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| tbarron | #startmeeting manila | 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Nov 29 15:01:38 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tbarron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'manila' | 15:01 |
| tbarron | ping gouthamr | 15:01 |
| xyang | hi | 15:01 |
| tbarron | ping zhongjun | 15:02 |
| ganso | hello | 15:02 |
| vkmc | O/ | 15:02 |
| tbarron | ping markstur | 15:02 |
| tbarron | ping bswartz | 15:02 |
| tbarron | but bswartz is travelling today | 15:02 |
| tbarron | ping erlon | 15:02 |
| tbarron | ping tpsilva | 15:02 |
| tbarron | ping amito | 15:02 |
| tbarron | but amito is in another meeting | 15:02 |
| tbarron | that's the ping list minus the folks I already sss here | 15:03 |
| tbarron | Hi xyang ganso vkmc | 15:03 |
| tbarron | let's wait a bit | 15:03 |
| *** vnogin has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 15:03 | |
| xyang | tbarron: I have joined | 15:03 |
| xyang | can you see my msg? | 15:03 |
| tbarron | the end of daylight savings time in our part of the world may be throwing people off a bit. | 15:03 |
| tbarron | xyang: yes! greetings! | 15:04 |
| xyang | Hi! | 15:04 |
| xyang | I got logged out automatically a lot these days. Just want to make sure:) | 15:04 |
| gouthamr | o/ | 15:05 |
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| tbarron | OK, let's get started | 15:06 |
| tbarron | #topic Announcements | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:06 | |
| tbarron | Ben is traveling today but has voted on the specs so we can still cover that today, a little later | 15:07 |
| tbarron | Today is out (extended) spec deadline. | 15:07 |
| tbarron | Anyone have any other announcments? | 15:07 |
| tbarron | Oh yeah, Dustin has moved on so if you are interested in the bug czar role let me know :) | 15:08 |
| tbarron | #topic Berlin Summit Summary | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Berlin Summit Summary (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:08 | |
| tbarron | vkmc: amito ganso and I were at the Berlin Summit | 15:08 |
| tbarron | Overall the shift from traditional OpenStack to OpenInfrastructure is well underway. | 15:09 |
| tbarron | The foundation is renaming everythihng to Open Infrastructure | 15:10 |
| tbarron | Lot's of emphasis on bare metal, container orchestrator integration, the distributed edge. | 15:10 |
| tbarron | Not nova VM centric anymore. | 15:10 |
| tbarron | *Our* message is that manila has always been loosely coupled with nova and other OpenStack components. | 15:11 |
| tbarron | We serve up storage over the network rather than via a hypervisor. | 15:11 |
| tbarron | This may have been a weakness in traditional OpenStack but | 15:11 |
| tbarron | it is a strength in the new Open Infra world order :) | 15:12 |
| tbarron | Also: you can now have open infra end to end with production quality deployment of purely software defined manila back ends, even with NFS instead of just CephFS native | 15:13 |
| tbarron | our *work* is focused on making manila easier to consume | 15:13 |
| tbarron | * openstack client and sdk support | 15:13 |
| tbarron | * CSI support for container orchestrators | 15:13 |
| tbarron | * Horizon catch-up with our newer API features | 15:14 |
| tbarron | * AZ and capabilty discovery, scheduler use of these | 15:14 |
| tbarron | There were seven summit sessions explicitly tagged with "manila" | 15:14 |
| tbarron | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/berlin-2018/summit-schedule/global-search?t=manila | 15:15 |
| tbarron | And on Monday we had Ceph day, with a manila preso: | 15:15 |
| tbarron | https://ceph.com/cephdays/ceph-day-berlin/ | 15:15 |
| tbarron | #link https://www.slideshare.net/Inktank_Ceph/ceph-day-berlin-practical-cephfs-and-nfs-using-openstack-manila | 15:16 |
| tbarron | project update slies are posted | 15:16 |
| tbarron | #link https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1txafXiYBA4pusgSVOmAAqOOr5BsigAqEk2NvqG9_tKw/edit#slide=id.g45dbfa8aec_0_116 | 15:16 |
| tbarron | vkmc ran a great onboarding session | 15:16 |
| tbarron | #link https://www.slideshare.net/TomBarron/manila-project-onboarding-openstackberlinsummit2018-124161981 | 15:17 |
| tbarron | CERN gave a great preso on how they are using manila with container orchestrators | 15:17 |
| tbarron | #link https://www.openstack.org/assets/presentation-media/presentation4.pdf | 15:18 |
| ganso | tbarron: You need permission. Your request for access has been sent. | 15:18 |
| ganso | tbarron: ^ for the project update slides | 15:18 |
