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| edleafe | #startmeeting nova_scheduler | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon May 1 14:00:27 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is edleafe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 14:00 |
| cdent | o/ | 14:00 |
| mriedem | o/ | 14:00 |
| edleafe | Who's here? | 14:00 |
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| jaypipes | 0/ | 14:00 |
| jaypipes | or o/ | 14:01 |
| cdent | jaypipes: I think the first was right, you do have an impressively large head | 14:01 |
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| jaypipes | cdent: lol | 14:01 |
| * edleafe thought cdent was going to make a zero brains crack | 14:01 | |
| cdent | look at the big brains on jay! | 14:02 |
| edleafe | #topic Specs & Reviews | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs & Reviews (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:02 | |
| edleafe | os-traits | 14:02 |
| edleafe | #link Sync os-traits in placement DB https://review.openstack.org/450125 | 14:02 |
| edleafe | Is this something we need? Or should we only do this if we see a performance hit? | 14:03 |
| jaypipes | I don't think it's a performance thing | 14:03 |
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| mriedem | sfinucan would probably warn them against using anything from "from nova.cmd import common as cmd_common" | 14:03 |
| jaypipes | ya | 14:04 |
| edleafe | so is this something necessary? | 14:05 |
| mriedem | he's been alerted | 14:05 |
| mriedem | so what is this for? if we don't find a trait in the db we lookup in the library? | 14:05 |
| mriedem | i still haven't read the traits spec | 14:06 |
| mriedem | and if your library is backlevel then you're kind of screwed for new traits | 14:06 |
| cdent | mriedem: its to put all the traits in the db | 14:06 |
| cdent | instead of using the library | 14:06 |
| edleafe | It's for when the os-traits lib changes | 14:06 |
| edleafe | This will update the copy in the DB | 14:06 |
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| jaypipes | mriedem: yeah, basically it adds records for the standard traits (os-traits traits) into the API DB and ensures there's records in the traits table with the name of the trait and an autoincremt id. | 14:06 |
| edleafe | So we can do all those yummy SQL joings | 14:06 |
| mriedem | but if we don't find a trait in the db we fallback to the library? | 14:06 |
| edleafe | joins | 14:06 |
| mriedem | how often are operators expected to run this? | 14:07 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: whereas we have all the standard resource classes use their "ID" from the fields.ResourceClass.STANDARD enum, we don't have the same luxury for standard traits. | 14:07 |
| mriedem | on a cron? | 14:07 |
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| jaypipes | mriedem: whenever os-traits does a release and they want to use one of the new traits in that release. | 14:07 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: it's not too onerous, really... | 14:08 |
| mriedem | it's not just operators using traits though right? but i guess they can control if they expose the support | 14:08 |
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| mriedem | are the traits available in a cloud discoverable by the end user? | 14:08 |
| cdent | so, just for sake of devil's advocate, what's wrong with validating input against the os.traits module, and then storing the strings in the db? | 14:08 |
| jaypipes | mriedem: yes | 14:09 |
| mriedem | oh right, | 14:09 |
| mriedem | /traits | 14:09 |
| mriedem | derp | 14:09 |
| jaypipes | right | 14:09 |
| jaypipes | cdent: either way, it will depend on the release of os-traits the controller has installed. | 14:10 |
| mriedem | ok i was concerned about interop, but since it's discoverable i care less | 14:10 |
| mriedem | so if i'm an operator, i probably run this like i run nova-manage db sync | 14:10 |
| cdent | jaypipes: sure but if you don't sync, then you don't have to sync | 14:10 |
| cdent | which is one less thing to forget | 14:10 |
| cdent | and the package will automatically depend on the os_traits lib | 14:11 |
| cdent | so the question still stands: what's wrong with strings? | 14:11 |
| jaypipes | cdent: yeah, we could also do a "hey, check if the $TRAIT_NAME is in os-traits. If it isn't, return 404. If it is, check if it's in the DB and if not, add it. but that would be a little less efficient, yes? | 14:11 |
| jaypipes | so maybe this is a perf thing after all :) | 14:11 |
| cdent | if we are worried about efficiency on a list of strings that is <10,000 entries, aren't we...confused? | 14:12 |
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| cdent | (I'm not exactly opposed to the change, I just want to be clear on the reasons) | 14:13 |
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| edleafe | Well, why don't we all review that change, and comment on the review? | 14:15 |
| * cdent nods | 14:15 | |
| edleafe | Next up: | 14:15 |
| edleafe | Claims in the Scheduler | 14:15 |
| edleafe | #link Claims in the scheduler series: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/460177/ | 14:15 |
| * jaypipes nods too | 14:15 | |
| edleafe | Sylvain is off today like a good French worker | 14:16 |
| * cdent is a bad worker | 14:16 | |
| edleafe | I'm concerned with the last one in that series | 14:16 |
| edleafe | Moving claims to the scheduler because of a previous premature optimization choice seems... bad | 14:17 |
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| edleafe | s/the scheduler/the conductor | 14:17 |
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| cdent | I think perhaps at this point we're just going to have to go with the WIP aspect of all this | 14:18 |
| edleafe | Yes, and keep providing direction | 14:18 |
| cdent | however, I'd prefer if we were WIPping in the general direction of the original plan, and then moving away from that if it proves incomplete | 14:19 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: k, will review that today. | 14:19 |
| edleafe | So yeah, it is all still WIP, so let's make sure we actually *make progress* | 14:19 |
| cdent | progress++ | 14:19 |
| mriedem | keep in mind, | 14:20 |
| mriedem | there is also a push for a general long-term direction to make the scheduler a library, | 14:20 |
| mriedem | so we can drop another service you have to run | 14:20 |
| mriedem | that's motivating some of this | 14:20 |
| mriedem | at this point, | 14:21 |
| mriedem | i've already forgotten all of the pros/cons of each approach really, | 14:21 |
| mriedem | and they weren't all documented in the spec | 14:21 |
| edleafe | Having the scheduler as a library doesn't seem to impact this at all | 14:21 |
| edleafe | In general, we always assumed that the thing making the choice from placement would then make the allocation | 14:22 |
| mriedem | i honestly don't even remember why we said conductor needs to do it last week | 14:23 |
| edleafe | Moving on... Nested Resource Providers | 14:23 |
| edleafe | Nested Resource provider series still doesn't show any signs of life | 14:23 |
| edleafe | #link Nested RPs: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/415920/ | 14:23 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: status? | 14:23 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: I'd like to get the shared resources pike series done first, along with the get_inventory() patches. | 14:24 |
| mriedem | oh right the scheduler interface... ignore me | 14:24 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: then rebase and move forward with n-r-p | 14:24 |
| mriedem | jaypipes: that makes sense, since nrp needs to give it's inventory via get_inventory | 14:24 |
| jaypipes | right | 14:24 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: link? | 14:24 |
| jaypipes | sec | 14:24 |
| jaypipes | #link get_inventory: https://review.openstack.org/457782 | 14:25 |
| jaypipes | #link shared-resources-pike: https://review.openstack.org/460798 | 14:25 |
| edleafe | cool, thx | 14:25 |
| jaypipes | currently fixing up comments on https://review.openstack.org/460798 from you and cdent. | 14:25 |
| edleafe | Will look those over later | 14:25 |
| edleafe | next up: Ironic testing for custom Resource Classes | 14:26 |
| edleafe | # link Ironic custom RC tests https://review.openstack.org/#/c/443628/ | 14:26 |
| edleafe | Anyone have anything to comment on that? | 14:26 |
| jaypipes | no, just need to review. | 14:26 |
| edleafe | ok, then... Docs | 14:27 |
| edleafe | #link Placement API ref https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:cd/placement-api-ref | 14:27 |
| jaypipes | also rpodolyaka just got married on Saturday, so he's out for a few :) | 14:27 |
| edleafe | looks like that series is making some progress | 14:27 |
| edleafe | how dare he! | 14:27 |
