Monday, 2015-12-28

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catherine_d|1#startmeeting refstack19:00
openstackMeeting started Mon Dec 28 19:00:25 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is catherine_d|1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: refstack)"19:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'refstack'19:00
catherine_d|1roll call19:01
alevineo/19:01
catherine_d|1alevine: hello ... let's wait a little bit for Sergey ...19:02
catherine_d|1I don't thin anyone else will join ..19:03
catherine_d|1most a re on holidays19:03
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sslypushenkoHi! o/19:06
catherine_d|1hello sslypushenko:  let's start19:06
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catherine_d|1#link meeting agenda and notes, please feel free to add items https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/refstack-meeting-15-12-2819:06
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catherine_d|1#topic No meeting on Jan 4, 201619:07
*** openstack changes topic to "No meeting on Jan 4, 2016 (Meeting topic: refstack)"19:07
sslypushenko+1)19:07
catherine_d|1#topic Alex Levin's RefStack Requirements document19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Alex Levin's RefStack Requirements document (Meeting topic: refstack)"19:07
catherine_d|1#link  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s_dAIuluztlCC6AZ-WO4_FR2CLje1QyS6kbMxlFHaMk/edit?usp=sharing19:08
catherine_d|1sslypushenko: do you have a chance to review the doc?19:08
sslypushenkoyeap19:08
sslypushenkoI did19:08
catherine_d|1that is great19:08
sslypushenkoA lot of work  should be done to bring this spec in real)19:09
catherine_d|1yep .. we will start with a data model spec which I am writing ...19:10
catherine_d|1should submit in the next day or so for everyone to review ...19:10
alevineThe major reason for this is to sync everyone's understanding on where and how we should move.19:10
alevineI guess we should sync it with higher level stakeholders as well later on. They should confirm that the requirements are correct.19:11
sslypushenkoalevine:  We should ping hogepodge and maybe someone else from DefCore for feedback19:13
catherine_d|1the only thing that I think is missing in the version (and alevine: and I agree to defer that to the next release) is the roles of the differtent type of user as describe in page 12 of the document19:13
catherine_d|1sslypushenko: alevine: DefCore already has a requiirement spec ..on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226902/19:14
catherine_d|1I think we should review that spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226902/19:14
catherine_d|1to see whether there is anything in there that we do not agree with19:14
sslypushenkoit just a small part of the plan19:15
alevineThis spec is only about one enhancement requirement. However, we need to sync the whole picture which I tried to formulate.19:15
sslypushenkoalevine:  +119:15
catherine_d|1alevine''s requirement doc is to express whether we understand DefCore requrement19:15
alevineWe wouldn't want to implement something which is against real demands of stakeholders.19:16
catherine_d|1I agree that DefCore only care about that aspec19:16
catherine_d|1alevine: exactly that is why we should review their spec19:16
catherine_d|1so we would not impelement something again their spec ..19:16
catherine_d|1I totally agree that DefCore spec only about whatever they care about ... and not every details in RefStack19:17
catherine_d|1we are the one to care about what are in RefStack and meet DefCore requirement ..19:18
catherine_d|1so I really urge that we review Marks's https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226902/19:18
alevineIt's not even about all DefCore care about.19:19
catherine_d|1alevine: what they care avout are express in the spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226902/19:20
catherine_d|1including the comments ..19:20
sslypushenkoAnyway, it will be to share alevine's doc with Chris Hoge and Rob Hirschfeld19:20
catherine_d|1we will ..19:20
sslypushenkoOr even discuss the doc on Defcore meeting19:20
catherine_d|1when they take time to review what we put out ... we should also review what they give us ...19:21
catherine_d|1does that seem reasonable ?19:21
sslypushenkoI will review 226902 ASAP19:21
catherine_d|1thank you ...19:22
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alevinecatherine_d: Of course I will too. I actually used first half of it in my reqs.19:22
sslypushenkoBut alevine's doc sounds like plan and refstack definitely needs a sort of one19:23
