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| edleafe | #startmeeting nova_scheduler | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jun 26 14:00:11 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is edleafe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 14:00 |
| edleafe | Who's here today? | 14:00 |
| dtantsur | o/ | 14:00 |
| alex_xu | o/ | 14:00 |
| jaypipes | hola | 14:01 |
| *** lei-zh has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 14:01 | |
| edleafe | Pretty empty this morning - everyone can stretch out! | 14:01 |
| edleafe | #topic Specs & Reviews | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs & Reviews (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:02 | |
| * alex_xu lay down on the ground | 14:02 | |
| * jaypipes currently rebasing the placement-allocation-requests series | 14:02 | |
| jaypipes | running tests... | 14:02 |
| edleafe | I was out Friday, so I'm not as up-to-date on the status of many of these patches | 14:02 |
| edleafe | #link Allocation Candidates https://review.openstack.org/#/c/475448/ | 14:03 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: should be ready for review in a little while? | 14:03 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: yup. 15 minutes. | 14:03 |
| edleafe | kewl | 14:04 |
| edleafe | #link Nested Resources: series starting with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/415920/ | 14:04 |
| edleafe | Looks like there was some action on this | 14:04 |
| * bauzas waves | 14:04 | |
| * edleafe waves back | 14:05 | |
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| bauzas | yeah, I can review the nested RP series, but I thought it was needing allocation candidates series to be merged first? | 14:05 |
| bauzas | of course, we can merge some of the changes | 14:05 |
| bauzas | at least the ones related to the caching object in the compute service | 14:06 |
| edleafe | sure, but reviews to catch mistakes or clarify what the code is doing is always useful | 14:06 |
| jaypipes | bauzas, edleafe: nested resource providers needs to come after allocation requests, yes. | 14:07 |
| jaypipes | I've been delaying rebasing the n-r-p series. | 14:07 |
| alex_xu | so the goal in the release is allocation requets? | 14:08 |
| jaypipes | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/469147/ is a standalone change that would be great to merge. | 14:08 |
| jaypipes | alex_xu: no, the goal is allocation requests, placement claims, shared providers, traits and then nested providers if we get to them. | 14:08 |
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| edleafe | Heh, that was next up | 14:08 |
| edleafe | #link Delete all inventory: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/460147/ | 14:08 |
| alex_xu | jaypipes: ok...only one month left | 14:09 |
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| edleafe | oh wait - that's different | 14:09 |
| edleafe | oh wait - that's different | 14:09 |
| edleafe | doh! | 14:09 |
| jaypipes | alex_xu: yes, I know... | 14:09 |
| edleafe | #link Add UUID field to PciDevice Object https://review.openstack.org/#/c/469147/ | 14:10 |
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| bauzas | jaypipes: added to my review queue ^ | 14:11 |
| jaypipes | merci | 14:11 |
| edleafe | The last link I have on the agenda is | 14:12 |
| edleafe | #link Placement API ref docs: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:cd/placement-api-ref+status:open | 14:12 |
| edleafe | Anyone have any other specs or reviews to discuss? | 14:12 |
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| alex_xu | I have question about why we put resource-class into extra spec | 14:12 |
| edleafe | alex_xu: where else could we put it? | 14:13 |
| alex_xu | sounds like new functionality add to the API without Microversion, also think about what I can do for request traits | 14:13 |
| edleafe | AFAIK, extra_specs is not versioned | 14:14 |
| alex_xu | #link request traits in Nova https://review.openstack.org/#/c/468797/ | 14:14 |
| edleafe | And it's not part of the defined API. It's part of the Flavor object | 14:14 |
| alex_xu | yea, I guess one of extra_specs problems is not versioned | 14:16 |
| edleafe | Also, a flavor is not supposed to change | 14:16 |
| edleafe | If you associate a trait like SSD with a an existing flavor, now you get something different | 14:16 |
| edleafe | even though you are requesting the same flavor | 14:17 |
| alex_xu | but the user have no way to know the current nova deployment whether support traits or not without microversion | 14:17 |
| edleafe | alex_xu: I hate flavors, but until we can totally re-work them, we're stuck | 14:17 |
| bauzas | I thought we agreed on that a couple of releases earlier :) | 14:18 |
| edleafe | what do you mean about a user needing to know about traits? | 14:18 |
| alex_xu | bauzas: yea, I try to know the orignal reason which I missed... | 14:18 |
| bauzas | there are 3 ways to inject quantitative or qualitative requests | 14:19 |
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| edleafe | alex_xu: the use case we're trying to handle is requesting an Ironic machine | 14:19 |
| bauzas | 1/ is the image, which is user-based | 14:19 |
| bauzas | 2/ is using hints, which is user-based and per instance | 14:19 |
| bauzas | 3/ is using flavor, which is admin-based | 14:19 |
| alex_xu | bauzas: sorry, actually my question is why we add an new attributes to the flavor instead of extra specs | 14:20 |
| bauzas | since admins manage their capacity, it's understandable for them to propose flavors that can match their clouds | 14:20 |
| alex_xu | s/why/why no/ | 14:20 |
| alex_xu | ...s/why no/why not/.. | 14:20 |
| bauzas | alex_xu: why we use extra specs instead of Flavor attributes ? | 14:20 |