| jaypipes | and avolkov is also still on PTO | 14:27 |
| edleafe | cdent: anything to add about docs? | 14:28 |
| cdent | I was looking this morning at what's required to do the actual publishing (not draft). shouldn't be too onerous | 14:28 |
| cdent | but will require a special job because of the placement-within-nova-ness | 14:29 |
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| edleafe | fun | 14:29 |
| mriedem | because the existing job assumes a file structure right? | 14:29 |
| cdent | mriedem: yes | 14:30 |
| cdent | it's a small difference | 14:30 |
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| edleafe | OK, any other specs/reviews to discuss? | 14:31 |
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| jaypipes | edleafe: no specs, but I have an open item to discuss. :) | 14:32 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: opens is coming up soon | 14:33 |
| jaypipes | kk | 14:33 |
| edleafe | #topic Bugs | 14:33 |
| edleafe | #link Placement bugs https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=placement | 14:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:33 | |
| edleafe | One new bug, that I see cdent has already responded to | 14:33 |
| cdent | there was a new one, I responded to it asking for n-cpu logs | 14:33 |
| cdent | jinx! | 14:33 |
| edleafe | jinx | 14:33 |
| cdent | yay! | 14:33 |
| edleafe | anything else about that bug? | 14:33 |
| edleafe | ...or any other bug? | 14:34 |
| cdent | it's probably the <Directory> thing | 14:34 |
| edleafe | let's move on | 14:34 |
| edleafe | #topic Open discussion | 14:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:34 | |
| edleafe | jaypipes? | 14:34 |
| jaypipes | so, I have two talks on the placement API in Boston. I'm done with slides for one of them and 85% done with the other one. I was hoping I could get feedback from folks on them? | 14:35 |
| jaypipes | already shared with mriedem and dansmith but I'd like to share with edleafe, cdent and others if that's ok? | 14:35 |
| cdent | yes please | 14:36 |
| edleafe | of course | 14:36 |
| jaypipes | ok, thanks guys. | 14:36 |
| jaypipes | you'll see a google docs share notice shortly. | 14:36 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: use my gmail addy: edleafe@gmail.com | 14:36 |
| jaypipes | will do, thx | 14:36 |
| edleafe | makes sharing gdocs easier | 14:36 |
| jaypipes | also, word of warning: the slide template is the Mirantis Boston summit template. I don't control it or the fonts. :) | 14:37 |
| edleafe | excuses, excuses... | 14:37 |
| jaypipes | cdent: you have a gmail | 14:37 |
| jaypipes | ? | 14:37 |
| cdent | chris.dent | 14:37 |
| jaypipes | k, thx | 14:38 |
| jaypipes | k, shared. thx in advance for the feedback. | 14:38 |
| edleafe | OK, looking forward to tearing up jay's slide decks | 14:38 |
| jaypipes | I'll share the second talk shortly. | 14:38 |
| jaypipes | :) | 14:38 |
| jaypipes | go for it, edleafe! | 14:38 |
| edleafe | Anything else for open discussion? | 14:39 |
| edleafe | wow, even the crickets are quiet this morning! | 14:39 |
| jaypipes | heh | 14:39 |
| edleafe | #endmeeting | 14:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:39 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon May 1 14:39:56 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:39 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2017/nova_scheduler.2017-05-01-14.00.html | 14:39 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2017/nova_scheduler.2017-05-01-14.00.txt | 14:40 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2017/nova_scheduler.2017-05-01-14.00.log.html | 14:40 |
| cdent | thanks edleafe | 14:40 |
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| dave-mccowan | #startmeeting barbican | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon May 1 20:00:01 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dave-mccowan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'barbican' | 20:00 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic roll call | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:00 | |
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| diazjf | o/ | 20:00 |
| dave-mccowan | hi diazjf | 20:01 |
| diazjf | hey dave-mccowan | 20:01 |
| kfarr | \o/ | 20:02 |
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| alee | o/ | 20:02 |
| dave-mccowan | hi alee kfarr! | 20:02 |
| alee | yo | 20:02 |
| dave-mccowan | the agenda is in the usual spot https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Barbican | 20:03 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic pike status | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pike status (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:03 | |
| dave-mccowan | 17 weeks to go :-) | 20:03 |
| dave-mccowan | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-tracker-pike | 20:03 |
| dave-mccowan | for the py35 community goal, barbican is looking good now. we could expand it to include barbican client, tempest, and castellan. | 20:04 |
| dave-mccowan | the goal is to get any functional tests working in both p27 and py35 | 20:04 |
| dave-mccowan | diazjf what's the latest with deprecation? | 20:05 |
| diazjf | Still need some reviews | 20:05 |
| diazjf | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459135/ | 20:05 |
| diazjf | will rebase it tonight | 20:05 |
| dave-mccowan | alee kfarr any pike feature updates? | 20:06 |
| kfarr | Nope, not for now! | 20:06 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, nope - though I may have a little time this week | 20:07 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic summit prep | 20:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit prep (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:07 | |
| dave-mccowan | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-pike-summit | 20:07 |
| dave-mccowan | we already have a pretty full schedule, would anyone be interested in reserving a "hacking room" for a work session? | 20:08 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, I think its going to be a pretty full schedule | 20:09 |
| kfarr | I think my schedule will be pretty full the whole time | 20:09 |
| diazjf | dave-mccowan, I was able to add myself as a speaker for the managing contributions presentation, will have slides complete by Thursday. | 20:09 |
| diazjf | kfarr, will review your changes to the workshop application and add some | 20:09 |
| diazjf | changes as well as review the presentation. If I am unable to meet tomorrow | 20:09 |
| diazjf | I will email y'all with what I have completed. | 20:09 |
| redrobot | o/ | 20:09 |
| dave-mccowan | i agree... unless we had a specific topic that would benefit from a face-to-face, we shouldn't add another session. | 20:09 |
| dave-mccowan | redrobot! \o/ | 20:10 |
| alee | redrobot, diazjf , dave-mccowan , kfarr - we still planning on meeting tomorrow? | 20:10 |
| kfarr | I was planning on it! | 20:10 |
| dave-mccowan | alee +1 11am EDT | 20:10 |
| alee | we really should have at least one last meeting to iron out all the things needed | 20:10 |
| alee | good | 20:10 |
| redrobot | Yes, I'm officially FUNemployed, so I have nothing but time to work on prezos and workshop and stuff :D | 20:10 |
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| alee | redrobot, no margarita during the meeting please .. | 20:11 |
| alee | before and after maybe .. | 20:11 |
| diazjf | alee, I'll be up tonight getting a few things ready. Will email you whats done if I cannot attend the meeting | 20:11 |
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| kfarr | redrobot :( | 20:12 |
| redrobot | alee lol | 20:12 |
| diazjf | redrobot, make a startup! | 20:12 |
| alee | ok - I think we're in pretty good shape - it would be nice to wrap it all all up over the couple of days and do a final test | 20:12 |
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| dave-mccowan | i'm wrapping up the "Project Update" slides. The foundation sent a template in PPT format, instead of google. I'll upload them for review/comments later tonight. | 20:14 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic review requests | 20:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review requests (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:15 | |
| dave-mccowan | Jeremy has had "Refactor barbicanclient" outstanding for a while now. https://review.openstack.org/403604 | 20:16 |
| dave-mccowan | any thoughts on this? | 20:16 |
| diazjf | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459135/ | 20:16 |
| diazjf | The deprecation of Certificate Orders | 20:17 |
| diazjf | Until when do I have to remove these items. At worst case, I will remove certificates from the API and remove everything else after. dave-mccowan how does that idea sound? | 20:18 |
| dave-mccowan | also, please take a look at Nicholas's and Rohan's patches on migrating us to cryptography library. hopefully we can get at least 3 core reviews on these, since crypto has to be right. | 20:19 |
