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| dirk | toabctl, dirk, aplanas, IgorYozhikov, jruzicka: ping | 12:58 |
|---|---|---|
| IgorYozhikov | o/ | 12:58 |
| dirk | #startmeeting rpm_packaging | 12:58 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 19 12:58:53 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dirk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:58 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 12:58 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rpm_packaging' | 12:58 |
| toabctl | hi | 12:59 |
| mivanov | hi | 12:59 |
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| dirk | everyone, please add your agenda items to | 13:01 |
| dirk | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-rpm-packaging | 13:01 |
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| IgorYozhikov | dirk, I have no topics today | 13:04 |
| dirk | thanks | 13:04 |
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| dirk | #topic renderspec version | 13:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "renderspec version (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:06 | |
| IgorYozhikov | dirk, when do you plan to release ? | 13:06 |
| dirk | currently we#re using renderspec from git for the gating, which turned out to be bad (we already broke gating during the summit) | 13:07 |
| IgorYozhikov | and should we use v like 1.0.0? | 13:07 |
| dirk | so I wanted to change it to use a release, which means we actually need to have a release | 13:07 |
| dirk | currently I think toabctl is manually uploading releases | 13:07 |
| dirk | I wanted to give the openstack release process a try, but I stumbled on choosing a version number | 13:07 |
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| dirk | would 0.1 be okay ? | 13:07 |
| IgorYozhikov | agree, released projects is much easier to package | 13:07 |
| toabctl | yes. but openstackci is already owner | 13:07 |
| toabctl | 0.1 is fine for me | 13:08 |
| dirk | I think we should make it an release:independent project, which means we should choose post versioning | 13:08 |
| dirk | (semver) | 13:08 |
| dirk | I was just unsure if we want to start with 1.0.0 or with something < 1.0.0 | 13:08 |
| IgorYozhikov | toabctl, does 0.1 looks fine according to versioning in OS | 13:08 |
| dirk | (basically semver says 0.x is not semver) | 13:08 |
| IgorYozhikov | dirk, ++ | 13:09 |
| toabctl | as a independent project, can we still follow the global-requirements with renderspec? | 13:09 |
| dirk | toabctl: yes | 13:09 |
| toabctl | ok. great | 13:09 |
| dirk | the only trouble is that when we want to update a stable/ branch with a newer renderspec, we need to do that manually | 13:09 |
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| IgorYozhikov | dirk, should we make a tag 1st? | 13:10 |
| dirk | no | 13:10 |
| dirk | I think | 13:10 |
| dirk | so ++1 was on the version number 1.0.0 or 0.1 ? | 13:10 |
| dirk | IgorYozhikov: ^^ | 13:10 |
| IgorYozhikov | semver | 13:11 |
| IgorYozhikov | 1.0.0 | 13:11 |
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| IgorYozhikov | we could use 1.0.0.0b1, b2, and so on in case of necessity | 13:12 |
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| IgorYozhikov | just my thoughts | 13:12 |
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| toabctl | 1 for 1.0.0 | 13:12 |
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| * toabctl doesn't care about the number | 13:13 | |
| toabctl | +1 I mean | 13:13 |
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| dirk | yeah, I'd just start with 1.0.0 for now | 13:13 |
| dirk | #agreed use 1.0.0 | 13:13 |
| toabctl | dirk: are you going to prepare the needed changesets for project-config ? | 13:13 |
| dirk | toabctl: yep | 13:13 |
| toabctl | thx | 13:13 |
| dirk | #topic reviews | 13:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "reviews (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:14 | |
| dirk | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/rpm-packaging | 13:15 |
| dirk | I was looking at python-keystoneclient which is sort of the next one | 13:15 |
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| IgorYozhikov | unfortunately, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/311285/ can't pass our CI due spec-cleaner from pypi | 13:15 |
| IgorYozhikov | in master abs path is fixed | 13:16 |
| toabctl | also the log update. for SUSE we need that | 13:16 |
| dirk | IgorYozhikov: there was a new spec_cleaner release | 13:16 |
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| toabctl | dirk: that doesn't help for the /var/lib/obs problem | 13:17 |
| toabctl | IgorYozhikov: have you already prepared a PR to fix that? | 13:17 |
| IgorYozhikov | toabctl, https://github.com/openSUSE/spec-cleaner/blob/spec-cleaner-0.8.7/setup.py has abs path | 13:17 |
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| IgorYozhikov | https://github.com/openSUSE/spec-cleaner/blob/master/setup.py has fix | 13:17 |
| IgorYozhikov | it installs into venv fine | 13:18 |
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| IgorYozhikov | I just checked locally | 13:18 |
| IgorYozhikov | everything installed into venv | 13:19 |
| dirk | ok, so we need another release | 13:19 |
| IgorYozhikov | dirk, looks so | 13:19 |
| toabctl | dirk: do you know Tomáš irc nick? | 13:20 |
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| dirk | toabctl: scarabeus | 13:20 |
| toabctl | ok. I'll ping him to get a new release out | 13:20 |
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| dirk | #action toabctl get a spec_cleaner release out that fixes virtualenv install issue | 13:21 |
| dirk | I had a look at keystoneclient just a few hours ago | 13:21 |
| IgorYozhikov | toabctl, thanx (^_^) | 13:21 |
| dirk | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/290472/ | 13:21 |
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| dirk | and I couldn't understand the fuel build failure. IgorYozhikov or maximov | 13:21 |
| dirk | can you look into that one? | 13:21 |
| dirk | (and everyone else: please review.. :) ) | 13:22 |
| IgorYozhikov | dirk, already looking | 13:22 |
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| IgorYozhikov | https://packaging-ci.fuel-infra.org/job/master-rpm-packaging-build/137/artifact/artifacts/python-keystoneclient-buildlog.txt/*view*/ looks strange, I'll investigate this failure today. | 13:23 |
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| IgorYozhikov | testr failed | 13:23 |
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| dirk | I'm also lacking desparate reviews on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/297112/ | 13:24 |
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| toabctl | dirk: do we want to use global-requirements or upper-constrains ? | 13:25 |
| IgorYozhikov | dirk, looks like file is outdated since it was uploaded | 13:25 |
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| IgorYozhikov | yes, this is the topic | 13:25 |
| IgorYozhikov | g-r || u-c | 13:25 |
| IgorYozhikov | thanx toabctl | 13:25 |
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| dirk | IgorYozhikov: imho we should use global-requirements | 13:26 |
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| dirk | we should aim for packaging upper constraints, but the requirements in the spec file should be the lower bound imho | 13:26 |
| dirk | I saw the discussion on the mailing list, I think that was the conclusion there as well but maybe I misread it | 13:27 |
| IgorYozhikov | dirk, so, Requires >= g-r, dependencies*.rpm should be updated according to u-c. Right? | 13:27 |
| dirk | yes | 13:27 |
| toabctl | dirk: have you already checked if we can get this file automatically updated with the bot? | 13:28 |
| toabctl | anyway - we can handle that later. | 13:28 |
| dirk | toabctl: currently it only updates requirements.txt or test-requirements.txt | 13:29 |
| dirk | the bot I mean | 13:29 |
| toabctl | a new spec-cleaner release is on its way :) | 13:29 |
| dirk | we probably have to add a special case for that | 13:29 |
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| IgorYozhikov | It could bring complexity in tracking of versions changes. I ncase when u-c versions used - yum||zypper will take care | 13:29 |
| dirk | unless we just want to rename it to requirements.txt | 13:29 |
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| toabctl | dirk: it's also on a different path... | 13:30 |
| IgorYozhikov | just my thoughts | 13:30 |
| dirk | toabctl: huh? | 13:31 |
| dirk | its in the root dir | 13:31 |
| toabctl | oh | 13:31 |
| toabctl | ok | 13:31 |
| dirk | IgorYozhikov: I'm not sure I understand that.. zypper uses the newest available version always (and when you update from an existing version, it will use the newest one that is installable without conflicts unless you force it, which will then cause a conflict dialog) | 13:32 |
| dirk | so using a lower bound just gives you the flexibility of choosing to go with an older than the most current version | 13:32 |
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| dirk | it doesn't cause any other issue | 13:32 |
| dirk | I don't know enough about yum to understand though if that is any different there | 13:32 |
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| IgorYozhikov | dirk, just trying to be more closer to current versions, this could help in case of projects will raise lower bounds which could be still << then values in u-c | 13:34 |
| IgorYozhikov | that's it | 13:35 |
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| IgorYozhikov | anyway, got your point of view and it is clear 4 me | 13:35 |
| dirk | IgorYozhikov: yeah, my secret master plan is to write a script to review the cases where lower bounds and uc are way out of sync | 13:36 |
| dirk | and then run a test build with projects bound to the lower boudns to see if it still works | 13:36 |
| dirk | so e.g. lower bounds should be meaningful | 13:36 |
| dirk | from my current experience I don't think there are a lot of cases where lower bounds isn't "correct" | 13:37 |
| IgorYozhikov | o i c | 13:37 |
| dirk | IgorYozhikov: see 3.4.2 in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/requirements-tasks | 13:39 |
| dirk | so can we move forward with the global-requirements.txt copy file ? | 13:39 |
| dirk | I think currently we don't generate spec files with lower bounds anymore, I would like to get that fixed | 13:39 |
| dirk | current state is not useable for SUSE anymore | 13:39 |
| dirk | please add your reviews to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/297112/ | 13:40 |
| dirk | tia | 13:40 |
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| dirk | any other topics ? | 13:40 |
| dirk | otherwise will people join next week ? | 13:40 |
| dirk | its a public holiday here | 13:40 |
| IgorYozhikov | dirk, file is old, may be it could be better to update it 1st? | 13:40 |
| dirk | #topic next meeting slot | 13:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "next meeting slot (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:40 | |
| dirk | IgorYozhikov: sure, will do | 13:40 |
| IgorYozhikov | and I guess 4 mitaka branch too :) | 13:41 |
| IgorYozhikov | great | 13:41 |
| dirk | IgorYozhikov: yeah, one step at a time.. | 13:42 |
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| dirk | toabctl: would you be able to join next week? | 13:42 |
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| toabctl | dirk: yes. why not? | 13:43 |
| IgorYozhikov | I'll be here | 13:43 |
| dirk | toabctl: its a public holiday | 13:43 |
| dirk | :-) | 13:43 |
| dirk | ok, then cya next week same time! | 13:43 |
| toabctl | dirk: ah. only in south germany I guess | 13:43 |
| dirk | #endmeeting | 13:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:44 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 19 13:44:00 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:44 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2016/rpm_packaging.2016-05-19-12.58.html | 13:44 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2016/rpm_packaging.2016-05-19-12.58.txt | 13:44 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2016/rpm_packaging.2016-05-19-12.58.log.html | 13:44 |
| dirk | toabctl: maybe, true | 13:44 |
| dirk | ok. nevermind then | 13:44 |
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| ddieterly | #startmeeting freezer | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 19 14:00:29 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ddieterly. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'freezer' | 14:00 |
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| ddieterly | hi ice cubes | 14:02 |
| yangyapeng | hi | 14:02 |
| ddieterly | attendance? | 14:02 |
| ddieterly | o/ | 14:02 |
| yangyapeng | :) | 14:03 |
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| ddieterly | just us two? wow | 14:04 |
