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toabctl | #startmeeting rpm_packaging | 13:00 |
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openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 30 13:00:02 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is toabctl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:00 | |
openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rpm_packaging' | 13:00 |
toabctl | hi | 13:00 |
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toabctl | please add your agenda points as usual to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-rpm-packaging | 13:00 |
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IgorYozhikov | o/ | 13:01 |
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jpena | o/ | 13:01 |
number80 | o/ | 13:02 |
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number80 | jpena: could you add a topic about your progress w/ the RDO gate? | 13:02 |
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jpena | number80: sure, just added | 13:02 |
number80 | thanks :) | 13:03 |
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toabctl | ok. let's start | 13:04 |
toabctl | #topic osl-lib as part for py*clients | 13:04 |
*** openstack changes topic to "osl-lib as part for py*clients (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:04 | |
toabctl | IgorYozhikov, ^^ | 13:04 |
IgorYozhikov | toabctl, yes, just saw a bit time ago this new requirement | 13:04 |
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number80 | osl-lib? | 13:04 |
IgorYozhikov | most of clients are going to use it | 13:04 |
IgorYozhikov | osc-lib | 13:04 |
number80 | ah yes | 13:05 |
number80 | it'll simplify clients packaging | 13:05 |
IgorYozhikov | as a common part of functions extracted from osclient | 13:05 |
toabctl | #link https://pypi.python.org/pypi/osc-lib | 13:05 |
IgorYozhikov | I think that we also need to created project for it | 13:06 |
toabctl | IgorYozhikov, project? why not just another .spec.j2 ? | 13:06 |
IgorYozhikov | but for now osc-lib has strange behavior with version | 13:06 |
IgorYozhikov | toabctl, yes I mean folder & j2 | 13:06 |
number80 | yes, we experienced that but we can just ping version to latest known to work | 13:07 |
number80 | that's why I'm not found of packaging trunk libs, they break too often | 13:07 |
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toabctl | is there a bug for the "strange problem" ? | 13:07 |
number80 | *release | 13:07 |
number80 | toabctl: it's being addressed currently | 13:07 |
IgorYozhikov | https://github.com/openstack/osc-lib/blob/master/osc_lib/__init__.py#L18 | 13:08 |
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IgorYozhikov | when you are trying to import osc_lib without installed py*osclient -> it fails | 13:08 |
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IgorYozhikov | I believe that version should be returned 0.2.0 as in egg# of osc_lib | 13:09 |
IgorYozhikov | otherwise it returns version of openstackclient not osc_lib | 13:09 |
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toabctl | do we need it now? or can we wait for the next release which hopefully fixed the problem? | 13:10 |
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IgorYozhikov | if we are not going to update py*clients in nearest future - so now, we can wait | 13:11 |
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toabctl | ok. anything else about that topic? | 13:12 |
IgorYozhikov | nope | 13:12 |
toabctl | #topic packages reviews | 13:12 |
*** openstack changes topic to "packages reviews (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:12 | |
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toabctl | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/rpm-packaging+status:open | 13:12 |
number80 | a lot of versions bump today | 13:12 |
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toabctl | yeah. great! | 13:13 |
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number80 | separate topic available: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/rpm-packaging+branch:master+topic:oslo-updates | 13:13 |
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IgorYozhikov | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/333520/ && https://review.openstack.org/#/c/335923/ looks doing the same | 13:14 |
number80 | some of them are trivial, others need to review CI logs | 13:14 |
toabctl | from the SUSE CI side, I hopefully fixed the problems with missing dependencies. but we have now a queue because our CI has currently only one worker | 13:14 |
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number80 | jpena: could you look at it ? ^ | 13:14 |
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jpena | number80: sure. I see 2 reviews failed to pass the SUSE CI, will have a look | 13:15 |
number80 | thanks | 13:15 |
IgorYozhikov | toabctl, did you solve issue with oslo.cache and dogpile.cache? | 13:16 |
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toabctl | IgorYozhikov, which issue? | 13:16 |
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jpena | toabctl: actually, that is causing one of the CI failures -> https://build.opensuse.org/package/live_build_log/home:suse-cloud-ci:rpm-packaging-openstack-4ad6ec3286ed04cd5811f46f9b0d1aa9777ae296/python-oslo.cache/SLE_12_SP1/x86_64 | 13:17 |
* toabctl was 2 weeks on vacation... | 13:17 | |
jpena | we need dogpile.cache 0.6 or later | 13:17 |
IgorYozhikov | dogpile >= 0.6 | 13:17 |
IgorYozhikov | but oslo.cache 1.9 fails with this dogpile | 13:17 |
IgorYozhikov | also i see that 1.10 arrived - https://github.com/openstack/oslo.cache/tree/1.10.0 | 13:18 |
IgorYozhikov | might be I can try bump it today? | 13:18 |
toabctl | jpena, yes. I updated dogpile.cache | 13:18 |
toabctl | IgorYozhikov, number80 did that already. see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/335928/ | 13:18 |
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IgorYozhikov | toabctl, i see dependencies issues in SUSE CI - raise VersionConflict(dist, req).with_context(dependent_req) | 13:19 |
IgorYozhikov | [ 71s] ContextualVersionConflict: (iso8601 0.1.10 (/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages), Requirement.parse('iso8601>=0.1.11'), set(['oslo.utils'])) | 13:19 |
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toabctl | IgorYozhikov, where? | 13:20 |
IgorYozhikov | https://build.opensuse.org/package/live_build_log/home:suse-cloud-ci:rpm-packaging-openstack-a0fc365a69fddf0f9ded6482f4a089eec3ec1b7f/python-oslo.cache/SLE_12_SP1/x86_64 | 13:20 |
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IgorYozhikov | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/335915/1 +2.1 | 13:22 |
toabctl | IgorYozhikov, I'll have a look with the iso8601 problem | 13:22 |
IgorYozhikov | toabctl, thanx | 13:22 |
toabctl | IgorYozhikov, merged https://review.openstack.org/#/c/335915/1 . I was just waiting for our CI | 13:22 |
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toabctl | jpena, as IgorYozhikov mentioned, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/335923/ is a duplicate | 13:23 |
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toabctl | jpena, can you have a look there, please? maybe close yours and comment on the other one? | 13:23 |
jpena | toabctl: oh, sure. I didn't see that one | 13:23 |
IgorYozhikov | toabctl, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/330527/ could you please tel me - what is wrong with lint? | 13:24 |
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toabctl | IgorYozhikov, see http://logs.openstack.org/27/330527/7/check/gate-rpm-packaging-tox-lint/b35cbb0/console.html . there's the diff output | 13:24 |
toabctl | IgorYozhikov, you can run it locally with "tox -elint" to check it | 13:25 |
IgorYozhikov | oh - %changelog | 13:25 |
IgorYozhikov | 2016-06-27 13:45:28.620352 | \ No newline at end of file | 13:25 |
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toabctl | IgorYozhikov, it's about the empty lines. | 13:26 |
toabctl | i.e. http://logs.openstack.org/27/330527/7/check/gate-rpm-packaging-tox-lint/b35cbb0/console.html#_2016-06-27_13_45_28_619822 | 13:26 |
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IgorYozhikov | toabctl, linter expecting 1 '\n' instead of 2? | 13:27 |
IgorYozhikov | right | 13:27 |
toabctl | yes | 13:27 |
toabctl | anything else about spec reviews? | 13:27 |
IgorYozhikov | but this should be reflected in wiki | 13:28 |
IgorYozhikov | going to update wiki page | 13:28 |
toabctl | IgorYozhikov, true. thanks! | 13:28 |
toabctl | #topic pymod2pkg reviews | 13:29 |
*** openstack changes topic to "pymod2pkg reviews (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:29 | |
toabctl | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/pymod2pkg+status:open | 13:29 |
toabctl | both reviews listed there just need another +2 | 13:30 |
toabctl | number80, do you need a pymod2pkg release on pypi when this got merged? | 13:30 |
number80 | toabctl: likely but let's wait next week, I'll check if we need other changes first | 13:30 |
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toabctl | ok | 13:31 |
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IgorYozhikov | number80, might be better if this re-* rule will be documented | 13:32 |
IgorYozhikov | I'm about usage | 13:32 |
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number80 | IgorYozhikov: ack | 13:32 |
IgorYozhikov | may be 1 -2 examples | 13:33 |
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IgorYozhikov | thanx :) | 13:33 |
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toabctl | #topic RDO-based gate (WIP) | 13:33 |
*** openstack changes topic to "RDO-based gate (WIP) (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:33 | |
toabctl | ^^ jpena | 13:33 |
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jpena | I've been working on making the RDO Trunk build tool (DLRN) support the rpm-packaging specs | 13:34 |
