Thursday, 2016-06-16

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ddieterlyhey everybody14:01
_slashme_Hi ddieterly14:01
MarcellinHello14:01
iceyaohi14:01
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mtaninohi14:02
liudanhi14:02
ddieterlymemo said that he will be running the meeting today14:02
domhnallwHi :)14:02
m3m0hi14:02
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m3m0#startmeeting freezer14:03
openstackMeeting started Thu Jun 16 14:03:53 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is m3m0. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'freezer'14:03
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m3m0as always, the topics for the meeting are available here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer_meetings14:04
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m3m0#topic multiple storages14:06
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m3m0ddieterly: any input on this?14:06
ddieterlyaka 'what's up with that?'14:06
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ddieterlyfrom what i can tell multiple storages is completely broken14:07
EinstCrazy___hello14:07
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ddieterlydid not know if it was supposed to be working14:07
ddieterlym3m0 just told me that it is supposed to be working14:07
ddieterlycouple of problems14:07
ddieterly1) the multipleStorage class does not implement methods from its parent class14:07
_slashme_It is supposed to be working but only from the agent14:07
ddieterly2) there is no config parameters defined for multiple storage in the oslo config14:08
yangyapengping liudan14:08
m3m0if not, we need to 1: fix it, 2: create test for it, 3: integrate it with tempest testing14:08
liudan14:08
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ddieterlyso, i'll create a bug for it14:08
ddieterlythen someone can work on it14:09
ddieterlyi guess that is all on that unless someone else has some more info on it14:09
ddieterly#action ddieterly will create bug for multiple storages14:10
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ddieterlyi'm fine with moving to next topic14:11
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m3m0ok14:11
EinstCrazy___ceilometer is able to config multi rabbit by lines,we may look for help14:11
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m3m0#topic Pending reviews14:12
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m3m0anyone has a critical review?14:12
EinstCrazy___ping yangyapeng14:13
yangyapengyes14:13
yangyapengirc on my phone14:13
EinstCrazy___oh, i see14:14
yangyapengping m3m014:14
m3m0sure, you can send the link after the meeting if you like, or tell me the name of the commit14:14
yangyapengthanks14:15
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m3m0anyone else?14:15
iceyaom3m0:  help me to review14:16
iceyaohttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/330381/14:16
iceyaothanks! :)14:16
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m3m0so basically,14:18
m3m0you want to add --incremental backup for cinder? or is it more than that?14:18
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m3m0iceyao: ^^14:18
EinstCrazy___ (^▽^)  iceyao and liudan are our team member, they will focus on freezer too14:19
m3m0that's really great14:20
yangyapengbackup cinder fixed the backup id14:20
m3m0thanks a lot guys14:20
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yangyapenghaha14:20
daemontoolo/14:20
ddieterlyEinstCrazy___ are those guys in china?14:20
iceyaom3m0:  I want to add restore cinder volume , can define special backup id14:20
m3m0what about the comments about the backup_volume ?14:20
yangyapengyes14:21
ddieterlynice14:21
EinstCrazy___yeah,we all at China14:22
ddieterlyEinstCrazy___ very cool14:22
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m3m0iceyao: are you fixing the comments suggestion in your commit/14:25
m3m0?14:25
iceyaom3m0: yeah14:25
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m3m0let me know then :)14:26
m3m0more commits?14:26
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iceyaowhat?14:27
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m3m0just tell me when you fix those comments14:28
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m3m0ok, next topic14:30
m3m0#topic Documentation14:30
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m3m0I'll fix the jenkins -1 and we need to merge this,https://review.openstack.org/31269414:31
m3m0after this the api docs14:31
m3m0it need to has, a description of all the endpoints and the expected payloads and responses14:31
m3m0to/from the api14:31
m3m0any other input for this/14:31
m3m0?14:31
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szaherwe need to finish all patches in review14:33
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m3m0+1 on that14:34
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_slashme_+1 szaher14:35
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EinstCrazy____+114:36
szaherwhat about review feast ?14:36
m3m0ok, let's do this offline14:37
m3m0#topic testing14:37
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m3m0is there any other major test that we need to cover?14:38
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_slashme_You mean that needs to be added to the tempest testing ?14:39
m3m0yep14:39
_slashme_I'd like to see ssh backend being tested14:39
EinstCrazy____I will add some unit test of openstack backup nearly14:40
_slashme_And some more complex incremental tests14:40
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m3m0ok, we need to define the scope of those tests then14:43
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jonaspfsorry I'm a bit late and I might have missed something. Here is the text for a blueprint regarding testing: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer_tempest14:45