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| ddieterly | agenda at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer_meetings | 14:04 |
| ddieterly | feel free to add to it | 14:04 |
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| daemontool | o/ | 14:05 |
| yangyapeng | haha | 14:05 |
| ddieterly | hey daemontool! | 14:05 |
| ddieterly | big hugs | 14:05 |
| daemontool | hi ddieterly who's the chair? | 14:06 |
| ddieterly | i am | 14:06 |
| daemontool | ddieterly, only with harms please | 14:06 |
| daemontool | haha | 14:06 |
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| ddieterly | of course | 14:06 |
| daemontool | ok | 14:06 |
| ddieterly | can we get some items on the agenda? | 14:06 |
| daemontool | ok | 14:06 |
| daemontool | the url please? | 14:06 |
| daemontool | this one right https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer_meetings | 14:07 |
| ddieterly | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer_meetings | 14:07 |
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| clsacramento | hello | 14:07 |
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| daemontool | clsacramento, hi | 14:07 |
| ddieterly | greetings to all | 14:08 |
| clsacramento | daemontool: buon giorno, come stai? | 14:08 |
| ddieterly | #topic Tenant resource backup (aka DRaaS) | 14:08 |
| szaher | ddieterly: hi | 14:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tenant resource backup (aka DRaaS) (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:08 | |
| ddieterly | hi szaher! | 14:08 |
| ddieterly | daemontool take it away, please | 14:09 |
| clsacramento | about this Tenant resource backup (aka DRaaS), didn't you find out that there was another project doing it already? | 14:10 |
| ddieterly | smaug? | 14:10 |
| clsacramento | yes, I think that was it | 14:10 |
| daemontool | I'm here | 14:11 |
| daemontool | sorry | 14:11 |
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| daemontool | clsacramento, ola | 14:11 |
| daemontool | so | 14:11 |
| daemontool | during the summit | 14:11 |
| daemontool | the design session | 14:11 |
| daemontool | there were more then one person in the room | 14:11 |
| daemontool | from different companies | 14:11 |
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| daemontool | asking for a complete backup of all the tenant resources | 14:11 |
| daemontool | such as | 14:11 |
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| daemontool | vms, volumes, networks config, identity related etc | 14:12 |
| daemontool | to be restored | 14:12 |
| daemontool | on the same os platform | 14:12 |
| daemontool | or on a new one | 14:12 |
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| daemontool | it is quite interesting | 14:12 |
| daemontool | and more and more users are asking for it | 14:12 |
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| clsacramento | yes, I really like this feature | 14:13 |
| clsacramento | It looks like vmware vApp and it is quite nice | 14:13 |
| daemontool | yes | 14:13 |
| daemontool | clsacramento, exactly | 14:13 |
| daemontool | that would make us competitive :) | 14:13 |
| daemontool | so I've tried to summarize somethign here | 14:13 |
| daemontool | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/freezer/+spec/tenant-backup | 14:13 |
| daemontool | let me know | 14:13 |
| daemontool | any feedback | 14:13 |
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| daemontool | so everythhing backed up taken from the API, | 14:14 |
| daemontool | such as metadata, glance image, snapshots | 14:14 |
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| daemontool | volumes etc etc | 14:14 |
| szaher | daemontool: Ciao | 14:14 |
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| szaher | There is a project from Mirantis called Pumphouse they used to do something similar | 14:14 |
| szaher | https://github.com/Mirantis/pumphouse | 14:14 |
| clsacramento | I would add not only in case of lost, but in case of willing to replicate a lab too, it is very useful for that | 14:15 |
| szaher | I don't know why they stopped but they were backing up resources then upgrade the cloud then restore resources again | 14:15 |
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| szaher | May be we can take a look we might find something useful | 14:15 |
| ddieterly | wondering about load on the api's and performance of that kind of approach | 14:16 |
| daemontool | let's reuse whatever can be reused of course | 14:16 |
| daemontool | yes | 14:16 |
| daemontool | ddieterly, that's a good point, I think it depends on how many you execute simultaneously | 14:16 |
| daemontool | or in a short time windows | 14:16 |
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| ddieterly | i think we need more research on pumphouse and smaug | 14:17 |
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| ddieterly | anyone want to take an action item and report back next week? | 14:19 |
| clsacramento | daemontool: I was thinking, it is easier on the same cloud because all images, volumes and vm emephemeral disks are already in there backend storage, we can only duplicate them. If it is to recover on a different cloud we would have to download all of that to some other media and make it available on the other cloud... | 14:20 |
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| clsacramento | ddieterly: I can do that | 14:20 |
| szaher | ddieterly: I don't know if we can only backup mysql database which contains all the required metadata and Openstack will automatically create this resources once we restore the database again and only backup volumes, instances, images and so ? | 14:20 |
| szaher | s/this/these/g | 14:20 |
| clsacramento | szaher: I dont think backing up the database is the best approach. We should be able to get all the info we need to backup from the APIs | 14:21 |
| ddieterly | clsacramento thanks | 14:21 |
| ddieterly | #action clsacramento to investigate smaug and pumphouse | 14:21 |
| szaher | clsacramento: we need to know about the drawbacks of using this approach when we have a big deployment with hundreds of tenants and resources | 14:22 |
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| ddieterly | szaher i don't follow your first point | 14:22 |
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| szaher | ddieterly: the database approach ? | 14:23 |
| ddieterly | yes | 14:23 |
| clsacramento | szaher: for example: if I insert a flavor in MySQL database, openstack automatically creates it for me? | 14:23 |
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| szaher | clsacramento: I would say that Openstack stores it's own metadata in mysql database :) and I think yes it will create it automatically | 14:24 |
| daemontool | ok | 14:24 |
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| clsacramento | szaher: I dont think it does, but I'll check this out | 14:24 |
| szaher | clsacramento: you can worry about neutron namespaces for example as I am not sure if it will be create automatically or not | 14:24 |
| daemontool | we need to get the metadata and data from the API | 14:25 |
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| szaher | clsacramento: What about when we take the cloud down then up again ?? How Openstack recovers ? | 14:25 |
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| daemontool | or we'll have tenants executing actions directly to the db | 14:25 |
| daemontool | which is not good | 14:25 |
| daemontool | let's have a conversation on the freezer chan for this | 14:25 |
| daemontool | and move forward with the topics? | 14:25 |
| daemontool | :) | 14:25 |
| szaher | Guys, What I am saying here let's review both approaches :) what will happen at big scales ? | 14:25 |
| daemontool | ok | 14:26 |
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| ddieterly | daemontool sounds good | 14:26 |
| szaher | daemontool: OK | 14:26 |
| daemontool | ++ | 14:26 |
| ddieterly | #topic DAR | 14:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DAR (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:26 | |
| ddieterly | ok, so currently our incremental restores are busticated under certain conditions | 14:26 |
| ddieterly | seems to be an issue with TAR | 14:26 |
| ddieterly | DAR handles the condition quite well | 14:26 |
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| ddieterly | could we investigate a DAR engine as szaher has suggested | 14:27 |
| daemontool | ddieterly, yes you are right, in my opinion, I'd remove the deps to binaries.. | 14:27 |
| daemontool | asap | 14:27 |
| daemontool | I'd focus on that, rather investing time in contingencies solutions | 14:27 |
| clsacramento | sorry, what's DAR? | 14:27 |
| ddieterly | not sure what you mean | 14:27 |
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| daemontool | tar, gzip, dar | 14:27 |
| daemontool | are all binaries | 14:27 |
| ddieterly | yes | 14:28 |
| daemontool | openssl... | 14:28 |
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| ddieterly | so, you want to implement that functionality directly in freezer instead of using the binaries? | 14:28 |
| daemontool | I think we have to work to remove deps to those binaries | 14:28 |
| daemontool | yes, there are modules done | 14:28 |
| daemontool | that does that | 14:28 |
| daemontool | already | 14:28 |
| ddieterly | or just let users mix and match which ones to use? | 14:28 |
| daemontool | so we'll be more portable | 14:28 |
| daemontool | I think if we use the python modules, our life is easier | 14:29 |
| ddieterly | what modules? | 14:29 |
| daemontool | also for windows | 14:29 |
| szaher | reldan and I are working on some sort of refactoring freezer to be pluggable so hopefully we will be able to add engines but we need the refactoring part to be done first | 14:29 |
| daemontool | like | 14:29 |
| daemontool | bzip, tarfile, crypto.io | 14:29 |
| daemontool | and so on | 14:29 |
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| daemontool | the rsync code | 14:29 |
| daemontool | probably the rsync code | 14:29 |
| daemontool | can remove tar or dar | 14:29 |
| daemontool | by | 14:29 |
| daemontool | backing up the data | 14:29 |
| ddieterly | so there is a python module that implements rsync directly? | 14:29 |
| daemontool | only based on inode | 14:29 |
| daemontool | npoe | 14:29 |
| daemontool | we need to get completed | 14:30 |
| daemontool | this | 14:30 |
| daemontool | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/290461/ | 14:30 |
| daemontool | and we have that | 14:30 |
| daemontool | so the difference would be | 14:30 |
| daemontool | to backup the whole file if the inode is changed | 14:30 |
| daemontool | rather backup block | 14:30 |
| daemontool | and the tar approach will be quite the same | 14:30 |
| daemontool | so tar, dar openssl | 14:30 |
| daemontool | etc | 14:30 |
| daemontool | can be removed | 14:31 |
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| daemontool | but | 14:31 |
| daemontool | it is just my opinion | 14:31 |
| ddieterly | is this your implementation, or is it an existing well-known python module? | 14:31 |
| daemontool | for rsync | 14:32 |
| daemontool | any module | 14:32 |
| daemontool | does not suits | 14:32 |
| daemontool | that's why that implementation | 14:32 |
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| daemontool | if we finish taht | 14:32 |
| daemontool | then we have both inode and block based | 14:32 |
| ddieterly | does the rest of the team have an opinion on this? | 14:33 |
| ddieterly | i'm still not sure what daemontool tool is saying | 14:33 |
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| daemontool | ddieterly, tar just check | 14:33 |
| daemontool | inode modification | 14:33 |
| daemontool | and backup the whole file | 14:33 |
| ddieterly | are we going to implement the functionality directly in freezer or is there an existing python module that does what tar/dar do? | 14:33 |
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| szaher | ddieterly: we need to discuss this before taking a decision | 14:34 |
| daemontool | yes | 14:34 |
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| ddieterly | of course | 14:34 |
| daemontool | szaher, well the engine approach | 14:34 |
| daemontool | has been throughtly discussed | 14:34 |
| ddieterly | trying to understand what daemontool is saying | 14:34 |
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| szaher | daemontool: The engine approach Yes and we agreed we will have mutliple engines and the user can choose what is the best one for him | 14:35 |
| ddieterly | so, it looks like we could implement another 'engine' that uses dar | 14:35 |
| daemontool | ddieterly, well yes | 14:35 |
| ddieterly | or, we could do what daemontool is suggesting | 14:35 |
| daemontool | the rsync engine is being implemented | 14:35 |
| daemontool | I just do not have time | 14:35 |
