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ttx | hola | 21:01 |
---|---|---|
nikhil | o/ | 21:01 |
thingee | and now here! | 21:02 |
thingee | courtesy ping for Qiming TravT gordc dirk mriedem SergeyLukjanov | 21:02 |
elmiko | hi | 21:02 |
thingee | courtesy ping for daemontool jroll boris-42 redrobot flaper87 rhochmuth | 21:02 |
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thingee | courtesy ping for fungi flwang dims vipul johnthetubaguy rakhmerov | 21:02 |
thingee | courtesy ping for docaedo stevemar mtreinish bswartz adam_g adrian_otto | 21:02 |
thingee | courtesy ping for zigo Piet sdake mugsie sheeprine thinrichs | 21:02 |
thingee | courtesy ping for jklare loquacities smelikyan Daisy skraynev odyssey4me | 21:02 |
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thingee | courtesy ping for catherineD dhellmann dprince hyakuhei notmyname devkulkarni | 21:02 |
thingee | courtesy ping for emilienm cp16net claudiub armax david-lyle angdraug | 21:02 |
thingee | courtesy ping for smcginnis dtroyer | 21:02 |
dims | o/ | 21:02 |
dhellmann | o/ | 21:02 |
EmilienM | o/ | 21:02 |
annegentle | heyo | 21:02 |
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thingee | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:02 |
harlowja | yo | 21:02 |
openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 12 21:02:56 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:03 | |
openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:03 |
cdent | o/ | 21:03 |
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angdraug | o/ | 21:03 |
* rockyg is still sleepily peeking out from under that stone.... | 21:03 | |
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thingee | sorry for jumping people around. Just making sure they know about this new irc channel for the cross project meeting | 21:03 |
fungi | heh | 21:03 |
annegentle | no worries thanks thingee | 21:03 |
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fungi | indeed, i almost forgot after several weeks of no agenda | 21:03 |
thingee | we have a lovely agenda | 21:03 |
thingee | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:03 |
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thingee | since we have no past items | 21:04 |
thingee | #topic team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) | 21:04 |
*** openstack changes topic to "team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:04 | |
docaedo | o/ | 21:04 |
bknudson_ | openstack security project meetup is this week | 21:04 |
bknudson_ | and barbican | 21:04 |
thingee | do we have a wiki page with all of the meetups? | 21:05 |
bknudson_ | yep, sprints | 21:05 |
bknudson_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints | 21:05 |
thingee | thank you | 21:05 |
* jroll lurks | 21:06 | |
thingee | just a reminder of dhellmann's release countdown http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/083507.html | 21:06 |
thingee | mitaka 2 coming jan 19-21 | 21:06 |
thingee | time flies | 21:06 |
elmiko | seriously... | 21:07 |
thingee | #link http://docs.openstack.org/releases/schedules/mitaka.html | 21:07 |
annegentle | when you're having fun | 21:07 |
thingee | ok going, going | 21:07 |
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ttx | oh are we here now | 21:07 |
annegentle | welcome ttx! | 21:07 |
thingee | #topic API guides vision - developer.openstack.org and REST API docs | 21:07 |
*** openstack changes topic to "API guides vision - developer.openstack.org and REST API docs (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:07 | |
annegentle | hey | 21:08 |
thingee | annegentle: hi | 21:08 |
annegentle | I wanted to make sure I set up the current situation with application dev docs, so that project teams know what's up. | 21:08 |
bknudson_ | in keystone we have the v3 spec is just in rst | 21:08 |
annegentle | it's an exciting time with 900 API calls in OpenStack that are documented. We now have over 30 REST API services, but 12 projects that have API reference info | 21:08 |
annegentle | #link http://developer.openstack.org/ | 21:09 |
annegentle | We have a new landing page design, and we're starting to get even more how-to content which is super exciting. | 21:09 |
annegentle | bknudson_: yeah that's part of this launch also, is getting out of Docbook/WADL to RST/Swagger. | 21:09 |