| tbarron | ganso: ok, i'll open it up and grant perm right after | 15:18 |
| ganso | tbarron: thanks | 15:18 |
| tbarron | ganso: thanks | 15:18 |
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| tbarron | At the sig-k8s session there was a topic on manila CSI driver and | 15:19 |
| tbarron | Robert Vasek from CERN and some of us presented a plan for | 15:19 |
| tbarron | manila CSI going forwards | 15:19 |
| tbarron | It's summarized in a followup email to openstack-discuss | 15:20 |
| tbarron | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2018-November/136557.html | 15:20 |
| tbarron | Overall, I think it was a successful summit and manila is well positioned going forwards. | 15:21 |
| tbarron | Anyone else have comments? Thoughts? auestios? w.r.t. summit? | 15:21 |
| tbarron | oh yeah, next summit combined with design sessions (what was PTG) in Denver. | 15:21 |
| tbarron | Then after that somewhere in mainland china. | 15:21 |
| tbarron | :) | 15:22 |
| gouthamr | No, this was a great summary for those of us who couldn't attend. Thanks Tom! | 15:22 |
| tbarron | #topic Specs | 15:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs (Meeting topic: manila)" | 15:22 | |
| tbarron | This is the deadline. We've had quite a bit of review activity in the last couple of weeks. | 15:23 |
| tbarron | And I think we know what we want to merge. | 15:23 |
| tbarron | Let's go through the specs. | 15:23 |
| tbarron | * Manage/Unmanage Share Servers | 15:24 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/607342 | 15:24 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: you have a -1 but no fundamental objectiion, right? | 15:24 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: yeah, no.. we can resolve this issue in code review | 15:25 |
| tbarron | OK | 15:26 |
| gouthamr | i know ganso's written some code with his driver that works with his existing proposal - but still doesn't make sense with the known workflow of share servers in my head | 15:26 |
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| tbarron | ganso: please ping me after you and gouthamr get rid of his -1 and he puts his +2 on there :) | 15:26 |
| tbarron | he can point to issues that need to be resolved in code review | 15:26 |
| ganso | gouthamr: perhaps we should schedule another meeting to go over this again | 15:26 |
| tbarron | Ben has already +2-ed this one a couple times. | 15:27 |
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| tbarron | ganso: gouthamr - resolve today and push remaining stuf to code review! | 15:27 |
| tbarron | Anyone else have any objections to merging this spec? | 15:27 |
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| tbarron | ok, | 15:28 |
| tbarron | * share servers span subnets * | 15:28 |
| tbarron | We were ready to move ahead on phase one of this but needed a design for phase two | 15:29 |
| ganso | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/619925 | 15:29 |
| ganso | design of phase two ^ | 15:29 |
| tbarron | phase two will add support for multi-address servers | 15:29 |
| gouthamr | +2 - haven't looked at multiple subnets per AZ too deeply | 15:29 |
| gouthamr | but we don't need that to merge right away, correct? | 15:29 |
| tbarron | Ben & ganso & I thhink that 619925 is good enough to defer to Train and work on details then | 15:30 |
| gouthamr | multi-address = multiple subnets | 15:30 |
| tbarron | that is, we're convinced that we won't paint ourselves into a corner doing phase 1 and approving the specs for phase 1 | 15:30 |
| tbarron | namely | 15:30 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391805/ | 15:30 |
| tbarron | and | 15:31 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/615947/ | 15:31 |
| tbarron | So -- anyone object to approving these two specs and taking up 619925 in Train? | 15:31 |
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| tbarron | OK, I hear no objection so we'll merge 391805 and 615947 -- note that 391805 was already approved in Newton :) | 15:33 |
| tbarron | next | 15:33 |
| gouthamr | nope | 15:33 |
| tbarron | * Create share from snapshots in another pool or back end | 15:33 |
| tbarron | We had lots of meetings on this one. | 15:33 |
| tbarron | ganso has done a great job of framing a real problem and of | 15:34 |
| tbarron | bringing several worthwhile ideas to the fore about how | 15:34 |
| tbarron | we might address the problem. | 15:34 |
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| tbarron | But at this point we don't have any consensus on the right solution. | 15:34 |
| tbarron | I don't even have a clear consenus between tbarron1 and tbarron2 on this! | 15:35 |