| daemontool | to finish the restore | 14:35 |
| szaher | daemontool: I thought we are going to remove tar and dar totally | 14:35 |
| daemontool | but the backup there it's working | 14:35 |
| daemontool | szaher, yes | 14:35 |
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| daemontool | that's what I'm advising for | 14:36 |
| ddieterly | well, we don't have dar yet ;-) | 14:36 |
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| daemontool | haha | 14:36 |
| szaher | :D | 14:36 |
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| daemontool | ddieterly, let's have this discussion later in the freezer chan | 14:36 |
| daemontool | ? | 14:36 |
| ddieterly | ok | 14:36 |
| ddieterly | let's move on | 14:36 |
| ddieterly | daemontool is such a task master | 14:36 |
| ddieterly | #topic rsync status | 14:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rsync status (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:37 | |
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| daemontool | ok | 14:38 |
| daemontool | so rsync | 14:38 |
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| daemontool | I need help guys | 14:38 |
| daemontool | the restore needs to be done | 14:38 |
| daemontool | if anyone is interested let me know | 14:38 |
| daemontool | keep in consideration that is a tough bone | 14:38 |
| ddieterly | #action let daemontool know if you want to help with rysnc https://review.openstack.org/#/c/290461/ | 14:38 |
| daemontool | ddieterly, are you interested? | 14:39 |
| ddieterly | i am working on hpe hlm most of the time | 14:39 |
| daemontool | it is also incredibly inteersting | 14:39 |
| ddieterly | :-( | 14:39 |
| daemontool | ok | 14:39 |
| daemontool | np | 14:39 |
| ddieterly | but, i will take a look at it for sure | 14:39 |
| daemontool | ty | 14:40 |
| ddieterly | next topic? | 14:40 |
| daemontool | yes | 14:40 |
| ddieterly | #topic ATT architecture meeting | 14:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ATT architecture meeting (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:40 | |
| daemontool | ok we need to decide how do we manage cases where Company wants to contribute | 14:41 |
| daemontool | without write code | 14:41 |
| ddieterly | this seems like something pierre should be involved with as he is the PTL | 14:41 |
| daemontool | like at Architecture level and so on | 14:41 |
| daemontool | yes I had a word with Pierre | 14:41 |
| daemontool | about this | 14:41 |
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| daemontool | he asked me to drive it | 14:41 |
| ddieterly | well, if they want to contribute w/o writing code, they can submit a bp | 14:41 |
| daemontool | we need to have a meeting to explain them what freezer is | 14:42 |
| daemontool | what it does etc | 14:42 |
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| daemontool | I think we should do a video | 14:42 |
| daemontool | Freezer Intro Video | 14:42 |
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| daemontool | something like that | 14:42 |
| daemontool | an points new comers to that | 14:42 |
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| ddieterly | that would be great | 14:42 |
| daemontool | m3m0, ? | 14:42 |
| daemontool | ping | 14:42 |
| daemontool | you are good with videos :) | 14:42 |
| ddieterly | he is on holiday | 14:42 |
| daemontool | ah ok | 14:42 |
| daemontool | m3m0, and or vannif? | 14:43 |
| ddieterly | m3m0 will be back next week | 14:43 |
| daemontool | ok | 14:43 |
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| daemontool | I'll engage ATT for that | 14:43 |
| ddieterly | i'm not photogenic | 14:43 |
| ddieterly | lol | 14:43 |
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| daemontool | ddieterly, haha well you need to be videogenic | 14:43 |
| daemontool | ok next | 14:43 |
| daemontool | ? | 14:43 |
| ddieterly | sure | 14:43 |
| ddieterly | #topic freezer overview meeting | 14:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "freezer overview meeting (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:44 | |
| ddieterly | what is that? | 14:44 |
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| daemontool | RH | 14:44 |
| daemontool | RH freezer | 14:44 |
| daemontool | same as ATT | 14:44 |
| ddieterly | oh | 14:44 |
| ddieterly | same deal? | 14:44 |
| daemontool | yes | 14:44 |
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| ddieterly | so, are you going to arrange the meetings or is pierre? | 14:44 |
| daemontool | so they are evaluating the backup/dr technology | 14:44 |
| daemontool | to use | 14:44 |
| daemontool | I'm going to do it | 14:44 |
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| daemontool | have to send an email | 14:45 |
| ddieterly | are the meetings in europe or via video chat? | 14:45 |
| daemontool | but wanted to wait next week | 14:45 |
| daemontool | video | 14:45 |
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| daemontool | hangout I think | 14:45 |
| daemontool | frescof__, ping | 14:45 |
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| daemontool | do we have a last freezer presentation? | 14:45 |
| daemontool | we could use the summit one? | 14:45 |
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| daemontool | is that ok do you think? | 14:45 |
| szaher | daemontool: fresco is not at his desk | 14:46 |
| daemontool | clsacramento, szaher ? | 14:46 |
| daemontool | ok | 14:46 |
| daemontool | szaher, ask him please | 14:46 |
| ddieterly | i think a video meeting with them going over the slides that arun uses would be good | 14:46 |
| clsacramento | sorry, what is RH? | 14:46 |
| daemontool | RedHat | 14:46 |
| ddieterly | frescof__ is on holiday | 14:46 |
| daemontool | ok | 14:46 |
| clsacramento | ok | 14:46 |
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| clsacramento | I was thinking of Human Resources in Portuguese :S | 14:46 |
| daemontool | haha | 14:46 |
| daemontool | ddieterly, can anyone make a plain openstack preso out of that? | 14:47 |
| daemontool | without companies logos? | 14:47 |
| ddieterly | #action daemontool will set up meetings | 14:47 |
| daemontool | just openstack and freezer logo? | 14:47 |
| daemontool | I can do it | 14:47 |
| daemontool | ok | 14:47 |
| ddieterly | daemontool i think it would be easy to sanitize them and use them | 14:47 |
| ddieterly | it is public info | 14:47 |
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| daemontool | ddieterly, ok | 14:48 |
| daemontool | someone has to do that thought | 14:48 |
| ddieterly | daemontool just don't tell anyone ;-) | 14:48 |
| daemontool | haha | 14:48 |
| daemontool | ok | 14:48 |
| ddieterly | next topic? | 14:48 |
| daemontool | #action ddieterly sanitize something | 14:48 |
| daemontool | lol | 14:48 |
| ddieterly | yea, i'm good at that | 14:49 |
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| ddieterly | especially toilets | 14:49 |
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| ddieterly | #topic Golang | 14:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Golang (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:49 | |
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| ddieterly | did everybody see this? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/290461/ | 14:49 |
| daemontool | yes | 14:50 |
| ddieterly | oops wrong link | 14:50 |
| daemontool | ddieterly, you proposed Java in the mail thread | 14:50 |
| daemontool | haha | 14:50 |
| ddieterly | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/312267/3 | 14:50 |
| ddieterly | so, maybe we could benifit from Go in freezer? | 14:50 |
| daemontool | ddieterly, I think so | 14:50 |
| daemontool | yes | 14:50 |
| daemontool | but | 14:51 |
| ddieterly | awesome | 14:51 |
| daemontool | last year | 14:51 |
| daemontool | I've tried freezer executing | 14:51 |
| daemontool | actions | 14:51 |
| daemontool | under pypy | 14:51 |
| daemontool | and it was really fast | 14:51 |
| ddieterly | so we should look for ways to incorporate Go in places to optimize performance | 14:51 |
| ddieterly | i can't tell if this passed or not | 14:52 |
| ddieterly | does anyone know? | 14:52 |
| daemontool | ddieterly, I don't know | 14:53 |
| szaher | I guess the workflow is not +1 | 14:53 |
| daemontool | I think there are taks we perform | 14:53 |
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| daemontool | intensive | 14:53 |
| ddieterly | is anyone on freezer opposed to using go? | 14:53 |
| daemontool | for rsync | 14:53 |
| daemontool | math | 14:53 |
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| daemontool | I'm in favor | 14:53 |
| daemontool | just wonder if we really need it and where | 14:53 |
| szaher | daemontool: +1 | 14:53 |
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| daemontool | ok | 14:54 |
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| daemontool | all good anyway | 14:54 |
| daemontool | for me | 14:54 |
| ddieterly | #startvote Should we allow Go in Freezer when it makes sense? | 14:54 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Should we allow Go in Freezer when it makes sense? Valid vote options are Yes, No. | 14:54 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 14:54 |
| daemontool | a part the fact tha tI do not know Go | 14:54 |
| clsacramento | from the last comment on the bp, not sure if approved | 14:54 |
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| ddieterly | #vote yes | 14:54 |
| daemontool | #vote yes | 14:55 |
| clsacramento | #vote yes | 14:55 |
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| daemontool | using new IRC features lol | 14:55 |
| szaher | #vote yes | 14:55 |
| ddieterly | i've always wanted to use that! | 14:55 |
| ddieterly | haha | 14:55 |
| ddieterly | #showvote | 14:55 |
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| ddieterly | #endvote | 14:56 |
| szaher | I would say yes if we really need it badly | 14:56 |
| openstack | Voted on "Should we allow Go in Freezer when it makes sense?" Results are | 14:56 |
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| ddieterly | #showvote | 14:56 |
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| daemontool | ddieterly, ok, I'm glad you are enjoying it | 14:57 |
| ddieterly | ok, so the vote results are logged in the meeting minutes | 14:57 |
| * daemontool hug ddieterly lol | 14:57 | |
| ddieterly | ok, any other items in the time remaining? | 14:57 |
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| daemontool | I think we are good | 14:57 |
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| daemontool | not from me | 14:57 |
| ddieterly | hpe folks have a standup in a couple of mins | 14:57 |
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| szaher | ah guys the upgrade to falcon middleware is merged so you can submit changes to freezer-api | 14:58 |
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| ddieterly | szaher cool | 14:58 |
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| szaher | and If you have a change upstream please, submit a recheck | 14:58 |
| ddieterly | daemontool hugs back to you | 14:58 |
| daemontool | szaher, brilliant | 14:58 |
| daemontool | ddieterly, not from the back please, that doesn't look good | 14:58 |
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| daemontool | lol | 14:58 |
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| ddieterly | daemontool ok, you can stop the double entendre please | 14:59 |
| daemontool | thanks all | 14:59 |
| ddieterly | ciao everybody! | 14:59 |
| szaher | ciao ciao :) | 14:59 |
| clsacramento | daemontool: a presto! | 14:59 |
| ddieterly | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 19 15:00:01 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-05-19-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-05-19-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-05-19-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
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| bswartz | #startmeeting manila | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 19 15:00:19 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:00 |
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| toabctl | hi | 15:00 |
| cknight1 | Hi | 15:00 |
| gouthamr | hello o/ | 15:00 |
| bswartz | hello | 15:00 |
| ganso | hello | 15:00 |
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| tpsilva | hello | 15:00 |
| aovchinnikov | hi | 15:00 |
| sgotliv_ | o/ | 15:00 |
| jseiler | hi | 15:00 |
| dustins | hey \o | 15:00 |
| xyang2 | hi | 15:00 |
| vponomaryov | Hello | 15:00 |
| markstur_ | hi | 15:01 |
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| zhongjun_ | hi | 15:01 |
| bswartz | #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings#Next_meeting | 15:01 |
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| bswartz | just a few leftover discussion topics from design summit | 15:01 |