| bauzas | because of the interoperability between clouds, I'd say | 14:21 |
| alex_xu | bauzas: this spec add resource class into the extra spec http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/pike/approved/custom-resource-classes-in-flavors.html | 14:21 |
| edleafe | alex_xu: yes, that's the spec I was working from | 14:22 |
| bauzas | I don't disagree with that | 14:22 |
| alex_xu | so...that won't be a interoperability problem? | 14:22 |
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| bauzas | I'm really sorry, I'm not sure I'm getting your concern with the above spec | 14:23 |
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| edleafe | alex_xu: I don't think anyone *likes* doing it this way. It's just the least terrible way, given what we have to work with | 14:23 |
| alex_xu | ah sorry, my question is that why we didn't add new attributes like flavor.resources in the API instead of adding resources into the extra spec in that proposal. | 14:24 |
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| edleafe | alex_xu: see the 'Alternatives' section of that spec | 14:24 |
| alex_xu | oh... | 14:25 |
| alex_xu | looks like is for ironic transion | 14:28 |
| edleafe | alex_xu: yeah, if we can get Ironic working with placement this cycle, that's a big win | 14:29 |
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| alex_xu | ok, I guess in longterm, we want to get those out of flavor | 14:30 |
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| edleafe | long term we want to burn flavors to the ground | 14:31 |
| alex_xu | still sounds we add new feature to the API without microversion. or we would say that is feature we didn't support offically... | 14:32 |
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| edleafe | Well, it's not an API change; it's a flavor change | 14:33 |
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| alex_xu | ok | 14:33 |
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| edleafe | Well, it seems like we've already been here, so let's make it official | 14:34 |
| edleafe | #topic Open discussion | 14:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:34 | |
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| edleafe | Anything else to discuss? | 14:35 |
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| edleafe | Going once... | 14:36 |
| bauzas | save me time for homeworking with my daughter :) | 14:36 |
| edleafe | :) | 14:37 |
| edleafe | Going twice... | 14:37 |
| edleafe | #endmeeting | 14:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:37 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jun 26 14:37:25 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:37 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2017/nova_scheduler.2017-06-26-14.00.html | 14:37 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2017/nova_scheduler.2017-06-26-14.00.txt | 14:37 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2017/nova_scheduler.2017-06-26-14.00.log.html | 14:37 |
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| leong | #startmeeting product_working_group | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jun 26 21:01:23 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is leong. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'product_working_group' | 21:01 |
| leong | #topic Rollcall | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rollcall (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:01 | |
| leong | anyone here for PWG meeting? | 21:01 |
| annabelleB | here! | 21:01 |
| leong | hi annabelleB | 21:02 |
| leong | i forgot to send out meeting reminder... wondering if folks will be joining today.. | 21:02 |
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| leong | let's wait for a couple minutes and see if we have quorum | 21:02 |
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| annabelleB | sounds good! | 21:03 |
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| leong | anyone here for PWG meeting? | 21:05 |
| rockyg | o/ | 21:05 |
| leong | hi rockyg | 21:05 |
| leong | still waiting for folks to join in.... | 21:06 |
| rockyg | Hey! | 21:06 |
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| rockyg | seems the week is getting off to a slow start | 21:08 |
| leong | i guess so... | 21:08 |
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| leong | shamail and arkady won't join today | 21:08 |
| AndyU | Will we be having a meeting? | 21:09 |
| leong | 9 min past the hour... so far i believe we have leong, rockyg AndyU and annabelleB | 21:09 |
| rockyg | what about mrhillsman ? | 21:09 |
| AndyU | I just joined | 21:09 |
| mrhillsman | o/ | 21:09 |
| rockyg | We've got 5! | 21:10 |
| leong | hi mrhillsman | 21:10 |
| leong | i suppose we can get started :-) | 21:10 |
| mrhillsman | hey, overly busy week unfortunately hehe | 21:10 |
| rockyg | Yeah, life happens when you're having work | 21:10 |
| leong | haha | 21:10 |
| leong | #link Agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/product-team | 21:10 |
| leong | #topic Review of action items | 21:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of action items (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:11 | |
| leong | anyone got a chance to look at the moderator guide? | 21:11 |
| leong | i think arkady did. :-) | 21:12 |
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| rockyg | oops. Nope. Running slow. Got a sinus infection. | 21:12 |
| mrhillsman | yep, will make some changes today | 21:12 |
| leong | cool... | 21:13 |
| leong | i haven't send the email for teleconf option for midcycle yet... | 21:13 |
| leong | i presume that we will not have F2F this time... | 21:14 |
| leong | if we want to host a telecon, we also need to decide a date and time | 21:14 |
| leong | and also need to figure out how to run the teleconf across timezone | 21:15 |
