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| IgorYozhikov | o/ | 12:59 |
|---|---|---|
| dirk | #startmeeting rpm_packaging | 12:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 15 12:59:58 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dirk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rpm_packaging' | 13:00 |
| dirk | ping dirk toabctl IgorYozhikov number80 jruzicka | 13:00 |
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| number80 | awesome! | 13:00 |
| number80 | o/ | 13:00 |
| dirk | #chair IgorYozhikov number80 | 13:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: IgorYozhikov dirk number80 | 13:00 |
| jruzicka | o/ | 13:00 |
| dirk | #topic roll call | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:00 | |
| number80 | o/ | 13:00 |
| number80 | #chair jruzicka | 13:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: IgorYozhikov dirk jruzicka number80 | 13:00 |
| dirk | please update / add agenda items to | 13:00 |
| dirk | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-rpm-packaging | 13:00 |
| dirk | toabctl is on vacation this week | 13:01 |
| jpena|lunch | o/ | 13:01 |
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| number80 | #chair jpena | 13:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: IgorYozhikov dirk jpena jruzicka number80 | 13:02 |
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| dirk | #topic PTL for Ocata | 13:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTL for Ocata (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:06 | |
| dirk | reminder, this week is PTL self-nomination | 13:06 |
| dirk | I haven't checked, did anyone already send a nomination to the list? | 13:06 |
| dirk | we need to send one by sunday iirc | 13:06 |
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| dirk | I can do it one more cycle but am also happy to pass it on | 13:06 |
| IgorYozhikov | dirk, no, I didn't send anything yet | 13:07 |
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| dirk | any questions? :) | 13:07 |
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| dirk | if there is more than one self-nomation an election will be held amonst the core group | 13:08 |
| number80 | I will be sending a candidacy | 13:08 |
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| jruzicka | dramatic! :) | 13:09 |
| * IgorYozhikov not sure about this cycle, but will think | 13:09 | |
| dirk | #topic Barcelona Design Summit Fishbowl + Work Sessions | 13:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Barcelona Design Summit Fishbowl + Work Sessions (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:09 | |
| dirk | So preliminary allocation results are available | 13:09 |
| dirk | we have 1 fishbowl (40 min) and 2 work sessions (40 min each) allocated for RPM Packaging | 13:10 |
| dirk | I asked in the comments to co-share this with packaging-deb in case there is a need for space/time limitations | 13:10 |
| dirk | I am not 100% sure what happened to that comment, I need to clarify | 13:10 |
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| dirk | #action dirk clarify whether work sessions are co-shared with packaging-deb | 13:11 |
| IgorYozhikov | sounds good, dirk, could you post a link for events topics? | 13:11 |
| IgorYozhikov | or it is not available now | 13:11 |
| dirk | We need to think about fish bowl discussion items and agenda | 13:11 |
| number80 | I thinking setting Ocata goals should be one of them, and 3rd party CI | 13:12 |
| dirk | IgorYozhikov: you mean the conference schedule? I think it isn't done yet (at least thats how I read the email= | 13:12 |
| dirk | we could start with an etherpad | 13:12 |
| IgorYozhikov | dirk, thanx, got it | 13:12 |
| number80 | IgorYozhikov: will there be a MOS CI representative in Barcelona? | 13:12 |
| IgorYozhikov | number80, not sure, will check who will be there | 13:12 |
| IgorYozhikov | right after this meeting | 13:13 |
| dirk | I suggest the start the etherpad for ocata once we have clarification whether it is co-located with packaging-deb | 13:13 |
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| number80 | ack | 13:14 |
| dirk | I added a small reminder section to the openstack-rpm-packaging etherpad for now | 13:14 |
| dirk | any questions? | 13:14 |
| number80 | for now, it's good | 13:15 |
| IgorYozhikov | do we need a separate etherpad for this? | 13:15 |
| number80 | Yes, a reminder section would be useful for long-running topics | 13:15 |
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| IgorYozhikov | 4 example https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/rpm-packaging-ocata | 13:15 |
| dirk | IgorYozhikov: well, creating an etherpad is "standard" for fishbowl sessions to capture the meeting agenda and meeting minutes (unconference style) | 13:15 |
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| dirk | I think ocata-* is the common prefix, but I haven't checked (last time it was the airport code which is .. weird) | 13:16 |
| dirk | but I didn't want to create an ocata-rpm-packaging yet because it might be ocata-rpm-and-deb-packaging instead :) | 13:16 |
| IgorYozhikov | o i c | 13:16 |
| number80 | yep | 13:17 |
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| dirk | #topic Packaging of non-OpenStack hosted OpenStack dependencies (e.g. XStatic-*) | 13:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Packaging of non-OpenStack hosted OpenStack dependencies (e.g. XStatic-*) (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:17 | |
| dirk | a crazy idea I had this morning while reviewing/updating the python-XStatic mess | 13:17 |
| dirk | do we want to move those and other things that are only-pypi also to rpm-packaging? | 13:17 |
| IgorYozhikov | and here I have a question | 13:18 |
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| IgorYozhikov | about xstatics - keep embeded js,css,etc inside or, which is more complicated, to use all embed as external packages | 13:19 |
| IgorYozhikov | as Requires: jsxxxxxx | 13:19 |
| IgorYozhikov | I have such experience - eating a lot of time :( | 13:20 |
| IgorYozhikov | and that is why i'm asking if we will decide to package xtatics | 13:20 |
| dirk | i'm not 100% sure I get the question, but we just package python-XStatic-<FOO> as one package, all in one | 13:21 |
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| dirk | (we==SUSE downstream) | 13:22 |
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| dirk | I guess there is not a lot of distribution difference in there so I'd be happy to move it to rpm-packaging | 13:22 |
| IgorYozhikov | dirk, yes, we do the same in MOS | 13:22 |
| dirk | I was just wondering whether we want to have those templates under openstack/ directory or under some new toplevel, e.g. pypi/ | 13:22 |
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| IgorYozhikov | we tried to separate them in the past and get back to aio package | 13:22 |
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| IgorYozhikov | dirk, yes, looks like pypi will be more suitable | 13:23 |
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| IgorYozhikov | also we can add another projects there not only xtatics in case of necessity | 13:24 |
| number80 | dirk: I'd say nope for packaging them in this project | 13:24 |
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| number80 | most of them are autogenerated and are not moving fast | 13:24 |
| number80 | and they also bundle javascript ... | 13:25 |
| number80 | so we'd be responsible of security updates | 13:25 |
| dirk | yeah, shared burden :) | 13:26 |
| dirk | well, ok, not strong feeling either way, we can revisit that topic later.. | 13:26 |
| dirk | #agreed not package non-openstack hosted python deps for now in common rpm-packaging | 13:26 |
| dirk | #topic Support for additional sources (distro specific) | 13:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Support for additional sources (distro specific) (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:27 | |
| astsmtl | MOS CI now supports pactching (didn't test it yet :P). | 13:27 |
| dirk | great! | 13:28 |
| dirk | what can possibly go wrong ;) | 13:28 |
| astsmtl | It takes all SourceN and PatchN entries and makes them available from %{_sourcedir}. | 13:28 |
| dirk | I did not get to that, I'll look into that. | 13:28 |
| IgorYozhikov | dirk, number80 and here I want to ask about systemd unit files | 13:29 |
| astsmtl | Now we can use this feature to create pacakges for services which contain many additional sources. | 13:29 |
| dirk | astsmtl: I'll adapt SUSE CI then. it shouldn't be difficult, just a tweak somewhere | 13:29 |
| astsmtl | Cool. | 13:29 |
| astsmtl | The second question is about distro specific files and how to handle them. | 13:29 |
| number80 | astsmtl: I'd say conditionals | 13:30 |
| IgorYozhikov | previously there was concern that unit files will be suitable for SUSE and Fedora | 13:30 |
| number80 | we can adapt renderspec to hide the irrelevant one | 13:30 |
| number80 | or we can add a new template macro | 13:31 |
| astsmtl | The other option is separate directories and additional logic in CI to take sources from correct directory. | 13:31 |
| IgorYozhikov | number80, may be a special context function instead of conditionals? | 13:31 |
| IgorYozhikov | like SourceN: {SOMEVENDOR}/foo.service? | 13:31 |
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| number80 | could work, yes | 13:32 |
| IgorYozhikov | and rendespec will substitute SOMEVENDOR with suse || fedora 4 example | 13:32 |
| dirk | yeah, I think that was the original idea | 13:32 |
| dirk | we didn't implement it yet afaik though | 13:33 |
| dirk | I'm not 100% sure it fits into renderspec, as it currently doesn't copy around additional files | 13:33 |
| jruzicka | we can make spec-style (==vendor) available in renderspec | 13:33 |
| dirk | and we could just do it | 13:33 |
| dirk | Source: %{vendor}-openstack-foobar.service | 13:33 |
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| dirk | and then have rpm expansion do its magic | 13:33 |
| astsmtl | Then all files will reside in spec directory. | 13:34 |
| dirk | it might fight into renderspec if we want to use jinja2 templating for the sources itself (e.g. a service.j2 that is rendered) | 13:34 |
| dirk | astsmtl: yes.. | 13:34 |
| astsmtl | I prefer separate directories. It requires one variable in context plus a little bit of logic on CI side, which is probably already implemented on our CI. | 13:35 |
| number80 | quick question, do you have specific guidelines on service files? | 13:36 |
| astsmtl | We do it like: if [ -f $source ] ; cp ... ; else curl ... ; fi | 13:36 |
| number80 | the only one I can think of in RDO is to enforce restart on-failure | 13:36 |
| IgorYozhikov | number80, in mos we use mostly centos | 13:36 |
| astsmtl | We don't have any guidelines, restarts are welcome. | 13:37 |
| jruzicka | separate dirs for dist-specific files sound good to me | 13:37 |
| dirk | number80: nice idea, we're not using that yet | 13:37 |
| dirk | service files are sort of not our priority anyway since we use pacemaker resources | 13:37 |
| dirk | so anything that works is fine | 13:38 |
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| number80 | dirk: yep, pacemaker override package service files | 13:38 |
| dirk | astsmtl: works for me as well | 13:39 |
| dirk | astsmtl: we would need to implement some lint checker that verifies that for all vendors the same set of files are available | 13:39 |
| dirk | hmm, or depending on spec.j2 conditionals. | 13:39 |
| astsmtl | Some may be exluded by conditional. | 13:39 |
| astsmtl | We can try the following approach: implement package with common sources first, if some debate arises - use distro specific. | 13:40 |
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| dirk | works for me | 13:42 |
| dirk | time to move on? | 13:42 |
| astsmtl | dirk, you mentioned using renderspec as rendereverything. | 13:42 |
| dirk | astsmtl: yes? | 13:42 |
| astsmtl | This is also interesting approach, but I have no firm opinion. :) | 13:43 |