| bswartz | I'll save those for after the specific topics people proposed | 15:02 |
| bswartz | #topic share backup | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "share backup (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:02 | |
| bswartz | zhongjun_: you're up | 15:02 |
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| zhongjun_ | thanks | 15:02 |
| zhongjun_ | I saw the record about discussion share backup. but it is not a conculution. | 15:02 |
| tbarron | hi | 15:03 |
| bswartz | which discussion? | 15:03 |
| zhongjun_ | so, There are two ideas(Not very detailed, just a direction) for the share backups, please see which one is suitable for manila? | 15:03 |
| zhongjun_ | or which one is definite not suitable for manila. | 15:03 |
| bswartz | we haven't discussed share backup in details since the winder midcycle meetup | 15:03 |
| zhongjun_ | 1. Smaug(openstack project)+Manila+Swift(or something else) | 15:03 |
| zhongjun_ | Use swift as a smaug's backup plugin, Use smaug calling manila's APIs(such as share-list, share-instances-export-location) to obtain share information. then creating a backup in smaug. | 15:03 |
| zhongjun_ | 2. Add backup APIs in Manila Data service, let manila own have backup capacity. | 15:03 |
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| bswartz | personally I see both options as valuable | 15:04 |
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| bswartz | given that (2) will be a lot of work it seems like (1) is more likely to happen sooner | 15:05 |
| mkoderer | hi | 15:05 |
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| zhongjun_ | The benifit of use first idea: it not only backup share but also backup manila config and database, etc. | 15:05 |
| ganso | it seems to me that the development in (1) is creating a plugin in Smaug | 15:05 |
| sgotliv_ | does it mean we recommend to use Smaug for manila backups? | 15:06 |
| bswartz | I don't know enough about smaug yet to understand what it can do for a project like manila | 15:07 |
| tbarron | is (1) written up somewhere so we can study it in more detail? | 15:07 |
| dustins | tbarron: +1 | 15:07 |
| bswartz | however if they have ideas for backing up shared file systems I think we should be supportive and helpful | 15:07 |
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| mkoderer | how is this related to freezer? https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Freezer | 15:08 |
| bswartz | I also don't know anything about freezer | 15:08 |
| sgotliv_ | I believe smaug compete with freezer | 15:08 |
| sgotliv_ | I am kind of learning them both these days | 15:08 |
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| bswartz | I believe that regardless of what backup or DR services are built on top of Manila, users will get a better experience if we build backup / DR features into manila itself | 15:08 |
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| bswartz | therefore we should do both | 15:09 |
| gouthamr | it would be nice to hash 1) out in a manila-spec (now that we can't create new Wiki pages) | 15:09 |
| mkoderer | ok we have too many projects in OpenStack... | 15:09 |
| zhongjun_ | tbarron: The smaug have a video demo, but I forget the link, I will find it and put it to wiki. | 15:09 |
| gouthamr | i'm also interested in restore :) | 15:09 |
| bswartz | share replication was designed with that belief in mind | 15:09 |
| sgotliv_ | mkoderer, +1 | 15:09 |
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| zhongjun_ | link: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/smaug | 15:09 |
| sgotliv_ | i can post a link later | 15:09 |
| sgotliv_ | lol | 15:09 |
| sgotliv_ | zhongjun_, thanks | 15:09 |
| dustins | mkoderer: +1 | 15:09 |
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| zhongjun_ | gouthamr: In smaug, use heat to restore openstack environment. | 15:10 |
| bswartz | when we discussed share backup at the midcycle one of the arguments against doing it was that many other backup tools exist and many of those are going to be way better than anything we build into manila unless we spend large amounts of time on a manila backup feature | 15:10 |
| xyang2 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tVYuW_YMB8 | 15:11 |
| bswartz | I still think it's worth developing some kind of backup framework with minimal capabilities just to have a standard interface | 15:11 |
| xyang2 | smaug | 15:11 |
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| dustins | and if we have projects that provide backup functionality, why reinvent the wheel? | 15:11 |
| zhongjun_ | xyang2: thanks xyang | 15:11 |
| bswartz | but we won't be able to compete with other solutions that focus 100% on backup | 15:11 |
| toabctl | dustins: +1 | 15:12 |
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| sgotliv_ | I believe these projects use API provided by backed component | 15:12 |
| ganso | if there is an openstack service and is focused on it, a plugin for it makes sense | 15:12 |
| dustins | ganso: +1 | 15:13 |
| ganso | they would be reinventing the wheel, not us hehe | 15:13 |
| bswartz | dustins: there are some kinds of things that can only be done properly with low level access to the storage -- the kind of thing that requires code in the storage drivers to implement | 15:13 |
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| tbarron | zhongjun_: i'm a little bit familiar with smaug but i haven't seen anything about filesystem backup in particular yet | 15:13 |
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| bswartz | those can only be implemented as features in projects that have storage drivers (AKA cinder, manila, glance, etc) | 15:13 |
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| zhongjun_ | tbarron: It will, I will do | 15:13 |
| bswartz | services that layer on top of these services will be limited in what they can achieve through the common interface | 15:14 |
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| dustins | bswartz: Indeed, tricky to balance a general approach versus exposing value in the underlying storage back end | 15:14 |
| bswartz | that's why I say we should do both | 15:14 |
| ganso | bswartz: I wouldn't say only done properly in the backend, but more efficiently in most cases. Backup can still be done properly through the storage interface (NFS shares for instance) | 15:14 |
| tbarron | zhongjun_: i'd be interested in seeing a spec for integration with smaug | 15:14 |
| bswartz | ganso: you probably recall some people at the migration talk in austin saying it was important to them that their backups were bit-exact | 15:15 |
| zhongjun_ | bswartz: +1 | 15:15 |
| dustins | tbarron: ditto | 15:15 |
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| bswartz | that kind of guarantee can only be provided at the storage driver level -- you can't do that in a generalized way | 15:15 |
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| tbarron | in cinder's case i believe smaug intends to use standard cinder api which allows for backend driver optimizations | 15:16 |
| zhongjun_ | tbarron, dustins: Oh, that's sounds good. | 15:16 |
| tbarron | for volume backup | 15:16 |
| dustins | Hmm, perhaps we could do a Smaug-based solution just to cover everything for now, then we can add the "special sauce" in another release? | 15:16 |
| tbarron | for dbase backup, etc., difft story | 15:16 |
| bswartz | tbarron: backups of volumes is fundamentally easier than backups of file systems | 15:16 |
| tbarron | bswartz: +1 | 15:17 |
| tbarron | for filesystems we have metadata issues like with migration | 15:17 |
| bswartz | zhongjun_: did we answer you qusetion? | 15:17 |
| tbarron | for one thiing | 15:17 |
| bswartz | question* | 15:18 |
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| zhongjun_ | bswartz: yes, the answer is two idea is ok? | 15:18 |
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| zhongjun_ | s/idea/ideas | 15:18 |
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| bswartz | yes I don't want to discourage either approach | 15:19 |
| bswartz | if people want to work on both, then that's great | 15:19 |
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| bswartz | personally I'd like to spend time on manila backup -- there are just too many other important problems to solve first | 15:19 |
| zhongjun_ | bswartz: That's great, thanks | 15:19 |
| bswartz | let's move on | 15:19 |
| bswartz | #topic snapshot restore | 15:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "snapshot restore (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:19 | |
| cknight1 | I'm working on the Snapshot Restore feature we agreed to at Summit. | 15:19 |
| bswartz | cknight1: you're up | 15:20 |
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| cknight1 | I had a working POC before we left Austin, and the spec is in review. | 15:20 |
| cknight1 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/315695/ | 15:20 |
| bswartz | do people like the name "Snapshot restore" better than "revert to snapshot"? | 15:20 |
| cknight1 | Most of it seems non-controversial, but there is a question about the REST API. | 15:20 |
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| cknight1 | bswartz: Your question is germane to mine! | 15:20 |
| cknight1 | There are two objects involved, the share being reverted, and the snapshot being restored. | 15:20 |
| cknight1 | In any case, the API must be explicit about which snapshot is being restored. | 15:21 |
| bswartz | when I think of restoring snapshots I imagine creating a new share from a snapshot | 15:21 |
| vponomaryov | +1 for "revert to snapshot" | 15:21 |
| cknight1 | If the API is on the share, then the snapshot must be specified in the body. | 15:21 |
| bswartz | when I think of reverting to a snapshot I think of modifying an existing share | 15:21 |
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| ganso | cknight1: +1 for "snapshot restore" | 15:22 |
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| cknight1 | If the API is on the snapshot, then the share need not be specified because Manila can infer it from the snapshot. | 15:22 |
| cknight1 | I chose the latter because it is simpler to invoke, it matches the GUI tools I'm familiar with where the restore action is on the snapshot, and the client code is smaller. | 15:22 |
| bswartz | can't the action be on the snapshot but we call it something like snapshot revert? | 15:22 |
| markstur_ | bswartz, +1 (the 2 names suggest different meanings) | 15:22 |
| cknight1 | But in the extremely unlikely case where the API layer can find the specified snapshot but not the share, the server would have to return a 500 because something went very wrong in the server. I'm not aware of any code that returns 500-series errors today, so it would be something new. | 15:22 |
| bswartz | revert makes is obvious that you're going backwards | 15:22 |
| ganso | cknight1: also, you don't need to touch the share API since this is mostly a change to snapshots API | 15:23 |
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| cknight1 | bswartz: That's true. Personally, I don't feel strongly about it. | 15:23 |
| zhongjun_ | cknight1: +1 for "snapshot restore/revert" | 15:23 |
| vponomaryov | action is applied to a share, it should be "shares" API | 15:23 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: if we do that then the caller has to specify the share ID in the URL and the snapshot ID in the body | 15:24 |
| bswartz | that's more work for the caller than just specifying the snapshot ID in the URL | 15:24 |
| ganso | bswartz: in fact no, we agreed we always revert to latest | 15:24 |
| vponomaryov | why? | 15:24 |
| vponomaryov | we allow only latest snapshot | 15:24 |
| vponomaryov | no need to provide it | 15:24 |
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| vponomaryov | ganso: ) | 15:24 |
| ganso | bswartz: so, if we do not need to do /snapshots/snapshot-id/restore, then it makes sense to be /shares/share-id/revert | 15:24 |
| ganso | revert will know what to do | 15:24 |
| bswartz | well the user has to specify which snapshot he expects to be restored in case a new shapshot call races with the revert call | 15:25 |
| ganso | because it is the latest | 15:25 |
| ganso | bswartz: we should avoid such races | 15:25 |
| bswartz | that sort of race is unavoidable | 15:25 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: who will create snapshots when it should be reverted? | 15:25 |
| bswartz | if I list the snapshots, then invoke share revert, and another snapshot was taken between those 2 operations, I might be very confused | 15:25 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: it is not use case | 15:25 |
| xyang2 | since we are modifying the share, shares api seems more appropriate | 15:26 |
| bswartz | in that case we would at least need to return the UUID of the snapshot we did revert to | 15:26 |
