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| toabctl | #startmeeting rpm_packaging | 12:02 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 28 12:02:41 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is toabctl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 12:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rpm_packaging' | 12:02 |
| toabctl | ping toabctl, dirk, apevec, aplanas, IgorYozhikov, jpena, jruzicka, number80, kaslcrof | 12:02 |
| jpena | o/ | 12:03 |
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| toabctl | #chair dirk jpena | 12:03 |
| openstack | Current chairs: dirk jpena toabctl | 12:03 |
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| toabctl | please add your topics to the agenda | 12:04 |
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| toabctl | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-rpm-packaging | 12:04 |
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| toabctl | #topic python-toml for monasca-agent | 12:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "python-toml for monasca-agent (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 12:06 | |
| toabctl | jpena, I guess it's your topic? | 12:06 |
| jpena | yes | 12:06 |
| jpena | it's a quick question about https://review.openstack.org/505204 | 12:07 |
| jpena | I understand the package is an optional dependency for monasca-agent, required when we use a specific backend, is this correct? | 12:07 |
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| toabctl | jpena, yes | 12:07 |
| toabctl | jgr, ^^ | 12:07 |
| jpena | why don't we make that package be installed by the automation tool, instead of making it a hard dep? | 12:08 |
| jgr | jpena: yes. | 12:08 |
| * dirk lost internet | 12:08 | |
| jgr | jpena: we've had that discussion before and agreed that it's ok for just one package (that doesn't pull in additional dependencies). | 12:08 |
| jgr | jpena: also, this one's a bit of an odd duck. | 12:09 |
| dirk | toabct: sorry, office is without network right now, need to skip meeting | 12:09 |
| toabctl | dirk, oki | 12:09 |
| jgr | jpena: the other optional dependencies (python-neutronclient, python-novaclient) are automatically there on machines where they are relevant (compute nodes). | 12:09 |
| jpena | ok then | 12:10 |
| jgr | jpena: for python-toml that is not the case because the service being monitored (influxdb) doesn't pull in python-toml (influxdb being written in go uses a Go library for TOML and does not need the Python one) | 12:10 |
| toabctl | jpena, is it a problem to add it to the RDO CI? | 12:10 |
| jpena | we'll have to import this dep in the RDO deps, it just takes a bit of time | 12:11 |
| jpena | to unblock the review, could we enclose it in an %if condition that skips it for RDO for the time being? | 12:11 |
| jpena | number80: ^^ we'll need to import python-toml | 12:11 |
| jgr | Sure, I can %if it out for RDO. | 12:12 |
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| jpena | ok, deal :) | 12:12 |
| toabctl | jgr, that might good for now | 12:12 |
| toabctl | oki. cool | 12:12 |
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| toabctl | #action jgr make python-toml only a Requires for suse | 12:12 |
| jpena | just add a FIXME(jpena), so I remember to remove it once the dep is in the repo | 12:12 |
| toabctl | #topic packaging reviews | 12:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "packaging reviews (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 12:14 | |
| toabctl | anything special? | 12:14 |
| toabctl | keystone seems to be broken in the SUSE CI | 12:15 |
| toabctl | #action toabctl fix SUSE CI keystone | 12:15 |
| toabctl | #topic open floor | 12:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open floor (Meeting topic: rpm_packaging)" | 12:17 | |
| toabctl | anything else? Otherwise this will be a short meeting.... | 12:17 |
| jpena | nothing for me | 12:17 |
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| toabctl | ok. thanks everybody | 12:18 |
| toabctl | #endmeeting | 12:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 12:18 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 28 12:18:45 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:18 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2017/rpm_packaging.2017-09-28-12.02.html | 12:18 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2017/rpm_packaging.2017-09-28-12.02.txt | 12:18 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rpm_packaging/2017/rpm_packaging.2017-09-28-12.02.log.html | 12:18 |
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| bswartz | #startmeeting manila | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 28 15:00:06 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bswartz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:00 |
| bswartz | hello all | 15:00 |
| dustins | \o | 15:00 |
| toabctl | hey | 15:00 |
| ganso | hello | 15:00 |
| *** belmoreira has quit IRC | 15:00 | |
| zhongjun | hi | 15:00 |
| tbarron | hi | 15:00 |
| vkmc | o/ | 15:00 |
| bswartz | vponomaryov gouthamr cknight xyang markstur: courtesy ping | 15:01 |
| gouthamr | hello o/ | 15:01 |