jpena | so far I've got a working instance and I've collected the status at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DLRN-rpm-packaging | 13:34 |
jpena | that caused some of my review-spam today :) | 13:35 |
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jpena | once we iron out the details, our plan is to use that for the RDO gate | 13:35 |
toabctl | cool | 13:35 |
IgorYozhikov | looks good | 13:36 |
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number80 | Yup, the nice touch is that we'd be able to build locally rpm-packaging spec for RDO very easily (so faster reviews) | 13:36 |
jpena | number80: btw, there is one detail I just realized. DLRN always tries to build the latest master commit, while we have specific versions | 13:36 |
jpena | as a gate job, that could create issues | 13:36 |
number80 | I think we could solve that though | 13:37 |
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toabctl | can I somewhere see the trunk builds? | 13:39 |
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jpena | toabctl: I'll set up an internet-facing instance, right now the one I used is inside the vpn | 13:39 |
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toabctl | jpena, ok. and the one without rpm-packaging? is that public? | 13:40 |
number80 | https://trunk.rdoproject.org/ | 13:40 |
toabctl | thx! | 13:40 |
jpena | toabctl: we are building master, stable/mitaka and stable/liberty packages there (it's all in the index page) | 13:41 |
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toabctl | hm. I just get 404 (https://trunk.rdoproject.org/f23/current/) | 13:41 |
jpena | toabctl: that's waiting for an update :) Use f24 and f25 (for rawhide) | 13:41 |
toabctl | ah. centos works :) | 13:42 |
number80 | well, reference platform for us :) | 13:42 |
IgorYozhikov | yes, centos - ok , fedora - 404 | 13:42 |
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jpena | https://trunk.rdoproject.org/f24/current/ and https://trunk.rdoproject.org/f25/current/ work, although we have some non-built packages (trying to fix those) | 13:43 |
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IgorYozhikov | :) | 13:43 |
IgorYozhikov | toabctl, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/330527/ passed linter | 13:43 |
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toabctl | IgorYozhikov, great! :) | 13:44 |
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toabctl | anything else about the RDO-based gate? | 13:44 |
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toabctl | #topic open discussion | 13:44 |
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:44 | |
toabctl | anthing else to discuss? | 13:44 |
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toabctl | jpena, number80 looking at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DLRN-rpm-packaging , there are 2 problems mentioned (Source vs Source0 and version vs upstream_version). do you already have a plan how to solve these? | 13:46 |
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IgorYozhikov | not now, after merging pymod2pkg - will start to do j2 4 renderspec | 13:46 |
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number80 | toabctl: I'm planning to work on renderspec to allow more customization per target | 13:47 |
jpena | toabctl: number80 mentioned they could be fixed in renderspec. I think we might fix Source vs Source0 in the spec files themselves (only 3 specs use Source instead of Source0) | 13:47 |
number80 | wfm | 13:47 |
toabctl | IgorYozhikov, I don't understand your comment. can you rephrase please? | 13:47 |
IgorYozhikov | I'm mean that I will start to work on spec.j2 for renderspec after https://review.openstack.org/#/c/330527/ been merged | 13:48 |
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toabctl | IgorYozhikov, ah. ok | 13:48 |
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toabctl | IgorYozhikov, which review was that with the iso8601 problem? | 13:49 |
IgorYozhikov | oslo.cache | 13:49 |
toabctl | ok. I guess we are done. we can continue in #openstack-rpm-packaging | 13:49 |
toabctl | thanks everybody! | 13:49 |
toabctl | #endmeeting | 13:49 |
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:49 | |
openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 30 13:49:54 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:49 |
openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2016/rpm_packaging.2016-06-30-13.00.html | 13:49 |
openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2016/rpm_packaging.2016-06-30-13.00.txt | 13:49 |
openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2016/rpm_packaging.2016-06-30-13.00.log.html | 13:49 |
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number80 | thanks toabctl! | 13:53 |
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domhnallw | Freezer meeting starting in a few minutes, right? | 13:58 |
m3m0 | domhnallw: yes | 13:58 |
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domhnallw | Okay, let's get this started. | 14:00 |
domhnallw | #startmeeting freezer | 14:00 |
openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 30 14:00:40 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is domhnallw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
ddieterly | groovy | 14:00 |
openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:00 | |
openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'freezer' | 14:00 |
ddieterly | o/ | 14:00 |
domhnallw | Okay, I don't see any topics in the etherpad, has anyone any suggestions? | 14:01 |
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m3m0 | o/ | 14:01 |
slashme | o/ | 14:01 |
daemontool | o/ | 14:01 |
domhnallw | #topic Using bup for backup engine - Tim Buckley to lead discussion | 14:02 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Using bup for backup engine - Tim Buckley to lead discussion (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:02 | |
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domhnallw | timothyb89? | 14:02 |
timothyb89 | so, I'm interested in adding a new engine that would use https://github.com/bup/bup | 14:02 |
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timothyb89 | it would give us solid deduplication for free, in addition to incremental backups and compression | 14:03 |
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domhnallw | I do note this in the readme: Reasons you might want to avoid bup | 14:03 |
domhnallw | This is a very early version. Therefore it will most probably not work for you, but we don't know why. It is also missing some probably-critical features. | 14:03 |
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ddieterly | it would fix the limitations tar has with incremental and name changes/moves | 14:04 |
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timothyb89 | while the github repo does say that (and it is still true, in some areas) it is still a fairly mature project | 14:04 |
timothyb89 | its been around ~6 years now | 14:04 |
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timothyb89 | and, it's underlying format (git packfile) is pretty battle-tested by now | 14:05 |
m3m0 | how is it doing in the performance area? | 14:05 |
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timothyb89 | I haven't measured that myself, but I'd imagine pretty decently.. it seems that they have implemented all the performance-critical parts in C | 14:05 |
ddieterly | current release .028.1 is a red flag | 14:05 |
m3m0 | and I wonder how it will behave when working with streams | 14:06 |
domhnallw | ddieterly, red flag? | 14:06 |
domhnallw | The 0.x version number you mean? | 14:06 |
ddieterly | it is not at a 1.0 release yet | 14:06 |
daemontool | timothyb89, can it be used to store data in the current supported media storage? | 14:06 |
ddieterly | domhnallw yes | 14:06 |
daemontool | how would it work, would we wrap the executable? | 14:07 |
timothyb89 | daemontool: to my knowledge it's only designed for filesystem-to-filesystem backups, so there would need to be a small layer on top for, e.g. swift | 14:07 |
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domhnallw | There's a related project called 'bupper' that facilitates config file-based profiles: https://github.com/tobru/bupper | 14:08 |
timothyb89 | wrapping needs further investigation, but it might not need to be wrapped at all, given that it's mainly written in python | 14:08 |
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timothyb89 | we may be able to use it directly, or worst case use it like we currently use tar | 14:08 |
daemontool | timothyb89, if we can use the code, without wrapping binaries +1 | 14:09 |
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jonaspf1 | there are other backup tools similar to bup. e.g. borg, attic, ... | 14:11 |
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domhnallw | Might also be worth looking at this near the bottom of the readme: https://github.com/bup/bup/tree/0.28.1#things-that-are-stupid-for-now-but-which-well-fix-later | 14:11 |
jonaspf1 | has anybody tried to analyse the different options? | 14:11 |
m3m0 | i did with borg | 14:12 |
m3m0 | python 3 only | 14:12 |
ddieterly | it would be great if someone could make a list of possible options in a bp and pros/cons of each option | 14:12 |
m3m0 | works with local storages | 14:12 |
m3m0 | but not so sure about swift | 14:12 |
daemontool | and also define some requirements from our side | 14:12 |
daemontool | for the tool | 14:12 |
daemontool | what needs to support/provide in order to be included | 14:12 |
domhnallw | Absolutely, a concrete set of requirements must come first. | 14:13 |
domhnallw | (a *lot* easier said than done though) | 14:13 |
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ddieterly | if everybody contributes what they know, then it would be easy | 14:13 |
