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| edleafe | #startmeeting nova_scheduler | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Dec 5 14:00:25 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is edleafe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 14:00 |
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| edleafe | Good UGT morning! Who's here? | 14:00 |
| cdent | o/ | 14:00 |
| macsz | \o | 14:00 |
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| edleafe | The agenda is in the usual place: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NovaScheduler#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 14:01 |
| edleafe | Hmmm... quiet so far. Have the holiday doldrums started early this year? | 14:02 |
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| macsz | 3 is a crowd | 14:02 |
| * _gryf waves late | 14:02 | |
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| cdent | maybe we need to do some louder pinging of jaypipes and bauzas ? | 14:03 |
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| edleafe | I really hate that practice. We all have calendars, don't we? | 14:04 |
| edleafe | Mine even have alarms! | 14:04 |
| jaypipes | cdent: U;n gere | 14:04 |
| jaypipes | cdent: guh, typing. | 14:05 |
| jaypipes | cdent: I'm here :) | 14:05 |
| edleafe | Go home jaypipes - you're drunk | 14:05 |
| _gryf | :D | 14:05 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: no, just on two meetings simultaneously :) | 14:05 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: :) | 14:05 |
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| edleafe | Well, let's get started | 14:05 |
| * cdent sits comfortably | 14:05 | |
| edleafe | #topic Specs & Reviews | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs & Reviews (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:06 | |
| edleafe | I listed several of the current bits of code being worked on in the Agenda | 14:06 |
| edleafe | Any questions/comments about any of them? | 14:06 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: not from me. | 14:06 |
| cdent | is nice to see so much going on | 14:07 |
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| edleafe | My only question was on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/362766/. cdent, is that out of the running for Ocata? | 14:07 |
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| cdent | I have no idea. | 14:07 |
| edleafe | Well, Matt pointed out that the BP wasn't approved, and then didn't approve it | 14:08 |
| cdent | because he wanted a spec | 14:08 |
| edleafe | I read that as "not gonna happen in Ocata" | 14:08 |
| cdent | and then the spec didn't get created because there wasn't consensus on what was wanted | 14:08 |
| cdent | so an etherpad was created on which peope were going to decide what they wanted | 14:09 |
| edleafe | BPs can be approved before the spec is done | 14:09 |
| cdent | and it seemed to stall there | 14:09 |
| edleafe | Link to the etherpad? | 14:09 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: yeah, just not a priority. | 14:09 |
| cdent | so my interpretation is that the current state of opinion is "meh, we'll wait and see" | 14:09 |
| cdent | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/placement-optional-db-spec | 14:09 |
| jaypipes | cdent: ya | 14:09 |
| edleafe | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/placement-optional-db-spec | 14:09 |
| edleafe | Yeah, it seems to have come full circle: from optional in Newton, mandatory in Ocata, to "meh" | 14:10 |
| cdent | (my current opinion is that we should try hard to make it not matter: placement database wherever it lives should be self healing) | 14:10 |
| edleafe | OK, let's move on then | 14:11 |
| edleafe | #topic Bugs | 14:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:11 | |
| edleafe | cdent: You added https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1647316 this morning | 14:12 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1647316 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "scheduler report client sends allocations with value of zero, violating min_unit" [Medium,Triaged] - Assigned to Chris Dent (cdent) | 14:12 |
| edleafe | If you like, I can take that | 14:12 |
| cdent | yeah, EmilienM is workign on puppet integration and discovered that while doing tests with ceph-based storage | 14:12 |
| cdent | edleafe: have at if you have time/interest | 14:12 |
| edleafe | I agree that if the amount is zero, there shouldn't be an allocation created | 14:12 |
| edleafe | Done. Assigned it to me | 14:13 |
| cdent | ✔ | 14:13 |
| edleafe | Any other bugs we need to discuss? | 14:13 |
| cdent | yeah, there's one thing: | 14:13 |
| edleafe | ok | 14:14 |
| cdent | this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/395194/ is a proposed fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1635182 | 14:14 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1635182 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "[placement] in api code repeated need to restate json_error_formatter is error prone" [Low,In progress] - Assigned to Pushkar Umaranikar (pushkar-umaranikar) | 14:14 |
| cdent | however, all the proposed fixes have failed to actually work because webob has proven difficult. so what's needed are some additional eyes to help discern additional strategies | 14:15 |
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| jaypipes | cdent: no disagreements from me on that. I trust you on API-level stuff more than my own opinion :) | 14:15 |
| * cdent is feeling pretty "meh" about webob | 14:16 | |
| jaypipes | cdent: yeah | 14:16 |
| jaypipes | not a fan either. | 14:16 |
| cdent | mehs all around | 14:16 |
| edleafe | cdent: so my quick impression: is this something that is needed with the nova stack because it is so dense, but your simpler WSGI implementation in placement makes this unnecessary? | 14:17 |
| cdent | anyway, if people have some ideas, that would be great | 14:17 |
| cdent | edleafe: which "this" do you mean? | 14:17 |
| edleafe | the json_formatter addition | 14:18 |
| cdent | that's there to get placement api to follow the api-wg errors guideline | 14:18 |
| cdent | nova-api doesn't follow that | 14:18 |
| edleafe | cdent: ah, ok. So what is the downside of adding the json_formatter to the exception raising? | 14:19 |
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| cdent | boilerplate that's easy to forget. it's not the end of the world, would just be nice if there was a way to do it once | 14:20 |
| cdent | (without awful monkey hacks) | 14:20 |
| edleafe | ok, so the objection is one of elegance, not merely necessity | 14:21 |
| edleafe | (which I totally get) | 14:21 |
| cdent | elegance + wanting to make sure all exceptions do in fact follow the guideline | 14:21 |
| cdent | s/e$/e elegantly/ | 14:21 |
| cdent | it would be totally fair to say "meh, too hard, let's work on other stuff" | 14:22 |
| edleafe | I don't see those as different. If they are, that's not very elegant. :) | 14:22 |
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| edleafe | #topic Open discussion | 14:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:23 | |
| edleafe | to remotable or not to remotable, that is the question: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404279/ | 14:23 |
| edleafe | cdent: care to start? | 14:23 |
| cdent | (on json_formatter) If Pushkar is able to come up with something, then cool, otherwise may as well let it die | 14:23 |
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| cdent | yeah, without bauzas here it might be hard though | 14:23 |
| cdent | basically most of here have already said that we think it would be reasonable to get rid of remotable on the resource provider objects that the placement api uses | 14:24 |
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| edleafe | The idea as I understand it is that we don't need remotable, we don't foresee ever needing remotable, so let's simplify our objects | 14:24 |
| cdent | this is because the intent is that the http api be the one interface | 14:24 |
| cdent | and thus we don't need remotable | 14:24 |
| edleafe | cdent: agreed on that point | 14:24 |
| cdent | in irc discussion bauzas objected, essentially saying "but what if we change our mind" | 14:24 |
| edleafe | it does seem more like a nova-ism | 14:24 |
| cdent | to which I responded "YAGNI" | 14:25 |
| edleafe | with inter-service RPC calls being the norm | 14:25 |
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| edleafe | I like the idea of removing it if for no other reason than to discourage the sort of calls that are common in Nova | 14:25 |
| cdent | yeah, the idea is that api won't need/want multiple services to perform its function | 14:25 |
| cdent | and thus RPC is out | 14:26 |
| cdent | thus we should remove unused code (even if it "doesn't hurt anything") | 14:26 |
| edleafe | the other side of the argument is that placement may grow over time, and we may need RPC within placement | 14:26 |
| edleafe | Again, YAGNI seems about right | 14:26 |
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| jaypipes | cdent: yeah, kill the remoteable methods, IMHO. | 14:27 |
| cdent | _gryf or macsz any thoughts? | 14:28 |
| edleafe | #action edleafe jaypipes _gryf macsz to weigh in on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/404279/ | 14:28 |
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| cdent | cool | 14:28 |
| _gryf | I think that if we need any rpc later, do the appropriate work later :) | 14:28 |
| edleafe | Since bauzas isn't here, let's discuss on the review | 14:28 |
| jaypipes | _gryf: ++ | 14:28 |
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| _gryf | i would focus on non remotable now | 14:28 |
| edleafe | Any other topics for Opens? | 14:29 |
| _gryf | edleafe, I've sent a patch for Add a retry loop to ResourceClass creation | 14:29 |
| _gryf | check it put | 14:29 |
| _gryf | *out | 14:29 |
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| edleafe | _gryf: yes, I saw it. Thanks for pitching in | 14:30 |
| _gryf | there are two things | 14:30 |
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| _gryf | which might bother me and cdent | 14:30 |
| _gryf | one is how many retries we would need | 14:30 |
| _gryf | and those exceptions | 14:30 |
| _gryf | thinkgy | 14:30 |
| _gryf | thingy* | 14:31 |
| * _gryf hands are frozen | 14:31 | |
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| edleafe | I like keeping the # of retries high enough that we'll never hit it, but having it there prevents the infinite loop that cdent was concerned about | 14:31 |
| _gryf | edleafe, 100? 10,000 ? :) | 14:31 |
| edleafe | I'd love some insights into how to distinguish the duplicate entry | 14:32 |
| cdent | (i recognize that the odds of the loop are really low, but still) | 14:32 |
