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| edleafe | #startmeeting nova_scheduler | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 5 14:00:13 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is edleafe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| edleafe | #link Agenda for this meeting https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NovaScheduler#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 14:00 |
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| edleafe | Good UGT morning! | 14:00 |
| edleafe | Who's here? | 14:00 |
| takashin | o/ | 14:00 |
| efried | @/ | 14:01 |
| edleafe | comb your hair, efried! | 14:01 |
| cdent | oh hi | 14:01 |
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| edleafe | Huh, looks like it will a quick meeting | 14:03 |
| edleafe | #topic Specs & Reviews | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs & Reviews (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:03 | |
| edleafe | Since Feature Freeze is past, not much to say about these changes, so I'll just paste 'em here for posterity, and if anyone has anything to say about them, go for it. | 14:03 |
| edleafe | #link Provider Tree series, starting with: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/537648/ | 14:03 |
| edleafe | #link Nested RP traits selection: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/531899/ | 14:03 |
| edleafe | #link Granular resource requests review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/517757/ | 14:03 |
| edleafe | #link Remove microversion fallback: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/528794/ | 14:04 |
| edleafe | #link Use alternate hosts for resize: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/537614/ | 14:04 |
| edleafe | Anyone want to discuss any of these? | 14:04 |
| efried | I just edited to include spec links | 14:04 |
| edleafe | efried: gotcha | 14:05 |
| efried | We can be getting a jump on reviewing ready code. | 14:05 |
| efried | even if we can't merge it. | 14:05 |
| edleafe | true, true | 14:05 |
| jaypipes_ | o/ sorry for being late | 14:06 |
| edleafe | hey there jaypipes_! | 14:06 |
| *** jaypipes_ is now known as jaypipes | 14:06 | |
| edleafe | #topic Bugs | 14:06 |
| edleafe | #link Placement bugs https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=placement | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:06 | |
| edleafe | A few new ones this week | 14:06 |
| edleafe | efried seems to have found issues with generation consistency | 14:06 |
| efried | I think I have fixes proposed for most of the ones I opened. | 14:07 |
| efried | There's still at least one that's going to need some discussion. | 14:07 |
| efried | Not sure if we want to do that here or wait til the PTG | 14:07 |
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| edleafe | Unless it's a simple thing, I'd prefer to wait for PTG so that we can get several eyes on it | 14:08 |
| cdent | I made a spec for the aggregates one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/540447/ and including some editorializing in the alternatives section | 14:08 |
| efried | It's simple. It's not easy. | 14:08 |
| * efried clicks | 14:08 | |
| edleafe | #link Add generation support in aggregate association https://review.openstack.org/#/c/540447/ | 14:09 |
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| edleafe | efried: it sounds like we need a general cleanup of how we handle generations | 14:10 |
| efried | Yes | 14:10 |
| edleafe | BRB - gotta move my car | 14:10 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: cleanup? | 14:10 |
| efried | More of a sweep to make sure we've got all the holes filled - on both sides (server & report client) | 14:11 |
| jaypipes | efried: is it cleanup or just making sure we are consistent in exposing the generation when changing things related to the provider? | 14:11 |
| jaypipes | gotcha | 14:11 |
| efried | jaypipes: On the client side, there's a couple reviews out there for bugs. | 14:12 |
| efried | one of them you've already been reviewing. | 14:13 |
| efried | Then there's this one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/539712/ | 14:13 |
| * edleafe is back | 14:13 | |
| jaypipes | efried: k | 14:14 |
| efried | hm, maybe that's the only one related to generation conflicts so far. The rest we need to discuss eventually. | 14:14 |
| edleafe | Which kind of leads us to... | 14:14 |
| edleafe | #topic Open discussion | 14:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:14 | |