| bswartz | #topic announcements | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:01 | |
| bswartz | This week is R-22 -- milestone 1 is R-19 -- 3 weeks away | 15:02 |
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| bswartz | #link https://releases.openstack.org/queens/schedule.html | 15:02 |
| bswartz | we have a bunch of specs that need reviewing | 15:02 |
| bswartz | last week we held a virtual PTG, and it was well attended and we used the whole 2 days | 15:03 |
| gouthamr | that's also our spec freeze deadline | 15:03 |
| bswartz | we're becoming as bad as those cinder guys :-p | 15:03 |
| gouthamr | ouch :( | 15:03 |
| bswartz | I jest | 15:03 |
| markstur | o/ | 15:04 |
| bswartz | #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings | 15:04 |
| bswartz | #topic Discuss and elicit Feedback for PTG | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss and elicit Feedback for PTG (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:04 | |
| bswartz | we decided to take notes right on the topics etherpad itself | 15:04 |
| bswartz | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-ptg-queens | 15:04 |
| bswartz | first of all, we wrote down a LOT of #action items on the etherpad | 15:05 |
| bswartz | check for actions with your name on them and make sure to follow up | 15:05 |
| tbarron | maybe cross them out when done | 15:05 |
| bswartz | tbarron: that's a good idea | 15:05 |
| bswartz | then I can look for uncrossed out action and hound people about them | 15:06 |
| bswartz | some action don't have names so those will need owners if they didn't already get done | 15:06 |
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| bswartz | but I don't both people about those today -- I'm still working through my own list | 15:07 |
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| bswartz | I wanted to use this time to find out if there were any questions about stuff we covered last week | 15:07 |
| bswartz | or any questions from those who couldn't attend | 15:07 |
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| bswartz | or feedback about the format or content of the PTG | 15:07 |
| bswartz | on the subject of the format, we talked about the downsides of it being virtual at the end last thursday | 15:08 |
| zhongjun | I have one feedback | 15:08 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: go ahead | 15:08 |
| dustins | I think that sitting on the phone for two days got a little old, but it's better than not participating at all | 15:08 |
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| zhongjun | bswartz: about reset log level: Talk to the Cinder guys to get more information about this in order to reach an agreement | 15:09 |
| bswartz | dustins: yes I worry that as these events get longer and longer, virtual is a painful format | 15:09 |
| toabctl | dustins, +1 (but I only attended half of the time due to personal schedule conflicts) | 15:09 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: SIGHUP for Cinder will restart the whole service Which is a problem because we do some operations in the data path | 15:09 |
| amito-infinidat | o/ | 15:09 |
| dustins | And there were several times where I wrote down "it would have been nice to go into a hallway and talk with $PROJECT person about $TOPIC" | 15:10 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: I thought cinder had implemented handling for SIGHUP | 15:10 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: And for SIGHUP you have to go node by node changing it and restarting those services with SIGHUP | 15:10 |
| zhongjun | Whereas with the API you can just make the request from outside the cloud as long as you have admin privileges | 15:10 |
| bswartz | yes for the Rocky PTG I think we need to seriously consider going back to the face-to-face format, even if it requires unnatural scheduling gymnastics | 15:11 |
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| zhongjun | bswartz: yeah, they think SIGHUP is not enough | 15:11 |
| vkmc | yeah, I think these downsides were discussed when we voted on the formats | 15:11 |
| ganso | zhongjun: we could not reach an agreement on what to do for dynamic log level | 15:12 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: yeah, they think SIGHUP can not satisfy their requiement | 15:12 |
| ganso | zhongjun: there were advantages and disadvantages for both approaches | 15:12 |
| vkmc | face-to-face, although a bit harder to plan, feels less stressful | 15:12 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: I know there's a discussion about the ease of use of the 2 approaches -- my point is that it's not hard to make SIGHUP do the right thing, and I thought that at least SIGHUP wasn't handled the same as SIGTERM | 15:12 |
| tbarron | zhongjun: +1 for a convo with cinder and trying to drive the two projects to give a consistent user experience if we can | 15:13 |
| bswartz | so the one thing I'll mention about face-to-face is that, although it's not accounced yet, it seems likely that Rocky PTG will be held in Dublin | 15:13 |
| tbarron | face-to-beer | 15:13 |
| amito-infinidat | tbarron: lol | 15:13 |
| toabctl | hehe | 15:13 |
| bswartz | so travel costs may be higher for US-based people than for the last 2 PTGs | 15:13 |