ddieterly | step 1, create a bp | 14:13 |
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ddieterly | step 3, profit | 14:14 |
jonaspf1 | I looked at different backup systems for my private home backup a while ago. I found this overview very useful: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Synchronization_and_backup_programs | 14:14 |
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daemontool | I can write the requirements | 14:14 |
daemontool | in the bp | 14:15 |
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ddieterly | #action daemontool to create bp for backup engine options/requirements | 14:15 |
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daemontool | we need to be consistent with previous engines conversations | 14:16 |
daemontool | I-ll check that with slashme | 14:16 |
ddieterly | are those recorded somewhere? | 14:17 |
domhnallw | I was only aware of tar? | 14:17 |
ddieterly | domhnallw theres dar as well | 14:17 |
m3m0 | ddieterly: I see what you did there :P | 14:17 |
ddieterly | m3m0 i didn't just fall off a turnip truck | 14:17 |
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daemontool | ok next? | 14:18 |
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domhnallw | We're done with this topic then? | 14:18 |
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ddieterly | sure | 14:19 |
domhnallw | Okay. | 14:19 |
domhnallw | #topic Policy on breaking backward compatibility | 14:19 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Policy on breaking backward compatibility (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:19 | |
domhnallw | This should be fun :) | 14:19 |
ddieterly | i know we discussed this before, but i'm not sure if there is a stated policy on this | 14:19 |
daemontool | domhnallw, nice to meet you btw | 14:19 |
domhnallw | Likewise :) | 14:19 |
ddieterly | when daemontool is around, it is always fun | 14:20 |
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domhnallw | If anyone has any additional topics, now would be an excellent time to add them to the etherpad :) | 14:20 |
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ddieterly | do we have a policy on breaking backward compatibility? | 14:21 |
domhnallw | So, backward compatability. Are we talking about changing freezer's behaviour, or changing its requirement versions? | 14:21 |
timothyb89 | behavior I believe? | 14:21 |
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ddieterly | as i understand it, version n does not work with version n+1 | 14:22 |
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domhnallw | So I guess we need to also think about whether we're talking about the API, the scheduler, or the agent, and if we're talking command-line arguments, configuration settings, etc. etc. | 14:23 |
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ddieterly | if you are adding things to the etherpad, could you please pick a color so that we know who is adding what? | 14:23 |
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domhnallw | ddieterly, it looks so far that it's you and yangyapeng, is that wrong? | 14:24 |
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ddieterly | it looks like someone is adding with purple | 14:24 |
yangyapeng | not me :) | 14:24 |
ddieterly | maybe that's lavendar, i'm not a color expert | 14:24 |
ddieterly | 'How can we scale'... | 14:25 |
ddieterly | who dat? | 14:25 |
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ddieterly | got to be daemontool | 14:25 |
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domhnallw | Whoever it is, please state your name and, erm, colour? | 14:25 |
yangyapeng | i guess daemontool ? | 14:25 |
domhnallw | :p | 14:25 |
daemontool | it's me yes | 14:25 |
slashme | domhnallw: usualy, for cli arguments | 14:26 |
daemontool | first of all, you are welcome | 14:26 |
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daemontool | :) | 14:26 |
daemontool | ok | 14:26 |
yangyapeng | haha :) I see the patch in gerrit | 14:26 |
slashme | Adding is no poblem | 14:26 |
slashme | removing needs to be deprecated for a release cycle | 14:26 |
ddieterly | daemontool just put your name on a color so that we know who it is | 14:26 |
ddieterly | daemontool thank you | 14:27 |
domhnallw | Okay, they're both you :) | 14:27 |
domhnallw | Thanks folks. | 14:27 |
domhnallw | Now, back on topic. | 14:27 |
daemontool | so, getting back to serious things | 14:27 |
domhnallw | CLI arguments for the various elements of freezer I believe? | 14:27 |
timothyb89 | one example I was wondering about was fixing the '--no-incremental' argument type (string -> boolean) | 14:28 |
daemontool | how do we backup large data set size, | 14:28 |
daemontool | without re reading all the data every time_ | 14:28 |
daemontool | ? | 14:28 |
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ddieterly | daemontool what is the current issue with the current implementation now? | 14:29 |
daemontool | that you need to re read all the data every time | 14:29 |
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daemontool | I mean not now | 14:30 |
daemontool | because we do not support block based incremental | 14:30 |
daemontool | so we check only file inode changes | 14:30 |
ddieterly | would a different engine besides tar solve some of that? | 14:30 |
daemontool | it depends on the engine | 14:31 |
daemontool | dar nope | 14:31 |
ddieterly | ok, so a different engine may help with that | 14:31 |
daemontool | so the problem is that if you have 1TB | 14:31 |
timothyb89 | I think it would have to be a different engine, right? | 14:31 |
daemontool | yes | 14:31 |
daemontool | you read it today | 14:31 |
daemontool | compute the block hashes | 14:31 |
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daemontool | or anything that keep track of blocks state | 14:32 |
ddieterly | ok, dumb idea, why don't users just back up entire volumes of the cloud hosts? | 14:32 |
daemontool | ddieterly, ok, no incremental? | 14:32 |
daemontool | if we have a 1TB | 14:32 |
ddieterly | use a huge net instead of trying to pick up each little fishy | 14:32 |
domhnallw | Incremental backups are designed to save space, right? Just save the changes rather than having multiple copies of near-identical data? | 14:32 |
domhnallw | I can't see when that wouldn't be at least desirable. | 14:33 |
daemontool | so let's say we have a volume of 1 TB today | 14:33 |
daemontool | we execute a volume backup today | 14:33 |
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daemontool | what do we do tomorrow? | 14:33 |
daemontool | backup it the whole volume again? | 14:33 |
daemontool | if we do incremental | 14:33 |
ddieterly | daemontool incremental? | 14:33 |
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daemontool | then we need to check the block differences with yesterday execution | 14:34 |
daemontool | but every time we do a backup | 14:34 |
daemontool | we need to re read the 1TB | 14:34 |
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daemontool | now thing if we have 500 volumes, 1TB each | 14:34 |
daemontool | every time we need to re read 500TB | 14:34 |
daemontool | that does not scale.... | 14:34 |
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daemontool | so, how do we scale? :( | 14:34 |
ddieterly | so, you propose to check inodes instead of the data itself? | 14:34 |
daemontool | ddieterly, that's how we do things now with tar | 14:35 |
daemontool | and with that approach everyday we backup 1TB | 14:35 |
daemontool | each time | 14:35 |
daemontool | fast but not efficient | 14:35 |
daemontool | this is important | 14:35 |
daemontool | because in enterprise environment | 14:35 |
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ddieterly | so, is there an efficient way to do this? | 14:35 |
daemontool | 1PB of storage start to be common | 14:35 |
domhnallw | Throwing hardware at the problem is only ever a stop-gap solution. | 14:35 |
ddieterly | what do other backup solutions do to handle this? | 14:35 |
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daemontool | we need to adopt something, that track the blocks changed in the fs | 14:35 |
daemontool | then the data is written | 14:36 |
ddieterly | daemontool are you proposing a solution? | 14:36 |
daemontool | by the application | 14:36 |
ddieterly | omg | 14:36 |
daemontool | so for instance | 14:36 |
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daemontool | well this is a discussion had with a customer | 14:36 |
daemontool | not sure about the solution | 14:36 |
ddieterly | does anybody do this? is there a precedent for this? | 14:36 |
daemontool | so zfs keep the hashtable of changed blocks in the fs | 14:37 |
domhnallw | It sounds a lot like Dropbox if I'm honest :) | 14:37 |
ddieterly | sounds like you want to write a logging fs | 14:37 |
ddieterly | domhnallw don't be honest, lie to us, we like that better ;-) | 14:37 |
daemontool | ddieterly, nope, I think we need to support that with 1 FS that provides that at least | 14:37 |
daemontool | but I don't know about the solution | 14:37 |
domhnallw | It would seem to me that doing filesystem-specific stuff might not be the cleverest solution in an open environment? | 14:38 |
daemontool | if we solve this, we provide enterprise grade backups | 14:38 |
slashme | That's something we should investigate | 14:38 |
domhnallw | Yep. | 14:38 |
daemontool | ok | 14:38 |
daemontool | :( | 14:38 |
daemontool | :) | 14:38 |
slashme | And I think this is a topic for the midcycle | 14:38 |
daemontool | next | 14:38 |
domhnallw | Okay. | 14:38 |
daemontool | yes definetely | 14:38 |
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domhnallw | #topic Tenant resources backup (relates to backup as a service) | 14:38 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Tenant resources backup (relates to backup as a service) (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:39 | |
