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| fried_rice | #startmeeting nova-scheduler | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Dec 3 14:00:32 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fried_rice. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-scheduler)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler' | 14:00 |
| *** fried_rice is now known as efried | 14:00 | |
| gibi | o/ | 14:00 |
| takashin | o/ | 14:00 |
| efried | #topic last meeting | 14:01 |
| efried | #link last minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2018/nova_scheduler.2018-11-26-14.00.html | 14:01 |
| efried | hm, sec... | 14:01 |
| edleafe | \o | 14:01 |
| *** efried is now known as fried_rice | 14:01 | |
| fried_rice | #chair efried | 14:01 |
| openstack | Warning: Nick not in channel: efried | 14:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: efried fried_rice | 14:02 |
| *** fried_rice is now known as efried | 14:02 | |
| efried | #topic last meeting | 14:02 |
| efried | #link last minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2018/nova_scheduler.2018-11-26-14.00.html | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "last meeting (Meeting topic: nova-scheduler)" | 14:02 | |
| tetsuro | o/ | 14:02 |
| efried | there we go. | 14:02 |
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| efried | Any old business? | 14:02 |
| cdent | o/ | 14:03 |
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| efried | #link latest pupdate: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-discuss/2018-November/000392.html | 14:04 |
| efried | topic from the pupdate: os-resource-classes | 14:04 |
| * alex_xu waves late | 14:04 | |
| efried | without leakypipes here, not sure we're going to get to closure | 14:04 |
| efried | My take, expressed on the ML, was to do *something* rather than continuing to discuss and do nothing. | 14:05 |
| cdent | efried: I think you're right: is basically a guess of just doing something | 14:05 |
| cdent | s/guess/case/ | 14:05 |
| cdent | I haven't done it myself because a) i've been busy with other things, b) I don't want to do too much | 14:06 |
| efried | Mm. | 14:06 |
| cdent | but if it comes to it, I'll reinstate my existing experiments and we'll just do that | 14:06 |
| cdent | If someone else would like to do so, the code is available on the -4 etherpad | 14:06 |
| efried | cdent: do we have an etherpad or anything with the existing proposals? | 14:06 |
| cdent | #link -4 etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/placement-extract-stein-4 | 14:07 |
| efried | oh, does -4 have them all listed? /me looks... | 14:07 |
| cdent | no, it was assumed that other people would add theirs | 14:07 |
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| cdent | but they didn't | 14:07 |
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| cdent | so perhaps that's a sign | 14:07 |
| edleafe | silent assent? | 14:07 |
| * mriedem joins late | 14:07 | |
| efried | I added Jay's | 14:07 |
| efried | I'm in favor of "the simplest thing that could possibly work". | 14:08 |
| cdent | the ptg etherpads had more discussion | 14:08 |
| efried | Which is basically to take the enum that we're using in the placement repo and stuff it in its own repo. | 14:08 |
| efried | I think that's what cdent's thing does. | 14:08 |
| cdent | pretty much | 14:08 |
| efried | talk of making an os-placement-artifacts library has only led to thrashing, so I say we abandon that route for now. | 14:09 |
| cdent | pretty much | 14:09 |
| efried | so we'll have a super thing os-traits and a super thing os-resource-classes and they'll be separate and done. | 14:09 |
| efried | s/thing/thin/g | 14:09 |
| cdent | pretty much | 14:09 |
| efried | cool. Anyone want to volunteer to do the git/gerrit paperwork to seed a real openstack/os-resource-classes with https://github.com/cdent/os-resource-classes ? | 14:10 |
| edleafe | I might have time for that | 14:11 |
| efried | Nice. | 14:11 |
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| efried | #action edleafe to seed openstack/os-resource-classes from https://github.com/cdent/os-resource-classes | 14:11 |
| * efried ignores "might" :P | 14:11 | |
| edleafe | So not to be wishy-washy, I'll *make* time for that | 14:11 |
| efried | Thanks edleafe | 14:11 |
| edleafe | jinxish | 14:11 |
| efried | Moving on. | 14:12 |
| efried | Anything else from the pupdate? | 14:12 |
| efried | or reviews/specs not mentioned therein? | 14:12 |
| cdent | I wanted to know from you, efried, if your provider tree stuff was in the glide path, or still had humps? | 14:12 |
| cdent | smooth sailing or rough seas | 14:13 |
| efried | Just the gate, I think. | 14:13 |
| cdent | good metaphors or bad | 14:13 |
| efried | one sec. | 14:13 |
| efried | #link nova-to-placement traffic reduction series now starting at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/615646/ | 14:13 |
| efried | Bottom patch is +A, in recheck vortex. | 14:13 |
| efried | Next few patches have been revised for minor issues from leakypipes and should be ready for his +2. | 14:14 |
| efried | SchedulerClient evisceration patches have leakypipes +2 | 14:15 |
| efried | and then the top one is pretty fresh. | 14:15 |
| efried | Note that the top three patches are really cleanup, not specific to the nova-to-placement traffic business | 14:15 |
| efried | They're on top to obviate merge conflicts, because I'm a special kind of lazy. | 14:16 |
| cdent | cleanup++ | 14:16 |
| efried | I think I'm hoping mriedem will look at patches 2, 3, 4 in that series, since he's been involved in the bottom two. | 14:17 |