| edleafe | 10 seems fine | 14:32 |
| _gryf | that was my shot either | 14:32 |
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| edleafe | Also, I believe that DBDuplicateEntry should always have the 'columns' attribute | 14:33 |
| edleafe | so I don't see the need for the hasattr that Matt suggested | 14:34 |
| * _gryf will check that, otherwise edleafe want to take it cover from here | 14:34 | |
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| edleafe | _gryf: sure, I can pick it back up | 14:34 |
| _gryf | cool | 14:34 |
| edleafe | I was planning on working on it this morning anyway | 14:34 |
| edleafe | was happy to see you already did most of the work :) | 14:35 |
| _gryf | anything I can help with, you can ping me on #openstack-nova | 14:35 |
| edleafe | The only other thing I think we need is a log message if we hit the retry limit. | 14:35 |
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| edleafe | that way we know if 10 is too low | 14:35 |
| _gryf | +1 | 14:36 |
| edleafe | I know the calling methods will probably log the error, but this way when we have evidence that 10 is not too low, we can remove that specific log entry | 14:36 |
| edleafe | Otherwise we are just guessing as to how often these conflicts will happen | 14:37 |
| * _gryf also wondering, if that retry count needs a config option | 14:37 | |
| edleafe | cdent: I think if there is a script to add a bunch of Ironic nodes, and it has to add nested RPs for each, it could be hit that way | 14:38 |
| edleafe | _gryf: no, please, not a config option! | 14:38 |
| edleafe | :) | 14:38 |
| cdent | _gryf: no config! | 14:38 |
| cdent | jinx | 14:38 |
| _gryf | ok… :) | 14:38 |
| edleafe | This isn't anything an operator should ever have to think about | 14:38 |
| edleafe | It's just a failsafe to prevent infinite loops | 14:39 |
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| macsz | :) | 14:39 |
| edleafe | So maybe let's make it 100 - we should never hit it then | 14:39 |
| edleafe | and 640K will always be enough | 14:39 |
| edleafe | :) | 14:39 |
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| _gryf | yeah :) | 14:39 |
| edleafe | OK, I'll get to that later today. | 14:40 |
| edleafe | Anyone have anything else for Opens? | 14:40 |
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| cdent | no sir | 14:40 |
| * _gryf neither | 14:40 | |
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| edleafe | OK, thanks everyone! | 14:41 |
| edleafe | #endmeeting | 14:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:41 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Dec 5 14:41:15 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:41 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2016/nova_scheduler.2016-12-05-14.00.html | 14:41 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2016/nova_scheduler.2016-12-05-14.00.txt | 14:41 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2016/nova_scheduler.2016-12-05-14.00.log.html | 14:41 |
| cdent | thanks edleafe | 14:41 |
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| electrocucaracha | Just in case - this meeting was cancelled http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-December/108449.html | 15:06 |
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| harlowja_at_home | #startmeeting oslo | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Dec 5 16:00:12 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is harlowja_at_home. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 16:00 |
| harlowja_at_home | courtesy ping for amotoki, amrith, bknudson, bnemec, dansmith, dhellmann, dims | 16:00 |
| harlowja_at_home | courtesy ping for dougwig, e0ne, electrocucaracha, flaper87, garyk, gcb, GheRivero | 16:00 |
| harlowja_at_home | courtesy ping for haypo, jd__, jecarey, johnsom, jungleboyj, kgiusti, kragniz | 16:00 |
| harlowja_at_home | courtesy ping for lifeless, lxsli, Nakato, ozamiatin, rbradfor, redrobot, rloo | 16:00 |
| harlowja_at_home | courtesy ping for rpodolyaka, sergmelikyan, sileht, spamaps, sreshetnyak, sreshetnyak, stevemar | 16:00 |
| harlowja_at_home | courtesy ping for therve, thinrichs, toabctl, viktors, zhiyan, zzzeek | 16:00 |
| electrocucaracha | o/ | 16:00 |
| rpodolyaka | o/ | 16:00 |
| gcb | o/ | 16:00 |
| harlowja_at_home | hellooooo | 16:00 |
| harlowja_at_home | ha | 16:00 |
| tovin07 | o/ | 16:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 16:00 |
| johnsom | o/ | 16:00 |
| rloo | o/ | 16:00 |
| sileht | o/ | 16:00 |
| kgiusti | o/ | 16:00 |
| * dhellmann listens with 1 ear while in another meeting | 16:00 | |
| harlowja_at_home | #topic Red flags for/from liaisons | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red flags for/from liaisons (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:01 | |
| harlowja_at_home | anything busted due to mega-oslo-release? | 16:01 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:01 |
| harlowja_at_home | (periodic jobs don't seem to show anything is) | 16:01 |
| gcb | nothing from Nova | 16:01 |
| bknudson | haven't seen any issues in keystone | 16:01 |
| johnsom | Nothing from Octavia | 16:01 |
| rloo | ironic is cool | 16:01 |
| harlowja_at_home | sweet | 16:01 |
| electrocucaracha | neutron only have a proposal, the rest is fine | 16:02 |
| sileht | we got a small issue in telemetryu due to oslo.db | 16:02 |
| harlowja_at_home | uh ohs | 16:02 |
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| rpodolyaka | sileht: yeah, sorry about that - totally missed it when reviewing the original patch :( | 16:02 |
| sileht | we got the oslo.db fix merge this morning | 16:02 |
| harlowja_at_home | sileht, is that getting resolves? | 16:02 |
| harlowja_at_home | k | 16:02 |
| harlowja_at_home | *resolved | 16:03 |
| sileht | rpodolyaka, don't worry like testing just released stuff :) | 16:03 |
| sileht | like/we like | 16:03 |
| rpodolyaka | heh | 16:03 |
| harlowja_at_home | if anyone is intersted from the glance side of the world btw | 16:04 |
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| harlowja_at_home | i gotta figure out why http://status.openstack.org/openstack-health/#/job/periodic-glance-py35-with-oslo-master doesn't show up on the periodic job list | 16:04 |
| harlowja_at_home | if anyone else is interested let me know :) | 16:04 |
| harlowja_at_home | #topic Releases for Ocata | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Releases for Ocata (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:05 | |
| harlowja_at_home | so sileht rpodolyaka i'm assuming an oslo.db release will be needed | 16:05 |
| harlowja_at_home | anyone else need anything specific? | 16:05 |
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| sileht | harlowja_at_home, yep (for oslo.db release) | 16:05 |
| rpodolyaka | harlowja_at_home: yeah, I think we could cut a patch release | 16:05 |
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| harlowja_at_home | cool | 16:06 |
| dims | o/ | 16:06 |
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| gcb | harlowja_at_home, i think I can try to figure out the glance period task issue later | 16:06 |
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| harlowja_at_home | gcb, if u are intersted, something is weird there | 16:06 |
| harlowja_at_home | (it should be running daily, but it isn't?) | 16:07 |
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| * harlowja_at_home has to ask the infra folks where that job went, ha | 16:07 | |
| * gcb gcb will begin a new adventure of period tasks :-) | 16:08 | |
| harlowja_at_home | :) | 16:08 |
| harlowja_at_home | find the missing job adventure :) | 16:08 |
| tovin07 | lol | 16:08 |
| gcb | yeah | 16:08 |
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| harlowja_at_home | #topic PTG | 16:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:09 | |
| harlowja_at_home | anyone else decided if they are going yet? | 16:10 |
| johnsom | I will be attending | 16:10 |
| harlowja_at_home | dims, are u by any chance going? | 16:10 |
| rloo | I will be going, but not sure about attending oslo-related sessions :) | 16:10 |
| dims | yes, got an ok | 16:10 |
| * harlowja_at_home is wondering if i can find a person to watch over the oslo sessions so that i can jump on my families ski vacation :-P | 16:11 | |
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| harlowja_at_home | dims, u want to do that? wink wink | 16:11 |
| harlowja_at_home | (or any oslo interactions, general things like that) | 16:11 |
| dims | harlowja_at_home : i can take care of some not all | 16:11 |
| harlowja_at_home | k | 16:11 |
| dims | need to cover keystone and nova | 16:11 |
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| gcb | I will be there | 16:12 |
| harlowja_at_home | gcb, cool cool, okie so we'll have a few people representing oslo, good good | 16:12 |
| kgiusti | me also | 16:12 |
| sileht | I will not | 16:13 |
| harlowja_at_home | sileht, will jd? (if u know) | 16:13 |
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| gcb | what's the stuff we will do for oslo in the PTG ? | 16:14 |
| sileht | harlowja_at_home, I'm not sure, but I think it will not too | 16:14 |
| harlowja_at_home | sileht, kk | 16:14 |
| harlowja_at_home | gcb, that is a good question :) | 16:14 |
| harlowja_at_home | i'm still figuring that out myself :) | 16:14 |
| harlowja_at_home | find the what do we do at PTG adventure :-P | 16:14 |
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| harlowja_at_home | #action harlowja_at_home investigate that to a degree for next week :) | 16:15 |
| gcb | need deliver presentations or just work sessions ? | 16:15 |
| gcb | cool | 16:15 |
| harlowja_at_home | gcb, afaik its just work sessions | 16:15 |
| harlowja_at_home | no presentations at the PTG (from what i understand) | 16:16 |
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| harlowja_at_home | but i'll see what i can find out | 16:16 |
| gcb | got it :-) | 16:16 |
| johnsom | Yeah, that is my understanding as well. PTG is like a large mid-cycle meet up | 16:16 |
| johnsom | At least that is how I am thinking of it | 16:16 |
| harlowja_at_home | right | 16:17 |
| amrith | dims, aren't the nova and keystone sessions on different days than oslo? | 16:17 |
| amrith | I thought oslo was early in the week, nova and keystone later in the week. no? | 16:17 |
| * harlowja_at_home need to look all this stuff up | 16:17 | |
| amrith | dims, confirmed https://www.openstack.org/ptg/ | 16:18 |
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| harlowja_at_home | oh nice, a calendar | 16:18 |
| amrith | oslo, monday and tuesday. nova and keystone wednesday to friday | 16:18 |
| dims | amrith : either way clashes with other stuff :) | 16:18 |
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| amrith | harlowja_at_home, I'd like to attend, waiting for travel confirmation. | 16:18 |