| bswartz | if the caller doesn't specify it | 15:26 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: return some data - ok | 15:27 |
| bswartz | to prevent surprises | 15:27 |
| dustins | Yeah, something just saying "I used this snapshot to restore from" would be handy | 15:27 |
| cknight1 | bswartz: We're changing data, so I think the API should be very explicit about what snapshot is being restored. | 15:27 |
| toabctl | cknight1: +1 | 15:27 |
| dustins | cknight1: agreed | 15:27 |
| cknight1 | bswartz: I don't think the server should pick the latest one itself, since that can lead to a surprise. | 15:27 |
| bswartz | yeah I lean towards explicitness so we can report more accurate errors | 15:27 |
| toabctl | and there can be 2 admins + one creating a new snapshot and one reverting | 15:28 |
| cknight1 | bswartz: In my POC, I check that the specified snapshot is actually the latest one. | 15:28 |
| vponomaryov | cknight1: manila can store value of latest snapshot in share model | 15:28 |
| dustins | Yes, that way we can error out saying that the snapshot specified was not the most recent | 15:28 |
| ganso | cknight1, bswartz: why wouldn't share's status prevent this scenario? if we have statuses with locks | 15:28 |
| bswartz | worst case is you get an error | 15:28 |
| vponomaryov | cknight1: that can be visible via "share show" | 15:28 |
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| bswartz | ganso there is unknown time between when an admin looks at the list of snapshots and invokes the revert call | 15:28 |
| bswartz | it could be seconds or minutes or hours | 15:28 |
| ganso | bswartz: if a snapshot is created, even though it is in "Creating" then it is latest, but share status will be "snapshotting" | 15:28 |
| ganso | bswartz: oh I see, two users under the same tenant | 15:29 |
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| bswartz | yes | 15:29 |
| ganso | bswartz: like, one user is taking a snapshot and the other is reverting | 15:29 |
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| toabctl | ganso: yes | 15:29 |
| bswartz | if that were to happen, the revert call should error out explaining that the specified snapshot is no longer the latest snapshot | 15:29 |
| ganso | bswartz: so if we need the snapshot parameter there is no real advantage between usage of either API | 15:29 |
| bswartz | then the admins can get together and figure out what they want to do | 15:29 |
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| cknight1 | So what I'm hearing is that most feel this should be an action on the share as far as the REST API is concerned. | 15:30 |
| bswartz | I'm hearing though that for semantic reasons people prefer it's a share action | 15:30 |
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| bswartz | cknight1: yes definitely | 15:30 |
| cknight1 | And the CLI should be 'revert-to-snapshot' instead of 'snapshot-restore'. Right? | 15:30 |
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| bswartz | it might be slightly less RESTful but it's more clear what's going on | 15:30 |
| markstur__ | +1 | 15:31 |
| dustins | "restore this share to this snapshot" rather than "with this snapshot restore this share" | 15:31 |
| ganso | cknight1: +1 | 15:31 |
| vponomaryov | cknight1: +1 | 15:31 |
| bswartz | yes revert-to-snapshot seems very clear | 15:31 |
| dustins | cknight1: +1 | 15:31 |
| cknight1 | OK, I'll make it happen. Thanks, everyone! | 15:31 |
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| bswartz | the revert-to-latest-snapshot (with no snapshot arg) is also interesting but a little scary to me | 15:31 |
| cknight1 | bswartz: yes, too scary | 15:32 |
| bswartz | okay | 15:32 |
| bswartz | let's move on | 15:32 |
| bswartz | #topic specs | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "specs (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:32 | |
| bswartz | ganso asked earlier today about spec deadlines, and requirements for specs | 15:33 |
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| bswartz | I don't believe we agreed on any deadlines, or requirements for specs | 15:33 |
| bswartz | we have the specs repo, and people are already using it, which is great | 15:33 |
| ganso | ok so bswartz and I were discussing today about specs priority, I think it is a good idea that N1 has specs prioritized because if we are following this idea of working with specs, specs block implementation if they are not approved | 15:33 |
| bswartz | however where we left things in Austin was that specs are still optional and we encourage them but don't require them | 15:34 |
| bswartz | for the purpose of reviews I do think ganso has a point | 15:34 |
| tbarron | we need to avoid being too waterfall here, it would be good to be able to refine specs and refine code in parallel | 15:34 |
| bswartz | if a developer is waiting for feedback on his ideas before writing the code then we should prioritize reviewing the spec and providing the feedback | 15:35 |
| markstur__ | +1 for in parallel | 15:35 |
| tbarron | where the code doesn't get merged in the end if it diverges significantly from spec | 15:35 |
| ganso | I think they should not be enforced, according to what we discussed in Austin, it seems the main value of specs for Manila, is to have feedback on design and implementation before investing a lot of work in it and having to change too late in the cycle | 15:35 |
| bswartz | we shouldn't force developers to wait, but in ganso's case it sounds like he doesn't want to start coding the wrong thing | 15:35 |
| tbarron | understood | 15:36 |
| ganso | there are proposals that do not need specs, or that they may not need too much feedback or refining | 15:36 |
| xyang2 | if we could get code merged before spec is merged, that will be better, so spec will not be out of sync with code | 15:36 |
| ganso | so specs aggregate more if they used | 15:36 |
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| ganso | xyang2: that would be good also, but then we need to consider the spec approved even though not merged | 15:37 |
| bswartz | ganso: in the past the way we've stimulated feedback was to bring up specific topics during these weekly meetings and ask for feedback | 15:37 |
| xyang2 | ganso: yes, it is tricky | 15:37 |
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| xyang2 | ganso: the code will almost always go out of sync with spec if spec is merged first | 15:38 |
| bswartz | ganso: if you're looking for feedback on your spec I suggest we just bring it up here and agree to give you yes or no decisions by some date | 15:38 |
| ganso | bswartz: sometimes people find out that they disagree with design or find a potential flaw when we are too close to FF | 15:38 |
| xyang2 | ganso: but if spec is not merged, people may not want to +2 the code | 15:38 |
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| mkoderer | I would merge specs and after that merge the code and update documentation accorindgly | 15:38 |
| bswartz | okay let's not get too wrapped up in the meaning of a merged spec | 15:39 |
| bswartz | I think we agreed that we can modify specs after they're merged | 15:39 |
| ganso | xyang2: then we need a social rule for this, so it makes sense and we do not get stuck not being able to merge a code because spec was not merged hehe | 15:39 |
| mkoderer | I don't see any issue in outdated specs as long the documenation is up to date | 15:39 |
| xyang2 | mkoderer: that's fine too. just need to remember to update the spec afterwards | 15:39 |
| ganso | mkoderer: +1 | 15:39 |
| bswartz | I dislike the ceremonial "merging of the spec" to mean that the idea is somehow blessed and approved | 15:39 |
| vponomaryov | mkoderer: docs up-to-date is utopia | 15:39 |
| xyang2 | ganso: agree | 15:39 |
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| tbarron | bswartz: +1 | 15:40 |
| mkoderer | vponomaryov: would also mean: spec up-to-date is utopia ;) | 15:40 |
| bswartz | I think we should try to reach consensus and merge specs but that shouldn't be the end of the discussion | 15:40 |
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| tbarron | i'm just saying look at the spec before the code merges, ask questions about divergence, etc. | 15:40 |
| tbarron | use our heads | 15:40 |
| ganso | bswartz: I think this "ceremony" is needed, else devs won't be required to review the spec at all, and their value will be diminished | 15:40 |
| dustins | tbarron: +1 | 15:40 |
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| ganso | this is similar situation with blueprints | 15:41 |
| tbarron | ganso: we can build a culture that does the right thing w/o having to make formal process IMO | 15:41 |
| bswartz | ganso: yes we need people to know that feedback is more welcome earlier than later | 15:41 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: "merge" is kind of proof | 15:41 |
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| bswartz | we have a history of people ignoring features until 2 weeks before feature freeze then dropping a whole bunch of feedback | 15:41 |
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| bswartz | that's not a good experience for contributors | 15:42 |
| ganso | bswartz: yes, specs cannot solve that by itself, it is more of a cultural thing | 15:42 |
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| tbarron | and a history of big code drops late, right? | 15:42 |
| bswartz | okay so here's a proposal | 15:42 |
| ganso | so my idea of emphasizing "priority" is to address this | 15:42 |
| ganso | no deadlines | 15:42 |
| ganso | just priorities | 15:42 |
| bswartz | if people post a spec, and ask for feedback, we should prioritize reviewing the spec and giving feedback early (before first milestone as ganso says) | 15:43 |
| mkoderer | btw we have already some specs in gerrit for review.. can we put some priority to review them? ;) | 15:44 |
| bswartz | people who fail to review specs shouldn't propose major changes later on in the release | 15:44 |
| xyang2 | bswartz: define major changes:) | 15:44 |
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| bswartz | xyang2: something which should have caught in the spec review | 15:44 |
| vponomaryov | xyang2: good catch! )) | 15:44 |
| bswartz | sometimes you can't see why you don't like something until you see the implementation | 15:45 |
| mkoderer | bswartz: so true :) | 15:45 |
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| bswartz | but in many cases you can see objectionable things in the spec and the right time to object to those is before the code is written | 15:45 |
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| markstur__ | disagreements in specs need to get resolved before code merges | 15:46 |
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| gouthamr | markstur__: yes.. | 15:47 |
| markstur__ | Nits in specs -- shouldn't be a roadblock | 15:47 |
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| bswartz | also (and I've seen this with specs I've written) sometimes you just get really helpful suggestions in the spec review which make implementation go more smoothly | 15:47 |
| bswartz | believe it or not, other people have good ideas | 15:47 |
| markstur__ | Also code POC before spec is decided is still a good idea if coder is OK w/ POC | 15:47 |
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| markstur__ | but that isn't supposed to change the spec process (just adds proof) | 15:48 |
| tbarron | markstur__: +1 correct spelling, etc. but don't -1 for it alone | 15:48 |
| bswartz | wait a minute | 15:48 |
| ganso | tbarron: nits shouldn't -1 | 15:48 |
| bswartz | spelling errors should be fixed -- that's what -1 is for | 15:48 |
| mkoderer | markstur__: yeah I really like POC code in the same time with spechs | 15:49 |
| bswartz | it's not hard to just fix it and move on | 15:49 |
| gouthamr | or you can fix it if it's not too much of a bother? | 15:49 |
| mkoderer | bswartz: I wouldn't block a merge just because two spelling nits | 15:49 |
| tbarron | well I see a lot of negative energy going into that kind of thing | 15:49 |
| bswartz | right we can always +2 over a -1 | 15:49 |
| tbarron | I do think we should fix them | 15:49 |
| ganso | tbarron: they become obsolete | 15:49 |
| bswartz | but that's doesn't mean we shouldn't post the -1 review | 15:49 |
| tbarron | but note them as nits, fix, etc. | 15:49 |
| ganso | tbarron: the documentation should be have perfect spelling | 15:49 |
| ganso | tbarron: s/be have/have | 15:50 |
| tbarron | ok, well we got that away. | 15:50 |
| tbarron | out of the way -1 | 15:50 |
| gouthamr | ganso: true.. but what stops the reviewer from helping out and fixing the documentation for spelling errors? | 15:50 |
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| xyang2 | bswartz: so we don't require spec to be merged before code merged? | 15:50 |
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| gouthamr | the docs team does this.. don't -1, just edit and help merge | 15:50 |