| ganso | bswartz, vkmc, dustins: we had discussed internally the possibility of maybe having the manila PTG for the Tuesday and Friday of the PTG in order to have less conflict with cross projects and Cinder, although we are not sure if that will be possible | 15:13 |
| bswartz | yeah it's something to be worked out | 15:14 |
| zhongjun | bswartz:Such as：create volume from image uses the data path | 15:14 |
| zhongjun | it would give it something like 60 seconds to complete for create vol from image it may be enough but not for migrations that are using dd | 15:14 |
| ganso | tbarron: lol | 15:14 |
| dustins | ganso: Hmm, not a bad idea, no one ever said the days we chat have to be consecutive :) | 15:14 |
| bswartz | I expressed my opinion that the original design summit + midcycle format was preferable to the current system, but few in the community share those feelings | 15:14 |
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| bswartz | so we should plan around the current conference+PTG split as the reality going forward | 15:15 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: There are feedback from cinder | 15:15 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: SIGHUP do the some of the right thing, not all of right thing | 15:15 |
| gouthamr | though, if you think like me that the PTG and Forum can be back-to-back, please email blast the good folks at the Foundation :D | 15:15 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: yes that matches my understanding | 15:16 |
| tbarron | we could probably schedule some joint manila-cinder meetings like they do nova-cinder for overlapping issues like the dynamic config thing | 15:16 |
| bswartz | SIGHUP *can* do the right thing, but people find it insufficiently convenient to use | 15:16 |
| zhongjun | tbarron : +1 manila-cinder meeting | 15:16 |
| bswartz | tbarron: good point | 15:16 |
| tbarron | bswartz: my point is that users should get the same thing from cinder and manila on this, not atm on one side of the fence or another | 15:17 |
| dustins | tbarron: +1, there's a lot of overlap with what we do and what they do. It'd be nice to be on the same page | 15:17 |
| bswartz | that would save time on the parts of hte infra and docs folks so they wouldn't need to say the same things twice | 15:17 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: SIGHUP not just insufficiently convenient | 15:18 |
| bswartz | that's something to work out between jungleboyj and myself as the Rocky PTG planning gets underway | 15:18 |
| amito-infinidat | tbarron: + 1 | 15:18 |
| jungleboyj | What? | 15:18 |
| tbarron | oh, nm then :) | 15:18 |
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| * tbarron yanks jungleboyj's chain | 15:18 | |
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| bswartz | anyways everyone is now focused on Sydney and the next PTG is far away -- just wanted to mention that after attending both PTGs myself, I'm back to leaning in favor of face to face PTG next time, and we'll need to figure out the specifics later on during queens | 15:19 |
| jungleboyj | It would be good to have a Cinder/Manila meeting. | 15:20 |
| bswartz | since zhongjun has a specific concern, let's switch topics and try to resolve it here | 15:20 |
| bswartz | #topic changing log level dynamically | 15:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "changing log level dynamically (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:20 | |
| zhongjun | thanks | 15:21 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: are you claiming the there's a technical impediment to changing log levels in Cinder using only SIGHUP? | 15:21 |
| jungleboyj | Getting dynamic reconfig working would be good. Doesn't work for Cinder right now, not sure how well it works with Manila | 15:21 |
| jungleboyj | bswartz: No, Gorka actually implemented another mechanism for it. | 15:21 |
| bswartz | jungleboyj: yes we've heard -- I'm trying to figure out if the reason is technical or ergonomical | 15:22 |
| bswartz | all of the arguments i've heard so far have been of the flavor: "it's too hard to actually modify config files and send signals to the cinder processes" | 15:22 |
| bswartz | and I consider that to be an ergonomic argument | 15:23 |
| jungleboyj | bswartz: That was where things kept getting stuck. So, that was why Gorka made the dynamic log level change to enable it without having to tackle making everything dynamic. | 15:23 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: there is a technical impediment to changing log levels in Cinder using only SIGHUP | 15:23 |
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| bswartz | my worry is the slippery slope of allowing everything to be reconfigured through APIs, even though the config file could be used | 15:24 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: It just not work well now | 15:24 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: can you describe what doesn't work well, or why it doesn't work well? | 15:24 |
| jungleboyj | bswartz: Understood. | 15:24 |
| jungleboyj | We made logging a special case for better or worse. | 15:25 |