| harlowja_at_home | amrith, cool, u can deliver yourself over signed RPC | 16:19 |
| harlowja_at_home | :) | 16:19 |
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| amrith | harlowja_at_home, we decided to dump signing and just encrypt. so I'll deliver an unintelligible series of packets to you and not tell you what the key is. | 16:20 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:20 |
| harlowja_at_home | sounds perfect | 16:20 |
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| amrith | see updated spec. | 16:20 |
| harlowja_at_home | like white noise to put me to sleep | 16:20 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:20 |
| gcb | amrith, do you still need confirmation ? I think you can decide yourself :-P | 16:20 |
| amrith | gcb, this time I need confirmation. unfortunately. | 16:21 |
| harlowja_at_home | #topic Reviews needing review | 16:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reviews needing review (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:21 | |
| harlowja_at_home | any reviews people want to bring up (specs, code, other?) | 16:21 |
| harlowja_at_home | bring your reviews, any reviews, ha | 16:22 |
| tovin07 | yo, harlowja_at_home | 16:22 |
| harlowja_at_home | yo yo | 16:22 |
| tovin07 | Last time I listened to you and ask mailing list to find boris-42 | 16:22 |
| tovin07 | hmmm | 16:22 |
| tovin07 | no one answer yet | 16:22 |
| tovin07 | :( | 16:23 |
| harlowja_at_home | ah yes, let me find him | 16:23 |
| harlowja_at_home | boris-42, where are u ^ | 16:23 |
| tovin07 | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-November/108113.html | 16:23 |
| harlowja_at_home | boris-42, ^ | 16:23 |
| harlowja_at_home | boris-42, come in boris, over | 16:23 |
| harlowja_at_home | i'll work on finding him | 16:24 |
| tovin07 | seems no luck :v | 16:24 |
| harlowja_at_home | tovin07, he might still be asleep, i'll find him in a few | 16:24 |
| harlowja_at_home | thanks for reminding | 16:24 |
| harlowja_at_home | oh, btw a review i'd like to merge | 16:25 |
| harlowja_at_home | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/229194/ | 16:25 |
| tovin07 | instead of waiting him (too too long…) I have a draft, very short draft for that | 16:25 |
| harlowja_at_home | tovin07, cool | 16:25 |
| tovin07 | DinaBelova: can you review this one | 16:25 |
| tovin07 | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/osprofiler/+spec/osprofiler-overhead-control | 16:25 |
| DinaBelova | ack | 16:25 |
| tovin07 | thanks :D | 16:26 |
| harlowja_at_home | #topic Open discussion | 16:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 16:27 | |
| harlowja_at_home | anything else on peoples minds? | 16:27 |
| harlowja_at_home | besides santa claus | 16:27 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:27 |
| gcb | I added release notes management for almost oslo libs two weeks ago, so please make sure change with proper release note if need when you're reviewing. | 16:28 |
| harlowja_at_home | thx, will try to remember to ask for those | 16:28 |
| gcb | just a remind :-) | 16:28 |
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| harlowja_at_home | alright, assuming everyone is good to go :) | 16:30 |
| harlowja_at_home | btw, prob will cancel the meeting after the next one | 16:30 |
| harlowja_at_home | since i'm assuming most people won't be around then | 16:30 |
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| electrocucaracha | is because Santa is comming? | 16:30 |
| harlowja_at_home | yup | 16:31 |
| electrocucaracha | +1 | 16:31 |
| harlowja_at_home | santa deliver everyone lots of oslo presents | 16:31 |
| harlowja_at_home | ha | 16:31 |
| amrith | he got me a lump of coal | 16:31 |
| harlowja_at_home | that could be pretty valueable nowadays | 16:32 |
| harlowja_at_home | especially if u turn it into oil | 16:32 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:32 |
| amrith | clean coal | 16:32 |
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| harlowja_at_home | maybe this time he'll get u some oil sands | 16:32 |
| harlowja_at_home | lol | 16:32 |
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| gcb | ha, I will continue work when you have a happy holidays :( | 16:33 |
| harlowja_at_home | :( | 16:33 |
| gcb | but we have lunar spring festival | 16:34 |
| gcb | :-) | 16:34 |
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| harlowja_at_home | neats, when is that? | 16:34 |
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| tovin07 | I have lunar spring festival too | 16:35 |
| harlowja_at_home | neats | 16:35 |
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| tovin07 | by the end of Jan and begin of Feb | 16:36 |
| harlowja_at_home | k | 16:36 |
| gcb | different day in different year, it's January 28 this year | 16:36 |
| tovin07 | it’s about 2 week, gcb | 16:36 |
| tovin07 | gcb, yup | 16:36 |
| tovin07 | *weeks | 16:37 |
| harlowja_at_home | year of the rooster i guess | 16:37 |
| tovin07 | harlowja_at_home: yup | 16:37 |
| harlowja_at_home | cool | 16:37 |
| harlowja_at_home | okie dokie, guess we can continue festival chat in #openstack-oslo :) | 16:38 |
| harlowja_at_home | (if people want to, ha) | 16:38 |
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| harlowja_at_home | thanks for showing up everyone (and we kept the meeting pretty short to!) | 16:39 |
| tovin07 | +1 | 16:39 |
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| harlowja_at_home | #endmeeting | 16:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:40 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Dec 5 16:40:01 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:40 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2016/oslo.2016-12-05-16.00.html | 16:40 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2016/oslo.2016-12-05-16.00.txt | 16:40 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2016/oslo.2016-12-05-16.00.log.html | 16:40 |
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| dbite | Hello | 18:02 |
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| dave-mccowan | #startmeeting barbican | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Dec 5 20:00:25 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dave-mccowan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:00 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic roll call | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
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| dave-mccowan | \o/ | 20:01 |
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| * woodster_ woodster lurks :) | 20:01 | |
| arunkant | o/ | 20:01 |
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| *** tonanhngo has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 20:02 | |
| * dave-mccowan waves to arunkant woodster_ | 20:02 | |
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| dave-mccowan | small group today. | 20:03 |
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| dave-mccowan | the agenda is in the usual spot: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican | 20:04 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic Ocata work items | 20:05 |
| dave-mccowan | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-tracker-ocata | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ocata work items (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:05 | |
| dave-mccowan | next week is Milestone 2 | 20:05 |
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| dave-mccowan | doesn't look like we have any updates today on that | 20:05 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic tempest testing | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "tempest testing (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:06 | |
| dave-mccowan | we have a new repo to add Tempest tests | 20:06 |
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| dave-mccowan | Marc and Daniel have started a new repo (openstack/barbican-tempest-pluin) | 20:07 |
| dave-mccowan | there's an etherpad to co-ordinate work items for anyone who wants to help add tests: | 20:08 |
| dave-mccowan | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican_tempest_plugin | 20:08 |
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| dave-mccowan | #topic code review requests | 20:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "code review requests (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:08 | |
| dave-mccowan | kaitlin has asked for help reviewing two patches | 20:08 |
| dave-mccowan | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/397338 | 20:09 |
| * redrobot_mobile is kinda here | 20:09 | |
| dave-mccowan | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/400370 | 20:09 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic any other business | 20:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "any other business (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:09 | |
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| alee | o/ | 20:10 |
| dave-mccowan | hi redrobot_mobile alee. small group today. | 20:10 |
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| dave-mccowan | there are some links in the agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican | 20:10 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, did I miss the part where we discussed the new meeting time? | 20:10 |
| dave-mccowan | alee voting is still open. i was planning to change the time starting in January to give folks a chance to prepare. | 20:11 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, ok | 20:11 |
| dave-mccowan | redrobot_mobile have you voted on a new meeting time? i'd like to make it later to include some new contributors in europe. | 20:11 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, can't stay long today - gotta go get kids | 20:11 |
| redrobot_mobile | Are we changing the meeting permanently or adding a second time to alternate? | 20:12 |
| alee | redrobot_mobile, changing permanently I think | 20:12 |
| dave-mccowan | if we can find one time that works for everyone (US and Europe) I'd like to move permanently. | 20:12 |
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| dave-mccowan | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-irc-meeting-time | 20:13 |
| dave-mccowan | alee do you have an update on your signing as service spec? | 20:14 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, no ;\ | 20:14 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, do we have adeadline? | 20:15 |
| dave-mccowan | alee only if we're shoot to implement in Ocata. Next week is milestone 2, which is a reasonable spec freeze. | 20:15 |
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| alee | dave-mccowan, I'm pretty sure we're not going to implement in Ocata. | 20:16 |