| gouthamr | ^ if minor | 15:50 |
| ganso | gouthamr: nothing, spelling mistakes are welcome to be pointed out, some people learn from it, but not worth -1 | 15:51 |
| bswartz | xyang2: not currently -- we could decide to change that (probably for ocata though given we're already well into newton) | 15:51 |
| xyang2 | ok | 15:51 |
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| tbarron | gouthamr: i like that b/c now when I do -1 it means something | 15:51 |
| tbarron | but we can play the game either way :) | 15:51 |
| bswartz | okay ganso: do you want to provide a link to your spec before we move on? | 15:51 |
| ganso | bswartz: sure, thanks! | 15:52 |
| ganso | #link https://review.openstack.org/315707 | 15:52 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: ofcourse, don't fix functionality, just fix 'teh' to 'the' or 'hence' to 'thus' :) | 15:52 |
| bswartz | #action everyone review ganso's ^ spec! | 15:52 |
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| bswartz | #topic UI customization | 15:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "UI customization (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:52 | |
| tbarron | sgotliv may have had to drop | 15:53 |
| ganso | gouthamr: you don't like "hence" ? :( | 15:53 |
| tbarron | late there | 15:53 |
| tbarron | but | 15:53 |
| tbarron | we have two issues where a customer has requested | 15:53 |
| tbarron | more customizalbe ui. | 15:53 |
| gouthamr | ganso: i've had US/british grammar checks happen wayy too often :) | 15:53 |
| tbarron | they run a public cloud | 15:53 |
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| vponomaryov | tbarron: manila in public cloud? nice! | 15:54 |
| tbarron | they down't want pulldowns for protocols that don't exist in their cloud | 15:54 |
| bswartz | british english > US english | 15:54 |
| ganso | bswartz: +1 | 15:54 |
| * bswartz listens to the BBC too much... | 15:54 | |
| gouthamr | ^ well, i for one agree | 15:54 |
| tbarron | if they don't have cifs of hdfs then they don't want their paying tenants to complain b/c they are in the ui and not availiable | 15:54 |
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| bswartz | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-manila-contributor-meetup | 15:55 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: nice use case.. | 15:55 |
| tbarron | we have enabled_protocols in manila.conf so that seems a reasonable request to me. | 15:55 |
| tbarron | any issue? | 15:55 |
| bswartz | if you see in the etherpad, vponomaryov commented about the possiblity of a new API to support this use case | 15:55 |
| vponomaryov | tbarron: no issue, I like idea | 15:55 |
| ganso | tbarron: don't we already disable these through manila.conf ? "enabled_share_protocols" or something? | 15:55 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: but i was under the impression people don't use vanilla manila-ui or manilaclient | 15:55 |
| bswartz | I support the idea of the API | 15:55 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: no APIs | 15:55 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: they change the CSS sheet :-) | 15:55 |
| vponomaryov | ganso: yet | 15:55 |
| bswartz | it would be very useful for any tools built on top of manila to know which protocols are available | 15:56 |
| tbarron | ok, we can work on that issue | 15:56 |
| tbarron | #2. | 15:56 |
| bswartz | tbarron: do we need anything more than that single API for that use case? | 15:56 |
| cknight1 | bswartz: It's possible now via the pools list API. | 15:56 |
| cknight1 | bswartz: The scheduler has all that information. | 15:56 |
| bswartz | cknight1: that's admin only | 15:56 |
| cknight1 | bswartz: true | 15:57 |
| bswartz | we need ordinary tenants to know which protocols are available | 15:57 |
| bswartz | preferably without giving away all the pool details | 15:57 |
| cknight1 | bswartz: So what else might a user or GUI need to know? | 15:57 |
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| gouthamr | bswartz: scheduler stats can be improved, we only have GET pools and GET /detail on pools | 15:57 |
| vponomaryov | cknight1: to know type of access and its level | 15:58 |
| bswartz | perhaps a mapping of protocols to share types or share types to protocols in case not every protocol is compatible with every share type | 15:58 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: we can easily add this tenant facing API to the same suite | 15:58 |
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| gouthamr | bswartz: or a filter to the existing API | 15:58 |
| cknight1 | bswartz: Point being, if we must add an API, we can design an extensible Manila capabilities API for adding such things. | 15:58 |
| bswartz | or we could even make the protocol list just extra data on the share type list APIs | 15:59 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: i think that's the way we were thinking | 15:59 |
| tbarron | maybe we can do incremental refinement here | 15:59 |
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| tbarron | ready for #2? | 15:59 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: agree.. | 15:59 |
| bswartz | we just return a list of supported protocols for each share type when you list the share types | 15:59 |
| cknight1 | tbarron: time check | 15:59 |
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| bswartz | then it's a change to an existing API instead of a brand new API | 15:59 |
| ganso | tbarron: I am curious for #2 | 15:59 |
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| tbarron | today when you create a share you get a make visible for all checkbox | 16:00 |
| bswartz | altough I'm not sure we have the raw data for that anywhere | 16:00 |
| tbarron | they want to be able to turn that off | 16:00 |
| markstur__ | there's a #2? | 16:00 |
| gouthamr | beep beep beep | 16:00 |
| gouthamr | 12:00 | 16:00 |
| tbarron | markstur__: yeah, i said 2 things | 16:00 |
| ganso | gouthamr: lol | 16:00 |
| markstur__ | cliffhanger | 16:00 |
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| tbarron | continue in channel | 16:00 |
| gouthamr | hahaa | 16:00 |
| bswartz | okay | 16:00 |
| bswartz | thanks all | 16:00 |
| markstur__ | to be continued... | 16:00 |
| ganso | gouthamr: lunch time | 16:00 |
| bswartz | we ran out of time | 16:00 |
| bswartz | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 19 16:00:42 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-05-19-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-05-19-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-05-19-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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| xarses | #startmeeting fuel | 16:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 19 16:02:19 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is xarses. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| xarses | #chair xarses | 16:02 |
| xarses | Todays Agenda: | 16:02 |
| xarses | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fuel-weekly-meeting-agenda | 16:02 |
| xarses | Who's here? | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'fuel' | 16:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: xarses | 16:02 |
| xarses | sorry about that folks | 16:02 |
| mwhahaha | hi | 16:02 |
| kozhukalov | hello | 16:02 |
| vsakharov | hi | 16:02 |
| akislitsky__ | hi | 16:02 |
| gardlt | heelo | 16:02 |
| sslypushenko | o/ | 16:02 |
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| EZPZ | o/ | 16:02 |
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| gomarivera | hi | 16:03 |
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| xarses | There are no action items from last week, moving on to general topics | 16:03 |
| ashtokolov | o/ | 16:03 |
| xarses | #topic using reno for release notes (xarses) | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "using reno for release notes (xarses) (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:03 | |
| aglarendil | +1 | 16:03 |
| xarses | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/093849.html | 16:03 |
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| xarses | There was no feedback on the mail thead I raised | 16:04 |
| xarses | Since its in response to the discussions we already had at summit, I'm going to push patches to start setting this up | 16:04 |
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| kozhukalov | lazy consensus, we'd better use every tool that could make our life better | 16:05 |
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| xarses | that's my thought | 16:05 |
| xarses | #topic Mixed team status (sslypushenko) | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mixed team status (sslypushenko) (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:06 | |
| sslypushenko | Mixed team is working on bugfixing | 16:06 |
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| sslypushenko | That is mainly it | 16:06 |
| kozhukalov | nice )) | 16:06 |
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| kozhukalov | is there any particular info? | 16:06 |
| xarses | any stats, thoughts for next cycle? | 16:06 |
| lhinds | sorry for being late (and Hi!) | 16:07 |
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| mattymo | (also late and hi) | 16:07 |
| sslypushenko | Mixed team is moving out from working on Fuel | 16:07 |
| xarses | ok | 16:07 |
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| sslypushenko | so we are just finishing our current assigned work | 16:07 |
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| kozhukalov | what was the motivation to add this topic to agenda if there is no any particular info? | 16:08 |
| holser | o/ | 16:08 |
| sslypushenko | It is kind of duty | 16:08 |
| kozhukalov | no it is not | 16:09 |
| xarses | #topic UI Team status (vkramskikh) | 16:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "UI Team status (vkramskikh) (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:09 | |
| vkramskikh | Hi! We're still working on bugs. We have 5 High bugs left. 4 of them have fixes on review, though we're experiencing some issues with OpenStack infra - our gating job fails in 90% cases, so it's barely possible to merge anything. OpenStack infra guys are trying to identify the root cause of the issues. | 16:09 |
| vkramskikh | As for Newton acitvities, the scope is still not defined, so we'll work on tech tebt once we deal with the remaining bugs. | 16:09 |
| vkramskikh | We'll also try to find time to help with the new OpenStack JS-related projects - js-generator-openstack (cookiecutter for JS) and js-openstack (JS-based OpenStack API client library). | 16:09 |
| vkramskikh | Questions? | 16:09 |
| xarses | nice, good to see collaboration there | 16:10 |
| kozhukalov | thanks vkramskikh | 16:11 |
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| xarses | #topic Telco Team Status (vsakharov) | 16:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Telco Team Status (vsakharov) (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:11 | |
| vsakharov | Our team continues fixing bugs: | 16:11 |
| vsakharov | Done from the last update - 6 | 16:11 |
| vsakharov | In progress (in development and on review) - 9 | 16:11 |
| vsakharov | Also we're started scoping features for 10.0, but since we started it just today there is no significant update to report. | 16:11 |
| vsakharov | Maybe you have any questions? | 16:11 |
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| kozhukalov | there is no clear scope for Newton yet | 16:12 |
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| kozhukalov | unfortunately | 16:12 |
| vsakharov | I guess, more info about Newton will be on the next week | 16:13 |
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| xarses | #topic open discuss | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discuss (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:14 | |
| xarses | anything else to raise or discuss? | 16:14 |
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| xarses | ok, thanks guys | 16:15 |
| xarses | #endmeeting | 16:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:15 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 19 16:15:38 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:15 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2016/fuel.2016-05-19-16.02.html | 16:15 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2016/fuel.2016-05-19-16.02.txt | 16:15 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2016/fuel.2016-05-19-16.02.log.html | 16:15 |
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| tmcpeak | #startmeeting security | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 19 17:00:14 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tmcpeak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | o/ | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'security' | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | #chair hyakuhei | 17:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: hyakuhei tmcpeak | 17:00 |