| astsmtl | Maybe some else has? | 13:43 |
| astsmtl | someone | 13:43 |
| jruzicka | more specifically? | 13:43 |
| jruzicka | render what else expect specfile? | 13:43 |
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| astsmtl | Render services like specs. | 13:44 |
| jruzicka | From what? | 13:44 |
| astsmtl | From service templates. | 13:44 |
| jruzicka | Like having .service templates? | 13:44 |
| jruzicka | ah | 13:44 |
| astsmtl | Wrap all distro specific part in conditinals etc... | 13:44 |
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| * jruzicka thinks | 13:44 | |
| jruzicka | Trying with common files and making it possile to "fork" into distro specific dirs sounds better I guess | 13:45 |
| astsmtl | I think it's more complex, so we should start with what we discussed before. | 13:45 |
| astsmtl | Good! | 13:45 |
| jruzicka | templating might get complicated when the files diverge too much | 13:45 |
| dirk | I suggest the pramatic approach, start with common files only | 13:46 |
| dirk | when the need arises, we need to come up with a solution | 13:46 |
| IgorYozhikov | agreed on 1st way? | 13:46 |
| jruzicka | yes and then extend | 13:46 |
| IgorYozhikov | if yes - lets do files 1st | 13:46 |
| jruzicka | yup | 13:47 |
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| astsmtl | #agreed Common sources first, distro specific if need arises. | 13:47 |
| IgorYozhikov | cool | 13:47 |
| dirk | #topic Discuss mini | 13:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss mini (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:47 | |
| IgorYozhikov | yes | 13:47 |
| dirk | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rpm-packaging/packages-bootstrapping | 13:47 |
| IgorYozhikov | I'll be quick here | 13:47 |
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| IgorYozhikov | I just started and want to ask - am I right with why we need to do mini? | 13:48 |
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| jruzicka | yes, we got problems with unpackaged/fresh test requirements in RDO | 13:49 |
| dirk | IgorYozhikov: I would summarize it as "cyclic build requires that need to be tied into pieces for bootstrap" | 13:49 |
| jruzicka | way to disable it without nuking sound good | 13:50 |
| astsmtl | Are there any cases of _runtime_ cyclic dependencies? | 13:50 |
| IgorYozhikov | dirk, thank you, will add this and continue work on document | 13:50 |
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| jpena | astsmtl, there shouldn't be a case of runtime cyclic dependencies (at least I haven't found any) | 13:51 |
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| IgorYozhikov | if there are no more questions here - we can move further | 13:51 |
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| dirk | #topic package reviews | 13:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "package reviews (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:51 | |
| dirk | is there anything that you want to bring up? | 13:52 |
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| dirk | it looks like we've been not bad at reducing the list of open reviews | 13:52 |
| dirk | thanks to everyone involved | 13:52 |
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| IgorYozhikov | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/339458/24/openstack/taskflow/taskflow.spec.j2 looks fine | 13:53 |
| jpena | number80: we have an issue with networkx.drawing there ^^ | 13:53 |
| dirk | jpena: question, is the experimental rdo/red hat gate state visible somewhere? | 13:54 |
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| number80 | jpena: I think it's due that we're not building the network-graph package | 13:55 |
| jpena | dirk: we have http://209.132.178.209/repos/status_report.html, not a gate as such but just building the current repo | 13:55 |
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| jpena | I need to sort out a couple details with number80 (dependency packages) before we can have a gate | 13:55 |
| dirk | ok | 13:56 |
| dirk | looking forward to that :) | 13:56 |
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| dirk | is there some dns name pointing to that ip? | 13:56 |
| number80 | well, building this one on EL7 will be painful as it has a billions of bytes of deps :) | 13:56 |
| * dirk is not that good with numbers anymore | 13:56 | |
| jpena | and I try to run the current code against every commit I review | 13:56 |
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| jpena | dirk: no dns yet | 13:56 |
| number80 | dirk: sadly, no, it's hosted on some cloud | 13:56 |
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| astsmtl | Building python-networkx-drawing on CentOS 7 was easy. | 13:56 |
| dirk | #link RDO build status http://209.132.178.209/repos/status_report.html | 13:56 |
| dirk | #topic open discussion | 13:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 13:57 | |
| number80 | astsmtl: you're probably missing many runtime deps | 13:57 |
| dirk | T-2 min until we have to close this down here.. sorry | 13:57 |
| dirk | anything urgent? | 13:57 |
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| number80 | (building it is easy but since it's python, some deps only appear when you try to run the code) | 13:58 |
| IgorYozhikov | nope from my side :) | 13:58 |
| astsmtl | I just took last Fedora package, and moved drawing out of conditionals on with_gdal. | 13:58 |
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| number80 | AFAIK, networkx.drawing is only used in a 2-line methods of taskflow that nobody use | 13:58 |
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| dirk | #endmeeting | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 15 13:59:11 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2016/rpm_packaging.2016-09-15-12.59.html | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2016/rpm_packaging.2016-09-15-12.59.txt | 13:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2016/rpm_packaging.2016-09-15-12.59.log.html | 13:59 |
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| slashme | #startmeeting freezer | 13:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 15 13:59:27 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is slashme. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'freezer' | 13:59 |
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| slashme | Hello everyone :) | 13:59 |
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| slashme | As usual, Meeting topics and recap is available here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer_meetings | 14:00 |
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| szaher | slashme: Hi :) | 14:01 |
| yangyape_ | hello guys | 14:01 |
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| ddieterly | o/ | 14:03 |
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| slashme | #topic Release. | 14:03 |
| domhnallw | o/ | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release. (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:03 | |
| slashme | Just to inform you that we are going to be releasing newton RC1 today. | 14:04 |
| domhnallw | Nice! | 14:04 |
| yangyape_ | slashme: Whether we should take a depth bug fix and test :) | 14:05 |
| slashme | If you have fix for critical bugs to needs to be merged before the final release, we need to merge them quickly. If this is really required, we can have an RC2 next week | 14:05 |
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| slashme | Anything else about this ? | 14:08 |
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| slashme | Okay, Next topic | 14:11 |
| slashme | Still on the administrative side | 14:11 |
| slashme | #topic PTL | 14:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTL (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:11 | |
| slashme | PTL nomination for Ocata are this week | 14:12 |
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| slashme | Is there anyone that wish to nominate himself except ddieterly and I ? | 14:12 |
| slashme | The votes will be held next week. | 14:12 |
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| yangyape_ | whethe you and ddieterly have a plan in next freezer version teh roadmap | 14:14 |
| yangyape_ | I think we should have a general plan about some BP some good idea, such as ceph support， tenant backup and so on. | 14:15 |
| yangyape_ | There should be a priority | 14:15 |
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| slashme | I agree | 14:16 |
| vnogin | o/ | 14:16 |
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| vnogin | slashme, regarding critical issue: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/367917/ due to some reason if we use nember of replicas 2 - shards in elasticsearch are failed. Do we need to investigate why? | 14:19 |
| slashme | Is it a one node cluster ? | 14:20 |
| vnogin | yes, there is only one node with elasticsearch. Actually we use freezer api outside the cloud infrastructure | 14:22 |
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| slashme | This is why. | 14:22 |
| slashme | Ift you set replica 2 on a 1 node cluster, ES tries to find another node to store the replica. | 14:23 |
| slashme | And can't find one. | 14:23 |
| slashme | This is why is ends up with an error. | 14:23 |
| vnogin | correct, so from my point of view it's good idea to use number of replicas = 1 as default value, because all new guys in freezer face this issue after first installation | 14:24 |
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| slashme | Well I'd say it should even be 0. | 14:25 |
| slashme | https://www.elastic.co/guide/en/elasticsearch/guide/current/_index_settings.html | 14:25 |
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| vnogin | slashme, agree. I'll change to 0 value | 14:26 |
| yangyape_ | vnogin: slashme https://review.openstack.org/#/c/367917/ change this patch replica to 0, +w quikly | 14:26 |
| slashme | I think (but not completly sure) that the good value is ( "number of ES node in the cluster" - 1 ) | 14:26 |
| vnogin | slashme, for first use I think it's enough. After that everyone can fine tune it | 14:28 |
| vnogin | yangyape_, yep | 14:28 |
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| vnogin | slashme, actually my point now - it doesn't work "from the box" now | 14:29 |
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| slashme | Well ... In production an ES cluster is usualy bigger that one node. This is why we set a replica value of 2. Thinking the configuration should be written for production... | 14:30 |
| slashme | And in case someone is using a smaller ES cluster, he can set a number_of_replica=0 | 14:31 |
| slashme | But I'm not against changing the default behaviour. | 14:31 |
| slashme | Though we should also update the documentation to specify what the value should be | 14:31 |
| vnogin | slashme, ok, it good idea to add this information to documentation | 14:32 |
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| slashme | Okay so let's update that patch and merge it. | 14:35 |
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| slashme | Next topic | 14:36 |
| slashme | #topic backup of all vm/volume in a tenant/openstack | 14:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "backup of all vm/volume in a tenant/openstack (Meeting topic: freezer)" | 14:36 | |
| slashme | This is something we should implement in Ocata. | 14:37 |
| slashme | The first and obious step is to repair nova/cinder backups | 14:37 |
| yangyape_ | nova backup should be ok, but i have a confused， | 14:38 |
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| yangyape_ | container freezer_backup and freezer-backup-segment which one to store data and metadata, | 14:39 |
| yangyape_ | I put_project nova data to freezer-backup-segment | 14:40 |
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| yangyape_ | backup nova have a validate for path-to-backup. this patch need to review and merge https://review.openstack.org/#/c/368296/ | 14:43 |
