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| tbarron | #startmeeting manila | 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 1 15:01:08 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tbarron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:01 |
| bswartz | .o/ | 15:01 |
| ganso | hello | 15:01 |
| amito | hello | 15:01 |
| markstur | hi | 15:01 |
| zaneb | o/ | 15:01 |
| tbarron | let's wait another minute | 15:02 |
| tbarron | ping xyang | 15:02 |
| dustins | \o | 15:02 |
| xyang | hi | 15:02 |
| tbarron | ping toabctl | 15:02 |
| gouthamr | o/ | 15:03 |
| tbarron | Hi all! | 15:03 |
| tbarron | #topic announcements | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:03 | |
| tbarron | Spec deadline is a week from today. | 15:04 |
| tbarron | We have specs on the agenda, so 'nuff said for now. | 15:04 |
| tbarron | Summit is the following week. | 15:04 |
| tbarron | I will make an etherpad for our forum session and send it to the dev list. | 15:05 |
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| tbarron | Who here will be at summit? | 15:05 |
| * tbarron will, vkmc will | 15:05 | |
| amito | most likely won't be there... but I'll know soon. | 15:05 |
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| tbarron | ok, ping me if you'll be attending this one please. | 15:06 |
| amito | np | 15:06 |
| vkmc | o/ | 15:06 |
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| tbarron | I don't have any other announcements, anyone else? | 15:06 |
| xyang | I won't be there. I'll be in KubeCon Shanghai in that same week | 15:06 |
| tbarron | xyang: cool, but remember platforms need infra :) | 15:06 |
| ganso | erlon, tpsilva and I will | 15:07 |
| xyang | :) | 15:07 |
| tbarron | ganso: cool, the boys from brazil :) | 15:07 |
| tbarron | #topic technical vision | 15:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "technical vision (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:07 | |
| tbarron | We have zaneb as a special guest today. | 15:07 |
| tbarron | I've been following the proposed tech vision in review | 15:08 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/592205/ | 15:08 |
| tbarron | I personally like the vision and | 15:08 |
| tbarron | think manila fits unprobematically with it. | 15:08 |
| tbarron | But we should all take a look. | 15:08 |
| tbarron | zaneb: you're up :) | 15:09 |
| zaneb | hi everyone :) | 15:09 |
| amito | hi zaneb | 15:09 |
| zaneb | I'm here to listen more than to talk :) | 15:09 |
| zaneb | I'd like to hear what y'all think | 15:09 |
| zaneb | because I'm not an expert on Manila by any means | 15:10 |
| tbarron | me too, have folks had a chance to read over the review? | 15:10 |
| zaneb | so do you think this direction is right? is there anything important that we've missed. is there anything there that shouldn't be? | 15:11 |
| tbarron | IMO manila provides part of basic data center mgmt via self-service shares | 15:11 |
| tbarron | It virtualizes the resources underneath | 15:11 |
| tbarron | It isolates tenants from one another | 15:12 |
| tbarron | It provides an API so that programs can use it, not just humans | 15:12 |
| tbarron | It is not particularly nova-centered since it offers | 15:12 |
| dustins | I haven't had the chance to look at it (and honestly didn't know there was an ongoing effort to define a vision) | 15:12 |
| tbarron | up storage over a network rather than via a hypervisor | 15:13 |
| zaneb | one question I had actually, is does Manila also make it easier to scale granularly (like e.g. Swift does) or do you hit limits in terms of having to pre-allocate the size of the file system (like e.g. Cinder)? | 15:13 |
| tbarron | dustins: /me recommends following the dev list | 15:13 |
| zaneb | I think it's still the latter, but I was unsure of how it works in practice | 15:14 |
| * gouthamr isn't aware of cinder's issue needing pre-allocating size of the file-system | 15:14 | |
| erlon | hey | 15:14 |
| tbarron | zaneb: yeah, not sure about the cinder limitation either but | 15:15 |
| gouthamr | zaneb: inherently shared-file-systems are "elastic" - so manila supports expanding and shrinking | 15:15 |
| tbarron | we are elastic | 15:15 |
| zaneb | gouthamr: I mean, the size of a volume in Cinder is fixed. In Swift if you need to store another object, you just do it. In Cinder if the FS is full, you have much more work to do. Not that that's bad, but they're different things | 15:15 |
| tbarron | cloud admins need to track usage and increasee backing store | 15:15 |
| gouthamr | or users | 15:15 |
| tbarron | zaneb: a "share" has a fixed size (with some back ends that's just a back end quota, nothing more) | 15:16 |
| tbarron | zaneb: but it can be "extended" | 15:16 |