| efried | (including https://review.openstack.org/#/c/615606/ which has merged) | 14:17 |
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| mriedem | yar | 14:18 |
| efried | Thanks mriedem :* | 14:18 |
| efried | Specs-wise, I should mention the cyborg/nova thing. | 14:18 |
| mriedem | is cern running with any of this yet btw? | 14:18 |
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| * bauzas is just following the convo here silently | 14:19 | |
| efried | mriedem: I don't think so. But tssurya and belmoreira have reviewed the patches and +1'd | 14:19 |
| efried | at previous patch sets | 14:19 |
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| efried | since which not much of substance has changed | 14:19 |
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| bauzas | I don't get why the eviscerate patches are important, but meh, I'm +1 with them | 14:20 |
| bauzas | I just need some time for reviewing them | 14:20 |
| efried | tssurya: any chance y'all could pull down the series, say up to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/615705/ , and make sure a) they don't blow up the world, and b) they do what we expect to reduce traffic? | 14:21 |
| efried | bauzas: Important, meh. They're just getting rid of an unnecessary abstraction layer that folks (mainly leakypipes and I) have been advocating ripping out for a while and just hadn't gotten around to. | 14:21 |
| bauzas | well ok | 14:22 |
| bauzas | that said, I'm still needing some comments for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/599208/ :) | 14:22 |
| efried | If nothing else, having that SchedulerClient in the way made it hard to search for usages of those methods in PyCharm | 14:22 |
| efried | bauzas: ack, that one's on my list for sure. It's actually on the agenda here in a minute... | 14:23 |
| efried | #topic Extraction | 14:24 |
| efried | #link Extraction etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/placement-extract-stein-4 | 14:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Extraction (Meeting topic: nova-scheduler)" | 14:24 | |
| efried | libvirt/xenapi reshaper series <== need reviews! | 14:25 |
| efried | #link libvirt reshaper https://review.openstack.org/#/c/599208/ | 14:25 |
| efried | #link xen reshaper (middle of series) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/521041 | 14:25 |
| efried | Last time we agreed to continue deferring work on the reshaper FFU framework. | 14:25 |
| efried | Any other extraction-related topics or discussion that we haven't already covered? | 14:25 |
| cdent | the functional tests in nova, using external placement, are happy now | 14:26 |
| gibi | efried: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/617941/ now works but there is some controversy | 14:26 |
| efried | cdent: ++ \o/ | 14:26 |
| gibi | efried: about nova-status check test | 14:26 |
| cdent | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/617941/ | 14:26 |
| cdent | yeah, that's the stickler we need to resolve | 14:26 |
| * efried hears nova-status, looks at mriedem | 14:27 | |
| cdent | related to that, zzzeek has some cleaning up on the database fixtures: | 14:27 |
| cdent | #link data fixture cleanup https://review.openstack.org/#/c/621304/ | 14:27 |
| mriedem | that change doesn't drop the in-tree nova db objects for placement, | 14:27 |
| mriedem | so i don't see why that change needs to drop the nova-status tests at all | 14:27 |
| mriedem | they can go later when the in-tree placement code is dropped, right? | 14:27 |
| cdent | mriedem: it's child does? | 14:27 |
| cdent | its | 14:27 |
| mriedem | so let the child worry about it | 14:28 |
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| cdent | can do that if you like, but it seemed odd to get rid of a bunch of placement tests and then not get rid of that one | 14:29 |
| cdent | but whatever people like | 14:29 |
| mriedem | it's not a placement test, | 14:29 |
| mriedem | it's a nova test | 14:29 |
| mriedem | it's just that it uses the db rather than the api | 14:29 |
| cdent | it's miscegeny | 14:29 |
| cdent | which must be purged! | 14:29 |
| * cdent seeks therapy | 14:29 | |
| cdent | i'll put the test back this afternoon sometime | 14:30 |
| cdent | but we're still going to need to resolve how that command and the other "look at placement" commands that are in nova are going to be after these changes | 14:32 |
| gibi | regarding zzzeek's fixtur cleanup, I'm running nova functional against it | 14:32 |
| gibi | which makes me wonder if we want to trigger nova functional for each placement change in CI | 14:32 |
| mriedem | i can feel the bristling from here | 14:33 |
| mriedem | if anything, maybe just an experimental queue job | 14:33 |
| mriedem | i don't think placement changes want to gate on nova functional tests | 14:33 |
| cdent | that would be teh suck | 14:34 |
| cdent | for everyone | 14:34 |
| efried | no? | 14:34 |
| mriedem | experimental queue allows you to run it on-demand in case you worry about a breaking change to the fixture | 14:34 |
| mriedem | but do we expect that to happen very often? | 14:34 |
| mriedem | i wouldn't think so | 14:34 |
| cdent | nor me | 14:35 |
| gibi | OK, thanks for the feedback | 14:35 |
| efried | Ready to move on? | 14:35 |
| gibi | yes | 14:35 |
| efried | #topic bugs | 14:35 |
| efried | #link Placement bugs https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=placement | 14:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova-scheduler)" | 14:35 | |
| efried | any bugs to highlight? | 14:36 |
| * mriedem takes kid to bus stop | 14:36 | |
| efried | #topic opens | 14:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: nova-scheduler)" | 14:37 | |
