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| IgorYozhikov | o/ | 13:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| jpena | o/ | 13:01 |
| toabctl | hi | 13:01 |
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| number80 | #startmeeting rpm_packaging | 13:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 8 13:01:49 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is number80. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rpm_packaging' | 13:01 |
| number80 | #topic roll call | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:01 | |
| number80 | ping dirk toabctl IgorYozhikov number80 jruzicka | 13:02 |
| number80 | let | 13:02 |
| number80 | 's start | 13:02 |
| number80 | agenda is here | 13:02 |
| jruzicka | o/ | 13:02 |
| number80 | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-rpm-packaging | 13:02 |
| number80 | #chair IgorYozhikov jpena toabctl jruzicka | 13:03 |
| openstack | Current chairs: IgorYozhikov jpena jruzicka number80 toabctl | 13:03 |
| number80 | has anyone a topic to bring before reviewing the queue? | 13:03 |
| number80 | toabctl: ^ | 13:03 |
| jpena | I see one topic in the agenda | 13:03 |
| toabctl | number80, the topic about build cycles. | 13:04 |
| number80 | ack | 13:04 |
| number80 | #topic build cycles | 13:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "build cycles (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:04 | |
| * number80 had to refresh the pad | 13:04 | |
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| number80 | toabctl: can you present the issue? | 13:04 |
| toabctl | one sec | 13:05 |
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| toabctl | you can see the problem basically here: https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor/openSUSE:Factory:Staging:adi:69 | 13:05 |
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| number80 | it's mostly about being able to bootstrap builds | 13:06 |
| toabctl | yes | 13:06 |
| toabctl | so pkg A needs B and B needs A | 13:06 |
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| IgorYozhikov | omg,as build time depend? | 13:07 |
| number80 | yes | 13:07 |
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| toabctl | we have a couple of them and one reason is that we run the tests which need BuildRequires | 13:07 |
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| IgorYozhikov | so might be it is connected to second topic from agenda? | 13:07 |
| toabctl | another one (i.e. for openstackclient) is that we add BuildRequires for documentation build | 13:07 |
| IgorYozhikov | I'm about using bcond for tests nad docs? | 13:08 |
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| IgorYozhikov | s/nad/and/ | 13:08 |
| dirk | o/ | 13:09 |
| * dirk is there, sorry for being late | 13:09 | |
| IgorYozhikov | if we will use it - we will be able to build | 13:09 |
| number80 | #chair dirk | 13:09 |
| openstack | Current chairs: IgorYozhikov dirk jpena jruzicka number80 toabctl | 13:09 |
| dirk | number80: thx | 13:09 |
| number80 | IgorYozhikov: the thing is that some cyclic dep are not docs and tests | 13:09 |
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| IgorYozhikov | without tests and docs as the 1st stage | 13:09 |
| toabctl | yeah. iirc oslotest and os-client-config is such a case | 13:10 |
| number80 | e.g oslo have a lot of cyclic dep | 13:10 |
| IgorYozhikov | and before release we can enable build with bcond values set | 13:10 |
| dirk | yeah, you can't really survive without breaking the cycles | 13:10 |
| IgorYozhikov | may be using another set of jobs | 13:10 |
| IgorYozhikov | so 1. while sources are in dev state before GA - skipping tests and docs but keeping them in templates | 13:11 |
| number80 | I think that we should use conditionals like IgorYozhikov suggested but add a bootstrap one (which will disable the other too at the same time) | 13:11 |
| IgorYozhikov | 2. after/before GA during hcf rebuild with tests and docs | 13:11 |
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| IgorYozhikov | and fix possible issues | 13:11 |
| toabctl | number80, sounds good to me (but not sure how suse handles such cases usually). dirk: would that work for us? | 13:11 |
| number80 | IgorYozhikov: yes | 13:12 |
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| IgorYozhikov | if every1 agree - I'll propose this to wiki guide | 13:12 |
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| number80 | IgorYozhikov: let's wait for Dirk answer | 13:13 |
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| IgorYozhikov | number80, sure | 13:13 |
| dirk | toabctl: normally we do something like a %global is_mini 0 and ifdef out tons of stuff when it is set | 13:13 |
| dirk | and then cp the foo.spec into foo-mini.spec (which provides foo, that needs to be added) and build that one first | 13:14 |
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| toabctl | dirk, and is_mini=1 is automatically set if the spec name ends with -mini.spec ? | 13:14 |
| number80 | dirk: sounds like something that could be done within renderspec? | 13:15 |
| toabctl | number80, ah. good point! | 13:15 |
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| jpena | number80: that's a good idea. We use a similar concept in DLRN, but without creating 2 specs | 13:15 |
| IgorYozhikov | does it means that we will maintain 2 copies of same spec per project folder | 13:15 |
| IgorYozhikov | one -mini | 13:15 |
| IgorYozhikov | one full? | 13:15 |
| number80 | jpena: yep, shouldn't require much change in DLRN | 13:15 |
| toabctl | IgorYozhikov, I don't think so. we would do that internally for SUSE | 13:15 |
| jruzicka | it does sound like something that could be done with renderspec | 13:15 |
| IgorYozhikov | just trying to understand | 13:16 |
| number80 | IgorYozhikov: you could do both, it's actually the same spec, you can either inject the value at build time or copy it in -mini.spec | 13:16 |
| dirk | toabctl: currently not, but we can add that | 13:16 |
| number80 | renderspec can easily abstract that | 13:16 |
| jpena | in theory, you shouldn't need to have two spec files, you could use a conditional macro in rpmbuild, e.g. | 13:16 |
| dirk | toabctl: e.g. add a renderspec option to generate a -mini option (in the end its just injecting a is_mini 1 define anyway) | 13:16 |
| dirk | normally obs can do that for us (or the good old pre_checkin.sh hack) | 13:17 |
| jruzicka | yeah, since renderspec already renders, why not add option to render mini ;) | 13:17 |
| number80 | ok | 13:17 |
| IgorYozhikov | toabctl, so by introducing mini global we also add if ... for tests and docs with depends, right? | 13:17 |
| dirk | we could call it minirenderspec ;) | 13:17 |
| number80 | time to vote | 13:17 |
| jruzicka | give me the .spec and I'll provide the renderspec code | 13:17 |
| jruzicka | :D | 13:17 |
| number80 | Proposal 1: add mini variable for bootstrapping in spec files | 13:18 |
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| number80 | Proposal 2: add logic in renderspec to generate mini spec files | 13:18 |
| number80 | 1: +1 2: +1 | 13:18 |
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| dirk | wfm obviously, so 2x +1 | 13:18 |
| IgorYozhikov | number80, looks like a plan | 13:19 |
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| jruzicka | Let's see which solution is most elegant | 13:19 |
| number80 | jruzicka: both are not mutually exclusive :) | 13:19 |
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| jruzicka | right :) | 13:20 |
| number80 | no objection? | 13:20 |
| jpena | no, works for me | 13:20 |
| jruzicka | DOUBLE+1 | 13:20 |
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| jruzicka | (also known as +2) | 13:20 |
| * IgorYozhikov agree | 13:20 | |
| number80 | #agreed Add mini variable for packages bootstrapping + feature in renderspec to render mini versions of packages | 13:20 |
| number80 | IgorYozhikov: are you still up to update wiki? | 13:21 |
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| jruzicka | I'll implement the renderspec part | 13:21 |
| IgorYozhikov | number80, yep | 13:21 |
| number80 | good, then next topic | 13:21 |
| number80 | #topic tests and docs - Review guide | 13:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "tests and docs - Review guide (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:21 | |
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| number80 | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rpm-packaging/ReviewGuidelines | 13:22 |
| number80 | IgorYozhikov: ^ | 13:22 |
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| IgorYozhikov | number80, that is was about circular deps | 13:22 |
| IgorYozhikov | and how it should be reflected on wiki | 13:22 |
| number80 | I think we could a section about bootstrapping | 13:23 |
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| IgorYozhikov | in the current version I suggesting to use conditionals | 13:23 |
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| IgorYozhikov | number80, ok, good point | 13:23 |
| IgorYozhikov | so it will be another page | 13:24 |
| number80 | wfm | 13:24 |
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| dirk | great | 13:24 |
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| IgorYozhikov | and does it means that current guide reflects truth and not required in any changes? | 13:24 |
| number80 | next topic? (we still some more items) | 13:24 |
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| number80 | IgorYozhikov: I need to read it carefuly (%bcond are tricky) | 13:25 |
| IgorYozhikov | number80, ok, let's discuss it later | 13:26 |
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| number80 | ack | 13:26 |
| number80 | #topic patching | 13:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "patching (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:26 | |
| astsmtl | We discussed it some time ago. | 13:27 |
| number80 | astsmtl: ? | 13:27 |
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| number80 | #chair astsmtl | 13:27 |
| openstack | Current chairs: IgorYozhikov astsmtl dirk jpena jruzicka number80 toabctl | 13:27 |
| astsmtl | IIUC there was no progress since that discussion. | 13:27 |
| dirk | I think we agreed some time ago to support patches being applied in spec files | 13:27 |
| astsmtl | Am I wrong? :) | 13:27 |
| dirk | if those changes are mandatory for getting things building | 13:27 |
| number80 | yes | 13:27 |
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| dirk | and then we tried to use it in one case and noticed that the CIs don't support it | 13:27 |
| dirk | and then I went on vacation :) | 13:28 |
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| dirk | I guess we should just create an example review and fix the CIs for that | 13:28 |
| dirk | I can help a bit on this on the SUSE ci front | 13:28 |
| astsmtl | So, we need to add support for patch to CI systems? | 13:28 |
| dirk | so that we have it working when we need it | 13:28 |
| number80 | Yep and maybe start a thread on the list to avoid context loss | 13:28 |
| dirk | astsmtl: imho yes | 13:28 |
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| astsmtl | Ok, I'll taka an action to add it to our CI. | 13:29 |
| astsmtl | s/taka/take | 13:29 |
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| toabctl | what about adding it to renderspec? so downstream can also add patches per spec-style? | 13:29 |