catherine_d|1alevine: exactly ... so let show that we care about what they put out officially by response to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226902/19:23
catherine_d|1sslypushenko: ++119:23
catherine_d|1I spent about 6 hours with alevine: on this doc ...19:23
catherine_d|1Of course we want to push it forward .. it just that before we ask them for more ... we should take it serious on what they have giving us ...19:24
sslypushenkoDoc looks really detailed)19:24
catherine_d|1otherwise it just like a cycle ...19:24
alevinecatherine_d: That's weird. I've actually forgotten for a minute what "to review" means in OpenStack. I thought to myself - I did read it, what else. Then I recalled that I need to show it with +1 :)19:24
catherine_d|1alevine: EXACTLY ... and I know you have done all the woirk ...19:25
alevinecatherine_d: I will, soon.19:25
catherine_d|1alevine: THANK YOU ...19:25
sslypushenkoalevine:  We appreciated your efforts so much)19:26
catherine_d|1sslypushenko: +219:26
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catherine_d|1one we merge their spec ... we will take alevine: 's doc as our understanding of the spec and our  plan to execute ...19:27
sslypushenkoRefStack needs some kind of plan, to attract community attention and, as a result, some human resources19:27
catherine_d|1sslypushenko: yea .. that is RefStack's issue ..19:28
catherine_d|1I have raised that to DefCore ...19:28
alevinesslypushenko: Oh, come on. You know we don't need so many niceties here in USSR :)19:28
sslypushenkoJust kind of a good habit)19:29
catherine_d|1that is why I really want to execute alevine: 's doc and pland with his team19:29
catherine_d|1so I think we are all good?19:30
sslypushenko+119:30
alevine+119:30
catherine_d|1#action Request DefCore to review alevine: 's doc by put that in DefCore's next meeting agenda.19:31
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catherine_d|1#action Catherine will put that in the DefCore meeting agenda19:32
catherine_d|1#topic Vendor registraion spec19:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Vendor registraion spec (Meeting topic: refstack)"19:32
catherine_d|1#link Vendor registraion spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226902/19:32
sslypushenkocatherine_d|1:  I will review spec ASAP19:32
catherine_d|1#acrion sslypushenko: alevine: to review  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226902/19:33
sslypushenkoI think is ok, but need to reed final state19:33
catherine_d|1sslypushenko: thank you19:33
sslypushenkocatherine_d|1: np19:33
catherine_d|1#topic data model19:34
*** openstack changes topic to "data model (Meeting topic: refstack)"19:34
alevinecatherine_d: I'll need some more time to reread it. Not right now.19:34
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catherine_d|1#action Catherine will write a spec to spell out the data model based on alevine: requirement and data model presentation19:35
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catherine_d|1alevine: please take your time ..19:35
sslypushenkocatherine_d|1:  Lets put data model on hold while doc in review19:35
catherine_d|1most people are on vacation .. DefCore meeting will be in January ... seriously most will be in normal schedule in the second week of January19:36
alevinecatherine_d: Do you think maybe better to start with detailing the object model? Properties, methods and stuff. And then it'll be clearer how to serialize it into DB. Or just use some object serializer.19:36
alevinesslypushenko: +119:37
sslypushenkoAgreed with alevine19:37
alevineMy thinking is that datamodel is a final stage of design.19:37
catherine_d|1OK we can do that ..19:38
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sslypushenkoit will take us a week to update schema to meet new expectations19:38
alevinecatherine_d: I was planning to emphasize on the object model adding the details when all the devs agree on the high-level picture. However I can start since Paul and David are not here soon.19:39
sslypushenkoso lets focus on paper work))19:39
catherine_d|1I did not see a lot of deviation so far between the domian digram and the data model ... but we can wait19:39
catherine_d|1alevine: I know that is why I want to start a spec so people can take it seriously ...19:40
alevinecatherine_d: It's just I remember you worrying about upgrade. We can think about noSQL DB. It'll save us a lot.19:40
catherine_d|1alevine: I do worry about the upgrade...19:40
catherine_d|1and data integrity19:40
alevinecatherine_d: You won't have to in case of noSQL or semantic-free DB.19:40
catherine_d|1noSQL will be a major upgrade ...19:41