| gmurphy_ | o/ | 17:00 |
| tkelsey | o/ | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-agenda | 17:00 |
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| elmiko | o/ | 17:01 |
| mdong | o/ | 17:01 |
| michaelxin | o/ | 17:01 |
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| diazjf1 | o/ | 17:01 |
| tmcpeak | hi everybody | 17:02 |
| tmcpeak | please have a look at the agenda and add anything if you want | 17:02 |
| tmcpeak | otherwise we' | 17:02 |
| tmcpeak | we'll get rolling in a minute or two | 17:02 |
| hyakuhei | o/ | 17:02 |
| lhinds | hi everyone | 17:02 |
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| hyakuhei | I’m about 50% here. Will be 100% here in a few minutes. | 17:02 |
| tmcpeak | hey lhinds | 17:02 |
| lhinds | hey tmcpeak | 17:02 |
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| tmcpeak | I pinged nkinder, if we can get him to join I'll move the OSSN to match his schedule | 17:03 |
| tmcpeak | meanwhile, let's roll it | 17:03 |
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| tmcpeak | #topic Anchor | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Anchor (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:04 | |
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| tmcpeak | tkelsey: you might be the one today | 17:04 |
| tmcpeak | don't see Mr. Chivers | 17:04 |
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| tkelsey | humm, well i got nothing on my radar | 17:04 |
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| ccneill | o/ | 17:04 |
| tmcpeak | easy enough | 17:04 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Bandit | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bandit (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:04 | |
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| tmcpeak | probably not much here either, huh? | 17:04 |
| dg___ | o/ | 17:05 |
| tmcpeak | ahh, Chivers | 17:05 |
| tmcpeak | you have anything you want to say on Anchor or no? | 17:05 |
| tkelsey | nope, quiet times | 17:05 |
| tkelsey | bandit ^ | 17:05 |
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| dg___ | ditto, not touched anchor this week. soon | 17:05 |
| tmcpeak | cool easy enough | 17:05 |
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| tmcpeak | I'll tell you where there aren't quiet times | 17:05 |
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| tmcpeak | #topic Syntribos | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Syntribos (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:05 | |
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| tmcpeak | nkinder: thank you for joining | 17:06 |
| nkinder | tmcpeak: sure | 17:06 |
| tmcpeak | we'll have the Syntribos team do an update and OSSN is next up | 17:06 |
| michaelxin | mdong: go ahead | 17:06 |
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| mdong | so this past week we’ve done a deep dive into improving our tests | 17:06 |
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| mdong | we’ve taken a second pass on our current security test cases, mostly to streamline them and reduce false positives | 17:07 |
| mdong | rahulunair and vinaypotluri have also been working on creating new test cases | 17:07 |
| tmcpeak | awesome | 17:08 |
| tmcpeak | I see tons of activity in the channel | 17:08 |
| ccneill | we'll be doing another design session soon to tackle some architectural changes we're contemplating, including removing OpenCAFE and changing the way we detect "failures" | 17:08 |
| ccneill | i.e. making it easier to write further test cases | 17:08 |
| ccneill | thanks to elmiko I think we have a pretty good idea of what a transition to oslo.logging and oslo.config will look like from CAFE components | 17:09 |
| michaelxin | We are using the broken API that we talked before as our test bed. | 17:09 |
| michaelxin | The running against the broken API should start this week. | 17:09 |
| ccneill | yes, we should be running all our basic tests against that API by next week | 17:09 |
| ccneill | but yeah, we'll start today/tomorrow | 17:10 |
| tmcpeak | how are you guys running it, just manually? | 17:10 |
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| rhallisey | hello. Sorry I'm late | 17:10 |
| ccneill | yeah, local environment | 17:10 |
| tmcpeak | you guys have tox or something to pull down broken API and run Syntribos against it? | 17:10 |
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| tmcpeak | that would be cool, kind of like Syntribos functional tests | 17:10 |
| ccneill | yeah we might do that | 17:10 |
| ccneill | probably better than bundling it into the repo itself | 17:11 |
| michaelxin | That would be cool. | 17:11 |
| ccneill | haven't gotten to that point just yet | 17:11 |
| ccneill | but it's doable | 17:11 |
| tmcpeak | would make a cool demo | 17:11 |
| michaelxin | Currently, the broken api is running use docker tool | 17:11 |
| michaelxin | locally | 17:11 |
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| tmcpeak | I've found running against our bandit examples directory to be the best way to quickly show somebody its value | 17:11 |
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| tmcpeak | would be really cool to get something similar for Syntribos | 17:12 |
| ccneill | yep, we're using the vAPI as our sort of "proof" that we can detect X vulnerabilities | 17:12 |
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| tmcpeak | very cool | 17:12 |
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| ccneill | I think there will be a good synergy between syntribos + bandit too | 17:12 |
| tmcpeak | yeah | 17:12 |
| tmcpeak | I've shown some of the IBM guys and they're really interested | 17:12 |
| ccneill | nice | 17:12 |
| ccneill | in Syntribos? or bandit? | 17:12 |
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| tmcpeak | Syntribos | 17:12 |
| ccneill | sweet | 17:13 |
| ccneill | well hopefully we have something to show off very soon :) | 17:13 |
| tmcpeak | awesome, great work guys | 17:13 |
| ccneill | I think that's about it for now | 17:13 |
| tmcpeak | cool | 17:13 |
| tmcpeak | #topic OSSN | 17:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OSSN (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:13 | |
| tmcpeak | nkinder: around? :) | 17:13 |
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| tmcpeak | hyakuhei: | 17:14 |
| hyakuhei | Hey | 17:14 |
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| tmcpeak | got nkinder to join | 17:14 |
| nkinder | tmcpeak: yep, I'm here | 17:14 |
| tmcpeak | I assume it was you that put you wanted his input on the etherpad, yeah? | 17:14 |
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| hyakuhei | So we’ve spoken a few times about converting or otherwising magicing OSSNs into a more machine-readable / searchable format | 17:14 |
| tmcpeak | yeah talked a bit at the summit about it too | 17:15 |
| nkinder | Yeah, we specifically looked at YAML ni the past | 17:15 |
| hyakuhei | As much as we’d like to fix things with parsing / scripts - I was going to suggest that we have a manual sprint at the summit to change the OSSNs out | 17:15 |
| nkinder | though SCAP would be interesting too | 17:15 |
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| hyakuhei | SCAP gets pretty vendo specific I think | 17:15 |
| hyakuhei | Though some tool that takes OSSN from YAML -> SCAP (with additional content from the person doing the conversion) could be interesting | 17:15 |
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| hyakuhei | So my proposal would be to agree a YAML schema/format before the mid-cycle | 17:16 |
| nkinder | If we agree on a format, I think the conversion won't be too bad | 17:16 |
| lhinds | Guesses are that currently people are manually cherry picking from the notes or the security guide | 17:16 |
| nkinder | I have a tool that was converting to YAML, but we didn't have an exact format that we ever agreed on | 17:16 |
| tmcpeak | I think the original format of OSSN took us pretty far and we've been hesitant to move forward with YAML out of concern for preserving legacy, yeah? | 17:17 |
| hyakuhei | Sounds about right. I think the time is right to move onto something more usable overall | 17:17 |
| tmcpeak | +1 | 17:18 |
| nkinder | Partially that, but we also had a concern that less people would volunteer to write them in YAML (it's more of a barrier to entry) | 17:18 |
| hyakuhei | Search being particularly interesting | 17:18 |
| michaelxin | +1 for searching | 17:18 |
| nkinder | but a parseable format would be nice | 17:18 |
| tmcpeak | there's also an issue for how to handle things like code snippets nicely | 17:18 |
| hyakuhei | Yup that was a concern but nominally it’s either developers or established peoples who are happy to write YAML now. | 17:18 |
| hyakuhei | tmcpeak: Interesting | 17:18 |
| nkinder | yeah, there are a few things that become tough in YAML | 17:19 |
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| hyakuhei | Hmmm. Do the VMT ever run into this problem? gmurphy_ ? | 17:20 |
| nkinder | I have some YAML tools here - https://github.com/nkinder/ossn-tools | 17:20 |
| hyakuhei | I’m open to other formats | 17:20 |
| nkinder | There was some other standard in this area that I looked into at one point | 17:20 |
| hyakuhei | So nkinder. Are you in favor of the move in principle? | 17:20 |
| gmurphy_ | sorry only half watching.. | 17:21 |
| gmurphy_ | what now? | 17:21 |
| tmcpeak | gmurphy_: does VMT run into issues with code snippets in YAML for OSSA? | 17:21 |
| hyakuhei | Do you run into problems with YAML when describing vulns, code snippets etc | 17:21 |
| tmcpeak | and if so, how is it solved? | 17:21 |
| gmurphy_ | we don't include code snippets.. | 17:21 |
| hyakuhei | good lot of use you are gmurphy_ …. | 17:21 |
| gmurphy_ | or haven't historically. | 17:21 |
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| nkinder | hyakuhei: yeah, I'm fine with it. I think there are big benefits if we add a scanning tool | 17:21 |
| tmcpeak | yeah, pain for dealing with code snippets in some cases is less than benefit for creating a searchable format | 17:22 |
| ccneill | one way to solve for code snippets: link out to github commits? | 17:22 |
| nkinder | ...by scanning tool, I mean that a deployer can create a simple config file that says things about their deployment (versions, services used, etc.), then the tool can find all relevant notes | 17:22 |
| tmcpeak | ccneill: that could definitely work in a lot of cases | 17:22 |
| tmcpeak | nkinder: +1 | 17:22 |
| hyakuhei | That being the case nkinder, how involved in the work do you want to be? I’m happy for you to lead the charge or to let it happen, up to you … | 17:22 |
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| nkinder | We could link to a published note on the wiki with code snippets | 17:23 |
| hyakuhei | ccneill: Code snippets tend to be around config changes etc | 17:23 |
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| hyakuhei | YAML needs a “”” type thing from python :D | 17:23 |
| * hyakuhei hides. | 17:23 | |
| nkinder | hyakuhei: I'm happy to be involved, but my time is a bit thin as of late | 17:23 |
| ccneill | hyakuhei: we could just gzip/b64 any text blobs in the YAML? | 17:24 |
| ccneill | ugly as all hell, but if linking out isn't an option, it's something | 17:24 |
| hyakuhei | Righto, so what’s the best way to manage this? Should we start by smashing things into an etherpad? Do we want a security spec to work through the YAML format? | 17:24 |
| ccneill | or maybe link out to a textfile hosted in the same location as the OSSNs | 17:24 |
| nkinder | CVRF was the format I looked into previously | 17:24 |
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| hyakuhei | ccneill: I’d like the YAML to be true YAML i.e human readable. | 17:24 |
| tmcpeak | ccneill: text file link could work | 17:24 |
| tmcpeak | I'd prefer that over B64 | 17:24 |
| ccneill | B64 definitely makes review/human reading (without a tool) harder | 17:25 |
| hyakuhei | Basically I’d like it if it was all native YAML and then we can have tools for cross publishing, making things searchable etc. | 17:25 |
| tmcpeak | well code snippets are pretty central to a fair amount of notes so whatever we get has to address that well | 17:25 |
| hyakuhei | Hmmm, I imagine Ansible may have fixed this, aren’t there playbooks YAML? They must have to do smart things with code. | 17:25 |
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| lhinds | hyakuhei, major is doing a lot there | 17:26 |
| tmcpeak | hyakuhei: not fixed | 17:26 |
| hyakuhei | lol | 17:26 |
| lhinds | we can use the remediation snippets | 17:26 |
| lhinds | as examples | 17:26 |