| astsmtl | #action astsmtl Patching support in Mirantis CI. | 13:30 |
| number80 | toabctl: with %autosetup, it should require litte to no chang | 13:30 |
| jpena | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357310/9 is an example of my (failed) attempt to add a patch to a spec | 13:30 |
| toabctl | number80, oh. ok. I need to look into that | 13:30 |
| IgorYozhikov | toabctl, it should be done in similar way because it could be reused for systemd units 4 example | 13:30 |
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| IgorYozhikov | I'm about support of additional files like patches and systemd units | 13:31 |
| number80 | toabctl: we use %autosetup -S git downstream, so that we just add Patch000: XXXX lines and it just works | 13:31 |
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| number80 | next topic | 13:33 |
| number80 | #topic packages reviews | 13:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "packages reviews (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:33 | |
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| IgorYozhikov | we are also use Patch0: xxx in head of spec and just Pathc0 -pN in pre | 13:33 |
| number80 | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/rpm-packaging+status:open | 13:33 |
| number80 | IgorYozhikov: with %autosetup -S git, patch will automatically get applied | 13:34 |
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| IgorYozhikov | number80, got it | 13:34 |
| number80 | so you don't have to modify spec at two different paces | 13:34 |
| IgorYozhikov | good to know :) | 13:34 |
| jruzicka | yeah, that was dumb | 13:34 |
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| IgorYozhikov | ok about reviews and version bumping | 13:35 |
| number80 | dirk: btw, could you relook at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/342045/, I'm not sure to understand what's the probem | 13:35 |
| dirk | sure | 13:35 |
| number80 | (could be done async) | 13:35 |
| IgorYozhikov | I missed requirements team meeting :( | 13:35 |
| IgorYozhikov | dirk, did you decide anything? | 13:35 |
| number80 | IgorYozhikov: we've frozen reqs for newton, now we have few FFE requests running | 13:35 |
| IgorYozhikov | number80, and they are reflected in U-C, right? | 13:36 |
| number80 | IgorYozhikov: yes, U-C is correct atm | 13:37 |
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| IgorYozhikov | cool, since that, toabctl will you modify your status script to take this fact in account? | 13:37 |
| number80 | before I move to another topic, any review you want to highlight? | 13:37 |
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| toabctl | IgorYozhikov, I'm on vacation for the next 2 weeks. that will take a while.. | 13:38 |
| IgorYozhikov | o i c | 13:38 |
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| dirk | IgorYozhikov: basically the decision was that uc and only uc is the version we should target to package | 13:39 |
| dirk | IgorYozhikov: the plan is then once newton is released to bump uc accordingly later in the stable tree phase | 13:39 |
| IgorYozhikov | dirk, got it | 13:39 |
| dirk | and for anything that we consider relevant, we need to file FFE's | 13:39 |
| number80 | anyway, our work as downstream is to help curate g-r before freeze | 13:40 |
| number80 | if you see errors => submit reviews | 13:41 |
| IgorYozhikov | ok, I'm fine with this | 13:41 |
| IgorYozhikov | moving next? | 13:41 |
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| dirk | +1 | 13:41 |
| number80 | ack | 13:42 |
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| number80 | #topic pymo2pkg reviews | 13:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pymo2pkg reviews (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:42 | |
| number80 | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/pymod2pkg+status:open | 13:42 |
| number80 | toabctl submitted a release last week | 13:42 |
| dirk | yep, it got approved yesterday | 13:43 |
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| dirk | and we already merged the version update to package | 13:43 |
| number80 | and jpena's review just got merged | 13:43 |
| number80 | excellent | 13:43 |
| number80 | then, next topic | 13:43 |
| number80 | #topic renderspec reviews | 13:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "renderspec reviews (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:43 | |
| number80 | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/renderspec+status:open | 13:43 |
| IgorYozhikov | number80, about patches here | 13:44 |
| number80 | yes? | 13:44 |
| IgorYozhikov | I have very old review | 13:44 |
| IgorYozhikov | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/291158/ | 13:44 |
| IgorYozhikov | may be it could useful somehow to handle patches | 13:45 |
| IgorYozhikov | in j2 templates | 13:45 |
| IgorYozhikov | or I can abandon it | 13:45 |
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| toabctl | tbh I would abandon it for now | 13:45 |
| number80 | yeah | 13:45 |
| IgorYozhikov | ok, i'm fine with it | 13:46 |
| toabctl | jruzicka, if you have some time, comments on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/360919/ would be welcome. | 13:46 |
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| toabctl | next topic? | 13:49 |
| number80 | #topic open discussion | 13:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:49 | |
| number80 | any topic before we close this meeting? | 13:49 |
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| IgorYozhikov | nope | 13:50 |
| jpena | nop | 13:51 |
| astsmtl | no | 13:51 |
| * astsmtl is waiting for plain "n" | 13:51 | |
| dirk | n | 13:51 |
| toabctl | . | 13:51 |
| dirk | ! | 13:51 |
| IgorYozhikov | :D | 13:52 |
| dirk | ah.. meeting chairs for next week.. | 13:52 |
| dirk | toabctl is away I take it | 13:52 |
| dirk | I will ilkely be there, but can't guarantee it yet | 13:52 |
| IgorYozhikov | I'll plan to be on-line | 13:52 |
| dirk | would be good if someone else can step in again in case I am in a rural suburb area without internet as I'm travelling | 13:52 |
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| number80 | I can take it again next week but I'm fine to leave it to someone else | 13:53 |
| * number80 will be travelling a lot in october | 13:53 | |
| dirk | ok, good lets figure that out next week then | 13:53 |
| number80 | ack | 13:53 |
| IgorYozhikov | ok | 13:53 |
| toabctl | btw. who's going to barcelona? | 13:53 |
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| number80 | o/ | 13:53 |
| * IgorYozhikov is | 13:53 | |
| toabctl | well - we'll see. let's end the meeting now. | 13:53 |
| jpena | I'll be there | 13:53 |
| number80 | thank you for attending and see you next week! | 13:54 |
| number80 | #endmeeting | 13:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:54 | |
| IgorYozhikov | c u | 13:54 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 8 13:54:04 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2016/rpm_packaging.2016-09-08-13.01.html | 13:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2016/rpm_packaging.2016-09-08-13.01.txt | 13:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2016/rpm_packaging.2016-09-08-13.01.log.html | 13:54 |
| jpena | bye! | 13:54 |
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| slashme | #startmeeting freezer | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 8 14:00:52 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is slashme. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'freezer' | 14:00 |
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| yangyapeng | slashme: hello | 14:01 |
| timothyb89 | hello all | 14:01 |
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| slashme | As usual, you can find meeting agenda and Meeting notes here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer_meetings | 14:01 |
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| slashme | Hello everyone | 14:01 |
| m3m0 | hello :) | 14:01 |
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| szaher | hey m3m0 | 14:02 |
| ddieterly | hi all | 14:02 |
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| ddieterly | is m3m0 running the meeting? | 14:04 |
| m3m0 | ddieterly: no | 14:04 |
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| ddieterly | whois? | 14:05 |
| m3m0 | ddieterly: slashme :) | 14:05 |
| yangyapeng | ddieterly: slashme | 14:05 |
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| slashme | There is nothing on the agenda | 14:05 |
| slashme | So if anyone has a topic he would like to bring up, feel free :) | 14:06 |
| ddieterly | ok, i added some topics | 14:07 |
| ddieterly | let's talk about deduplication | 14:07 |
| slashme | #topic Deduplication | 14:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Deduplication (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:07 | |
| ddieterly | er, i mean plugin architecture | 14:07 |
| ddieterly | sorry, my bad | 14:07 |
| slashme | #topic Plugins | 14:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Plugins (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:08 | |
| slashme | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer_new_archi | 14:08 |
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| ddieterly | so, saad i'm assuming that you'll be working on the plugins | 14:09 |
| ddieterly | is that cool? | 14:09 |
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| ddieterly | szaher? | 14:11 |
| szaher | ddieterly: Yea :) | 14:12 |
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| ddieterly | slashme i hoping you can cover tar incremental bug and backup/recover vm/volumes | 14:12 |
| ddieterly | is that cool? | 14:12 |
| slashme | Should be okay. | 14:13 |
| ddieterly | m3m0 can you do replace elasticsearch? | 14:14 |
| ddieterly | m3m0? | 14:15 |
| m3m0 | ddieterly: mmm I don't think so, tomorrow is my last day working in freezer | 14:15 |
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| ddieterly | okay... | 14:15 |
| m3m0 | we would need to re-route this to someone else | 14:15 |
| ddieterly | what's going on? | 14:16 |
| m3m0 | daemontool wanted to work on this | 14:16 |
| yangyapeng | szaher: in it, I can't see that by cindernative ? | 14:16 |
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| m3m0 | but I haven't heard from him for a while | 14:16 |
| ddieterly | m3m0 where are you going? | 14:16 |
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| slashme | He stays in our team... | 14:17 |
| m3m0 | still working in HPE :) but I got reassigned to do something else | 14:17 |
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| ddieterly | oh, i see | 14:17 |
| ddieterly | i hope it is something that you enjoy | 14:17 |
| m3m0 | someone should take care of the freezerclient and provide help for the horizon team :) | 14:18 |
| ddieterly | timothyb89 and i will look at deduplication | 14:18 |
| m3m0 | for ui related stuff as well find a new chairman :) | 14:18 |
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| ddieterly | m3m0 sorry to see you go | 14:18 |
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| yangyapeng | m3m0: :( | 14:19 |
| m3m0 | ddieterly: thanks, no worries, I'll still be around | 14:19 |
| ddieterly | cool | 14:19 |