| slashme | Indeed | 14:44 |
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| vnogin | do we have any blueprint for all vm/vol backups? As far I as remember we need to have admin rights for nova list --all-tenants | 14:47 |
| slashme | Regarding the feature of "backup of all vm/volume in a tenant/openstack" we will add it to the roadmap. | 14:47 |
| slashme | We are implementing a feature to allow for the freezer-scheduler to execute multiple freezer-agent at the same time. | 14:48 |
| slashme | This will be needed. | 14:48 |
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| yangyape_ | slashme: nice. | 14:48 |
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| yangyape_ | slashme: whether we have a repair nova/cinder backup before rc2, and backup all nova and cinder that have a discuss in next week? | 14:49 |
| yangyape_ | because 10 minutes left | 14:50 |
| vnogin | nevertheless how are we going to gather information about all VMs and VOLs? | 14:50 |
| slashme | yangyape_: yes | 14:51 |
| slashme | What do you mean by informations ? | 14:51 |
| vnogin | IDs for freezer agent which we want to backup | 14:51 |
| yangyape_ | vnogin: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/freezer-tenant-backup this is the bp, we view nova and cinder now :) | 14:51 |
| vnogin | yangyape_, it's about single tenant. I'm talking about ALL_TENANTS backups :) | 14:52 |
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| vnogin | yangyape_, something like - "backup everything" button | 14:53 |
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| yangyape_ | vnogin: everything ? or (all nova and cinder)? | 14:54 |
| vnogin | yangyape_, sorry, I mean nova and cinder for all tenants | 14:54 |
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| slashme | If connected with admin role cinder has a --all-tenant option. I suppose nova has the same and the apiclients do also. | 14:55 |
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| yangyape_ | if all nova and cinder, we need define a mode or a simple parameters to gather nova and cinder with nova/cinder api. | 14:55 |
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| vnogin | slashme, yep, so we going to use it? | 14:56 |
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| slashme | I guess this is our best solution but nothing is definitive yet. | 14:57 |
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| vnogin | I see. I think that it's best option for now too | 14:57 |
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| yangyape_ | we need more discuss in freezer irc | 14:59 |
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| yangyape_ | :) | 14:59 |
| vnogin | :) agree | 14:59 |
| vnogin | let's continue there | 15:00 |
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| yangyape_ | slashme: :) | 15:00 |
| slashme | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 15 15:00:44 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-09-15-13.59.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-09-15-13.59.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/freezer/2016/freezer.2016-09-15-13.59.log.html | 15:00 |
| slashme | Thank you for comming :) | 15:00 |
| * bswartz waves to freezer team | 15:00 | |
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| vnogin | thanks guys ) | 15:01 |
| yangyape_ | thanks guys :) | 15:01 |
| bswartz | #startmeeting manila | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 15 15:01:17 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:01 |
| bswartz | hello all | 15:01 |
| cknight | Hi | 15:01 |
| gouthamr_ | Hey! o/ | 15:01 |
| ganso | hello o/ | 15:01 |
| tovchinnikova | \\// | 15:01 |
| vponomaryov | Hello | 15:01 |
| jseiler_ | hi | 15:01 |
| aovchinnikov | hi | 15:01 |
| dustins | hey-o | 15:01 |
| xyang1 | hi | 15:01 |
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| zengyingzhe_ | Hi | 15:01 |
| Zhongjun__ | Hi | 15:02 |
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| bswartz | #topic announcements | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:02 | |
| tbarron | hi | 15:02 |
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| bswartz | the winner of the logo contest was Zorilla (striped polecat/african skunk) | 15:03 |
| bswartz | #link http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_6f0d111cec78c5ef | 15:03 |
| vkmc | o/ | 15:03 |
| vkmc | yaay | 15:04 |
| bswartz | also, RC1 was released | 15:04 |
| bswartz | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-September/103757.html | 15:04 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: will there be a vote for pic of Zorilla? | 15:04 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: no, the foundation's art team will handle creation of an appropriate rendering | 15:04 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: just 1 variant? | 15:05 |
| markstur | hi | 15:05 |
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| bswartz | yes the theory is for all the project logos to have a similar artistic style and theme | 15:05 |
| vponomaryov | ok, clear | 15:05 |
| bswartz | so now that RC1 is released, all 3 projects have stable/newton branches and we're technically open for ocata development | 15:06 |
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| bswartz | however as always we ask that you hold off merging anything significant until after the final release because it makes backporting bugfixes harder, should we discover any critical bugs between now and release which would warrant an RC2 | 15:06 |
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| bswartz | what we should be focused on now is testing the hell out of the RC and looking for any remaining serious bugs | 15:07 |
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| bswartz | #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings | 15:07 |
| bswartz | #topic Ocata Design Summit | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ocata Design Summit (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:08 | |
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| bswartz | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-ocata-design-summit-topics | 15:08 |
| bswartz | so I just created this etherpad this morning to start collecting topics for Barcelona | 15:08 |
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| bswartz | hopefully most of you know that the Ocata release will be extremely short, due to a decision by the TC to shift the release dates for all the projects on the main release cycle about 8 weeks earlier | 15:09 |
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| bswartz | the result is that milestones in Ocata will only be about 4 weeks apart rather than the usual 6, and we still have the winter holidays in the middle of that, further reducing available time to get work done | 15:10 |
| bswartz | we need to be very realistic about available time to develop and merge new features and we should seriously consider not doing any features and just focusing on quality and retiring technical debt | 15:11 |
| cknight | bswartz: What about features already well advanced but not quite done in Newton? | 15:11 |
| cknight | bswartz: (with specs merged, even) | 15:12 |
| bswartz | cknight: well it's fortunate that we have some of those because anything bigger probably wouldn't fit | 15:12 |
| bswartz | those things which are almost done but didn't make newton are probably good candidates for ocata | 15:12 |
| cknight | bswartz: +1 | 15:13 |
| cknight | bswartz: I can think of one that missed by 45 minutes :-( | 15:13 |
| bswartz | however I think we should reevaluate each one and weigh the effort remaining and risk instead of just blindly carrying over everything | 15:13 |
| bswartz | yes the revert-to-snapshot feature seems like a slam dunk to me | 15:14 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: what about midcycle, will it stay? | 15:14 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: almost certainly not | 15:14 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov: have you see the proposed PTG schedule? | 15:14 |
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| vponomaryov | bswartz: now we will use "design summit"? | 15:15 |
| bswartz | the first PTG, which will replace "design summits" going forward is scheduled for February | 15:15 |
| bswartz | that's around when we would have done a midcycle | 15:15 |
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| dustins | bswartz: Do you have the PTG schedule handy? | 15:15 |
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| bswartz | there have been suggestions that for later releases, Pike/Queens/etc, that we hold midcycle-like discussions at the Conferences themselves, which will end up happening towards the middle of the releases going forward | 15:16 |
| bswartz | dustins: http://www.openstack.org/ptg/ | 15:16 |
| dustins | Thanks! | 15:16 |
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| bswartz | anyways back to my original topic | 15:18 |
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| bswartz | the way we handled deadlines in mitaka and newton probably needs to change for ocata | 15:18 |
| bswartz | I'm working on a proposal and still soliciting feedback | 15:18 |
| bswartz | I hope to have that ready by next week | 15:18 |
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| bswartz | but I feel we need to create some kind of formal process to focus the team's attention more | 15:19 |
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| bswartz | we are fortunate to have a huge number of good contributions coming in, but our reviewer resources have been spread too thin | 15:19 |
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| bswartz | anyways if you have ideas, contact me, and if you're a core reviewer and I haven't reached out to yet, expect me to in the next few days | 15:20 |
| vponomaryov | bswartz: 1to1 or some group call? | 15:21 |
| bswartz | and please start jotting down ideas on the etherpad -- it won't be long until we need to submit design summit talks for the last design summit | 15:21 |
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| bswartz | vponomaryov: I've been doing 1on1s with every core reviewer | 15:22 |
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| vponomaryov | ok | 15:22 |
| bswartz | trying to save you all time and sythesize a proposal that we can all vote on | 15:22 |
| bswartz | synthesize* | 15:22 |
| bswartz | anwyays that's all I had | 15:23 |
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| bswartz | thanks for your great work on Newton everyone | 15:23 |
| bswartz | and apologies to everyone who worked hard on features that didn't land | 15:23 |
| bswartz | we're going to try to fix the process so we have less of the latter going forward | 15:23 |
| bswartz | #topic open discussion | 15:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:23 | |
| ganso | can we still backport this? the fix merged yesterday #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/370815 | 15:24 |
| ganso | backport to mitaka | 15:24 |
| ganso | right now I am waiting for HNAS CI | 15:24 |
| bswartz | ganso: yeah AFAIK stable/mitaka won't lock down for another 3 weeks | 15:25 |
| ganso | bswartz: great! :) | 15:25 |
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| bswartz | backports to newton will be tightly controlled until after the release ofc | 15:26 |
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| bswartz | alright if nobody has anything else I'll give you 33 minutes back | 15:27 |
| bswartz | thanks everyone | 15:27 |
| bswartz | #endmeeting | 15:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:27 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 15 15:27:31 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:27 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-09-15-15.01.html | 15:27 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-09-15-15.01.txt | 15:27 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2016/manila.2016-09-15-15.01.log.html | 15:27 |