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| alee | dave-mccowan, what would be nice would be to get the spec down in time for discussions at the PTG | 20:17 |
| dave-mccowan | alee +1 | 20:17 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic PTG | 20:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTG (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:17 | |
| dave-mccowan | i'll start an etherpad to start collecting attendance and agenda items for the PTG | 20:17 |
| dave-mccowan | other than me, I haven't heard from anyone who is committed to attend so far. | 20:18 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, I'm likely to be there too. | 20:19 |
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| diazjf | o/ | 20:20 |
| dave-mccowan | let me know if travel for the PTG is too expensive. if it's a group problem, we can vote on having a standalone midcycle instead. (but PTG would be better to help with cross-project discussions) | 20:20 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, at least I'm scheduled to be, but if its just the two of us, then I'm not sure it makes sense to go down | 20:20 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, so yeah - getting a sense on who is going to be there is probably a good idea | 20:20 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, gotta go .. | 20:21 |
| dave-mccowan | that's all i have for today. does anyone else have anything to bring up? | 20:22 |
| dave-mccowan | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ptg-barbican-pike | 20:22 |
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| dave-mccowan | thanks everyone. see ya! | 20:23 |
| dave-mccowan | #endmeeting | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:23 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Dec 5 20:23:45 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:23 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2016/barbican.2016-12-05-20.00.html | 20:23 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2016/barbican.2016-12-05-20.00.txt | 20:23 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2016/barbican.2016-12-05-20.00.log.html | 20:23 |
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| tonyb | #startmeeting stable | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Dec 5 21:01:12 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tonyb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: stable)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'stable' | 21:01 |
| tonyb | #topic rollcall | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: stable)" | 21:01 | |
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| tonyb | Anyone? Anyone? | 21:01 |
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| Rockyg | o/ | 21:01 |
| pchadwick | o/ | 21:01 |
| tonyb | *sigh* and of course I'm in the wrong channel | 21:02 |
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| tonyb | I meant to start the stable meeting not the product WG meeting | 21:02 |
| CarolBarrett | Thanks tonyb - I was confused. | 21:02 |
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| tonyb | #endmeeting | 21:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Dec 5 21:02:26 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/stable/2016/stable.2016-12-05-21.01.html | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/stable/2016/stable.2016-12-05-21.01.txt | 21:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/stable/2016/stable.2016-12-05-21.01.log.html | 21:02 |
| tonyb | CarolBarrett: All yours | 21:02 |
| CarolBarrett | #startmeeting product working group | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Dec 5 21:02:49 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is CarolBarrett. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: product working group)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'product_working_group' | 21:02 |
| Rockyg | o/ | 21:02 |
| kgerald | o/ | 21:03 |
| shamail | Hi everyone! | 21:03 |
| kencjohnston | o/ | 21:03 |
| pchadwick | o/ | 21:03 |
| pchadwick | Hello all | 21:03 |
| piet | o/ | 21:03 |
| CarolBarrett | Hi Everyone! | 21:03 |
| Rockyg | hey! | 21:03 |
| mrhillsman | o/ | 21:03 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | hi. I am on gold members calls. so my participation will be sporadic | 21:03 |
| piet | Can someone post the link to the agenda? | 21:03 |
| CarolBarrett | arkady_kanevsky: thanks for the headsup | 21:03 |
| CarolBarrett | Here's a link to the agenda | 21:04 |
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| CarolBarrett | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/product-team#December_5.2C_2016_Product_Team_Meeting_Agenda | 21:04 |
| CarolBarrett | Let's get going | 21:04 |
| CarolBarrett | #topic Midcycle Planning | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Midcycle Planning (Meeting topic: product working group)" | 21:05 | |
| CarolBarrett | As many may have seen, the Ops have set their next midcycle for Milan in March (13-14). | 21:05 |
| shamail | CarolBarrett: Did we decide on location/timeframe? | 21:05 |
| shamail | nm :) | 21:05 |
| CarolBarrett | shamail: That's the discussion :) | 21:06 |
| CarolBarrett | Do we want to have a midcycle? | 21:06 |
| kencjohnston | yes | 21:06 |
| CarolBarrett | Do we want to co-locate with Ops? | 21:06 |
| kencjohnston | yes :) | 21:06 |
| pchadwick | It could be tough to get travel approval ;) | 21:06 |
| kencjohnston | I think having a midcycle this cycle, of all cycles, is critical | 21:06 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: why is that? | 21:07 |
| shamail | I wouldn’t mind co-locating although it will be tough for me (my company conference is March 20-24) | 21:07 |
| kencjohnston | Retooling/reconfiguring for the Forum | 21:07 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: agree | 21:07 |
| kencjohnston | plus our new role in the UC as the central point for other UC teams | 21:07 |
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| CarolBarrett | +1 | 21:08 |
| shamail | kencjohnston: +1 | 21:08 |
| shamail | plus its Milan | 21:08 |
| CarolBarrett | +1 | 21:08 |
| kencjohnston | For me personally, the way I get to go to the PWG Midcycle at all is if it is a "two-fer" | 21:08 |
| kgerald | I might be able to go to Milan. | 21:08 |
| shamail | kencjohnston: I agree, stand-alone is harder unless it is somewhere really affordable | 21:08 |
| kencjohnston | Even if it is just domestic travel, it's hard to justify for a one or two day mid-cycle | 21:08 |
| kencjohnston | shamail: +1 | 21:08 |
| CarolBarrett | We might also be able to intercept other midcycles (like enterprise, scientific computing) that will be in Europe or even co-located with Ops | 21:09 |
| pchadwick | If there were more co-located agree with kencjohnston that it would make it easier. | 21:09 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: +1 | 21:09 |
| shamail | I prefer to co-locate especially for this midcycle since, as kencjohnston mentioned, the Forum is coming in Boston and this next ops midcycle would be the source of some of the first sessions | 21:09 |
| kencjohnston | We struggled with this question the last time when Ops was in Manchester, how did we feel that worked out? | 21:10 |
| shamail | we need to ensure that transition of feedback from ops to Forum happens smoothly and we help where we can | 21:10 |
| shamail | Sorry kencjohnston, which question? | 21:10 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: good question. I think it worked well - we connected with a new segment - Scientific folks - and their requirements. | 21:10 |
| kencjohnston | shamail: Should we co-locate with ops even when they are outside of the US? | 21:11 |
| shamail | Ah, got it | 21:11 |
| CarolBarrett | Does anyone want to propose an alternative to co-locating with Ops? | 21:11 |
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| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: I agree, I thought it went well, and we still had good PWG attendance. | 21:11 |
| shamail | I think we should, we did connect with Scientific WG… and this next Ops meetup.. we should be there to help ensure each “interesting” topic is documented in a way to help it make its best case for a productive Forum session (topic, decisions, key attendees, any user stories before Forum, etc) | 21:12 |
| kgerald | kencjohnston: are you saying we should only have PWG meetings in US? | 21:12 |
| kencjohnston | kgerald: Absolutely not. | 21:12 |
| Leong | o/ | 21:12 |
| kgerald | kencjohnston: okay. sorry, then I got the question wrong | 21:12 |
| kencjohnston | kgerald: Just that everytime we talk about having a mid-cycle out of the US we have had this same discussion. And we've decided to hold teh mid-cycle out of the US once before. | 21:12 |
| kencjohnston | kgerald: So we can use that as a proof point in one direction or the other. | 21:13 |
| kencjohnston | kgerald: I see it as a proof point that we should hold mid-cycles aligned with ops, even when they are outside of the US. | 21:13 |
| kencjohnston | Soudns like others agree. | 21:13 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: +1 | 21:14 |
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| pchadwick | +1 | 21:14 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 21:15 |
| Leong | +1 on align with ops mid cycle | 21:15 |
| CarolBarrett | If no one has an alternative to propose, then I'd like to close on this with the agreement that we co-locate with Ops; targeting March 15-16 in or around Milan | 21:15 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: ++ | 21:15 |
| Leong | +1 | 21:15 |
| CarolBarrett | #agree We will col-locate our Ocata midcycle with Ops on March 15-16 in (or around) Milan | 21:15 |
| CarolBarrett | Next question - Do any of the PWG member companies have offices in Milan that can host us? | 21:16 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: I knew that was coming... | 21:16 |
| CarolBarrett | :) | 21:16 |
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| kencjohnston | Rackspace's nearest is in Geneva, and not a very large office. | 21:16 |
| CarolBarrett | It doesn't look like Intel has anything | 21:16 |
| shamail | There is an IBM Client Center there, I can try asking about space | 21:17 |
| Rockyg | I'll have to check Huawei, but that could be tough for me. | 21:17 |
| Leong | The Milan ops seems to be a 'renting' space, alternative is to get members to sponsor? | 21:17 |
| CarolBarrett | Shamail: That would be good! Thanks | 21:17 |
| CarolBarrett | Rocky: Would appreciate if you could check | 21:18 |
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| CarolBarrett | Leong: Renting is an option, we can check with Ops to get more info... | 21:18 |
| Leong | Though I still prefer member local office :) | 21:19 |
| Rockyg | I'll look. Have to bridge some silos, but if they're the right ones, it might be possible | 21:19 |