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| timothyb89 | I can probably help out with horizon as needed | 14:19 |
| ddieterly | slashme we could not find a link to the deduplication etherpad. could you paste that link for us? | 14:20 |
| slashme | ddieterly: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer_deduplication Here it is, but is is empty | 14:21 |
| ddieterly | lol | 14:21 |
| ddieterly | a cruel joke | 14:22 |
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| ddieterly | so, guys, i think that those are the epics that we need to get done for ocata | 14:24 |
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| ddieterly | that is a lot of dev work | 14:24 |
| ddieterly | what do people think? is it doable? | 14:25 |
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| ddieterly | and szaher is working on multi-tenant | 14:25 |
| slashme | I'm not entirely sure deduplication will be finished in time. | 14:25 |
| ddieterly | yea, me too. that's why i'll be helping out tim | 14:26 |
| ddieterly | if people finish their epics early, they can also pitch in | 14:26 |
| ddieterly | but, if it doesn't get done, that's ok | 14:26 |
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| timothyb89 | for dedup I think it's less the amount of work, and more the architecture planning that makes it seem complex | 14:27 |
| ddieterly | the most important ones are tar incremental bug, back/restore vm/volume, and plugin architecture | 14:27 |
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| timothyb89 | once we have more clear ideas of how to implement things I think the time estimates can go down a lot | 14:27 |
| ddieterly | so, szaher and slashme are the heavy hitters on these | 14:27 |
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| szaher | ddieterly: :D :) | 14:28 |
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| slashme | szaher: Do you think the plugin layer can be achieved in one cycle with only one developper (you) ? | 14:29 |
| ddieterly | there are 4 different types of plugins to create so, there's room for other to help | 14:30 |
| slashme | Indeed | 14:31 |
| ddieterly | the main objective is to allow anyone to create a plugin to backup his service/db/whatever | 14:31 |
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| ddieterly | so we need to prioritize on the plugin that gets us closest to that goal | 14:31 |
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| ddieterly | maybe daemontool can do the elasticsearch to mysql conversion | 14:33 |
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| ddieterly | can we move to the next topic? | 14:35 |
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| ddieterly | freezer-api version 2? | 14:35 |
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| ddieterly | guys? you there? | 14:36 |
| yangyapeng | yeah | 14:37 |
| yangyapeng | i guess it is a topic szaher | 14:37 |
| ddieterly | yea, it's szaher's baby | 14:37 |
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| ddieterly | i guess they stepped out | 14:38 |
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| ddieterly | yangyapeng do you want to discuss your blueprints? | 14:39 |
| yangyapeng | okay | 14:39 |
| yangyapeng | i Recently have focused on cindervolume backup | 14:40 |
| slashme | #topic backup-rotation | 14:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "backup-rotation (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:40 | |
| yangyapeng | so , I want to implementation remove older backup in cindernative | 14:40 |
| yangyapeng | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/freezer/+spec/backup-rotation | 14:40 |
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| yangyapeng | fullbackup-incremental- - - have more a fullbackup chain | 14:41 |
| yangyapeng | I ready to do it, remove older fullbackup chain . action==admin | 14:42 |
| yangyapeng | it is different (nova or cinder) and cindernative | 14:43 |
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| ddieterly | ok | 14:43 |
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| szaher | ddieterly: I am still here sorry I was getting something | 14:43 |
| ddieterly | szaher no problem | 14:43 |
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| ddieterly | so, i think unless anyone has any objections, yangyapeng you may proceed | 14:45 |
| slashme | +1 | 14:45 |
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| ddieterly | szaher can we talk about your freezer-api version 2 | 14:46 |
| slashme | #topic Freezer-api v2 | 14:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Freezer-api v2 (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:46 | |
| szaher | Yes Sure | 14:46 |
| szaher | I think after implementing oslo.policy we need to make use of it and implement multi-tenancy | 14:47 |
| ddieterly | ok | 14:47 |
| szaher | so now if you take a look at the api calls for freezer it looks for the user id and relates the backup to the user ID | 14:47 |
| szaher | instead of that the user ID will be optional and tenant ID will be mandatory | 14:48 |
| ddieterly | yea | 14:48 |
| ddieterly | sounds good | 14:48 |
| yangyapeng | szaher: good | 14:48 |
| ddieterly | how is user id related to tenant id? | 14:48 |
| ddieterly | in the openstack world? | 14:48 |
| szaher | so now I am going to refactor this part as a version 2 of the api and I will keep version 1 to support backward compatibility | 14:49 |
| szaher | ddieterly: roles | 14:49 |
| szaher | simply the user needs a tenant to login and needs to have a role on atenant | 14:49 |
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| ddieterly | oh, tenant replaces project now? | 14:49 |
| yangyapeng | keystone v3 | 14:50 |
| ddieterly | i think it used to be project that was used | 14:50 |
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| szaher | project(new) = tenant (old) | 14:50 |
| ddieterly | so, now projecs are used instead of tenants? | 14:51 |
| szaher | ddieterly: Yes, even the env variables are OS_PORJECT now | 14:52 |
| ddieterly | tenant=project. Project is mainly used for v3 api. v1 and v2 api use tenant | 14:52 |
| ddieterly | found that doing a search | 14:52 |
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| szaher | Yes that's correct | 14:53 |
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| szaher | so project is the new one | 14:53 |
| ddieterly | so, that is needed for backup/restore vm/volumes? | 14:53 |
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| szaher | I did a commit in freezer to check for either tenant or project whatever available freezer will use it | 14:54 |
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| ddieterly | 5 mins left; does anyone have any other topics? | 14:55 |
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| szaher | ddieterly: Thanks | 14:56 |
| slashme | Thank you everyone :) | 14:56 |
| slashme | #endmeeting | 14:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 8 14:56:51 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-09-08-14.00.html | 14:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-09-08-14.00.txt | 14:56 |
| ddieterly | ciao! | 14:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-09-08-14.00.log.html | 14:56 |
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| bswartz | #startmeeting manila | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 8 15:00:39 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:00 |
| bswartz | hello all | 15:00 |
| cknight | Hi | 15:00 |
| gouthamr_ | hello o/ | 15:00 |
| aovchinnikov | hi | 15:00 |
| dgonzalez | hi | 15:00 |
| ganso | hello | 15:00 |
| tovchinnikova | \\// | 15:00 |
| vponomaryov | Hello | 15:00 |
| xyang1 | hi | 15:00 |
| tbarron | hi | 15:01 |
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| zhongjun_ | hello | 15:01 |
| rraja | hi | 15:01 |
| jseiler_ | hi | 15:01 |
| bswartz | #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings | 15:01 |
| bswartz | #topic RC1 status | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RC1 status (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:01 | |
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| bswartz | so we're driving towards RC1 | 15:02 |
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| bswartz | the target date for that is just 1 week away | 15:02 |
| bswartz | #link https://launchpad.net/manila/+milestone/newton-rc1 | 15:03 |
| markstur | hi | 15:03 |
| bswartz | the goal is to fix a the targeted bugs and the tag/branch | 15:03 |
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| bswartz | if anyone knows about bugs that need fixing, please make sure they're targetted, ideally by today | 15:04 |
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| vponomaryov | bswartz: actually we have lots of bugs with proposed fixes but not targeted | 15:04 |
| bswartz | we're not going to allow targeting of new bugs to the RC unless they're critical after today | 15:04 |
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| bswartz | vponomaryov: let's get them targeted | 15:04 |
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| bswartz | my criteria for tagging RC1 will be when that list on LP has zero open bugs | 15:05 |
| bswartz | #topic Project Logo | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project Logo (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:06 | |
| bswartz | #link http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/vote.pl?id=E_6f0d111cec78c5ef&akey=d34a751f2d084d79 | 15:06 |
| bswartz | For those who haven't voted on the new logo, there is the link | 15:06 |
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| bswartz | I'm using CIVS this time around because it allows us to determine a #2 and #3 winner in case the new winner is disqualified like the last one was | 15:07 |
| bswartz | the poll closes tomorrow at noon UTC | 15:07 |
| bswartz | #topic Container Driver Security | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Container Driver Security (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:08 | |
| ganso | is it working for everybody? I got a blank page after I voted | 15:08 |
| * bswartz goes to look for link | 15:08 | |
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| aovchinnikov | so, there is a bug in the container driver | 15:08 |
| bswartz | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/353463/ | 15:08 |
| aovchinnikov | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/manila/+bug/1613675 | 15:08 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1613675 in Manila "Container driver does not actually mount logical volumes" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Alexey Ovchinnikov (aovchinnikov) | 15:08 |
| aovchinnikov | and that's the bug | 15:08 |
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| aovchinnikov | the proposed solution has attracted some criticism | 15:09 |
| bswartz | there were some questions about the security implications of running containers in privileged mode | 15:09 |
| aovchinnikov | I've heard concerns from several community members about security aspects of this approach | 15:09 |
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| bswartz | My opinion on this is that: we're not using containers for any kind of security enforcement, we're using them for network namespace separation, and therefore whether the container is privileged or not doesn't matter | 15:10 |