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jonaspfFeel free to add to it14:46
m3m0is that the correct link?14:46
m3m0yep, sorry misread14:46
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m3m0ok guys, 7 more min14:54
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ddieterlyjonaspf +114:55
zhangjn+114:55
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ddieterlyjonaspf could you please add multiple storage testing to your plan?14:56
zhangjnwhat's the first testing in tempest?14:56
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jonaspfddieterly, will do14:56
ddieterlythanks14:56
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m3m0should we finish the meeting?14:59
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bswartz¬_¬15:00
gouthamrhello o/15:01
bswartz#startmeeting manila15:01
openstackbswartz: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.  Use #endmeeting first.15:01
zhongjun_^_^15:01
ganso#topic15:01
_slashme_#endmeeting15:01
m3m0#endmeeting15:01
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jun 16 15:01:46 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:01
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-06-16-14.03.html15:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-06-16-14.03.txt15:01
bswartzm3m0: ty15:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-06-16-14.03.log.html15:01
m3m0sorry guys15:01
gouthamrreal hello o/15:02
bswartz#startmeeting manila15:02
openstackMeeting started Thu Jun 16 15:02:03 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:02
dustinsm3m0: no worries!15:02
bswartzhello all15:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'manila'15:02
cknight1Hi15:02
marksturhello15:02
vponomaryovhello15:02
gansohello o/15:02
dustins\o15:02
aovchinnikovhi15:02
tpsilvahello15:02
zhongjun_hello15:02
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tbarronhi15:02
bswartz#agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings15:02
bswartz#topic announcements15:02
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bswartzhopefully you all saw the ML post about the midcycle etherpad15:03
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bswartz#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-manila-midcycle15:03
bswartzsuggest topics there15:03
bswartzalso, regarding manila-stable-maint: we will NOT be adding the whole core reviewer team to that group15:04
bswartzreviewers interested in joining the stable-maint team need to nominate themselves and we'll add individuals to the team15:04
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bswartzI know of several of who you want to be on that team, if anyone else does please let me know15:05
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bswartzthe main requirement to be on that team is that you have to understand the stable-maint rules and enforce them ruthlessly15:05
bswartz:-)15:06
gouthamrenforce them ruthlessly, sounds interesting15:06
bswartz#topic A share support multiple protocols15:06
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vkmco/15:06
zhongjun_link: https://review.openstack.org/32939215:06
zhongjun_There are two methods to implement the feature about Multiple protocols share.15:07
zhongjun_Please see which one is suitable for manila, or which one is definite not suitable for manila. Thanks15:07
bswartzzhongjun_: will you summarize here for those who haven't read the spec?15:08
zhongjun_User case: A customer may want to use one share in his linux system, and also use the same share in his windows system or something else. The customer15:08
zhongjun_can operate the same share data from different operating systems.15:08
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zhongjun_Method1: we could let a share have multiple protocols.15:09
zhongjun_Method2: we could let multiple shares connected to one.15:09
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ganso^ "to one instance"15:09
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bswartzI dislike method 2 because it would in strange API semantics15:09
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bswartzwhat if I resize a share -- the other share magically resizes too?15:10
zhongjun_bswartz: of cource15:10
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bswartzit would result* in strange API semantics15:10
vponomaryovas said in review for spec, variant 2 is not even discussable, IMHO15:10
gouthamrmultiple shares 1 instance, 1 share multiple instances.. this could get real confusing15:10
bswartzvponomaryov: +115:10
cknight1bswartz: +1  Method 2 breaks the semantics for share instances completely15:10
cknight1vponomaryov: +115:11
bswartzmethod 1 is worth discussing though15:11
tbarron+215:11
tbarron+1 i meant :)15:11
zhongjun_but method 2 will not change the allow/deny access API15:11
bswartzso this has come up a number of times before15:11
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bswartzOriginally it was dual CIFS+NFS access, which NetApp has always supported (but not in Manila) and which the generic driver could easily support if we decided to add it15:12
zhongjun_In method 1, if I resize a share is no problem.15:12
bswartzThen the Ceph guys proposed CephFS+NFS access15:12
bswartzzhongjun_: which specific use case did you have in mind?15:13
bswartzas vponomaryov pointed out, the spec lacks a problem statement15:13
tbarronyeah, having an NFS or CIFs gateway in front of a share that is natively other is i think a valid use case15:13
zhongjun_bswartz:  CIFS+NFS access15:14
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zhongjun_bswartz: yes, I will add the problem statement later.15:14