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| leong | any comments? | 21:15 |
| rockyg | We might consider something like two hours at US beginning of day and 2 hours at the end. Do it for a couple of days? | 21:16 |
| leong | that can be an option | 21:16 |
| leong | #info Midcycle Teleconf Option 1: 2 hours at US beginning of day and 2 hours at the end, run for couple of days | 21:17 |
| AndyU | Maybe we could start by trying out the webmeeting format now to close up some of these action items that have been dragging on? Such as take an hour together to do a live review/edit of wiki pages? | 21:17 |
| rockyg | ++ | 21:18 |
| leong | AndyU: +1 i think that will be part of Agenda | 21:18 |
| leong | we need to decide the format/time first, then can work on agenda | 21:18 |
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| leong | i will send the email on this | 21:19 |
| AndyU | Oh... and I just remembered I said I'd add the etherpad template to mrhillsmans's moderator guide... | 21:19 |
| leong | #action leong to email about teleconf midcycle and format | 21:19 |
| leong | #topic Development Proposals | 21:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Development Proposals (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:20 | |
| leong | as per last meeting, we need to build a plan to breakdown the proposal readiness assessment | 21:20 |
| leong | do we want to take some time today to brainstorm a bit? | 21:21 |
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| AndyU | I'm game | 21:21 |
| leong | so in general, i suppose the goal is to derive a "readiness assessment checklist" | 21:23 |
| rockyg | Yes. | 21:23 |
| rockyg | But what should be on it? Will the gaps analysis need to have been done? | 21:24 |
| rockyg | Certainly use cases should be there. | 21:24 |
| AndyU | We have 4 phases to a 'Development Proposal'. The first phase produces an artifact (what do we call it?) according to the dev proposal template. What are the steps that the artifact goes through? | 21:24 |
| leong | rockyg: i think we are refering to the "proposal".. gap-analysis is the phase after a proposal been accepted | 21:25 |
| AndyU | for example, there is a WIP stage, then what to we call the stage after that and what are the criteria for moving to it? | 21:25 |
| rockyg | Ah, thanks. | 21:25 |
| leong | rockyg: so the "readiness" is to make sure that such proposal is (1) the impact of it (2) valid to move forward, (3) enough resource? (4) sufficient info to move into gap-analysis phase | 21:26 |
| AndyU | Right. I look at the Phases as (1) Requirements Definition (2) Gap Analysis (3) Implementation Planning (4) Development/Delivery | 21:26 |
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| mrhillsman | why not call it a blueprint | 21:27 |
| mrhillsman | or is proposal == blueprint | 21:28 |
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| mrhillsman | or is that zooming in too far at this point | 21:29 |
| leong | mrhillsman: if you refer the standard openstack blueprint. then a proposal != blueprint | 21:29 |
| leong | mrhillsman: a proposal potentially can generate multiple blueprint | 21:29 |
| rockyg | Yeah. At this point, it's use cases and/or requirements | 21:29 |
| AndyU | Each 'phase' has an Artifact that needs to be produced such as the 'Dev proposal' thing doc, the Gap Anaysis doc, the implementation plan and 4th is the actual delivered code | 21:29 |
| rockyg | So BP to detailed | 21:29 |
| leong | mrhillsman: however, it can be a blueprint with respect to PWG | 21:30 |
| rockyg | too detailed. | 21:30 |
| AndyU | And the community is moving away from BP's to Storyboard 'Stories' right? | 21:30 |
| mrhillsman | i guess it makes sense to you different terminology; i'm not thinking of overlap with standard openstack def | 21:30 |
| rockyg | At least in OpenStack parlance as was pointed out. | 21:30 |
| mrhillsman | s/you/use | 21:30 |
| leong | the key thing is not about calling it blueprint or proposal... the key thing is need to determine "is such proposal ready to move forward" | 21:31 |
| mrhillsman | yeah, going to that | 21:31 |
| AndyU | the phase one doc will contain multiple use cases which would likelely become multiople blueprints later on | 21:31 |
| mrhillsman | so back to the readiness assessment | 21:31 |
| rockyg | Implementation plan could be: Spec (referring to multiple BPs and/or RFEs) or BP (smaller, single task) or RFE (like BP but filed in the bug tracker) | 21:31 |
| mrhillsman | i think thinking backwards will help | 21:32 |
| mrhillsman | if it is moving to gap analysis, what does it require to be there | 21:32 |
| rockyg | So, review of Use cases. Do they cover the workflow/tasks encompassed by the description? | 21:32 |
| AndyU | right. And I think there are steps to get there. Like going from (1) WIP to (2) PWG Analysis? to (3) Stakeholdering with impacted people/projects in the community? What says it's been sufficiently stakeholdered and all key players agree? | 21:34 |
| leong | mrhillsman: +1 | 21:35 |
| leong | so we need to define a checklist for that | 21:35 |
| rockyg | AndyU, +1 | 21:35 |
| mrhillsman | i am looking at #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ProductTeam/Development_Proposals | 21:35 |
| AndyU | yes, I think so, high level at least | 21:35 |
| mrhillsman | and i see #link https://github.com/openstack/development-proposals/blob/master/development-proposal-template.rst | 21:36 |
| mrhillsman | unless i am wrong, something in the template is the first step, and there are mandatory sections, all looks good functionally | 21:37 |
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| mrhillsman | what qualifies the information i put in that template? | 21:37 |