| CarolBarrett | Leong: Would you be willing to follow-up on that? | 21:19 |
| pchadwick | Our website claims we (SUSE) has an office there but I am doubtful. | 21:19 |
| Leong | Ok . I will. | 21:19 |
| CarolBarrett | pchadwick: Interesting - pls let us know what you find. | 21:19 |
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| CarolBarrett | #action Leong Check with Ops on their rental plans for midcycle | 21:19 |
| CarolBarrett | OK - let's leave this discussion here and pick it up again in our meeting next week to see what folks have found out | 21:20 |
| CarolBarrett | #action Carol add Midcycle planning to 12/12 team meeting | 21:20 |
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| CarolBarrett | Moving on.... | 21:20 |
| CarolBarrett | #topic Using Persona's in User Stories | 21:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Using Persona's in User Stories (Meeting topic: product working group)" | 21:20 | |
| piet | Questions for me? | 21:21 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: piet Here is my proposal. | 21:21 |
| CarolBarrett | I know we have the persona's defined and have discussed adding them. I think there are some persona gaps that we need to get defined to support our user stories | 21:21 |
| kencjohnston | We've already added the links to the personas to the template, so going forward we should expect all new stories use them | 21:22 |
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| kgerald | #info good idea. I am drafting a usage example for the capacity management where I will introduce a new persona that I plan to also propose to UX team | 21:22 |
| CarolBarrett | think it was bare metal that referenced a type of user that doesn't have a persona defined for it | 21:22 |
| kencjohnston | We should ask user story owners to submit patches adding references to the Personas, and filling in gaps if need be | 21:22 |
| kencjohnston | s/user story owners/existing user story owners | 21:22 |
| CarolBarrett | kgerald: I like that approach. | 21:22 |
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| kencjohnston | TL;DR all user stories should start using the UX Personas. | 21:23 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: I think that's good. With the path to filling gaps being they propose a new persona to the UX team... | 21:23 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: correct | 21:23 |
| Rockyg | I'd love to see a matrix of personae to user stories and/or tasks | 21:23 |
| CarolBarrett | Piet: Is there a link you can share? | 21:23 |
| kencjohnston | I imagine we are close to 90% covered on the user stories we have today | 21:23 |
| piet | Keep mind that the personas are bring updated as we speak | 21:23 |
| Rockyg | Or a glossary of jobs that map to personae | 21:24 |
| piet | lemme get the link | 21:24 |
| piet | Also, keep in mind that there is actually a matrix of personas and model companies | 21:24 |
| Rockyg | kewl | 21:25 |
| CarolBarrett | We need to add this to our work flow documentation | 21:25 |
| piet | The rationale is that personas change slightly or disappear based on the model company, ie service provider v service consumer | 21:25 |
| Rockyg | +1 | 21:25 |
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| CarolBarrett | Shamail: Would this fall under the work you're doing to simplify work flow? | 21:26 |
| piet | Yeah, you may also want to add model companies | 21:26 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: What is the work-flow impact? | 21:26 |
| piet | http://docs.openstack.org/contributor-guide/ux-ui-guidelines/ux-personas.html | 21:26 |
| Rockyg | piet, +1 on model compnies | 21:26 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: Now that it is part of the template we reviewers can ensure UX Personas are properly used in new stories. | 21:26 |
| CarolBarrett | #link http://docs.openstack.org/contributor-guide/ux-ui-guidelines/ux-personas.html | 21:27 |
| piet | Rockyg Thank Jeff Calcaterra for the model companies. He needs a raise. | 21:27 |
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| CarolBarrett | :) | 21:27 |
| * shamail will let Jeff know you said that and that he shouold include this in his annual review | 21:27 | |
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| Rockyg | ++ | 21:27 |
| piet | Updated build http://docs-draft.openstack.org/39/404439/6/check/gate-openstack-manuals-tox-doc-publish-checkbuild/301308f/publish-docs/contributor-guide/ux-ui-guidelines/ux-personas.html | 21:28 |
| CarolBarrett | So we agree we will use personas and if one doesn't exist the user story team has the responsibility to propose new one(s) - anything else on this topic? | 21:28 |
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| piet | Eventually we will have a separate page for each model company | 21:29 |
| CarolBarrett | #agree We will use personas in User Stories and if one doesn't exist the user story team has the responsibility to propose new one(s) | 21:29 |
| piet | CarolBarrett We should also be using model companies | 21:29 |
| shamail | Awesome | 21:29 |
| pchadwick | @piet - How exhaustive is the model company list supposed to be? | 21:29 |
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| piet | Four companies, but two have a relationship | 21:30 |
| CarolBarrett | where is the list of model companies | 21:30 |
| shamail | CarolBarrett: We’ll document it in the workflow as a potential output during the user story acceptance phase | 21:30 |
| pchadwick | http://docs-draft.openstack.org/39/404439/6/check/gate-openstack-manuals-tox-doc-publish-checkbuild/301308f/publish-docs/contributor-guide/ux-ui-guidelines/ux-personas/model-companies.html | 21:30 |
| piet | Enterprise, service provider, service consumer and academic | 21:30 |
| shamail | #link http://docs.openstack.org/contributor-guide/ux-ui-guidelines/ux-personas/model-companies.html#model-companies | 21:30 |
| piet | Vary by distros, security needs, personas, etc | 21:30 |
| piet | We are in the process of adding more content and pretty pictures for the model companies | 21:31 |
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| piet | I'd like to work on devops, but need your help adding content - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osux-persona-devops | 21:31 |
| pchadwick | We might want to discuss elsewhere, but I have universities and service providers that are definitely not using roll your own. | 21:31 |
| CarolBarrett | Got it - so we want user story writers to use both Model Company and Personas. | 21:32 |
| shamail | And Companies in this case represent market segments | 21:32 |
| piet | pchadwick Yep - it's tough trying to keep the model company list small; otherwise we could have a gazzilion | 21:32 |
| mrhillsman | whew, step away for a few moments and have to read a lot to catch up hehe | 21:33 |
| Rockyg | shamail, I think it's fuzzier than than market segments | 21:33 |
| shamail | so when we build a user story and we think of which markets it impacts which will in turn influence which companies we put in the story… the company then has associated roles and that should influence persona selection | 21:33 |
| piet | pchadwick However, would like feedback on whether we need to add more companies | 21:33 |
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| pchadwick | @piet - understood. | 21:33 |
| Rockyg | piet, I think we need synonym companies listed under the models | 21:34 |
| pchadwick | @piet - My concern is that when two of the companies end up doing roll your own, and the one uses a distro + professional services that doesn't line up with our experience. | 21:34 |
| piet | For exmaple, domain admin may mean different things to a service provider or a service consumer. Or even an enterprise | 21:34 |
| shamail | Rockyg: when I am looking at the model companies, they all seem to focus on a particular segment (large enterprise, service provider, research) except for the customer company (Moi) | 21:34 |
| piet | pchadwick How so? | 21:34 |
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| kgerald | the persona I am working on is NOC engineer working for a Telco (i.e. I will also propose a new model company) | 21:34 |
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| Rockyg | Yeah. That customer one is the grab bag of "other" | 21:35 |
| pchadwick | @piet - all of my customers are using a distro (otherwise they aren't customers). | 21:35 |
| piet | kgerald Can you create either an etherpad or Google doc so I can participate | 21:35 |
| kencjohnston | kgerald: +1, I think it is easy to get lost in the abstract, let's frame these requests for additions based on what we need for user stories | 21:35 |
| pchadwick | Some of them are universities or service providers. | 21:35 |
| piet | pchadwick That;s exactly the feedback I need from all of you | 21:36 |
| kgerald | and I believe a Telco model company would be good to looking into all the NFV use cases | 21:36 |
| pchadwick | some of them used professional services to do the installation but now run with internal staff only. | 21:36 |
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| piet | You are also welcome to submit bugs to the persona doc | 21:36 |
| CarolBarrett | pchadwick: can't that level of detail be in the user story? | 21:36 |
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| kgerald | piet: yes, first want to get some internal feedback and then I'll setup the etherpad | 21:37 |
| kencjohnston | piet: +1 | 21:37 |
| pchadwick | Right now, I couldn't map any of my customers to the one of the models. | 21:37 |
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| pchadwick | /models/model companies/ | 21:37 |
| piet | pchadwick Which persona did you want to work on? | 21:37 |
| CarolBarrett | pchadwick: that's a problem | 21:38 |
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| pchadwick | @piet - the personas are pretty accurate from my experience. | 21:38 |
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| shamail | The companies were created to give some depth to the personas since a persona could have different tasks associated with it in companies of different sizes and OpenStack experience. | 21:38 |
| piet | pchadwick Sweet! | 21:38 |
| Leong | Pchadwick: that means new type of persona need to be created? | 21:38 |
| piet | pchadwick Baremetal Operations? | 21:39 |
| kgerald | do we need to have model companies for all personas, or just in those cases where similar personas have different tasks in different companies? | 21:39 |
| pchadwick | @piet - that is a whole different can of worms. | 21:39 |
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| piet | piet stunned that CarolBarrett has pulled-in the conversation | 21:39 |
| pchadwick | Bare metal = server, storage and network. | 21:40 |
| CarolBarrett | does the adoption model need to be part of the Model Company profile? | 21:40 |
