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| masahito | #startmeeting blazar | 09:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 8 09:00:17 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is masahito. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: blazar)" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'blazar' | 09:00 |
| masahito | #topic RollCall | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RollCall (Meeting topic: blazar)" | 09:00 | |
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| bertys_ | o/ | 09:01 |
| bertys_ | masahito: hi | 09:01 |
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| bertys_ | hiro-kobayashi: hi | 09:02 |
| hiro-kobayashi | hi all! | 09:02 |
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| masahito | Today's agenda is | 09:02 |
| masahito | 1. placement support | 09:02 |
| masahito | 2. AOB | 09:02 |
| masahito | less topics | 09:02 |
| masahito | anything else? | 09:02 |
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| masahito | bertys_, hiro-kobayashi: hello | 09:03 |
| masahito | #topic placement support | 09:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "placement support (Meeting topic: blazar)" | 09:04 | |
| masahito | In last meeting hiro-kobayashi shared design idea for placement support. | 09:04 |
| masahito | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/blazar-placement-design | 09:05 |
| masahito | and asked us to comment for the approach. | 09:05 |
| masahito | I commented this week. | 09:05 |
| masahito | hiro-kobayashi: any update for the design? | 09:06 |
| hiro-kobayashi | thanks for comments and adding details! | 09:06 |
| masahito | As we discussed before, I'd like to share the idea to openstack-dev ML before the Vancouver summit. | 09:06 |
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| hiro-kobayashi | masashito: thanks. | 09:08 |
| masahito | My main question for the design is will host reservation ask user to choose private flavor instead of scheduler hint? | 09:08 |
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| hiro-kobayashi | IIRC, scheduler filter is not recommended because it affects inter-operability. | 09:09 |
| hiro-kobayashi | So, I think it's better to use a private flavor. | 09:10 |
| hiro-kobayashi | However, it will increase the number of flavors... | 09:10 |
| masahito | yes. | 09:12 |
| hiro-kobayashi | Does 4 need a private flavor? | 09:13 |
| masahito | My concern is how host reservation create its flavors and count the usage. | 09:13 |
| hiro-kobayashi | How does the lease owner specify the allocation ID? | 09:13 |
| masahito | My understand is yes for instance reservation but no for host reservation. | 09:14 |
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| masahito | IIRC, Nova doesn't have the feature now. | 09:15 |
| masahito | We need to propose it. | 09:15 |
| bertys_ | hiro-kobayashi, masahito: What about focusing first on instance reservation only? | 09:16 |
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| masahito | bertys_: yes. | 09:17 |
| hiro-kobayashi | bertys_: make sense but it's better to consider both for basic design. | 09:18 |
| masahito | I also thought we need to handle 3 items with placement, freepool, host reservation and instance reservation, when I read the design. | 09:18 |
| hiro-kobayashi | masahito: Yes. And another item is capacity query. It's an advanced topic, thogh. | 09:20 |
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| masahito | There could be another Nova-ish approach. Once we've written down our concern, it's good to share Nova team ASAP. | 09:20 |
| hiro-kobayashi | I mean, using placement for the 'reservation candidates' API | 09:20 |
| hiro-kobayashi | masahito: Agree. | 09:21 |
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| masahito | hiro-kobayashi: do you have a planning date to share it to the team? | 09:22 |
| hiro-kobayashi | No, but before the summit. | 09:23 |
| masahito | If possible, I'd like to share it before next meeting because we can discuss the reaction from the team in weekly meeting and Blazar's forum session is on Monday in the summit. | 09:25 |
| masahito | s/in weekly meeting/ in the next weekly meeting/ | 09:25 |
| bertys_ | From the analysis, it seems right now that we have three options on the table for instance reservation: (#1 and #3) or (#2 and #3) or 4 as REQ3 is mandatory req IMHO | 09:26 |
| hiro-kobayashi | Do you mean Placement weekly meeting? | 09:26 |
| bertys_ | with (#1 and #3)= #5 | 09:26 |
| bertys_ | sorry (#1 and #3) would be #6 ); | 09:27 |
| masahito | hiro-kobayashi: the blazar weekly meeting | 09:27 |