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| mrhillsman | if that is a review by the pwg, what is the criteria for the sections? | 21:37 |
| AndyU | Can we agree that before phase 1 can go to phase 2 (gap analysis) there should be stakeholdering and concensus among key impacted players over that phase 1 proposal/requirements? | 21:37 |
| leong | the question is: how details the "content itself" must be include before we call it "ready" | 21:38 |
| mrhillsman | exactly | 21:38 |
| leong | AndyU: +1 | 21:38 |
| leong | hey.. i created this etherpad... can we collect these points there? | 21:38 |
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| leong | #link Proposal Readiness Checklist: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PWG-development-proposal-readiness | 21:38 |
| mrhillsman | was just thinking the same | 21:39 |
| AndyU | Does the PWG seek to get it in good order (initial triaging) before pulling in stakeholders for a boader review? | 21:39 |
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| rockyg | Yes. We do first vetting. Or should. | 21:40 |
| leong | AndyU: i think that can be part of the role of PWG .. | 21:40 |
| mrhillsman | i want to +1 but battling the scaling with code vs people in the back of my mind | 21:40 |
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| leong | to me, all proposal must have "sufficient level" of details so that such proposal can be derived into specific bp/spec for each openstack projects | 21:42 |
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| leong | a proposal cannot be too "broad" , having a 10000 footview is good as an abstract but is not sufficient to dive down into feature implementation | 21:43 |
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| rockyg | Agreed. So, consider each as if they were requesting a whole new set of functionality. Have all the requirements been covered? Then, the gap analysis will identify what already exists that meet the new funtionality needs. | 21:44 |
| rockyg | So, a development proposal should not assume any of the funtionality already exists. This is the requirements phase. What we need, not how. | 21:44 |
| AndyU | Leong +1 | 21:45 |
| leong | rockyg: +1 | 21:45 |
| AndyU | Right. Keep solutioning out of the requirements phase | 21:45 |
| leong | rockyg: gap analysis will identify what already existing and what is not | 21:45 |
| rockyg | Right. What I said. | 21:46 |
| leong | rockyg: +1 Proposal is to determine "what" | 21:46 |
| rockyg | I just didn't add the negative. | 21:46 |
| rockyg | ;-) | 21:46 |
| leong | lol | 21:46 |
| AndyU | Phase 1 would seek to define the problem and what is desired in order to alleviate it (Problem/Requirments). Then get buy-in from all key stakeholders (and or revise until you do). | 21:47 |
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| rockyg | ++ | 21:48 |
| leong | also, it will be good if these "readiness checklist" can be quantifiable... | 21:49 |
| rockyg | So, key items here: Complete problem description but not to include extraneous issues. | 21:49 |
| AndyU | I think you would not want to move on to Gap Analyisis until after all the key stakeholders agree on the phase 1 proposal. Need to have that concensus/buy-in | 21:49 |
| rockyg | Comprehensive requirements. Does it have to be in the form of use cases only, or can they take other forms, too? | 21:50 |
| mrhillsman | is there another word that can be used besides requirement(s)? i know it is semantics, but at this phase requirements are not known, though there is/are/could be desired outcome(s) | 21:50 |
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| rockyg | In some proposals, the requirments may not be known. In others, they are. | 21:51 |
| rockyg | There are also a whole slew of implied requirements that emerge out of the general requirements or use cases. | 21:51 |
| AndyU | I think in phase 1, we need to understand that the "requirements" are more like "business requirements". They're not specifying any technical solution yet (how), jus the What | 21:52 |
| rockyg | AndyU, ++ Good point. Biz req's | 21:52 |
| leong | i tried to put the above discussion point in the etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PWG-development-proposal-readiness | 21:53 |
| leong | we can later summarized them and hopefully generate a checklist :) | 21:53 |
| AndyU | Leong - good idea to start the etherpad | 21:54 |
| rockyg | ++ | 21:54 |
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| mrhillsman | ++ | 21:54 |
| leong | that gives other folks to express their points offline after this meeting as well :) | 21:55 |
| leong | we have 5 mins to the hour | 21:55 |
| leong | that's a good brainstorming session | 21:55 |
| rockyg | agreed | 21:56 |
| leong | please keep contributing to that etherpad and we can summarize that next week or so | 21:56 |
| AndyU | Does this link work for you all? https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1FWuIModYuIxNOYFne7y-yfF70UDKOMQ2JEUeEwTtt20/edit#slide=id.p14 | 21:56 |
| leong | AndyU: works for me | 21:56 |
| rockyg | It does when I'm not on the corp net ;-) | 21:57 |
| leong | AndyU: but you might want to double check if you "share with specific person" or "share with EVERYONE" | 21:57 |
| AndyU | ok, good. I offer that as a way to help conceptualize the different phases and how they connect to community cycles | 21:57 |
| leong | rockyg: that seems like your corp firewall/proxy issue :) | 21:57 |
| mrhillsman | works for me | 21:57 |
| AndyU | I selected shared with anyone who has the link | 21:57 |
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| leong | #action all to continue brainstorming proposal readiness on the etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PWG-development-proposal-readiness | 21:58 |
| AndyU | I'll make it group editable | 21:58 |