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| tmcpeak | #startmeeting security | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 15 17:00:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tmcpeak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | o/ | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'security' | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-agenda | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | o/ | 17:00 |
| tkelsey | o/ | 17:00 |
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| *** mdong has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 17:00 | |
| gmurphy | o/ | 17:00 |
| mdong | o/ | 17:00 |
| sicarie | o/ | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | Mr. Sicarie, back from the dead! | 17:00 |
| hyakuhei | o/ | 17:00 |
| unrahul | o/ | 17:00 |
| tmcpeak | #chair hyakuhei | 17:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: hyakuhei tmcpeak | 17:00 |
| knangia | o/ | 17:00 |
| elmiko | _へ__(‾◡◝ )> | 17:01 |
| tmcpeak | hi knagia, welcome | 17:01 |
| vinaypotluri | O/ | 17:01 |
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| tmcpeak | elmiko is that your finest Jabba the Hutt ascii art? | 17:01 |
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| tmcpeak | speak of the devil | 17:02 |
| tmcpeak | dg___ you're going to be first up | 17:02 |
| hyakuhei | heh | 17:02 |
| tmcpeak | #topic dg for sec-core | 17:02 |
| knangia | thank you tmcpeak :) | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "dg for sec-core (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:02 | |
| tmcpeak | we discussed last time, we need another sec core, dg seems like a logical candidate | 17:02 |
| lhinds | hey o/ | 17:02 |
| tmcpeak | hey lhinds | 17:02 |
| hyakuhei | Seems reasonable to me. | 17:03 |
| hyakuhei | Welcome lhinds | 17:03 |
| lhinds | hey tmcpeak hyakuhei et al | 17:03 |
| tmcpeak | #vote dg yes no | 17:03 |
| sicarie | +1 on dg___ | 17:03 |
| tmcpeak | meh | 17:03 |
| elmiko | tmcpeak: something like that ;) | 17:03 |
| hyakuhei | lol, we don't need a vote | 17:03 |
| lhinds | +1 on dg___ | 17:03 |
| tmcpeak | good, because it didn't work | 17:03 |
| elmiko | #vote yes | 17:03 |
| hyakuhei | The appropriate thing to do is mail a proposal to -dev | 17:03 |
| dg___ | #vote yes | 17:03 |
| hyakuhei | Then the VMT guys / whomever can comment | 17:03 |
| tmcpeak | smells like an action for hyakuhei :P | 17:04 |
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| hyakuhei | As per #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-August/101152.html | 17:04 |
| hyakuhei | The only concern might be the size of the group | 17:04 |
| tmcpeak | I've abandoned -dev :'( | 17:04 |
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| hyakuhei | wow dude | 17:04 |
| hyakuhei | How will you know about all the things? | 17:04 |
| tmcpeak | hearsay mostly | 17:04 |
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| tmcpeak | anybody itching to blast a mail on dev? | 17:05 |
| hyakuhei | I'll happily do it | 17:05 |
| tmcpeak | awesome! | 17:05 |
| hyakuhei | Though I expect the concern will be that the group is now pretty big | 17:06 |
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| tmcpeak | #action hyakuhei to send email about dg for sec core | 17:06 |
| tmcpeak | well not bigger than it was | 17:06 |
| hyakuhei | Yes | 17:06 |
| tmcpeak | we lost elmiko and nkinder and picked up lhinds and dg | 17:06 |
| hyakuhei | Ah true | 17:06 |
| elmiko | +1 | 17:06 |
| hyakuhei | I don't think elmiko is out yet | 17:06 |
| hyakuhei | Ok that should be fine then. | 17:06 |
| tmcpeak | I can fix that, muwahahahaha | 17:06 |
| sicarie | elmiko is doing his best al pacino right now | 17:06 |
| elmiko | yup, you can remove me when necessary =) | 17:07 |
| hyakuhei | ;) | 17:07 |
| hyakuhei | We thank you for your service kind sir! | 17:07 |
| tmcpeak | +1 | 17:07 |
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| elmiko | i'm glad to have been part of such an awesome group | 17:07 |
| dg___ | or better idea, elmiko comes back and does more awesome... | 17:07 |
| elmiko | haha | 17:07 |
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| elmiko | ossp4lyfe! | 17:07 |
| hyakuhei | :'( | 17:07 |
| tmcpeak | allright, next up | 17:08 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Syntribos | 17:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Syntribos (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:08 | |
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| tmcpeak | mdong: ? | 17:08 |
| tmcpeak | unrahul: ? | 17:08 |
| unrahul | hey tmcpeak | 17:08 |
| unrahul | so we are testing the glance this week.. | 17:09 |
| unrahul | and got a vuln finally | 17:09 |
| unrahul | second order XSS , the details Charles would be raising a CR | 17:09 |
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| unrahul | we have improved the tool as well.. so if anyone needs to test the tool .. then they can | 17:10 |
| unrahul | we have templates for neutron , glance and keystone now.. | 17:10 |
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| tmcpeak | nice! | 17:10 |
| hyakuhei | Very cool | 17:11 |
| unrahul | Also in glance we are seeing htere is not much validation for images uploaded from a uri.. it will accept anything as an image url and even allow us to spin up an instance.. doesnt matter if the image is a valid format or not.. | 17:11 |
| unrahul | we are trying to see if something can be done with that.. | 17:11 |
| unrahul | thanks hyakuhei .. | 17:11 |
| hyakuhei | Make sure to fill us in once the bug is out of embargo | 17:11 |
| unrahul | yup!.. | 17:11 |
| unrahul | thats it from us this week.. mdong ? | 17:12 |
| tmcpeak | cool | 17:12 |
| tmcpeak | #topic OSSN | 17:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OSSN (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:12 | |
| tmcpeak | lhinds: you're up | 17:12 |
| lhinds | k.. | 17:12 |
| lhinds | Three notes released: | 17:13 |
| lhinds | [OSSN-0075] Deleted Glance image IDs may be reassigned | 17:13 |
| lhinds | [OSSN-0073] Horizon dashboard leaks internal information through cookies | 17:13 |
| lhinds | [OSSN-0066 ]MongoDB guest instance allows any user to connect | 17:13 |
| lhinds | All public OSSN now closed, and out the door | 17:13 |
| tmcpeak | lhinds: you're a beast! | 17:13 |
| hyakuhei | HERO! | 17:13 |
| tmcpeak | hyakuhei: you have a couple that are really close too, don't you? | 17:13 |
| lhinds | Five embargoed notes to clear (but all assigned) | 17:13 |
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| lhinds | those assigned to lhinds tmcpeak hyakuhei | 17:13 |
| tmcpeak | :'( | 17:14 |
| lhinds | its ok, will be making gentle pings next week with friendly reminders :) | 17:14 |
| lhinds | one other point, tmcpeak - 0075 can be public again. | 17:14 |
| lhinds | was not sure if I should do this, but thought it prudent to check first | 17:15 |
| tmcpeak | oh cool | 17:15 |
| hyakuhei | cool | 17:15 |
| tmcpeak | either way | 17:15 |
| tmcpeak | I've got 74 ready to go (I think) | 17:15 |
| lhinds | I will ping you outside the channel for how to go about it | 17:15 |
| tmcpeak | awesome | 17:15 |
| lhinds | cool tmcpeak , send it over when your done. | 17:15 |
| tmcpeak | will do | 17:15 |
| lhinds | also I think the google docs works well. | 17:16 |
| tmcpeak | +1, google docs gud | 17:16 |
| hyakuhei | +1 | 17:16 |
| hyakuhei | So much easier than faffing with gitlab | 17:16 |
| lhinds | yup, deffo | 17:16 |
| lhinds | that's it for notes from my side | 17:16 |
| tmcpeak | awesome | 17:16 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Blog | 17:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blog (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:16 | |
| tmcpeak | lhinds: you ready for mergies? | 17:16 |
| lhinds | sure, go for it. | 17:17 |
| hyakuhei | oh yes, we need blog things! | 17:17 |
| dg___ | has anyone written a blog on the ATX midcycle? | 17:17 |
| lhinds | https://github.com/openstack-security/openstack-security.github.io/pull/25 | 17:17 |
| tmcpeak | no, would be good to update our thoughts about security review too | 17:17 |
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| hyakuhei | Yeah | 17:18 |
| hyakuhei | I'm waiting for dg___ to finish his TA stuff :P | 17:18 |
| hyakuhei | Last time we spoke he was blocking | 17:18 |
| tmcpeak | looks like dg___ has some comments lhinds | 17:18 |
| hyakuhei | I'll ask redrobot if he fancies co-writing an entry | 17:18 |
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| * redrobot pokes head in | 17:18 | |
| hyakuhei | Once we finish the TA for Barbican | 17:18 |
| tmcpeak | ohai | 17:18 |
| dg___ | hey redrobot | 17:19 |
| * hyakuhei looks at dg___ | 17:19 | |
| dg___ | i am litterally working on that right now | 17:19 |
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| hyakuhei | redrobot we should finish your TA stuff and write it up :) | 17:19 |
| redrobot | hyakuhei agreed | 17:19 |
| lhinds | tmcpeak: I cleaned up dg___ nits, but I don't think I clicked the 'reviewable' buttons | 17:19 |
| * elmiko waves to redrobot | 17:19 | |
| dg___ | although there is a draft architecture page at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357978/1 | 17:19 |
| lhinds | (its a new one to me) | 17:19 |
| hyakuhei | redrobot maybe something for #link https://openstack-security.github.io/ | 17:19 |
| tmcpeak | dg___: review latest from lhinds and see if it's good to go? | 17:19 |
| hyakuhei | oh cool | 17:19 |
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| hyakuhei | I didn't know that was a thing dg___ thanks | 17:20 |
| dg___ | tmcpeak sure | 17:20 |
| tmcpeak | I "acknowledged" his fixes of my stuff | 17:20 |
| tmcpeak | thank you sir | 17:20 |
| dg___ | kk | 17:20 |
| tmcpeak | gr8 | 17:20 |
| lhinds | ok, I marked 'done' against the nites | 17:20 |
| tmcpeak | what else? | 17:20 |
| lhinds | nites/nits | 17:20 |
| hyakuhei | I'll sneak a review in | 17:20 |
| dg___ | hyakuhei its WIP atm, I am currently writing up the findings. I have added 'We need to get improve recording of finding from review, so they make sense a month later.' | 17:20 |
| dg___ | good work on the blog btw lhinds | 17:21 |
| tmcpeak | well since we're already talking security review... | 17:21 |
| lhinds | thx dg___ | 17:21 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Security Review | 17:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Security Review (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:21 | |
| tmcpeak | dg___: has done a bunch of stuff, where we at? | 17:22 |
| dg___ | the third party review for Designate is up, it doesnt exactly match what our process looks like, but I am fairly happy with it | 17:22 |
| tmcpeak | that's fine, A review is better than no review | 17:23 |
| tmcpeak | the fine folks at HPE fighting the good fight | 17:23 |
| dg___ | comments so far from tmcpeak and hyakuhei, all others invited: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/354879/ | 17:23 |
| dg___ | tmcpeak +1 | 17:23 |
| * gmurphy pulls out his red pen.. | 17:23 | |
| dg___ | Ive updated the architecture page for barbican, draft here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357978/1 | 17:24 |
| dg___ | I will submit another patch with the findings added soon, probably tomorrow | 17:24 |
| tmcpeak | champion | 17:24 |
| dg___ | has anyone heard from sdake about kolla? | 17:24 |
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| tmcpeak | oh yeah, where is sdake_ | 17:24 |
| tmcpeak | he was going to set up some time for us | 17:25 |
| tmcpeak | also Manilla - where we at with that dg? | 17:25 |
| tmcpeak | Manila | 17:25 |
| sdake_ | hey tmcpeak | 17:25 |
| tmcpeak | o/ | 17:25 |
| hyakuhei | Oh yeah that's right | 17:25 |
| sdake_ | tmcpeak - we haent set up any time | 17:25 |
| sdake_ | tmcpeak slammed by rc1 | 17:25 |
| tmcpeak | ahh | 17:25 |
| sdake_ | tmcpeak i'm honestly not sure when we will have time before 3.0.0 | 17:25 |
| sdake_ | tmcpeak i'll ping our coresec team | 17:25 |
| sdake_ | how much time d you think we will need to get a rough idea of the new process? | 17:26 |