| hiro-kobayashi | bertys_: I thinks #1 can satisfy REQ 1-3. so #1, #4, #5 | 09:28 |
| hiro-kobayashi | are the possible approach. | 09:29 |
| hiro-kobayashi | masahito: got it | 09:29 |
| masahito | #5 only works for the instance reservation, right? | 09:30 |
| hiro-kobayashi | masahito: I thinks it can be used for both of host and instance. However, host reservation has a problem of the number of flavor. | 09:31 |
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| masahito | hiro-kobayashi: Additionally, how does blazar count the max of CUSTOM_RESOURCE in host reservation? | 09:33 |
| bertys_ | hiro-kobayashi: Have you already investigated whether 1) is sufficient or a combination of 1) and 3) would be necessary to support REQ3? | 09:34 |
| hiro-kobayashi | masahito: good point! I thinks blazar should not (cannot) count max | 09:35 |
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| hiro-kobayashi | bertys_: Yes. But a patch is needed. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/561842/ | 09:36 |
| hiro-kobayashi | This patch enables update of the usage of nested resources when launching an instance. | 09:37 |
| bertys_ | hiro-kobayashi: Okay, thanks for sharing this info | 09:37 |
| masahito | nice. | 09:38 |
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| hiro-kobayashi | I added info to the etherpad page | 09:39 |
| masahito | okay, another comment for the design? | 09:42 |
| masahito | if nothing, let's move on to next. | 09:42 |
| bertys_ | hiro-kobayashi: thanks, I need to catch up again with nested RPs ); Things are moving fast now | 09:42 |
| masahito | #topic AOB | 09:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: blazar)" | 09:45 | |
| masahito | Does someone have topics to share/discuss? | 09:46 |
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| masahito | I'll share my update. | 09:47 |
| masahito | I pushed the patches for multi-freepools and flavor-extra-specs. | 09:47 |
| masahito | multi-freepools: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/564138/ | 09:48 |
| masahito | flavor-extra-specs: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/blazar+branch:master+topic:bp/flavors-extra-specs | 09:48 |
| masahito | Please review the patces. | 09:48 |
| masahito | That's from my side. | 09:48 |
| hiro-kobayashi | Great! | 09:49 |
| hiro-kobayashi | My test env is down now, so I'll review and test them as soon as it goes up. | 09:49 |
| masahito | thanks | 09:50 |
| bertys_ | I have reached out to Jean-Philippe (Ansible PTL) yesterday and there are few patches related to Blazar under review now e.g. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/566541/. Looks good so far | 09:50 |
| bertys_ | I am also planning to attend OpenStack PTG in Denver. Tentatively from Sep. 11 to 14 | 09:52 |
| masahito | Good to hear. | 09:52 |
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| masahito | anything else? if nothing, let's finish the meeting early. | 09:54 |
| hiro-kobayashi | Nothing from my side | 09:54 |
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| masahito | OK, thanks everyone! | 09:56 |
| hiro-kobayashi | thanks! bye | 09:56 |
| masahito | #endmeeting | 09:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 09:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 8 09:56:35 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/blazar/2018/blazar.2018-05-08-09.00.html | 09:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/blazar/2018/blazar.2018-05-08-09.00.txt | 09:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/blazar/2018/blazar.2018-05-08-09.00.log.html | 09:56 |
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| lbragstad | #startmeeting keystone | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 8 16:00:24 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is lbragstad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 16:00 | |
| cmurphy | o/ | 16:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 16:00 |
| knikolla | o/ | 16:00 |
| hrybacki | o/ | 16:00 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 16:00 |
| gagehugo | o/ | 16:00 |
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| wxy| | o/ | 16:00 |
| lbragstad | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 16:00 |
| lbragstad | agenda ^ | 16:00 |
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| kmalloc | O/ | 16:01 |
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| lbragstad | we have a good mix of folks here - so we can go ahead and get started | 16:02 |
| lbragstad | #topic New direction with default roles | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New direction with default roles (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 16:02 | |