bswartzso one thing we would need to decide, if we allow this, is whether to only allow specific combinations of protocols, or to allow arbitrary combinations of protocols15:15
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bswartzif CIFS+NFS and CephFS+NFS are the only 2 use cases, then we could special case those 2 and reduce the complexity of solving this I think15:15
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vponomaryovbswartz: any-native + NFS is possible15:16
gansobswartz: are you assuming this is not something worth implementing in a generic way?15:16
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tbarronvponomaryov: +115:16
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bswartzganso: I'm just thinking ahead to the specific technical problems this will introduce15:17
bswartzand trying to limit the scope of what we have to deal with15:17
tbarroneventually it would need to be solved generally, but maybe short term could be done more narrowly scoped15:17
tbarronthe narrowly scoped solutions should be removable in favor of more general solution though if we go that way15:17
zhongjun_bswartz: the original idea is to allow arbitrary combinations of protocols15:18
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bswartzso where this gets ugly is with access allow, and with file metadata15:19
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bswartzaccess allow is currently designed use different things for different protocols15:19
bswartzwhen we have dual protocol we might need to specify for which protocol the access is being modified15:19
tbarronyeah15:19
gansothe backend would also need to be aware of adding an IP rule may need to add for more than one export in the backend, usually the exports store the access rules15:20
vponomaryovbswartz: it is proposed in spec15:20
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bswartzyes -- I think that will work15:20
bswartzand the issue of file metadata -- that's the reason we decided not to do this originally15:21
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bswartzI think it's inevitable that a NetApp CIFS+NFS share will exhibit different behavior from a Generic CIFS+NFS share when it comes to metadata handling15:21
tbarronendin general users don't expect metadata translation on a share15:21
bswartzor any other backend for that matter15:22
tbarronin general15:22
bswartztbarron: don't they?15:22
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tbarronbetween CIFS and NFS for instance15:22
tbarronnot full15:22
bswartzIf I request a CIFS+NFS share, presumably it's because I want to actually use it for both CIFS and NFS, and in that case I need my mode bits and ACLs to be sane across protocols15:22
bswartzIt's no good if I create a file on my CIFS share owned by bswartz, and then I access it through NFS and it's owned by "nobody"15:23
tbarronsome stuff has to map, but not everything will.  "sane" doesn't mean it all maps.15:23
tbarronbackend responsibility15:24
gansomaybe we should document that there will be restrictions15:24
gansoit relies a lot on security service configuration15:24
bswartzthe point is that users will care about the behavior to a certain degree, and if we can't guarantee that behavior then it's a useless feature15:24
zhongjun_ganso: yes  the security service need to be changed in method115:25
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bswartzit will boil down to "you get what you get" and nobody will be able to write applications without knowing what backend is behind manila (which defeats the purpose of manila)15:25
bswartzif we can find a way to guarantee some minimum standard then I'm more interested15:26
bswartzbut I know from experience that this is wickedly complicated15:27
cknight1bswartz: +115:27
tbarronis there a common minimum mapping for NFS and CIFS?15:27
bswartzNFSv3 and NFSv4 don't even play particularly well together15:27
cknight1bswartz:  It's gotta just work and be consistent15:27
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tbarronI think we could document what to expect for NFS + ceph15:27
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tbarronso as you point out we already have the issue within "NFS"15:28
bswartztbarron: CephFS has the advantage of only having a single implementation, so whatever it does is automatically standard15:28
bswartzas long as cephfs doesn't change what it does between versions I suppose15:29
tbarronbut there could conceivably be different NFS gateway implementations, so I agree that there should be some documentation of what to expect15:29
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bswartzin the case of CIFS+NFS, you need some external concept of users and mappings of those users between protocols15:29
tbarronor NFSv3 and NFSv4 really15:30
zhongjun_+1  I will add it.15:30
* tbarron is getting a headache15:30
bswartz"bswartz" has a UID for NFSv3, a name for NFSv4, and a SID for CIFS15:30
tbarronso we have an implicit external representation of bswartz and the guy who has those three things15:31
bswartzthose have to be defined somewhere -- currently we rely on the security service for those definitions15:31
tbarronas the guy15:31
tbarronwho may also live in NIS, LDAP, or a spreadsheet somewhere15:32
bswartzhowever nowhere do we have the information that bswartz UID 12699 is the same as bswartz@netapp.com is the same as SID S-1-5-1234090579835-234582349857892345-23458273948515:32
tbarronor just in the same cube, using those three things15:32
bswartzso a NetApp controller stores the above information in a mapping table on the device itself15:33
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bswartzwith the generic driver, we would have to configure Samba very carefully to do the right thing15:34