| tmcpeak | ok, well we're happy to help, we can be accommodating with schedules | 17:26 |
| dg___ | tmcpeak manila is waiting for me to reach out to them | 17:26 |
| tmcpeak | we should be able to complete a good review in 2-3 hours.. | 17:26 |
| tmcpeak | hyakuhei: dg___ agrees? | 17:26 |
| sdake_ | tmcpeak but we have no review documentation | 17:26 |
| sdake_ | tmcpeak and last direction i had was not to use flow diagrams as that model has been drepecated | 17:26 |
| dg___ | 3 hours sounds possible, although barbican is probably running to 6? I think with good pre-work its possible | 17:27 |
| tmcpeak | dg___: you have the latest guidance for sdake_? | 17:27 |
| sdake_ | an example would be fantastic :) | 17:27 |
| hyakuhei | deprecated is a strong word. We've kind of iterated towards only using them to explain complicated things | 17:27 |
| dg___ | sdake yes that is correct, we are still looking to use an architecture diagram, but we are not looking for dfds or sequence diagrams, to try and reduce the workload | 17:27 |
| sdake_ | hyakuhei sorry its best i could come up with | 17:27 |
| hyakuhei | Barbican TA should be a good template | 17:27 |
| hyakuhei | sdake_ it's fine, I just meant any efforts there haven't been wasted | 17:27 |
| sdake_ | is barbican ta in a review somewhere | 17:28 |
| sdake_ | or etherpad? | 17:28 |
| sdake_ | i can get our team rolling with that | 17:28 |
| hyakuhei | They just fall into 'explanatory diagrams' that cover things that required extra info on more of an ad-hoc process | 17:28 |
| hyakuhei | I don't think it's ready yet | 17:29 |
| sdake_ | hyakuhei i dont care about sunk costs anyway :) | 17:29 |
| hyakuhei | We want it to be polished | 17:29 |
| sdake_ | different between nt ready and availaable | 17:29 |
| sdake_ | i'll take available | 17:29 |
| dg___ | not quite yet, we will have the draft process published asap | 17:29 |
| sdake_ | and we can polish kolla's ta from there | 17:29 |
| dg___ | currently decrpyting etherpads and turning that into readable text | 17:29 |
| sdake_ | if there i a threat analysis of baarbican in draft form that would help tremendously | 17:30 |
| sdake_ | if not, can wait on the readable text fro mthe etherpad decryption | 17:30 |
| sdake_ | i/is | 17:30 |
| tmcpeak | etherpad is at least a good reference | 17:30 |
| tmcpeak | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-threat-analysis | 17:30 |
| hyakuhei | Yeah | 17:31 |
| tmcpeak | starting from the DFD at the top and then "Data Assets" | 17:31 |
| sdake_ | tmcpeak thanks - so only thing available is an etherpad | 17:31 |
| tmcpeak | sdake_: currently but dg has some stuff in review | 17:31 |
| sdake_ | yup we hae our data assets recorded | 17:31 |
| dg___ | the draft architecture page is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357978/2/doc/source/artifacts/barbican/newton/architecture-page.rst | 17:31 |
| tmcpeak | you can also look at that | 17:31 |
| hyakuhei | There's also this: #link https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0osRPn3qBq5Ml9JOUVETDhJbVk/view | 17:31 |
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| tmcpeak | come on hyakuhei, be adventurous, share the drawio link (again) | 17:32 |
| sdake_ | ok i'll process thosse - and do my best to get a drat reiew in the ta repo queeu | 17:32 |
| tmcpeak | thanks sdake_ let us know if you have questions or get stuck | 17:33 |
| hyakuhei | +1 | 17:33 |
| sdake_ | tmcpeak i'm sure both of those are a possiblit y:) | 17:33 |
| sdake_ | thanks | 17:33 |
| tmcpeak | :P | 17:33 |
| tmcpeak | ok, anything else on security reviews? | 17:33 |
| tmcpeak | oh, Manila | 17:33 |
| tmcpeak | dg___: did you get a hold of them? | 17:33 |
| dg___ | sdake feel free to reach out on this one, you should have my email address | 17:33 |
| dg___ | tmcpeak not had time this week, sorry | 17:33 |
| tmcpeak | ok no worries, you're doing a bunch of stuff already | 17:34 |
| tmcpeak | who are our contacts from there? | 17:34 |
| sdake_ | dg___ i probably do but will get again offline - i've got a million addresses :) | 17:34 |
| dg___ | ok cool cheers | 17:34 |
| sdake_ | thanks fokls | 17:34 |
| tmcpeak | thanks sdake_, we're looking forward to working with you guys on this | 17:34 |
| sdake_ | likewise | 17:34 |
| tmcpeak | allright, moving on | 17:35 |
| tmcpeak | #topic Summit Sessions | 17:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit Sessions (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:35 | |
| dg___ | i have to drop, thanks everybody | 17:35 |
| tmcpeak | thanks dg___ | 17:35 |
| tmcpeak | if anybody has anything they think would make a good session please add here: | 17:35 |
| tmcpeak | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barcelona-security-sessions | 17:36 |
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| tmcpeak | allright, otherwise... | 17:36 |
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| tmcpeak | #topic AOB | 17:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:36 | |
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| hyakuhei | I don't have much to add | 17:37 |
| hyakuhei | I requested a bunch of rooms for barcelona | 17:37 |
| tmcpeak | when do you find out if we got any? | 17:37 |
| hyakuhei | I guess everyone knows this is the last summit that'll be in this format | 17:37 |
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| hyakuhei | tmcpeak couple of weeks I guess | 17:37 |
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| hyakuhei | I don't have much more to add today. We might have an interesting new IBM technology getting opensourced and incubated within the OSSP but I can't commit to that yet so I'll just leave it dangling here ;) | 17:38 |
| tmcpeak | yayy | 17:39 |
| tmcpeak | allright | 17:39 |
| elmiko | sounds.... mysterious | 17:39 |
| hyakuhei | I know right :) | 17:39 |
| elmiko | =) | 17:39 |
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| hyakuhei | ok, lets wrap and get back to securing all the things! | 17:40 |
| tmcpeak | #endmeeting | 17:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:40 | |
| tmcpeak | thanks everybody! | 17:40 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 15 17:40:13 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:40 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-09-15-17.00.html | 17:40 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-09-15-17.00.txt | 17:40 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2016/security.2016-09-15-17.00.log.html | 17:40 |
| elmiko | o/ | 17:40 |
| gmurphy | later dudez | 17:40 |
| lhinds | thanks all! | 17:40 |
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| vgridnev | #startmeeting sahara | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 15 18:01:27 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is vgridnev. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: sahara)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'sahara' | 18:01 |
| esikachev | hi | 18:01 |
| zemuvier | hi | 18:01 |
| tosky | hi :) (in the proper place) | 18:01 |
| egafford | o/ | 18:01 |
| NikitaKonovalov_ | o/ | 18:01 |
| vgridnev | \o/ | 18:01 |
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| vgridnev | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SaharaAgenda | 18:02 |
| mionkin_ | Hi | 18:02 |
| vgridnev | #topic News / updates | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "News / updates (Meeting topic: sahara)" | 18:02 | |
| elmiko | hi | 18:02 |
| tosky | trying to get sahara-tests in shape for a new release | 18:02 |
| egafford | doc days is going pretty full-speed at this point. | 18:03 |
| egafford | doc days are? | 18:03 |
| esikachev | working on improvements sahara-tests and sahara-ci stability | 18:03 |
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| mionkin_ | Fix deploying HDP on Ubuntu, updating docs | 18:03 |
| vgridnev | so, we did RC1 today, but probably we will need RC2 if there are some translation updates or so on. If there are a release critical bug, we can consider that also | 18:03 |
| tenobreg | o/ | 18:03 |
| vgridnev | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/370948/ | 18:03 |
| zemuvier | fixing tempest cli tests, trying to fix the bug with image registration in sahara scenario | 18:03 |
| vgridnev | so stable/newton branch is now created, so master is open for ocata development (shortly saying) | 18:05 |
| tenobreg | I'm mostly reviewing docs and probably going to pick up some on the list to write it myself | 18:05 |
| egafford | vgridnev: Are we good with backporting doc fixes from ongoing work for stable/newton for RC2? | 18:05 |
| * egafford assumes that should be fine; just checking to make sure I should start cherry picking doc fixes. | 18:06 | |
| vgridnev | egafford, we can merge changes about docs, but only in master, I think | 18:06 |
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| tosky | I would say that doc fixes can be backported after that they are pushed to master | 18:08 |
| tosky | especially because at this point they are definitely relevant to newton | 18:08 |
| egafford | vgridnev: Okay, noted. Thought we had a bit more time to get the docs in place for the release. | 18:08 |
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| * egafford does agree with tosky on this one; it'd be really nice to get our docs to a more accurate place, and the team only really turned its attention to the docs in the last few days. | 18:09 | |
| egafford | We're doing great now, but there are still a bunch of nice to have doc patches up and more to do. | 18:09 |
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| vgridnev | actually official docs are relying on master branch, so I don't think we really need to put those into release right now. we can cherry-pick those to stable branch after official Newton release | 18:10 |
| egafford | Interesting. | 18:10 |
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| egafford | But that works for me. | 18:11 |
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| tosky | oh | 18:11 |
| egafford | It'd be nice to get the docs into the newton release (so the tree will have the correct text for newcomers), but if we need to wait for a point release, it's not strictly the end of the world. | 18:13 |
| vgridnev | #topic Open discussion | 18:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: sahara)" | 18:13 | |
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| crobertsrh | hello/ (sorry, got distracted and wound-up late to the party) | 18:13 |
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| vgridnev | egafford, could you please collect doc - changes to be merged after release? | 18:13 |
| egafford | crobertsrh: crobertsrh as I live and breathe! | 18:13 |
| egafford | vgridnev: Absolutely. | 18:13 |
| crobertsrh | I remain a lurker on reviews....mostly dashboard, but wherever I may have some insight | 18:14 |
| egafford | Your lurking is much appreciated. | 18:14 |
| vgridnev | so, we will have 7wr at the summit | 18:15 |
| vgridnev | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/sahara-ocata-summit | 18:15 |
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| vgridnev | +cm | 18:17 |
| NikitaKonovalov_ | vgridnev: you've asked if there are questions that we would like to address to our users. What are the next steps? How will we see the results? | 18:18 |
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| tellesnobrega | sorry for the coming and going, internet is being a pain today | 18:20 |
| vgridnev | NikitaKonovalov_, so, that was a question from Product WG, and if I'm right will get results with usual presentation about release around summit, but I definitely will ask PWG about that to be completely sure. | 18:20 |
| NikitaKonovalov_ | ok, makes sence to look at their sessions | 18:21 |
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| egafford | I don't know that there's a ton to talk about on image gen at the moment; we have a path and we should follow it. The last session was kind of us sitting in a room agreeing with each other. I can run a presentation for the team on how the new CLI and validator stuff works at the beginning of O if we like, but I don't know whether it's worth taking a WR for it. | 18:22 |