| tbarron | zhongjun said earlier that it would break data path operations, right? | 15:25 |
| bswartz | tbarron: only if SIGHUP == SIGTERM | 15:25 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: SIGHUP for Cinder will restart the whole service Which is a problem because we do some operations in the data path | 15:25 |
| bswartz | that seems simply like poor handling of SIGHUP | 15:26 |
| ganso | we must not restart the service | 15:26 |
| tbarron | zhongjun so that was what I was going to ask, isn't that SIGTEMRM behavior? | 15:26 |
| bswartz | signal handling in Unix is not hard to do right | 15:26 |
| tbarron | SIGTERM | 15:26 |
| zhongjun | tbarron: Just seen SIGHUP service_pid | 15:27 |
| bswartz | the challenge we have is enumerating which options are safe to change without a restart, and then only updating those options when a SIGHUP is received | 15:27 |
| zhongjun | tbarron: Just seed SIGHUP service_pid | 15:27 |
| zhongjun | s/seed/send | 15:27 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: by default, SIGHUP is treated like SIGTERM -- you have to write code to make a service do the right thing | 15:28 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: it will restart in internal service | 15:28 |
| bswartz | olso.service has that code AIUI | 15:28 |
| bswartz | I don't know if cinder uses it yet | 15:28 |
| bswartz | someone needs to investigate oslo service signal handling and whether it can be used to anything useful at all | 15:29 |
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| bswartz | I've been presuming that it would work for at least some subset of our options, and log levels seems like the most obvious application | 15:29 |
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| bswartz | it seems that we still don't have a complete picture on this topic | 15:30 |
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| bswartz | and it seems that cinder chose the path it did just to be expedient -- presumably because the feature was high priority for someone | 15:31 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: How to make the request from outside the cloud | 15:32 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: use SIGHUP | 15:32 |
| bswartz | that's a deployer concern | 15:33 |
| tbarron | bswartz: well, all manila deployments have to be deployed | 15:33 |
| bswartz | the same way you edit any config option from outside the cloud | 15:33 |
| tbarron | bswartz: that's fairer | 15:33 |
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| bswartz | I consider logging to be a strictly deployer-oriented facility | 15:34 |
| bswartz | if there are use cases for some log messages being available to people who can't access config files, then maybe we need a more elaborate logging facility | 15:34 |
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| bswartz | I could be convinced that logging is special somehow -- I just haven't heard a good reason why yet | 15:35 |
| tbarron | it's probably worth thinking about real world use cases with support desks and such | 15:36 |
| bswartz | tbarron: exactly | 15:36 |
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| bswartz | I'm curious to know who these persons are who are consuming log messages but who aren't empowered to change configurations | 15:36 |
| tbarron | so in our case a standard thing would be 1) turn on debug; 2) repeat the steps to cause the problem; 3) generate sosreport; 4) turn off debug | 15:37 |
| bswartz | perhaps the best way to service them would be to turn on debug logging always, but to direct logs to a log processing tool instead of the normal files, and to have the log processing tool filter debug logs normally | 15:37 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: I put our real use cases in PTG before | 15:37 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: so the argument you're making is that there's no technical reason that log levels couldn't be updated using a config file change and a SIGHUP -- but that there is a special use case around log consumption that requires non-administrators to be able to temporarily elevate the log level | 15:39 |
| bswartz | the key here would be that there's something special about log level that doesn't apply to any other config option | 15:40 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: turn on debug logging always could consume many storage | 15:40 |
| bswartz | because I would be upset if we implement a special API for changing log levels, and then someone wanted to do the same for some other config option next release | 15:41 |
| bswartz | zhongjun: that's only if the logs are not being filtered | 15:41 |
| bswartz | it's possible to filter logs before they get written to disk | 15:41 |
| tbarron | I think any production cloud worth its salt should not get disk filled by debug ON in logging | 15:42 |
| bswartz | my suggestion was to consider doing the filtering somewhere outside manila -- in which case the use case could be solved with Pike or earlier in additional to queens | 15:42 |
| tbarron | a developer cloud is another thing | 15:42 |
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| zhongjun | bswartz: We usually use original openstack project, it better to find a good way in openstack itself | 15:43 |