domhnallw | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/freezer/+spec/tenant-backup/ | 14:39 |
slashme | We said no to this | 14:39 |
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daemontool | ah ok | 14:39 |
daemontool | sorry | 14:39 |
slashme | For two reasons | 14:39 |
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slashme | 1 Way to much code to implement and maintain to support this (we need to map every api calls for every OpenStack services) | 14:39 |
daemontool | this was about also what the people asked for in the summit, during the design session | 14:40 |
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daemontool | but if we do not want to provide that | 14:40 |
daemontool | fine for me | 14:40 |
daemontool | :) | 14:40 |
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slashme | 2 This is basicaly what Smaug does and they are a step ahead of us on that topic | 14:40 |
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domhnallw | Okay, so moving on? | 14:40 |
domhnallw | We've already covered this topic I think: ' How do we scale? (i.e. use case backup a data set of 500TB) ' | 14:41 |
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domhnallw | #topic ' How do we scale? (i.e. use case backup a data set of 500TB) ' | 14:41 |
*** openstack changes topic to "' How do we scale? (i.e. use case backup a data set of 500TB) ' (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:41 | |
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domhnallw | I'm putting it in for completeness but I think we've just had this discussion. | 14:41 |
domhnallw | Anyone? | 14:41 |
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domhnallw | Right. Next topic? | 14:42 |
domhnallw | #topic Add more back end storages (AWS S3?) | 14:42 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Add more back end storages (AWS S3?) (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:42 | |
domhnallw | This is from daemontool again. | 14:43 |
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domhnallw | Again, we've been here a bit already. | 14:43 |
domhnallw | Think we can skip, that okay? | 14:43 |
daemontool | what was the outcome in brief, sorry? | 14:43 |
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domhnallw | We have an action to generate a requirements document to look at what we'd need here. | 14:44 |
slashme | That will be easy once the agent refactoring is completed | 14:44 |
domhnallw | (for any engines we'd consider) | 14:44 |
daemontool | ok | 14:44 |
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domhnallw | Good to move on? Or am I rushing things? | 14:44 |
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daemontool | domhnallw, good good | 14:45 |
domhnallw | Okay. | 14:45 |
domhnallw | #topic Add multiple snapshotting technologies, not only LVM or cinder volumes only. We need to integrate with 3PP Storage snapshotting APIs. | 14:45 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Add multiple snapshotting technologies, not only LVM or cinder volumes only. We need to integrate with 3PP Storage snapshotting APIs. (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:45 | |
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daemontool | that'd be about interacting directly with the back end storage to generate snapshot | 14:46 |
daemontool | like VNX, 3PAR, etc | 14:46 |
daemontool | zfs, btrfs, etc | 14:47 |
domhnallw | So I guess we'd need to see if anyone has a wishlist of vendor and/or technologies it'd be preferred to support? | 14:47 |
domhnallw | vendors* | 14:47 |
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daemontool | let's start with the technologies directly related with the companies we work for, that'd easier for all of us to justify time | 14:48 |
daemontool | to invest on it | 14:48 |
daemontool | ? | 14:48 |
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domhnallw | Seems sensible. Would we need to devise a minimum set of supported actions each technology would need to be able to implement (or work around), or is this already in place? | 14:49 |
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slashme | daemontool: Same answer | 14:49 |
slashme | Easy once the agent refactoring is completed | 14:50 |
* domhnallw thought it was "no for two reasons" :) | 14:50 | |
slashme | It will just be add a new snapshot plugin | 14:50 |
daemontool | ok | 14:50 |
domhnallw | Next? | 14:51 |
slashme | Moreover snapshot plugins will be the simplest | 14:51 |
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slashme | domhnallw: yes | 14:51 |
domhnallw | #topic Fix freezer-scheduler use trigger cron | 14:51 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Fix freezer-scheduler use trigger cron (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:51 | |
domhnallw | From yangyapeng | 14:51 |
yangyapeng | hello | 14:52 |
domhnallw | hi :) | 14:52 |
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yangyapeng | if someone has tested schedule_date and start_date job_schedule | 14:52 |
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yangyapeng | I have some test about cron trigger in freezer-schedule, cron is is unvaivable | 14:53 |
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domhnallw | So are we saying cron is unavailable/unmocked in the testing environment, or...? | 14:54 |
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slashme | I think we are saying it is just not working | 14:54 |
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yangyapeng | yeah | 14:54 |
domhnallw | Oh :) | 14:54 |
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yangyapeng | it is not working , i will fix it | 14:55 |
domhnallw | As an aside, I was a bit confused looking at the API where some dates/times were expressed as Unix timestamps and others as ISO8601 for no immediately obvious reason... | 14:55 |
domhnallw | That might be for another time though. | 14:55 |
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domhnallw | So yangyapeng is that an action for you? | 14:56 |
yangyapeng | yeah, | 14:56 |
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domhnallw | #action yangyapeng Fix cron/scheduling issues in freezer-scheduler | 14:57 |
domhnallw | :) | 14:57 |
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yangyapeng | :) | 14:57 |
domhnallw | Next? | 14:57 |
domhnallw | #topic Improve the volumes backup through the Cinder APIs (i.e retention, delete, list backups, metadata) | 14:57 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Improve the volumes backup through the Cinder APIs (i.e retention, delete, list backups, metadata) (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:57 | |
domhnallw | First of all, what's bad/wrong with the current state of this? | 14:58 |
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domhnallw | daemontool ? | 14:58 |
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domhnallw | We're running low on time here, I've noticed. | 14:59 |
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yangyapeng | ping iceyao | 14:59 |
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iceyao | here | 14:59 |
daemontool | yes | 14:59 |
daemontool | sorry | 14:59 |
daemontool | so we do not remove old backups currently | 14:59 |
domhnallw | Right folks, we may need to just jump to the reviews that need looking at soon... | 14:59 |
yangyapeng | the topic is your? | 14:59 |
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daemontool | when executing cinder backups using cinder api | 14:59 |
daemontool | let's go to the chan | 15:00 |
domhnallw | Okay. | 15:00 |
domhnallw | Pending reviews? | 15:00 |
domhnallw | And then we're wrap up. | 15:00 |
domhnallw | First, a "hot pickle": https://review.openstack.org/#/c/331880 | 15:00 |
EinstCrazy | Currently, volumes backup cannot be delete or list by freezer | 15:00 |
EinstCrazy | Native cinder backup | 15:00 |
EinstCrazy | So, we need to work for it | 15:00 |
bswartz | ¬_¬ | 15:00 |
daemontool | I think we need to move guys | 15:00 |
daemontool | now there's another meeting here | 15:00 |
domhnallw | Yep, will we close this out now? | 15:00 |
daemontool | yes | 15:00 |
domhnallw | #endmeeting freezer | 15:01 |
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:01 | |
openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 30 15:01:00 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
slashme | Thank you domhnallw | 15:01 |
openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-06-30-14.00.html | 15:01 |
openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-06-30-14.00.txt | 15:01 |
openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-06-30-14.00.log.html | 15:01 |
domhnallw | sorry bswartz :) | 15:01 |
bswartz | thanks freezer folks | 15:01 |
domhnallw | Later. | 15:01 |
domhnallw | Thanks again. | 15:01 |
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bswartz | #startmeeting manila | 15:01 |
openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 30 15:01:28 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:01 | |
openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:01 |
toabctl | hi | 15:01 |
cknight | Hi | 15:01 |
dustins | \o | 15:01 |
gouthamr_ | hello o/ | 15:01 |
jseiler | hi | 15:01 |
vponomaryov | hello | 15:01 |
tbarron | hi | 15:01 |
bswartz | hello | 15:01 |
ganso | hello | 15:01 |
aovchinnikov_ | hi | 15:01 |
zhongjun_ | hello | 15:01 |
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xyang1 | hi | 15:01 |
MikeG451 | Hi | 15:01 |
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bswartz | #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings | 15:02 |
bswartz | amazing that we covered about 16 hours worth of topics in the last 2 days and we still have more things to discuss! | 15:02 |
bswartz | I'm going to reorder the agenda here and cover zhongjun's topic first | 15:03 |