| dave-mccowan | diazjf that makes sense to split up the removal like that. i'm not sure we have a deadline... just as long as we don't have every feature at once right at the end. :-) | 20:19 |
| diazjf | dave-mccowan, cool! That will make reviewing way easier :) | 20:20 |
| dave-mccowan | #topic any other business | 20:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "any other business (Meeting topic: barbican)" | 20:21 | |
| kfarr | I have a question for the dogtag plugin folks: alee | 20:21 |
| kfarr | I think the dogtag unit tests are getting skipped in the gate | 20:21 |
| kfarr | So I put up a test patch to add dogtag-pki to test-requirements: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/461237/ | 20:22 |
| kfarr | And after I added that, it seemed like the tests are *now* running, but barf on config errors | 20:22 |
| kfarr | I was wondering that was something that should be addressed | 20:23 |
| alee | kfarr, hmm .. I'll take a look at that this week | 20:23 |
| alee | kfarr, I know that there was a config issue , but I though oz had resolved it | 20:23 |
| kfarr | Right, that was for the functional tests though | 20:24 |
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| alee | kfarr, oh - the unit tests .. | 20:24 |
| kfarr | right right | 20:24 |
| alee | kfarr, well its possible those might be skipped because to run those you have to have the dogtag python package installed | 20:25 |
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| alee | there is a try: import pki at the top of the file | 20:25 |
| kfarr | alee, right, exactly, they were being skipped because the package wasn't there | 20:26 |
| kfarr | but then, I don't think they were getting run in any gate anywhere | 20:26 |
| kfarr | because I thought the dogtag gate only ran the functional tests | 20:26 |
| alee | at the time it was because the dogtag client was not pip installable -- but thats no longer true | 20:26 |
| alee | so yes, this is something that should be changed | 20:27 |
| alee | so it can be run | 20:27 |
| alee | kfarr, I'll look into that this week | 20:27 |
| alee | kfarr, I suspect there may be things I need to fix :/ | 20:27 |
| kfarr | alee ok! | 20:27 |
| dave-mccowan | alee's week is filling up. :-) | 20:27 |
| dave-mccowan | should we extend the timeout for dogtag functional tests. they look like they almost finish now, but not quite. | 20:28 |
| kfarr | yeah in the patch I linked above, it seemed like things were not very happy after I added the dogtag dependency | 20:28 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, and I'm not done with meetings today yet | 20:28 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, yeah - I'll look into that -- they finish once but not twice iirc | 20:29 |
| dave-mccowan | alee i changed it, so we only run once now. (at least for the regular functional tests now) | 20:29 |
| alee | dave-mccowan, ok -- so we should be almost three -- I need to see what takes so long to run | 20:29 |
| alee | ( I suspect its the package installs) | 20:30 |
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| alee | and I had a relatively light week this week before now .. | 20:30 |
| dave-mccowan | we're very close to all passing gate jobs now. :-) | 20:31 |
| dave-mccowan | last two things.... | 20:31 |
| dave-mccowan | Congratulations to Jeremy Liu, new Barbican core reviewer | 20:31 |
| kfarr | \o/ hooray! | 20:31 |
| diazjf | Congrats!!!! | 20:31 |
| kfarr | I already saw him giving out +2s | 20:31 |
| dave-mccowan | you can still add your +1 to the mail list if you haven't already | 20:31 |
| dave-mccowan | and no meeting next Monday due to summit | 20:32 |
| kfarr | dave-mccowan also I wanted to ask re: the gate timeouts | 20:32 |
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| alee | just out of curiosity -- who will be at summit? | 20:32 |
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| kfarr | I think the gates are launching a full devstack, and we might be able to cut down on time if we just do keystone and barbican | 20:33 |
| kfarr | alee me ! | 20:33 |
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| alee | besides me, dave-mccowan , diazjf , kfarr , redrobot | 20:33 |
| alee | kfarr, yeah - that would hep everywhere! | 20:33 |
| kfarr | dane-fichter from apl | 20:33 |
| dave-mccowan | that's all i have for today then. talk to you all tomoroww! | 20:35 |
| dave-mccowan | #endmeeting | 20:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:35 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon May 1 20:35:46 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:35 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2017/barbican.2017-05-01-20.00.html | 20:35 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2017/barbican.2017-05-01-20.00.txt | 20:35 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/barbican/2017/barbican.2017-05-01-20.00.log.html | 20:35 |
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| leong | #startmeeting product_working_group | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon May 1 21:00:40 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is leong. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'product_working_group' | 21:00 |
| leong | #chair shamail | 21:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: leong shamail | 21:00 |
| leong | #topic rollcall | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:01 | |
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| shamail | Hi! I'm going to be mostly quiet since in transit but Siri can speak for me from time to time | 21:01 |
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| leong | hello ..anyone here for PWG meeting? | 21:01 |
| leong | hi Siri :-) | 21:01 |
| heidijoy | o/ | 21:01 |
| MeganR | o/ | 21:01 |
| leong | hello heidijoy | 21:01 |
| rockyg | o/ brb | 21:01 |
| shamail | lol | 21:01 |
| leong | hello meganr, rockgy | 21:01 |
| leong | let's wait for 2 minutes for other folks to join in... | 21:02 |
| shamail | Ok | 21:02 |
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| leong | #link Agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/product-team | 21:02 |
| * leong waiting 2 mins for other folks to join in... | 21:03 | |
| leong | today agenda can be found in the above link... | 21:03 |
| AndyU | Hi All o/ | 21:03 |
| leong | hi andyu | 21:04 |
| leong | looks like we have the quorum to kick start... | 21:04 |
| AndyU | Hi Leong | 21:04 |
| GeraldK | o/ | 21:04 |
| leong | #link Agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/product-team | 21:04 |
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| leong | let's get going.. | 21:05 |
| leong | #topic Boston Summit/Forum planning review | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Boston Summit/Forum planning review (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:05 | |
| leong | i want to make sure that the team is ready for summit/forum | 21:05 |
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| leong | anyone still need help? | 21:06 |
| leong | I have email the UC/operators/dev maillist about the pre-forum preparation, which includes the etherpad template and ##hashtag | 21:06 |
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| AndyU | I have something... who's responsible for building this page? us? | 21:06 |
| shamail | I'm good, thanks for asking. | 21:07 |
| AndyU | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Forum/Boston2017 | 21:07 |
| leong | andyu: which page? | 21:07 |
| leong | i assume each session's moderator is asked to add the link | 21:07 |
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| rockyg | AndyU, yup. Remove the directions on the etherpad and put in your session's information/questions/whetever, then let the community also add stuff | 21:07 |
| AndyU | There's A LOT missing | 21:07 |
| rockyg | We're all procrastinators | 21:08 |
| shamail | Yes, each moderator is supposed to add the link | 21:08 |
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| leong | we probably can remind Forum Planning committee to send the email again as a reminder? | 21:08 |
| AndyU | There are a lot of people who don't know what to do | 21:08 |
| leong | just for information here in case you need the link.. | 21:08 |
| leong | #link Moderator Template: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-forum-moderator-template | 21:08 |
| rockyg | good idea. Also, might want to include quick instructions for logging into the wiki and editing it | 21:08 |
| leong | #link Hashtag Definition: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-forum-hashtag-definition | 21:09 |
| leong | #link Bostom Forum Session Etherpad: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Forum/Boston2017 | 21:09 |
| leong | shamail: since you are in the forum planning committee, do you want to do that? | 21:09 |