sslypushenkoalevine:  It depends on how much resources RefStack will have19:41
sslypushenkoRight now noSQL is not an option19:41
catherine_d|1sslypushenko: ++219:41
catherine_d|1alevine: the DB right now is a service in OpenStack infra19:42
catherine_d|1I am not sure they offer noSQL service19:42
alevineguys, right now major upgrade is not a problem at all, IMO. Because we don't have many clients nor much data. Neither problems with downtime.19:42
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catherine_d|1IMO noSQL should be future consideration ..19:43
alevineWe can use SQL as NoSQL - no problem. What I'm saying, we need to think of it. If we decide to, say, just serialize our objects into XML and store in one table - we'll have no troubles with upgrade whatsoever. We'll just need to be sure that there are no contradicting reqs, like performance or something else.19:43
catherine_d|1alevine: XML is out of the question for OpenStack IMO19:44
sslypushenkoalevine: In this case we will meet an performance issues soon19:44
alevineI'm not saying that we SHOULD jump to something else right now. I'm saying that we'll see what's best when we get down to this stage from the above and especially when we'll have clarified non-functional reqs.19:44
alevinewhy?19:45
alevineI mean, don't answer that.19:45
alevineI'm saying that we won't - there are many tactics how to avoid it.19:45
alevineIn many performance-tight systems of mine I had to get rid of SQL and use other techniques.19:45
sslypushenkowe should find out compromise between flexibility and ability to build kind of index19:45
alevineBecause SQL DB didn't satisfy.19:46
alevineYou can have many ways to build index.19:46
catherine_d|1There is a lot of discussion about XMLin OpenStack mostly anti XML .. what I see is that XML support of the interface is taking out of Tempest of ter a long discussion ..19:46
alevineYou can build it in memory or store separately, you know.19:46
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sslypushenkoalevine: I agreed that MongoDB meets RefStack expectations much closer than mysql19:46
sslypushenkobut all these changes need people to make it done19:47
alevinecatherine_d: That was just an example. I'm saying that designing SQL tables now is a bit too early for my thinking.19:47
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catherine_d|1alevine: ic19:47
sslypushenkoalevine:  yeap19:47
catherine_d|1Let's just focus of achievable tasks for Mitaka19:48
sslypushenko+119:48
alevinesslypushenko: Right now we have quite a small DB. We can have it exported into a different design practically in no time - both implementationally and operationally.19:48
catherine_d|1so have not amke any major feature added since Liberty ... we only have about 2.5 months to go19:48
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alevineMy thinking is that as soon as we agree - everything I wrote is implementable in Mitaka.19:49
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sslypushenkoHmmm It is a lof efforts19:49
alevinenope :)19:49
sslypushenkoHow big is your team?19:50
catherine_d|1alevine:I am not tha optimistic ... look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226902/  it was submit on  Sept 2319:50
alevineI guess 1 person full-time I can contribute. Maybe 0.5 more :)19:50
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alevineHowever, many features I wrote are already implemented in our prototype refstack site. And it did not take long.19:51
sslypushenkoSo, you definitely overoptimistic)19:51
catherine_d|1I agree19:51
alevineHave you seen our refstack? Obviously you have.19:51
sslypushenkoYeap, I have19:52
catherine_d|1but I truly believe that we can make progress if we focus on achievable tasks19:52
catherine_d|1alevine: I have ...19:52
alevineWe already have Guidelines registration, clouds registration and some other stuff.19:52
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alevineAh, the only think I'd postpone is tempest auto-configuration, however even this is achievable to some extent.19:54
catherine_d|1alevine: I want to be optimistic but the reallity on working on this project for the last 2 years really bring doubt to my mind19:54
sslypushenkoif we add here vendor registration it will be cool enough for Mitaka cycle19:54
catherine_d|1sslypushenko: +++++219:54
alevinecatherine_d: I wouldn't say this if we didn't dig very deep into this yet. We did rework and enhance it a lot. I don't see real showstoppers.19:54
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alevineHow about this. Let's agree the reqs with the DefCore. And in the meantime I'll detail the design and then we'll create a prototype.19:55