zhongjun_ | thanks | 15:03 |
bswartz | #topic share backup spec discussion | 15:03 |
*** openstack changes topic to "share backup spec discussion (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:03 | |
zhongjun_ | In share backup spec, there are two way to implement share backup | 15:04 |
bswartz | zhongjun_: we discussed this topic briefly yesterday, but we didn't spend too much time on it since you couldn't attend | 15:04 |
bswartz | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/330306 | 15:04 |
zhongjun_ | bswartz: I saw it, thanks | 15:04 |
zhongjun_ | 1. implement share backup at the storage driver level, may ensure that there is no metadata loss, | 15:04 |
zhongjun_ | and could support the backup policy. | 15:04 |
zhongjun_ | (The policy means the backup driver could have its own backup strategies. According to the backup strategy to create multiple backup copies) | 15:04 |
zhongjun_ | 2. implement share backup in a generalized way(copying files from src share snapshot to des share), may not prevent metadata loss. | 15:04 |
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zhongjun_ | Does we need to add a flag in backup api, to check whether the metadata is allowed to be lossy, | 15:05 |
zhongjun_ | like the migration feature? such as: --lossy, | 15:05 |
bswartz | #2 is where we should start | 15:05 |
bswartz | that's what we did with share migration | 15:05 |
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bswartz | we started with the "fallback approach" and now we're starting to add driver-assisted migration | 15:06 |
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dustins | Agreed, let's start with the general way then go with specialized ways once we get the general way situated | 15:06 |
bswartz | I think we can use similar flags to the migration API | 15:07 |
bswartz | --preserve_metadata (default to true, must set it to false to allow fallback backup implementation) | 15:07 |
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zhongjun_ | agreed with use similar flags | 15:07 |
bswartz | actually now that I write that it seems weird | 15:07 |
bswartz | ganso: that's how migration works right? | 15:08 |
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ganso | bswartz: yes | 15:09 |
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bswartz | it just seems weird that you'll always have to specify --preserve_metadata False with every backup call | 15:09 |
ganso | bswartz: indeed | 15:10 |
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bswartz | and there's another issue now that I think about it | 15:10 |
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bswartz | an issue which the cinder guys already discovered | 15:10 |
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ganso | bswartz: maybe we should at least attempt to have a driver interface or a mechanism that drivers could start working, instead of only having the fallback codepath | 15:10 |
bswartz | when you're doing a migration you know the destination and can determine if an optimized migration can be performed | 15:11 |
bswartz | when you're doing a backup, you don't know the ultimate restore destination at the time of the backup | 15:11 |
zhongjun_ | but the preserve_metadata is really needed. | 15:11 |
bswartz | therefore even if you could preserve the metadata on the backup, there's no guarantee that you could preserve the metadata on a restore, or that restore would work at all to a different backend | 15:12 |
zhongjun_ | I think we could add a backup scheduler | 15:12 |
bswartz | well there's a basic decision that needs to be made | 15:12 |
bswartz | should backups be restorable to any backend, or only back to the same backend that made them? | 15:12 |
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bswartz | the cinder folks decided on the former | 15:13 |
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bswartz | which was easy for them to do because block storage backups are fairly storage-neutral | 15:13 |
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tbarron | i think there is value in being able to get data back even if you can't get all the filesystem metadata | 15:14 |
bswartz | if we allow the latter approach, we need to think carefully about the end user impacts | 15:14 |
cknight | tbarron: +1 Restoring from backups of non-replicated shares is still a form of DR. | 15:15 |
bswartz | tbarron: the problem I see is that a vendor's backup format might not be convertible into a tarball-style of backup in order to do a metadata-losing restore | 15:15 |
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bswartz | I suppose we could simply require that it is | 15:15 |
tbarron | or allow 2 styles of backup? | 15:15 |
bswartz | which would address this particular problem | 15:15 |
bswartz | tbarron: that would be silly | 15:16 |
ganso | bswartz: the backup restore could be similar to a migration | 15:16 |
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bswartz | either we require that you can restore to a dumb backend or we don't -- if we require it, then vendors would have to make whatever compromises necessary to allow that, including possible backing up everything in 2 different formats | 15:16 |
bswartz | s/possible/possibly/ | 15:17 |
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tbarron | 2 difft formats possibly is more what i was intending | 15:17 |
bswartz | but it's not a choice the user makes, it would be a choice the vendor makes | 15:17 |
bswartz | and doing so would be obviously wasteful | 15:18 |
tbarron | don't intentionally defeat vendor value addon, just require the common denominator in any case | 15:18 |
bswartz | maybe we can poll vendors here and find out if this is a problem in practice | 15:18 |
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bswartz | does any storage vendor have a proprietary backup scheme which makes it impossible to restore back to a simple tarball format? | 15:19 |
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* bswartz thinks about netapp... | 15:19 | |
ganso | bswartz: if we standardize that a backup can assume semantics similar of a share, that it can be mounted and accessed, then it can be copied back with a fallback approach. If it is acceptible the case where a backup can be performed without metadata loss via driver but then may be restore via driver or via fallback with metadata loss, then looks valuable | 15:19 |
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bswartz | ganso: that might preclude some implementations which could otherwise satisfy all our requirements | 15:20 |
bswartz | I'm pretty sure that whatever technology netapp might end up using, we could restore to a tarball like format | 15:21 |
ganso | bswartz: yes, the tarball may be something useful, but only if everybody supports. A more generic approach would be more restrictive, but if every vendor supports it may be better | 15:21 |
bswartz | well I agree that if the "backup format" looks like a NFS share you can mount, then we can have some common reusable restore logic | 15:22 |
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bswartz | I wonder if we could define something slightly better for CIFS shares | 15:22 |
bswartz | better than "tarball-like" | 15:22 |
ganso | bswartz: humm, why something better for CIFS? shouldn't backups be protocol-agnostic? | 15:23 |
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bswartz | Is there any kind of tarball-like standard for Windows which preserves NTFS metadata? | 15:23 |
zhongjun_ | define diffenrent restore way between NFS and CIFS share? | 15:23 |
bswartz | I'm presuming that backup would have a protocol and you would restore to the same protocol share | 15:23 |
tbarron | http://linux.die.net/man/8/ntfsclone ? | 15:24 |
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bswartz | thus a CIFS share backup restored to another CIFS share might preserve CIFS metadata better | 15:24 |
ganso | bswartz: humm, I assumed we mostly concerced about data | 15:24 |
vkmc | wouldn't it be sane to start by implementing backup/restore for the same backend? | 15:24 |
bswartz | tbarron: that's more like a qcow-style disk image | 15:25 |
vkmc | having driver neutral backup/restore sounds cool, but not really sure how much frequent is that use case | 15:25 |
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bswartz | vkmc: that would create vendor lock in -- once you had a substantial number of backups, if they were unrestorable to other backends it would be very hard to add new backends from a different vendor | 15:26 |
vkmc | hm, true that | 15:26 |
bswartz | presumably people like manila because we provide a vendor neutral interface | 15:26 |
vponomaryov | bswartz: most deployments use single type of storage | 15:27 |
bswartz | vponomaryov: that's true -- but for different reasons | 15:27 |
vponomaryov | bswartz: so, restore-to-the-same-type-of-backend is the most likely use case | 15:27 |
vkmc | my point is... if you choose to use a vendor fs solution, how common it is that you decide to change it? | 15:27 |
bswartz | yes and it's a case we should optimize, but not a case we should depend on | 15:27 |
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bswartz | My view is that people who want to be locked into a vendor would use that vendor's own specific tools. People who choose manila do so because they want to start with one vendor and have freedom to change in the future without having to change their tools (even if they never actually change) | 15:28 |
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vkmc | ++ | 15:30 |
bswartz | that might not be true of all users, but I think it's true of enough users that we shouldn't betray them by adding new APIs which end up creating lockin | 15:30 |
bswartz | also this is the view the cinder community has expressed | 15:30 |