| aovchinnikov | yes, also the way /dev is proposed to be handled by containers looks dangerous | 15:10 |
| bswartz | nothing the container driver does is more dangerous than what the LVM driver does | 15:10 |
| aovchinnikov | I'd like to stress it that the only point of using containers in this driver is to avoid direct network namespaces manipulations | 15:11 |
| aovchinnikov | that is the sole purpose of containers here | 15:11 |
| aovchinnikov | so probably we should not worry too much about possible security risks here | 15:11 |
| aovchinnikov | as bswartz has mentioned it is not less secure than LVM driver | 15:12 |
| tbarron | do we explicitly address the question of | 15:12 |
| bswartz | ganso dgonzalez: does that make sense to you? | 15:12 |
| tbarron | whether container and lvm drivers should be used in non POC and non-gate-testing environments? | 15:13 |
| ganso | bswartz: yes, if the vulnerability is present in other drivers as well, seems there is nothing much we can do | 15:13 |
| dgonzalez | bswartz: it makes sense, but if there is a way to avoid mount /dev i would prefer it... | 15:13 |
| aovchinnikov | also suggestions and alternative opinions are welcome | 15:13 |
| ganso | dgonzalez: +1 | 15:13 |
| bswartz | dgonzalez: from what I know about docker, I'm fairly certain it's not -- docker doesn't support dynamically adding storage to running containers | 15:13 |
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| dgonzalez | Is it possible to stop the container and then start it with a new volume? | 15:14 |
| bswartz | basically we treat every container the same as we treat the host | 15:14 |
| aovchinnikov | dgonzalez, ganso: it is definitely not the best thing to do, but it seems to be the only way to do it | 15:14 |
| bswartz | dgonzalez: that would be supremely disruptive to clients | 15:14 |
| aovchinnikov | dgonzalez: what if someone is doing heavy io right at the moment? | 15:14 |
| dgonzalez | aovchinnikov: right, that would be bad :D | 15:15 |
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| aovchinnikov | dgonzalez: that is a very mild way to describe it:) | 15:16 |
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| aovchinnikov | so apparently we have to mount the entire /dev to each container for now | 15:16 |
| bswartz | personally I don't believe we even need docker's mount namespace separation -- we're only interested in the network, uts, and user namespaces being separate | 15:16 |
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| aovchinnikov | that should nt be a problem as long as there are no exploitable bits in smbd | 15:17 |
| bswartz | however we're chose docker because it's well understood and widely supported, rather than cooking up our own container-thingy | 15:17 |
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| aovchinnikov | and we won't need to support our own solution | 15:17 |
| dgonzalez | Seems like attaching a new volume to a running contaienr is possible via the API: https://github.com/docker/docker/issues/10975 | 15:17 |
| bswartz | and to add to what aovchinnikov said, if there are security holes in smbd, then they affect lvm driver too | 15:17 |
| dgonzalez | But i am not sure if this helps us :P | 15:18 |
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| tbarron | is that a good argument? | 15:18 |
| aovchinnikov | dgonzalez: afaik it is not that simple | 15:18 |
| bswartz | dgonzalez: I've seen that page -- it container inaccurate information | 15:18 |
| bswartz | s/container/contains/ | 15:18 |
| tbarron | i go back to the question of the scope and purpose of container and lvm drivers | 15:19 |
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| bswartz | dgonzalez: however if you can find a way to correctly plug new filesystems into a running docker container, then we would enthusiastically accept such a patch | 15:19 |
| ganso | tbarron: I wonder the same | 15:20 |
| ganso | we should consider the driver being used in production | 15:20 |
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| aovchinnikov | tbarron: POC, gate and dev environments now, production at some point later | 15:20 |
| bswartz | tbarron: container driver support share servers in the most efficient way we can do with open source | 15:20 |
| bswartz | IMO the design of the driver is fits production use cases well | 15:21 |
| tbarron | security concerns about real tenants escaping their walls in production may be very different than if they are not meant for production and that is explicitly stated | 15:21 |
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| bswartz | the main thing preventing container driver from running in production is the severe limitations of nfs-ganesha | 15:21 |
| tbarron | ok, then we should ask that containers provide as good walls around tenants as do vm instnaces, right? | 15:22 |
| markstur | tbarron, We need to be very careful of supporting a driver for PoC/Test only because once they get out in the wild they end up in production. | 15:22 |
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| bswartz | tbarron: I'll try to make this pefectly clear -- the containers we create are NOT ACCESSIBLE to tenants -- they are merely for our own convenience to put samba into a tenant's network | 15:22 |
| bswartz | (and nfs-ganesha in the future) | 15:22 |
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| bswartz | similar issues exist with q-dhcp and q-l3 -- those run in containers with no mount namespace protection | 15:23 |
| bswartz | however nobody worries about this because those containers aren't accessible to tenants | 15:23 |
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| dgonzalez | bswartz: but when the container is attchaed to a tenant network, couldn't somebody gain access to it through security holes in samba? | 15:24 |
| tbarron | yeah, i'm not arguing that the container driver is *not* secure enough, i'm just seeking clarity and what criteria are appropriate | 15:24 |
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| aovchinnikov | dgonzalez: in theory he can do that | 15:25 |
| bswartz | dgonzalez: yes! and the same is true for generic driver and lvm driver and zfs driver, and if ther are security holes in dnsmasq then the same is true for q-dhcp, etc | 15:25 |
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| bswartz | what I'm trying to argue is that what we're doing with container driver is no worse than what we do everywhere else | 15:26 |
| aovchinnikov | well, it will hurt less in the case of the generic driver | 15:26 |
| aovchinnikov | a little less | 15:26 |
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| bswartz | aovchinnikov: that's not true -- if you get into the service VM you have network access to the backend resources and you can do terrible things | 15:26 |
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| aovchinnikov | yes, sure, but at least you are not seeing other's data immediately | 15:27 |
| dgonzalez | bswartz: but if you have access to a container which can tamper with /dev from the host, you can mess with stuff that belongs to other containers and therefore other tenants | 15:27 |
| bswartz | dgonzalez: the same is true of every first party driver | 15:27 |
| aovchinnikov | it is a couple of commands away. I guess this could be considered as little. | 15:28 |
| aovchinnikov | dgonzalez: when you have access to a generic driver's VM you still have a chance to mess with other's data | 15:28 |
| bswartz | if you can exploit the server then you can gain access to other tenant's data with all of our first party drivers | 15:28 |
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| bswartz | we rely on samba and nfsd being secure as part of our security for manila | 15:29 |
| bswartz | if they're not secure, we have much bigger problems | 15:29 |
| dgonzalez | bswartz: ok, I didn't know that | 15:29 |
| bswartz | with the generic driver we have a better chance to isolate tenants from attacks | 15:30 |
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| bswartz | with container/lvm/zfs it's really impossible to get secure separation if the client is able to hack samba/nfsd | 15:30 |
| bswartz | okay we have several more agenda items so I'd like to move on | 15:30 |
| dgonzalez | to get back on topic: I'm fine with mounting /dev in containers if there is no other way to do it. But i think we should warn users that there is no real isolation between teh data of different tenants | 15:31 |
| dgonzalez | bswartz: +1 | 15:31 |
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| bswartz | dgonzalez: that makes sense | 15:31 |
| bswartz | we should ensure that admins are aware that the container driver doesn't offer any additional security compared to lvm/zfs | 15:31 |
| bswartz | it's main value is support of share servers | 15:32 |
| bswartz | #topic Security "vulnerability-managed" tag for manila | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Security "vulnerability-managed" tag for manila (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:32 | |
| bswartz | tbarron: you're up | 15:32 |
| tbarron | I asked and yes, it is is important for us that all projecs that we ship as more than just "tech preview" have the managed vulnerability tag. | 15:32 |
| tbarron | It's understood that the burden for getting the tag for newer projects is heavier than for established projects to keep it, but | 15:32 |
| tbarron | we're expected to advocate for projects in which particpate to pursue the tag, and to work to make this feasi | 15:32 |
| tbarron | feasible | 15:33 |
| bswartz | tbarron: I abandoned the governance change related to this | 15:33 |
| tbarron | bswartz: yes, you did | 15:33 |
| bswartz | it's not clear to me how we get an independent security review of the project without someone volunteering to spend money | 15:34 |
| tbarron | bswartz: I don't think that kind of external security audit was being requested | 15:34 |
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| * bswartz goes to look for link | 15:34 | |
| vkmc | shouldn't the security audit be performed by the security council in OpenStack? | 15:34 |
| tbarron | vkmc: It's not an "audit" | 15:35 |
| tbarron | and prjects are OpenStack | 15:35 |
| bswartz | #link http://governance.openstack.org/reference/tags/vulnerability_managed.html#requirements | 15:35 |
| tbarron | we have to contribute and be a part of openstack, not run independently | 15:35 |
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| bswartz | Oh i wonder if the wording changed here | 15:36 |
| vkmc | tbarron++ | 15:36 |
| bswartz | the wording is "The deliverable?s repos should undergo a review, audit, or threat analysis looking for obvious signs of insecure design or risky implementation which could imply a large number of future vulnerability reports. The review, audit, or threat analysis may be done by the project team itself or an impartial third party. In the event the project team involved in the tagging peforms the review, audit, or threat analysis, the results | 15:36 |
| tbarron | right, talking to fungi, the important thing was to "get started" on this | 15:36 |
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| tbarron | ihere is the current template :) | 15:37 |
| bswartz | I'm not sure who normally undertakes these kind of reviews | 15:37 |
| tbarron | https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/security-analysis/tree/doc/source/templates/ | 15:37 |