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marksturuser mapping would be up to the admin15:35
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marksturvendor support or lack-of would be a capability or a requirement15:35
vponomaryovmarkstur: I already imagine all the sufferings of admins15:35
marksturyep15:36
gansoif this needs admin intervention I believe this can no longer make sense for DHSS=True mode15:36
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bswartzmarkstur: that's not possible with security services15:36
bswartzganso: +99915:36
marksturin dhss=true the security service is in play, but still mapping is needed somewhere15:36
marksturto allow cross-protocol15:37
bswartzthe whole point of security services is that, as a tenant, I can run my own AD controller and my own Kerberos/LDAP domains15:37
marksturunless there is a cross-protocol w/ mangled acls as a feature15:37
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vponomaryovbuilt generic driver with two protocols? Congratulations! You just achieved "God-like" rank.15:37
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dustinshahaha15:38
marksturSo I'd think the cross-protocol use case we want would be only the one where we have a sane user mapping15:38
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marksturbut I think that is dhss=false and too much responsibility on the admin to do stuff outside of manila15:39
bswartzThe only way this can make sense for DHSS=true drivers with security services is to provide a mechanism for tenants to define their own user mappings...15:39
marksturok15:39
bswartzand I'm nervous about undertaking that effort15:39
vponomaryovit requires very experienced users15:39
marksturbut ultimately it is the subtle differences from one vendor to another that would be the hard part15:39
marksturthe not-knowing-what-you'll-get problem15:40
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bswartzmarkstur: precisely15:40
bswartzI'm sure we could implement this and get it to "mostly" work15:41
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marksturYep. For single-vendor environment probably worth a try, but the multi-vendor inconsistency is a bad problem unless we have something reasonable like 2 well-known behaviors we can deal with15:42
bswartzbut there would be weird behaviors that would creep in and any user wanting to consume dual protocol would be left wondering how compatible their application really was with other backends (other than what they tested on)15:42
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gansobswartz: either way, users should not need to worry about backends15:42
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bswartzyeah that's part of our mission as an openstack project15:43
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bswartzeverything you need to know you can get through the manila API15:43
bswartzthere's no secret out of band information needed to consume the manila API15:43
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bswartzanyways, we have another topic on the agenda, so I want to table this15:44
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marksturis there a # commad for tabled?15:45
bswartzIt's still a very interesting use case with obvious value if we can only figure out how to provide it in a common way15:45
bswartzmarkstur: midcycle etherpad!15:45
bswartzwe need to discuss this more and I hope people can come up with ideas to define a minimum standard that can be depended on15:45
zhongjun_bswartz: ok15:45
bswartzand the user mapping problem with DHSS=true is something we need to sort out too15:46
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bswartzso let's keep this discussion going15:46
tbarronhow is that uid 12699 is the same as bswartz@netapp.com not secret out of band info today?15:46
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tbarronagree that we can table, and agree that it's a real issue15:46
bswartztbarron: today you can't use both in the same context, so it doesnt' matter15:47
bswartzoh wait15:47
bswartzno you're talking about NFSv3+NFSv415:47
tbarronyeah15:47
bswartzyeah that's a hairy mess that I'm not happy with15:47
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* bswartz shakes his fist at the NFSv4 designers15:48
tbarronso i agree that we should think more before going further down that road15:48
bswartztbarron: in theory if you use NIS you can setup a security service where the NIS server provides that mapping15:49
tbarronright15:49
bswartzwe need to move on however15:49
bswartz#topic Drivers with minimum size for shares15:49
tpsilvathanks bswartz15:49
bswartztpsilva: you're up15:49
bswartzopenstack: ping15:50
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bswartzoh the bot is on the fritz15:50
tpsilvaso I'm implementing a driver for one of our backends and it has a minimum share size limitation15:50
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bswartzhow big is the minimum?15:50
tpsilvaI know that one of the EMC drivers for cinder had an issue like this, but they solved it by rounding it in the driver15:51
gansobswartz: 128 gb15:51
tpsilvabswartz: 128GB15:51
vponomaryovand how small is the maximum? ))15:51
xyang1The EMC one has limit on multiple of 8gb15:51
tpsilvavponomaryov: some PBs... don't remember it15:51
bswartzyeah I was present for the cinder discussions and EXTREMELY unhappy with the outcome15:51
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bswartzso what is the granularity of you exceed the minimum?15:51
bswartzcan the backend support 129GB?15:52
jseiler__vponomaryov, +115:52
tpsilvayes15:52
gansobswartz: yes15:52
tpsilvai mean, you cannot create shares with less than 128GBs15:52
tpsilvabut anything bigger than that is ok15:52
