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| * cdent tries to wake up | 14:00 | |
| efried | #startmeeting nova_scheduler | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 13 14:00:18 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is efried. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 14:00 |
| takashin | o/ | 14:00 |
| * efried waves smelling salts at cdent | 14:00 | |
| alex_xu | o/ | 14:00 |
| tssurya | o/ | 14:00 |
| tetsuro__ | o/ | 14:00 |
| efried | #link Agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NovaScheduler#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 14:01 |
| efried | jaypipes said he wouldn't make it today. So I gave him all the reviews. | 14:01 |
| edleafe | \o | 14:01 |
| efried | #topic last meeting | 14:02 |
| efried | #link last minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2018/nova_scheduler.2018-08-06-14.00.html | 14:02 |
| efried | Any old business to discuss that's not elsewhere on the agenda? | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "last meeting (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:02 | |
| gibi | o/ | 14:02 |
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| efried | #topic specs and review | 14:03 |
| efried | #link latest pupdate: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-August/132852.html | 14:03 |
| efried | Nobody picked this up last week. I feel the loss... maybe even enough to pick it up next week. We shall see. | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "specs and review (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:03 | |
| efried | #link reshaper series: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/reshape-provider-tree+status:open | 14:05 |
| efried | Stein is open, so let's get this merged ASAP. | 14:05 |
| efried | I believe jaypipes and gibi are on the hook here. Other eyeballs from those who were involved in the planning stages and haven't looked lately (dansmith mriedem bauzas edleafe) would be appreciated. | 14:05 |
| efried | #link Gigantor SQL split and debug logging: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/590041/ | 14:06 |
| efried | This has undergone rudimentary scale/perf testing and has so far been shown not to be significantly slower than the original (yay) | 14:06 |
| efried | Needs scrutiny wrt content and abundance of log messages, please review. | 14:06 |
| jaypipes | hey, I'm here now... | 14:07 |
| cdent | when I left on friday review had identified some edge cases. did those bugs get additional test coverage | 14:07 |
| jaypipes | thought I'd have to miss the meeting, but was able to catch a bit. | 14:07 |
| alex_xu | efried: where can see the perf testing result? | 14:08 |
| efried | cdent: There was a logic bug with multiple forbidden traits: the new algo was using ^ instead of -. A patch to expose the bug was merged and the code has been fixed. | 14:08 |
| efried | #link Test case for multiple forbidden traits https://review.openstack.org/#/c/591070/ | 14:08 |
| efried | alex_xu: There are numbers in some of the patches, stand by... | 14:09 |
| cdent | I wonder if we can programmatically figure out (perhaps just with coverage?) that we're getting the corners | 14:09 |
| jaypipes | alex_xu: short version: not doing nested means performance is much better. | 14:10 |
| efried | alex_xu: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/590041/ see around PS4 | 14:10 |
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| alex_xu | jaypipes: ah...right | 14:10 |
| efried | alex_xu: Oh, jaypipes is talking about something different. Stand by... | 14:10 |
| alex_xu | efried: thanks, checking | 14:10 |
| efried | alex_xu: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/590388/ around PS3 commentary there's an eavesdrop link. | 14:11 |
| efried | alex_xu: There's a topic in open discussion to talk more about scale/perf in general. | 14:11 |
| alex_xu | efried: got it, thanks | 14:12 |
| efried | Those two patches ^ ought to be backported to rocky once we're past the (bizarre and arbitrary) RC/release phase. | 14:12 |
| efried | Planning/Doing support in nova/report client for: | 14:13 |
| efried | #link consumer generation handling (gibi): https://review.openstack.org/#/c/583667/ | 14:13 |
| efried | Still WIP (code almost done, gibi is splitting into multiple patches) | 14:13 |
| gibi | there will be questionable api behaviors there | 14:14 |
| efried | gibi: Nova API or placement API? | 14:14 |
| gibi | when the report client gets consumer conflict it retries but at some point it can run out of retry and needs to fail | 14:14 |