bswartz | I like the strategy of optimizing the common case of single vendor solutions while leaving the door open for interoperability | 15:31 |
bswartz | therefore a backup scheme which was guaranteed to be restorable to any backend (with possible metadata loss) seems like the direction we should go | 15:32 |
zhongjun_ | so, even if we use storage driver level to backup, we still need to support common restore way(to any backend)? | 15:32 |
bswartz | yes that's my opinion | 15:33 |
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bswartz | we can have optimized backup and optimized restore, but fallback backup always needs to work, and _fallback_restore_ always needs to work | 15:33 |
zhongjun_ | It seems I need to add a flag(such as --lossy) in restore API? | 15:34 |
bswartz | yes | 15:34 |
tbarron | yeah, but don't name it 'lossy' :) | 15:35 |
bswartz | although I think ganso would prefer --preserve-metadata=False | 15:35 |
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vponomaryov | "--lossy" does not refer to metadata directly | 15:35 |
ganso | bswartz: yes :) | 15:35 |
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vponomaryov | so, "--lossy" is ambiguous | 15:35 |
ganso | vponomaryov: a backup that may not preserve anything other than metadata is very less reliable | 15:35 |
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gouthamr | file level acls can still prevent some copies.. | 15:35 |
cknight | bswartz: how can fallback restore always work if the driver did something vendor specific for the backup? | 15:35 |
ganso | gouthamr: fallback copies as root | 15:36 |
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ganso | cknight: it would mount the backup and copy data as root | 15:36 |
bswartz | cknight: we would require vendors to make their vendor-specific thing reversible (so you can get a tarball back out) or else we don't allow it | 15:36 |
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bswartz | cknight: when I asked if that was a problem for any vendor nobody said anything | 15:37 |
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bswartz | zhongjun_: anything else regarding this topic? | 15:38 |
ganso | bswartz: I don't have the answer if my backend can do the tarball restore | 15:39 |
bswartz | zhongjun_: are you planning to deliver a working implementation for newton? time is pretty short | 15:39 |
ganso | bswartz: need to take a look at that | 15:39 |
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bswartz | ganso: yeah and not all vendors are here so we should leave that question open for a few weeks | 15:39 |
xyang1 | bswartz: I need to check that too | 15:39 |
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zhongjun_ | bswartz: now, that's it. | 15:40 |
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bswartz | my instinct tells me that most implementations should be able to mount their backup object and pull the filesystem out of it somehow | 15:41 |
vponomaryov | zhongjun_: do you have answer for bswartz's question? | 15:41 |
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zhongjun_ | bswartz: I am planning to do in newton | 15:41 |
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bswartz | zhongjun_: this proposal clearly calls under the "major feature" designation which means we need the code to be done by R-11 | 15:42 |
zhongjun_ | bswartz: yes, time is pretty short, before july 21, right? | 15:42 |
bswartz | yes that's the announced deadline | 15:43 |
bswartz | okay we have one more topic | 15:43 |
bswartz | #topic non-disruptive nfs-ganesha export modifications | 15:44 |
*** openstack changes topic to "non-disruptive nfs-ganesha export modifications (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:44 | |
bswartz | rraja: you're up | 15:44 |
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bswartz | #link https://sourceforge.net/p/nfs-ganesha/mailman/message/35173839 | 15:44 |
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rraja|afk | i just wanted to update that the problem with dynamic exports in ganesha still exists and being discussed | 15:44 |
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* bswartz is reading thread | 15:45 | |
rraja|afk | unfortunately it seems like it's not a top priority | 15:45 |
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aovchinnikov_ | has it been promoted to higher priority? | 15:45 |
vponomaryov | rraja|afk: not top priority for ganesha team? | 15:45 |
aovchinnikov_ | oh, I see | 15:45 |
rraja | yes | 15:45 |
bswartz | rraja: I understood it wasn't a high priority, but we were hoping you could make it a high priority | 15:45 |
aovchinnikov_ | do they have any estimate on when they plan to do something about it? | 15:46 |
bswartz | I think the argument is obvious | 15:46 |
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bswartz | it's silly to shutoff I/O to existing clients just to add access to an additional client | 15:46 |
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bswartz | I understand there are some more complexities in the actual implementation | 15:46 |
rraja | bswartz: i think the first step would be clearly state our need as well in that thread. | 15:47 |
bswartz | removing access is way more difficult to deal with than adding accesss | 15:47 |
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tbarron | so i think it would help if aovchinnikov_ and bswartz stated just what you are saying now in the thread | 15:47 |
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bswartz | if you think my voice carries more weight than rraja's I'll be happy to speak up there | 15:48 |
rraja | bswartz: that'd be great. | 15:48 |
tbarron | a different weight and tenor :) | 15:48 |
bswartz | I had assumed that someone inside redhat might have more influence | 15:48 |
tbarron | both voices are important | 15:48 |
* bswartz looks for his megaphone | 15:48 | |
rraja | bswartz: csaba and I'd already brought this up before a long while ago. | 15:48 |
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bswartz | is the nfs-ganesha ML one that requires you to subscribe before you can post? | 15:49 |
rraja | i'm not sure. | 15:49 |
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bswartz | well I'm already subscribed to 2 dozen mail lists, why not one more? | 15:49 |
bswartz | okay thanks for pointing out that thread rraja | 15:50 |
bswartz | #topic open discussion | 15:50 |
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:50 | |
bswartz | anything else for today? | 15:50 |
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jseiler | I had previously asked about submitting a new manila driver in newton for Dell FluidF | 15:50 |
jseiler | Due to internal dependencies, we are now targeting the new driver for submission early in ocata. Since we will submit in ocata, should I submit the blueprint after Newton releases? | 15:50 |
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bswartz | jseiler: it doesn't matter much | 15:50 |
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bswartz | I could target the BP to ocata any time | 15:51 |
bswartz | it would be good to make it clear to people that they shouldn't spend time during newton reviewing it though if it won't happen in this cycle | 15:51 |
jseiler | bswartz: so in the blueprint, should I just state this is for ocata. Or is there a field for that. sorry, new to this. | 15:51 |
bswartz | there's a field | 15:51 |
bswartz | IDK if the ocata release has been added to launchpad yet though | 15:52 |
bswartz | I'll have to check that | 15:52 |
jseiler | bswartz: ok, thanks | 15:52 |
bswartz | okay | 15:52 |
bswartz | next week the meeting is still on, despite the holiday in the US | 15:52 |
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tbarron | note that nvs-ganesha project is upstream, open source, deriving from plan 9. redhat develpers participate but don't *own* it. | 15:53 |
bswartz | I expect some of our US-based team members might be on vacation next week | 15:53 |
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bswartz | tbarron: it's not even packaged by canonical though | 15:54 |
tbarron | interesting | 15:54 |
bswartz | that tells me that interest in the project is pretty limited outside of redhat -- or that it's another case of redhat/canonical fighting | 15:54 |
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tbarron | https://github.com/nfs-ganesha/nfs-ganesha/wiki | 15:55 |
* bswartz wishes we could all just get along | 15:55 | |
tbarron | ^^^ for anyone who wants to contribute | 15:56 |
bswartz | tbarron: that wiki is in a pretty sorry state | 15:56 |
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bswartz | I went there looking for the 2.3 release bits and couldn't find them | 15:56 |
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vponomaryov | tbarron proposes to fix ganesha problem right away without any disscussions )) | 15:56 |
aovchinnikov_ | tbarron: they don't update it very often | 15:56 |
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bswartz | they're not on source force either last time I checked | 15:57 |
tbarron | my only point is who is "they". if we have a problem we can help fix. | 15:57 |
bswartz | sourceforge* | 15:57 |
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aovchinnikov_ | the collective entity behind nfs-ganesha project | 15:58 |
bswartz | okay we're at the end of our time | 15:58 |
aovchinnikov_ | while being open-source it still seems to be dominated by rh people | 15:58 |
bswartz | happy holiday weekend to those in the USA | 15:59 |
bswartz | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 30 15:59:22 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-06-30-15.01.html | 15:59 |
openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-06-30-15.01.txt | 15:59 |
openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-06-30-15.01.log.html | 15:59 |
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tmcpeak | o/ | 17:00 |