| tbarron | manila would be a pioneer, set precedent | 15:37 |
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| fungi | and would be an awesome precedent to set | 15:37 |
| bswartz | still, we need volunteers to do this work | 15:38 |
| tbarron | i volunteer | 15:38 |
| gouthamr_ | i can help | 15:38 |
| fungi | i recommend popping into the security team's weekly meeting too and expressing your interest in being an early adopter of that process they've been designing | 15:38 |
| bswartz | tbarron: awesome! thank you | 15:38 |
| bswartz | tbarron: since you're on the project team, who could perform the third party validation of your work? | 15:38 |
| tbarron | fungi: ?? ^^ | 15:39 |
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| tbarron | the text says: | 15:39 |
| bswartz | well that's not something we need to address today | 15:39 |
| bswartz | as long as we have a volunteer we can get started | 15:40 |
| bswartz | and find a third party to validate results in parallel | 15:40 |
| tbarron | I'm guessing projects may validate other projects for third party signoff | 15:40 |
| tbarron | but if the manila community is OK with it I can get the ball rolling and we'll see where it goes | 15:40 |
| bswartz | tbarron: so at what point should I restore my governance change? | 15:41 |
| bswartz | is your understanding that we can request that tag before the review is complete? | 15:41 |
| tbarron | how about I go to the security meeting that fungi pointed to and report back | 15:41 |
| bswartz | okay | 15:41 |
| bswartz | anything else on this topic? | 15:41 |
| tbarron | and anyone else interested from manila too of course | 15:41 |
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| bswartz | gouthamr: ^ | 15:42 |
| fungi | yeah, the vmt is really fairly autonomous and not deeply involved with the security team. we're mostly separate groups except from a governance standpoint | 15:42 |
| fungi | i in fact usually don't have time to lurk the security team meeting and only pop in when summoned | 15:42 |
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| bswartz | #topic Zanata translations for manila-client and manila-ui | 15:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Zanata translations for manila-client and manila-ui (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:42 | |
| bswartz | tbarron: this is you again | 15:43 |
| tbarron | i meant to say for manila and manila client | 15:43 |
| tbarron | we have them for manila ui | 15:43 |
| bswartz | o_O | 15:43 |
| tbarron | any objection to adding them to the main components too? | 15:43 |
| bswartz | #undo | 15:43 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x7f23bda21fd0> | 15:43 |
| bswartz | #topic Zanata translations for manila and python-manilaclient | 15:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Zanata translations for manila and python-manilaclient (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:43 | |
| tbarron | bswartz: ty | 15:44 |
| bswartz | I don't see why we wouldn't want this | 15:44 |
| gouthamr | no objections, translations are probably of great help to greater adoption | 15:44 |
| gouthamr | but i want to clarify why we'd stop backports | 15:44 |
| tbarron | and if not, then waht is the correct interpretation of https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Translations#String_Freeze w.r.t timing | 15:44 |
| bswartz | what issues exist with zanata? | 15:44 |
| gouthamr | ah, my question too :) | 15:44 |
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| tbarron | i think we can add zanata, we just can't add new strings :) | 15:45 |
| bswartz | yes, string freeze has been a confusing topic for people | 15:45 |
| tbarron | or do we have to wait till Ocata to turn on zanata | 15:45 |
| tbarron | ? | 15:45 |
| bswartz | when I -1 stuff for string freeze violations people always point out that we don't have any translations | 15:45 |
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| bswartz | my response is that we need to follow the rules if we want to have translations | 15:45 |
| bswartz | but perhaps I'm wrong? | 15:46 |
| tbarron | +1 | 15:46 |
| gouthamr | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/337065/ is a pretty important bugfix for our customer; and it happens to introduce a translated string.. i wasn't able to find any place where it says this is forbidden? | 15:46 |
| tbarron | i think there's email, prob. from dhellman | 15:46 |
| tbarron | about string freeze itself | 15:47 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: http://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/release-management.html | 15:47 |
| xyang1 | new string is ok | 15:47 |
| bswartz | xyang1: new strings are okay up until hard string freeze | 15:47 |
| bswartz | stable releases are permanently in hard string freeze AIUI | 15:47 |
| tbarron | so this is good to talk about but wasn't actually what i was asking, i will wait to pop stack though | 15:48 |
| gouthamr | so when we have the translation catalogs in our project, we could include the translations in the backport itself.. | 15:49 |
| bswartz | if we didn't enforce hard string freeze on stable stuff, then translators would have to watch all the stable branches all the time, which doesn't scale well | 15:49 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: that sounds like a suggestion for the release mgmt team | 15:49 |
| gouthamr | i actually found that wording somewhere else | 15:49 |
| bswartz | we're not going to make up our own rules for backports | 15:49 |
| * gouthamr looks for a link | 15:49 | |
| gouthamr | sure.. but respectfully, i have been able to backport stuff in other projects :) i dunno if this is a new restriction | 15:50 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: probably stable-maint reviewers not enforcing rules correctly -- you got lucky | 15:50 |
| bswartz | okay so let's get back to what tbarron was asking about | 15:51 |
| * bswartz looks at clock | 15:51 | |
| tbarron | can we turn on zanata now, as a bug, or do we have to wait till O? | 15:51 |
| bswartz | tbarron: I see no reason not to turn it on -- what risk could it possibly introduce? | 15:51 |
| tbarron | just checking | 15:51 |
| tbarron | that's all i have on this one | 15:52 |
| bswartz | anyone disagree and think we should wait until ocata to turn on translations? | 15:52 |
| gouthamr | my ask is that we backport pending backports and then turn this on and gate on it, and call it out in the devref and make this very clear that even if a critical bugfix comes along, it can't be backported if it has a translatable string | 15:52 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: whether we do translations or not, I still believe we need to enforce the string freeze | 15:53 |
| gouthamr | i don't understand the reasoning very well, and i might be wrong.. but this is breaking the contract that we will backport bugfixes that affect our users | 15:53 |
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| bswartz | okay 1 last topic | 15:53 |
| bswartz | #topic Tempest direction | 15:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tempest direction (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:54 | |
| bswartz | tbarron: you're up one last time | 15:54 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: what all constitute a "user facing string"? this is confusing, perhaps a mailing list item.. | 15:54 |
| tbarron | let's take that one up next time as it's big, but | 15:54 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: anything with _() | 15:54 |
| tbarron | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365250/ could use attention | 15:54 |
| bswartz | tbarron: can you get this started? | 15:54 |
| tbarron | yeah, the bigger topic is maybe we should write down our near term tactical approaches to tempest stability and longer term goals | 15:55 |
| tbarron | and see if we can get agreement on these | 15:55 |
| bswartz | tbarron: not a bad idea | 15:55 |
| tbarron | but short term, while we don't have tempest lib, etc. it will be helpful | 15:55 |
| bswartz | it's written down in meeting minutes already -- where else do you propose capturing this? | 15:56 |
| tbarron | to advance the sha for the tempest we run to match the tempest label 12.2.0 | 15:56 |
| tbarron | hence above review | 15:56 |
| tbarron | as new people come in, it's hard to have to read all the backlog | 15:56 |
| bswartz | yeah I agree, but where? | 15:56 |
| tbarron | probably we should have a devref? | 15:56 |
| bswartz | is it a wiki thing? a devref thing? | 15:56 |
| gouthamr | +1 devref | 15:57 |
| bswartz | devref is supposed to be a reference document for how stuff works today | 15:57 |
| bswartz | typically you don't discuss future plans in a devref | 15:57 |
| bswartz | perhaps a spec.... | 15:57 |
| tbarron | it could start as an etherpad and evolve to more durable form, perhaps a spec | 15:57 |
| tbarron | as long as that isn't a graveyard :) | 15:58 |
| bswartz | tbarron: that's a whole other topic | 15:58 |
| gouthamr | +1 :P | 15:58 |
| bswartz | one that I'm eager to address before barcelona | 15:58 |
| tbarron | bswartz: XDXD | 15:58 |
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| bswartz | #topic open discussion | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:59 | |
| bswartz | okay 1 minute for any last things | 15:59 |
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| bswartz | reminder: vote for our mascot/logo | 15:59 |
| bswartz | reminder: make sure bugs are targeted to RC1 if they need to be | 15:59 |
| bswartz | thanks everyone | 15:59 |
| bswartz | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 8 15:59:59 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-09-08-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-09-08-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-09-08-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
| xarses | #startmeeting fuel | 16:00 |
| xarses | #chair xarses | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 8 16:00:13 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is xarses. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| xarses | Todays Agenda: | 16:00 |
| xarses | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fuel-weekly-meeting-agenda | 16:00 |
| xarses | Who's here? | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'fuel' | 16:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: xarses | 16:00 |
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| mwhahaha | hi | 16:01 |
| xarses | only one topic on the agenda today | 16:02 |
| xarses | #topic 9.1 Bugs Scope https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fuel-9-1-bugs-movement (dpyzhov) | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "9.1 Bugs Scope https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fuel-9-1-bugs-movement (dpyzhov) (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:02 | |
| dpyzhov | hi | 16:02 |
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| dpyzhov | I'm not sure if we have enough participants today | 16:02 |
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| dpyzhov | We have less than a week before 9.1 HCF | 16:03 |
| dpyzhov | and there are a lot of bugs. | 16:03 |
| dpyzhov | I've prepared a list of bugs that I propose to postpone to 9.2 | 16:03 |