| edleafe | One thing on the agenda: | 14:14 |
| edleafe | Should allocations fail if there is a generation mis-match for a provider, even if the provider still has sufficient available inventory? | 14:14 |
| edleafe | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1719933 | 14:14 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1719933 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "placement server needs to retry allocations, server-side" [Medium,Triaged] - Assigned to Jay Pipes (jaypipes) | 14:14 |
| edleafe | Could we perhaps increment the generation on a successful allocation even if the generation is older? | 14:14 |
| edleafe | We don't need to answer this today | 14:15 |
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| jaypipes | edleafe: it should fail and let the caller decide. | 14:15 |
| edleafe | But it came up in discussion last week, and I didn't want it to get lost | 14:15 |
| efried | This is related to https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1746373 | 14:15 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1746373 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Placement APIs with missing conflict detection" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Eric Fried (efried) | 14:15 |
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| cdent | jaypipes: why should allocations fail, though? | 14:16 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: but if there is sufficient inventory, why should it fail? | 14:16 |
| efried | Sorry, maybe I missed something. Does bug 1719933 imply that we're using generations in allocation APIs? Cause afaict, we're not. | 14:16 |
| openstack | bug 1719933 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "placement server needs to retry allocations, server-side" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1719933 - Assigned to Jay Pipes (jaypipes) | 14:16 |
| * bauzas waves super late | 14:16 | |
| cdent | efried: they are used only server-side | 14:16 |
| jaypipes | cdent, edleafe: it should "fail" in so much as a 409 Conflict is returned and allows the caller to retry if it wants. i.e. what we already do in the claim_resources() process. | 14:16 |
| efried | Swhat I thought. So we're always incrementing based on what's in the db, not what comes in on the request, right? | 14:16 |
| efried | Or does the allocation_request contain a generation (and I missed it)? | 14:17 |
| cdent | at the api level it acquires a generation, and then can concurrent update fail | 14:17 |
| edleafe | I think that this would be part of an overall discussion of how generations are used/exposed/etc. for PTG | 14:17 |
| jaypipes | ack | 14:18 |
| efried | Right now the doc for PUT /allocations/{c} 1.12- says generation is ignored. | 14:18 |
| cdent | jaypipes: sure, but we talked (you even TODO'd) about allowing a few server-side retries, and it was in the discussion of how that was actually more complex than we initially thougt that we realized this generation issues | 14:18 |
| jaypipes | cdent: ok | 14:18 |
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| cdent | and at the moment I can't think of any reason why we would want to take a generation, it ought to just work (if there's room) | 14:19 |
| edleafe | yeah, if we can retry on generation mismatch, what is having a generation involved getting for us? | 14:19 |
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| edleafe | Food for thought, and we have 3 weeks to digest until PTG | 14:19 |
| efried | ...and doesn't figure in the POST /allocations API at all (at least based on the doc). | 14:20 |
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| cdent | edleafe: did you make an explicit entry about this on the ptg etherpad (I think you said you did, but I can't remember for sure)? | 14:22 |
| edleafe | efried: the generation is part of the RP part of the Allocation, no? | 14:22 |
| efried | nope | 14:22 |
| efried | In PUT, it's there but ignored. In POST, it's not there. | 14:22 |
| cdent | of the Allocation object, it is | 14:22 |
| edleafe | cdent: not yet. I figured let's mention it here, and if it wasn't clarified, we'd PTG it | 14:22 |
| efried | cdent: I do not see it. | 14:23 |
| cdent | efried: ask me after the meeting and I'll point it/explain it | 14:23 |
| efried | Anyway, I believe I did add this to the etherpad; let me go find the line no. | 14:23 |
| efried | L61 | 14:23 |
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| edleafe | Added | 14:24 |
| efried | edleafe: Duplicate | 14:24 |
| edleafe | It's kind of a dupe | 14:24 |
