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| zhongjun_ | hi | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| tbarron | #startmeeting manila | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Apr 12 15:01:00 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tbarron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:01 | |
| amito | hello o/ | 15:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:01 |
| markstur | hi | 15:01 |
| bswartz | .o/ | 15:01 |
| ganso | hello | 15:01 |
| dustins | hey hey \o | 15:01 |
| tbarron | manila courtesy ping: gouthamr zhongjun xyang markstur vponomaryov cknight toabctl bswartz ganso | 15:01 |
| zhongjun_ | hi | 15:01 |
| tbarron | bswartz: :) | 15:01 |
| tbarron | Hi all | 15:01 |
| tbarron | #topic announcements | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:01 | |
| toabctl | hi | 15:02 |
| tbarron | toabctl: hi | 15:02 |
| tbarron | Sunday is the deadline for Forum submissions, so pls. update | 15:02 |
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| tbarron | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-manila-brainstorming | 15:02 |
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| tbarron | Unless there are updates to that etherpad I'll go with what's there. | 15:03 |
| tbarron | Spec freeze is 19 April, one week from today. | 15:03 |
| tbarron | We'll talk about specs in more detail in a moment. | 15:03 |
| tbarron | Any other announcements? | 15:03 |
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| gouthamr | o/ | 15:04 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: hi | 15:04 |
| * tbarron passes gouthamr a cup of coffee | 15:04 | |
| vkmc | o/ | 15:05 |
| gouthamr | thank you tbarron :P | 15:05 |
| * tbarron passes vkmc aspirin (for manila-ui) | 15:05 | |
| vkmc | oh so much needed | 15:05 |
| vkmc | \o/ | 15:05 |
| tbarron | #agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Meetings#Next_meeting | 15:06 |
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| tbarron | #topic spec reviews | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "spec reviews (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:06 | |
| tbarron | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-rocky-specs | 15:06 |
| tbarron | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/553662/ | 15:07 |
| tbarron | This one has some momentum | 15:07 |
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| tbarron | If anyone has concerns about backwards compatability for APIs returning the wrong codes speak fast | 15:07 |
| bswartz | I already reviewed this -- for some reason I didn't press the +2 button | 15:07 |
| tbarron | not fast, I mean raise your concerns or forever hold your peace :) | 15:08 |
| tbarron | bswartz: cool | 15:08 |
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| tbarron | We'll skip the next one (access rule) since it has its own topic. | 15:08 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/546301 | 15:08 |
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| tbarron | dustins: can you work with the author to resolve your -1 ? | 15:09 |
| gouthamr | I agree with dustins that the diff is hard to read | 15:09 |
| tbarron | dustins: I think you don't object to the actual correction, right? | 15:09 |
| dustins | tbarron: Indeed | 15:10 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: dustins: so please reach out and get that procedural issue resolved | 15:10 |
| dustins | And yes, I can do so, thanks for the reminder | 15:10 |
| tbarron | dustins: thanks much | 15:10 |
| tbarron | Anyone have material objections to this one? | 15:10 |
| tbarron | It's pretty minimal. | 15:10 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/551106/ | 15:11 |
| tbarron | metadata for access rule resource | 15:11 |
| gouthamr | haven't reviewed past zhongjun's latest changes.. | 15:11 |
| tbarron | looks like it has review attention | 15:11 |
| gouthamr | but important point to note here is the list API is going to change | 15:11 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: ack, so please keep the review going | 15:11 |
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| zhongjun_ | yes, I fixed bunch of comments | 15:12 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: do you have any fundamental objections at this point, or just fixups? | 15:12 |
| gouthamr | zhongjun_: please correct me if that's incorrect, you do plan on adding a new API to list access rules and that API will allow filtering on metadata? | 15:12 |
| zhongjun_ | gouthamr: yes | 15:13 |