| lbragstad | thanks to jroll we got a bunch of good infomraiton on the openstack-specs process last week | 16:02 |
| lbragstad | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-May/130207.html | 16:02 |
| lbragstad | summary ^ | 16:02 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/566377/ | 16:02 |
| lbragstad | new specification ^ | 16:02 |
| lbragstad | the TL;DR is that openstack-specs isn't really reviewed anymore, and sounds like it has been unofficially superseded by community goals | 16:03 |
| * hrybacki nods | 16:03 | |
| lbragstad | dhellmann: and mnaser had some really good input on the process too, and actually recommended that we propose the default roles thing as a community goal | 16:04 |
| lbragstad | (which i was pretty hesitant about) | 16:04 |
| lbragstad | just because of the volume of work | 16:04 |
| lbragstad | in the mean time, they suggested building out a solid template using keystone and a couple other services before we formally propose it as a community gaol | 16:04 |
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| lbragstad | which is what hrybacki has done with the new specification | 16:04 |
| hrybacki | We are hoping for Keystone, Barbican, and Octavia at a minimum | 16:05 |
| hrybacki | Regardless, I'd like to get a jump on the Keystone work sooner rather than later | 16:05 |
| lbragstad | i thought the encouragement for proposing this as a community goal was a good sign | 16:06 |
| hrybacki | +1 | 16:06 |
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| lbragstad | so - i guess what we need to decide here is whether or not to allow the specification proposal post specification proposal freeze | 16:06 |
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| kmalloc | I am ok with this one post freeze (tentatively, based upon cmnty feedback on community goals) | 16:07 |
| kmalloc | This is pretty well defined scope wise. | 16:07 |
| lbragstad | we also proposed it to openstack-specs a long time ago, so technically it's not a "new" proposal | 16:08 |
| knikolla | ++ | 16:08 |
| lbragstad | but.. going to formality | 16:08 |
| lbragstad | cross the i's, dot the t's | 16:08 |
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| dhellmann | keep in mind that before it can be accepted as a goal, we would need to see at least one project adopting it and general support for it across the other projects | 16:09 |
| cmurphy | the formalities are supposed to help us with planning work, moving the spec to a different repo isn't really changing anything for us | 16:09 |
| lbragstad | ++ cmurphy | 16:09 |
| lbragstad | we were planning on doing this work regardless i guess | 16:09 |
| kmalloc | Exactly. | 16:09 |
| lbragstad | cool - so no objections then, and it sounds like everyone is on the same page | 16:10 |
| lbragstad | i'll link to this discussion in the ml list | 16:10 |
| lbragstad | and we can go through the review process for the specification | 16:10 |
| hrybacki | +1 thanks lbragstad | 16:11 |
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| lbragstad | dhellmann: brings up a good point, because we'll have the opportunity to really make the template solid before proposing the community goal | 16:11 |
| lbragstad | so we could work in the system_scope stuff too | 16:11 |
| lbragstad | and hopefully provide a really clear picture of how the two concepts work together | 16:11 |
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| lbragstad | #topic getting patrole in CI | 16:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "getting patrole in CI (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 16:12 | |
| lbragstad | hrybacki: was this your topic? | 16:12 |
| hrybacki | aye | 16:13 |
| hrybacki | Okay, so this goes along with the default roles work. tl;dr we need a way to test it and CI is slow, slow, slow to bring in new features | 16:13 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/559137/ | 16:13 |
| hrybacki | and, now knowing that openstack-specs isn't really monitored, the original review in keystone-specs | 16:13 |
| hrybacki | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/464678/ | 16:13 |
| gagehugo | would this also be a good fit for a "community goal"? | 16:14 |
| hrybacki | gagehugo: yes. I think that these two go hand-in-hand | 16:14 |
| gagehugo | have some role testing in multiple projects | 16:14 |
| hrybacki | and testing it out in Keystone/Barbican would be a great place to start and work out the kinks | 16:14 |
| gagehugo | felipemonteriro__ ^ | 16:14 |