| piet | "hasn't" pulled-in | 21:40 |
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| kencjohnston | piet: +1, can we agree that we should adopt personas and model companies? | 21:40 |
| pchadwick | @Carolbarret - we could just map to the deployment models we talk about in the ebook | 21:40 |
| shamail | Adoption model influences tasks/responsibilities so I think it does | 21:40 |
| CarolBarrett | piet: :) | 21:40 |
| piet | CarolBarrett Are you thinking about breaking them up? | 21:40 |
| kencjohnston | and like all things openstack if they aren't to our liking then we go contribut eto changing them? | 21:40 |
| shamail | kencjohnston: +1, we can document where they “break” if/when we run into the situations | 21:41 |
| Rockyg | So, service provider -- does it cover service providers like Workday? SAAS as opposed to cloud provider... | 21:41 |
| piet | kencjohnston +1 - I worry that people allow me to drive something that is a community effort | 21:41 |
| CarolBarrett | piet: it just seems like there are lots of different models in the market - so we may need a couple of Large Enterprise model company definitions to cover the gambit | 21:41 |
| pchadwick | @shamail, @kencjohnston +1 | 21:41 |
| shamail | lol piet | 21:41 |
| piet | CarolBarrett Makes sense | 21:41 |
| Rockyg | CarolBarrett, ++ | 21:42 |
| kencjohnston | piet: ++, and contributing to changing them does not happen by IRC'ing with piet :) | 21:42 |
| CarolBarrett | Ok - similar to how we resolved the use of persona's, if a user story needs add'l model company definitions, it's up to them to propose them. | 21:42 |
| kgerald | is there any stats from OpenStack, e.g, from Summits which types of companies join OpenStack events -> those are the companies we need to model | 21:42 |
| kgerald | i guess someone has already discussed about such company categories. can we use such info? | 21:43 |
| CarolBarrett | #agree User Story writers are responsible for using Model Companies and as needed, propose additions to the model company set to express the full breadth of the user story | 21:43 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: +! | 21:43 |
| piet | kgerald When you feel comfortable adding content - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osux-persona-nocengineer | 21:44 |
| piet | kgerald Includes formatting and headings | 21:45 |
| shamail | Can of worms: Did we ever decide if each user story submission will contain only a single user story or could we actually have the same concept described multiple times with differing personas/companies? Is each one a user story or are they all one? | 21:45 |
| kgerald | piet: thanks for the preparation work | 21:45 |
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| CarolBarrett | Ok - I think the last thing on this topic is setting a due date for User Stories to be updated....by the end of this year OK? | 21:45 |
| piet | All - please help with devops https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osux-persona-devops | 21:45 |
| kgerald | shamail: i'd say it is the same user story. the different comapnies may be part of the usage examples | 21:46 |
| shamail | kgerald: Thanks, sounds reasonable. | 21:46 |
| piet | I'm digging the support from PWG on this. Epic! | 21:47 |
| CarolBarrett | piet: +1 | 21:47 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 21:47 |
| CarolBarrett | Is end of the year OK for updating user stories to personas and model companies? | 21:47 |
| kgerald | yes | 21:47 |
| shamail | CarolBarrett: +1 | 21:47 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: updated... yes | 21:48 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: Merged... seems to be more difficult these days. | 21:48 |
| pchadwick | sound reasonable. | 21:48 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: I'll get my patches up this week. | 21:48 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: do you think merged is the right milestone to measure? | 21:48 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: Yeah, it is the one that matters. | 21:49 |
| shamail | kencjohnston: +1 | 21:49 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: I'm pointing out that we'll have to merge a bunch of changes over a short amount of time, during the holidays | 21:49 |
| kencjohnston | something we haven't been great at in the past. | 21:49 |
| kencjohnston | Let's ask everyone to get patches up by end of year. And then we as a team need to track the merging of those outstanding patches. | 21:49 |
| Rockyg | So, be prepared to do lots of reviwing, folks | 21:49 |
| kencjohnston | Rockyg: +1 | 21:50 |
| Leong | Ok. | 21:50 |
| CarolBarrett | kencjohnston: I get that...which will be a challenge. But I think it's the right milestone. So maybe the due date for merging them is to have that complete before our 1st meeting in 2017 (1/9) | 21:50 |
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| Rockyg | and during my holiday, no less | 21:50 |
| kencjohnston | CarolBarrett: +1 | 21:50 |
| CarolBarrett | #agree User story owners to submit patches for personas and model companies by end of year and be merged ahead of our 1/9/17 team meeting | 21:51 |
| Leong | We should just patch Persona. No changes to the story itself? | 21:51 |
| kencjohnston | Leong: +1 for patch scope separation | 21:51 |
| CarolBarrett | #action Carol add User Story persona and model company update status to 1/9/17 team meeting | 21:51 |
| CarolBarrett | We're running short on time and I'd like to skip to an topic for Opens | 21:52 |
| CarolBarrett | #topic Opens | 21:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Opens (Meeting topic: product working group)" | 21:52 | |
| piet | Just a quick note | 21:52 |
| CarolBarrett | shamail: Do you want to lead the heads-up on tomorrow's BoD meeting? | 21:52 |
| piet | Wanted to let you know early. | 21:53 |
| shamail | Sure | 21:53 |
| shamail | There is an OpenStack BoD meeting tomorrow from 7A-9A PT tomorrow | 21:53 |
| shamail | Agenda can be found at: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/6Dec2016BoardMeeting | 21:53 |
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| piet | So, I will no longer be with Intel at the end of the month | 21:53 |
| Rockyg | ouch. | 21:53 |
| shamail | In particular, there is a topic called “(08:00) OpenStack Futures - Mark, Toby, Imad, Allison” | 21:53 |
| shamail | Associated etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-strategic-review-board | 21:54 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | there is another one - Review and approval of the User Committee Proposal presented at the October and November Board Meetings | 21:54 |
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| shamail | This topic will cover items such as how PWG fits in and how the concept has worked so far to get important requirements into the community backlog | 21:54 |
| shamail | CarolBarrett and I will both be there, we wanted to raise awareness in case others wanted to dial in to listen to the conversation | 21:55 |
| kencjohnston | shamail: Interesting. I'll be on the call. | 21:55 |
| shamail | I’m glad the topic has been raised and, everyone agrees, that we will not have all answers tomorrow but the BoD will form what questions need to be answered | 21:55 |
| kgerald | piet: sorry to hear that | 21:55 |
| shamail | That’s all I had CarolBarrett, anything to add? | 21:55 |
| shamail | piet: Sorry to hear that, let’s talk this week. :[ | 21:56 |
| CarolBarrett | Shamail: Think that covers it - Thanks. If people can make the call that would be good. | 21:56 |
| piet | To be fair, it was unfair to have just Intel bear the cost associated with UX | 21:56 |
| CarolBarrett | Piet: You will be missed.... | 21:56 |
| CarolBarrett | piet: Can you share plans future plans for UX project in next week's meeting? | 21:57 |
| piet | Here's my proposal. We could talk about having the foundation create a UX position. Need your help with that...if you agree | 21:57 |
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| Rockyg | worth a shot | 21:58 |
| CarolBarrett | we've got 2 mins left.... | 21:58 |
| CarolBarrett | How do we want to move this topic forward? | 21:58 |
| kgerald | piet: definitely an important position | 21:58 |
| piet | Rockyg I thinks its more fair to the community | 21:58 |
| Rockyg | Oh, seems like Huawei might have an office in Milan. I'll talk to Anni | 21:59 |
| shamail | I think you should propose that piet | 21:59 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | SHould it on on foundation or should of 5 proposed User WG rep members own it? | 21:59 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | I am back | 21:59 |
| CarolBarrett | Piet: Do you want to propose that to the Foundation this week and we can follow-up in this meeting on the 12th? | 21:59 |
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| piet | shamail CarolBarrett Rockyg kencjohnston Leong Need your help proposing to the foundation | 21:59 |
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| piet | CarolBarrett Yep | 22:00 |
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| shamail | Sounds good piet | 22:00 |
| shamail | CarolBarrett: We are at time | 22:00 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | thanks for your great work piet. will miss you | 22:00 |
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| kgerald | bye | 22:00 |
| piet | I'll plan to support you until I land somewhere else | 22:01 |
| shamail | cya | 22:01 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky | bye | 22:01 |
| piet | Cheers | 22:01 |
| pchadwick | bye | 22:01 |
| CarolBarrett | #action Carol to add topic on UX team next steps to 12/12 meeting | 22:01 |
| CarolBarrett | Bye all | 22:01 |
| CarolBarrett | #endmeeting | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Dec 5 22:01:22 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2016/product_working_group.2016-12-05-21.02.html | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2016/product_working_group.2016-12-05-21.02.txt | 22:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2016/product_working_group.2016-12-05-21.02.log.html | 22:01 |
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| jeblair | howdy zuul folks | 22:01 |
| jlk | o/ | 22:01 |
| adam_g | ohey o/ | 22:01 |
| * clarkb wanders by | 22:02 | |
| pabelanger | o/ | 22:02 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting zuul | 22:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Dec 5 22:02:44 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zuul' | 22:02 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Zuul | 22:02 |
| rattboi | o/ | 22:03 |
| jhesketh | o/ | 22:03 |
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| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2016/zuul.2016-11-28-22.02.html | 22:03 |