| gouthamr | i.e, the existing API will be unchanged, and will continue to work as is, you won't be able to use it to filter by metadata | 15:13 |
| zhongjun_ | gouthamr: the existing list API already use POST action | 15:13 |
| gouthamr | zhongjun_: yes.. i guess we should add these points to the spec | 15:14 |
| zhongjun_ | tbarron: I thought it just fixups, gouthamr: right? | 15:15 |
| gouthamr | zhongjun_: yes, mostly | 15:15 |
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| tbarron | gouthamr: zhongjun_ is this one close enough that the remaining changes can be made by next week at this time? | 15:15 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: please see the bit about the API change, that's the only controversial part | 15:16 |
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| gouthamr | the current API is POST /shares/{share-id}/action to get a list of access rules | 15:16 |
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| gouthamr | a new API which will support filtering by access rule metadata will be GET /share-access?share_id={share-id}&key=value&key2=value2 | 15:17 |
| zhongjun_ | tbarron: It's about how to design API for list access rule | 15:17 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: zhongjun_ right, we're stuck with the old POST but does it make sense to use a GET for the new api to, umm, get ? | 15:18 |
| ganso | so with the microversion bump the POST /shares/{share-id}/action will start rejecting calls for that access-list action and only the new one will work, right? | 15:18 |
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| ganso | IIRC correctly share list API is a GET, so why shouldn't this be? | 15:19 |
| tbarron | zhongjun_: do you disagree? | 15:19 |
| gouthamr | yeah, all of the list APIs are GETs | 15:19 |
| ganso | s/'correctly'/'' | 15:19 |
| zhongjun_ | tbarron: I am not disagree, but it is a little big change | 15:20 |
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| zhongjun_ | so I think we should put it on the meeting | 15:21 |
| tbarron | zhongjun_: This is the meeting :) | 15:21 |
| gouthamr | :) +1 | 15:21 |
| zhongjun_ | If there isn't any to against it, then we could go on | 15:22 |
| tbarron | zhongjun_: are you saying that you are willing to revise the new spec such that the new API will be a GET rather than a POST ? | 15:23 |
| tbarron | s/the new spec/the spec/ | 15:23 |
| zhongjun_ | yes | 15:25 |
| tbarron | zhongjun_: thanks | 15:25 |
| gouthamr | ganso: yes, we'll be setting a maximum microversion on the old API | 15:25 |
| tbarron | #topic New Drivers | 15:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New Drivers (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:25 | |
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| tbarron | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-rocky-drivers | 15:25 |
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| tbarron | We have two new driver submissions, both of which are passing CI now. | 15:26 |
| tbarron | So it's time to sign up for reviews. | 15:26 |
| zhongjun_ | cool | 15:26 |
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| gouthamr | are passing the gate checks but not their own third-party CI | 15:27 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: you must love reviewing drivers | 15:27 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: i must love reviewing | 15:27 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: yeah, put a -1 in there and say that | 15:27 |
| tbarron | they've asked for reviews | 15:27 |
| tbarron | I'll encourage people who have recently added drivers | 15:28 |
| tbarron | hint hint | 15:28 |
| tbarron | to review | 15:28 |
| amito | who're you hinting to? ;) | 15:28 |
| tbarron | amito: oh, not you :) | 15:28 |
| amito | oh, good then :P | 15:28 |
| tbarron | You'll be able to help and also be able to note where common problems could be solved by common code :) | 15:29 |
| tbarron | And stuff like that. | 15:29 |
| tbarron | Let's get these reviews going early enough so that there are no surprises. | 15:29 |
| tbarron | Anything else on this topic? | 15:29 |
| tbarron | #topic priority for access rules spec | 15:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "priority for access rules spec (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:30 | |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/552935 | 15:30 |
| tbarron | zhongjun_: this one is yours, right? | 15:30 |
| zhongjun_ | yes | 15:30 |
| zhongjun_ | Do we require a limitation for value of the access rule priority (1~100) | 15:31 |
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| tbarron | I forget the reasoning you and bswartz gave for having a limited range | 15:32 |