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| hrybacki | I'd like to see the original review picked back up, targetting a non-voting job against keystone changes. No way of knowing how long that will take tbh so getting the ball rolling know is preferential imo | 16:16 |
| gagehugo | adding a playbook to keystone is pretty simple now too | 16:16 |
| hrybacki | I don't see how this would pigeon hole us (I need to do more research on Patrole) but felipemonteiro__ is quite responsive | 16:16 |
| hrybacki | gagehugo: +1 | 16:16 |
| hrybacki | I know that ayoung was opposed to the original keystone-spec when we were targetting RBAC in middleware work. I'm hoping he'd be willing to remove it now however | 16:17 |
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| hrybacki | lbragstad: as we are past spec proposal freeze I can see how this might not be ideal for Rocky but is it possible to work on a PoC in the meantime? | 16:18 |
| ayoung | which one? | 16:18 |
| hrybacki | ayoung: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/464678/ | 16:18 |
| felipemonteiro__ | hrybacki: hi. i don't recall if i mentioned this in the spec, but i noticed keystone (particularly lbragstad) and others were committing only to openstack-specs, so i followed suit... i can backtrack too as well and update the one in keystone-specs. | 16:18 |
| hrybacki | felipemonteiro__: ack, we thought that was the current standard but it's not. Community Goals are where it's at but require adoption and support across several projects first | 16:19 |
| gagehugo | yeah I don't think openstack-specs is actively reviewed | 16:19 |
| ayoung | My issue with patrole is that I am afraid they are going to lock us in to the current, broken Bug 968696 stuff | 16:19 |
| openstack | bug 968696 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) ""admin"-ness not properly scoped" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968696 - Assigned to Adam Young (ayoung) | 16:19 |
| ayoung | I would be fine with it going in afterwards, or if there was a plan to mitigate | 16:19 |
| hrybacki | ayoung: how would it do that? | 16:19 |
| hrybacki | non-voting* | 16:19 |
| lbragstad | we could have a requirement to only add test cases for patrole once an API works in the new default roles and has scope_types set | 16:19 |
| ayoung | I've not gotten a sense from the Patrole team that they take the problem seriously enough | 16:19 |
| ayoung | TBH, if they care about policy, Patrole should be a distant second in effort | 16:20 |
| ayoung | getting the changes in for scope should be full court press | 16:20 |
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| ayoung | felipemonteiro__, you are the Patrole Point of contact? | 16:21 |
| hrybacki | ayoung: folks are working that. I'm wanting to work with the AT&T folks to lay out the legwork for Patrole. I'd like to have a testing strategy ready to go before submitting a Communtiy Goal for the default roles work | 16:21 |
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| hrybacki | I don't presume that goal will be accepted until T release | 16:23 |
| kmalloc | Patrole must come after new role work | 16:23 |
| felipemonteiro__ | ayoung: yes, as while others are active downstream, i work upstream too | 16:23 |
| hrybacki | I keep hearing that but I don't understand why | 16:23 |
| ayoung | felipemonteiro__, why do you care? | 16:23 |
| kmalloc | We can't lock in on the broken role setup we have now. | 16:23 |
| ayoung | felipemonteiro__, why did you build patrole? What was the impetus? | 16:23 |
| hrybacki | kmalloc: I don't get why it would do that | 16:24 |
| kmalloc | Gating on it locks us/wedges us deeper into where we are today that is seeing a lot of work to undig the hole | 16:24 |
| lbragstad | all the testing would require setup classes and infrastructure to assert scopes and things like that | 16:24 |
| felipemonteiro__ | i didn't build it, i helped contribute to it. i care because at&t cares about validating any rbac changes since our rbac customization is rather complex compared to most folks'. | 16:24 |
| hrybacki | non-voting jobs won't lock us in but they will give us a baseline to look back upon | 16:24 |
| ayoung | felipemonteiro__, that is the problem | 16:25 |
| gagehugo | kmalloc I would hope we wouldn't make it voting until the broken roles are fixed | 16:25 |
| ayoung | we need to change RBAC, radically | 16:25 |
| ayoung | because how it exists today is broken | 16:25 |
| hrybacki | I'm not asking us to put in an entire suite of tests -- I just want to ensure that the infrastructure is there for when we are ready to do just that (after role work is in) | 16:25 |
