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| rosmaita | #startmeeting cinder | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 15 14:00:09 2020 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rosmaita. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 14:00 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 14:00 |
| rosmaita | #topic roll call | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 14:00 | |
| smcginnis | o/ | 14:00 |
| whoami-rajat | Hi | 14:00 |
| enriquetaso | o/ | 14:00 |
| eharney | hi | 14:00 |
| rajinir | hi | 14:00 |
| lseki | hi | 14:01 |
| rosmaita | hello everyone | 14:01 |
| rosmaita | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-victoria-meetings | 14:01 |
| rosmaita | #topic updates | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "updates (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 14:01 | |
| rosmaita | some upcoming events | 14:01 |
| e0ne | hi | 14:01 |
| tosky | hi | 14:01 |
| rosmaita | ok, well i cannot copy & paste from the etherpad | 14:02 |
| rosmaita | so i direct you to the etherpad for links | 14:02 |
| rosmaita | openstack 10th anniversary celebration is tomorrow | 14:03 |
| rosmaita | berlin summit call for proposals closes on 4 august | 14:03 |
| LiangFang | o/ | 14:03 |
| *** geguileo has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 14:03 | |
| rosmaita | i sent out a proposal to EOL ocata and pike (we will discuss more later) | 14:03 |
| *** sfernand has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 14:04 | |
| rosmaita | we'll be having the last meeting each month as a videoconference, first one will be 29 july | 14:04 |
| *** whoami-rajat has quit IRC | 14:04 | |
| rosmaita | and, this week is R-13 | 14:04 |
| rosmaita | which gives us 2 weeks until milestone 2 | 14:04 |
| rosmaita | which is notable for the new driver merge deadline | 14:04 |
| rosmaita | there are 3 major driver changes that i am aware of at the moment | 14:04 |
| rosmaita | (see links on etherpad) | 14:05 |
| rosmaita | the hitachi driver looks ready -- final holdup was the CI crashed, but it is operational again | 14:05 |
| rosmaita | so top priority is to get that merged | 14:05 |
| smcginnis | Just approved. | 14:05 |
| rosmaita | thanks! | 14:05 |
| rosmaita | ok, the new top priority is | 14:06 |
| rosmaita | new "powerstore" cinder driver | 14:06 |
| rosmaita | and the other big driver change is that Dell wants to rebrand vxflexos | 14:06 |
| rosmaita | which touches a lot of code | 14:06 |
| *** whoami-rajat__ has joined #openstack-meeting-alt | 14:07 | |
| rosmaita | anyway, please keep those in mind | 14:07 |
| rosmaita | any other announcements from anyone? | 14:07 |
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| m5z | hi =] | 14:08 |
| rosmaita | #topic victoria specs | 14:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "victoria specs (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 14:08 | |
| rosmaita | ok, we are a bit late on these | 14:08 |
| rosmaita | but the way it's looking is: | 14:09 |
| rosmaita | default volume type overrides -- had some API URL naming/structure issues, i think those are settled | 14:09 |
| rosmaita | modern compression algos -- depended on a requirements change that has been approved & merged | 14:10 |
| rosmaita | so that's ready too | 14:10 |
| rosmaita | volume-list-query has been turned into a bug, so it think that one can be abandoned | 14:10 |
| rosmaita | revert *any* snap -- we asked them to hold for wallaby | 14:10 |
| rosmaita | reset state robustification -- looks good, but i don't think anyone has volunteered to work on it? | 14:11 |
| smcginnis | rosmaita: Cinder spec freeze is next week, right? | 14:11 |
| rosmaita | i think 2 weeks ago | 14:11 |
| rosmaita | we had an extension until friday last week | 14:12 |
| smcginnis | Oh right, June. | 14:12 |
| rosmaita | yeah, so we are a bit behind on approvals | 14:12 |
| rosmaita | sam hasn't updated the "remove quota usage cache" spec, and it's not clear to me that he was going to do the coding for it | 14:13 |
| rosmaita | so it's looking like that won't happen in V unless someone here is anxious to work on it? | 14:14 |
| * rosmaita waits for someone to say they are excited to work on it | 14:14 | |
| rosmaita | ok, to summarize: please look over "default volume type overrides" and "modern compression algos" -- those are ready | 14:16 |
| rosmaita | #topic festival of EOL | 14:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "festival of EOL (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 14:16 | |