| leong | shamail: --> remind Forum Planning committee to send the email again as a reminde | 21:09 |
| AndyU | +1 RockyG | 21:09 |
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| shamail | Sure, I can do that. I was going to remind people when I send a note to the moderators | 21:10 |
| leong | #action shamail, as a Forum Planning committee will send reminder email to moderators to include etherpad links at the wiki page. | 21:11 |
| AndyU | As a moderator I don't recall getting anything telling me to add my session and etherpad link to that wiki page. But doesn't mean I didn't get one... | 21:11 |
| leong | andyu: there was an email sent out | 21:11 |
| shamail | Tom sent an email to the mailing list, not individual moderators. | 21:11 |
| AndyU | Direct or via mail lists? | 21:12 |
| rockyg | mail lists | 21:12 |
| shamail | MLs | 21:12 |
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| AndyU | Ah... yep. There are many "Users" jumping in now who are not plugged into those mail lists and other "community insider" type things | 21:13 |
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| leong | i believe, majority of the moderators are aware.... | 21:14 |
| shamail | leong: +1 | 21:14 |
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| leong | with regards to the Forum and ##hashtag, i would like to ask all PWG members (especially those attending any session), to actively using (and advising people) the ##hashtag | 21:15 |
| shamail | We wouldn't even after have their email addresses he didn't post to mailList since we didn't collect email addresses in the form | 21:16 |
| leong | this is the first time PWG driving this effort at Boston Forum, so the ##hashtag method is pretty new | 21:16 |
| shamail | Blah :) | 21:16 |
| AndyU | I'm sure the majority are, but still some are not. maybe more that we realize. I think a direct email would be good. Covering at least: basic logistics, creating etherpads and posting to the wiki page, the hashtags, maybe some moderator tips | 21:16 |
| shamail | Didn't collect email addresses | 21:17 |
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| AndyU | Shamail - Ahhh... lesson for next time ;-) | 21:17 |
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| leong | in the normal practice in the past, usually the "moderator" will take the initiative..:-) | 21:17 |
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| shamail | 🙂 | 21:18 |
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| leong | i think the action item to remind moderator should be fine.. let's move on next topic :-) | 21:18 |
| leong | just want to emphasis this again :) --> with regards to the Forum and ##hashtag, i would like to ask all PWG members (especially those attending any session), to actively using (and advising people) the ##hashtag | 21:19 |
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| AndyU | I added some sessions to the wiki/Forum/Boston2017 page fixed some formatting, and filled in some missing bits | 21:19 |
| GeraldK | leong: got it | 21:20 |
| AndyU | Leong - understood | 21:20 |
| leong | also want to make sure all aware the BoF and Working Session date/time | 21:20 |
| heidijoy | Just adding a note about the ##hashtag use on each etherpad will help people remember. We can all do that (add reminders in the etherpad during sessions) | 21:20 |
| leong | #link PWG BoF: https://www.openstack.org/summit/boston-2017/summit-schedule/events/17633/product-work-group-what-is-that | 21:20 |
| leong | #info PWG BoF: Wednesday, May 10, 5:20pm-6:00pm, Hynes Convention Center - Level 2 - MR 202 | 21:21 |
| leong | #link PWG Working Session: https://www.openstack.org/summit/boston-2017/summit-schedule/events/17637/product-working-group-working-session | 21:21 |
| leong | #info PWG Working Session: Wednesday, May 10, 2:40pm-3:20pm, Hynes Convention Center - Level 2 - MR 201 | 21:21 |
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| leong | heidijoy: yes.. i did included a note on the etherpad template | 21:21 |
| AndyU | #link PWG Development Proposal Process https://www.openstack.org/summit/boston-2017/summit-schedule/events/18773/usersoperators-contributing-multi-project-requirements | 21:21 |
| heidijoy | I saw that, just thinking adding it "in the moment" will help | 21:22 |
| leong | heidijoy: +1 | 21:22 |
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| AndyU | #link PWG Development Proposal Process etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-forum-contributing-multi-project-requirements | 21:22 |
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| leong | #info PWG Development Proposal Process: Thursday, May 11, 9:00am-9:40am, Hynes Convention Center - Plaza Level - MR 104 | 21:23 |
| leong | andyu: thanks for the link :-) | 21:23 |
| AndyU | I just want to remind everyone of the dev proposal forum session | 21:23 |
| leong | and also the "Roadmap" session | 21:23 |
| AndyU | and encourage all to join and/or get into the etherpad. I confess I haven't yet. Thanks to Leong for getting it started. | 21:24 |
| leong | #link Community Generated Roadmap: https://www.openstack.org/summit/boston-2017/summit-schedule/events/17775/whats-going-on-in-openstack-learn-about-the-community-generated-roadmap | 21:24 |
| leong | #info Community Generated Roadmap: Tuesday, May 9, 2:50pm-3:30pm, Hynes Convention Center - Level 3 - MR 311 | 21:24 |
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| leong | #link Evolving Roadmap (Forum): https://www.openstack.org/summit/boston-2017/summit-schedule/events/18744/evolving-the-community-generated-roadmap | 21:25 |
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| leong | #info Evolving Roadmap (Forum): Monday, May 8, 2:00pm-2:40pm, Hynes Convention Center - Plaza Level - MR 104 | 21:25 |
| AndyU | heidijoy - looking forward to the roadmap and survey sessions | 21:25 |
| heidijoy | :-) | 21:25 |
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| leong | any PWG-driving session that i missed out? | 21:25 |
| AndyU | I'd like to help with those efforts next chance | 21:26 |
| leong | heidijoy: since you are here. do you want to update anything on the roadmap? | 21:27 |
| heidijoy | The purpose of the "Evolving the Roadmap" session at the Forum is to talk about what's going well and what could we do differently wrt the roadmap collection, content and expression of it. The Roadmap presentation to the community goes through the data we collected this cycle and various visualizations of it. | 21:27 |
| leong | #topic Roadmap Update | 21:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roadmap Update (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:27 | |
| heidijoy | We have 24 projects reporting (~6 more than ever before) including all projects with 50% or greater adoption (9 projects) and 8 projects with >25% adoption, and 7 whose adoption isn’t tracked on the User Survey yet. This is by far the best (and most digestible) roadmap we’ve produced. It gives us deep info for the Pike marketing release well in advance. It also looks at: | 21:27 |
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| heidijoy | Individual projects - top 3 features/enhancements coming in Pike Top 10 features/enhancements for Pike (from all projects’ input) Individual projects- 80% of them shared 1 or more likely Queens features Development themes - we move from yes/no answers to “is resiliency a focus?” to answers with “major focus,” “minor focus,” “not a focus,” and “n/a or no info” to give a sharper sense of where deve | 21:27 |
| heidijoy | prevalent in each cycle, and a collapsed view of the next 3 cycles Which projects are focused on each development theme | 21:27 |
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| heidijoy | This is a key chart to pay attention to, and you can use it to cite when media/analysts are asking about NPS user dissatisfaction, in pointing out that the top 3 issues users identified are also getting the most attention from our developers over the coming three cycles: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ovjjy5v4zxn6wvq/Major%20Dev%20Forecast.png?dl=0 | 21:28 |
| AndyU | We moved the LCOO wg meeting to be right before or after(?) the PWG meeting. It would be great if lots of pwg folks could join the lcoo meeting. It would be great to make introductions and have discussion about opportunities to collaborate | 21:28 |
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| AndyU | oops... missed the topic change | 21:29 |
| heidijoy | Can I answer any questions on the roadmap? | 21:29 |
| leong | #andyu: LCOO working session is after PWG | 21:29 |
| leong | all: any question on roadmap? | 21:29 |
| heidijoy | I'm very happy with the strong response rate we got back. And the new visualizations should be interesting for the community. | 21:30 |
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| leong | heidijoy: that's awesome... :) | 21:30 |