| AndyU | #link https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1FWuIModYuIxNOYFne7y-yfF70UDKOMQ2JEUeEwTtt20/edit#slide=id.p14 | 21:58 |
| annabelleB | works for me | 21:58 |
| leong | we shall continue the proposal conversation next week | 21:58 |
| leong | #topic open | 21:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: product_working_group)" | 21:58 | |
| leong | does anyone has any open? | 21:59 |
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| mrhillsman | nothing here | 21:59 |
| leong | alright.. good conversation! | 22:00 |
| leong | #endmeeting | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jun 26 22:00:18 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-06-26-21.01.html | 22:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-06-26-21.01.txt | 22:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/product_working_group/2017/product_working_group.2017-06-26-21.01.log.html | 22:00 |
| AndyU | bye all! | 22:00 |
| jeblair | any zuul folks around? | 22:00 |
| clarkb | hello | 22:00 |
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| Shrews | o/ | 22:01 |
| * mordred waves to jeblair | 22:01 | |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting zuul | 22:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jun 26 22:02:54 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zuul' | 22:02 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Zuul | 22:03 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-06-12-22.04.html | 22:03 |
| jeblair | #topic Status updates: Standard job library | 22:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: Standard job library (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:03 | |
| jlk | o/ | 22:04 |
| jeblair | i don't think we've made substantial progress on this since last meeting, though pabelanger did do a lot of work to get gearman running with ssl which we will need for secrets support | 22:04 |
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| jeblair | mordred and i are planning on pushing pretty hard on this in the next week or two, i believe | 22:05 |
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| jeblair | once we get going, hopefully we can get the bonnyci folks, and software factory too, looking at the shared jobs repo | 22:06 |
| Shrews | ++ | 22:06 |
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| jeblair | anything else to add on this? | 22:06 |
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| jlk | Ready to review! :) | 22:08 |
| jeblair | #topic Status updates: Documentation | 22:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: Documentation (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:08 | |
| jeblair | i did a lot of work on documentation over the past week | 22:09 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/463328 | 22:09 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/475928 | 22:09 |
| mordred | yah. them's a lot of words | 22:09 |
| jeblair | those are the biggest changes, but they are at the top of a stack. | 22:09 |
| jlk | I just spent a significant chunk of today (re)reading the first one. | 22:10 |
| SpamapS | very excited to see docs starting to form | 22:10 |
| mordred | ++ | 22:10 |
| mordred | me too | 22:10 |
| Shrews | i LOVE when others write much needed documentation | 22:10 |
| jeblair | the whole stack is ready for review, and it was green earlier today, though i merged tristanC's config default change which conflicts with some of them. they will be easy to fix, so expect new revs tomorrow. | 22:10 |
| jeblair | i know there's still a lot more to do (especially we need more examples, some of which should be in-line, some of which should be appendices) | 22:10 |
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| jeblair | and i think there's still some polish that could happen on higher-level overview stuff | 22:11 |
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| * Shrews read that as "Polish" | 22:11 | |
| jeblair | but i'm hoping that's enough of a skeleton for us to build on (i mean, it's more than a skeleton, it is pretty substantial, but you get the idea) | 22:11 |
| jeblair | Shrews: reverse polish? | 22:11 |
| jlk | jeblair: hopefully you can refrain from rebasing the changes, right? So that sub-patchset level comparisons can still be used if/when you make changes? | 22:11 |
| jeblair | jlk: i will need to rebase most of the stack in order to fix the conflicts, but i will do a two-step rebase to make it easier | 22:12 |
| jeblair | jlk: i'll rebase without changes first, and annotate that so you can ignore that inter-patchset diff | 22:12 |
| jlk | kk | 22:12 |
| jeblair | jlk: then i'll fix the conflicts in its own chaneg | 22:13 |
| jeblair | maybe. if possible. | 22:13 |
| jeblair | if i can't, i'll just make sure that i only change the minimum to fix conflicts in the rebase. | 22:13 |
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| jlk | appreciated | 22:14 |
| jeblair | i've tried to build a narrative structure in each of the user/admin guides so we're sort of taking users or admins through a learning process. | 22:14 |
| jeblair | i'm sure it's not fully there yet, but that's what i was aiming for | 22:15 |
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| jlk | it's a good read | 22:15 |
| jlk | They're good words, Jom. | 22:16 |
| jeblair | i'm very eager to land these asap, and then resume our practice of changing docs with code. :) | 22:16 |
| mordred | yes. this will be quite nice | 22:16 |
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| * Shrews will review Jom's words tomorrow | 22:17 | |
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| jeblair | the second change is all kinds of reorg, much of which changes again later. i don't know how to make that better, sorry. | 22:18 |