| edleafe | jinx | 14:24 |
| efried | at least move it next to the other one. | 14:25 |
| cdent | (just to note: "more than one thread managing allocations for a single consumer" is the crux of that biscuit, and something I thought we were disallowing, so is the real root of the topic) | 14:25 |
| efried | There is a little bit of non-overlap. | 14:25 |
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| edleafe | So it seems to me that we need to, as a group, define the areas where generation is critical to ensure data integrity, and where it isn't. | 14:26 |
| edleafe | And then make sure that the code matches that | 14:27 |
| efried | just so | 14:27 |
| edleafe | OK, then, anything else for Open Discussion? | 14:28 |
| cdent | yeah, couple things | 14:28 |
| cdent | I just wrote a blog post summarizing placement api changes: | 14:29 |
| cdent | #link queens summary https://anticdent.org/placement-queens-summary.html | 14:29 |
| edleafe | Ah, yes, thanks for that | 14:29 |
| cdent | that's _only_ api changes. can do more if people ask | 14:29 |
| edleafe | I'm 2/3 of the way through my blog post on Alternate Hosts | 14:29 |
| cdent | And last week I wrote a different posting, which I would appreciate some feedback on, especially from jaypipes (if only from a long term history point of view) | 14:29 |
| bauzas | cdent: I like the idea to just tell about API changes | 14:29 |
| cdent | #link placement extraction https://anticdent.org/placement-extraction.html | 14:29 |
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| cdent | I'd like to think that _someday_ we can do the extraction, but without some shared discussion on the topic, it will never get traction | 14:30 |
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| cdent | and we'll always be saying "after X" | 14:30 |
| bauzas | _someday_ is a reasonable target | 14:30 |
| edleafe | And I think the longer we wait to do that, the more difficult it will be | 14:30 |
| bauzas | do we still consider that as a necessary thing ? | 14:31 |
| edleafe | I do | 14:31 |
| bauzas | I mean, if other projects can use openstackclient or directly call the Placement API, why is that such a big deal ? | 14:31 |
| cdent | bauzas: it's necessary for the health of openstack, even if there are no technical reasons | 14:31 |
| bauzas | from a technical perspective I mean | 14:31 |
| cdent | (but there are technical reasons) | 14:31 |
| edleafe | OpenStack could all be in Nova :) | 14:32 |
| bauzas | cdent: do you feel placement was less prioritary than other features in Nova ? | 14:32 |
| cdent | bauzas: if you haven't had a chance to read the posting, it covers various things | 14:32 |
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| cdent | bauzas: no, actually, I think that placement takes _too much_ priority in nova | 14:32 |
| cdent | and that nova would benefit by having placement not in it | 14:32 |
| bauzas | cdent: that's certainly a good point | 14:32 |
| bauzas | cdent: too much traction | 14:33 |
| efried | Development of placement is currently being guided entirely by nova, and therefore (despite intentions to the contrary) primarily for the benefit of nova. | 14:33 |
| bauzas | cdent: but the thing is, I feel we're still on a firedrill | 14:33 |
| cdent | an artificial firedrill | 14:33 |
| bauzas | and the interface between Nova and Placement isn't fully sold | 14:33 |
| cdent | that interface shouldn't matter to extraction, should it? | 14:34 |
| bauzas | for example, consider efried's point on generic request expression | 14:34 |
| bauzas | cdent: well, a single repo eases things, right? | 14:34 |
| cdent | no | 14:34 |
| cdent | no | 14:34 |
| cdent | no | 14:34 |
| cdent | totally disagree with that | 14:34 |
| bauzas | honestly, I was way less interacting with placement that cycle than the others | 14:34 |
| cdent | (this :) ) | 14:34 |
| bauzas | so I need to catch up | 14:34 |
| bauzas | but still, I'm a bit considering how it can be difficult for things to coordinate if we split | 14:35 |
| bauzas | anyway | 14:35 |
| bauzas | let's not overdiscuss that now | 14:35 |
| bauzas | it's a pretty serious meat for disussions at the PTG :-) | 14:35 |
| bauzas | tbc, I'm not opposed to the split | 14:36 |
| cdent | bauzas: if you've got comments on the blog posting, before the ptg, if you could leave them there that would help move things forward before we get to the ptg | 14:36 |
| bauzas | cdent: I'll certainly read the blogpost | 14:36 |