| kmalloc | hrybacki: try changing something tempest is locked in on. It at least extends the timeframe by 2-3 cycles, and may mean we are even longer pushing out for generalized acceptance/gating of the new way | 16:25 |
| ayoung | and if we test based on how it is today, we will not be able to fix it | 16:25 |
| ayoung | and I am firm on thiws | 16:25 |
| ayoung | this | 16:25 |
| ayoung | patrole, without a fix for 968696 is dangerous | 16:25 |
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| ayoung | and I have been burnt by this pattern before | 16:26 |
| ayoung | we had tests in tempest that assumed broken behavior | 16:26 |
| kmalloc | In short, it must come (anything that locks/gates/tests with voting) after new role work. | 16:26 |
| lbragstad | is there something preventing us from doing this incrementally? | 16:26 |
| ayoung | and we could not fix in Keystoner because then the tests would fail in tempest, and not pass gate etc | 16:26 |
| hrybacki | but how do we confirm role work is not broken without testing it? | 16:26 |
| hrybacki | also again non-voting** | 16:26 |
| ayoung | hrybacki, we know it IS broken today | 16:27 |
| lbragstad | if we add the default roles to an API in keystone, we can add a test to patrole after words to assert the correct behavior along with unit tests, can we not? | 16:27 |
| kmalloc | lbragstad: current roles are so narrow, if we test + vote now, we aren't going to be able to move the needle | 16:27 |
| ayoung | once we fix it, yes, patrole | 16:27 |
| ayoung | not until | 16:27 |
| kmalloc | So, we should setup patrole to test with the new defaults out the gate. | 16:27 |
| ayoung | felipemonteiro__, help out on the 968696 work and you will get my full supprt | 16:27 |
| kmalloc | Just not on the current broken RBAC setup. | 16:27 |
| felipemonteiro__ | ayoung: yeah you're right, we've had to seek out workarounds to said bug internally, including scoping adminness via sub-admin roles and the like, but as a result of which we had to have a means of validation. | 16:27 |
| ayoung | do we have scope changes for all services? | 16:27 |
| hrybacki | kmalloc: that is precisely what I'm shooting to do | 16:28 |
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| ayoung | felipemonteiro__, here is what I would accept | 16:28 |
| lbragstad | i think we've all said the same thing, just different ways | 16:28 |
| ayoung | a version of Patrole that fails due to bug 968696 | 16:28 |
| openstack | bug 968696 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) ""admin"-ness not properly scoped" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968696 - Assigned to Adam Young (ayoung) | 16:28 |
| ayoung | and that passes when we show changes go in that fix it | 16:28 |
| kmalloc | hrybacki: good, what ayoung and I are saying is we absolutely don't want to test current state of the world. | 16:28 |
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| kmalloc | We're on the same page. | 16:28 |
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| hrybacki | okay cool -- so tl;dr ensure the spec clearly indicates the non-voting* gate will be in place and testing against <how we expect success to look after things are resolved> | 16:29 |
| ayoung | hrybacki, ++ | 16:29 |
| gagehugo | hrybacki ++ | 16:29 |
| kmalloc | As long as we keep that in mind we are good. Standing patrole up for the new defaults is the confirm we have fixed 98696 | 16:29 |
| kmalloc | And don't regress. | 16:30 |
| hrybacki | this way we have infra in place, that won't interfere with fixes, and doesn't stick us into existing behaviors | 16:30 |
| kmalloc | ++ | 16:30 |
| kmalloc | Exactly. | 16:30 |
| hrybacki | excellent, thanks all :) | 16:30 |
| hrybacki | lbragstad: you right | 16:30 |
| lbragstad | it sounds like the patrole spec can be collapsed into the testing section of the default roles one | 16:30 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, do we have changes in place for, say cinder, neutron, glance, as well as nova? | 16:30 |
| lbragstad | ayoung: i've been working on patches for nova, but i haven't gotten everythign done yet | 16:30 |
| hrybacki | lbragstad: I'm not sure I want to tightly couple them but dont' have solid reasons to jusitfy that intuitino yet | 16:30 |
| lbragstad | waiting on the ksm patch and the oslo.context patch | 16:31 |
| ayoung | keep them separate, but link them at the related specs section | 16:31 |
| lbragstad | hrybacki: ayoung ok - wfm | 16:31 |
| hrybacki | are we okay to un-abandon https://review.openstack.org/#/c/464678/ in this case? | 16:31 |