| egafford | LCM, upgrades, and cluster provisioning improvements all seem valuable and big. | 18:22 |
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| tellesnobrega | egafford, those topics do seem like the higher priorities... at least on what needs to be done discussion point of view | 18:24 |
| vgridnev | egafford, if we have free working rooms, we can release that in pool for other projects, but it such case we will need to understand what we REALLY need | 18:24 |
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| tosky | egafford: I would say that in the last session there was no much code and demo to go, but yeah, let's see :) | 18:25 |
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| vgridnev | so, I vote for CLI for image generation WR (we have to complete that for sure in O); Tests, LCM, Upgrades for Sahara; cluster provisioning | 18:26 |
| vgridnev | So, 5, right? | 18:26 |
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| tosky | seems so, yeah | 18:27 |
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| egafford | vgridnev: We're actually really close on image generation at this point. It should be quite possible. Don't know if we'll get to the final stage of having an API to build the images, but I also don't know if that's a very high priority (it'd be nice, but.) | 18:28 |
| egafford | I can definitely demo a bunch at summit during that WR. | 18:29 |
| egafford | (And as long as the team thinks that's useful, very happy to do it. :) ) | 18:29 |
| vgridnev | egafford, so we have the intern who always eager to get some task around API and UX | 18:30 |
| egafford | So we have 2 more slots, and the candidates are: {EDP, Horizon, anti-affinity} | 18:30 |
| egafford | vgridnev: Awesome! Who's that? | 18:30 |
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| vgridnev | (I'm talking about Michael Lelyakin) | 18:30 |
| * egafford is hoping to lure an Outreachy intern as well. Ah, awesome; didn't know he was an intern. | 18:30 | |
| egafford | He seemed to be an awesome developer doing a ton of work. :) | 18:31 |
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| tellesnobrega | egafford, I may get someone to guide on sahara as well, so we may get some extra hands here | 18:31 |
| egafford | Yay new people. | 18:32 |
| tellesnobrega | all that we can hope for | 18:32 |
| egafford | vgridnev: On your side, do you have customers using EDP much or are they just using the native interfaces of the cluster? | 18:32 |
| * egafford is wondering about prio on EDP based on customer usage. | 18:33 | |
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| vgridnev | egafford, actually I saw some customers were using EDP, but not so much. But actually I think that is because it's not so much usable right now | 18:34 |
| egafford | vgridnev: Yeah. | 18:35 |
| tenobreg | vgridnev, +2... we should make EDP a lot more user friendly | 18:35 |
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| egafford | So we're thinking EDP as #6? | 18:36 |
| egafford | (It's certainly a huge area of concern for us.) | 18:36 |
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| vgridnev | so, currently EDP is cool for testing our envs (like integration tests with Swift is working well, and so on). So, sold, EDP for #6 | 18:37 |
| egafford | And #7... | 18:37 |
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| egafford | Horizon, anti-affinity, your-topic-here | 18:38 |
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| vgridnev | so, not Horizon I think, Anti-affinity is in cluster provisioning WR; So, probably we can put that in the pool for other teams? | 18:39 |
| vgridnev | Or | 18:39 |
| vgridnev | NikitaKonovalov | 18:39 |
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| egafford | Yeah 6 WR + CM seems enough to me. | 18:40 |
| NikitaKonovalov_ | I think we can keep A-a for the CM | 18:41 |
| NikitaKonovalov_ | it's not a huge topic | 18:41 |
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| egafford | Yeah, I can't imagine us talking about that for 50 minutes. | 18:41 |
| elmiko | i gotta head out, but just wanted to mention that i will be available for video conference if we want to talk about how to continue the api v2 work | 18:42 |
| tenobreg | seems like a lot of silence in between to hit that 50 min mark | 18:43 |
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| vgridnev | I fear that CM is not a good place for video conference (judging by Austin summit, it was quite noisy) | 18:45 |
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| egafford | vgridnev: Depends on the room, but yeah. | 18:46 |
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| egafford | Okay, that seems like a reasonable set of WR to me certainly. | 18:48 |
| tenobreg | +1 | 18:49 |
| vgridnev | Okay, API + LCM + EDP + Upgrades, Tests + Cluster provisioning + Image CLI, right ? | 18:50 |
| vgridnev | or just CM for Image CLI? | 18:50 |
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| egafford | Upgrades and Tests are the same thing? | 18:50 |
| egafford | vgridnev: I can give a demo and presentation on the image gen stuff in either format; do not care. | 18:51 |
| vgridnev | misprint, egafford . , -> + | 18:51 |
| egafford | vgridnev: Cool. | 18:51 |
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| egafford | Spending some CM time prioritizing all the stuff we just talked about is useful, but it's always like half a day long so I can definitely fit a demo + presentation into either slot. | 18:52 |
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| vgridnev | Yeah, so resolution is that 6WR + cm is enough for us | 18:53 |
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| vgridnev | i will release one wr for other teams then | 18:53 |
| vgridnev | anything else that we can cover? | 18:54 |
| egafford | And CM topics include image gen demo and training, anti-affinity if not covered in cluster provisioning section, prio. | 18:54 |
| vgridnev | yep | 18:55 |
| vgridnev | uh, one moment | 18:55 |
| vgridnev | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/370835/ | 18:55 |
| egafford | +1 :) | 18:55 |
| tenobreg | +1 :) | 18:56 |
| vgridnev | if there are no other topics to discuss we can finish for today. thanks everyone! | 18:57 |
| vgridnev | #endmeting | 18:57 |
| vgridnev | hm | 18:57 |
| vgridnev | #endmeeting | 18:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 15 18:57:59 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/sahara/2016/sahara.2016-09-15-18.01.html | 18:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/sahara/2016/sahara.2016-09-15-18.01.txt | 18:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/sahara/2016/sahara.2016-09-15-18.01.log.html | 18:58 |
| tenobreg | thanks vitaly | 18:58 |
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| egafford | i/ | 18:58 |
| egafford | o/ | 18:58 |
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| ttx | grel | 18:59 |
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| *** KrishR has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 19:00 | |
| SpamapS | #startmeeting api_wg | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 15 19:00:40 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SpamapS. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: api_wg)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'api_wg' | 19:00 |
| ttx | o/ | 19:00 |
| * ttx lurks | 19:01 | |
| SpamapS | Courtesy ping for nikhil, harlowja | 19:01 |
| harlowja | oh hi! | 19:01 |
| harlowja | thx :) | 19:01 |
| SpamapS | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Arch-WG#Agenda | 19:01 |
| dtroyer_zz | o/ | 19:01 |
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| nikhil | \o | 19:01 |
| SpamapS | Welcome welcome! | 19:01 |
| ttx | SpamapS: is the plan to make it biweekly with a china-compatible alternate slot ? | 19:01 |
| harlowja | api_wg or arch_wg ? | 19:01 |
| harlowja | :-P | 19:01 |
| nikhil | arch | 19:01 |
| ttx | oooo fail | 19:01 |
| SpamapS | crap | 19:01 |
| harlowja | lol | 19:02 |
| SpamapS | #endmeeting | 19:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 15 19:02:01 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:02 |
| harlowja | quickest meeting | 19:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2016/api_wg.2016-09-15-19.00.html | 19:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2016/api_wg.2016-09-15-19.00.txt | 19:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/api_wg/2016/api_wg.2016-09-15-19.00.log.html | 19:02 |
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| ttx | I like those | 19:02 |
| SpamapS | #startmeeting arch_wg | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 15 19:02:11 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SpamapS. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: arch_wg)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'arch_wg' | 19:02 |
| ttx | Back to "Better Call Saul" | 19:02 |
| harlowja | oh hi! | 19:02 |
| harlowja | lol | 19:02 |
| ttx | oh damn | 19:02 |
| ttx | o/ | 19:02 |
| nikhil | :) | 19:02 |
| SpamapS | #action SpamapS fix the agenda cargo cult fail to not say api_wg | 19:02 |
| ttx | is the plan to make it biweekly with a china-compatible alternate slot ? | 19:02 |
| * ttx feels like he is in Groundhog Day | 19:02 | |
| Rockyg | o/ | 19:02 |
| SpamapS | #topic previous meeting action items | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "previous meeting action items (Meeting topic: arch_wg)" | 19:02 | |
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| * dtroyer_zz hums "I Got You Babe" in the background | 19:03 | |
| SpamapS | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Arch-WG#Agenda | 19:03 |
| SpamapS | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/arch_wg/2016/ | 19:03 |
| SpamapS | I don't believe we had any firm action items from last meeting | 19:03 |
| SpamapS | Does anyone have any that we forgot to note? | 19:03 |
| SpamapS | ttx: An alt-time with an APAC-friendly time slot is the next topic. :) | 19:04 |
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| SpamapS | Ok, no unhandled actions, moving on | 19:04 |
| ttx | you are on fire today | 19:04 |
| SpamapS | #topic alternative meeting times for TZ coverage | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "alternative meeting times for TZ coverage (Meeting topic: arch_wg)" | 19:04 | |
| SpamapS | I have not done the work to look for an alternative time, but I do think it makes a lot of sense. | 19:05 |
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| ttx | I'm fine with missing the alternate week, so don't try to make the earth flat to solve this one | 19:05 |
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| dtroyer_zz | I would love it if the odd week was the one that moved…I'm double booked right now... | 19:05 |
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| SpamapS | Would anyone like to take that as an action? This time slot is also not the greatest for Europe, so if somebody wants to try and find us _two_ better time slots, that's fine with me too. | 19:05 |
| maishsk | o/ | 19:06 |
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| docaedo | o/ | 19:06 |
| SpamapS | maishsk: are you o/'ing to say you're here, or o/ to say you want to find slots? | 19:06 |
| ttx | SpamapS: we kind of need someone to span both zones thogh and you're the chair | 19:06 |
| maishsk | SpamapS: to say hull to everyone :) | 19:06 |
| SpamapS | Yeah I'm in pacific time zone most days, which suits that nicely. | 19:06 |
| maishsk | sorry - lag | 19:06 |
| ttx | hull! | 19:06 |
| SpamapS | US pacific | 19:07 |
| maishsk | ;) | 19:07 |
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| SpamapS | Ok, I'll take it as an action to try and find an APAC friendly slot in the odd weeks. | 19:07 |
| harlowja | there are countries besides the US? | 19:07 |