| jeblair | also, keep in mind that the docs job renders everything, so folks may enjoy reading the final rendered form in later changes. :) | 22:18 |
| jeblair | i've consulted it several times today | 22:19 |
| jeblair | anything else? | 22:19 |
| clarkb | if you pull the second change and look at it locally I think git itself might be able to better show you the file moves? | 22:19 |
| clarkb | maybe not | 22:19 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: yeah, i'm not sure. i took notes while writing it. :| | 22:21 |
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| jeblair | #topic Status updates: Github parity | 22:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: Github parity (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:22 | |
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| jeblair | jlk: do you have any outstanding changes related to this? | 22:23 |
| jlk | There are a couple open. | 22:23 |
| jlk | Depends-On for github, and a fix to support push events better (non pull-request) | 22:23 |
| jlk | I also noticed while reading through docs that we could do a better job of supporting statsd metrics in the github driver | 22:24 |
| jeblair | good point; now's probably a good time to add that | 22:24 |
| jlk | Oh, and Depends-On is partial, it does not do the helpful thing of back-searching to discover needed-by changes to re-enqueue. | 22:24 |
| jlk | the back searching is going to be limited by what github supports in search, as we discussed at AnsibleFest. | 22:25 |
| jlk | We might be able to get partially there just by checking our own cache of change information, but that could lead to non-deterministic behavior. | 22:25 |
| jeblair | yeah, we still need to decide how to handle that. we brainstormed some ideas about that; i think our choices are roughly: (a) don't support it; (b) move depends-on into pull request messages rather than commits; (c) perform some kind of local memoization so we just ask ourselves for the info | 22:26 |
| jeblair | (c) is growing on me | 22:26 |
| jeblair | the amount of data we would need to keep is tiny, i think. | 22:26 |
| mordred | I believe b and c are better outcomes than a | 22:26 |
| jlk | C feels fairly easy to implement, if we ignore lost cache during restarts. | 22:26 |
| jamielennox | c is useful as we should know, but aren't we already doing (b) | 22:26 |
| clarkb | bigger problem is probably making sure that you've collected all the data right? | 22:26 |
| clarkb | for c | 22:27 |
| jeblair | jlk: i think we can have the scheduler go ahead and store the data on disk to persist between restarts. | 22:27 |
| jamielennox | i don't think it makes sense to have depends-on in commit messages for github | 22:27 |
| mordred | clarkb: well - the only thing that could be blocked on a depends-on is a previously-gotten event | 22:27 |
| jlk | clarkb: so far, we are. Every change we runtime cache we grab every commit message of every commit on the change. | 22:27 |
| mordred | ah - different question. jlk's answer is better than mine | 22:27 |
| jlk | jamielennox: you prefer that they be read from pull request comments instead? | 22:28 |
| mordred | I thought we did not get an event when a PR summary changes? | 22:28 |
| jamielennox | i thought we were doing from the pull request body, i mean you have to merge the full PR | 22:28 |
| jlk | I'll have to test. | 22:28 |
| jamielennox | but not comments on a PR | 22:29 |
| clarkb | jlk: right but hat happens when you take a 4 hours downtime and github changes a bunch? | 22:29 |
| mordred | btw - I think we should do c even if we do b - because gh rate-limiting means if we can avoid the extra query it would be valuable | 22:29 |
| jlk | well.... lets take a step back here | 22:29 |
| clarkb | or are you saying that its ok because next eent you'd just repopulate complete cache? | 22:29 |
| jlk | clarkb: (yes that) | 22:29 |
| mordred | ++ to that | 22:29 |
| mordred | if there's a zuul downtime people are going to need to recheck anyway | 22:30 |
| jlk | If we listen to jamielennox , and shift the data source to pull comments | 22:30 |
| jeblair | (or admin enqueue events or something) | 22:30 |
| jlk | we can avoid some of this problem | 22:30 |
| mordred | well- I think pull comments are the wrong place - pull summary would be the more similar place, no? | 22:30 |
| jlk | (it'll introduce some new problems, but not insurmountable) | 22:30 |
| jamielennox | mordred: right, not arbitrary comments added to the PR | 22:31 |
| mordred | summary goes into merge commit message | 22:31 |
| jamielennox | just the summary | 22:31 |
| mordred | jamielennox: ++ | 22:31 |
| jlk | hah, well, okay | 22:31 |
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| mordred | I thought we did not get events when that updates? | 22:31 |
| jlk | yes, we'd just have to be aware when that changs. | 22:31 |
| jlk | es | 22:31 |
| jlk | one sec | 22:31 |
| jamielennox | not sure | 22:31 |
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| jamielennox | also, it seems right to me on the PR, but i'm used to gerrit so all my PRs are one commit long | 22:31 |
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| jamielennox | but there are some great/shocking examples of 200 commits to a PR that i think mean PR is about the only place they make sense | 22:32 |
| jlk | Changing the PR summary generates a comment event with an action of "edited" | 22:32 |
| mordred | cool. so we can react to that and notice a depends-on has been added or removed | 22:32 |
| jlk | sure, we'd just have to ensure we're only looking at the "special" comment | 22:33 |
| jlk | which is the PR summary | 22:33 |
| jeblair | jamielennox: i think the behavior is that if any of those 200 events have a depends-on footer, then the pr depends on that. but putting it in the commit lets you say "this commit depends on this functionality", and that's something that will transit through multiple git repos, etc. it's a property of the commit, rather than the (somewhat more transient) pull request. | 22:33 |