* stevemar sneaks into the back of the room to listen | 21:09 | |
elmiko | annegentle: sahara is working towards this with out proposed v2 api | 21:10 |
elmiko | s/out/our | 21:10 |
annegentle | So, we need more how-to, we need centralized locations for both the content and the reviewers who know what's up for this audience, and we need standards. | 21:10 |
annegentle | Ask and ye shall recieve. | 21:10 |
annegentle | receive? | 21:10 |
annegentle | I can't spell. | 21:10 |
annegentle | Anyway. | 21:10 |
annegentle | #link http://www.openstack.org/blog/2016/01/whats-next-for-application-developer-guides/ | 21:10 |
bknudson_ | do you have an automatic conversion from wads to swagger? | 21:11 |
bknudson_ | wadl | 21:11 |
annegentle | that post outlines a lot of the vision -- and maybe you got a chance to read it before coming here -- I wanted to be available for any questions | 21:11 |
annegentle | bknudson_: just last week we brought in fairy-slipper, a migration tool | 21:11 |
annegentle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/fairy-slipper | 21:12 |
jroll | annegentle: so, the docs team doesn't want to add projects to the install guides and such right now... just to be sure, this is open to all projects? | 21:12 |
annegentle | This tool had a proof-of-concept last release, and now we're collaborating more widely with the API working group. | 21:12 |
bknudson_ | really what we need to do is convert our v3 api spec to swagger -- http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/api/v3/identity-api-v3.html | 21:12 |
elmiko | annegentle: i'm curious about adding links to the api-wg wiki and guidelines on developer.os.o, wondering if adding another section to the API portion would be appropriate | 21:12 |
annegentle | jroll: yes, there isn't as heavy a testing requirement on REST API and app dev docs | 21:13 |
jroll | annegentle: cool, ty :D | 21:13 |
elmiko | we've got "References" now, but about a "Working Group" section or something? | 21:13 |
annegentle | elmiko: sure | 21:13 |
annegentle | elmiko: it'd be great to rework that landing, but the first step was to get the landing page looking closer to a real web design :) | 21:13 |
elmiko | right | 21:14 |
annegentle | We won't do all the WADL migration at once, so teams should continue to update WADL in api-site so that we know to migrate it | 21:14 |
annegentle | teams can also investigate building how-to documents for API guides similar to what Compute is doing | 21:14 |
elmiko | will the individual teams eventually be responsible for creating their own swagger? | 21:14 |
annegentle | #link http://developer.openstack.org/api-guide/compute/ | 21:14 |
annegentle | elmiko: yes, that's idea, since the teams can review the design the best | 21:15 |
annegentle | elmiko: while following api-wg guidelines | 21:15 |
elmiko | annegentle: awesome, thanks | 21:15 |
annegentle | source for that api-guide is in the nova repo | 21:15 |
jroll | oh, the source goes in the project tree, awesome | 21:16 |
annegentle | Teams should generally be aware of developer docs helping out their application devs immensely. | 21:16 |
annegentle | jroll: cool, glad you see the vision :) | 21:16 |
annegentle | We | 21:16 |
bknudson_ | Maybe it would be worth it to start fresh with the identity docs rather than convert the wadls, since keystone team hasn't been looking at wadls. | 21:16 |
elmiko | bknudson_: yea, i almost feel the same about sahara. i'm not sure how far behind the wadls are | 21:17 |
annegentle | it's interesting, we had over 120 contributors to the WADLs last release | 21:17 |
elmiko | nice | 21:17 |
annegentle | so even if you think they're not updated, they're the most contributed to docs as of late | 21:17 |
annegentle | our most recent docs core contributors worked mostly on the API reference docs, KATO Tomoyuki. | 21:18 |
bknudson_ | we don't want to have 2 sources of truth for the api spec. | 21:19 |
annegentle | so I think migration's the way to go, unless a team really has a great Swagger file. For example, me and a coworker wrote one for Magnum since they didn't have a WADL anyway. | 21:19 |
annegentle | bknudson_: for sure | 21:19 |
annegentle | now, to jroll's point, we are starting with the six infra-services for migration purposes | 21:19 |
annegentle | Identity, Compute, Images, Networks, Block Storage, Object Storage | 21:20 |