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| harlowja | :-/ | 19:07 |
| SpamapS | #action SpamapS find an APAC friendly slot in the odd weeks. | 19:07 |
| ttx | harlowja: beyond the wall | 19:08 |
| * harlowja can't see over the wall | 19:08 | |
| SpamapS | there's... | 19:08 |
| SpamapS | something beyond the wall?!!? | 19:08 |
| SpamapS | you're telling me this now? | 19:08 |
| maishsk | Winter is coming…. | 19:08 |
| SpamapS | ok, so unless anyone else has more constraints for odd week times, we'll move on. | 19:09 |
| ttx | So far architecting is mostly about interesting jokes | 19:09 |
| SpamapS | naturally | 19:09 |
| ttx | If all else fails we could rename ourselves the obscure references wg | 19:09 |
| SpamapS | #topic Group Creation Spec review | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Group Creation Spec review (Meeting topic: arch_wg)" | 19:09 | |
| Rockyg | a time good for UTC+8 or later is good for China | 19:09 |
| SpamapS | * Option 1/Abandon and create architecture-wg-specs repo | 19:10 |
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| SpamapS | * Option 2/Work with cross-project team to land spec | 19:10 |
| SpamapS | Rockyg: that's useful intel. :) | 19:10 |
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| SpamapS | So, I'm hesitant to call any kind of vote | 19:10 |
| ttx | I am for Option 1, I don't really want to set precedent that you need permission to do some team work | 19:10 |
| dtroyer_zz | agreed | 19:10 |
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| ttx | It's not as if the group was asking to be granted special powers | 19:11 |
| Rockyg | yeah. #1 | 19:11 |
| SpamapS | Indeed, I like the idea of self organizing, it also helps clear up that we aren't going to wield power beyond our ability to do actual work. | 19:11 |
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| SpamapS | #link https://review.openstack.org/335141 | 19:11 |
| ttx | architecture-wg-specs can be a referenced under the TC repos to avid creating a project team | 19:11 |
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| harlowja | wfm | 19:12 |
| ttx | SpamapS: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/technical-committee-repos.yaml | 19:12 |
| SpamapS | Creating that repo should be a bit less controvertial than the whole charter for the group in the openstack-specs repo. | 19:12 |
| SpamapS | Ok, so I'll go ahead and bandon 335141 right now, and we'll create a new patch following ttx's link | 19:13 |
| SpamapS | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/technical-committee-repos.yaml | 19:13 |
| maishsk | SpamapS: sounds good | 19:13 |
| ttx | SpamapS: move the charter to the wiki or somewhere | 19:13 |
| ttx | so that we keep it and can reference it | 19:13 |
| dtroyer_zz | given that then, I made this as a possible starting point to incorporate the ideas from the spec: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/arch-wg-draft | 19:14 |
| SpamapS | That's worth fleshing out | 19:14 |
| SpamapS | I'd like for it to be in git, but to get it in git, we need a team to manage that repo. Yes? | 19:14 |
| SpamapS | get it in git -- another fine hand crafted SpamapS phrase | 19:14 |
| ttx | SpamapS: not really, we can make it a TC-owned repo (link I posted) | 19:15 |
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| SpamapS | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/arch-wg-draft | 19:15 |
| david-lyle | change to get into git, and it can be self-recursive | 19:15 |
| david-lyle | nevermind, I'm an idiot | 19:15 |
| ttx | same as the api-wg repo | 19:16 |
| SpamapS | so what I think we can do is maintain it there in the etherpad until we have a repo, and then move it into the repo. Sound good? | 19:16 |
| ttx | +2 | 19:16 |
| harlowja | k | 19:16 |
| dtroyer_zz | ++ | 19:16 |
| SpamapS | #action everyone please review https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/arch-wg-draft to ensure it matches the spirit of https://review.openstack.org/335141 | 19:17 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 19:17 |
| SpamapS | #action SpamapS create architecture-wg-repo | 19:17 |
| SpamapS | Ok, so that handles what I think are the logistics of stating our purpose. Now, about this bikeshed we've all been working on the last 5+ years... | 19:18 |
| harlowja | which one is that | 19:18 |
| SpamapS | #topic Proposals for work | 19:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Proposals for work (Meeting topic: arch_wg)" | 19:18 | |
| harlowja | lol | 19:18 |
| SpamapS | * Base Services - ttx | 19:18 |
| maishsk | :) | 19:18 |
| SpamapS | Perhaps this is premature | 19:19 |
| Rockyg | so can anyone jump in and suggest stuff here? | 19:19 |
| Rockyg | I've got a kinda easy one. | 19:19 |
| SpamapS | I don't know if we can talk about these things without a firm base statement about what they are. | 19:19 |
| SpamapS | In the interest of keeping our process as lightweight as possible.. I wonder if we can have people create etherpads for topics they'd like discussed. | 19:20 |
| ttx | SpamapS: I think stating the current state is easy | 19:21 |
| SpamapS | I'm more concerned about the lack of process the WG has for discussing these topics than this specific work proposal btw. | 19:21 |
| SpamapS | We can just bring them up one by one in IRC, if that's what people want. | 19:22 |
| ttx | I's like us to define the concept of base services and then fold MySQL, Rabbit and Keystone in it | 19:22 |
| SpamapS | But I worry that we'll never get through them in the IRC format. | 19:22 |
| harlowja | ya, its a tough question | 19:22 |
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| harlowja | requires lots and lots of context | 19:22 |
| ttx | Agree that while we know what to discuss, we don't know how to discuss it and the result we produce | 19:22 |
| dtroyer_zz | Having some background documentation is a good idea, and puts a bit of a threshhold on proposals to not just be drive-bys | 19:23 |
| ttx | A set of recommendations and concepts ? | 19:23 |
| Rockyg | Well, if it's not IRC, it's either specs/docs or F2F with lots of etherpad notes.... | 19:23 |
| SpamapS | Right, actually maybe that's the thing to do.. let drive-by's have their 1 - 2 minutes here, and then if they seem worth the group's time, have the proposer present a more complete idea that we can digest in between meetings and discuss in detail. Thoughts? | 19:23 |
| Rockyg | Background documentaation is very good. It helps everywhere. | 19:24 |
| SpamapS | The whole reason for this group's existence is that we have no shortage of overarching topics we all feel aren't getting enough attention. | 19:24 |
| SpamapS | So what I think we may need to focus on is a way to prioritize and promote the best ideas. | 19:25 |
| Rockyg | So, either present driveby's here and/or proposals on the mailing list? | 19:25 |
| ttx | and find some low hanging fruit to start | 19:25 |
| Rockyg | I've got that one rady for the group | 19:25 |
| Rockyg | a DefCore uncoverd issue. | 19:25 |
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| SpamapS | Yeah, I want to start with work we can complete quickly, to get feedback and confidence in the group's purpose. | 19:26 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 19:26 |
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| ttx | SpamapS: we can maintain a number of "open topics" that the group is working on | 19:26 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 19:26 |
| dtroyer_zz | also, limit the number at first | 19:26 |
| Rockyg | a backlog | 19:26 |
| ttx | + a backlog | 19:26 |
| SpamapS | So, backing up from the core services specific topic, let's hash out a quick process that we can apply _today_ for prioritizing and promoting each topic. | 19:26 |
| dtroyer_zz | until we get what process we do want sorted | 19:26 |
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| SpamapS | backlog, yes ok | 19:27 |
| ttx | SpamapS: I'd do a 3-tier system | 19:27 |
| Rockyg | Also, with a backlog, lage issues can be broken down to manageable tasks | 19:27 |
| ttx | SpamapS: proposals, backlog, active | 19:27 |
| ttx | anyone can put something in proposals and get 2 minutes of fame in the meeting | 19:27 |
| ttx | if accepted we can put it in backlog | 19:28 |
| Rockyg | someone's been doing this a while | 19:28 |
| SpamapS | yes I'm liking this | 19:28 |
| ttx | then we pick a couple from the backlog to be active at any moment | 19:28 |
| SpamapS | Did I see or hear somewhere that storyboard has grown card stacks? | 19:28 |
| ttx | and try to focus our attention on those | 19:28 |
| SpamapS | aka "Trello boards" ? | 19:28 |
| Rockyg | I know it's grown, but not sure how. | 19:28 |
| ttx | I'm not worried about tooling, could be a wiki page, etherpad, or something fancy with cards | 19:29 |
| SpamapS | Yeah let's start with an etherpad | 19:29 |
| SpamapS | I'm going to create it right now.. standby | 19:29 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 19:29 |
| SpamapS | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/arch-wg-status-board | 19:29 |
| ttx | Then let's dump ideas in the proposal section, once done we can review them in meeting and give the proposer 5 min to pitch it | 19:30 |
| SpamapS | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/arch-wg-status-board | 19:30 |
| Rockyg | I'll stick the one on I've got after the meeting. | 19:30 |
| SpamapS | You can add it now Rocky, we have a little bit of time :) | 19:30 |
| SpamapS | So, the process we can use is simple. Each proposal gets 2 - 3 minutes of IRC time. Should we vote on moves to backlog after? | 19:32 |
| dtroyer_zz | given the time zone issue, doing it only in real-time might be a problem for some | 19:32 |
| SpamapS | Or more of a consensus process.. anybody disagrees to move it to backlog and we table it for end of meeting? | 19:32 |
| ttx | kid emergency, brb | 19:32 |
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| SpamapS | dtroyer_zz: agreed, so maybe we ask proposers to put their elevator pitch there in the etherpad with the title. | 19:33 |
| SpamapS | We can then just have absentee discussion on the ML | 19:33 |
| SpamapS | and then maybe by the time we do a meeting, it's just a formality to move items to backlog | 19:33 |
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| dtroyer_zz | something similar to the lazy concensus used for other things like core nominations would work, wait a time for objections, then do it | 19:34 |
| SpamapS | +1 | 19:34 |
| ttx | basically discuss if the topic is in scope for the group | 19:34 |
| SpamapS | Yeah, in scope is the bar for proposal -> backlog | 19:34 |
| dtroyer_zz | that allows reading meeting logs and then having a place to go for follow-up | 19:34 |
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| SpamapS | Priority and opportunity will then drive any moves from backlog to active. | 19:35 |
| ttx | ++ | 19:35 |
| SpamapS | dtroyer_zz: you've been crushing it writing things down. Can you add a write-up of this to your etherpad? | 19:35 |
| dtroyer_zz | sure | 19:35 |
| ttx | dtroyer_zz: run while you can | 19:35 |
| SpamapS | #action dtroyer Add write-up of backlog procedures to etherpad and send to ML for discussion | 19:36 |
| SpamapS | so what I see forming here is we have a discussion of our scope, and then a discussion of what to do with our scope. :) | 19:36 |
| SpamapS | Given those two things, I don't know that we should dive into scoping the proposals listed there just yet. | 19:37 |
| harlowja | makes sense to me | 19:37 |
| SpamapS | we kind of do agree on scope | 19:37 |
| ttx | the trick will be the bar between what's arch-wg territory (research & design) vs. what's cross-project spec territory (implementation) | 19:37 |
| Rockyg | Yeah. I agree with that. | 19:37 |
| dtroyer_zz | I hope that bar isn't a thing to throw work over,… | 19:38 |
| SpamapS | Yeah | 19:38 |
| SpamapS | I want us to do implementation too... | 19:38 |
| ttx | we can and should | 19:38 |
| SpamapS | In lock-step with those who are just working on cross-project. | 19:39 |