| cdent | I have one I find interesting | 14:37 |
| efried | #undo | 14:37 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: #topic opens | 14:37 |
| efried | cdent: go | 14:37 |
| cdent | #link ensure aggregates under load https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1804453 | 14:37 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1804453 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "maximum recursion possible while setting aggregates in placement" [Undecided,New] | 14:37 |
| cdent | you have to really slam resource provider creation and aggregate manipulation to tickle that, but when you do the system gets very upset | 14:37 |
| efried | wow. Why are we recursing there? I instinctively twitch at that. | 14:38 |
| cdent | it's not real recursion | 14:39 |
| cdent | well it is, it's a loop that if it gets stuck for long enough triggers "I've called this code too many times" | 14:39 |
| cdent | but yes, it needs a way to exit itself before then | 14:40 |
| efried | and it's caused by real conflicts happening, or the same conflict getting hit a bunch of times in a row while the other thread is trying to finish up? | 14:41 |
| cdent | from a service mgt standpoint, the way to avoid the problem is to have higher concurrency in the service | 14:41 |
| cdent | a single thread gets stuck while other threads are succeeding | 14:41 |
| cdent | it's a very specific set of circumstances to trigger it, and placeload happens to have those circumstances | 14:42 |
| cdent | you also have to under-provision the server so that it has too few threads | 14:42 |
| cdent | but none of that really matters: what matters is that we have a place in the code that is insufficiently robust. it's not defensive against the unexpected | 14:43 |
| cdent | exactly because of the reasos that make you twitch | 14:43 |
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| efried | Have you identified the piece of code in question? I don't see it in the bug report. If you could drop a link in there, I'd like to have a look at it. | 14:45 |
| efried | just _ensure_aggregate? | 14:45 |
| cdent | yes, ensure_aggregate calls ensure_aggregate | 14:45 |
| cdent | there's a race between checing for an agg id, and generating that agg new | 14:46 |
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| cdent | anyway, I don't know that we need to be belabor that now, I just wanted to point it out as a thing of interest. It was fun to see/experience | 14:48 |
| efried | Seems like the simplest thing to get rid of the stack overflow is just to get rid of the recursion. At a glance, this could be turned into a loop very easily. | 14:49 |
| * cdent nods | 14:49 | |
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| efried | If that happened, would it still be possible for it to spin "forever"? | 14:49 |
| efried | I imagine we reach stack overflow fairly quickly (wallclock-wise) with the recursion. | 14:49 |
| efried | Couple seconds of non-recursive looping and we come out the other side? | 14:50 |
| cdent | we probably want a combo of a limited loop (which errors if it reaches its end) and an exponential backoff or random sleep | 14:51 |
| efried | This is also creating a new writer context every time it recurses. That seems... bad? | 14:51 |
| cdent | so yeah, it's code that needs to be fixed, we don't need to fix it here though | 14:51 |
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| efried | or is that necessary and part of the reason we're recursing rather than looping? | 14:51 |
| efried | okay, yeah, let's take it offline. | 14:52 |
| efried | #topic opens | 14:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: nova-scheduler)" | 14:52 | |
| efried | anyone? | 14:52 |
| efried | (hello, bot?) | 14:52 |
| efried | (shrug) | 14:52 |
| mriedem | fwiw i've thought about adding a "performance/scaling" doc into nova before when stuff like this comes up, | 14:53 |
| mriedem | i.e. known ways things can go south | 14:53 |
| mriedem | more as a dumping ground for not forgetting about known issues | 14:53 |
| mriedem | but, you know | 14:53 |
| efried | good idea. Seems to me like cdent has answered a lot of placement-related scaling questions before (in blogs maybe?). That info could go into docs very nicely. | 14:53 |
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| cdent | a) that's true, b) most of the solutions are just standard "I'm a web app" solutions, c) where they are not it is because our code is bad and relatively easy to fix and we should . The current situation is c | 14:54 |
| mriedem | from a nova pov, i was thinking more about the myriad config options we have for tweaking things when scaling, | 14:55 |
| mriedem | e.g. the way cern restricts projects to a small number of cells | 14:55 |
| mriedem | a place to document things one can run into and ways people have worked around those things | 14:55 |
| mriedem | anywho | 14:58 |
| cdent | the only other thing I'd add to "opens" at the moment is to reinforce from the pupdate that there are multiple deployment projects doing placement bits and pieces that could use our eyes | 14:58 |
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| efried | okeydokey. Thanks all. | 14:59 |
| efried | #endmeeting | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Dec 3 14:59:49 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2018/nova_scheduler.2018-12-03-14.00.html | 14:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2018/nova_scheduler.2018-12-03-14.00.txt | 14:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2018/nova_scheduler.2018-12-03-14.00.log.html | 14:59 |
| cdent | thanks efried | 15:00 |
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