annegentle | since we need to test the migration | 21:20 |
annegentle | Additional needs and calls to help: | 21:20 |
annegentle | We need to know the WADL-to-Swagger captures the API definitions complete as possible. That's fairy-slipper work. | 21:21 |
annegentle | We need to publish Swagger plus RST using flat files and file copy similar to how docs jobs work today. | 21:21 |
annegentle | We need build jobs and content in project's repos for how-to and tutorial examples for how to use your REST APIs | 21:22 |
annegentle | That's all I've got! | 21:22 |
bknudson_ | the how-tos are in the project repo and the swagger is elsewhere? | 21:22 |
annegentle | Feel free to ask me anything in #openstack-sdks or #openstack-doc and please check out fairy-slipper | 21:22 |
annegentle | bknudson_: yes, we have a couple of ideas for further integration, and ideas for generating swagger, but have to take small steps that give continuous deliverables to this audience. | 21:23 |
thingee | annegentle: so where do we go from here to get people involved from their respected projects? | 21:23 |
annegentle | thingee: each project should have an API liaison and I can reach out directly to them | 21:23 |
thingee | excellent | 21:23 |
thingee | anything else for annegentle before we move on...? | 21:24 |
annegentle | Also, people need to write tutorials! There are some cool things you can make with OpenStack infrastructure :) | 21:24 |
elmiko | does the doc team meeting usually cover the topics related to swagger and descriptive api doc gens? | 21:24 |
nikhil | annegentle: should we add a section to the CPL list for API Liaison work? | 21:24 |
annegentle | elmiko: yep, we have a standing item on the agenda as a "specialty team" | 21:24 |
elmiko | annegentle: awesome, thanks | 21:24 |
annegentle | nikhil: that would be great, I was just going to look for that. A while back we had API specialists, but I'm not sure that list is maintained. | 21:25 |
nikhil | gotcha | 21:25 |
elmiko | what about the api-wg liaisons? | 21:25 |
smcginnis | Pretty sure it's not. :) | 21:25 |
nikhil | I am thinking this page for tracking | 21:25 |
nikhil | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons | 21:25 |
annegentle | I would be amiss if I didn't thank people like Russell Sim and Karen Bradshow for getting us this far! | 21:25 |
annegentle | elmiko: that's the list I was thinking of, api-wg liaisons! | 21:25 |
elmiko | \o/ | 21:25 |
annegentle | elmiko: do you have that list? | 21:26 |
thingee | thanks annegentle! | 21:26 |
elmiko | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/api-wg/liaisons.html | 21:26 |
annegentle | #info Many thanks to Russell Sim and Karen Bradshow for getting us this far! | 21:26 |
annegentle | elmiko: fancy json no less! Nice. | 21:26 |
elmiko | we used to have a nice table in the wiki, not sure what happened to it | 21:26 |
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thingee | #topic Cross-Project Spec Liaisons | 21:27 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Cross-Project Spec Liaisons (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:27 | |
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fungi | by default these should be ptls | 21:27 |
thingee | ok so so some time ago I spoke on the idea of having representatives from each project who can help with cross-project specs | 21:27 |
thingee | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-12-01-21.00.html | 21:27 |
thingee | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-12-01-21.00.html | 21:27 |
thingee | fungi: definitely | 21:28 |
fungi | at least that's how our other liaisoning is done (i think i just made up a word) | 21:28 |
lifeless | liasing I think | 21:28 |
thingee | unfortunately expressed at the summit ptls don't always have time for this meeting or the efforts happening in cross-project areas. Alarming I agree, but I need someone from teams to participate and get ptls involved when necessary | 21:28 |
sdake | fungi liasing | 21:28 |
sdake | is the word ;) | 21:28 |
elmiko | lifeless: +1 | 21:28 |
fungi | anyway, consider infra to be ptl-liaisonated for now, and i'll gladly delegate i it becomes necessary | 21:29 |
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thingee | that leads me to the first attempt of defining this group | 21:29 |
thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/266072/3 | 21:29 |
fungi | liaisonated is definitely a word ;) | 21:29 |
elmiko | it should be =) | 21:29 |
thingee | as stated ptls are default. | 21:29 |
thingee | it will be listed in https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons for someone else to sign up | 21:30 |
rockyg | thingee, maybe a weekly crossproject posting of open reviews, summary/title and status? Then lots of people would get a gentle reminder every week | 21:30 |
thingee | but the responsibilites are more or less of what we discussed in that previous meeting. | 21:30 |
cdent | I thikn I managed to volunteer or get volunteered for nova | 21:30 |
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thingee | assuming we can agree on the responsibilities in the project team guide, I will announce on the ML the signup table for each team | 21:31 |
thingee | cdent: thank you! | 21:31 |
cdent | (as the guy who comes here) | 21:31 |
gordc | so with the 'big-tent' there are "who knows how many" liasons/ptls. i'm not sure how successful 'all you people look at this' approach is. | 21:31 |
fungi | thingee: sounds great | 21:32 |
elmiko | i'd like to talk with our ptl (sahara), but i'm certainly up for liasing on sahara's behalf | 21:32 |
thingee | elmiko: wonderful | 21:32 |
dhellmann | gordc : it doesn't have to be everyone, but it needs to be more people than are reviewing them now | 21:33 |
gordc | i would think being cross project, the scope of specs requires quite a detail knowledge of not just one's own project but others | 21:33 |
nikhil | thingee: what tag should we expect on the subject? | 21:33 |
ttx | thingee: we could mention the open specs in the weekly dev digest too, I guess | 21:33 |
thingee | yeah ideally I will mention it on the list and then start bugging individual project meetings to announce it who aren't having someone from their team attend this meeting | 21:33 |
fungi | gordc: i think it reflects on those projects well or poorly depending on how involved they get in the cross-project specs discussions and implementations | 21:33 |
lifeless | +1 ttx | 21:33 |
thingee | ttx: I did that once or twice | 21:33 |
dhellmann | fungi : ++ | 21:33 |
thingee | ttx: I will continue though :) | 21:33 |
gordc | fungi: well there's also resource constaints | 21:34 |
gordc | not all projects have 100s of devs like nova. | 21:34 |
thingee | nikhil: cross-project | 21:34 |
lifeless | bandwidth... | 21:34 |
rockyg | gordc, if you or the project liaison covers your project's view and every project comments, then you don't have to worry about knowing other projects | 21:34 |
nikhil | thx | 21:34 |
ttx | gordc: the work for a smaller project is also likely to be more reasonable, but I see your point | 21:35 |
thingee | gordc: yeah so I have a bullet that addresses that... I think for implementing, that's a different story. But it needs to be prioritized by the liaison bring it to the groups attention and ptl | 21:35 |
fungi | gordc: of course, resource-constrained projects already have plenty of things to cause them strife. i expect projects who can't keep up with their own work are likely to struggle with following cross-project specs too | 21:35 |
gordc | rockyg: i guess my assumption is that there will be specs that cannot be silo'd to just a single project view. maybe a future concern | 21:35 |
annegentle | fungi: ++ | 21:35 |
thingee | ok well again please comment on the review with suggestions. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/266072/3 | 21:36 |
lifeless | fungi: does anyone truely keep up with their own work ? | 21:36 |
rockyg | also, if all (most) projects comment and there are conflicting views, that's the start of an important discussion for all the involved projects | 21:36 |
thingee | I'd like to get this going start next week with getting initial liaisons so we can help those work on specs to bring attention | 21:36 |
gordc | thingee: i'll comment there. i'm just being negative :) | 21:36 |
* lifeless goes off the deep philosophical end | 21:37 | |
rockyg | lifeless, ++ | 21:37 |
fungi | lifeless: probably not, some just get closer than others | 21:37 |
elmiko | lifeless: lol, so true... | 21:37 |
thingee | and so projects are aware of what's going on from a cross-project perspective | 21:37 |