| gibi | efried: nova API | 14:14 |
| gibi | I will write up a list of question in a mail | 14:14 |
| efried | yes, I imagine that will look like the non-retry failure would have looked before, right? | 14:14 |
| efried | that's what I would expect anyway | 14:15 |
| gibi | efried: we don't handle today when a PUT allocations (that used to delete allocation) fails | 14:15 |
| gibi | efried: and many other failure cases | 14:15 |
| efried | "handle" in what sense? You mean today we let the exception bubble up through the resource tracker, where it gets ignored? | 14:16 |
| gibi | efried: there are plenty of TODO in the above patch in the func test detailing them | 14:16 |
| gibi | efried: today we are silent in most cases | 14:16 |
| efried | yup | 14:16 |
| gibi | efried: or go to error in some migration cases like revert_resize | 14:16 |
| gibi | efried: but revert_resize fails then the the end user might want to retry | 14:16 |
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| gibi | anyhow plenty of edges I have to list and ask for oppinion | 14:17 |
| efried | This is great to have you digging and auditing and finding these holes. Pepper the code with TODOs. Call out behavioral changes in commit messages. Do the ML thing. | 14:18 |
| gibi | efried: will do | 14:18 |
| efried | Thanks gibi | 14:18 |
| cdent | yeah, even if we don't fix everything now, todo-ing what you notice is +many | 14:18 |
| efried | nested and shared providers for initial allocations | 14:19 |
| efried | nested and shared providers when modifying migration (and other?) allocations | 14:19 |
| efried | gibi, has your work above expanded to cover any of ^^ this stuff? | 14:19 |
| gibi | efried: unfortunately no | 14:19 |
| efried | okay. | 14:19 |
| gibi | tetsuro started with nested here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/585672 | 14:20 |
| gibi | there are two set of functional test cases above it | 14:20 |
| gibi | one for initial and one for move | 14:20 |
| efried | oh, nice. | 14:20 |
| tetsuro | will rebase it once gibi's one is split. | 14:20 |
| efried | Yeah, I have those on my radar but haven't looked at them recently. But let me add them to the agenda so I don't forget (again) next week... | 14:21 |
| gibi | yeah, I have to move forward as lot of good work depend on the 1.28 patch now | 14:21 |
| efried | #link nested and shared providers for initial & migration (and other?) allocations, series starting at: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/585672 | 14:22 |
| efried | Okay, any other reviews to discuss? Or specs? | 14:23 |
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| efried | Oh, there's a spec I didn't put on the agenda but I'd like to mention. | 14:24 |
| efried | Disclaimer: I haven't read it yet. | 14:24 |
| efried | #link Placement model for PCI devices https://review.openstack.org/#/c/591037/ | 14:24 |
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| cdent | I glanced at that, it's basically a dup of your powervm spec | 14:25 |
| efried | This is a next step on the road to the "generic device management" via placement. | 14:25 |
| efried | okay, that was essentially what kosamara said he was going to do. | 14:25 |
| efried | For reference, cdent is referring to: | 14:26 |
| efried | #link nova-powervm spec for generic device passthrough via placement: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/579359/ | 14:26 |
| efried | Anything else for specs/reviews? | 14:27 |
| efried | #topic bugs | 14:27 |
| efried | #link placement bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=placement&orderby=-id | 14:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:27 | |
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| cdent | I added a new one over the weekend | 14:28 |
| cdent | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1786703 | 14:28 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1786703 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Placement duplicate aggregate uuid handling during concurrent aggregate create insufficiently robust" [Medium,New] | 14:28 |
| cdent | oops | 14:28 |
| cdent | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1786703 | 14:28 |
| cdent | not sure if it an postgres problem, an oslo_db problem or a placement problem | 14:28 |
| efried | neat | 14:29 |
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| cdent | that was my reaction too | 14:29 |
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| efried | I can almost see that happening IRL. | 14:30 |