bswartzis it possible to create a 128GB share, but to limit usage of the share to some smaller amount using quotas?15:52
tpsilvano, unfortunately15:53
vponomaryovtpsilva: and your backend does not support thin provisioning?15:53
tbarronnote that if you "solve" this in the driver your quotas will still be off15:53
bswartzit seems like this backend is broken!15:53
tpsilvavponomaryov: it does, but if you create a default minimum with 128GB, a share with 1GB will have a real size of 128GBs15:53
tbarroneven if you return a model update that corrects the usage in the database15:53
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dustinsHmm, creates an interesting problem for Tempest tests as well, but that could be fixed...15:53
gansotbarron: we do not allow such model update15:54
dustinsJust have an option for minimum share size15:54
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tpsilvawhat I would ideally want is some kind of filter in the scheduler15:54
xyang1in tempest you can set size15:54
bswartzno -- I am opposed to playing games with the share size in manila15:54
vponomaryovtpsilva: you map share to volume directly?15:54
tbarronganso: nor IMO should we, but I lost the cinder argument15:54
tbarronganso: either way your quotas are wrong15:54
bswartzit seems less bad to silently give the user more space than they asked for15:54
tpsilvavponomaryov: share to filesystem in this particular backend15:55
xyang1ganso: you have the same issue in cinder?15:55
tpsilvabswartz: that's one way to solve it15:55
gansotbarron: yes, the quotas need to be correct, if a 128gb share in this backend is created, the user will be able to reach 128gb, and this needs to reflect on his manila quotas15:55
cknight1bswartz, tpsilva: What do you propose?  A ShareSizeFilter?15:55
gansoxyang1: yes, we have the same problem for cinder15:55
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vponomaryovcknight1: share size filter is really good solution for it15:56
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tpsilvacknight1: Ideally, yes... but apparently, bswartz is against it15:56
bswartzganso: the only way I can see that happening is if we add a "minimum share size" option to manila itself so the admin can force users to ask for shares of no less than 128 GB15:56
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vponomaryovbswartz: just filter it out on scheduler step as cknight1 proposed15:56
dustinsAnd that would also carry over into the suggestion for Tempest as well15:56
gansobswartz: that looks confusing for users15:57
bswartzif it's an error to ask for a 127GB share, then we should surface that error all the way back to the user15:57
bswartzI strongly dislike giving users something other than what they ask for15:57
marksturwould this backend be happier with an "unlimited" share feature?15:57
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bswartzif we can't give them what they ask for, it should be an error and we help them ask for the right thing15:57
tbarronbswartz: +1, and the driver should document their "feature"15:57
gansoif users request 127, it should land on a backend that supports a 127gb size share. If user requests 128, then it may land on this backend15:57
gouthamrmarkstur: petabytes != unlimited15:57
cknight1bswartz: it's hard to do this check in the API layer, but a user message could say why the request didn't pass the ShareSizeFilter15:58
gansomarkstur: that would not solve the problem15:58
cknight1bswartz: and the default minimum share size could be 115:58
tpsilvamarkstur: not sure if that's possible15:58
marksturwell nothing is really unlimited.  but unlimited has been proposed in the past15:58
gansomarkstur: I am assuming you mean something like size = null, so unlimited15:58
xyang1the scheduler does not provide a nice user message though15:58
gouthamroh you mean no size..15:58
gansosince this backend maps to a filesystem, the filesystem needs a size15:58
xyang1it says no host found15:58
bswartzunlimited is not infinite15:58
gouthamrameade's here, user messages are still a possibility :)15:59
vponomaryovtime check15:59
bswartzunlimited means we don't enforce any limit -- but the laws of physics will inevitably enforce some limit15:59
tpsilvathe idea of just letting the user know that this is an error is also good, but how?15:59
marksturso filter seems like the best thing for now -- but it is unfortunate the user won't get a message that says "try asking for a little more space please"15:59
bswartzlet's take this discussion to the channel15:59
tpsilvak15:59
cknight1filter + user message seems reasonable15:59
gouthamrcknight1 +116:00
bswartz#endmeeting16:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jun 16 16:00:06 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-06-16-15.02.html16:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-06-16-15.02.txt16:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-06-16-15.02.log.html16:00
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xyang1ameade can correct me, but I think we cannot provide the user msg yet for this error16:00
* bswartz slaps openstack around a bit with a large trout16:00
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xarses#startmeeting fuel16:00
xarses#chair xarses16:00
xarsesTodays Agenda:16:00
xarses#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fuel-weekly-meeting-agenda16:00
xarsesWho's here?16:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jun 16 16:00:58 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is xarses. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:01
mwhahahahi16:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'fuel'16:01
openstackCurrent chairs: xarses16:01