| mordred | jeblair: yah - I think I'm coming to the other pov on that ... for github users, the PR is the unit of work, not the commit - removing a depends-on footer if it stops being true would also become potentially hard | 22:34 |
| mordred | for folks who do not rebase their branches but instead push new patches on top of a branch | 22:34 |
| clarkb | especially since old commits and comments go away when you rebase right? | 22:34 |
| jamielennox | yea, ok, i see it's useful to reference it in the commit that uses it. but everything else we do is via PR, like you can't address a commit in a PR like BonnyCI/zuul#32@1 so your PR is really your unit in GH | 22:34 |
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| jlk | The PR Summary is implemented as the first comment of the PR, we'd have to identify this and make it "special" | 22:34 |
| jamielennox | jlk: there's nothing that identifies the PR body as special at all in an event? | 22:35 |
| mordred | clarkb: old commits do - old comments stay around | 22:35 |
| jlk | not that I've seen :( | 22:35 |
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| clarkb | mordred: only top level comments though right? | 22:36 |
| jlk | ugh | 22:36 |
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| mordred | clarkb: hrm. I thought in-line comments also stuck around and were marked as "for a previous revision" with a red x | 22:36 |
| jlk | haha | 22:36 |
| jlk | guys you're on a tangent | 22:36 |
| mordred | we are indeed | 22:36 |
| jlk | those are "different" as they're "review comments" | 22:36 |
| jlk | not to be confused with Pull Request Review comments | 22:36 |
| jlk | There's comments to the PR which you see on the front page | 22:37 |
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| mordred | ah | 22:37 |
| jlk | there's review comments which are made in-line with the source code | 22:37 |
| jlk | and then there's Pull Request Review comments | 22:37 |
| jamielennox | which GH implemented as a special type of issue, which confuses this more - but digression | 22:37 |
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| jlk | From the webhook data I'm looking at, I don't even see an identifier for _which_ comment was edited. | 22:38 |
| mordred | jlk: you can edit comments other than the summary? | 22:38 |
| jlk | yes | 22:38 |
| jamielennox | jlk: so you could still say a comment was editted on this PR and fetch it again? not greatest but it would catch it | 22:38 |
| jlk | http://paste.openstack.org/show/613760/ is hte payload | 22:39 |
| mordred | oh wow. you really can edit comments. that's so weird to me | 22:39 |
| jlk | jamielennox: yeah, we could fetch and then re-examine the "first" comment. | 22:39 |
| jeblair | okay, so there's some support for moving this to PR summary. how about we dive deeper into this and make sure that doing so is both workable and a solution to the needed-by problem, and regroup? | 22:40 |
| jamielennox | hmm, crazy that the PR body is only considered a comment | 22:40 |
| mordred | ++ | 22:40 |
| mordred | to both jeblair and jamielennox | 22:40 |
| jamielennox | ++ | 22:40 |
| jlk | ++ | 22:40 |
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| jeblair | jlk: okay if i action you with that? | 22:41 |
| jlk | worksforme | 22:41 |
| jeblair | #action jlk look into moving depends-on to pull-request summary to see if it is both workable and a solution to the needed-by problem | 22:41 |
| jeblair | cool, thanks.. let's move on to make sure we don't run out of time | 22:42 |
| jeblair | #topic Status updates: (web) console streaming | 22:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status updates: (web) console streaming (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:42 | |
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| Shrews | oh, hey. that's an agenda item now | 22:42 |
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| Shrews | not sure what to say except that i've hit a roadblock and had to swallow my pride and ask for help from the original author and Dear Leader | 22:44 |
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| * mordred is also going to help swear at things | 22:44 | |
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| clarkb | have the problems been described anywhere yet? | 22:45 |
| Shrews | clarkb: not publicly, no | 22:45 |
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| jeblair | hopefully we can figure out in the next couple days if the problems are "merely technical" or something more fundamental that would cause us to re-evaluate our approach | 22:46 |
| jeblair | i think we're at the "this doesn't seem to work; not sure what's going on" stage | 22:46 |
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| Shrews | yeah. if it's a stupid programmer (aka, me) error, we can move forward. if it's an architectural thing, then public input may be needed | 22:46 |
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| jeblair | i'm going to skip some topics and move on to... | 22:48 |
| jeblair | #topic Removing py2 support from v3 nodepool (Shrews) | 22:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Removing py2 support from v3 nodepool (Shrews) (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:48 | |
| SpamapS | One thing I've never liked about async "futures" style coding is that it is often just hard to see wtf is going on inside the machine. | 22:48 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/476683 | 22:48 |
| SpamapS | (that was regarding the web streaming) | 22:48 |