| zhongjun_ | I remember we discussed in PTG, we agreed that the value of priority is "1-100", bswartz: right? if my member is right | 15:32 |
| tbarron | It wasn't that there aren't enough integers | 15:32 |
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| bswartz | We never need more priorities than there are bits in a netmask for ip-based rules | 15:32 |
| bswartz | 100 is a good round number that fits into human brains | 15:33 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: does that address your concern? | 15:33 |
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| zhongjun_ | gouthamr's question is if we have more access rules, more than 100, is it work? | 15:33 |
| bswartz | For user-based rules, you'd never need more priorities than there are groups that contain the same user | 15:33 |
| bswartz | There's no problem with using the same priority for multiple rules, as long as the rules don't overlap | 15:34 |
| ganso | the range is not for different access rules, just for overlapping ones | 15:34 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: no | 15:34 |
| gouthamr | there's no such limitation on adding access rules, so why bother adding a limit? | 15:34 |
| bswartz | Putting a limit on the priority number is a subtle indication to users about how the feature should be used | 15:35 |
| bswartz | In reality there is no need to limit it | 15:35 |
| bswartz | But I think 1-100 will result in better usuability | 15:35 |
| gouthamr | ganso: agreed that this feature is for overlapping rules, but having an API check around something that isn't really limited is kinda weird | 15:35 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: maybe we should add a hint in the UI? | 15:35 |
| bswartz | Limits make users happier | 15:36 |
| * gouthamr thinks of ONTAP's limits... smiles | 15:36 | |
| amito | gouthamr: which hint? the order in which the rules are shown? | 15:36 |
| bswartz | If we leave it unbound people will wonder about negative numbers higher than 4.2 billion | 15:36 |
| bswartz | If we leave it unbound people will wonder about negative numbers and numbers higher than 4.2 billion | 15:36 |
| ganso | if 100 isn't big enough we can make it bigger | 15:37 |
| tbarron | And they might wonder a couple of times too | 15:37 |
| bswartz | When people see there's a small range, they get the message that they don't need that many different priorities | 15:37 |
| tbarron | :) | 15:37 |
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| gouthamr | bswartz: a valid value is any positive integer | 15:37 |
| bswartz | Incuding numbers higher than 64 bits? | 15:37 |
| bswartz | That might break mariadb | 15:38 |
| zhongjun_ | or make it could be configed ? | 15:38 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: you could theoretically have >100 rules and assume you can only do so many | 15:38 |
| gouthamr | s/and/but | 15:38 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: Yes but that's around the point that you're doing something wrong even ignoring priorities | 15:40 |
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| gouthamr | bswartz: i agree validation is important, but the limit may seem confusing to the end user | 15:40 |
| bswartz | We can support over 100 rules, but there's probably not a good use case for it | 15:40 |
| bswartz | I don't feel strongly on this | 15:40 |
| tbarron | bswartz: gouthamr why don't you two take this one offline | 15:41 |
| amito | How do you handle two rules with the same priority? (and how does it show in the ui?) does the spec address that? I don't remember | 15:41 |
| tbarron | bswartz: gouthamr specc should indicate the reasoninig for the choice | 15:41 |
| tbarron | bswartz: gouthamr and talk about ipv6 explicitly | 15:41 |
| bswartz | amito: same priority means the order between them is arbitrary (how it is today for all rules) | 15:41 |
| tbarron | why 64 max with 128 bit addresses | 15:41 |
| tbarron | bswartz: so that is my real concern | 15:41 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: agreed, i was asking zhongjun_ for the reason from the PTG because i wasn't around and the spec didn't mention what it was | 15:41 |
| zhongjun_ | amito: I added the example in the spec | 15:41 |
| bswartz | tbarron: that's easy, it's in the RFC | 15:42 |
| amito | bswartz: then there should be some precedence based on other attributes (access type / address range / etc.) | 15:42 |
| tbarron | I'm not sure that the spec solves the problem it's intended to address | 15:42 |
| tbarron | bswartz: I just said put it in the spec :) pointing to rfc is fine | 15:42 |