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xarsesthe agenda is empty again this week, so I will open the floor to discussion16:02
xarses#topic open-discuss16:02
xarsesif nothing, I will close the meeting in about 5 min16:02
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xarsesmwhahaha: anything interesting in library land?16:02
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mwhahahaiberezovskiy: is looking into the xenial stuff16:03
mwhahahathere appears to be some dance to be done around keystone as they've dropped eventlet in newton16:03
mwhahahabut we still use mitaka on the master16:03
mwhahahaso fun with backwards compatibilities16:03
mwhahahaother than that not a whole lot, 9.0.1 is progressing16:04
xarsesas usual16:04
mwhahahai fixed the ssl endpoint thing for ironic16:05
mwhahahaBug 156805916:05
openstackbug 1568059 in Fuel for OpenStack "ironic_conductor doesn't use TLS settings" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568059 - Assigned to Alex Schultz (alex-schultz)16:05
xarsesyay16:06
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xarsesany other clean up you want to get done?16:06
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mwhahahayea probably need to revisit the haproxy stuff but never really got a good answer on not breaking plugin vips16:07
mwhahahaat the moment i'm looking into a bug in the mysql ocf script16:08
mwhahaharevisiting the action item from the last meeting, we don't test updated ocf scripts in ci16:08
xarseswould switching to RA upstream help here>16:08
mwhahahai thought it'd be part of the neutron_vlan_ha job but it appears that we don't inject the updated packages16:09
mwhahahai think the long term yea16:09
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xarsesok thanks, I will close the meeting shortly if there is nothing else16:12
iberezovskiylet's think about moving keystone under apache on the master node16:12
iberezovskiyin 10.016:12
xarsesiberezovskiy: +116:13
mwhahahawe should work on a fuel module16:13
iberezovskiyI'll file a bug16:13
mwhahahain upstream16:13
iberezovskiyand that's too16:13
mwhahahaand stop doing our fuel module that does the world16:13
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xarsesok, thanks all16:18
xarses#endmeeting16:18
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jun 16 16:18:17 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:18
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2016/fuel.2016-06-16-16.00.html16:18
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2016/fuel.2016-06-16-16.00.txt16:18
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2016/fuel.2016-06-16-16.00.log.html16:18
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nsun1Hi16:50
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tmcpeak#startmeeting security17:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jun 16 17:00:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tmcpeak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
tmcpeak#chair hyakuhei17:00
hyakuheio/17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'security'17:00
openstackCurrent chairs: hyakuhei tmcpeak17:00
hyakuhei#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-agenda17:00
hyakuheitmcpeak: I’m 3 hours into a 7 hour meeting …17:00
hyakuhei:’(17:00
hyakuheiI’m on my second headset already!17:00
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dg___hyakuhei livingthedream17:00
tmcpeakhyakuhei: epic17:00
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hyakuheiI know rite!17:01
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tmcpeakdid the other headset give up on life?17:01
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tkelseyo/17:01
* mhayden stumbles in17:01
tmcpeakooh mhayden17:02
tmcpeakwelcomes17:02
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hyakuheioooh, special guest star!17:02
mhaydenhaha, i'm trying to get these back on my cal again17:02
hyakuheiAwesome!17:03
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hyakuhei#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-agenda17:04
hyakuheiAgenda ^17:04
woodster_o/17:04
hyakuheihey woodster_17:04
mdongo/17:04
panatlo/17:04
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tmcpeakall I suggest we stop regularly covering Bandit and Anchor since they are mostly stable now17:04
dg___+117:04
woodster_hyakuhei: hello!17:04
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hyakuheitmcpeak: +117:05
hyakuheiAlthough there was an interesting bug logged a few days back with Anchor17:05
tmcpeakwe can still cover ad hoc I think17:05
hyakuheiBasically it’s more RFC complient than the internet :)17:05
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dg___rofl17:05
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hyakuheiAny objections to removing Anchor/Bandit from the Standing agenda? (move to AOB)17:06
dg___+!17:06
dg___wait +117:06
tmcpeak+117:06
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hyakuheiSo that’s -1 objections? :P17:06
tmcpeakship it17:07
dg___just move it already17:07
hyakuheiDone17:07
mhaydenso you're saying you want to "drop anchor" ?17:07
mhayden(sorry, couldn't help myself)17:07
hyakuheiwahey!17:07
hyakuheiSailing close to the wind with punns eh?17:07
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tmcpeakbadum dum17:08
hyakuheiok, we should probably do some OSSP things…17:08
hyakuhei#topic Syntribos17:08
hyakuheimdong: michaelxin et al?17:08
mdongcool, michaelxin is out on vacation this weel17:08
hyakuheiOutrageous!17:08
mdongI know.17:08
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tmcpeaklol17:09
mdongWe’ve been having lots of design sessions this week to talk through some of the assumptions about how our tests are written17:09
mdongwe’ve been taking notes on etherpad here17:09