| bswartz | I'm just imaging that 60 new APIs are added to 60 openstack projects to control dynamic logging in each project... | 15:43 |
| bswartz | when this is really a common problem that should have a common soluition | 15:43 |
| bswartz | solution* | 15:44 |
| tbarron | bswartz: I think there are objective reasons not to allow REST interface to config in general. | 15:44 |
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| tbarron | There aren't the same real world use cases to justify it. | 15:44 |
| tbarron | logging is special. | 15:44 |
| tbarron | you asked about trace logging and that is a grey case but there aren't many grey cases I think. | 15:44 |
| bswartz | yeah there are vendor specific log options (at least for NetApp) that the same logic could be applied to | 15:45 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: logging is really special, there isn't another one I could see . | 15:45 |
| tbarron | if someone says they want a rest API to change back end connection details then I don't see the corresponding use case. | 15:45 |
| vkmc | I have been involved in a discussion like this in some other project I worked on... the main issue is 1. security concerns 2. use cases 3. this doesn't fit the idea of "as a service", end users shouldn't have access to logs | 15:45 |
| bswartz | the NetApp debugging procedure is to enable trace logging in our driver while reproducing strange problems | 15:45 |
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| tbarron | netapp has trace-flags, arguably like logging, but are there other grey cases? | 15:46 |
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| tbarron | And are any of them not back end specific? | 15:46 |
| bswartz | tbarron: we're adding a new config option to make trace logging even more granular | 15:46 |
| * bswartz looks to gouthamr for the patch | 15:46 | |
| tbarron | That's a criterion one could apply right there: no back end specific config should have a REST api to toggle. | 15:46 |
| * gouthamr wakes up | 15:47 | |
| gouthamr | #LINK: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/505437/ | 15:47 |
| tbarron | I could get behind that rule. | 15:47 |
| zhongjun | bswartz: It's really so hard to change log level in our real client envoriment (original project) | 15:47 |
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| tbarron | Then I'd ask: are there any other cases to worry about? | 15:47 |
| bswartz | dunno if any of you have read the 12-factor app | 15:48 |
| bswartz | #link https://12factor.net/ | 15:48 |
| bswartz | read number 11 | 15:48 |
| toabctl | was that topic discussed with the oslo.config guys maybe? if specific options need some sort of rest api, maybe there is a generic way which can be implemented there and then hooked into the different projects? | 15:48 |
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| bswartz | I don't consider 12factor.net gospel by any means, but there is wisdom in some of it, and I happen to agree with 11 | 15:49 |
| bswartz | anyways we're going to run out of time and there's another topic for today | 15:50 |
| bswartz | so we'll need to table this discussion | 15:50 |
| bswartz | #topic Bug Tsar/Czar | 15:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bug Tsar/Czar (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:50 | |
| bswartz | dustins: you still here? | 15:50 |
| dustins | Yessir! | 15:50 |
| dustins | So at the PTG there was talk of the need of a Bug Tsar | 15:51 |
| bswartz | toabctl: your suggestion sounds more appealing than what cinder did | 15:51 |
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| dustins | And, to make a long story short, I'm volunteering my services to it | 15:51 |
| bswartz | dustins: I thought it was czar | 15:51 |
| dustins | Assuming that everyone's onboard | 15:51 |
| dustins | bswartz: I think they're interchangable? | 15:52 |
| bswartz | but if you want to job, you can spell it however you want! | 15:52 |
| * dustins shrugs | 15:52 | |
| bswartz | awesome, thanks dustins | 15:52 |
| dustins | Bug...Person? | 15:52 |
| gouthamr | BuggerKing | 15:52 |
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| ganso | lol | 15:52 |
| dustins | bswartz: of course, I'll likely add a section to the Manila meetings to discuss bug status/bug folks that are assigned bugs | 15:52 |
| bswartz | Bug Emperor | 15:52 |
| dustins | gouthamr: no | 15:52 |
| dustins | bswartz: yes | 15:53 |
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| tbarron | dustins: job comes with title but no salary bump | 15:53 |
| gouthamr | :D | 15:53 |
| bswartz | dustins: that would be good -- to review the open bug list weekly or something close to weekly | 15:53 |
| gouthamr | lol | 15:53 |
| gouthamr | dustins: you're awesome for doing it though | 15:53 |
| dustins | bswartz: I plan on taking a glance daily and deep dive at least weekly and then reporting to the group here | 15:54 |
| bswartz | dustins: do we need to schedule any kind of extra meetings for you to sync up with me or other community members about bugs? | 15:54 |
| bswartz | or do you want to handle all the communications in this meeting? | 15:54 |