| ganso | zaneb: there is no way to create a share with "undefined", "unlimited" or "indetermined" size, the user has to choose a size and then can increase or decrease it later | 15:16 |
| zaneb | ok, so it's sorta in-between | 15:16 |
| tbarron | we've considered "infinite" or "auto-sizing" shares but they've not been implemented yete | 15:17 |
| tbarron | yet | 15:17 |
| zaneb | you have to define a size, unlike Swift, but it's easy to change, unlike Cinder | 15:17 |
| gouthamr | yep, cinder doesn't let you shrink a volume | 15:17 |
| bswartz | On some backends it's easy to change... | 15:17 |
| gouthamr | s/cinder/block devices | 15:17 |
| amito | also, increasing or decreasing its size depends on backend capabilities | 15:18 |
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| * zaneb is learning a lot today :) | 15:18 | |
| bswartz | #TIL | 15:18 |
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| tbarron | there's nothing stopping a program from selecting a flexible back end (via a share type) for shares, tracking usage, and extendiing as appropriate | 15:19 |
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| zaneb | so it may be the case that Manila is also contributing to several of the other design goals as well, not just the basic data center infrastructure | 15:19 |
| tbarron | but the abstraction sits over some back ends that may not allow this | 15:20 |
| gouthamr | +1 - the point about "arbitrary grouping" makes sense on multiple levels for us | 15:20 |
| tbarron | zaneb: +2 | 15:20 |
| gouthamr | for instance ^ :) | 15:20 |
| tbarron | I meant +1 :) | 15:20 |
| * tbarron wasn't exercising any special powers | 15:20 | |
| gouthamr | 'ts a good read, will review today and provide feedback | 15:22 |
| tbarron | zaneb: fwiw I agree with rosmaita that quotas are useful even with "central-planning" cloud economics where individual consumers aren't evaluating opportunity costs :) | 15:22 |
| tbarron | but that's a nit | 15:22 |
| tbarron | Anyone have any deep concerns about the proposed tech vision or manila's fit ? | 15:23 |
| tbarron | zaneb: I'm not hearing any worries so I'll add my +1 as PTL as you requested. | 15:24 |
| zaneb | tbarron: thanks! new patch set with responses to comments coming today probably | 15:24 |
| tbarron | If anyone comes up with issues take them to the review or catch zaneb on #openstack-tc | 15:25 |
| zaneb | ++ | 15:25 |
| tbarron | zaneb: thanks for joining us today | 15:25 |
| zaneb | thanks for your time everyone, looking forward to your comments :) | 15:25 |
| tbarron | #topic spec reviews | 15:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "spec reviews (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:25 | |
| tbarron | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/SteinCycle#Other_Work | 15:26 |
| tbarron | ^^ That will take you to the right spot even though the topic isn't just right | 15:26 |
| tbarron | As mentioned earlier, spec deadline is a week from today. | 15:27 |
| tbarron | We have three outstanding spec reviews at the moment. | 15:27 |
| tbarron | And *no* review comments :( | 15:27 |
| tbarron | I'm going to block off some time for these today and tomorrow but | 15:28 |
| tbarron | can we get more reviewers to sign up for these and give initial feedback before the weekend? | 15:28 |
| tbarron | ganso: You may want to do some lobbying/arm-twisting since as | 15:29 |
| tbarron | things stand now I'd say these are at risk for not making this cycle simply because we | 15:29 |
| tbarron | are limited on review bandwidth. | 15:29 |
| ganso | sorry I don't understand the expression "lobbying/arm-twisting" | 15:29 |
| tbarron | ganso: if you have to triage, life-boat style, what is your priority? | 15:30 |
| bswartz | ganso: he's saying you need to go ask people for reviews | 15:30 |
| tbarron | ganso: sorry for the colloquialism, I mean ^^ | 15:30 |
| bswartz | There is no magical review fairy | 15:30 |
| tbarron | ganso: in an ideal world there would be sufficient reviewer bandwidth and interest in these features that you wouldn't need to do that, but ... | 15:31 |
| ganso | my priority would be 1) manage/unmanage DHSS=True, 2) Replication DHSS=True and 3) Create share from snapshot in other backends | 15:31 |
| tbarron | ganso: so find other people with DHSS=True back ends who care about these features and get them to review and agree on the approach | 15:31 |
| amito | I can try and review specs this weekend. | 15:32 |
| tbarron | amito: thanks! | 15:32 |
| tbarron | Anything else on this topic today? | 15:33 |
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| tbarron | #topic planning our work | 15:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "planning our work (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:34 | |