| tmcpeak | I've had a hard time with getting unedited code in yaml | 17:26 |
| lhinds | there is also a lot of the OSSN stuff in SCAP already | 17:26 |
| lhinds | we borrow back :) | 17:26 |
| tmcpeak | lhinds: link? | 17:26 |
| nkinder | Here's a YAML converted OSSN - http://paste.openstack.org/show/497764/ | 17:26 |
| tmcpeak | this one is easy bc no snippets | 17:27 |
| nkinder | let me find one with snippets... | 17:27 |
| lhinds | https://github.com/OpenSCAP/scap-security-guide/tree/master/OpenStack/RHEL-OSP/7/input/oval | 17:27 |
| tmcpeak | oh yeah, XML | 17:27 |
| nkinder | Here's one with an example snippet - http://paste.openstack.org/show/497765/ | 17:28 |
| tmcpeak | I despise XML but it does tend to handle snippets pretty well | 17:28 |
| lhinds | https://github.com/rackerlabs/openstack-ansible-security | 17:28 |
| nkinder | SCAP is a bit different, because it can deal with actual scanning and remediation with some tools | 17:29 |
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| tmcpeak | nkinder: the snippet here isn't awful | 17:29 |
| nkinder | ...but it needs knowledge about the platform, so it is vendor/platform specific | 17:29 |
| hyakuhei | SCAP gets quite distro specific quite quickly I think | 17:29 |
| tmcpeak | not great but isn't awful either | 17:29 |
| gmurphy_ | what about sticking with the markdown and embedding metadata somehow (maybe like this - https://pythonhosted.org/Markdown/extensions/meta_data.html) | 17:29 |
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| nkinder | so the YAML my utility produces was designed to be able to spit back out the text form we're been publishing | 17:30 |
| nkinder | Maybe that should not be a goal... | 17:30 |
| tmcpeak | nkinder: yeah I think we can relax that constraint | 17:30 |
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| nkinder | I had thought we'd want a human readable form like now, but a YAML form that can be used for parsing | 17:30 |
| tmcpeak | gmurphy_: MD is nice but most of the note would end up being metadata anyway, huh? | 17:30 |
| hyakuhei | nkinder: +1 | 17:30 |
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| nkinder | so some things can be simplified in the YAML if we change the goals | 17:30 |
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| tmcpeak | yep yep | 17:31 |
| nkinder | For example, you can see that I have a separate item for each paragraph in the "description" section | 17:31 |
| michaelxin | What's the goals here again? | 17:31 |
| tmcpeak | goal is easily parseable yet also human readable | 17:31 |
| hyakuhei | Yup | 17:31 |
| ccneill | hmmm.. | 17:31 |
| ccneill | maybe bad idea, but what if we just make a pretty web UI that generates markdown in a VERY specific way | 17:32 |
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| ccneill | and build our own parser for the MD we generate | 17:32 |
| hyakuhei | Though actually being directly human readable is a weak requirement if we have something from which a human readable version can easily be derived | 17:32 |
| nkinder | The direction I was going with this in the past was that YAML would be the canonical format that we commit to the repo | 17:32 |
| gmurphy_ | tmcpeak: but isn't the point to have some way of linking the note to an actual version of openstack deployed. you would only need to a small set of metadata to achieve this. e.g. the whole document wouldn't necessarily need to be machine parseable… | 17:32 |
| hyakuhei | nkinder: +1 | 17:32 |
| nkinder | ...and we can convert to a human readable form to publish on the wiki | 17:32 |
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| nkinder | I didn't focus on making the YAML the readable format | 17:33 |
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| tmcpeak | ok so one question is, do we want to maintain multiple copies of one note or not | 17:33 |
| hyakuhei | We want _all_ the info. In _one_ place. With tools that take that info and make a searchable OSSN DB, a human readable OSSN etc | 17:33 |
| tmcpeak | I would say no | 17:33 |
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| tmcpeak | one shot is either human readable or easily converted to human readable AND contains all the data needed to enable our searches | 17:33 |
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| hyakuhei | So no, the OSSN doesn’t have to be strictly human readable in YAML but I would like it to be self contained so that the published OSSN and various other tooling can all use the same YAML. | 17:34 |
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| nkinder | hyakuhei: +1 | 17:34 |
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| tmcpeak | cool | 17:34 |
| hyakuhei | which I guess potentially puts B64 back on the table as an easy way to encode messy stuff | 17:34 |
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| tmcpeak | yeah | 17:34 |
| hyakuhei | Although it’s ugly from a git POV | 17:35 |
| gmurphy_ | yeah that makes sense. i was just trying to think of a way around the code snippets etc. | 17:35 |
| hyakuhei | reviewing OSSNs etc | 17:35 |
| tmcpeak | not that bad, just have a tox env or something that converts | 17:35 |
| michaelxin | sound like a good plan | 17:35 |
| tmcpeak | hrmm, yeah | 17:35 |
| tmcpeak | not great actually | 17:35 |
| ccneill | BSON | 17:35 |
| ccneill | :D | 17:35 |
| ccneill | (jk) | 17:35 |
| elmiko | lol | 17:36 |
| lhinds | What's the issue with parsing out the values from MD to YAML? I missed the gotcha? | 17:36 |
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| hyakuhei | lhinds: The MD is weakly enforced. No particularly solid schema | 17:36 |
| ccneill | that's why I was thinking maybe we enforce that by making a tool that you build an OSSN in | 17:37 |
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| ccneill | and it spits out MD in a format we can easily parse | 17:37 |
| ccneill | even if that doesn't map to an existing standard | 17:37 |
| ccneill | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 17:37 |
| hyakuhei | A tool to write a doc? | 17:37 |
| ccneill | definitely a bit of work to make it happen | 17:37 |
| tmcpeak | that's a lot of engineering work | 17:37 |
| ccneill | yep | 17:37 |
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| hyakuhei | We’d be better off having a WSDL | 17:37 |
| ccneill | haha | 17:37 |
| nkinder | That's sort of what I developed... | 17:37 |
| tmcpeak | might be over-engineering this | 17:37 |
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| hyakuhei | +1 | 17:38 |
| nkinder | You can write in the plain text form, then convert to YAML (or vice-versa) | 17:38 |
| tmcpeak | ok so we like YAML, only problem is how to handle the base64 snippet for review? | 17:38 |
| michaelxin | build on nkinder's current tools is better | 17:38 |
| hyakuhei | Ask a room full of engineers to write a document. | 17:38 |
| ccneill | haha | 17:38 |
| hyakuhei | So potentially we could have a gate job extract, decode and show/add the b64 if that’s the route we went | 17:38 |
| hyakuhei | ok, lets all have a think about this | 17:38 |
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| hyakuhei | and talk more next week? | 17:39 |
| tmcpeak | rathole deferred until next week? same time? | 17:39 |
| hyakuhei | ++ | 17:39 |
| nkinder | It would probably be useful if someone looked more closely at the tools I wrote | 17:39 |
| hyakuhei | I’ll try to stab at it | 17:39 |
| nkinder | ..then can give some feedback | 17:39 |
| tmcpeak | sounds good | 17:39 |
| nkinder | The one problem with code snippets in it right now is that you lose line feeds | 17:39 |
| michaelxin | how often do we have code snippet? | 17:40 |
| nkinder | pretty often | 17:40 |
| ccneill | nkinder: looks pretty reasonable to me | 17:40 |
| ccneill | from a quick skim | 17:40 |
| nkinder | ..but it's usually for configuration file snippets | 17:40 |
| ccneill | if the MD format is enforced consistently enough | 17:40 |
| nkinder | we rarely show actual code | 17:40 |
| hyakuhei | Yeah it’s more configs | 17:40 |
| ccneill | hmmm... is there some way we could abstract that away? | 17:41 |
| ccneill | like have a schema for various config changes? | 17:41 |
| ccneill | sorry, I keep trying to make this as complicated as possible :P | 17:41 |
| hyakuhei | No way | 17:41 |
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| ccneill | fair enough | 17:41 |
| hyakuhei | Some configs are pure python, many are custom logic, some are strange magic | 17:42 |
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| michaelxin | can we use Block literals for it? | 17:42 |
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| nkinder | michaelxin: I think we'll have to do something like that | 17:42 |
| ccneill | ...what if we just wrote OSSNs as a Python class with a to_yaml method? O_o | 17:42 |
| tmcpeak | michaelxin: that would be the easiest | 17:42 |
| ccneill | somewhat similar to setup.py | 17:43 |
| tmcpeak | I don't know how well it works for code snippets though | 17:43 |
| lhinds | There is a echo=FALSE in MD - we could put in our own tags | 17:43 |
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| tmcpeak | allright guys, glad we're having this discussion | 17:43 |
| michaelxin | can we try it for a couple of existing ones? | 17:43 |
| tmcpeak | seems like we've got buy in to do OSSN v 2 | 17:44 |
| lhinds | is it not more stuff like file perm octals, key / values though? | 17:44 |
| tmcpeak | maybe have some plays and come back next week with ideas? | 17:44 |
| tmcpeak | do want to have some time to chat midcycle | 17:44 |
| hyakuhei | Yup, lets get through the rest of the agenda. | 17:44 |
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| diazjf1 | tmcpeak, hyakuhei, so I started an etherpad here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-security-midcycle-N | 17:45 |
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| tmcpeak | #topic Midcycle | 17:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Midcycle (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:45 | |
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| diazjf1 | Having the security midcycle with the barbican midcycle worked out last year and I wanted to see everyones opinion on having both sessions together | 17:45 |
| diazjf1 | I am also working on getting space at IBM@Austin | 17:45 |
| diazjf1 | I wanted to get opinions as well as a list of potential attendees | 17:46 |
| hyakuhei | I’m very much in favor of an overlapping midcycle again | 17:46 |
| diazjf1 | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-security-midcycle-N | 17:46 |
| tmcpeak | +1 | 17:46 |
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| michaelxin | +1 | 17:46 |
| hyakuhei | diazjf1: ping me a mail if you need support for IBM@Austin | 17:46 |
| elmiko | +tacos | 17:47 |
| nkinder | I think overlapping would work nicely | 17:47 |
| hyakuhei | I assumed Rack when I saw Austin | 17:47 |
| nkinder | hyakuhei: Especially if we want to proceed more on the certmonger/anchor documentation we talked about at the Summit | 17:47 |
| michaelxin | doug and I talked about this. | 17:47 |
| hyakuhei | Definitely | 17:47 |
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| michaelxin | Let IBM try it first | 17:47 |
| hyakuhei | Righto | 17:47 |
| michaelxin | we can serve as backup | 17:47 |
| diazjf1 | cool, yeah I'll keep you guys posted. | 17:48 |
| michaelxin | diazjf1: +1 | 17:48 |
| hyakuhei | Righto, let me know if I can help | 17:48 |
| hyakuhei | Anything else on the agenda for today? | 17:49 |
| diazjf1 | Please add your info to the etherpad | 17:49 |
| sicarie | blog post review: https://github.com/openstack-security/openstack-security.github.io/pull/24 | 17:49 |
| hyakuhei | Thanks sicarie | 17:50 |
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| hyakuhei | Cool, anything else ? | 17:52 |
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| tmcpeak | should be a wrap | 17:53 |
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| hyakuhei | Excellent. Thanks everyone! | 17:53 |
| michaelxin | thanks | 17:53 |
| tmcpeak | thanks everybody! | 17:53 |
| tmcpeak | #endmeeting | 17:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:53 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 19 17:53:53 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:53 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-05-19-17.00.html | 17:53 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-05-19-17.00.txt | 17:53 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-05-19-17.00.log.html | 17:53 |
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| ccneill | o/ | 17:54 |
| elmiko | thanks tmcpeak, hyakuhei | 17:54 |
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| nkinder | thanks! | 17:54 |
| lhinds | thanks * | 17:54 |
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| diazjf1 | thanks guys | 17:56 |
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