| dustins | bswartz: Not yet, but I would like to have a list of maintainers so that driver-specific bugs I can assign to the proper owners | 15:55 |
| dustins | If I need it, I'll ask for it | 15:55 |
| bswartz | okay | 15:55 |
| bswartz | dustins: I'll share my maintainer list with you | 15:55 |
| dustins | bswartz: Awesome, thanks | 15:55 |
| bswartz | it's most likely out of date, but since nothing official exists, I keep a spreadsheet | 15:55 |
| gouthamr | dustins: there's probably an inaccurate driverlog for manila.. | 15:55 |
| dustins | Hmm, we should make that accurate... | 15:56 |
| bswartz | driverlog might be a better data source | 15:56 |
| bswartz | we could synchronize the 2 | 15:56 |
| bswartz | I hate having my own private information source -- I would like it to be public and maintained by other people | 15:56 |
| gouthamr | yep, https://github.com/openstack/driverlog/blob/master/etc/default_data.json - pushing the NTAP update today | 15:56 |
| dustins | Sounds like a job for...etherpad? | 15:56 |
| bswartz | not etherpad | 15:57 |
| bswartz | wiki or git | 15:57 |
| dustins | +1 | 15:57 |
| bswartz | driverlog seems to prefer git | 15:57 |
| tbarron | dustins: move quick, give netapp bugs to cknight | 15:57 |
| dustins | tbarron: I'm sure he won't mind :) | 15:58 |
| zhongjun | tbarron: :) | 15:58 |
| bswartz | wow -- a 5000 line json file was the best idea to store this data? | 15:58 |
| dustins | Said no one ever | 15:58 |
| bswartz | smh | 15:58 |
| tbarron | bswartz: we could have made a separate repo for each vendor :) | 15:58 |
| bswartz | nooooooo | 15:58 |
| tbarron | heh | 15:58 |
| bswartz | how about directories with yaml files | 15:59 |
| tbarron | happy medium | 15:59 |
| gouthamr | timecheck, yaml vs json can go forever | 15:59 |
| bswartz | oh wel | 15:59 |
| gouthamr | #vote yaml | 15:59 |
| bswartz | that's not true | 15:59 |
| bswartz | yaml wins hands down | 15:59 |
| tbarron | #vote database | 15:59 |
| gouthamr | #vote manila | 15:59 |
| bswartz | json is for computer consumption, not human consumption | 15:59 |
| bswartz | but you're right about the time | 16:00 |
| bswartz | thanks everyone | 16:00 |
| dustins | thanks, bswartz! | 16:00 |
| bswartz | and thanks dustins for volunteering for bug czar | 16:00 |
| gouthamr | \o thanks dustins | 16:00 |
| dustins | My pleasure | 16:00 |
| bswartz | there is a wiki where you should probably make that official | 16:00 |
| dustins | Somewhere, probably | 16:00 |
| bswartz | I'll find it | 16:00 |
| bswartz | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| dustins | Sounds good! | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 28 16:01:01 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2017/manila.2017-09-28-15.00.html | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2017/manila.2017-09-28-15.00.txt | 16:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2017/manila.2017-09-28-15.00.log.html | 16:01 |
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| lhinds | #startmeeting security | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Sep 28 17:01:12 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is lhinds. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'security' | 17:01 |
| lhinds | #topic roll-call | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll-call (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:01 | |
| lhinds | any folks around? | 17:01 |
| raildo | o/ | 17:01 |
| lhinds | hey raildo | 17:01 |
| raildo | lhinds, hey sir :) | 17:01 |
| ssathaye | o/ | 17:02 |
| ssathaye | hi luke | 17:02 |
| lhinds | gagehugo / fungi / mdong | 17:02 |
| fungi | i am semi-around | 17:02 |
| gagehugo | o/ | 17:02 |
| lhinds | ssathaye hey! | 17:02 |
| fungi | zuul v3 cutover is underway so i'm not paying super close attention in here | 17:02 |
| lhinds | cool, that's enough to merit a meeting | 17:02 |
| lhinds | no worries fungi | 17:02 |
| aprice | This is Allison from the OpenStack Foundation. I had a question I would like to present to the security team about the Sydney Summit, but can ask once the agenda has been completed | 17:02 |
| ssathaye | hey! | 17:02 |
| lhinds | hi aprice | 17:02 |
| fungi | aprice! fancy meeting you here ;) | 17:03 |
| aprice | :) | 17:03 |
| lhinds | aprice: I will make sure I keep some time...how long do you need? | 17:03 |
| aprice | 5 minutes would be sufficient. I can be brief | 17:03 |
| lhinds | np | 17:03 |
| lhinds | #topic SIG | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SIG (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:03 | |
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| lhinds | I spoke with thiery at the PTG and he floated the idea of changing from a project to a SIG (special interest group) | 17:04 |
| gj2017 | o/ | 17:04 |
| gagehugo | makes sense imo | 17:04 |
| lhinds | hi gj2017 ! | 17:04 |
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| lhinds | I thought what we could do is digest this and read up, and then I will ask ttx along to the next meeting, and we can discuss pros / cons | 17:05 |
| lhinds | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_SIGs | 17:05 |
| fungi | for one thing, lhinds would no longer need to be a ptl! | 17:06 |