| tbarron | back to the problem, ambiguity in our access rules | 15:42 |
| tbarron | what will this one mean? | 15:43 |
| bswartz | #link https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7421 | 15:43 |
| tbarron | A 192.168.1.0/24 RO 5 | 15:43 |
| tbarron | A 192.168.1.10 RW 1 | 15:43 |
| tbarron | 5 is higher | 15:43 |
| tbarron | order is irrelevant | 15:44 |
| bswartz | 1 is higher than 5 | 15:44 |
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| tbarron | I don't care which is higher, but I thought the spec said 5 is higher. | 15:44 |
| bswartz | Priorities always sort backwards | 15:44 |
| ganso | tbarron: the spec states the lowest number is higher priority | 15:44 |
| tbarron | Read the example such aht the more general rule is higher priority. | 15:45 |
| tbarron | ganso: kk | 15:45 |
| tbarron | what does that mean? | 15:45 |
| gouthamr | "The lower number have the higher priority" | 15:45 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: right, so let me re-do the example | 15:45 |
| tbarron | A 192.168.1.0/24 RO 1 | 15:45 |
| zhongjun_ | ganso: yes, because we could have multiple overlap access rule than 5 ? | 15:45 |
| tbarron | A 192.168.1.10 RW 5 | 15:45 |
| bswartz | ^ In this example the second rule is effectively ignored | 15:46 |
| ganso | in that example the RW ones is pointless | 15:46 |
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| bswartz | However, we keep it in the database because if the other rule is deleted (denied) then it suddenly has meaning | 15:46 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: it doesn't though | 15:46 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: oh, you mean the subnet rule | 15:47 |
| ganso | gouthamr: the RW one | 15:47 |
| gouthamr | ganso: if the access for 192.168.1.0/24 is denied, the RW one actually works | 15:47 |
| ganso | gouthamr: yes | 15:47 |
| tbarron | I am not sure this is implementable naturally on all backends | 15:47 |
| tbarron | a backend that matches most specific over more general for example | 15:48 |
| ganso | tbarron: the ordering that could cause a rule to be ignored does not prevent them from being sent to the backend | 15:48 |
| bswartz | All we need to do is implement the sorting in the share manager and document what the ordering of the rules now has meaning | 15:48 |
| tbarron | or we could document that more specific over general has meaning | 15:49 |
| gouthamr | bswartz: +1, that's where i'm caught up with this feature | 15:49 |
| tbarron | which would avoid nonsense entries like the one I gave | 15:49 |
| bswartz | If the backend can interpret the meaning correctly, then they should all be sent to to the backend -- otherwise the driver may want to perform some preprocessing | 15:49 |
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| tbarron | and backends that process first match priority would just sort more specific first | 15:49 |
| tbarron | That would be unambiguous semantics. | 15:49 |
| tbarron | With less chance of user error. | 15:49 |
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| tbarron | Clear rules. | 15:50 |
| tbarron | No need for assigning priorities. | 15:50 |
| bswartz | The priorities are about the API not the driver | 15:51 |
| tbarron | API has clear rules with more specific wins. | 15:51 |
| bswartz | Right now if I have 2 overlapping rules defined, and they're in the wrong order, I have no choice but to delete them and add them back in the right order | 15:51 |
| bswartz | Adding priorities allows me to reorder them without deleting anything | 15:51 |
| tbarron | It allows a lot of confusion | 15:51 |
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| tbarron | And therefore support cases. | 15:52 |
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| bswartz | The current situation leads to incorrect behavior and tough-to-solve problems | 15:52 |
| tbarron | Proving to customers that they shot themselves in the foot and deserve to hurt. | 15:52 |
| bswartz | I'm not sure which is worse | 15:52 |
| ganso | tbarron: o_O | 15:52 |
| tbarron | I'm not for the current situation, to be clear. | 15:52 |
| ganso | tbarron: oh | 15:52 |
| tbarron | I think this spec poses the problem well. | 15:52 |
| tbarron | Currenlty we have ambiguity. | 15:53 |
| ganso | tbarron: so we should document it correctly | 15:53 |
| tbarron | I'm just not sure at this point that user assigned priorities are the best solution. | 15:53 |
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| tbarron | "more specific wins" is a familiar semantic from routing | 15:53 |