| shamail | +1 | 21:30 |
| leong | shamail: do you have anything to add for the Roadmap Updat? | 21:31 |
| GeraldK | heidijoy: on the chart shared: shouldn't it show % instead of absolute numbers as the sum of major areas is not the same per release? | 21:31 |
| heidijoy | A question I've received is whether the chart I posted the link to above suggests that our projects are NOT interested in security. | 21:31 |
| AndyU | Can we get a sneak peak? | 21:31 |
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| heidijoy | I showed the absolute numbers to indicate how many projects responded to each. | 21:31 |
| shamail | Nope, Good from me | 21:31 |
| heidijoy | andyu I think we'll have a sneak peek in a couple of days. Working on assembling the individual project features content now. | 21:32 |
| AndyU | ok, thx | 21:32 |
| leong | i think the chart shows that: how many projects is taking X as a major focus in release Y | 21:33 |
| GeraldK | heidijoy: we could show the total number of responses in the bottom, e.g. Pike (56 votes), Queens (... votes), ... | 21:33 |
| heidijoy | Something the roadmap doesn't do this round, which we discussed in our Milan meeting, was incorporating user requests to guide dev. We're just not asking for that/ showing that yet. | 21:33 |
| leong | +1 to 'incorporating user requests to guide dev' to improve future roadmap | 21:34 |
| heidijoy | The total number of responses is 24 (total projects reporting). These aren't so much "votes" as they are the number of projects reporting that X theme is a "major focus" area for them in X cycle. | 21:34 |
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| shamail | I think we have to have the forum session 1st to get there | 21:34 |
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| leong | shamail: +1 | 21:34 |
| heidijoy | We do have context building in the beginning of our presentation to help further explain the visualization GeraldK | 21:34 |
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| heidijoy | shamail +1 | 21:35 |
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| leong | are we all good on the Roadmap topic? | 21:35 |
| pchadwick | @heidijoy - In the last roadmap session, we talked about what was in the current release as well as futures is that the plan this time? | 21:35 |
| heidijoy | I'm done with my update | 21:35 |
| * pchadwick comes late to the party. | 21:36 | |
| heidijoy | Yes, we're going to show Pike, Queens and Rocky in this presentation | 21:36 |
| leong | i would encourage all to attend the "evolving roadmap" forum session if you are interested to help with Roadmap :) | 21:36 |
| pchadwick | I meant Ocata ;) | 21:36 |
| AndyU | Our "Rocky"? :) | 21:36 |
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| rocky_g | Hi, guys!. Nope. The R release got named Rocky | 21:37 |
| * leong Rockyg will be famous in two more releases... | 21:37 | |
| pchadwick | In Barcelona, we listed what the key features were in Newton as well as futures in Ocata and Pike | 21:37 |
| rocky_g | There might have been a few votes because people knew me, but.... | 21:37 |
| AndyU | @RockyG - congrats... quite an honor ;) | 21:37 |
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| rocky_g | Thanks! Let's make this a Quality in operations focused release! | 21:38 |
| heidijoy | In this roadmap cycle we asked projects about PQR not OPQ since Ocata has already been released. | 21:38 |
| AndyU | Can't wait for the Shamail release | 21:38 |
| heidijoy | AndyU +1,000,000 | 21:38 |
| pchadwick | Darn, I missed my chance. | 21:38 |
| leong | i will try to challenge S release to "sun".. my last name.. lol | 21:39 |
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| AndyU | haha | 21:39 |
| leong | ok.. let's get back to business... | 21:39 |
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| pchadwick | @heidijoy - OK | 21:39 |
| shamail | I think with the New release cadence it doesn't make sense to include a release that came out two months prior. The new road map shows what is in flight and what's coming | 21:40 |
| leong | cool | 21:40 |
| shamail | Lol AndyU | 21:40 |
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| leong | shamail: +1 roadmap shows in progress and future | 21:40 |
| pchadwick | @shamail - yes, I just figured that out. | 21:40 |
| leong | next topic ... | 21:41 |
| leong | #topic Post-forum Report | 21:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Post-forum Report (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:41 | |
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| leong | shall we discuss what sort of data we would like to collect from Forum etherpad (by using the ##hashtag) | 21:41 |
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| leong | btw, thanks AndyU for a quick tip that allow me to "export" etherpad into text format in a very "super easy" way... | 21:42 |
| AndyU | How about we discuss what our role/objectives are for all that forum data | 21:43 |
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| leong | andyu: +1 | 21:43 |
| leong | anyone any suggestion? | 21:43 |
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| GeraldK | find out about new user stories or user story priorities | 21:44 |
| AndyU | For ex, look for important items that do not appear to have an "owner" and seek to get them one? Look for themes that would have broad impact and produce Development Proposals / solicit for owners of a Dev Proposal? | 21:45 |
| shamail | Provide a consolidated summary of the events using the data for those who weren't able to attend or join all session | 21:45 |
| rocky_g | get dev commitments for specs for high priority gaps -- if we can. Even one would be a start on learning how to make it happen | 21:45 |
| AndyU | We could make sure info tagged for a wg or a project is shared with them | 21:46 |
| leong | summarize tangible action items and priority that help dev to build features/solve problems for operators | 21:46 |
| shamail | rocky_g: +1 | 21:46 |
| AndyU | Consolidated Summary +1 | 21:46 |
| rocky_g | shamail, if you can attend/join all sessions, I will worship you as a modern day god | 21:46 |
| shamail | Lol | 21:46 |
| leong | andyu: +1 info tagged for a wg or a project is shared with them | 21:47 |
| AndyU | +1 identifying priority gaps for follow-up | 21:47 |
| AndyU | Hmmm... could we align the forum results to Roadmap and/or user Survey contents, themes, etc? | 21:49 |
| AndyU | It feels like Forum, Survey, Roadmap should all flow together | 21:50 |
| leong | the forum results would probably help project teams to align with user needs, which eventually will drive the roadmap items.. | 21:50 |
| heidijoy | leong + 1 | 21:51 |
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| AndyU | right. they all play a role in the same overall objective of injecting user needs/priorities | 21:51 |
| leong | ok.. let me summarize a few key points based on the above inputs | 21:51 |
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| leong | #info Post-Forum Report: Consolidated Summary | 21:52 |
| leong | #info Post-Forum Report: info tagged for a wg or a project is shared with respective team | 21:52 |
| shamail | Let's make sure we don't bite off more than we can chew because this is the first time we will be doing this. Showing value going to be important | 21:52 |
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| leong | #info Post-Forum Report: Prioritize features that align with user needs | 21:53 |
| leong | i think these 3 points is more than enough for us ... | 21:53 |
| leong | second item should be easy to generate using the small python program that i have | 21:54 |
| shamail | +1 | 21:54 |
| AndyU | priority gaps in need of ownership (at risk of not getting any follow-up) | 21:54 |
| leong | third item might need some analysis | 21:54 |
| leong | let's keep that as our Report objectives first, if anyone has suggestion, we can discuss over email | 21:55 |
| leong | last 5 minutess.. open | 21:55 |
| leong | #topic Open | 21:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:55 | |
| leong | I have one quick open item which brought up by Anni lai | 21:55 |
| leong | do we want to present a report to Board Meeting at Boston? | 21:55 |
| AndyU | I think doing a retrospective on the Forum would be beneficial as well | 21:55 |
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| rocky_g | Yeah, AndyU cand do that before the summit/forum, though. | 21:56 |
| leong | to update the Board and get engagement from TC/UC/Board for Development Proposal | 21:57 |
| AndyU | right. I meant the retrospective comment for part of the post-forum analysis | 21:57 |
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| rocky_g | I'd like to figure out a proposal based on what we've been discussing of how we work with TC to get developers involved once the priority gaps have been identified. Like asking them to drive some cross project meetings or something | 21:57 |