catherine_d|15 mins to go we have a couple actions items already ... let's execute that ...we will discuss about db in the next meeting19:55
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catherine_d|1anything else19:55
catherine_d|1?19:55
sslypushenkoalevine:  It looks like you are not really familiar with community driven development)19:56
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alevinesslypushenko: I am.19:56
sslypushenkoIt took us half a year to get just hosting for RefStack)19:56
catherine_d|1sslypushenko: +119:56
alevinesslypushenko: However, I'm talking about the prototype. And we're talking about being fast, right?19:56
sslypushenkoalevine: I hope your plans will come true)19:57
catherine_d|1an once we hosted it .. we have several unexpected issues (like caching, network ...)19:57
alevinesslypushenko: That's great job, so you'll know how to add the Testing Server :)19:57
alevinecatherine_d: Perfect, that's the way to divide the work. The prototype would demonstrate functionality and proof of concepts. I'll detail what will be done in it and what not.19:58
sslypushenkooh, no) I'm prefer to get testing stage some where out of community resources)19:58
alevinecatherine_d: And then we'll need to propertly host it and many other things.19:58
catherine_d|1the is no prototype ... anything you commit will show up on RefStack webstie 15 mins later ...19:59
alevinecatherine_d: Sorry, let's get back to those two more things.19:59
catherine_d|1we need to end this meeting19:59
catherine_d|1we can talk on #refstack19:59
alevinecatherine_d: There is. We have it right now.19:59
sslypushenko+119:59
catherine_d|1#endmeeting19:59
alevinesure19:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:59
openstackMeeting ended Mon Dec 28 19:59:37 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-12-28-19.00.html19:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-12-28-19.00.txt19:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/refstack/2015/refstack.2015-12-28-19.00.log.html19:59
redrobot#startmeeting barbican20:00
openstackMeeting started Mon Dec 28 20:00:03 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is redrobot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'barbican'20:00
redrobot#topic Roll Call20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: barbican)"20:00
diazjfo/20:00
redrobotHappy Holidays everyone!20:00
panatlo/20:00
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diazjfHappy Holidays!! :)20:00
edtubillo/20:00
redrobotThere's like 300% more people here than I thought would be20:01
redrobotthere were not Action Items last week20:02
edtubilllol. I was expecting just diazjf by himself.20:02
redrobotso we can start with the Agenda20:02
redrobotwhich, as usual, can be found here:20:02
redrobot#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican20:02
redrobot#topic Mitaka Mid-cycle20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Mitaka Mid-cycle (Meeting topic: barbican)"20:02
redrobot#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican20:02
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woodster_o/20:02
redrobotjust a reminder that the mid-cycle is coming up in about 3 weeks20:03
redrobotlooking forward to hosting everyone at the Castle20:03
panatlthanks! @redrobot20:03
redrobotlooks like everyone is being shy about adding topics to the etherpad20:03
redrobot#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-mitaka-midcycle20:04
redrobotI'll add some in the next couple o weeks20:04
redrobotany questions/comments about the mid-cycle?20:05
redrobotthat's all I had as far as agenda topics ...20:06
redrobot#topic Open Discussion20:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: barbican)"20:06
kfarro/20:06
redrobotanything else we need to talk about before we go celebrate the new year?20:07
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redrobotgoing once20:09
redrobot...20:09
kfarrNothing from me!20:10
redrobotok then...20:14
redrobotthanks for coming, folks20:14
redrobotand Happy New Year! :D20:14
redrobot#endmeeting20:15
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:15
edtubillHave a Happy New Years as well :)20:15
openstackMeeting ended Mon Dec 28 20:15:14 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:15
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-12-28-20.00.html20:15
kfarrthanks redrobot!20:15
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-12-28-20.00.txt20:15
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2015/barbican.2015-12-28-20.00.log.html20:15
diazjfSee everyone next year!! Thank you20:15
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