| lhinds | seems like the structure would remain the same (which was my main consideration), just need to think about will it really improve things | 17:06 |
| lhinds | fungi: theres that too...to be honest if it improves the dyanmics of the group / project / SIG..I don't mind | 17:06 |
| lhinds | shortest PRL ever :P | 17:07 |
| fungi | heh | 17:07 |
| lhinds | s/PRL/PTL | 17:07 |
| raildo | lhinds, makes sense for me, since we have a couple of projects related to security, where this group try to "unified discussions" across those teams | 17:07 |
| lhinds | good point raildo , but I guess we can do that right now as well...for me its more about bodies, more than name | 17:08 |
| ssathaye | I think it makes a lot of sense too. | 17:08 |
| lhinds | let's go over it next week though | 17:08 |
| raildo | ++ | 17:08 |
| lhinds | sounds like its a good idea for you though, so we can vote on it after giving folks time to digest and read | 17:08 |
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| lhinds | #topic Documentation | 17:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Documentation (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:09 | |
| lhinds | so we did a lot of work on a secrets management chapter: | 17:09 |
| lhinds | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/451965/ | 17:09 |
| lhinds | this is almost final now, might be some nits that people can spot..but its close to done now. | 17:09 |
| lhinds | if anyone can have a review that would be great. | 17:10 |
| gagehugo | lhinds I'll take another look at it | 17:10 |
| raildo | lhinds, thanks for doing that, great work! | 17:10 |
| gagehugo | raildo ++ | 17:10 |
| lhinds | as always, looking for more people to help out on docs.. anyone wants to get involved, just send me a message and will help you settle in | 17:10 |
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| lhinds | k, I think that's it for docs. | 17:11 |
| lhinds | I am still doing a sweep through to check its all relevant still and have a spec to go up soon on some possible tweaks | 17:12 |
| lhinds | #topic bandit | 17:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bandit (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:12 | |
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| lhinds | mainly the hashlib.new() patch... | 17:12 |
| lhinds | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/504544/ | 17:12 |
| lhinds | I think this is ready for mergies..I will try to reach ebrown and see if we can merge. | 17:13 |
| gagehugo | ok | 17:13 |
| lhinds | threre are a few wishlists if anyone would like to take something on: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bandit | 17:14 |
| lhinds | mdong anything for syntribos? | 17:14 |
| lhinds | k. | 17:15 |
| lhinds | #topic OSSN | 17:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OSSN (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:15 | |
| ssathaye | Can someone point a newbie to a simple thing to target on https://bugs.launchpad.net/bandit? lhinds? | 17:15 |
| ssathaye | (wasn't fast enough, I suppose) | 17:16 |
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| lhinds | ssathaye: not to sure if anything simple there.. OSSN might be good for you though | 17:16 |
| fungi | oh, right, i owe you errata for 0081 | 17:16 |
| lhinds | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ossn | 17:16 |
| ssathaye | lhinds: ok | 17:16 |
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| lhinds | so a good OSSN to work on is 1703369 | 17:16 |
| lhinds | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ossn/+bug/1703369 | 17:17 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1703369 in OpenStack Security Notes "get_identity_providers policy should be singular" [Undecided,Confirmed] - Assigned to Luke Hinds (lhinds) | 17:17 |
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| lhinds | This is assigned to me, but I could sponsor someone on writing this should they be up for it> | 17:17 |
| lhinds | ? | 17:17 |
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| lhinds | The ScaleIO issue I think needs more info on it last time I looked | 17:18 |
| fungi | not sure if anyone saw my link to the oss-security thread on passlib.hash.sha512_crypt bits | 17:18 |
| fungi | #link https://launchpad.net/bugs/1543048 | 17:18 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1543048 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "support alternative password hashing in keystone" [High,Fix released] - Assigned to Morgan Fainberg (mdrnstm) | 17:18 |
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| lhinds | I never saw that fungi , do you have it handy? | 17:19 |
| fungi | it's linked there | 17:19 |
| fungi | the ossn likely needs revamping/lightening (if not retracting) at this stage, but i'll get something written up | 17:19 |
| lhinds | ack, got you now fungi - thanks! | 17:20 |
| lhinds | if we need to enter something into the security guide too, we can do that | 17:20 |
| fungi | short answer is that passlib's sha512_crypt is the sha512-based unix password hash kdf, not just a bare sha2-512 hash | 17:20 |
| lhinds | perhaps a checklist item, or `note:` section | 17:21 |