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| dpyzhov | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/fuel-9-1-bugs-movement | 16:03 |
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| xarses | I think then, we should probably take this to the ML and just move them, if any one disagrees, they can discuss, move it back | 16:05 |
| dpyzhov | xarses: agree | 16:05 |
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| xarses | anything else? | 16:06 |
| dpyzhov | nope | 16:06 |
| xarses | #topic open-discuss | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open-discuss (Meeting topic: fuel)" | 16:06 | |
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| xarses | if their isn't anything else to discuss, then I will close the meeting | 16:06 |
| xarses | ok, thanks everyone | 16:07 |
| xarses | #endmeeting | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:07 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 8 16:07:27 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:07 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2016/fuel.2016-09-08-16.00.html | 16:07 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2016/fuel.2016-09-08-16.00.txt | 16:07 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2016/fuel.2016-09-08-16.00.log.html | 16:07 |
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| tmcpeak | #startmeeting security | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 8 17:00:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tmcpeak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'security' | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | #chair hyakuhei | 17:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: hyakuhei tmcpeak | 17:00 |
| tkelsey | o/ | 17:00 |
| browne | o/ | 17:00 |
| singlethink | o/ | 17:00 |
| lhinds | o/ | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | ohai o/ is this the cool peoples' rendevouz? | 17:00 |
| lhinds | yups | 17:00 |
| elmiko | hi | 17:00 |
| jasonhullinger | hola | 17:00 |
| vinaypotluri | o/ | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | good, just wanted to make sure I'm in the right place :D | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-agenda | 17:00 |
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| tmcpeak | we'll give a couple minutes for people to stream in and then get going | 17:01 |
| knangia | o/ | 17:01 |
| sicarie | o/ | 17:01 |
| unrahul | o/ | 17:01 |
| dg_____ | o/ | 17:01 |
| lhinds | stream? are we playing counterstrike? goodie! | 17:01 |
| sicarie | how many underscores is that now? | 17:01 |
| elmiko | i hear that everytime dg get's another underscore an angel gets it wings XD | 17:02 |
| tkelsey | lol | 17:02 |
| tmcpeak | he adds one every time he secures something | 17:02 |
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| elmiko | haha | 17:02 |
| elmiko | he needs waaaay more underscores then... | 17:02 |
| tmcpeak | everybody, please add any topical items to the etherpad | 17:02 |
| tmcpeak | jasonhullinger: did you want to discuss Bandit plugin again or you done on that for now? | 17:03 |
| jasonhullinger | No, done with taht | 17:03 |
| tmcpeak | ok cool | 17:03 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Anchor | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Anchor (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:03 | |
| tmcpeak | browne brought up that there are a bunch of reviews just waiting for +A | 17:03 |
| tmcpeak | so... | 17:03 |
| tmcpeak | tkelsey: dg_____ underscore underscore underscore | 17:03 |
| tmcpeak | what's up | 17:03 |
| browne | yep, friendly reminder. please review some | 17:04 |
| tkelsey | browne: will do! | 17:04 |
| browne | tkelsey: thx | 17:04 |
| tmcpeak | sweet, that was easy | 17:04 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Syntribos | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Syntribos (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:04 | |
| tkelsey | sorry for the lag, will pay more attention to Anchor reviews | 17:04 |
| browne | np | 17:04 |
| tmcpeak | no worries man, been a while since any action on Anchor | 17:04 |
| dg_____ | browne ok sorry | 17:04 |
| tmcpeak | thanks for reminding browne | 17:04 |
| tkelsey | yup | 17:04 |
| dg_____ | i was a bit supprised it was on the agenda | 17:04 |
| tmcpeak | :P | 17:05 |
| tmcpeak | unrahul: you're up | 17:05 |
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| unrahul | hey tmcpeak | 17:05 |
| unrahul | so we are testing neutron this week | 17:05 |
| unrahul | well we created the templates (manually :|) and was tweaking it a lil bit ysday | 17:06 |
| tmcpeak | how's that all going? | 17:06 |
| unrahul | As for neutron lot of the apis are admin only , we are getting lot of 404s.. so need to filter those out.. | 17:06 |
| unrahul | we got a few 500s , but those might be false positive.. | 17:06 |
| unrahul | Nothing as such to report for now.. | 17:07 |
| tmcpeak | cool cool | 17:07 |
| unrahul | we will keep on testing today and tomorrow and let you guys know if we find something cool. | 17:07 |
| unrahul | Do you guys have any pointers on neutron testing.. | 17:07 |
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| unrahul | like which apis or something..? | 17:07 |
| unrahul | that needs careful testing, possible attack surfaces.. etc..? | 17:08 |
| tmcpeak | personally I know nothing about Neutron, probably less than a random dude off the street | 17:08 |
| tmcpeak | sicarie: <3 Neutron | 17:08 |
| tmcpeak | ? | 17:08 |
| browne | lol | 17:08 |
| sicarie | lol | 17:08 |
| unrahul | sicarie: :D any pointers..? | 17:08 |
| tmcpeak | like how I just randomly picked on sicarie? :D | 17:09 |
| unrahul | hehe.. | 17:09 |
| unrahul | rofl | 17:09 |
| unrahul | thanks tmcpeak ! | 17:09 |
| tmcpeak | he might at least know people, that's what I threw out his handle | 17:09 |
| sicarie | unrahul: away from the security guide - we've been trying to get reviews on that for quite a while | 17:09 |
| elmiko | you may want to ping tristanC, he did a great deal of api fuzz testing against neutron | 17:09 |
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| tmcpeak | elmiko: +1 | 17:09 |
| elmiko | also, found several bugs that way | 17:09 |
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| unrahul | oh cool will ping him then thanks elmiko .. | 17:10 |
| tmcpeak | sweet | 17:10 |
| unrahul | so thats it from us.. for this week..then | 17:10 |
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| elmiko | np, good luck! | 17:10 |
| tmcpeak | cool, thanks for update | 17:10 |
| tmcpeak | #topic OSSN | 17:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OSSN (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:10 | |
| tmcpeak | lhinds: | 17:10 |
| unrahul | thank elmiko ! | 17:10 |
| lhinds | so the big 0069 got merged | 17:10 |
| lhinds | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/356712/ | 17:10 |
| lhinds | well done vinaypotluri | 17:11 |
| tmcpeak | woot! | 17:11 |
| vinaypotluri | we did it lhinds ... cheers !!! | 17:11 |
| lhinds | we have yet to get a +2 from neutrong, but.... | 17:11 |
| tmcpeak | the longest email threat I've ever seen :P | 17:11 |
| lhinds | Brian Haley made a small nit | 17:11 |
| elmiko | vinaypotluri++ | 17:11 |
| tmcpeak | oh, did I merge it prematurely? | 17:11 |
| dg_____ | good work vinaypotluri! | 17:11 |
| singlethink | congrats vinaypotluri | 17:11 |
| lhinds | and said he was happy it that was fixed (whcih is was) | 17:11 |
| lhinds | so for me, this is good enough | 17:11 |
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| vinaypotluri | thank you singlethink :) | 17:12 |
| lhinds | but though prudent to just check wit you guys as well | 17:12 |
| lhinds | you can see Brian at patch-set 18 | 17:12 |
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| lhinds | he is Neutron core | 17:12 |
| vinaypotluri | lhinds: should we change the status of the bug on the launchpad ? | 17:13 |
| lhinds | so I will send out the email this eve and populate the wiki - unless any objections? | 17:13 |
| vinaypotluri | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ossn/+bug/1534652 | 17:13 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1534652 in OpenStack Security Notes "Host machine exposed to tenant networks via IPv6" [Undecided,Confirmed] - Assigned to Vinay Potluri (vinay-potluri) | 17:13 |
| tmcpeak | lhinds: sounds good! | 17:13 |
| lhinds | great | 17:13 |
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| lhinds | other then that I have a few more I am just trying to shepard cores into reviewing. | 17:14 |
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| lhinds | the other thing is I spoke with haleyb | 17:14 |
| lhinds | duh! | 17:14 |
| tmcpeak | cool, how's our queue look? | 17:14 |
| tmcpeak | whodat? | 17:14 |
| lhinds | that was a failed autocomplete then | 17:14 |
| lhinds | queue last time I checked was around 4-5 with embargoes | 17:15 |
| haleyb | lhinds: what did i do? :) | 17:15 |
| tmcpeak | lol | 17:15 |
| lhinds | sorry haleyb | 17:15 |
| lhinds | I tapped <TAB> and got the wrong nick ! | 17:15 |
| tmcpeak | so we just have embargoed notes in the queue? | 17:15 |
| haleyb | no, it was me, just didn't see s/b | 17:15 |
| tmcpeak | I see 8... | 17:16 |
| lhinds | there is a couple of others non, a horizon one, and one on mongoDB I need to talk with michaelxin about | 17:16 |
| tmcpeak | I think I have two in progress, Rob has a couple in progress | 17:16 |
| lhinds | I have one embargo to work on as well. | 17:17 |
| tmcpeak | honestly we could probably still use a 4th to work on embargoed notes, given the prevalence of them these days | 17:17 |
| tmcpeak | any takers? | 17:17 |
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| tmcpeak | allright :P | 17:17 |
| lhinds | the other thing was I chatted with Rob about having an API for notes | 17:17 |
| tmcpeak | API? | 17:18 |
| unrahul | tmcpeak: does it require a lot of experience ..? | 17:18 |
| lhinds | where operators could query by release etc. | 17:18 |
| lhinds | started to work on something, its very rough still, so a side project | 17:18 |
| dg_____ | hmm | 17:18 |
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| dg_____ | lhinds that really is quite a good idea | 17:18 |
| lhinds | #link http://lukehinds.pythonanywhere.com/ | 17:18 |
| tmcpeak | unrahul: it requires pretty good security experience… | 17:18 |
| lhinds | it has web front end, but i don't mean it to replace the wiki | 17:19 |
| tmcpeak | lhinds: oh, this is cool | 17:19 |
| lhinds | I tend to design the front end, and then layer a rest-framework on top | 17:19 |
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| unrahul | tmcpeak: ah.. so I am just starting ,so moving on | 17:19 |
| lhinds | helps me sketch out the model well | 17:19 |
| lhinds | but its rough! so don't look at it as anything beyond a half complete prototype | 17:19 |
| tmcpeak | dg_____: you seem like a natural candidate, you interested? | 17:20 |
| dg_____ | for the embargoed notes? | 17:20 |
| tmcpeak | for security core? | 17:20 |
| tmcpeak | yeah | 17:20 |
| dg_____ | yeh im defintiely interestest | 17:20 |
| lhinds | dg_____: +1 | 17:20 |
| tmcpeak | voluntold! | 17:20 |
| dg_____ | apart from a complete inability to spell | 17:20 |
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| dg_____ | haha thanks | 17:20 |
| tmcpeak | spelling is optional | 17:20 |