| tbarron | similarl sentiments expressed by bswartz. | 15:35 |
| tbarron | So we decided that this one will not merge today. | 15:35 |
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| tbarron | If ganso comes up with a compelling solution he can bring it to everyone's attention as soon as he has it -- no need to wait till Train to talk about it. | 15:36 |
| tbarron | Indeed, there's no reason to stop thinking/working on stuff just because we don't make a cycle deadline! | 15:37 |
| tbarron | Anything else on this one today? | 15:37 |
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| tbarron | ganso: you are going to have lots of work with the other approved specs anyways :) | 15:38 |
| tbarron | ok next | 15:38 |
| ganso | tbarron: yup =) | 15:38 |
| tbarron | * Storage AZ improvements | 15:38 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/616123/ | 15:38 |
| tbarron | ganso you have a -1 on this | 15:39 |
| bswartz | Did I forget to +2 anything that's ready? | 15:39 |
| ganso | tbarron: yes | 15:39 |
| tbarron | but iiuc it's not a fundamental objection | 15:39 |
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| ganso | bswartz: manage/unmanage (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/607342), but we acknowledge your past +2 | 15:40 |
| tbarron | ganso: gouthamr - can you come to enough agreement on the overall spec that we can approve it today and | 15:40 |
| ganso | tbarron: unfortunately I couldn't be at the meeting where you discussed this, and I still don't understand why this has changed | 15:40 |
| tbarron | write in the review comments any issue that needs to be pushed to the code reviews? | 15:40 |
| tbarron | bswartz: we have some -1s to get out of the way then you and I have to re-apply our +2s :) | 15:41 |
| tbarron | bswartz: nice surprise that you are here! | 15:41 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: no this one is a design issue that ganso's bringing up | 15:41 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: ganso: ok, let's talk this through then. | 15:41 |
| tbarron | ganso: are you saying we should show users export locations that are not active and that therefore won't actually work? | 15:42 |
| bswartz | As long as the changes are not significant you can consider my +2s to be sticky | 15:42 |
| gouthamr | ganso would prefer if we left all export locations in the share export locations API and added another indication to call out "readonly" nature (for readable replication) | 15:42 |
| bswartz | I'm just making sure I didn't forget anyting | 15:42 |
| ganso | tbarron: they work, but they are read-only. Currently we show all of them and we don't tell the user 2 things: 1) their AZ and 2) that they are read-only | 15:42 |
| ganso | tbarron: the original proposal was going to tag the AZ, but continue to show all of them without distinction | 15:43 |
| ganso | tbarron: the current proposal is changed to don't show the full list anymore, and don't show their AZ anymore (which IMO was valuable) | 15:43 |
| ganso | tbarron: I believe that this is a UI problem | 15:43 |
| ganso | tbarron: we are failing to communicate to users which export locations are writable and which are read-only | 15:44 |
| gouthamr | ganso: you're not really losing the information - as the spec says, the share export locations API is meant to give you export locations of the "active" share | 15:44 |
| tbarron | ganso: let's focus on API, it has to work without making people use UI instead | 15:44 |
| ganso | tbarron: by UI I mean any means of interacting with the user, not just CLI or GUI | 15:45 |
| ganso | tbarron: as a user I would be confused if I list the export locations and I don't them | 15:45 |
| ganso | tbarron: when I invoked that API I want to see export locations, regardless if they are replica ones or not | 15:45 |
| gouthamr | umm.. why? | 15:46 |
| ganso | tbarron: it feels to me that something is wrong if the API is omitting information | 15:46 |
| ganso | gouthamr: ^ | 15:46 |
| gouthamr | i mean, replica information is already hidden when you invoke the share APIs | 15:46 |
| tbarron | ganso: I thnk it's a bug to provide an export location that won't work (for r/w when the share is writable) | 15:46 |
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| ganso | gouthamr: if I have a replica I have to call another API to find out if the export locations are there | 15:47 |
| tbarron | and the proposal is to make that info available under a separate api so that no one will think it is usable | 15:47 |