tmcpeak | #startmeeting security | 17:00 |
openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 30 17:00:15 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tmcpeak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:00 | |
openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'security' | 17:00 |
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ccneill | o/ | 17:00 |
tmcpeak | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-agenda | 17:00 |
mdong | o/ | 17:00 |
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woodster_ | o/ | 17:01 |
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lhinds | hi all | 17:01 |
unrahul | o/ | 17:01 |
gmurphy | hola | 17:01 |
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aastha | o/ | 17:01 |
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tmcpeak | some new faces it seems | 17:02 |
tmcpeak | that's good :) | 17:02 |
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ccneill | sup woodster_? long time no see | 17:02 |
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tkelsey | o/ | 17:02 |
woodster_ | ccneill: Hey Charles! Yeah I've been heads down on Nova of late | 17:02 |
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tmcpeak | allright, let's get rolling | 17:03 |
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tmcpeak | #topic Syntribos | 17:03 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Syntribos (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:03 | |
ccneill | kewl | 17:04 |
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browne | o/ | 17:04 |
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ccneill | so we just had our meeting with Nathan Buckner (OpenCAFE core dev) about removing OpenCAFE from syntribos | 17:04 |
ccneill | I think we've figured out most if not all of the action items for that transition | 17:04 |
ccneill | and once we've finished that, we'll be much closer to a stable product | 17:05 |
ccneill | we'll re-do our docs, etc. to reflect the new way of installing, configuring, and so on | 17:05 |
tmcpeak | sick | 17:05 |
ccneill | so from a "tool runner" perspective, that should stabilize things quite a bit | 17:05 |
ccneill | we'll still be modifying the internals a bit, so test writers will still have to bear with us O:-) | 17:05 |
michaelxin | o/ | 17:05 |
michaelxin | we have a new member from Intel joining us | 17:06 |
ccneill | but we're getting closer to stability there too | 17:06 |
tmcpeak | you guys targeting a release? | 17:06 |
mdong | also, big thanks to browne and tkelsey for helping out with reviews! | 17:06 |
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tmcpeak | I went to OWASP, got me thinking this would be a great talk | 17:06 |
tkelsey | mdong: your welcome :) | 17:06 |
browne | np | 17:06 |
unrahul | yup browne thankyou! its helping us a lot in maintaining the codebase | 17:06 |
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ccneill | we're holding off on presentations for the time being (though we're getting closer to the point where we might focus on this) | 17:07 |
ccneill | yeah, thanks tkelsey and browne! very appreciated | 17:07 |
michaelxin | 17:07 | |
michaelxin | +1 | 17:07 |
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tmcpeak | cool | 17:08 |
ccneill | tmcpeak: I don't know that we have a firm release schedule yet, but I think our path will become pretty clear in the coming paths | 17:08 |
ccneill | coming weeks* | 17:08 |
ccneill | derp | 17:08 |
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tmcpeak | awesome, expect a bunch of hacks on that at midcycle too | 17:08 |
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ccneill | yep yep | 17:08 |
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ccneill | do we have IBM Austin locked down for sure? | 17:08 |
unrahul | welcome aastha ! to the team. | 17:08 |
ccneill | yes! how could I forget. we have a new team member from Intel joining us this week | 17:09 |
tmcpeak | Rob told me it's mostly set but not set in stone | 17:09 |
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ccneill | aastha: want to introduce yourself a little? | 17:09 |
tmcpeak | think we're waiting on word from Fernando | 17:09 |
aastha | hello everyone. I am an intern with Intel | 17:09 |
aastha | just started working with the team just a day ago | 17:10 |
michaelxin | welcome | 17:10 |
tmcpeak | aastha: welcome! | 17:10 |
aastha | feeling excited to be part of syntribos | 17:10 |
tmcpeak | it's a good project | 17:10 |
tmcpeak | great resume builder ;) | 17:10 |
ccneill | yep, and we're glad to have all the help we can get :) | 17:10 |
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aastha | :) thank you everyone | 17:10 |
ccneill | let's see.. I think that's about it for us | 17:10 |
tmcpeak | cool, thanks Syntribos team | 17:11 |
tmcpeak | #topic OSSN | 17:11 |
*** openstack changes topic to "OSSN (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:11 | |
tmcpeak | hyakuhei can't make it today but I think he floated this idea of adding contributor details to OSSN | 17:11 |
tmcpeak | would like to get everybody's thoughts on that | 17:11 |
tmcpeak | I think it's a great idea | 17:11 |
dg___ | whats the motivation? | 17:11 |
tmcpeak | I havne't talked to him about it, but I assume it's to incentivize people to work on OSSN more | 17:12 |
tmcpeak | and help get work time allocated to it | 17:12 |
lhinds | tmcpeak: sounds good to me, but I would be biased :P | 17:12 |
tmcpeak | lhinds: did you propose it? | 17:12 |
lhinds | No, I did not | 17:12 |
tmcpeak | oh, because you have one coming out? :) | 17:12 |
lhinds | just I have a note pending (which we can get on to next) | 17:12 |
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lhinds | yup | 17:12 |
dg___ | my concern is that it will lead to the author of the OSSNs getting a lot of dumb emails asking how to reconfigure some broken service | 17:12 |
ccneill | I concur that it probably helps people get time for it | 17:12 |
ccneill | dg___: that's a good point | 17:13 |
ccneill | maybe only provide IRC handle? | 17:13 |
tmcpeak | dg___: it is… | 17:13 |
lhinds | but putting that aside, i think its a good idea. they take a fair amount of research and thought | 17:13 |
tmcpeak | I mean author name and company without email could probably be fine though | 17:13 |
dg___ | tmcpeak +1 | 17:13 |
tmcpeak | or I can just put dg@hpe.com | 17:13 |
ccneill | haha | 17:13 |
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dg___ | cheers bro | 17:13 |
lhinds | Author, Company +1 | 17:14 |
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ccneill | yeah, I think name + company is probably good | 17:14 |
dg___ | +1 | 17:14 |
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dg___ | can i get a 'this OSSN was sponsored by HPE' at the top of all of mine? | 17:14 |
lhinds | all your ossn are belong to us | 17:14 |
tmcpeak | #startvote | 17:14 |
openstack | Unable to parse vote topic and options. | 17:14 |
gmurphy | lol | 17:14 |
tmcpeak | I can't IRC gud | 17:15 |
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tmcpeak | if anybody doesn't like this idea say so | 17:15 |
ccneill | who doesn't like getting credit for doing stuff? ;) | 17:15 |
tmcpeak | #startvote OSSN author attribution? Yes, No | 17:15 |
openstack | Begin voting on: OSSN author attribution? Valid vote options are Yes, No. | 17:15 |
openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 17:15 |
tmcpeak | #vote Yes | 17:16 |
dg___ | yarp | 17:16 |
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ccneill | #vote Yes | 17:16 |
dg___ | wait #vote Yes | 17:16 |
lhinds | #vote yes | 17:16 |
sicarie | #vote No | 17:16 |
gmurphy | so are we going to retrofit it or just for new ones? | 17:16 |
lhinds | Is it case senstive? | 17:16 |
tmcpeak | gmurphy: great Q, we should retrofit I think | 17:17 |
tmcpeak | wouldn't be much work | 17:17 |
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tmcpeak | I wish nkinder was here, I'd make sure he likes it | 17:17 |
tmcpeak | #showvote | 17:17 |
openstack | Yes (3): lhinds, ccneill, tmcpeak | 17:17 |
dg___ | can we have a second vote if we dont like the outcome of the first vote? (british problems) | 17:17 |
openstack | No (1): sicarie | 17:17 |
tmcpeak | #endvote | 17:17 |
openstack | Voted on "OSSN author attribution?" Results are | 17:17 |
openstack | Yes (3): lhinds, ccneill, tmcpeak | 17:17 |
openstack | No (1): sicarie | 17:17 |
sicarie | dg__ lol | 17:17 |
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gmurphy | aye! | 17:17 |
ccneill | lolol dg___ | 17:17 |
tmcpeak | ok! voting has ended. OSSG is leaving the OpenStack Union | 17:17 |
gmurphy | i forgot to vote.. | 17:18 |
tkelsey | wait what | 17:18 |
gmurphy | lol | 17:18 |
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ccneill | oh noez | 17:18 |
sicarie | REVOTE | 17:18 |
tmcpeak | :P | 17:18 |
ccneill | I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND MY OPTIONS | 17:18 |
gmurphy | ossnexit | 17:18 |
lhinds | <googles: 'what is ossn?'> | 17:18 |
tkelsey | as a UK guy I have had enough of this voting out of things lol | 17:18 |
tmcpeak | lol | 17:18 |
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mdong | haha! | 17:18 |
dg___ | ooops i broke the ossp :( | 17:19 |
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tmcpeak | any volunteers to retrofit contributors? | 17:19 |
dg___ | everyone to do their own? | 17:19 |
tkelsey | dg___: +1 | 17:19 |
tmcpeak | that's a bunch of changes though... | 17:19 |
dg___ | although - i cant remember what i wrote | 17:19 |
tmcpeak | seems like it makes more sense to do one big change | 17:19 |
dg___ | tmcpeak +1 | 17:19 |
tkelsey | do we have an example template for how it should look now? | 17:19 |
lhinds | I will do it | 17:20 |
tmcpeak | tkelsey: no. No we do not | 17:20 |
dg___ | thanks lhinds :) | 17:20 |
tmcpeak | lhinds: awesome! thanks! | 17:20 |
michaelxin | +1 | 17:20 |