| rocky_g | We could use their help as facilitators to get the gap(s) turned into specs. | 21:58 |
| leong | rock_g: i assume that would be in the "gap analysis" phase? | 21:58 |
| leong | getting TC to faciliate "gap analysis"? | 21:58 |
| rocky_g | Again, one would take us a long way in the learning process. If we can get a commitment for them to stick with trying to get one turned into a spec, we all win | 21:58 |
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| AndyU | Do we have any alignment with this? https://www.openstack.org/summit/boston-2017/summit-schedule/events/17585/the-openstack-technical-committee-vision-for-2019-updates-stories-and-q-and-a | 21:59 |
| rocky_g | leong, no, not the gap analysis, but once we know the gap, getting them to create a spec for the work needing to be done to fill the gap | 21:59 |
| leong | let's push that the email discussion, then we will decide if we need an agenda item in the Board meeting | 21:59 |
| shamail | FYI: I asked for a session (and it's been accepted) for the Kubernetes SIG-PM group to meet and I proposed that the OpenStack PWG come to the session as well so we can discuss open-source Product Management (find out what works for them, us, etc.). The session isn't on the schedule yet but will be on Monday at 5:30P, I'll send an email to the ML once it's posted. | 21:59 |
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| leong | shamail: +1 | 21:59 |
| pchadwick | shamail: +1 | 22:00 |
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| leong | cool.. let's wrap up the meeting here | 22:00 |
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| leong | see u all at Boston (for those attending) | 22:00 |
| leong | and safe travel... | 22:00 |
| pchadwick | bye | 22:00 |
| shamail | Cya | 22:00 |
| leong | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon May 1 22:00:58 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-05-01-21.00.html | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-05-01-21.00.txt | 22:01 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-05-01-21.00.log.html | 22:01 |
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| GeraldK | bye | 22:01 |
| jeblair | any zuul folks around? | 22:01 |
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| * fungi checks | 22:02 | |
| fungi | er, yep! | 22:02 |
| clarkb | sort of | 22:02 |
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| fungi | it's like pre-summit week is an openstack holiday or something | 22:03 |
| fungi | oh, though today _is_ a holiday in most parts of the world where i don't live, so maybe it's just that | 22:04 |
| rocky_g | Like? Uh, week before and week after. Crickets. | 22:04 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 22:04 |
| jeblair | i think mordred is traveling today, and Shrews is more productively engaged :) | 22:04 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: around? | 22:04 |
| * fungi saw him push a zuulv3 change... radio silence broken | 22:04 | |
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| jlk | o/ | 22:05 |
| jeblair | seems vaguely quorumish | 22:05 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting zuul | 22:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon May 1 22:05:40 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zuul' | 22:05 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Zuul | 22:05 |
| jeblair | #topic Status updates: Zuul test enablement | 22:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: Zuul test enablement (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:06 | |
| jeblair | SpamapS is on a roll here | 22:06 |
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| jeblair | there are still some more remaining if folks are looking for fun and educational tasks | 22:06 |
| jeblair | not sure there's much else to add on this | 22:07 |
| jeblair | #topic Status updates: Zuul sample jobs | 22:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: Zuul sample jobs (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:07 | |
| jeblair | pabelanger: you restarted zuulv3-dev, right? | 22:07 |
| pabelanger | yes, last week | 22:08 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: what's the status with the sample jobs; should we be writing or reviewing anything? | 22:08 |
| pabelanger | Also started on our first stdlib: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459066/ was going to ping some people this week to bikeshed on it, specifically how we handle variables | 22:09 |
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| jeblair | oh cool, so we're ready to start reviewing that | 22:10 |
| pabelanger | would like to engage bonnyCI folks see if they could use that if we merged it or not | 22:10 |
| jeblair | i think shortly afterwords, we need to start thinking about how to make that reusable | 22:10 |
| pabelanger | in what sense? | 22:10 |
| jlk | yeah I SpamapS and I would like to get other BonnyCI folks engaged on the standard lib front | 22:11 |
| pabelanger | 459066 should be a simple one to tackle first | 22:11 |
| pabelanger | it has default users, and ports for zuul_stream | 22:11 |
| jeblair | whether it should go in a new repo, or be installed with zuul as a special case. the "playbooks/" directory within zuul is not necessarily the right place for it (it will contain playbooks for running and testing zuul, not necessarily things that should be in the stdlib) | 22:11 |
| pabelanger | agree | 22:12 |
| jeblair | (i don't think we need to block on that -- just indicating that it's destined for the stdlib vs something else is good enough for us to iterate on it for now) | 22:12 |
| jeblair | jlk: ++ | 22:13 |
| jeblair | anything else folks should be aware of on this? | 22:13 |
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| jeblair | #info starting to organize "standard library" roles/playbooks in https://review.openstack.org/459066 | 22:14 |
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| jeblair | #topic Status updates: Github | 22:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: Github (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:15 | |
| jlk | oh hey, that's me. | 22:15 |
| jeblair | jlk, mordred, and I had a significant conversation about what the config syntax should look like last week | 22:16 |
| jlk | we had an excellent chat on Friday about the patch set, and I got some direction to move in | 22:16 |
| jeblair | (that should be archived by eavesdrop.openstack.org for posterity) | 22:16 |
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| jlk | I've made a lot of progress on that front, another pass of rebasing on top of the earlier changes | 22:16 |
| jlk | I should have the whole patch set ready to put up for review again later today if I'm lucky. | 22:17 |
| jeblair | neat! | 22:17 |
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| jeblair | i'll continue to try to review down the tip of teh stack (i've only gotten about 7 patches in so far), as well as loop back to the top as things are addressed | 22:17 |
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| jlk | and jamielennox is going to have an implementation of zv3 with our github patches running hooked up to github, so we can do some extra validation. | 22:17 |
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| jeblair | jlk, jamielennox: great! (caveat: there's still some known incorrect behavior and missing security bits, but i think you know that) | 22:18 |
| jlk | yup! | 22:19 |
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| jeblair | mordred has been chiming in on reviews too; if anyone else wants to review, please feel free to do so, and let me know if you want me to make sure we wait for your reviews before merging | 22:19 |
| jeblair | #info github series is being rebased and revised to address review comments | 22:20 |
| jeblair | anything else on this? | 22:21 |
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| jeblair | #topic Status updates: Bubblewrap | 22:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: Bubblewrap (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:21 | |
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| jeblair | SpamapS, pabelanger: can one of you fill us in on the latest here? | 22:22 |
| fungi | i heard we're no longer concerned about whether the ubuntu ppa system is (still) working | 22:23 |
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| pabelanger | mordred suggested we might use the PPA now that vhd-utils built over the weekend | 22:23 |
| jeblair | fungi: yeah, apparently it's working now? so ppas are an option? | 22:23 |
| SpamapS | I have nothing new to report | 22:23 |
| pabelanger | I am not sure if anybody is working on backporting that or not | 22:24 |
| SpamapS | if PPA's are in fact building, then I'd suggest we just use a PPA | 22:24 |