| tbarron | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/SteinCycle | 15:34 |
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| tbarron | gouthamr: how is it going with running the lvm job in bionic instead of centos? | 15:35 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: pretty good so far, late-breakthrough with the quagga issue i was seeing | 15:35 |
| tbarron | As a reminder, this is a step in the python3 goal since centos currently doesn't support python3 | 15:35 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: i want to test those changes on centos and invoke the netapp-ci which is testing this on xenial | 15:35 |
| gouthamr | after which we should be good | 15:36 |
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| tbarron | gouthamr: sounds like good progress | 15:36 |
| gouthamr | I have work to do on the base patch wrt the Grenade job - that's on my plate today - it'd be nice to get these in, and be the first project to stop testing Stein on Xenial :D | 15:36 |
| tbarron | vkmc: gouthamr: what will be the next step on python3 goal after converting the lvm job? | 15:37 |
| vkmc | tbarron, porting tempest tests | 15:37 |
| tbarron | vkmc: will we port to zuulv3 as part of that? | 15:38 |
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| gouthamr | we also need to replicate these job changes on manila-tempest-plugin (and at some point look at rebuilding the service images) | 15:39 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: ack | 15:39 |
| gouthamr | imho zuulv3 can be a slower transition, unless infra wants us to do it right away | 15:39 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: fine by me | 15:40 |
| gouthamr | i haven't heard that they do, we have so much other work to get to :) | 15:40 |
| tbarron | vkmc: gouthamr: you've been keeping | 15:40 |
| vkmc | tbarron, yes, but migrating to zuulv3 requires some planning since this will affect third party ci's | 15:41 |
| tbarron | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/SteinCycle#Python3 | 15:41 |
| vkmc | we need to make it slowly | 15:41 |
| tbarron | pretty up to date, so please keep doing so :) | 15:41 |
| vkmc | we discussed about this briefly during the dublin ptg, we didn't talk about this during the denver ptg | 15:41 |
| tbarron | and ack on de-coupling this from zuulv3 | 15:41 |
| vkmc | but certainly is the next step | 15:41 |
| vkmc | yeah, we need to decouple py3 migration to zuulv3 migration | 15:42 |
| tbarron | I know everybody has been busy with downstream work and concerns lately but I'll mention | 15:42 |
| tbarron | on the Manila CSI subject that we hope to have some | 15:43 |
| tbarron | good discussions with CERN and OpenStack k8s sig on this subject | 15:43 |
| tbarron | at the Summit | 15:43 |
| bswartz | \o/ | 15:44 |
| tbarron | Meanwhile people are using the dynamic external storage provider for manila successfully but | 15:44 |
| tbarron | some of them have raised an issue when using CephFS back end where | 15:44 |
| tbarron | k8s needs the shares to be mode 775 instead of 755 | 15:45 |
| tbarron | because the workload running in the conatiner, which sees the share via biind mout from the k8s host | 15:45 |
| tbarron | runs with a high number (non-root) uid but is in root group | 15:45 |
| bswartz | Oh yes I remember this discussion | 15:46 |
| tbarron | I have an open PR in the ceph_volume_client (in ceph) for this and a dependent review in manila | 15:46 |
| bswartz | We need a way for manila to set the mode/owner of the root of the share | 15:46 |
| tbarron | I mention this in case any other back ends have similar issues. | 15:46 |
| tbarron | bswartz: the manila patch right now is short-term and back end specific but | 15:47 |
| bswartz | It's currently undefined which means it's completely up to the driver | 15:47 |
| bswartz | And that's terrible | 15:47 |
| tbarron | we can look at generalizations too | 15:47 |
| bswartz | Some drivers just set it to 777 to avoid any problems | 15:47 |
| tbarron | I think we have to get a sense of back end capabilities and defaults in this area before we can do a general solution scoped over all back ends | 15:48 |
| tbarron | So I may send an email on the dev list to inquire. | 15:48 |
| tbarron | ok, moving along | 15:49 |
| bswartz | Well I think it's a solvable problem | 15:49 |
| bswartz | There's no reason a backend couldn't set the mode/owner -- it's just not in the manila API | 15:49 |
| tbarron | Anyone have updates on any of the other planned work? | 15:49 |
| bswartz | The hard part would be amending the Manila API | 15:49 |
| tbarron | bswartz: agree, that's why we're doing back end specific for cephfs and cephfs/nfs as the first step | 15:50 |