| cdent | if this coming ptg is anything like the last one, speculative discussion about what we _might_ do will be shut down by people who want to talk only about stuff we are definitely going to do | 14:36 |
| cdent | so need to discuss as much speculatively beforehand | 14:36 |
| edleafe | good point | 14:36 |
| cdent | bauzas: comments at least as important as reading | 14:36 |
| cdent | edleafe: yeah, not just about extraction, but most topics | 14:37 |
| bauzas | roger this | 14:37 |
| edleafe | "If it isn't going to be completed in this cycle, why should we talk about it?" | 14:37 |
| edleafe | Anyway, let's continue the discussion on the blog post | 14:38 |
| cdent | ✔ | 14:38 |
| edleafe | Anything else before we wrap things up? | 14:38 |
| cdent | no sir | 14:38 |
| edleafe | Going once... | 14:38 |
| edleafe | Going once... | 14:39 |
| edleafe | oops - twice! | 14:39 |
| edleafe | OK, thanks everyone! | 14:39 |
| edleafe | #endmeeting | 14:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 14:39 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 5 14:39:24 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:39 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2018/nova_scheduler.2018-02-05-14.00.html | 14:39 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2018/nova_scheduler.2018-02-05-14.00.txt | 14:39 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2018/nova_scheduler.2018-02-05-14.00.log.html | 14:39 |
| cdent | thanks edleafe | 14:39 |
| bauzas | you haven't said "three times" | 14:39 |
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| edleafe | you snooze you lose | 14:40 |
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| corvus | anyone around for a zuul meeting | 22:00 |
| fungi | yup | 22:00 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 22:00 |
| clarkb | hello | 22:00 |
| Shrews | present | 22:00 |
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| corvus | #startmeeting zuul | 22:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Feb 5 22:01:05 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is corvus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zuul' | 22:01 |
| corvus | #topic Agenda | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:01 | |
| corvus | there is no agenda in the wiki https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Zuul | 22:01 |
| jhesketh | o/ | 22:01 |
| corvus | #link agenda (or lack thereof) https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Zuul | 22:01 |
| fungi | the best kind of agenda | 22:01 |
| corvus | anyone have anything they want to talk about? | 22:02 |
| clarkb | the inap situation has maybe showed us that fixing timeouts is more important? | 22:02 |
| clarkb | granted the actual fix there was to fix the cloud | 22:02 |
| corvus | #topic timeouts | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "timeouts (Meeting topic: zuul)" | 22:03 | |
| corvus | clarkb: can you elaborate? | 22:03 |
| clarkb | Last week we had trouble with instances in inap which resulted in slow disk and slow networking (as I understand it) | 22:03 |
| corvus | which timeouts, and how were they broken? | 22:03 |
| clarkb | this caused jobs to timeout but it took them like 6 hours to do so because we apply the timeout to each run stage rather than the job as a whole | 22:03 |
| corvus | ah yep. that much at least should be a relatively easy change, as soon as we decide how we want to implement it. | 22:04 |
| clarkb | this was painful beacuse it meant that jobs weren't getting rescheduled (relatively) quickly on new nodes and instead were sitting around for a quarter of a day before failing | 22:04 |
| clarkb | (I think the rescheduling would've had to be manual via recheck in this case) | 22:04 |
| fungi | pathological scenario though, where the reused ssh connection basically becomes a blackhole for teh commands being passed in | 22:04 |
| corvus | we could go ahead and give the entire job the timeout budget. so if the timeout is 2h, and the pre playbook takes 2h, we will timeout. | 22:05 |
| corvus | that's probably not ideal, but it's probably better than what we have now. | 22:05 |
| corvus | (i think the ideal thing would maybe be per-playbook timouts, so pre could have a 10m timeout, and run could have 2h) | 22:06 |
| clarkb | ya I think thats what I have in mind as far as addressing it | 22:06 |
| clarkb | another approach would be to specify three timeouts one for each run stage | 22:06 |
| corvus | but we can implement cumulative job timout fairly easily, and then maybe talk about per-playbook timeouts later. | 22:06 |
| corvus | or per-stage | 22:06 |