| ganso | gouthamr: I would need to call 3 APIs to find my export locations: export locations, share replica list, and then share-replica-export-locations | 15:47 |
| ganso | gouthamr: the replica export locations are not hidden today | 15:48 |
| gouthamr | ganso: yes, think of the extra information that is required to provide the distinction - replica_id, az, replica_state | 15:48 |
| ganso | tbarron: they are usable, but read-only. That is different than unusable | 15:48 |
| tbarron | ganso: a writable share has an export location that isn't writable | 15:48 |
| gouthamr | ganso: clients would have to be implementing conditionals to extract the correct share export locations if we provided all these | 15:49 |
| gouthamr | tbarron: i think he means "accessible" | 15:49 |
| ganso | tbarron: yes, but not all exports need to be writable. My latest suggestion was to separate those under another field in the view | 15:49 |
| ganso | tbarron: so no conditionals would need to be written | 15:49 |
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| tbarron | ok, time check | 15:50 |
| ganso | tbarron: if you want the export locations, look at the "export_locations" field, if you want read-only export locations, look at "read_only_export_locations_field | 15:50 |
| ganso | tbarron: no need to write a bunch of code and checks to separate that information | 15:50 |
| tbarron | gouthamr: bswartz what do you think about this ^^? | 15:50 |
| ganso | tbarron: and call several APIs | 15:50 |
| bswartz | Feel like a significant API change | 15:51 |
| bswartz | I'd need to think about it | 15:51 |
| bswartz | My instinct say it's the wrong thing to do | 15:51 |
| tbarron | Shall we give another week to resolve this one? | 15:52 |
| gouthamr | calling several APIs isn't typically a problem - my intent was to simplify this for manilaclient and UI users anyway | 15:52 |
| ganso | bswartz: which proposal is a significant API change and the wrong thing to do? to add a separate API or to add a separate field? | 15:52 |
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| tbarron | ok, we're going to do that, I think we're very close to agreeement on this and the issue at hand, | 15:52 |
| ganso | gouthamr: honestly this doesn't look like a simplification to me | 15:52 |
| tbarron | though important, | 15:53 |
| tbarron | isn't central to the spec | 15:53 |
| tbarron | We need to resolve it though, not push it to code review | 15:53 |
| tbarron | So let's get it resolved by this time next week | 15:53 |
| tbarron | Final spec, | 15:53 |
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| tbarron | * Share back end capabilities improvements | 15:54 |
| tbarron | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/616383/ | 15:54 |
| ganso | I only have a small problem with this one ^: with the way the share_shrink_support column is handled w.r.t. existing shares | 15:54 |
| gouthamr | not a small problem, lol :P | 15:54 |
| tbarron | ganso: right, can that issue be resolved in code review? | 15:55 |
| ganso | 1) I suggested using null instead of "legacy", seems like a very small change | 15:55 |
| tbarron | Again this is not central to the proposal. | 15:55 |
| gouthamr | ganso: sure - that part is.. | 15:55 |
| ganso | 2) document the steps to reset the field | 15:55 |
| gouthamr | ? | 15:55 |
| gouthamr | didn't see that comment | 15:55 |
| ganso | tbarron: yea this is just minor, I don't oppose anything on the spec, this is just a suggestion | 15:56 |
| tbarron | OK, gouthamr - see if you and ganso can come to agreement today on this. | 15:56 |
| gouthamr | ack | 15:56 |
| tbarron | ping us when it is ready. | 15:56 |
| tbarron | Anyone else have objections on this one? | 15:57 |
| tbarron | OK, more generally, we know which ones we want to merge and have | 15:57 |
| tbarron | only extended one of them for another week. | 15:57 |
| tbarron | So spec owners get anyone who has a -1 to remove it | 15:58 |
| tbarron | Putting any remaining concerns for code review on record. | 15:58 |
| tbarron | And ping me. | 15:58 |
| tbarron | I'll take care of rounding up +2s from there ang getting them merged today or tomorrow. | 15:58 |
| tbarron | Thanks everyone! | 15:59 |
| tbarron | We're out of time today, but see you on #openstack-manila ! | 15:59 |
| tbarron | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Nov 29 15:59:39 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2018/manila.2018-11-29-15.01.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2018/manila.2018-11-29-15.01.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/manila/2018/manila.2018-11-29-15.01.log.html | 15:59 |
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