| auggy | o/ | 22:03 |
| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 22:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:03 | |
| jeblair | jeblair work with Shuo_ to document roadmap location / process | 22:03 |
| jeblair | i just pushed this up | 22:03 |
| jamielennox | o/ | 22:03 |
| jeblair | #link roadmap: https://review.openstack.org/407213 | 22:04 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 22:04 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 22:04 |
| jeblair | i'll take the "work with Shuo_" part offline | 22:04 |
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| jeblair | i think that roadmap captures the direction we're heading | 22:04 |
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| jeblair | i don't want to do task management in README files or anything, but just having a list of "yeah these are things we know we're going to do" will be helpful i think | 22:05 |
| pabelanger | looks good | 22:05 |
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| jeblair | #topic Status updates (Nodepool Zookeeper work) | 22:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates (Nodepool Zookeeper work) (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:06 | |
| SpamapS | I think that's a fine way to manage an epic-epic story, which is basically what htis is. | 22:06 |
| jamielennox | yea, README is good for a really high level, can do task management elsewhere | 22:06 |
| jeblair | #undo | 22:07 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x7f63d9f80bd0> | 22:07 |
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| jeblair | cool | 22:07 |
| jeblair | i guess we're ready to move on :) | 22:07 |
| jeblair | #topic Status updates (Nodepool Zookeeper work) | 22:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates (Nodepool Zookeeper work) (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:07 | |
| SpamapS | (TIL there's a #undo) | 22:07 |
| fungi | (i use it all the time to fix my typos) | 22:08 |
| jeblair | i think we're hitting the last few things on the punch list for the nodepool builder | 22:08 |
| Shrews | yeah. bunch of bug fixes/improvements since last week. | 22:09 |
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| pabelanger | agree, think we are getting close | 22:10 |
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| jeblair | nb01.o.o has been mostly working, yeah? i think we lost a few builds this weekend due to a bug whose fix is in progress | 22:11 |
| jeblair | and we actually achieved image quorum pretty quickly -- like, within 1 day? | 22:11 |
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| pabelanger | yes, things have looked good on the upload front for sure | 22:12 |
| jeblair | is there anything outstanding we need to have in place before we switch infra production over to use it? | 22:12 |
| Shrews | pabelanger: have we tried disaster scenarios yet? | 22:12 |
| Shrews | jeblair: yes! ^^^ | 22:12 |
| Shrews | let's kill ZK | 22:13 |
| Shrews | see what happens | 22:13 |
| clarkb | might also be handy if we could write down a few of the manual debug and fixing steps for zk that have been used | 22:13 |
| pabelanger | we did see https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000809 over the weekend, I had to manually delete some data in zk to fix it | 22:13 |
| clarkb | since its relatively new to most of us | 22:13 |
| jeblair | clarkb: yes -- but any time we run a manual zk command it's a bug that we must fix | 22:14 |
| Shrews | pabelanger: that json thing might be fixed by the open review | 22:14 |
| fungi | yeah, if that hasn't found its way into our system-config docs, now would be the time | 22:14 |
| jeblair | fungi: i don't think that's right | 22:14 |
| pabelanger | Shrews: yes, we should land your patch and see if it happens again for sure | 22:14 |
| fungi | system-config shouldn't mention that nodepool is using zk to coordinate tasks? | 22:14 |
| SpamapS | I'd say if you find yourself having to dig around in ZK, that should definitely end up as a story. | 22:14 |
| jeblair | i think we should send out an email to the infra list letting folks know how to run zk shell and a bit of overview | 22:15 |
| clarkb | SpamapS: jeblair I agree, but chances are we will end up doing it at some point so we should tell people how | 22:15 |
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| clarkb | ya that works | 22:15 |
| clarkb | (then they can submit the resulting bug report) | 22:15 |
| pabelanger | SpamapS: 2000809 is the only time we've had to so far | 22:15 |
| jeblair | but we should not document zk shell commands in the same way that we don't document mysql currently | 22:15 |
| fungi | i guess it's too deep of an implementation detail for sysadmins to care about? do we not need to make sure the service is running et cetera et cetera? | 22:15 |
| jeblair | fungi: oh that's fine :) | 22:15 |
| jeblair | fungi: i just meant that we should not be writing: "if something goes wrong, here's the zk command to fix it" in system-config :) | 22:16 |
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| fungi | yeah, i'm less interested in knowing how to deep-dive zk internals. fro that there's its own documentation | 22:16 |
| fungi | zk presumably has plenty of documentation on how to interact with it should that become necessary | 22:16 |
| Shrews | https://review.openstack.org/406342 has a very hard to find (thanks jeblair!) bug fix that needs to land for the builder, fyi | 22:16 |
| fungi | though linking to the zk docs from system-config could be handy | 22:17 |
| jeblair | i just want to make sure we're all on the same page that zk is an internal implementation detail that we should all be aware of as developers of this thing, and operators should not really be aware of it beyond seeing it in 'ps' output | 22:17 |
| SpamapS | It should be noted that the interface between Zuul and Nodepool should be documented via inline docs for whoever owns it, so that it can be understood well by developers trying to fix those bugs. | 22:17 |
| jlk | hrm. | 22:17 |
| * SpamapS has not looked, maybe it is. | 22:17 | |
| fungi | are we expecting to configure it to listen on a particular socket/port, or does it use a standard iana assignment? | 22:18 |
| jlk | Well, ops should know 1) it's required, 2) how to ensure that its health is as-expected, 3) how to safely kick it should it not be healthy, 4) how to reach out to devs for more help if it's fallen over hard. | 22:18 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: it should be, once it exists (that's coming up later in agenda) | 22:18 |
| jeblair | jlk: ++ | 22:18 |
| fungi | what jlk describes is exactly what i would want too. yes | 22:18 |
| jlk | and maybe "where does it log, is it sensitive, should I keep them around" | 22:19 |
| SpamapS | ZK's client libs expect ZK on a particular port. | 22:19 |
| SpamapS | Dunno if it's been registered with IANA.. but seems likely to be. | 22:19 |
| jeblair | much of that of course should come from the zk docs, which we can link to from system-config | 22:19 |
| pabelanger | Shrews: as for disaster scenarios, I think our next steps are to do some ops things to our images. eg: manual deletes, builds, uploads etc. see what happens | 22:19 |
| jlk | "Where does it run" which leads to SpamapS's thing of "what port does it run" so that firewalls can be adjusted. | 22:20 |
| SpamapS | Right that's all in ZK's docs | 22:20 |
| jlk | cool | 22:20 |
| Shrews | pabelanger: ++ | 22:20 |
| SpamapS | what you want to put in nodepool/zuul's docs is "Where do I look to make sure zuul and nodepool are active in a particular ZK." | 22:20 |
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| SpamapS | Which can be as simple as "Nodepool reservations are stored under /nodepool in ZK. The contents are documented in code at nodepool/zk_interface.py" | 22:21 |
| pabelanger | another thing, do we want to try adding nb02.o.o too, see if things work as expected? | 22:21 |
| Shrews | pabelanger: but we definitely need to hard kill ZK several times, too (during uploads, during builds, etc) | 22:21 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair update nodepool system-config docs with zk info | 22:21 |
| pabelanger | Shrews: ++ | 22:21 |
| jeblair | #action pabelanger test zk disaster scenarios thi nodepool-builder | 22:21 |
| jeblair | #undo | 22:22 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x7f63d984a850> | 22:22 |
| jeblair | #action pabelanger test zk disaster scenarios with nodepool-builder | 22:22 |
| jeblair | any other production blockers? | 22:22 |
| Shrews | https://review.openstack.org/406342 | 22:22 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger suggested an nb02, do we want that? | 22:22 |
| Shrews | as mentioned | 22:22 |
| clarkb | if we are able to get through and entire build and upload cycle in less than a day I don't think it is necessary | 22:23 |
| clarkb | but may want to test it before we productionize it | 22:23 |
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| jeblair | #action jeblair merge https://review.openstack.org/406342 | 22:23 |
| Shrews | clarkb: agreed. i think we need the multiple node scenario before production | 22:24 |
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| pabelanger | Ya, a single builder is working very well right now. | 22:24 |
| clarkb | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/406411/8 is another change worth getting in to fix leaking hash files | 22:24 |
| jeblair | who wants to launch nb02? | 22:24 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair merge https://review.openstack.org/406411 | 22:24 |
| pabelanger | I mean, I can do nb02, but a good time for somebody to see how the donuts are made :) | 22:25 |
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| jeblair | #action pabelanger launch nb02 | 22:26 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: feel free to delegate :) | 22:26 |
| pabelanger | ack | 22:26 |
| Shrews | pabelanger: i'll volunteer, but only because I have NO idea how it's done | 22:26 |
| * Shrews imagines something-something-system-config | 22:26 | |
| pabelanger | ++ | 22:27 |
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| pabelanger | we can work through it | 22:27 |
| Shrews | cool | 22:27 |
| jeblair | maybe we can get those things done this week and switch nodepool.o.o over to the v3 branch and start using the zk images at the end of this week / early next? | 22:27 |
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| Shrews | depends on how disaster testing goes, tbh | 22:28 |
| jeblair | yeah, i'm assuming if it goes poorly we won't be in a rush to start using it :) | 22:29 |
| fungi | that sounds ideal if all goes as planned | 22:29 |
| jeblair | we can always keep the mysql table around and switch back if something goes very wrong. ;) | 22:29 |