| dg_____ | see what hyakuhei says? | 17:21 |
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| tmcpeak | yeah, we can wait until next week to confirm, but you have a good mix of security experience and track record of OS participation | 17:21 |
| lhinds | agree | 17:21 |
| dg_____ | ok cool, happy to help out more | 17:21 |
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| tmcpeak | sweet! | 17:22 |
| elmiko | wait, dg_____ isn't sec-core...?!? | 17:22 |
| tmcpeak | sec-core is way overloaded | 17:22 |
| elmiko | ack | 17:22 |
| tmcpeak | we have the docs cores, but then also embargoed notes people | 17:22 |
| dg_____ | elmiko im anchor core | 17:22 |
| tmcpeak | elmiko: I think you were all of those things, but I, for example, am not a docs core | 17:23 |
| elmiko | ah, ok | 17:23 |
| elmiko | sorry to interrupt | 17:23 |
| tmcpeak | just an embargoed notes creep | 17:23 |
| lhinds | elmiko is all the things | 17:23 |
| elmiko | heh | 17:23 |
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| tmcpeak | kewl, anything else for notes? | 17:23 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Blog | 17:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blog (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:24 | |
| tmcpeak | bloggity blog blog | 17:24 |
| tmcpeak | lhinds again | 17:24 |
| tmcpeak | dg_____: etc | 17:24 |
| lhinds | I still have something pending | 17:24 |
| lhinds | s'sup to you guys now | 17:24 |
| tmcpeak | where we at on that? | 17:24 |
| tmcpeak | dg_____: did you get a chance to review? | 17:24 |
| lhinds | had a couple of nit rounds, but should be ok now. | 17:24 |
| tmcpeak | cool, merge it then | 17:25 |
| tmcpeak | yolo | 17:25 |
| elmiko | i gave it a brief look, but meant to go back | 17:25 |
| lhinds | https://github.com/openstack-security/openstack-security.github.io/pull/25 | 17:25 |
| dg_____ | yeah i commented on a bunch of nits, will take another look and we are good t ogo | 17:25 |
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| dg_____ | lhinds ty | 17:25 |
| tmcpeak | ok cool | 17:25 |
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| tmcpeak | thanks dg_____, elmiko | 17:25 |
| lhinds | cool | 17:25 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Security Review | 17:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Security Review (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:25 | |
| tmcpeak | TA is now known as security review | 17:25 |
| elmiko | neat | 17:26 |
| tmcpeak | dg_____: you're kind of leading this, where did we get? | 17:26 |
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| dg_____ | waiting on me to push a couple of patches | 17:26 |
| tmcpeak | ok, are we done with Barbican? | 17:27 |
| dg_____ | ive got one on redrobot's patch on barbican TA | 17:27 |
| dg_____ | and one on the docs for the process | 17:27 |
| dg_____ | tmcpeak - i think so, but lets see what it looks like when i push it up | 17:27 |
| dg_____ | it would be nice to get the designate one through soon as well | 17:27 |
| tmcpeak | dg_____: Kolla wants to do it | 17:27 |
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| dg_____ | designate was an internal one by HPE, which is quite a different process, but i think we pretty much rubber stamp it | 17:28 |
| dg_____ | is sdake here? | 17:28 |
| dg_____ | tmcpeak yeah, we hae talked to kolla a few times, really want to get that one through before the summit - shouldnt be long, althouhg the process is now very different to the one we discussed at the texas summit | 17:28 |
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| tmcpeak | dg_____: for sure, sdake_ showed up last meeting and said he'll set up a time for us to go through this | 17:29 |
| dg_____ | oh awesome | 17:29 |
| dg_____ | did you tell him not to bother making all the sequence diagrams we asked him to before..... | 17:29 |
| tmcpeak | yes | 17:30 |
| dg_____ | ok awesome, thanks | 17:30 |
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| tmcpeak | cool, anything else for TA? | 17:31 |
| dg_____ | not from me | 17:31 |
| fungi | manila was expressing interest in maybe being an early adopter of the process | 17:32 |
| tmcpeak | cool | 17:32 |
| tmcpeak | fungi: that would be awesome, who's a good contact for them? | 17:32 |
| fungi | they just had their meeting a few minutes ago and were talking about it | 17:32 |
| fungi | bswartz is probably a good primary contact but there were several volunteers to work on it | 17:32 |
| dg_____ | who are manila? | 17:32 |
| fungi | let me pull up their minutes | 17:33 |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-09-08-15.00.log.html#l-120 manila meeting log for ta topic from earlier today | 17:34 |
| tmcpeak | fungi: thanks, we'll take a look | 17:34 |
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| dg_____ | thanks fungi | 17:34 |
| fungi | tbarron and gouthamr seem to have volunteered | 17:34 |
| gouthamr | +1 | 17:34 |
| tmcpeak | dg_____: can you synch with them? | 17:35 |
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| dg_____ | tmcpeak sure | 17:35 |
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| tmcpeak | #action dg_____ to reach out to Manilla | 17:35 |
| tmcpeak | cool | 17:35 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Summit Sessions | 17:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit Sessions (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:35 | |
| tmcpeak | just a reminder, we're looking for security activities for those going to the Barcelona summit | 17:35 |
| tmcpeak | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barcelona-security-sessions | 17:36 |
| tmcpeak | if you're attending please add your name also | 17:36 |
| dg_____ | im going to put in a vote for PKI and Security Review | 17:36 |
| dg_____ | not sure if im going, budgets and politics | 17:36 |
| tmcpeak | fair enough | 17:37 |
| browne | i'll be there. got approval yesterday | 17:37 |
| tmcpeak | browne: awesome | 17:38 |
| tmcpeak | that's all I had | 17:38 |
| tmcpeak | #topic AOB | 17:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:38 | |
| tmcpeak | open floor… | 17:38 |
| * dg_____ drops the mic | 17:39 | |
| lhinds | lhinds: body pops | 17:39 |
| tmcpeak | allright | 17:39 |
| tmcpeak | #endmeeting | 17:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:39 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 8 17:39:53 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:39 |
| tmcpeak | thanks everybody! | 17:39 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-09-08-17.00.html | 17:39 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-09-08-17.00.txt | 17:39 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-09-08-17.00.log.html | 17:39 |
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| elmiko | lhinds: thank you for carrying on the open mic breakdance tradition =) | 17:42 |
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| lhinds | hey, got to help the cause! | 17:42 |
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| ttx | SpamapS: meeting ? or skip this week ? | 19:00 |
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| SpamapS | ttx: yes we should do one. Sorry, I had a flight delayed and forgot to reach out to somebody to cover | 19:01 |
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| SpamapS | ttx: I will be on plane wifi, and haven't yet taken off (in seat), so I probably should not chair unfortunately | 19:02 |
| ttx | hmm, maybe skip to next week then. Or do a short one ? | 19:03 |
| ttx | It's now, isn't it ? | 19:03 |
| ttx | Do we have anyone ? | 19:03 |
| SpamapS | #startmeeting arch_wg | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 8 19:03:47 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SpamapS. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: arch_wg)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'arch_wg' | 19:03 |
| SpamapS | ttx: good idea! | 19:03 |
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| SpamapS | #topic roll call | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: arch_wg)" | 19:04 | |
| ttx | Let's just shout ideas of things the group should try to cover i priority | 19:04 |
| ttx | o/ | 19:04 |
| * dtroyer is here but multitasking | 19:04 | |
| * rustyl in his first openstack irc meeting | 19:04 | |
| SpamapS | Hi! This is the first time we've done this meeting. So I do expect sporadic attendence. | 19:04 |
| SpamapS | I have to close my laptop, so there'll be a 5 minute outage | 19:05 |
| KrishR | o/ | 19:05 |
| ttx | I'll take it over | 19:05 |
| SpamapS | ttx: thanks! | 19:05 |
| SpamapS | #topic open discussion | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: arch_wg)" | 19:05 | |
| * SpamapS bbiab | 19:05 | |
| ttx | So I'd like to discuss immediate priorities. I have 3 on my mind | 19:05 |
| ttx | SpamapS already knows about them | 19:05 |
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| rustyl | seems like we should discuss what is left to merge the proposal | 19:06 |
| ttx | 1/ create a solid motivated group | 19:06 |
| ttx | 2/ Start discussing the concept of "base services" | 19:06 |
| ttx | which are things that can be assumed to be present in an openstack deployment | 19:06 |
| ttx | currently keystone, Mysql, and a MQ (Rabbit) | 19:06 |
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| ttx | but we've been talking of extending that set | 19:07 |
| ttx | with a DLM, wiht Barbican | 19:07 |
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| ttx | Additions need to be as limited as possible to limit the operational burden | 19:07 |
| ttx | But we still need to add, to get access to awesome features | 19:08 |
| SpamapS | DLM is becoming more common every day, so is easier. | 19:08 |
| ttx | 3/ Create an overall sclaing model | 19:08 |
| ttx | scaling* | 19:08 |
| ttx | This one is harder | 19:08 |
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| ttx | But we need to define an openstack-wide scaling model. Could be to have each service scale horizontally, could be cells, could be tricircle-like... | 19:09 |
| SpamapS | Key management is tougher, because without HSM barbican is kind of just a toy. | 19:09 |
| ttx | but we need to have a big picture | 19:09 |
| ttx | That would be my 3 initial objectives | 19:09 |
| ttx | But I bet you have plenty on your list | 19:10 |
| dtroyer | I suspect scaling in one for or another will be on many lists | 19:10 |
| rustyl | seems like we need to have something fairly easy to tackle first in order to work out the kinks of how this group works | 19:10 |
| dtroyer | what we need to try and do here is be clear on terms like that | 19:10 |
| SpamapS | I mostly want to make sure any efforts are transparent, and productive. My list is so long, I need help choosing what to even start talking about | 19:11 |
| ttx | rustyl: yes. i think establishing the base service concept could be easy | 19:11 |
| rustyl | ttx: so that would just be a document? | 19:12 |
| ttx | (before thinking of extending the set, just expressing that openstack deployments can be expected to have a MQ, a DB and keystone | 19:12 |
| SpamapS | In addition to "what do we want to change" I want to also answer "what doesn't have a stated architecture?" So we can start to help with understanding of the system at higher levels | 19:12 |
| ttx | rustyl: ideally the same document would list the tradeoff we need to make when considering adding stuff | 19:13 |