lhinds | One big patch ok? and I don't think any tox nonsense :) | 17:20 |
tmcpeak | #action lhinds to retrofit OSSN contributors | 17:20 |
tmcpeak | lhinds: yeah, one big patch is good | 17:20 |
tmcpeak | lhinds: you love tox... | 17:20 |
lhinds | I will use stackaltics | 17:20 |
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ccneill | #action buy lhinds a beer | 17:20 |
tmcpeak | ccneill: +1 | 17:20 |
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tkelsey | lhinds: :) thanks | 17:21 |
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lhinds | no worries | 17:21 |
tmcpeak | lhinds: want to talk about your OSSN? | 17:21 |
lhinds | sure: | 17:21 |
lhinds | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/313896/13/security-notes/OSSN-0068 | 17:21 |
lhinds | so it should be primed for a +2 now | 17:21 |
tmcpeak | gate is still pissed at you... | 17:22 |
lhinds | had a few eyes go over it | 17:22 |
tmcpeak | otherwise I'm +2 | 17:22 |
lhinds | tmcpeak: yep.... | 17:22 |
gmurphy | might be able to pull info from gerrti/git? | 17:22 |
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lhinds | so the gate is my config file goes over the punch card limit | 17:22 |
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lhinds | so do I break URL's / configs to keep a silly gate happy? | 17:22 |
tmcpeak | oh | 17:22 |
tmcpeak | no… ok let's final review and merge | 17:23 |
lhinds | I noted other notes mindfully do the same. | 17:23 |
dg___ | ok I'll have a review | 17:23 |
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tmcpeak | we've never broken urls before | 17:23 |
lhinds | so I think its ok | 17:23 |
tmcpeak | yeah | 17:23 |
dg___ | +1 im sure one of my ossns breaks the gate | 17:23 |
tmcpeak | s/one/all | 17:23 |
lhinds | but I don't mind changing, if that is the consensus | 17:23 |
tmcpeak | lhinds: nah, leave it | 17:23 |
tmcpeak | let's get this merged today | 17:23 |
dg___ | nah dont break urls | 17:24 |
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tmcpeak | somebody took my core in docs | 17:24 |
* tmcpeak stink eye to sicarie | 17:24 | |
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tmcpeak | sicarie: approvsies on this at some point? | 17:25 |
dg___ | sicarie is too busy having lunch with the execs | 17:25 |
tmcpeak | baller | 17:26 |
tmcpeak | allright, anything else for notes? | 17:26 |
sicarie | sorry, i’m here | 17:26 |
sicarie | was grabbing free food | 17:26 |
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sicarie | we have a compliance section waiting on a doc core +2 | 17:27 |
sicarie | and a few hanging minor nites | 17:27 |
sicarie | nits, too | 17:27 |
tmcpeak | haha | 17:27 |
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tmcpeak | sicarie: that's good but I was trying to bum a review for lhinds OSSN | 17:27 |
sicarie | :P | 17:27 |
gmurphy | haha | 17:27 |
sicarie | yeah, I can do that | 17:27 |
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tmcpeak | thank you | 17:27 |
* sicarie reads gud | 17:27 | |
dg___ | sicarie https://review.openstack.org/#/c/313896/13 | 17:28 |
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sicarie | thx | 17:28 |
tmcpeak | lhinds: actually do another one with the contributor info ;) | 17:28 |
lhinds | good point tmcpeak | 17:28 |
tmcpeak | cool | 17:28 |
lhinds | do we want it at the top or bottom? (the author , comapny) | 17:28 |
tmcpeak | let's roll to midcycle | 17:28 |
tmcpeak | hmm | 17:28 |
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tmcpeak | good q | 17:28 |
tmcpeak | thoughts? | 17:28 |
lhinds | maybe under the title | 17:29 |
tmcpeak | probably bottom | 17:29 |
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tmcpeak | I think we want to lead with the exec summary | 17:29 |
lhinds | sure | 17:29 |
dg___ | under the exec summary? | 17:29 |
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lhinds | will send a quick amend now | 17:29 |
tmcpeak | I was thinking at the end with the rest of the metadata | 17:29 |
lhinds | yep, that makes sense | 17:30 |
tmcpeak | #startvote Should we put the author at the bottom and reverse Brexit? Yes, No | 17:30 |
openstack | Begin voting on: Should we put the author at the bottom and reverse Brexit? Valid vote options are Yes, No. | 17:30 |
openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 17:30 |
tmcpeak | #endvote | 17:30 |
openstack | Voted on "Should we put the author at the bottom and reverse Brexit?" Results are | 17:30 |
tmcpeak | :P | 17:30 |
tmcpeak | #topic Midcycle | 17:31 |
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*** openstack changes topic to "Midcycle (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:31 | |
tmcpeak | as mentioned earlier Fernando is finalizing the room at IBM | 17:31 |
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ccneill | shweet | 17:31 |
tmcpeak | lol, did the dates change? | 17:32 |
tmcpeak | Security: August 24-26 or 17 - 19 (Most likely) | 17:32 |
tmcpeak | looks like Rob did a little switch-a-roony | 17:32 |
dg___ | sigh, i thought this was settled, i got travel quotes on the old dates | 17:32 |
tmcpeak | yeah I thought so too | 17:33 |
ccneill | >_< | 17:33 |
tmcpeak | how's it looking dg? you think you can make it? | 17:33 |
dg___ | maybe, need to get the dates finalised asap so I can try and organise funding | 17:33 |
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tmcpeak | yeah | 17:33 |
dg___ | it was looking good until chair6 left | 17:33 |
dg___ | now, maybe | 17:33 |
tmcpeak | allright, I added a note for next time we'll make sure to nail these down | 17:34 |
tmcpeak | especially for UK travel people need to know ahead of time | 17:34 |
tmcpeak | allright | 17:34 |
tmcpeak | that's probably it for midcycle | 17:34 |
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tmcpeak | #topic Docs | 17:34 |
lhinds | tmcpeak: thats if we still have passports | 17:34 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:34 | |
tmcpeak | lol | 17:34 |
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tmcpeak | sicarie: poke | 17:34 |
sicarie | haha, same as above, compliance addition waiting on docs +2 | 17:34 |
sicarie | a efw nits | 17:35 |
sicarie | nothing major | 17:35 |
sicarie | I’m still mostly out of it until next week | 17:35 |
tmcpeak | ok | 17:35 |
tmcpeak | where's elmiko been? | 17:35 |
sicarie | he’s been working his Sahara stuff | 17:35 |
tmcpeak | ahh | 17:35 |
sicarie | I think he’s officially started his sabbatical from the OSSP | 17:35 |
sicarie | hopefully not for too long | 17:35 |
tmcpeak | he's on sabbatical? | 17:35 |
sicarie | no | 17:36 |
tmcpeak | from OSSP | 17:36 |
sicarie | he’s slammed with a project | 17:36 |
tmcpeak | ahh ok | 17:36 |
tmcpeak | #topic Threat Analysis | 17:36 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Threat Analysis (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:36 | |
tmcpeak | dg___: | 17:36 |
tmcpeak | what it do? | 17:36 |
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dg___ | noop unfortunately | 17:37 |
dg___ | Im slammed with the day job, and afaik rob hasnt touched it | 17:37 |
lhinds | so I am interested in helping out with #topic - to put me on the radar | 17:37 |
tmcpeak | ok | 17:37 |
dg___ | i did send someone an email about TA today thou... | 17:37 |
dg___ | lhinds awesome | 17:37 |
lhinds | I guess I need to read up, is there a spec or doc anywhere | 17:38 |
dg___ | the Designate guys have reached out to me (via the internal chain) and asked if our internal TA will be ok for the vuln-managed tag | 17:38 |
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gmurphy | #link https://github.com/openstack/security-doc/blob/master/security-threat-analysis/source/threat-analysis-process.rst | 17:38 |
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lhinds | thanks | 17:38 |
gmurphy | #link https://github.com/openstack/security-doc/blob/master/security-threat-analysis/source/templates/architecture-page.rst | 17:38 |
tmcpeak | sdake: you around? | 17:38 |
gmurphy | from dg___'s emails.. | 17:38 |
dg___ | lhinds https://github.com/openstack/security-doc/tree/master/security-threat-analysis/source | 17:38 |
tmcpeak | err, is he waiting on us to do something? | 17:38 |
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dg___ | tmcpeak i asked rob if he had followed up and he assured me he has, so maybe he forgot how to use reply-all | 17:39 |
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tmcpeak | ahh ok | 17:39 |
tmcpeak | well let's punt for this week | 17:39 |
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tmcpeak | #topic AOB | 17:39 |
*** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:39 | |
tmcpeak | anything else? | 17:39 |
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tmcpeak | allright guess not | 17:40 |
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tmcpeak | have a good week everybody! | 17:40 |
tmcpeak | #endmeeting | 17:40 |
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:40 | |
openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 30 17:40:43 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:40 |
gmurphy | laters. | 17:40 |
openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-06-30-17.00.html | 17:40 |
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openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-06-30-17.00.txt | 17:40 |
openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-06-30-17.00.log.html | 17:40 |
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dg___ | thanks guys | 17:40 |
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ccneill | o/ | 17:40 |
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ccneill | see ya next time | 17:40 |
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tkelsey | thanks all | 17:40 |
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lhinds | see you all | 17:41 |
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