| lhinds | #topic threat-analysis | 17:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "threat-analysis (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:21 | |
| ssathaye | lhinds: looking closely at 1703369. | 17:21 |
| ssathaye | I will let you know | 17:21 |
| lhinds | thanks ssathaye , I can help out a lot on that one and we can meet whenever to go over it if you like | 17:22 |
| lhinds | fungi, when zuul v3 calms down will ping you about keystone client | 17:22 |
| lhinds | gagehugo: do you know anything about the others (pycadf etc)? | 17:22 |
| gagehugo | lhinds we decided at the PTG to start writing docs for them | 17:23 |
| lhinds | ok cool, sorry I did not make that discussion, did not catch the pings until later after the PTG | 17:23 |
| gagehugo | similar to what we did for keystonemiddleware | 17:23 |
| gagehugo | np | 17:24 |
| gagehugo | you didn't miss too much | 17:24 |
| lhinds | ok, please add me to any reviews if it helps. | 17:24 |
| gagehugo | will do | 17:24 |
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| lhinds | right last five mins for sydney | 17:24 |
| lhinds | #topic sydney security question | 17:24 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "sydney security question (Meeting topic: security)" | 17:24 | |
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| lhinds | aprice: all yours.. | 17:25 |
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| aprice | so we have a reporter that attends the Summits and he focuses on security. With his attendance, we give him a 40-minute breakout session and in the past what has worked successfully is partnering him with someone from the security team to talk about the latest updates with OpenStack security | 17:26 |
| aprice | I wanted to open it to the team to see if anyone has the bandwidth at the Sydney Summit or would be interested in participating with him in a casual format. | 17:26 |
| lhinds | I won't be present myself. | 17:27 |
| lhinds | anyone else, i think gagehugo might be there | 17:27 |
| fungi | this would be akin to the one we did in boston where i was on a panel with major, redrobot et al? | 17:27 |
| aprice | correct | 17:27 |
| gagehugo | I'll be there, but I can't say that I'm entirely familiar with what has been going on with security lately :( | 17:28 |
| aprice | so it could be a panel with several folks or 1-2 people. we are pretty flexible on format | 17:28 |
| fungi | yeah, sean kerner moderated. worked out well | 17:28 |
| lhinds | we might be able to do it with different project people, so keystone, barbican .. | 17:28 |
| fungi | right, i'd love to see us mixit up | 17:29 |
| aprice | ok - I love that idea. | 17:29 |
| lhinds | gagehugo: I guess you could do keystone | 17:29 |
| gagehugo | that would work | 17:29 |
| lhinds | dave-mcc_: are you in sydney? | 17:29 |
| fungi | boston ended up the way it did because hyakuhei had to bow out so we wrangled some random project representatives on no notice | 17:29 |
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| fungi | but still worked great | 17:29 |
| lhinds | I will add this for a topic for next week and we can add interested parties in there. | 17:30 |
| aprice | and if there are any other recommendations on those other project teams, I am happy to reach out to folks directly | 17:30 |
| aprice | lhinds: thanks! | 17:30 |
| aprice | feel free to ping me directly here if you have anyone in particular that you hear from or you think it would be a good fit. | 17:30 |
| fungi | consider me a potential backup panelist. i'll be in sydney, but i was on the last one so we should try to share the love | 17:30 |
| lhinds | aprice: will track in here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/security-agenda | 17:31 |
| aprice | fungi: thanks! but yes, agree that it would be great to have more reps | 17:31 |
| aprice | lhinds: awesome - will do | 17:31 |
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| lhinds | great, so we are at the end...very good meeting all, thank you so much for coming. | 17:31 |
| ssathaye | thank you | 17:31 |
| fungi | thanks for chairing, lhinds! | 17:31 |
| lhinds | good to have new folks, so welcome ssathaye and gj2017 | 17:31 |
| ssathaye | :-) | 17:31 |
| gj2017 | ;-) | 17:32 |
| lhinds | ssathaye: will ping you about OSSNs and helping out! many thanks | 17:32 |
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| ssathaye | Great! thx agn | 17:32 |
| lhinds | see you all next week, and thanks gagehugo for covering for me last week | 17:32 |
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| lhinds | #endmeeting | 17:32 |
| gagehugo | lhinds anytime | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:32 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Sep 28 17:32:35 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:32 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2017/security.2017-09-28-17.01.html | 17:32 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2017/security.2017-09-28-17.01.txt | 17:32 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/security/2017/security.2017-09-28-17.01.log.html | 17:32 |
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