| cdent | in a kinda "oh lookie, I made it broked!!!" | 14:30 |
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| efried | Okay, any other bug topics? | 14:30 |
| jaypipes | efried: ack, thx for the prod on that GDM-ish spec. | 14:31 |
| jaypipes | will review later. | 14:31 |
| efried | #topic opens | 14:31 |
| efried | Where do we want to be on that extraction thing? | 14:31 |
| efried | cdent, assume this is your microphone | 14:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)" | 14:31 | |
| cdent | it's just a reminder/open question. stein is open but we have a fair chunk of code pending | 14:32 |
| cdent | so we can't go _now_ but do we want to go _soon_? | 14:32 |
| cdent | or are we going to delay even more? | 14:32 |
| efried | cdent: There's an etherpad somewhere that lists the pending steps before we can pull the trigger, right? | 14:33 |
| cdent | there are several etherpads that had that kind of stuff on them, but I'm not sure we made such a list? | 14:33 |
| cdent | or maybe you're remembering something I've forgotten | 14:34 |
| efried | umm | 14:34 |
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| cdent | I'm not very good at remember things on etherpads because they are impossible to find | 14:34 |
| efried | #action cdent to find/make an etherpad (or other doc) with a burndown of remaining work items for extraction | 14:34 |
| efried | ? | 14:34 |
| efried | This will be useful when we get to that agenda item in denver. | 14:35 |
| cdent | so, actually, no. I don't want this to be solely on me, essentially because there are many factors that I don't care about. If it was just on me we would have done it long ago. | 14:35 |
| cdent | but | 14:35 |
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| efried | #undo | 14:35 |
| efried | :) | 14:35 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #action cdent to find/make an etherpad (or other doc) with a burndown of remaining work items for extraction | 14:35 |
| cdent | I can start an etherpad of some kind that reflects the several times I've written all this up in a blog post or on a ptg planning etherpad | 14:36 |
| efried | any single point of reference would be great. | 14:36 |
| cdent | but the root of my question/agenda item is more a query about our combined fortitude and commitment to doing it | 14:37 |
| efried | I for one am very much supportive of extraction, but definitely don't have my head wrapped around what else needs to be done around it. | 14:37 |
| cdent | have you (re)read my several blog posts and emails on the topic? | 14:37 |
| cdent | would assembling those links somewhere be a useful starting point? | 14:38 |
| jaypipes | cdent: didn't you have a blog post on extraction (a followup post to your original one)? | 14:38 |
| efried | I read them when they come out (assuming I'm linked on them) but don't go back and reread them later unless prompted. | 14:38 |
| cdent | jaypipes: yes | 14:38 |
| cdent | #link placement extraction 2: https://anticdent.org/placement-extraction-2.html | 14:38 |
| jaypipes | danke | 14:39 |
| cdent | several of the things listed there are done | 14:39 |
| efried | One one hand, yes, such a collection of links would be useful; but on the other, I don't want to daunted by a massive volume of reading if much of it is obsolete (already completed). | 14:39 |
| cdent | but again: the technical barriers are not my major concern at this point | 14:39 |
| cdent | in fact not even really my minor concern | 14:39 |
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| jaypipes | cdent: the intestinal fortitude of the nova core team to allow the complete segregation of the placement service from nova itself is your primary question/concern. | 14:40 |
| cdent | Yes, jaypipes. At some point we're going to fork, and I'd like that to be a comfortable thing to do, if at all possible. | 14:40 |
| jaypipes | ack | 14:41 |
| efried | Well, knowing which work items are mandatory and which are optional; knowing if any need to be done in a particular order; maybe even having some sense of how big each item is; getting names next to some of them... | 14:41 |
| efried | All of that would be useful to break down barriers | 14:41 |
| jaypipes | cdent: I think one thing that might make that process easier is having a placementclient library that can be easily imported into nova and replace much of the code currently in scheduler/client/report.py | 14:42 |
| cdent | efried: are you asking me to do something, or are you just listing things that may need to be done? | 14:42 |