| SpamapS | I'd say that shouldn't matter too much. Running in prod is a form of disaster testing. ;) | 22:29 |
| fungi | would be excellent timing. activity volume is likely to be somewhat low but people will still be around | 22:29 |
| jeblair | i put this on the infra meeting agenda, so i'll say that tomorrow at that meeting. :) | 22:30 |
| fungi | excellent | 22:30 |
| jeblair | #agreed attempt to use zk images in infra production nodepool pending resolution of blockers (including positive results from disaster testing), ideally late this week / early next | 22:31 |
| jeblair | any other nodepool zk status updates? | 22:32 |
| Shrews | not from me | 22:32 |
| pabelanger | same | 22:32 |
| jeblair | #topic Status updates (Zuul test enablement) | 22:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates (Zuul test enablement) (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:33 | |
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| jeblair | anything we need to talk about here? | 22:34 |
| SpamapS | I submitted 3 patches | 22:34 |
| SpamapS | lots of others in flight | 22:34 |
| SpamapS | still a long long way to go | 22:34 |
| SpamapS | But progress is definitely ongoing | 22:34 |
| jeblair | ++ | 22:34 |
| * jhesketh will try and catch up on reviews for those today | 22:34 | |
| adam_g | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/406361/ moves some stuff around, adds a couple new tests and re-enables the merge-mode project config option | 22:34 |
| jeblair | i know i've been answering a lot of questions, so hopefully this is working as intended and folks are finding it useful | 22:35 |
| adam_g | jeblair: definitely, thanks for that | 22:35 |
| jeblair | (and i love talking about this stuff) | 22:35 |
| SpamapS | I do want to say that a lot of what worried me about v3's long-lived-feature-branch status is mitigated by the amount of functional testing present. | 22:35 |
| jamielennox | if there's a basic hit list for this it would be useful | 22:36 |
| jamielennox | i know to stay away from cloner, but otherwise i'm kind of picking at random | 22:36 |
| SpamapS | By seeing a test that is marked 'skip' for what it was meant to test in pre-v3 .. it helps me to reason about what is meant to change without losing some of the battle hardening of pre-v3. | 22:36 |
| SpamapS | jamielennox: grep -r '@skip' tests | 22:36 |
| jamielennox | so maybe less hit list, vs this has drastically changed | 22:37 |
| SpamapS | I've kind of been targeting scheduler. | 22:37 |
| jamielennox | like i messed with the template tests for a while before realizing they didn't make sense anymore :) | 22:37 |
| SpamapS | jamielennox: It's good to lean on jeblair. I mean it. He's a font of information. Dunno how he keeps it all under that fedora. ;) | 22:37 |
| fungi | pocket dimension | 22:38 |
| SpamapS | fungi: right.. obviously | 22:38 |
| pabelanger | i believe I still 1 or 2 tests in merge conflict, I'll work to fix that | 22:38 |
| jamielennox | anyway, no big deal, there's plenty to find | 22:39 |
| SpamapS | and of course, always check story 2000773 to make sure nobody else is working on a test yet. | 22:39 |
| jamielennox | yep | 22:39 |
| SpamapS | (and add your own task for any tests you want to work on) | 22:39 |
| SpamapS | It's been going quite well.. I see tons of stuff merged and submitted. | 22:39 |
| jeblair | and yeah, if something seems fishy, feel free to check in with me early | 22:40 |
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| jeblair | okay, let's move on to the progress summary | 22:41 |
| jeblair | #topic Progress summary | 22:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress summary (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:41 | |
| SpamapS | #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/board/41 | 22:41 |
| jeblair | #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/board/41 | 22:41 |
| SpamapS | haha | 22:41 |
| SpamapS | doh | 22:41 |
| jeblair | we did that last meeting to | 22:41 |
| SpamapS | jeblair: you made us a new toy! | 22:41 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: all yours :) | 22:41 |
| jlk | pretty | 22:41 |
| SpamapS | so, you may notice that as of about 45 minutes ago, the new "New" lane was filled with tasks. | 22:42 |
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| SpamapS | jeblair made a script that fills that with any tasks that aren't already on the board and are attached to a story tagged 'zuulv3' | 22:42 |
| SpamapS | So, this should ensure that we have a complete view of #allTheTHings | 22:42 |
| mordred | \o/ | 22:43 |
| SpamapS | it will also remove completed things | 22:43 |
| SpamapS | so I removed the Done lane | 22:43 |
| pabelanger | what is the difference between new and backlog? | 22:43 |
| SpamapS | New is stuff nobody has manually classified yet | 22:43 |
| pabelanger | okay | 22:44 |
| SpamapS | Backlog is "yep, that's something we want to do some day" and Todo is "Pick this up now" | 22:44 |
| clarkb | for example I think one of the new items is in progress | 22:44 |
| clarkb | (the handle catastrophic build failures) | 22:44 |
| SpamapS | clarkb: is it assigned to anyone? | 22:44 |
| clarkb | SpamapS: no | 22:44 |
| SpamapS | Then how can it be in progress? :) | 22:44 |
| clarkb | (shrews is the one with changes for it though I think) | 22:44 |
| jeblair | it will auto move things into in-progress if the task is updated to be in progress | 22:44 |
| jeblair | clarkb: which one? | 22:44 |
| clarkb | Card #493 - Set image/upload states to deleting after failure | 22:45 |
| SpamapS | oh I didn't even remember that. | 22:45 |
| clarkb | SpamapS: it is in progress because someone is doing the work? | 22:45 |
| SpamapS | clarkb: I was being facetious :) | 22:45 |
| jeblair | clarkb: you're thinking of the other change next to that | 22:45 |
| clarkb | ah ok | 22:45 |
| jeblair | i'm sorry i don't have numbers right now | 22:45 |
| jeblair | but i filed to stories one after the other | 22:46 |
| jeblair | they *might* end up being the same bug | 22:46 |
| clarkb | oh right this was that one | 22:46 |
| jeblair | but Shrews picked up one of them | 22:46 |
| jeblair | and that's the other | 22:46 |
| clarkb | where it was "maybe same bug but maybe not so lets be careful" iirc | 22:46 |
| jeblair | clarkb: yeah | 22:47 |
| jeblair | (and i'm sure i saw a story or task header on the change for it) | 22:47 |
| Shrews | jeblair: does my outstanding review cover both SB items you created last week? seems like it might | 22:47 |
| jeblair | Shrews: we should check | 22:48 |
| Shrews | i couldn't find them on the current workboard | 22:48 |
| jeblair | i'll dig into it after the meeting | 22:48 |
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| Shrews | oh, they're there now | 22:49 |
| jeblair | i want to spend our remaining time talking about the nodepool-zuul spec -- anything else here? | 22:50 |
| SpamapS | so anyway, if you see a task that you think _is_ being done, it would help me if you ping me or just assign/update it. Thanks. | 22:50 |
| jeblair | ++ | 22:51 |
| jeblair | #topic Zuul v3: use Zookeeper for Nodepool-Zuul protocol | 22:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Zuul v3: use Zookeeper for Nodepool-Zuul protocol (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:51 | |
| jeblair | #link Zuul v3: use Zookeeper for Nodepool-Zuul protocol https://review.openstack.org/305506 | 22:51 |
| jeblair | i revised this spec update based on comments, and things we've learned about zk so far | 22:51 |
| jeblair | i think it's about time to start working on it | 22:51 |
| jeblair | ideally around the time we put the zk builder into production | 22:52 |
| jeblair | i have it on tomorrow's infra team meeting agenda | 22:52 |
| jeblair | so please take a look at it soon | 22:52 |
| clarkb | jeblair: Shrews do the comments near the top imply step 0 is maybe patching kazoo? | 22:53 |
| jeblair | if there are any big red flags we can delay it... | 22:53 |
| Shrews | clarkb: nope | 22:53 |
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| Shrews | clarkb: writing our own implementation, as jeblair points out in a later response | 22:53 |
| jeblair | yeah, it's really simple | 22:53 |
| Shrews | although I'd LOVE for someone to implement read locks in kazoo, if they have time :) | 22:54 |
| clarkb | gotcha using more fundamental aspects of zk to manage it | 22:54 |
| * Shrews sidetracks the convo | 22:54 | |
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| jeblair | Shrews has volunteered to continue to head this effort, and i think he's well placed to do so | 22:55 |
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| jeblair | mordred has talked about making a shim so we can use this immediately with zuul v2 | 22:55 |
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| mordred | yes - I will work on that | 22:55 |
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| mordred | tl;dr - daemon that behaves like current nodepool talking to the v2 launchers but requests nodes over zk from new nodepool | 22:56 |
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| fungi | nifty! | 22:56 |
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| jeblair | i think it's a swell idea that helps us make the v3 migration as stepwise as possible | 22:57 |
| jeblair | i can work on the zuul (requesting) side of this (which i think will be pretty simple) | 22:58 |
| fungi | the potential "big bang" aspect of the v3 cutover is the scariest bit, to me | 22:58 |
| Shrews | *phew*, was hoping i didn't have to touch the zuul sie | 22:58 |
| Shrews | side | 22:58 |
| jeblair | fungi: yeah, this will mean that it's "only" zuul. :) | 22:58 |
| fungi | so anything incremental eases my mind | 22:58 |
| jeblair | Shrews: i'll ask you to review though :) | 22:59 |
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| jeblair | anyway, if folks can review that asap, that would be great | 22:59 |
| * clarkb reviews | 22:59 | |
| jeblair | and heads up that i'd like to do the same for https://review.openstack.org/381329 next week | 22:59 |
| Shrews | SpamapS: given your past zk experience, i think you reviewing that would be good | 23:00 |
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| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/381329 | 23:00 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 23:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 23:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 23:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Dec 5 23:00:17 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2016/zuul.2016-12-05-22.02.html | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2016/zuul.2016-12-05-22.02.txt | 23:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2016/zuul.2016-12-05-22.02.log.html | 23:00 |
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