mdong#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/syntribos-planning17:09
mdongwe’re also planning on syncing up with the OpenCAFE developers on our end to finally start moving off of OpenCAFE17:10
mdongnow that the contact we need is back from his paternity leave17:10
mdongwe’re also taking another pass at the reporting fucntion of the tool17:11
mdongthat’s all I got on Syntribos17:12
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tmcpeakawesome17:12
tmcpeak#topic OSSN17:13
tmcpeakanything new here?17:13
hyakuheiI don’t feel that OSSN have had enough attention recently which is a shame because we know people are using them17:13
tmcpeak+117:14
hyakuheiI’m as guilty as anyone else for not giving them the required attention.17:14
hyakuheiAny ideas on how we can improve that? Maybe a virtual sprint or something ?17:14
tmcpeaksame, I've been swamped17:14
hyakuheiJump on a hangout etc or something, bascialy we just agree to carve out a few hours one day?17:14
tmcpeaksounds like the best option17:15
hyakuheiok, lets try to do something in the next week?17:15
hyakuheiLets add something to the agenda to record it17:15
tmcpeakI'll be on vacation starting tomorrow17:16
tmcpeakI'm happy to participate but can't this week or next17:16
hyakuheilol, i see...17:16
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tmcpeakif you guys want to solve this OSSN thing while I chill on the beach that works for me though17:17
hyakuheiNo worries17:17
hyakuheiRighto, added something to the agenda to record people who want to help17:18
hyakuheiNext topic I guess?17:19
tmcpeakyeps17:19
hyakuhei#topic Midcycle17:19
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hyakuhei#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-security-midcycle-N17:19
tmcpeakattendance looks pretty low17:20
hyakuheiSo it’s a nice small group, nothing wrong with that we can potentially get lots done. The first mid-cycle wasn’t far off this size.17:20
tmcpeak8 listed, 3 marked as tentative17:20
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hyakuheiWe’ll be able to help Barbican more :)17:20
redrobot\o/17:20
dg___:D17:20
hyakuheiIt would be nice to have more people there17:20
woodster_:)17:21
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tmcpeakalso we need to figure out which days are security and which are Barbican17:21
hyakuheiYup17:21
tmcpeakrealistically I won't be able to attend the entire week17:21
redrobotI don't think we have a preference.  Whatever works for you guys.17:21
hyakuheiTraditionally redrobot and I arm wrestle at the start which is why Security always comes second17:21
* redrobot wonders if diazjf is here?17:21
* redrobot lifts17:21
hyakuheilol17:22
redrobotI guess Fernando isn't around17:22
hyakuheiSo last I heard we had a big room at IBM Austin17:22
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tmcpeakhave we agreed on any of the tentative parts of this?17:22
tmcpeakdates and location17:22
hyakuheiI’ll attempt to get funding for feeding people17:22
redrobotYeah, I missed the Barbican meeting this week, but he said he's pretty sure it's going to happen at IBM... I think we're still tentative on the dates?17:22
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hyakuheiThat might be right, I’m still catching up after vacation17:23
redrobotI can shoot him an email to touch base17:23
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redrobotI think I'd like to have a 2nd room if possible17:23
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redrobotnot that I wouldn't enjoy sharing a room with you lovely folks17:24
hyakuheiI think this a big partionable one but yeah17:24
redrobot:-O  ... partitions would work too17:24
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dg___can we confirm those dates, so I can look at getting funding for HP people to travel?17:24
tmcpeakyeah confirm would be good17:25
tmcpeakand figure out split17:25
tmcpeaklike security Weds-Friday?17:25
tmcpeakBarbican Monday-Weds?17:25
tmcpeaki dunno17:25
dg___lgtm17:25
redrobottmcpeak sounds good to me17:25
tmcpeakok cool, so we for sure have the room then?17:26
hyakuheiSingle day overlap works well17:26
tmcpeakand we for sure have these dates?17:26
tmcpeakallright now we're getting somewhere, everybody ask for the moneys :)17:26
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hyakuheiExcellent17:27
tmcpeakallright17:27
tmcpeakanything else for midcycle?17:27
tmcpeakthink we can skip publicity too17:28
hyakuheiYup17:28
hyakuhei+1 skip17:28
tmcpeakdocs might be another thing to put on AOB17:28
tmcpeakthere hasn't been any updates there for a while17:28
tmcpeakoh17:28
tmcpeakbut we do need to discuss strategy for maintaining them17:28
hyakuheielmiko isn’t here17:28
tmcpeakhyakuhei this came up last week17:28
tmcpeak#topic Docs17:28
hyakuheisicarie etc?17:28
tmcpeaksicarie: can you summarize the issues you're having maintaining stuff?17:28
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sicarieNot enough in-depth knowledge of individual services17:29
sicarieWe had a compliance addition hit this morning - that's good info17:29
sicariebut maintaining info after a section is added is really where we're hitting a wall17:30
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hyakuheiDifficult, back in the first iteration we mostly had experts in the room17:30
tmcpeakyeah and also out of date security docs can arguably be worse than no docs17:30
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sicarieYep17:30
hyakuheiI wonder if we could do something similar again, gather the coresec’s from the various teams or something ?17:30
tmcpeakthat sounds like it will be very difficult to coordainate17:30
sicarieThat might be a good "design session" type thing for a Summit17:30