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| felipemonteiro__ | ayoung: i can certainly try to assist in changing things w.r.t to things like system scoping but it's not my full time job, so any change that isn't forthcoming isn't because of a lack of agreement or consensus | 16:31 |
| hrybacki | I can work with felipemonteiro__ to bring it up-to-date given today's discussion | 16:32 |
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| ayoung | Its just a -1 | 16:32 |
| ayoung | hrybacki, TYVM | 16:32 |
| hrybacki | thanks for popping in felipemonteiro__ -- lbragstad that is all I have on that topic | 16:33 |
| lbragstad | cool | 16:34 |
| lbragstad | #topic multisite support | 16:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "multisite support (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 16:34 | |
| lbragstad | ayoung: i think this one was you? | 16:34 |
| zzzeek | hey this is me | 16:34 |
| lbragstad | hey zzzeek | 16:34 |
| zzzeek | i got alerted to a blueprint that ayoung is working on which is about something ive already been working on for months | 16:34 |
| ayoung | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/566448/ | 16:34 |
| zzzeek | which is being able to have multiple overclouds coordinate against a single keystone database | 16:34 |
| zzzeek | we've already worked out a deployment plan for this as well as solved a few thorny issues in making it work with very minimal tripleo changes | 16:35 |
| ayoung | the pattern we are seeing is that multi-site is not necessarily planned up front | 16:35 |
| ayoung | instead, a large organization might have several openstack deployments, and they realize that they need to be run as multiple regions of a single deployment | 16:35 |
| zzzeek | right...so i call it a "stretch" clsuter, where you take the two overclouds and then you add a glaera database that is "stretched" over the two or more overclouds | 16:36 |
| lbragstad | #link https://github.com/zzzeek/stretch_cluster/tree/standard_tripleo_version | 16:36 |
| zzzeek | so that's a working POC | 16:36 |
| kmalloc | Sounds like something icky to setup, but a good approach in general. | 16:36 |
| ayoung | For people not up-to-speed with Tripleo, overcloud is the term for the openstack cluster we care about | 16:36 |
| zzzeek | which does what it has to in order to make the two overclouds talk, so the plan is, make it nicer and make it not break with upgrades | 16:36 |
| ayoung | there is an undercloud using ironic but those are site specific | 16:36 |
| zzzeek | right so here we are assuming: tripleo, pacemaker / HA, docker containers, galera | 16:37 |
| kmalloc | The only sticky point is divergence of keystone data, afaict. | 16:37 |
| ayoung | zzzeek, and for the overcloud, we are supporting Keystone,nova,neutron,glance,swift, cinder, Sahara? | 16:37 |
| ayoung | kmalloc, it is a major stickypoint, yes | 16:38 |
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| kmalloc | Between the two sites (assuming these are existing clouds) | 16:38 |
| zzzeek | ayoung: keystone is the only service that actually communicates over the two overclouds. the rest of the servcies remain local to their overcloud | 16:38 |
| kmalloc | If it is strictly a new deployment, less icky. | 16:38 |
| zzzeek | so for the merging of data, O | 16:38 |
| zzzeek | I've been assuming that the overclouds are built up indepdendntly but plan to be merged immediately | 16:38 |
| ayoung | upgrades should be able to use the Keystone 0 downtime upgrade mechanism, | 16:39 |
| zzzeek | so the keystone DBs are built up individually using distinct region names | 16:39 |
| kmalloc | That is less problematic to address. | 16:39 |
| ayoung | role IDs should be synced | 16:39 |
| zzzeek | then the DBs are merged where all region-specific records are added | 16:39 |
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| kmalloc | Long running clouds would be hard (tm) | 16:39 |
| zzzeek | at the moment I just use SQL scripts inside of an ansible playbook to do this | 16:39 |
| ayoung | long running would require db conversion scripts, I would think | 16:39 |
| ayoung | not to be lightly undertaken, but not impossible | 16:40 |
| kmalloc | ayoung: yes. And it gets very sticky. | 16:40 |
| ayoung | just...don't try to do it while running the cloud | 16:40 |
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| kmalloc | zzzeek: we could wrap that into a keystone-manage (vs ansible) | 16:40 |
| kmalloc | And I'd be ok with that. | 16:40 |
| ayoung | i.e. stop keystone, run script, start keystone | 16:40 |
| ayoung | ++ | 16:40 |
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| zzzeek | kmalloc: yes it woudl be a keystone command | 16:40 |