| rosmaita | ok, link to the email i sent to the ml on the agenda | 14:17 |
| rosmaita | looks like no one wants to keep ocata around | 14:17 |
| rosmaita | there is one person who would like to keep pike | 14:17 |
| tosky | at least one person is trying | 14:17 |
| rosmaita | but i personally have no interest in this | 14:17 |
| smcginnis | Ocata was released Feb 2017. | 14:18 |
| rosmaita | so what i want to ask is, is there any cinder core present who wants to "adopt" stable/pike | 14:18 |
| smcginnis | Pike was released in August. | 14:18 |
| e0ne | +1 to mark pike as EOL | 14:18 |
| rosmaita | i really don't have the psychic energy to worry about pike | 14:18 |
| rosmaita | because we have plenty of other gate breakages to worry about | 14:19 |
| rosmaita | so, my feeling is, even if there is a patch to fix the pike gate right now | 14:19 |
| rosmaita | i don't see the point in merging it if we are going to EOL it next week | 14:19 |
| smcginnis | I've been trying to pay some attention to stable branches, but with less time and more issues on more recent branches, I don't think I can spend much time on pike. | 14:19 |
| rosmaita | yeah, and i don't see the point it keeping it open with so many other open branches | 14:20 |
| smcginnis | We have a hard enough time getting people to keep master working. :) | 14:20 |
| rosmaita | exactly | 14:20 |
| rosmaita | ok, so to summarize: | 14:21 |
| e0ne | smcginnis: +1 | 14:21 |
| rosmaita | unless a specific cinder core steps forward to adopt stable/pike as their own personal project, I plan to ask for it to be EOL'd as outlined in that email | 14:21 |
| rosmaita | meaning, i will propose the EOL patch on 22 july | 14:22 |
| rosmaita | so that gives people 1 more week to think about this, but the log for this meeting indicates what the general consensus is | 14:22 |
| rosmaita | several people vocally opposed, and no one in favor | 14:22 |
| eharney | +1 to EOLing pike | 14:23 |
| rosmaita | of keeping it open i mean | 14:23 |
| jungleboyj | I think it is ok to plan to EOL it. | 14:23 |
| rosmaita | ok, we are almost out of cores! | 14:23 |
| rosmaita | looks like no one wants to adopt pike | 14:23 |
| rosmaita | #topic __DEFAULT__ type discussion continued | 14:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "__DEFAULT__ type discussion continued (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 14:24 | |
| rosmaita | whoami-rajat__ you have the floor | 14:24 |
| whoami-rajat___ | thanks rosmaita | 14:24 |
| whoami-rajat___ | Hi everyone | 14:24 |
| whoami-rajat___ | this topic is just to continue the discussion we had last week | 14:24 |
| whoami-rajat___ | I've created an etherpad regarding the points discussed last week | 14:25 |
| whoami-rajat___ | In summary it is, what the actual design was vs what suggestions were made last week | 14:25 |
| whoami-rajat___ | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/__DEFAULT___type_discussion | 14:25 |
| * whoami-rajat___ waits for people to read etherpad | 14:27 | |
| * whoami-rajat___ also realizes using last week in every sentence | 14:27 | |
| rosmaita | i think the issue that came up on the bug is, an operator can set a default type, but a user can still create volumes of type __DEFAULT__ which is exactly what the operator does not want | 14:28 |
| whoami-rajat___ | yep, but the initial idea was it is also a type that can have properties and can be used as a normal default | 14:29 |
| rosmaita | yeah, but kind of doesn't work if the operator wants to change the default type maybe because the backend is full or got a new one or something | 14:30 |
| rosmaita | shouldn't have to change the properties of __DEFAULT__ to do that | 14:31 |
| whoami-rajat___ | yeah, for that the solution is they can set a different default_volume_type in cinder.conf | 14:31 |
| * smcginnis still thinks __DEFAULT__ should not be returned in API calls and should not allow setting extra specs | 14:32 | |
| * rosmaita agrees with smcginnis | 14:32 | |
| eharney | a lot of these questions seem to be just around whether __DEFAULT__ is actually a volume type or a special thing | 14:33 |
| whoami-rajat___ | i more see this as a documentation issue that operators and users aren't aware what the __DEFAULT__ type is, and if we want to do the required changes to not return it, i don't see a proper plan to do it | 14:34 |
| smcginnis | I think we've lost sight of why it was proposed to be added in the first place. It is (or was) perfectly valid for someone to create a volume without specifying a volume type. But our code assumed there would be one, so we wanted to have a placeholder to make sure we could keep making that assumption. | 14:34 |