| fungi | so maybe uploading the source package from stretch or yakkety to rebuild would be an option | 22:24 |
| SpamapS | until xenial-backports gets bubblewrap | 22:24 |
| SpamapS | which I do expect to happen at some point | 22:24 |
| pabelanger | I can see about doing an upload, to my own PPA first | 22:24 |
| jeblair | okay, ppa until xenial-backports sounds like it's an option | 22:24 |
| fungi | i have a feeling pushing that source package into a ppa would "just work[tm]" since the claimed deps are already met on xenial | 22:25 |
| SpamapS | There's a script in ubuntu-dev-scripts that will do it for you even | 22:25 |
| pabelanger | So, has anybody seen this: https://launchpad.net/~ansible/+archive/ubuntu/bubblewrap | 22:25 |
| SpamapS | backportpackage -d xenial -u ppa:foo bubblewrap <-- that's all you need | 22:25 |
| jeblair | can we use the same ppa we use for vhd-util? | 22:25 |
| pabelanger | which is xenial package | 22:25 |
| pabelanger | maybe we can just work with ansible on it | 22:25 |
| jeblair | i have not seen that. | 22:26 |
| SpamapS | pabelanger: that's also under Ansible's control. So it may not match what infra wants. | 22:26 |
| pabelanger | ppa:ansible/bubblewrap | 22:26 |
| SpamapS | but it's likely exactly the same thing | 22:26 |
| pabelanger | right, but we could audit and copy into our PPA | 22:26 |
| jeblair | btw, are we positive that's really ansible? | 22:26 |
| fungi | i think we should create a new ppa under the same team | 22:27 |
| fungi | link at https://launchpad.net/~openstack-ci-core | 22:27 |
| jeblair | fungi: that seems safest and most stable | 22:27 |
| fungi | the existing ppa is "VHD Util" which is probably surprising if it contains a package set for bubblewrap | 22:27 |
| pabelanger | ya, we can check GPG keys first | 22:27 |
| SpamapS | literally make a PPA and run that backportpackage command.. that's all you need to do | 22:28 |
| fungi | #link https://launchpad.net/~openstack-ci-core create a new ppa here, adjacent to "VHD Util" | 22:28 |
| fungi | solution so simple, it's probably time to stop debating it until we find out there's a problem ;) | 22:28 |
| SpamapS | Can verify that the source package in the ansible PPA is a no-change backport | 22:28 |
| jeblair | should we call the ppa 'zuul-deps' or 'bublewrap'? | 22:28 |
| SpamapS | would be safe to just copy that into a PPA and we don't have to wait for build | 22:29 |
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| fungi | copying their ppa to one under our control seems fine to me. relying on their ppa indefinitely does not | 22:29 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: by "Can verify" do you mean that you have verified or that one is able to verify? | 22:30 |
| fungi | but we have the source package they used and assume the canonical build infrastructure is reliable, so can trust what's currently there at least | 22:30 |
| SpamapS | http://paste.openstack.org/show/608551/ | 22:30 |
| SpamapS | jeblair: have verified | 22:30 |
| jeblair | cool | 22:31 |
| fungi | also neat that they seem to already be using or otherwise want it | 22:31 |
| fungi | (assuming tat's really ansible) | 22:31 |
| jeblair | #action pabelanger create new ppa under openstack-ci-core and add bubblewrap to it; copy existing source package from ansible bubblewrap ppa. | 22:31 |
| jeblair | does that look correct ^? | 22:31 |
| fungi | sure | 22:32 |
| SpamapS | we don't, however, have any proof that launchpad.net/~ansible _is_ ansible. That GPG key is single-purpose for debs | 22:32 |
| SpamapS | but again, safe to copy the debs for speed | 22:32 |
| jeblair | yep. out of curiosity, i'll ask 'em next time i see 'em. :) | 22:32 |
| SpamapS | jeblair: indeed, tell them to sign their keys ;) | 22:32 |
| fungi | (and maybe also add contact info to that lp profile) | 22:33 |
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| pabelanger | I am guess it is driven by jenkins, based on SSH keys added to https://launchpad.net/~ansible | 22:33 |
| fungi | yup | 22:33 |
| fungi | that was my guess as well | 22:33 |
| jeblair | hopefully we can move this along quickly now -- we have patches we should be able to test as soon as the ppa is available | 22:33 |
| SpamapS | fungi: the GPG keys list security@ansible.com as their email, that counts. | 22:33 |
| SpamapS | jeblair: indeed! | 22:33 |
| SpamapS | I started poking at seccomp | 22:34 |
| jeblair | cool, this has been productive, thanks :) | 22:34 |
| pabelanger | I'm happy to give backportpackage a go too, if I can find it for fedora :) | 22:34 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: what does that entail? | 22:34 |
| fungi | SpamapS: yeah, i suppose openpgp uids are a relevant contact ;) | 22:34 |
| SpamapS | jeblair: stracing ansible-playbook and then locking down to just those syscalls | 22:34 |
| SpamapS | there's a tool to generate a binary file to feed into bwrap | 22:34 |
| fungi | though one of them lists security@, the other jenkins@ | 22:35 |
| fungi | pabelanger: you could debootstrap an ubuntu chroot... ;) | 22:35 |
| SpamapS | auditd will also log seccomp for you if you ask it to | 22:35 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: neat... think it'll be workable/useful? | 22:35 |
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| jeblair | (there's probably some number of file and network operations we'll have to allow in order to have useful untrusted playbooks) | 22:36 |
| pabelanger | fungi: it looks to be python. Going to clone source | 22:36 |
| SpamapS | jeblair: yes I do, it's pretty straight forward whitelisting of behavior. | 22:37 |
| jeblair | yay! | 22:37 |
| jeblair | anything else on this topic then? | 22:37 |
| SpamapS | (you can blacklist too, but that's for small minds, and we are HUGE minds.. YUGE) | 22:37 |
| jeblair | oy | 22:38 |
| jeblair | that's my cue | 22:38 |
| jeblair | #topic nodepool image testing spec (pabelanger) | 22:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nodepool image testing spec (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:38 | |
| pabelanger | so, I wanted to talk a little about if possible | 22:39 |
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| pabelanger | basically, over the last 3 weeks we worked in openstack-infra to remove puppet from our images | 22:39 |
| pabelanger | it became obviously pretty fast, it was a little painful to ensure our image didn't break as we started deleting puppet things | 22:40 |
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| pabelanger | I know this was a topic in the past, but was curious if we could maybe spend some time talking about this | 22:40 |
| pabelanger | as a operator, it is hard to stage images in nodepool before they go live | 22:41 |
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| pabelanger | and not sure how to make this easier moving forward | 22:41 |
| jeblair | #link nodepool image testing spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139598/ | 22:41 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: well, the *best* outcome would be gate testing of images, right? | 22:41 |
| jeblair | then we can stop problems before they start | 22:42 |
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| pabelanger | Right, that is something I am trying to do now. Hence my recent changes to project-config | 22:42 |
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| pabelanger | but, it would mean running nodepool dsvm against project-config, maybe? | 22:42 |
| clarkb | and tripleo and puppet openstack and osa and .... | 22:43 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: yep; probably with file restrictions since it's so heavyweight. or in experimental pipeline. | 22:43 |
| pabelanger | however, thinking of general zuul users, I am not sure if users will do that or expect some sort of audit in nodepool / zuul | 22:43 |
| jeblair | clarkb: i don't think we use tripleo to build images? | 22:43 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: i think many zuul users don't have nearly so complex images. to be fair, we're trying to have simpler images too. | 22:44 |
| clarkb | jeblair: the problem isn't the build failing though its tripleo failing when it runs on the image | 22:44 |
| SpamapS | If it's really really heavy weight, can also be done as a more stable-release paradigm.. let post-commit jobs test all the combos and tag good images when things stabilize. | 22:44 |
| clarkb | so just checking if dib works or not isn't going to get us much | 22:44 |
| SpamapS | s/post-commit/periodic/ | 22:44 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: that situation is pretty untenable from a post-image build testing situation as well. i think an image-validity check has to be relatively low cost. | 22:45 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yup I agree | 22:45 |