| SpamapS | The base system services effort would be a good one to start with for documenting as well. | 19:13 |
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| ttx | i.e. balancing adding operational complexity vs. giving developers more efficient features | 19:13 |
| ttx | The discussion around triggers is a bit of the same vein | 19:14 |
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| SpamapS | But here's another thought that throws a wrench into that plan... What if we want to do micro services? | 19:14 |
| SpamapS | (which I do) | 19:14 |
| ttx | the base services could be the non-openstack microservices :) | 19:15 |
| ttx | or maybe I don't get what you mean | 19:16 |
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| SpamapS | Documenting all the coupling that prevents micro services today will tell us how hard it's going to be too implement. Adding base services might make it harder, since every micro service would in theory need it's own isolated instance of the base services | 19:16 |
| SpamapS | What I mean is that I have a hard time just updating cinder. | 19:17 |
| rustyl | ok, so picking an item to work on that basically results in a document definitly falls into the easier side of things (for some definition of easy), but... i'm woried about figuring out how work in this group results in a set of patches to multiple projects | 19:17 |
| SpamapS | There are interdependencies that have risen from the integrated gate | 19:17 |
| ttx | SpamapS: would it ? a microservice could need to talk to a DLM microservice... | 19:17 |
| ttx | it's microservices, not micromonoliths :) | 19:18 |
| SpamapS | The APIs between cinder and Nova are not well defined and because of that, I have to update them in lock step | 19:18 |
| ttx | yes, that kind of work likely needs to be done in all cases | 19:18 |
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| SpamapS | I want them to be constrained to their public APIs only | 19:19 |
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| ttx | But the scale-out /microservice question is clearly level 2 boss | 19:19 |
| SpamapS | OK going into takeoff now for real | 19:19 |
| ttx | I think we need to tackle level 1 first | 19:19 |
| ttx | OK, I don't have much more to discuss | 19:20 |
| ttx | We could close now | 19:20 |
| ttx | rustyl: anythind to add ? | 19:20 |
| ttx | +g | 19:20 |
| rustyl | quick question.... how to we close on the actual proposal thats under code review? | 19:20 |
| rustyl | seems like the conversation on the review is nearing an end, but no +2's yet | 19:21 |
| ttx | I'm wondering if we need to close it. The Arch WG can exist without approval of anyone | 19:21 |
| ttx | cross-project specs are discussed by the crossproject grop, you can ask thingee for help | 19:21 |
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| ttx | but frankly I wonder if you should go through that step | 19:22 |
| dtroyer | at the least shouldn't the group point at that, or something like it, to define its mission? | 19:22 |
| ttx | or just abando nthe review and take the draft to some arch-wg repo or wiki page | 19:22 |
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| ttx | dtroyer: we should definitely keep the text | 19:22 |
| rustyl | dtroyer: thoughts on getting +2's | 19:22 |
| ttx | I just don't think we need crossproject team approval to start the group | 19:23 |
| * rustyl just realized that dtroyer was already talking... damn lag | 19:23 | |
| ttx | it was useful to iterate on the text | 19:23 |
| dtroyer | agreed. maybe what we need to do is start putting together the structure for this group to put is stiff, and that would be doc #1 | 19:24 |
| ttx | so option 1/ abandon the review, copy the text to a wiki page or some arch-WG git repo | 19:24 |
| dtroyer | I lean toward the repo. | 19:24 |
| ttx | option 2/ ask thingee for help to bring it to the approval stage | 19:24 |
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| dtroyer | I think the API WG=has generally worked well and we can borrow a lot of process from them | 19:24 |
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| ttx | but I fear people would read too much into the need for approval, like they would fear it gives some authority to the group over them | 19:25 |
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| ttx | since people those days seem to read too much into any change proposed | 19:25 |
| ttx | I'll let the choice between options to SpamapS but my personal advice would be to go with 1 | 19:26 |
| dtroyer | ++ | 19:26 |
| rustyl | either way for me | 19:27 |
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| ttx | The immediate action is to publicize the meeting and get all the people who expressed interest to show up next time | 19:28 |
| ttx | then agree on some easy initial target (I'd propose the base services stuff) | 19:29 |
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| rustyl | sounds reasonable | 19:29 |
| ttx | then if all goes well tackle something more ambitious | 19:29 |
| dtroyer | yes. It would be great to have something to talk about in Barcelona, even just informally | 19:30 |
| ttx | fwiw we could totally give the Arch Wg a room for two days at the PTG event | 19:30 |
| rustyl | the base services should be doable | 19:30 |
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| ttx | (space permitting) | 19:30 |
| ttx | so that we can make in-person progress and use it as a sprint | 19:31 |
| * dtroyer is afraid it would be like early Neutron rooms ;) | 19:31 | |
| ttx | yes, I don't want to force it, just let you know there is this option | 19:31 |
| dtroyer | A great option, thanks | 19:32 |
| ttx | agree it could be more destructive than productive | 19:32 |
| ttx | In /theory/ we have extra space on the "horizontal" side of the event | 19:32 |
| dtroyer | that and the comemnts in the review are what keep me wanting to keep the focus narrow, at least at first | 19:32 |
| ttx | (the monday/tuesday) | 19:32 |
| dtroyer | people want to boil the desert | 19:32 |
| ttx | SpamapS: are at at 10000ft yet ? | 19:33 |
| ttx | should we just end the meeting or wait for him to come back and read scrollback ? | 19:33 |
| rustyl | +1 | 19:33 |
| ttx | +1 to end, or to wait ? | 19:34 |
| rustyl | to end | 19:34 |
| dtroyer | he started it… but you probably want to find a pillow by now | 19:34 |
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| dtroyer | I'll hang here for a while either way | 19:34 |
| * ttx wonders if he can actually end it | 19:34 | |
| ttx | let's try otherwise we'll wait :) | 19:34 |
| anteaya | he didn't make you chair | 19:34 |
| anteaya | so no you can't | 19:34 |
| ttx | damn SpamapS | 19:35 |
| anteaya | anyone can end it after 20:04 | 19:35 |
| ttx | ok, I'll do some karaoke and dance then | 19:35 |
| anteaya | next time he could do #chair ttx and then you are good | 19:35 |
| anteaya | oh my goodness, glad I wandered by for this | 19:35 |
| dtroyer | I didn' t know that one, thanks anteaya | 19:35 |
| ttx | aaaaand Iiiiiiiiii iiiii wiiilll alwayyyyys looooove yooooouuuuuuououououou | 19:35 |
| anteaya | dtroyer: welcome | 19:35 |
| anteaya | quick fungi please end the meeting | 19:36 |
| ttx | llloooooove youououououououo | 19:36 |
| ttx | (karaoke usually makes SpamapS reappear) | 19:36 |
| dtroyer | like kibo? | 19:37 |
| anteaya | apparently you need to keep crooning | 19:37 |
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| ttx | Neun und neunzig luftballons.. und ihrem weg zum horizon | 19:39 |
| anteaya | oh I like that one | 19:39 |
| anteaya | haven't heard that one in a long time | 19:39 |
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| anteaya | much better than celine | 19:40 |
| ttx | horizont* | 19:40 |
| anteaya | dtroyer: kibo one of the volcanic cones on kilimanjaro? | 19:40 |
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| ttx | damn, my German doesn't work as well as in 1984 | 19:41 |
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| dtroyer | no, he was a guy in the Usenet days who would pop inot any discussion that mentioned his name | 19:41 |
| anteaya | I still got the jist | 19:41 |
| anteaya | dtroyer: ha ha ha | 19:41 |
| dtroyer | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Parry | 19:41 |
| dtroyer | I only saw it firsthand once | 19:42 |
| anteaya | do tell | 19:42 |
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| dtroyer | in the original comp.os.linux group, someone mentioned him directly and he replied within 8 hours or so. I totally forget what the topic actually was | 19:43 |
| anteaya | what an interesting pattern of behaviour | 19:45 |
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| dtroyer | Usenet used to be fun ;) | 19:45 |
| anteaya | I bet | 19:45 |
| anteaya | so many things used to be fun | 19:45 |
| dtroyer | Then came endless September (AOL) and Cantor and Siegel's grene card spam | 19:45 |
| anteaya | the fact that such a thing was even possible at one point | 19:45 |
| SpamapS | Long taxi | 19:45 |
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| * SpamapS is in the air | 19:45 | |
| * SpamapS reads backscroll | 19:46 | |
| dtroyer | don't look down | 19:46 |
| ttx | SpamapS: yes, you won't be disappointed | 19:46 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:46 |
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| anteaya | this should be framed: http://www.kibo.com/menu.shtml | 19:47 |
| SpamapS | :) | 19:47 |
| SpamapS | ok | 19:47 |
| SpamapS | so yeah, I'm in favor of a less formal process and more forward progress | 19:48 |
| ttx | and of karaoke | 19:48 |
| * dtroyer not so sure about karaoke | 19:48 | |
| ttx | alt.religion.kibology, classic | 19:48 |
| SpamapS | my original thought in using the process was to make sure we don't step on anyone's toes or bypass parallel efforts, but I think we've shown that we're not doing that. | 19:49 |
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| SpamapS | So an architecture-specs repo might be a better way to go. I think we should discuss that at next week's meeting. | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | I'll try to socialize the time for the meeting between now and then. I recommend everyone do the same. :) | 19:50 |
| dtroyer | agreed | 19:50 |
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| SpamapS | thanks to those of you who came. and to ttx for reminding me it was happening while I was in line to board my flight ;) | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | #endmeeting | 19:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:50 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 8 19:50:44 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/arch_wg/2016/arch_wg.2016-09-08-19.03.html | 19:50 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/arch_wg/2016/arch_wg.2016-09-08-19.03.txt | 19:50 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/arch_wg/2016/arch_wg.2016-09-08-19.03.log.html | 19:50 |
| ttx | SpamapS: thx! | 19:50 |
| dtroyer | thanks SpamapS for kicking this off! | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | ^5 | 19:51 |
| ttx | ^5 | 19:51 |
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| fungi | aww, i missed out on ttx's kibo references | 20:30 |
| fungi | that certainly takes me back | 20:30 |
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