| smcginnis | It never should have been something exposed to an end user and definitely should not have been something they were allowed to modify. | 14:35 |
| eharney | that is not the thinking i had when we started this | 14:35 |
| rosmaita | eharney: please say more, because i share smcginnis's impression | 14:36 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: ++ | 14:36 |
| geguileo | eharney: +1 | 14:36 |
| jungleboyj | We just didn't think about the impact of being able to see it externally. | 14:36 |
| eharney | my impression was that life would be simpler if volumes all had types, so we would just make a type that we could give to existing untyped volumes, and going forward all of them would have types | 14:36 |
| geguileo | that wasn't the impression I had either | 14:36 |
| eharney | i'm not sure why there is this other story about this not being a real volume type and being handled as a special case everywhere | 14:37 |
| eharney | that isn't necessary to achieve what we wanted to achieve | 14:37 |
| smcginnis | What I think we wanted to achieve is to stop playing whack-a-mole with places in the code where we expected a volume type to be associated with a volume. So we wanted to have something that would be used when none was specified. | 14:38 |
| eharney | my theory was that there just wouldn't be a "none" anymore | 14:38 |
| whoami-rajat___ | The idea that all untyped volumes will be migrated to __DEFAULT__ type and users won't be able to see it, i don't see any straightforward way of doing this. also the type always exists so users can show it ? or try to create a type with this name but fail ? | 14:39 |
| eharney | handling it as a special case also leads to other issues to think through... what do you show for "volume show", how do you not confuse people who are doing a retype, etc | 14:39 |
| smcginnis | whoami-rajat___: That was part of the reason for naming it __DEFAULT__. To avoid the change someone would try to create a volume type named Default or something. | 14:40 |
| smcginnis | eharney: I would think no volume type, since they did not specify one and no default volume type was configured. | 14:40 |
| whoami-rajat___ | smcginnis: i think the idea was there wouldn't be any existing type named __DEFAULT__ before upgrade so it doesn't clash with this type | 14:41 |
| smcginnis | Right | 14:41 |
| smcginnis | And less likely someone would try to create that type later on. | 14:41 |
| whoami-rajat___ | smcginnis: but then again the first part is still very complex for me | 14:42 |
| smcginnis | Which first part? | 14:42 |
| whoami-rajat___ | if a volume was migrated from None to __DEFAULT__ type, what do we display volume_type in volume show command for that volume? | 14:43 |
| smcginnis | Nothing. | 14:43 |
| smcginnis | They have not assigned the volume a volume type. | 14:43 |
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| smcginnis | We are just using __DEFAULT__ internally so we don't blow up because we aren't smart enough to write out code to handle not having a type. | 14:43 |
| eharney | is there some benefit to keeping around the idea of volumes with no type other than the fact that it was like that before? | 14:44 |
| eharney | my impression is that in Serious Real Life Deployments (tm) most people are using types anyway | 14:44 |
| smcginnis | Why should we require a type? If that's the case, let's drop all this and fail any volume creation if a type isn't defined and set as the default in cinder.conf if they have not explicitly provided it. | 14:44 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 14:46 |
| whoami-rajat___ | I've an idea, make __DEFAULT__ a normal type, allow users to delete it but the condition is there should atleast exist 1 type in the deployment? | 14:46 |
| rosmaita | well, that plus the default_volume_type is defined | 14:47 |
| smcginnis | 1 type in the deployment and the default_volume_type set. | 14:47 |
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| smcginnis | rosmaita: ++ | 14:47 |
| rosmaita | whoami-rajat__ that would address the request in the bug | 14:48 |
| whoami-rajat___ | rosmaita: yep, i think that's what the operator wanted in the bug | 14:49 |
| rosmaita | the operator has defined everything the way they want it, and just want to get rid of __DEFAULT__ since it is confusing customers | 14:49 |
| rosmaita | at the risk of being accused of being a bikeshedder, let's think about this some more | 14:49 |