tmcpeaknot to mention difficult to hold over the phone and expensive to do in person17:31
dg___feels like an in-person thing17:31
dg___yes, expensive, but otherwise do we give up on maintaining the guide?17:31
tmcpeakalso this is entirely a volunteer effort with sicarie and elmiko right now17:31
tmcpeakthey are both busy with other things17:31
tmcpeakso a scale problem too17:31
tmcpeakdg___: yeah not sure, maybe scale back the guide?17:32
tmcpeakprovide guarantees for certain core sections and disclaimers for others17:32
dg___i think tis the core sections, like neutron, that we are struggling with, sicarie?17:32
sicarieYeah17:32
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tmcpeakwell other sections are most certainly out of date and we just don't know it17:33
hyakuheiWell, I’d certainly say that it’s ok to remove stuff that’s not up to par17:33
hyakuheiJust WIP the chapter17:33
sicarietmcpeak: +117:33
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tmcpeakmy biggest concern is elmiko/sicarie or both get reprioritized or move on from OpenStack and the guide is orphaned17:33
hyakuheiThat’s what we did to start with, if we didn’t have the expertise to write something17:33
hyakuheitmcpeak: Sure, well in that case I’d try to find someone else17:33
tmcpeakyeah17:34
hyakuheibut if we can’t find someone then we’ll sunset it, for now we should look at improving quality and hopefully adoption17:34
tmcpeak+117:34
tmcpeakI'd love to say I'll help with this but I won't17:34
tmcpeak;)17:34
dg___im uncomfortable about sunsetting it, Ravi made a good point about needing deployer guidance...17:34
hyakuheiyeh17:35
tmcpeakagreed17:35
sicariehyakuhei: I'll take a look at it and see what I think we should pull out17:35
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sicariemaybe floating that list of sections to -dev will get some input?17:35
tmcpeakyeah that sounds like a good step17:35
tmcpeakdid we bail on the checklists when pdesai left btw?17:35
tmcpeakI wonder if converting everything to checklists would make maintaining easier17:35
sicariethere has been a significant amount of stagnancy over the last 2 months - elmiko and I are both involved in other projects17:36
tmcpeakyeah17:36
sicarieHowever, mine ends at the beginning of next month, so I can pick up a bit more after that17:36
tmcpeakwell I guess as long as you and elmiko can still work on it we're ok17:37
tmcpeakI guess just something for us to think about, mid-term plans17:37
hyakuheiSorry got pulled away for a second.17:37
hyakuheiWhere are we17:37
tmcpeaksicarie: can spend some time cleaning up and pulling out sections at the end of this month17:38
tmcpeakother than that it's a problem we should be thinking about17:38
hyakuheiAgreed17:38
tmcpeakrealistically OSSP resources are dwindling17:38
tmcpeakso we should figure out how to do more with less17:38
tmcpeakor trim focus from projects17:38
hyakuheiSame for all of OpenStack but yes17:38
tmcpeakyeah17:39
hyakuheiHowever some of the things like Anchor and Bandit are drawing less resouce now17:39
tmcpeaktrue17:39
hyakuheiAt a minimum we can maintain OSSNs, VMT support and the security guide17:39
tmcpeakagreed we should do those17:39
dg___+117:39
hyakuheiAnd of course the fantastic syntribos!17:40
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tmcpeakthat leaves the question of threat analysis17:40
tmcpeakthis is a new project that requires significant time and energy17:40
dg___I assumed that came under 'VMT support'17:40
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tmcpeakhow will we deal with that with less resources17:40
hyakuheiNah TA is separate17:40
hyakuheiDoug and I can do most of the heavy lifting I think17:40
tmcpeakon a repeatable basis?17:40
hyakuheiIt’s more getting it to a point where we don’t have to hold peoples hands through the whole thing17:40
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hyakuheiWhich is what the new documentation does17:40
dg___at that point it should be fairly lightweight17:41
tmcpeakok cool17:41
hyakuheiThat’s the theory17:41
hyakuheiWe’ll just have to keep trimming stuff until it makes sense17:41
tmcpeakI will buy you both many beers if you can17:41
tmcpeak*when you do17:41
dg___deal17:41
hyakuheilol17:42
tmcpeakI know hyakuhei was on vacation and is still catching up so I assume you still have to synch on TA and there isn't much to talk about this week?17:42
tmcpeaklikewise for blog?17:42
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dg___thats pretty much it for TA, although we are looking to publish an internal TA from HP fairly soon17:43
hyakuheiblog can tick along17:43
tmcpeaknice17:43
hyakuheiIt’s ok if that goes quiet from time to time.17:43
hyakuheiThings like TA will create more content17:43
tmcpeaksure17:43
tmcpeakshould we move that to AOB section too then?17:43
tmcpeakalong with Docs?17:43
hyakuheiBlog yes, TA no17:43
tmcpeaksorry I meant blog, not TA17:43
hyakuhei+117:44
tmcpeakdocs too?17:44
hyakuheiNo, they need more attention17:44
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tmcpeakok cool17:45
hyakuhei#topic AOB17:45
hyakuheiNothing?17:46
hyakuheiI guess we can wrap then?17:46
tmcpeakyep, wraps17:46
hyakuheiSweet! TY all!17:46
hyakuhei£endmeeting17:46
hyakuheidoh17:46
tmcpeakhaha17:46
tmcpeakpounds!17:46
hyakuhei#endmeeting17:46
dg___hhah17:46
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jun 16 17:46:58 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:47
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-06-16-17.00.html17:47
tmcpeakthanks hyakuhei!17:47
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-06-16-17.00.txt17:47
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-06-16-17.00.log.html17:47
dg___£englishproblems :P17:47
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