| ayoung | the biggest problem I would expect would be the Default domain | 16:41 |
| kmalloc | ayoung: id is "default" | 16:41 |
| ayoung | everyone has one, and they have the same ID and Name, but then there are all the projects under | 16:41 |
| kmalloc | So, not a big issue. | 16:41 |
| ayoung | all of the projects under it will conflict, tho | 16:41 |
| zzzeek | kmalloc: but additional work here that is outside of keystone involves deploying the galera cluster across datacenters. since ayoung's spec is against tripleo, that would be part of it right? | 16:41 |
| kmalloc | This is not long running clouds, so manageable. | 16:41 |
| ayoung | so if you have 2 clouds, and each has a Production proejct, in default domain, they will have same names, different Ids | 16:42 |
| ayoung | right, | 16:42 |
| kmalloc | zzzeek: yes, with a spec/something for keystone to track against | 16:42 |
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| ayoung | for long running clouds, you would say "get everything off the default domain" | 16:42 |
| ayoung | before you could even consider something like this | 16:42 |
| kmalloc | But our side is pretty minimal, if you want to move it out of ansible.. non-existent if ansible is a-ok to continue with. | 16:43 |
| zzzeek | kmalloc: the ansible thing i have right now is not production grade since it is hardcoding SQL in it | 16:43 |
| ayoung | would that be something we could do in a migration? | 16:43 |
| ayoung | is it a run once type thing? | 16:43 |
| kmalloc | ayoung: unlikely. | 16:43 |
| zzzeek | ayoung: not really, it deosnt chagne the structure of the database, it's about data coming into the DB | 16:43 |
| kmalloc | But we can explore it. | 16:43 |
| zzzeek | ayoung: it's like, here's a keystone DB, heres a bunch of new services etc. from a new region | 16:44 |
| zzzeek | that can happen any number of times | 16:44 |
| lbragstad | and it must be idempotent, right? | 16:44 |
| kmalloc | Yeah, I would expect it to be idempotent | 16:44 |
| zzzeek | lbragstad: well if it's a keystone-manage command, it's always nice if it is but i dont know it's 100% necessary | 16:45 |
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| kmalloc | I think idempotent is a requirement. Risk of breaking things if it isn't is high | 16:45 |
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| zzzeek | kmalloc: sure. so keystone might need to have some knowledge of this | 16:45 |
| kmalloc | And up-arrow+enter could ruin a cloud. | 16:46 |
| zzzeek | e.g. the keystone db | 16:46 |
| zzzeek | kmalloc: yes if you're guarding against arrow-enter then yes, you need some kind of record that shows somehting already happened | 16:46 |
| kmalloc | Yep. | 16:46 |
| zzzeek | so i didn't manage to get "domains" to do this, keystone seemed pretty intent on "domain" being "default" | 16:46 |
| zzzeek | it seemed like "regions" were the correct concept | 16:46 |
| kmalloc | And keystone-manage commands are mostly safe to run anytime(tm) | 16:46 |
| zzzeek | is that not correct ? | 16:46 |
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| ayoung | so...from keystone-manage, we would want utilities to rename domains and regions. Anything else? | 16:47 |
| kmalloc | This sounds like regions to me. Domains are containers.. you'll need to replicate them, but that is fine. | 16:47 |
| zzzeek | kmalloc: here's the code right now: https://github.com/zzzeek/stretch_cluster/blob/standard_tripleo_version/roles/setup-keystone-db/tasks/main.yml#L29 | 16:47 |
| zzzeek | kmalloc: which got me a basic nova hello world going | 16:48 |
| kmalloc | Cool. | 16:48 |
| zzzeek | kmalloc: there's a copy of each keystone DB on the shared cluster, keystone1 and keystone2, and it just copies region and endpoint in and that's it | 16:48 |
| kmalloc | Yeah that should ultimately be doable via keystone-manage. | 16:48 |
| ayoung | Some of that is Tripleo specific, I think. If you install Keystone, you don't get any service catalog by default | 16:48 |
| zzzeek | kmalloc: seemed a little too simple | 16:48 |
| kmalloc | So, you're going to run into some issues with roles, projects, etx | 16:48 |
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| zzzeek | kmalloc: so the assumption i made was that, you've just deployed the two overclouds assuming this case so they have the same passwods, the same projects and roles, etc. | 16:49 |
| ayoung | ah...rigjht...role IDs should be sync-able, too | 16:49 |
| kmalloc | Basically that doesn't solve authn/authz across the clouds consistently | 16:49 |
| ayoung | and that will be an expensive database update | 16:49 |
| kmalloc | Project IDs are uuid4 generated | 16:49 |