| rosmaita | but whoami-rajat__ please update your etherpad with the latest proposal | 14:50 |
| whoami-rajat___ | but this goes for all types, any type before delete would make a check for default_volume_type set and atleast 1 type in deployment | 14:50 |
| rosmaita | and the value of default_volume_type exists | 14:50 |
| rosmaita | yes | 14:50 |
| jungleboyj | Makes sense. | 14:50 |
| whoami-rajat___ | rosmaita: yep | 14:50 |
| whoami-rajat___ | ok, i will think of a way of implementing this with no new bugs and update the etherpad | 14:51 |
| rosmaita | thanks! | 14:51 |
| whoami-rajat___ | would appreciate any more suggestion on the same | 14:51 |
| rosmaita | yes, let's all think about corner cases so we don't have to do this again | 14:51 |
| whoami-rajat___ | yep | 14:52 |
| whoami-rajat___ | thanks everyone | 14:52 |
| rosmaita | #topic any reason to keep non-voting jobs in the stable branches | 14:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "any reason to keep non-voting jobs in the stable branches (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 14:52 | |
| smcginnis | Now we should change the default name to DEFAULT since we aren't trying to hide it. :] | 14:52 |
| rosmaita | that is a real question | 14:53 |
| rosmaita | i just noticed that they use resources, and fail a lot | 14:53 |
| whoami-rajat___ | smcginnis: will add that suggestion as well | 14:53 |
| rosmaita | whoami-rajat__ please don't | 14:53 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, probably too late now. | 14:54 |
| whoami-rajat___ | rosmaita: ok :P | 14:54 |
| smcginnis | rosmaita: I think we might need to keep some of the non-voting jobs, at least in more recent stable branches. | 14:54 |
| jungleboyj | Yeah, lets not change any more on that. | 14:54 |
| smcginnis | But we can probably get rid of some of them. | 14:54 |
| eharney | as someone noted in the etherpad, the nfs job probably should be voting | 14:54 |
| eharney | rally, i would question | 14:54 |
| eharney | pylint is non-voting but helps us review backports better so i'd prefer to keep that one | 14:55 |
| tosky | the nfs job has an identity crisis right now, we may need to ask infra because it gets stuck and it doesn't even return logs in some instances | 14:55 |
| smcginnis | bandit can probably go. | 14:55 |
| lseki | I'd ask to keep the nfs job, at least until the online extend bug is fixed | 14:55 |
| smcginnis | lvm-multibackend can probably go. | 14:56 |
| tosky | smcginnis: is a separate bandit job needed? In sahara we merged it with the pep8 job long ago | 14:56 |
| tosky | smcginnis: oh, why should lvm-multibackend go? | 14:56 |
| eharney | agreed re: bandit | 14:56 |
| tosky | we don't have other multibackend jobs right now iirc | 14:56 |
| smcginnis | tosky: I think we originally had it there too, but then separated out bandit. | 14:56 |
| rosmaita | tosky: for a while bandit was so unstable, that it kept breaking things | 14:57 |
| smcginnis | ++ | 14:57 |
| rosmaita | they had poor release control | 14:57 |
| tosky | but probably it's not the case anymore? Anyway | 14:57 |
| tosky | I'm more concerned about the lvm-multibackend | 14:57 |
| eharney | i would ask whether the bandit job has ever caught something interesting on a backport. i would bet not | 14:57 |
| smcginnis | True. We could probably merge it now. | 14:57 |
| smcginnis | eharney: Very true too. | 14:57 |
| rosmaita | running low on time | 14:58 |
| rosmaita | i propose: | 14:58 |
| rosmaita | i will put up a patch removing all non-voting jobs from stable/ussuri, and we can fight it out on the review | 14:58 |
| rosmaita | i am happy to leave some, or promote stable ones | 14:59 |
| rosmaita | but don't want to run jobs that nobody looks at | 14:59 |
| rosmaita | i won't put a DNM on the patch, because i imagine it will get immediate -2s :) | 14:59 |
| rosmaita | and that's all | 15:00 |
| rosmaita | thanks everyone, make way for horizon | 15:00 |
| rosmaita | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 15 15:00:14 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2020/cinder.2020-07-15-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2020/cinder.2020-07-15-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2020/cinder.2020-07-15-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
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| jungleboyj | Thanks. | 15:00 |
| e0ne | rosmaita: thanks. we cancelled a meeting today | 15:00 |
| rosmaita | oh, so we can continue discussion! | 15:00 |
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