| ganso | tbarron: implementation-wise it doesn't seem there much to improve on usability | 15:53 |
| zhongjun_ | we should document it in the spec or a special doc? | 15:53 |
| bswartz | Didn't someone point out that a real cloud provider today implements this with priority numbers? | 15:54 |
| bswartz | (One that's not using openstack) | 15:54 |
| tbarron | bswartz: mebbe, AWS? | 15:54 |
| gouthamr | AWS doesn't have access rule priority last i checked | 15:54 |
| tbarron | Let's take some time to think about this one a bit more even if it means extending the spec deadline for it. | 15:55 |
| zhongjun_ | bswartz: aliyun implement this with priority numbers today | 15:55 |
| gouthamr | see https://docs.aws.amazon.com/efs/latest/ug/gs-step-two-create-efs-resources.html | 15:55 |
| tbarron | I'm convinced that there's a real problem. | 15:55 |
| tbarron | But let's get a solution that we'll be happy with down the road. | 15:55 |
| bswartz | I think priorities are pretty straightforward | 15:56 |
| tbarron | #topic New Bugs | 15:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New Bugs (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:56 | |
| gouthamr | zhongjun_: do you have a link to their documentation | 15:56 |
| bswartz | Think of how a UI could be built for this feature | 15:56 |
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| bswartz | It would just be a listbox with ^ and v buttons | 15:56 |
| tbarron | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-bug-triage-pad | 15:57 |
| tbarron | dustins: you're up | 15:57 |
| zhongjun_ | gouthamr: I am finding | 15:57 |
| tbarron | bswartz: we'll talk some more .... | 15:57 |
| amito | I think you skipped the second bullet, but we're out of time in 3 min anyway | 15:57 |
| tbarron | amito: oh sorry | 15:57 |
| amito | It's ok, maybe we should move this off-meeting | 15:58 |
| gouthamr | zhongjun_: found it | 15:58 |
| gouthamr | #link https://www.alibabacloud.com/help/doc-detail/27534.htm?spm=a3c0i.o27533en.b99.23.77643ad5TzJF1D | 15:58 |
| tbarron | amito: ok | 15:58 |
| zhongjun_ | Do we have conclution | 15:58 |
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| gouthamr | 1-100 :D | 15:58 |
| tbarron | zhongjun_: no | 15:58 |
| dustins | amito: Feel free to continue, my bugs will take more time than is remaining | 15:58 |
| tbarron | zhongjun_: but we'll give more time if we need to | 15:58 |
| tbarron | zhongjun_: for the spec | 15:58 |
| gouthamr | "When the same authorization object matches multiple rules, the rule with the highest priority overwrites the remaining rules." | 15:58 |
| zhongjun_ | tbarron: thanks | 15:58 |
| bswartz | gouthamr: +1 | 15:59 |
| gouthamr | oops, i'm messing up the meeting log, sorry tbarron | 15:59 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: that's ok | 15:59 |
| bswartz | We can always #undo the topic change | 15:59 |
| tbarron | #undo | 15:59 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #link https://www.alibabacloud.com/help/doc-detail/27534.htm?spm=a3c0i.o27533en.b99.23.77643ad5TzJF1D | 15:59 |
| bswartz | Doh that undid the #link | 15:59 |
| amito | I might've missed if you discussed it above since I was afk for awhile now, but how do we handle overlapping allow-deny rules? gouthamr and bswartz stated that priority is irrelevant for deny rules, but I don't think that's the case. | 16:00 |
| ganso | lol | 16:00 |
| gouthamr | hahaa | 16:00 |
| tbarron | #undo | 16:00 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/manila-bug-triage-pad | 16:00 |
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| tbarron | #undo | 16:00 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #topic New Bugs | 16:00 |
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| gouthamr | rollback :P | 16:00 |
| ganso | time check | 16:00 |
| tbarron | #link https://www.alibabacloud.com/help/doc-detail/27534.htm?spm=a3c0i.o27533en.b99.23.77643ad5TzJF1D | 16:00 |
| tbarron | Thanks everyone!! | 16:00 |
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| gouthamr | amito: #openstack-manila? | 16:01 |
| amito | gouthamr: kk | 16:01 |
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| tbarron | let's continue in #openstack-manila | 16:01 |
| tbarron | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Apr 12 16:01:15 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2018/manila.2018-04-12-15.01.html | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2018/manila.2018-04-12-15.01.txt | 16:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2018/manila.2018-04-12-15.01.log.html | 16:01 |
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