| Shrews | mordred and I were discussing https://review.openstack.org/476683 this morning, and it came up that maybe we should stop supporting py2 in feature/zuulv3 nodepool | 22:48 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: [me too; part of why i want to keep that kind of code in its own sandbox] | 22:49 |
| mordred | yah - if we don't support py2 in zuulv3 of zuul, I'm not sure why we should support it in nodepool - of course, we need to start running infra's nodepool in v3 before we drop it | 22:49 |
| clarkb | Shrews: mordred my concern with that right now is python35 integration test does not work on nodepool | 22:49 |
| mordred | clarkb: that's a great concern! | 22:50 |
| clarkb | I think we need to get the testing solid on python3 first then make that assertion | 22:50 |
| mordred | clarkb: we sohuld, you know fix that :) | 22:50 |
| mordred | ++ | 22:50 |
| clarkb | because right now python2 is what works based on testing | 22:50 |
| Shrews | clarkb: that's a very valid point | 22:50 |
| jeblair | clarkb: the devstack one, or the zuul one? | 22:50 |
| clarkb | (I think it may work on feature branch but not master) | 22:50 |
| clarkb | jeblair: the devstack one | 22:50 |
| mordred | oh. yah - I only mean on feature/ | 22:50 |
| clarkb | mordred: so I think you have to do both at the same time actually | 22:51 |
| mordred | but we should _definitely_ make sure testing is solid before doing anything | 22:51 |
| clarkb | and the reason for that is we have a habit of fixing things on feature first then maybe backporting to master | 22:51 |
| clarkb | and you can't backport anymore if different pythons are supported | 22:51 |
| Shrews | devstack, from what i've seen. weird errors, like: http://logs.openstack.org/23/476223/2/check/gate-dsvm-nodepool-py35-src-nv/af51324/logs/devstacklog.txt.gz#_2017-06-26_17_03_17_402 | 22:51 |
| clarkb | Shrews: ya it has to do with setuptools and permissions and stuff I think | 22:52 |
| clarkb | Shrews: its good python fun | 22:52 |
| mordred | so - let's maybe reframe this to "before we release nodepool v3, we should drop python2 support" - largely because I dont' think we want to grow new python2 based users that makes it hard to drop support | 22:52 |
| Shrews | mordred: yes, that's a good way to put it. A goal to move towards | 22:52 |
| mordred | and between now and then, we should definitely make sure that all the python3 testing is solid and that infra is running nodepool v3 on python3 | 22:52 |
| mordred | since those are both just good ideas for sanity and consistency | 22:53 |
| jeblair | mordred: i'm okay with that, though i note that it doesn't address the immediate need, which was driven by "we want to land some code in v3 that is much simpler (like, a hundred lines plus an external dependency) with py3 | 22:53 |
| SpamapS | does this maybe up the priority of shimming? | 22:53 |
| mordred | jeblair: indeed | 22:53 |
| Shrews | jeblair: to be fair, i *really* like harlowja's change, but it isn't something that's needed RIGHT NOW. | 22:54 |
| clarkb | I'm ok with doing it I just think it has to be done on both branches together with working tests | 22:54 |
| clarkb | Shrews: also that, it may save like a second on shutdown | 22:54 |
| harlowja | i save all the seconds, lol | 22:54 |
| clarkb | not super urgent but a nice code cleanliness thing | 22:54 |
| Shrews | well, could be several seconds, but yeah | 22:54 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: i think the main gains of shimming were load testing plus ease of transition for openstack-infra; so i don't see this as driving a further need for that. | 22:55 |
| SpamapS | Oh I thought maybe shimming would let us get onto feature/ sooner. | 22:55 |
| SpamapS | so we wouldn't be backporting so much | 22:55 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: oh, hrm. i guess it would? | 22:56 |
| jeblair | like, we could go ahead and merge feature back into master | 22:56 |
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| jeblair | but it sounds like our immediate needs aren't important enough to push that though | 22:57 |
| jeblair | we can shelve harlowja's change until we're ready to do that anyway, and we'll survive | 22:57 |
| harlowja | wfm | 22:58 |
| jeblair | i will buy harlowja a cookie | 22:58 |
| Shrews | so, is it a goal that we remove py2 support from nodepool before release then? | 22:58 |
| jeblair | +1 | 22:58 |
| jeblair | #topic Surprise bonus topic: should we meet next week? | 22:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Surprise bonus topic: should we meet next week? (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:59 | |
| jeblair | i just realized i'm going to be sitting around watching a smoker all day next monday | 22:59 |
| jeblair | (it's the day before a holiday, so i will probably make it a 4 day weekend) | 23:00 |
| Shrews | i'm considering taking all of next week off, so +1 from me | 23:00 |
| jeblair | would folks like to cancel the meeting, or someone else want to chair? | 23:00 |
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| jlk | I'm okay w/out a meeting | 23:00 |
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| jlk | I'll report my investigations by way of a gerrit change | 23:00 |
| jeblair | okay, i'll wait for a volunteer chair until tomorrow and without one, i will send a cancellation notice | 23:01 |
| jeblair | thanks all! | 23:01 |
| * SpamapS is +0 | 23:01 | |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 23:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 23:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jun 26 23:01:46 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-06-26-22.02.html | 23:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-06-26-22.02.txt | 23:01 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-06-26-22.02.log.html | 23:01 |
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