| clarkb | but I think for user simplicity a single timeout is easy to understand | 22:06 |
| mordred | yah. I think entire job the timeout budget to start, and maybe enhacing in the future to have per-playbook timeouts? | 22:06 |
| corvus | i feel like both of those are things we can do now, and change later without much disruption | 22:07 |
| mordred | ++ | 22:07 |
| fungi | any of the above ideas seems fine to me. as long as a job that sometimes needs 3h for its run playbook doesn't end up potentially hung through 5x that because it gets the same timeout applied to two run playbooks and two post playbooks | 22:07 |
| corvus | with the first update to cumulative timeout, folks *may* need to increase timouts a bit. but hopefully not much. | 22:07 |
| clarkb | was there a particular issue that prevented us from implementing this behavior before (I want ot say I heard there was but don't know details) | 22:08 |
| fungi | er, to two pre playbooks and two post playbooks | 22:08 |
| dmsimard | fungi: I guess it's even worse if the timeout ends up occurring in pre which has the job retry | 22:08 |
| clarkb | corvus: I think most people implemented the timeout values mostly as if they were cummulative | 22:08 |
| corvus | clarkb: nope, just nobody typed the words into a text editor. | 22:08 |
| fungi | dmsimard: which happened in some cases | 22:08 |
| clarkb | cool, in that case I may try to poke at change the behavior | 22:08 |
| corvus | dmsimard: if it times out in pre, it will retry the job. (and therefore, the timer would reset). i assume that we'd generally want to continue that. | 22:09 |
| fungi | clarkb: i think the reason was that for converted jobs we had one timeout value, and passing a timeout to the playbook was relatively trivial to implement | 22:10 |
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| fungi | since that's an ansible feature already | 22:10 |
| corvus | there will be a case where we'll hit the timeout 3 times in 3 retries, and we'll be sad. but i think by and large, the kind of error we'd expect a timeout to represent is exactly the kind of error we usually want to retry. | 22:10 |
| clarkb | fungi: gotcha so it was just less accounting in zuul makes sense | 22:10 |
| dmsimard | corvus: +1 | 22:10 |
| corvus | (in pre, of course) | 22:11 |
| fungi | ahh, yeah i guess timing out one of the pre playbooks would have gotten the job aborted regardless of the ssh connection state | 22:11 |
| clarkb | I can look into that probably tomorrow if not later today | 22:11 |
| clarkb | still catching up on being largely afk for almost two weeks | 22:11 |
| corvus | #action clarkb make timeout cumulative in executor | 22:12 |
| corvus | any other topics? | 22:12 |
| fungi | some changes landed for a memory governor i guess? and there's question as to whether it's working as intended? | 22:12 |
| corvus | yeah, i'm trying to sort that out now. | 22:13 |
| corvus | we're hoping that will keep us from oom-killing the log streamer | 22:13 |
| fungi | fingers crossed | 22:13 |
| corvus | but at this point, i have a bunch of confusing data. i'll keep brain-dumping into #zuul as i work through it, and bug people when i've got a coherent idea sorted | 22:14 |
| fungi | thanks! | 22:14 |
| corvus | if there's nothing else -- let's get back to it :) | 22:15 |
| Shrews | fyi, i will be away beginning this thursday through (and including) the following thursday | 22:15 |
| fungi | nothing else from me | 22:15 |
| Shrews | so don't break nuttin | 22:15 |
| corvus | Shrews: ah thanks! | 22:15 |
| corvus | Shrews: anything we should try to get into prod before you leave? | 22:16 |
| corvus | or get merged | 22:16 |
| Shrews | corvus: nothing urgent. we've merged some good fixes to nodepool recently. perhaps we should restart the launchers? | 22:16 |
| clarkb | I will be missing the next meeting as I'm doing taxes and its cheaper if I do them before the 15th | 22:16 |
| corvus | Shrews: probably a good idea | 22:17 |
| corvus | okay, thanks everyone! | 22:17 |
| corvus | #endmeeting | 22:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 22:17 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Feb 5 22:17:32 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:17 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2018/zuul.2018-02-05-22.01.html | 22:17 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2018/zuul.2018-02-05-22.01.txt | 22:17 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2018/zuul.2018-02-05-22.01.log.html | 22:17 |
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