| jaypipes | cdent: I think efried is pining for the list, that's all :) | 14:42 |
| cdent | jaypipes: I don't see what the report client has to do with placement the api service being in its own repo? | 14:42 |
| efried | cdent: I'm describing a thing (burndown etherpad or similar) that I think would be useful. I think you're the best person to compose it, at least initially, at least in skeletal form. | 14:43 |
| cdent | k | 14:43 |
| jaypipes | cdent: because having a separate client library indicates the maturity of the API service for which the client library provides an interface. | 14:43 |
| efried | I agree this has nothing to do with a client library, which is a topic all of its own, and a contentious one. The mordred faction would likely argue that we shouldn't have a placementclient lib at all, ever. | 14:44 |
| mordred | aroo? | 14:44 |
| mordred | yup | 14:44 |
| mordred | I would strongly argue that | 14:44 |
| efried | The report client does stuff that's nova-specific. The vast majority of it wouldn't be appropriate for a generic lib. | 14:44 |
| cdent | the api service is as mature (or at least temporarily static) as we declare it to be. I agree that if we are going to do this move we should freeze the placement api | 14:44 |
| jaypipes | cdent: put another way: the fact that the reportclient is its own bastardized client library to placement is an indicator to nova core contributors that the placement API service is not yet fully distinguishable from nova itself. | 14:44 |
| efried | oh, I disagree with this ^ | 14:45 |
| jaypipes | mordred: oh, fello. | 14:45 |
| jaypipes | hello... | 14:45 |
| mordred | or fello | 14:45 |
| cdent | jaypipes: I agree with efried disagreeing | 14:45 |
| cdent | :) | 14:45 |
| mordred | but yeah - we should be deleting python-*client libraries, not making new ones | 14:45 |
| jaypipes | mordred: are openstacksdk pieces separately importable into a service? | 14:46 |
| mordred | yes | 14:46 |
| jaypipes | without bringing in the entire collection of other clients? | 14:46 |
| mordred | sdk does not touch other clients | 14:47 |
| mordred | as should nothing | 14:47 |
| mordred | since they make everything harder | 14:47 |
| cdent | I suspect that "placementclient" lib ought to be more to do with things like ProviderTree than with api calls. But I still think that "client stuff" is orthogonal from maturity and repo separation | 14:47 |
| jaypipes | ok, so since there is a placement openstacksdk client plugin, we should be able to import that without having to import any other client plugin? is that correct? | 14:47 |
| jaypipes | mordred: ^ | 14:48 |
| mordred | well, there is no such thing as openstacksdk plugins - but placement is more than welcome to put as much placement support in sdk as desired, and we can make some people core on that area if needed | 14:48 |
| efried | is that a wrapper around a ksa adapter to the placement API? | 14:48 |
| mordred | and I'd be more than happy to work with y'all on figuring out the right/easiest way to make the progress you need to make | 14:49 |
| jaypipes | mordred: right now, we have a straight requests+ksa raw HTTP client embedded in the scheduler/client/report.py module. what I'm looking for is the ability to do: from openstacksdk import placement as place_client (or something like that) | 14:49 |
| mordred | yup. that would basically just work today | 14:49 |
| efried | jaypipes: And then place_client.what()? | 14:49 |
| jaypipes | efried: place_client.get_providers(), blah blah... | 14:50 |
| efried | .get() .put() .post() .delete() ? | 14:50 |
| mordred | conn = openstack.connect() ; conn.placement.get('/some/placement/path') | 14:50 |
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| mordred | no patches needed | 14:50 |
| jaypipes | mordred: cool. maybe I can sit down with you in Denver and learn more about that. | 14:50 |
| efried | bingo, there's the disconnect (so to speak). jaypipes is asking for .get_providers() etc. - basically method wrappers around particular URIs. | 14:50 |
| mordred | BUT - if you want to add more smarter things, we can add those methods to the proxy/adapter object that gets attached to conn as placement | 14:50 |
| mordred | jaypipes: would LOVE to do that | 14:50 |
| mordred | efried: yup - we can add one of those really easily | 14:51 |
| efried | Okay. | 14:51 |
| efried | That's neat. | 14:51 |
| efried | But | 14:51 |
| mordred | and then I've been meaning to circle back around with efried about getting nova to use sdk instead of python-*client or raw ksa anyway | 14:51 |