| zzzeek | kmalloc: for our initial version we were going to keep it simple that the two overclouds can fold into each other | 16:49 |
| kmalloc | So, if any are created, IDs won't be the same. | 16:49 |
| ayoung | projects should be left alone | 16:49 |
| ayoung | the problem is if two clusters have the same project name in the same domain. New install, not an issue | 16:50 |
| kmalloc | Same with users, etc. Passwords are bcrypt, so salted ...same but different t hashed strings. | 16:50 |
| zzzeek | kmalloc: yeah i acually deployed the overclouds w/ identical passwords to solve that :) | 16:50 |
| ayoung | can we sync the salt? | 16:50 |
| kmalloc | We would need to sync the hash. | 16:50 |
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| kmalloc | Which covers the salt. | 16:51 |
| kmalloc | We can't force a salt within keystone | 16:51 |
| zzzeek | i would say, pick a winner, the operator has to know the passwords are going to change if they aren't the same already | 16:52 |
| kmalloc | zzzeek: so, you will see drift of data between the keystone's if we're only galeraing the regions/catalog. | 16:52 |
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| zzzeek | kmalloc: right. initial use case is that you have a brand new keystone DB in both datacenters | 16:52 |
| kmalloc | Right, you should setup a "master cloud" that populates the new cloud | 16:52 |
| kmalloc | And overwrites things as needed. | 16:53 |
| ayoung | so, I think we need a spec for the keystone manage changes we want to support this, right? | 16:53 |
| kmalloc | Yeah, I think we do | 16:53 |
| kmalloc | This isn't a bad concept, or even anything outlandish | 16:53 |
| zzzeek | OK so from my perspective, I'm looking at the full view, which is, you have two tripleo overclouds, you have deployed such that keystones are talking to a separate galera DB that is local to their environment, the "stretch" operation then pulls those galeras into a single cross-datacenter cluster and the keystone data is merged | 16:54 |
| kmalloc | Just need to have it clearly written. | 16:54 |
| lbragstad | we'll need a proposal exception as well | 16:54 |
| ayoung | I did start a tripleo spec, but I think I want a separate one for the Keystone options | 16:54 |
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| zzzeek | also since nobody asked, the big trick here is that I modified the pacemaker resource agent to allow multiple pacemakers to coordinate a single galera cluster | 16:54 |
| kmalloc | zzzeek: that sounds reasonable. Then pivot the keystone to read/write from.galera | 16:54 |
| ayoung | I'll submit a placeholder | 16:54 |
| kmalloc | Once the new db is in place. | 16:55 |
| lbragstad | just a heads up, we're at 5 minutes remaining | 16:55 |
| kmalloc | ayoung: this may need to be a "utility" separate from keystone e-manage | 16:55 |
| zzzeek | what also is nice is that the keystone services never change the DB they talk to, it's a galera cluster that just suddenly has new nodes as part of it | 16:55 |
| kmalloc | ayoung: let's get a spec and go from there. Make sure to add clear use-case descriptions | 16:56 |
| ayoung | kmalloc, if so, we'll get that in the spec | 16:56 |
| kmalloc | So we don't need to refer to the meeting long to remember it all :) | 16:56 |
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| lbragstad | i look forward to reading the spec, it'll be more clear to me on paper i think | 16:58 |
| kmalloc | #action ayoung to write up spec for stretch over cloud with zzzeek | 16:58 |
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| lbragstad | any other comments on this topic? | 16:59 |
| lbragstad | thanks zzzeek | 17:00 |
| lbragstad | #topic open discussion | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 17:00 | |
| lbragstad | last minute - | 17:00 |
| lbragstad | wxy|: has a new version of the unified limit stuff up | 17:00 |
| lbragstad | and it looks really good | 17:00 |
| lbragstad | everyone here should go read | 17:00 |
| lbragstad | :) | 17:00 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/540803/10 | 17:00 |
| gagehugo | lemme leave a tab open for it | 17:00 |
| * hrybacki same | 17:01 | |
| lbragstad | thanks for the time everyone! | 17:01 |
| lbragstad | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 8 17:01:10 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2018/keystone.2018-05-08-16.00.html | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2018/keystone.2018-05-08-16.00.txt | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2018/keystone.2018-05-08-16.00.log.html | 17:01 |
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