| Rockyg | I think the bar might be both throw, but also implement. Get buy in, then implement. | 19:39 |
| ttx | but I think we'd go with existing process to implement stuff | 19:39 |
| dtroyer_zz | I'm expecing those who bring things here will be helping provide some of the the resources required | 19:39 |
| Rockyg | ttx, ++ | 19:39 |
| SpamapS | Yeah, so this group might design something, and then go stick it into a cross project repo and do the implementation with that team. | 19:39 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 19:39 |
| ttx | that would be ideal yes | 19:39 |
| SpamapS | The only difference here is that we're going to tackle the design in a methodical way. | 19:40 |
| SpamapS | Rather than just hallway-track it. | 19:40 |
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| SpamapS | Or be pushed to evolve the design while implementing. | 19:40 |
| ttx | and that in some cases there is no implementation really | 19:40 |
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| SpamapS | Ok, so given that, are all of the proposals on the list "things that need to be designed" ? | 19:40 |
| Rockyg | I think the key is, getting a good, solid, consistnent design such that implementation doesn't take as long because the detaails are already mostly there. | 19:41 |
| SpamapS | Is that the bar? | 19:41 |
| ttx | SpamapS: some of it is cost/benefit ratio resarch. Like teh DLM stuff | 19:41 |
| dtroyer_zz | maybe 'defined' in some cases rather than 'designed' | 19:41 |
| Rockyg | dtroyer_zz, ++ | 19:41 |
| SpamapS | Ok, so if it is something that we think needs a strong definition written up, then it should go in our backlog. | 19:42 |
| SpamapS | Agreed? | 19:42 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 19:42 |
| ttx | yes | 19:43 |
| dtroyer_zz | ++ | 19:43 |
| Rockyg | Also, if a cost/benefit POC is needed, backlog? | 19:43 |
| SpamapS | So let's take a minute and just move all the proposals into the backlog (or reject them if they're not in need of a definition) | 19:43 |
| SpamapS | Rockyg: I'd say that's part of a strong definition. | 19:43 |
| Rockyg | thanks | 19:43 |
| SpamapS | So, I suggest that we leave the etherpad as it is, and let dtroyer_zz send out the process we've discussed, including this bar, to the ML | 19:45 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 19:45 |
| harlowja | cool | 19:45 |
| ttx | I'd love to hear the pitch on some of those | 19:45 |
| ttx | because I'm not sure they fit :) | 19:45 |
| SpamapS | Agreed, and I think we want that pitch to come on the ML | 19:46 |
| ttx | or at least, i'm not sure what they are about | 19:46 |
| ttx | oh sure | 19:46 |
| SpamapS | And then if it's not obviously +1 to backlog, "please attend a meeting and we'll discuss in realtime" | 19:46 |
| harlowja | micro service architecture could explode into a big thing :-P | 19:46 |
| Rockyg | real big | 19:47 |
| dtroyer_zz | philosophical question: would we want to house those pitch docs in our repo to facillitate discussion on them liek we do specs? | 19:47 |
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| SpamapS | Yes Micro Service architecture is something that would need a set of design tenets first, and then a discussion of the benefits, and then it might turn into 20 implementations. | 19:47 |
| dtroyer_zz | or keep that outside in wiki/eitherpad/whatever? | 19:47 |
| ttx | well, the pitch is not to solve the problem in one thread, just to introduce it as a potential topic for the arch WG | 19:47 |
| SpamapS | But I think that's the sort of thing we all want to work out. We may at some point throw up our hands and say it's going to be too big and throw it to the bottom of the backlog, but I want to _stop_ having people hoping and praying for it. | 19:47 |
| Rockyg | I think we should put the docs in a repo. Good for concept docs. | 19:47 |
| ttx | like if we pitch scaling approaches and we get stuck in a tricircle vs. Nova Cellsv2 argument, we lost | 19:48 |
| dtroyer_zz | right, but I don't want to lose that discussion, it'll happen again | 19:48 |
| SpamapS | I see what dtroyer_zz is saying | 19:48 |
| Rockyg | unless we find a way to abstract both approaches to one api... | 19:48 |
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| SpamapS | spec reviews tend to stay quite a bit more civil and focused than ML threads | 19:48 |
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| ttx | maybe we should do pitches in review form | 19:49 |
| SpamapS | Yeah, so if we set it up as a specs repo, and ask people to submit specs, they'll be used to that process. | 19:49 |
| ttx | no strong opinion on that | 19:49 |
| Rockyg | If we do them in review form, we'd need the weekly email summary like the api wg does | 19:49 |
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| SpamapS | But then that begs the question, why not use openstack-specs for that? | 19:49 |
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| dtroyer_zz | so the repo would have proposals/ backlog/ and active/, plus whatever we call finished docs | 19:50 |
| harlowja | same as ttx , no strong opinion from me either | 19:50 |
| dtroyer_zz | I think we want to seep idea-like things out of openstack-specs, that is for planned work | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | Ah ok | 19:50 |
| dtroyer_zz | *to keep | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | makes sense | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | I like the idea of the repo being the card list.. except, proposals basically has to be almost auto-approve-if-well-formatted. | 19:51 |
| SpamapS | I want proposing to be only slightly more heavyweight than hallway-track-topic-shifting | 19:51 |
| ttx | it's not a spec, it's just a topic pitch | 19:51 |
| ttx | I'd keep the format pretty basic | 19:52 |
| SpamapS | We could just have pending reviews to backlog == prposals | 19:52 |
| SpamapS | Which makes a lot of sense to me. | 19:52 |
| SpamapS | Since we want anyone who wants to participate to be able to propose. | 19:52 |
| ttx | oh, yes good idea | 19:52 |
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| dtroyer_zz | yeah, proposal approval would be mostly a sanity check I'd think | 19:52 |
| SpamapS | dtroyer_zz: what do yu think about that? just have a backlog and active dir | 19:52 |
| dtroyer_zz | sure | 19:52 |
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| SpamapS | that way we can always be working the proposals as a review queue | 19:53 |
| SpamapS | and then meetings are just for check-ins on that | 19:53 |
| Rockyg | Should there be a template for proposals? | 19:53 |
| dtroyer_zz | we may want an attic for things removed, or just dump them | 19:53 |
| SpamapS | yeah we can use a spec-like template | 19:53 |
| SpamapS | with less structure than the usual spec | 19:53 |
| ttx | we could even do one directory per active topic so that we can produce multiple docs | 19:53 |
| SpamapS | dtroyer_zz: +1, we can attic things when we get there. :) | 19:53 |
| SpamapS | and we can make the structure deeper as needed | 19:53 |
| ttx | I expect some of those to end up quite complex | 19:54 |
| SpamapS | dtroyer_zz: ok, so are you still good with writing _this_ up as the process? | 19:54 |
| SpamapS | to summarize: | 19:54 |
| dtroyer_zz | I am | 19:54 |
| SpamapS | * propose against {repo name}/backlog | 19:54 |
| SpamapS | * approved to backlog == in scope | 19:54 |
| SpamapS | * backlog items moved to {repo name}/active once group agrees to work on things. | 19:55 |
| SpamapS | I already have the action to create a repo | 19:55 |
| SpamapS | who wants to be core? | 19:55 |
| dtroyer_zz | o/ | 19:56 |
| ttx | who doesn't want to be a "core architect" | 19:56 |
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| harlowja | i'll take core, lol | 19:56 |
| SpamapS | I'd propose that it be more than just myself, dtroyer, and ttx .. moar coars | 19:56 |
| ttx | I'm fine being just a spectator, fwiw | 19:56 |
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| SpamapS | ttx: k, but I want you to have +2 powers :) | 19:56 |
| harlowja | do i get a ring if i'm core? | 19:56 |
| Rockyg | Yeah, I would too, but I'm on cusistncy, etc, not implementation | 19:56 |
| SpamapS | so if you're spectating and you agree with the presenter, you can express it fully :) | 19:57 |
| ttx | But can core until the thing flies by itself | 19:57 |
| Rockyg | consistnecy | 19:57 |
| Rockyg | consistency | 19:57 |
| SpamapS | I also think we might want to tinker with 2*+2 | 19:57 |
| SpamapS | But we're out of time | 19:57 |
| * dtroyer_zz makes note of alternate spellings of his favorite word | 19:57 | |
| Rockyg | yeah. We've got some details to get too once we get tharger framework | 19:57 |
| SpamapS | #action SpamapS make dtroyer harlowja ttx Rockyg initial cores of architecture-wg repo | 19:57 |
| harlowja | wfm | 19:58 |
| harlowja | ring to right? | 19:58 |
| nikhil | ohai! | 19:58 |
| SpamapS | nikhil: ohhaaaaaaai | 19:58 |
| nikhil | how can I get into the inner circle :P | 19:58 |
| harlowja | #action SpamapS get the arch-core rings ordered | 19:58 |
| nikhil | ? | 19:58 |
| SpamapS | 1 minute left | 19:58 |
| nikhil | SpamapS: ^ | 19:58 |
| SpamapS | rings? We're getting tattoos | 19:58 |
| Rockyg | hey, nihkil | 19:58 |
| harlowja | :-/ | 19:58 |
| nikhil | Rockyg: hi | 19:58 |
| harlowja | ok , tattoos if we must | 19:58 |
| nikhil | SpamapS: I was busy writing release notes for glance for rc1 | 19:59 |
| SpamapS | #action SpamapS add nikhil to initial cores as well | 19:59 |
| Rockyg | No tats for me., but I'll take a cool ring | 19:59 |
| nikhil | but I am in this whole new effort! | 19:59 |
| SpamapS | Basically to start, if you show up, you get the ring of power | 19:59 |
| SpamapS | ok | 19:59 |
| SpamapS | that's all the time we have everyone | 19:59 |
| nikhil | ha | 19:59 |
| ttx | my precious | 19:59 |
| SpamapS | thanks so much for showing up! See you all on the mailing list in the [architecture] topic. :) | 19:59 |
| Rockyg | just under the wire, nihkil | 19:59 |
| SpamapS | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 15 19:59:48 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/arch_wg/2016/arch_wg.2016-09-15-19.02.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/arch_wg/2016/arch_wg.2016-09-15-19.02.txt | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/arch_wg/2016/arch_wg.2016-09-15-19.02.log.html | 19:59 |
| SpamapS | oh and in #openstack-architecture | 19:59 |
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| nikhil | Rockyg: indeed | 20:01 |
| nikhil | Rockyg: actually I was following up but too busy addressing bountiful comments on our nice release notes https://review.openstack.org/#/c/366973/ | 20:01 |
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| Rockyg | nikhil, check out the etherpad. There is a glance/cinder/nova issue I put out there. Glance doesn't currently deal the same with images on volumes as images in glance. | 20:03 |
| nikhil | Rockyg: as images in nova/ironic you mean? | 20:04 |
| Rockyg | Need to extend the design/api/code to hide the image access process behind a single api, like get me a network, but with images | 20:04 |
| Rockyg | let's move this to #openstack-architecture and continue | 20:05 |
| nikhil | Rockyg: this is new to hear.. ouch | 20:05 |
| nikhil | Rockyg: we were too busy fighting the import refactor specs.openstack.org/openstack/glance-specs/specs/mitaka/approved/image-import/image-import-refactor.html | 20:05 |
| nikhil | Rockyg: lemme read the email/thread but my guess is the above spec will cover (at least most) things | 20:06 |
| Rockyg | Yeah. Not really a problem. The real key is missing functionality needs to be designd and implemented to promote interop | 20:06 |
| nikhil | Rockyg: ack | 20:08 |
| nikhil | Rockyg: I may sleep on this one for a couple of days. will loop back with you on #openstack-architecture | 20:08 |
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| Rockyg | thanks. | 20:11 |
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