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| clarkb | problem is I don't know that such a thing exists. We could start with something arbitrary like jenkins and zuul users exist and then tack on things as we go | 22:45 |
| SpamapS | v3's secrets thing comes in handy here.. | 22:45 |
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| SpamapS | "it uploads and boots" | 22:46 |
| pabelanger | I think most of this could be covered by a pre-task in zuulv3, ensure directories exist, proper user permissions, etc from DIB creation. But, is that something we'd want all jobs to run? or just 1 time after we upload / launch a image | 22:46 |
| fungi | though that eats into your quota unless you set aside a separate tenant | 22:46 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: how does a pre-task help? | 22:46 |
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| pabelanger | jeblair: I might be thinking wrong, but a job will not fail is a pre-task does? | 22:47 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: or even make it part of the dib build itself? and inspect the chroot? | 22:47 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: right, it will run again. but it will fail the second and third times as well. | 22:47 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: and then the job will fail. | 22:47 |
| SpamapS | fungi: can be a very small flavor at least. | 22:47 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: I'd love to use the ansible chroot connection to audit, is we want to do that | 22:47 |
| fungi | something a little less error-prone than when we ran devstack smoke on new images before putting them into use ;) | 22:47 |
| adam_g | we've been embedding some basic validation checks into an elements post-install.d phase, so we can fail the build and prevent nodepool from uploading and using a broken image | 22:48 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: k, I wasn't sure if we limited on pre-task failures | 22:48 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: well, what i'm saying is that by the time zuul runs the job, if it's failing because the image is broken, there's no way to fix that. | 22:48 |
| jeblair | adam_g: what kind of things do you check? | 22:48 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: I don't know that you'd need to specify the tool. Just have a run stage in dib for checking things then each element can publish its own arbitrary checkers | 22:48 |
| fungi | adam_g: yeah, self-checking elements seem like a great idea | 22:48 |
| clarkb | or just use post-install.d | 22:49 |
| * clarkb catches up to adam_g | 22:49 | |
| adam_g | jeblair: atm just some things that have broken in recent DIB releases (a functioning python, specifically).. that zuul-cloner at least loads and spits its usage, etc. | 22:49 |
| jeblair | adam_g: good ideas | 22:49 |
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| adam_g | a proper validate-image.d or similar phase in DIB would be preferable | 22:50 |
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| adam_g | oh also, we then monitor nodepool image age and alert if we dont have an image newer than $foo, so we know when builds start failing | 22:50 |
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| SpamapS | adam_g: very easy to add phases | 22:50 |
| SpamapS | and I think it's a good ide | 22:51 |
| SpamapS | a | 22:51 |
| fungi | we also do test our dib elements in the nodepool integration job, so can easily reject changes which would cause images to fail such self-validation | 22:51 |
| SpamapS | maybe have those checks inside the chroot but after everything else including cleanup | 22:51 |
| clarkb | fungi: I don't think we do a full build with our elements, its minimal | 22:52 |
| pabelanger | So, if we want to do this pre commit, that is not a problem. I already have some thoughts / plans to help make project-config better. I mostly wanted to see if we want to add this functionality native into nodepool / zuul as an audit / testing stage | 22:53 |
| jeblair | clarkb: because of git clones? | 22:53 |
| fungi | clarkb: oh, well, i suppose we could require that at least those minimal elements pass their validation | 22:53 |
| pabelanger | then have operator either manually promote images or auto promote if the audit passed | 22:53 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: i feel like with our limited developer bandwidth at the moment, the best bang for the buck is gate jobs and dib validation. i think that nodepool image validation is workable and i'm not opposed to implemeting it (i think that spec was heading in a good direction), but from the openstack-infra operator perspective, i don't think it's critical to our workflow if we are able to do the other checks. | 22:53 |
| fungi | it does seem like something an industrious downstream consumer could contribute if they need it | 22:54 |
| pabelanger | fungi: yes, we can add nodepool-dsvm job to project-config, but full builds today are 1hr+ | 22:54 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: okay, that works for now. I'll work on this from openstack-infra POV today | 22:54 |
| clarkb | jeblair: our builds take like an hour right now with hot cache | 22:54 |
| clarkb | not sure how feasible a full build in integration job is as a rsult | 22:54 |
| pabelanger | if we drop cache-devstack / openstack-repos (what I am testing) it is about 20mins | 22:55 |
| fungi | again, though, if this is because of iterating over all 1.7k (or however many we're up to now) git repos to see whether they need to be updated, that's likely to get much better if we can drop git caches from our im ages with zuul v3 | 22:55 |
| jeblair | clarkb: i'd say 1 hour is in the realm of feasible, certainly for an experimental pipeline job. | 22:55 |
| clarkb | jeblair: it will be longer on test nodes with a cold cache | 22:55 |
| jeblair | clarkb: test nodes have a warm cache :) | 22:56 |
| pabelanger | sure, but today there is only 2 things that depend on openstack cached repos at build time, zuul-env and tempest-env | 22:56 |
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| pabelanger | which we could update to git clone from another source | 22:56 |
| fungi | we should probably look into moving the tempest-env addition to job runtime | 22:56 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: agreed, then the only issue becomes how important it is that we validate the cache on image builds (maybe it's not that important) | 22:57 |
| fungi | creating zuul-env at job runtime is more likely to be a catch-22 but maybe we make it stop requiring a local cache | 22:57 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: yes, so far, that hasn't been our issues | 22:57 |
| pabelanger | unless repo didn't mirror from gerrit to git.o.o properly | 22:58 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: yeah, i can get behind severing those deps and dropping the repo cache from the gate testing | 22:58 |
| jeblair | fungi: pabelanger's proposed change just clones master directly, which i think is reasonable. it's functionally the same as what we're doing now. | 22:58 |
| fungi | that totally brings the runtime into a reasonable realm for check jobs, in my opinion | 22:58 |
| jeblair | fungi: yeah, we're into the territory where we can run it on a wider variety of changes | 22:59 |
| clarkb | but if all we check is can it build we haven't done much to fix real problems? | 22:59 |
| clarkb | if something fails to build we continue to use old image happily | 22:59 |
| fungi | if the elements incorporate validation | 22:59 |
| pabelanger | next step would be post build auditing | 22:59 |
| fungi | i think was the assumption | 22:59 |
| clarkb | fungi: if elements incorporate validation we can likely even defer that to build time too | 22:59 |
| clarkb | for the same reason | 22:59 |
| clarkb | (though in check it will make review easier) | 23:00 |
| jeblair | or upload the image somewhere (as SpamapS suggested, or to a devstack, if we're really patient) | 23:00 |
| jeblair | we're out of time | 23:00 |
| fungi | well, if we defer validation to production build time (is that what you mean?) then we get to merge changes which break image builds | 23:00 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 23:00 |
| clarkb | fungi: yes but don't impact production | 23:00 |
| fungi | thanks jeblair! | 23:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 23:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 23:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon May 1 23:00:44 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-05-01-22.05.html | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-05-01-22.05.txt | 23:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-05-01-22.05.log.html | 23:00 |
| jeblair | continue in #openstack-infra if needed | 23:00 |
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