordon | because they aren't there before that either | 21:57 |
| Shamail | rockyg_: +1 | 21:57 |
| barrett | Folks - Don't mean to cut-off discussion, but we've got 3 mins left. Let's get a team formed where there can be more discussion to create a proposal. Then they can bring it back into this group for review/feedback. OK? | 21:57 |
| rockyg_ | The stable team will be doing the accepting of the backports | 21:57 |
| leong | barrett: +1 | 21:58 |
| Shamail | barrett: +1 | 21:58 |
| annilai | +1 | 21:58 |
| pchadwick | +1 | 21:58 |
| MeganR | barrett +1 | 21:58 |
| pchadwick | I can work on the team. | 21:58 |
| rockyg_ | sgordon: lots more. Rolling python package cahnges makes old code break | 21:58 |
| barrett | Thanks pchadwick | 21:58 |
| Shamail | barrett: I'd like to defer the CPL topic to next week but I'll send an email to the ML this week on it. | 21:58 |
| cloudrancher | rope me in too | 21:58 |
| rockyg_ | Kewl. | 21:58 |
| barrett | Rockyg: Will you take the action to pull together the interested folks for an initial meeting? | 21:58 |
| kencjohn_ | cloudrancher "rope" nice :) | 21:58 |
| rockyg_ | Sure. | 21:59 |
| Shamail | kencjohn_: lol | 21:59 |
| cloudrancher | <unintentional pun> | 21:59 |
| rockyg_ | This will likely dovetail into some of the other rolling upgrades/updates | 21:59 |
| barrett | #action RockyG setup kick off meeting for Stable Branch team with Kenny, Jay, Pete, Carol. | 21:59 |
| kencjohn_ | cloudrancher I could hear the Texas drawl through my screen | 21:59 |
| barrett | Great | 22:00 |
| pchadwick | One interesting question for the mid-cycle ops is how many ops will really do regular upgrades | 22:00 |
| cloudrancher | sorry - I really do talk that way sometimes | 22:00 |
| sgordon | i would also like to be involved in framing the plan for stable | 22:00 |
| pchadwick | vs most of my customers wanting to wait 12 months minimum | 22:00 |
| sgordon | as a rep of a distributor who already has people contributing to stable... | 22:00 |
| barrett | #action Rocky Include Steve in the kickoff meeting too | 22:00 |
| sgordon | which is where a lot of my questions are coming from | 22:00 |
| barrett | Thanks folks - we | 22:00 |
| rockyg_ | I think the 12 months minimum is pretty standard at customer sites | 22:00 |
| barrett | We're out of time for today. | 22:00 |
| Shamail | barrett: i have to leave but did my plan on CPL sound good? | 22:00 |
| pchadwick | shamail: +1 | 22:01 |
| leong | shamail: +1 | 22:01 |
| annilai | +1 | 22:01 |
| barrett | Shamail: Is the plan to address at midcycle? | 22:01 |
| Shamail | No, ill send to ML and would like to have it on agenda next week | 22:01 |
| rockyg_ | Good. | 22:01 |
| barrett | Shamail - OK. | 22:01 |
| barrett | #endmeeting | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_dvr)" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Dec 7 22:01:53 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2015/product_working_group.2015-12-07-21.00.html | 22:01 |
| Shamail | ML this week and IRC next week. | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2015/product_working_group.2015-12-07-21.00.txt | 22:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2015/product_working_group.2015-12-07-21.00.log.html | 22:01 |
| pchadwick | bye | 22:02 |
| rockyg_ | Thanks all. | 22:02 |
| Shamail | Thanks all!! Bye | 22:02 |
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