| efried | Still orthogonal to the where the placement API itself sprouts from. | 14:51 |
| mordred | so - yay denver! | 14:51 |
| efried | mordred: Would you be able to hang out in the nova room for that topic if we had it on the agenda/ | 14:51 |
| efried | ? | 14:51 |
| mordred | efried: absolutely | 14:52 |
| cdent | we running out of time | 14:52 |
| * efried adds to etherpad | 14:52 | |
| efried | Yeah, so back to placement API extraction itself. cdent, do you "volunteer" to take an action to create a master burndown list of action items toward extraction? | 14:53 |
| jaypipes | efried: to repeat... cdent's concern is not actually with that list of things. | 14:53 |
| jaypipes | efried: his concern is a metaphysical one. | 14:53 |
| jaypipes | efried: and no amount of list-making will answer those concerns. | 14:54 |
| efried | #link Stein PTG etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-ptg-stein | 14:54 |
| cdent | volunteer is a bit strong, but yes I will create that list, and yes, jay is right that I'm concerned about metaphysics, but we presumably need the list anyway | 14:54 |
| efried | mordred: ^ very bottom | 14:54 |
| efried | cdent: Right, because we don't need to waste time with the first wave of objections ("well, what about X, what about Y, ...") | 14:54 |
| efried | because we already have X and Y listed with a plan to address. | 14:55 |
| efried | okay, moving on, 5 minutes left. | 14:55 |
| efried | Placement scale/perf testing in the gate (cdent) | 14:55 |
| efried | #link github repo to set up a bunch of providers: https://github.com/cdent/placeload | 14:55 |
| efried | #link A start on adding some kind of perf reporting to the gate: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/591367/ | 14:55 |
| efried | This is to follow on with earlier mentions of cdent having experimented with some scale testing | 14:56 |
| jaypipes | and I was trying (terribly, apparently) to explain that one source of tension that nova core contributors have w.r.t. a placement extraction is the continued belief that nova == placement in so much as there is as yet no real consumer of placement outside of nova. it's a chicken and egg problem in a lot of ways, but the mess of the reportclient's calling into the placement service (and the very nova-centrism of that reportclient) makes | 14:56 |
| jaypipes | it *seem* like nova == placement for all intents and purposes. | 14:56 |
| efried | He identified some serious bottlenecks, which have since been fixed. | 14:56 |
| cdent | neutron and blazar have significant bits of code in-progress | 14:56 |
| efried | But it would be neat if this kind of testing could be more regular | 14:56 |
| cdent | so yeah, perf scale stuff | 14:56 |
| cdent | I've started: | 14:56 |
| cdent | #link perf info in the gate: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/591367/ | 14:56 |
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| cdent | doesn't work yet | 14:56 |
| cdent | but will allow the nova-next job to report a simple timing info each run (adding only seconds to the job run time) | 14:57 |
| jaypipes | nice, good work cdent. | 14:57 |
| cdent | I put it on nova-next because that one uses the optional placement db | 14:57 |
| efried | jaypipes: Even if nova == placement for all intents and purposes, that's *no* reason to avoid extracting it. We have a demonstrated imbalance of codebase to reviewers/developers. Extracting pieces into their own components where feasible is a good way to combat that. And placement is a significant piece with some pretty clear borders that's ripe for such a move. | 14:59 |
| cdent | with time it could become a bit more exciting, but at the moment I'm trying to make it as dumb as possible | 14:59 |
| efried | As I mentioned earlier, that's way better than what we had before, which is nothing. | 15:00 |
| jaypipes | efried: again, I'm trying to tell you what the perceptions are. | 15:00 |
| efried | Okay, we're out of time. | 15:00 |
| efried | jaypipes: Would love to continue the discussion in -placement | 15:00 |
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| efried | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 13 15:00:27 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2018/nova_scheduler.2018-08-13-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2018/nova_scheduler.2018-08-13-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2018/nova_scheduler.2018-08-13-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
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