| tbarron | other back ends may want to do something similar | 15:50 |
| tbarron | #topic Bugs | 15:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:50 | |
| tbarron | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/SteinCycle#Bug_Triage | 15:51 |
| tbarron | dustins: got anyting for us today? | 15:51 |
| dustins | tbarron: I do not, unfortunately/fortunately | 15:51 |
| tbarron | dustins: yeah I know you've been pretty busy with downstream concerns ... | 15:52 |
| dustins | To put it lightly :P | 15:52 |
| ganso | there is a new bug though, and I have some comments from another bug | 15:52 |
| dustins | ganso: Do tell! | 15:52 |
| tbarron | ganso: link? | 15:52 |
| ganso | looking for it just a sec | 15:52 |
| ganso | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/manila/+bug/1799742 | 15:53 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1799742 in Manila "Wrong segmentation ID sent to drivers when using multi-segments" [Medium,New] | 15:53 |
| tbarron | some Rodrigo guy raised this one :) | 15:53 |
| ganso | I found this while testing the network plugins with multiple neutron segments | 15:53 |
| ganso | neutron would allow each subnet to have different VLANs | 15:54 |
| ganso | but the manila plugin code just iterates over the list of segments from the network (not the subnet), the picks the last one, for any subnet | 15:54 |
| ganso | s/the picks/then picks | 15:54 |
| ganso | I checked if it an easy fix | 15:55 |
| tbarron | ganso: so is the fix straightforward? i.e. do we have the info to know where in the loop to stop instead of just picking the last? | 15:55 |
| ganso | according to my approach, it is not | 15:55 |
| ganso | because the neutron segments API is not supported by our abstraction of neutron client, nor neutron client v2.0 itself | 15:55 |
| ganso | it requires openstacksdk | 15:56 |
| ganso | I glanced at it, and it seems the authentication system is slightly different (uses that yaml file which we wouldn't want to use) | 15:56 |
| gouthamr | ganso: https://github.com/openstack/manila/blob/2b40e5618f2c1039bbbbd1a3e31b72e104b5436b/manila/network/neutron/neutron_network_plugin.py#L258 | 15:56 |
| ganso | gouthamr: L269 is the bug | 15:57 |
| gouthamr | the note suggests "the lowest segment" - it's unclear what that is, but mkoderer may have known what was going on | 15:57 |
| tbarron | well using the SDK rather than clients is arguably the right direction anyways ... | 15:57 |
| ganso | gouthamr: yea, I don't know what it is supposed to mean | 15:57 |
| gouthamr | i know what you're referring to, i'm suggesting that you could have a misconfiguration? | 15:57 |
| ganso | gouthamr: I am not sure, it is a good idea to be triaged by someone who understands a lot more about neutron multi-segments than I do | 15:58 |
| ganso | tbarron: may I proceed to the next bug? | 15:58 |
| gouthamr | yes, reading through the code it looks like only one of the segments can have their "'provider:physical_network'" attr set to the physical network | 15:58 |
| tbarron | ganso: maybe "reach out" to mkoderer? | 15:58 |
| tbarron | ganso: sure, ++ | 15:59 |
| tbarron | bug++ | 15:59 |
| ganso | tbarron: yea we can try that | 15:59 |
| ganso | bug #2 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/manila/+bug/1786059 | 15:59 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1786059 in Manila "Cannot Connect to Share Server when Creating Share with Generic Driver (DHSS=True)" [Undecided,Invalid] | 15:59 |
| tbarron | you have 45 secs | 15:59 |
| ganso | for some reason, a lot of people are hitting that bug | 15:59 |
| ganso | I have discussed it already | 15:59 |
| ganso | we cannot reproduce it in the gate | 15:59 |
| tbarron | right | 15:59 |
| ganso | but we don't know why so many people are hitting that | 15:59 |
| ganso | I'm receiving emails asking for help | 15:59 |
| bswartz | There is an environmental issue | 16:00 |
| gouthamr | i kinda have an inkling why | 16:00 |
| ganso | and I don't know how to help | 16:00 |
| gouthamr | :) | 16:00 |
| bswartz | But I was never able to track down the root case | 16:00 |
| tbarron | let's go to #openstack-manila, I think a lot of us are getting these emailis | 16:00 |
| bswartz | cause even | 16:00 |
| ganso | I spent alot of time this and last week helping people debug, and I am out of ideas | 16:00 |
| tbarron | Thanks everyone! | 16:00 |
| tbarron | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 1 16:00:40 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2018/manila.2018-11-01-15.01.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2018/manila.2018-11-01-15.01.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2018/manila.2018-11-01-15.01.log.html | 16:00 |
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