gordc | rockyg: yeah, that's another concern. how to get agreement with so many possibel voices... | 21:37 |
thingee | anything else before we move onto the next topic? | 21:37 |
gordc | nothing from me | 21:37 |
fungi | i guess my point was that projects will prioritize cross-project spec work differently, so it's not necessary that you prioritize it above, say, getting your project working in the first place | 21:38 |
annegentle | thingee: ttx: have you considered including the product working group or other working groups or asking them to review these? | 21:38 |
thingee | annegentle: absolutely. I work with the product working group, so this sort of plays into their goals as well | 21:38 |
ttx | annegentle: anyone can review these, and I think thingee has started more actively reaching out | 21:38 |
annegentle | thingee: ttx: ok cool | 21:39 |
annegentle | esp thinking of the themes and getting Carol involved | 21:39 |
annegentle | really, I feel like we need to spread the workload | 21:39 |
thingee | carol is going to be out for a bit | 21:39 |
annegentle | and perspective | 21:39 |
thingee | #topic open discussion | 21:39 |
annegentle | like yummy peanut butter | 21:39 |
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:39 | |
thingee | announcement | 21:40 |
thingee | The OpenStack Mentoring program sponsored by the women of openstack is looking for mentors! | 21:40 |
dims | oslo has decided to adopt the os-profiler project | 21:40 |
thingee | we need people with experience and we're looking at doing a workshop a day before the summit | 21:40 |
ttx | thingee: following the tc meeting it appears we'll have to document how the tc members are supposed to interact with cross project specs | 21:41 |
thingee | experience with contributing through translations, docs, code | 21:41 |
smcginnis | thingee: Is there an etherpad or something with more details? | 21:41 |
thingee | signup https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1YQITea0ygvusZAeRdR6jL1VUfaNcZTCr2UqHTFSsxR4/viewform?c=0&w=1 | 21:41 |
smcginnis | thingee: Thanks! | 21:41 |
rockyg | dims, ++ | 21:41 |
thingee | Hopefully we can dedicate sometime before the summit to helping our community grow healthy | 21:42 |
elmiko | +1 | 21:42 |
thingee | dims: oh interesting, I think I missed that on the ML | 21:42 |
rockyg | exercises for people huddled on the floor with their laptops ??? | 21:42 |
* elmiko chuckles | 21:43 | |
docaedo | hopefully I'm not dense, but looking for mentors of all genders right (and it's just *sponsored* by Women of OpenStack) right? | 21:43 |
thingee | if people want more information on the OpenStack mentoring program please contact ekhugen on #openstack-women | 21:43 |
annegentle | docaedo: oh yes, mentors can be anyone | 21:43 |
thingee | docaedo: good question, yes all genders are welcome! | 21:43 |
nikhil | annegentle: what's the scope of this program? | 21:43 |
nikhil | is this different from official internship? | 21:44 |
thingee | please spread the word too if you can't participate. Every bit helps | 21:44 |
annegentle | nikhil: this isn't Outreachy, this is new, right thingee? | 21:44 |
annegentle | nikhil: career mentoring or technical mentoring | 21:44 |
nikhil | gotcha | 21:44 |
dims | thingee : spec merged just today, will drop a note on ML | 21:44 |
thingee | correct this is different from outreachy. It has no set schedule like outreachy, and it's a way to have a pool of mentors accessible to people who need help contributing | 21:45 |
thingee | aside from the scheduled in person mentoring at the summit ;) | 21:45 |
fungi | so not funded internships, more a mechanism for connecting people who want to learn with people who want to help them? | 21:45 |
thingee | fungi: yes | 21:45 |
thingee | fungi: thank you | 21:46 |
thingee | anything else? | 21:46 |
nikhil | excellent | 21:46 |
thingee | ok, comment on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/266072/3 now and thanks everyone! | 21:46 |
nikhil | I have one | 21:47 |
thingee | yay cross-project \o/ | 21:47 |
* thingee stops | 21:47 | |
nikhil | there's a very likely "openstack hackathon" global event happening in the week of feb 29 | 21:47 |
thingee | nikhil: yes | 21:47 |
elmiko | ooh, neat | 21:47 |
annegentle | nikhil: cool! | 21:47 |
* thingee every week is a hackathon | 21:47 | |
nikhil | currently planned in east & west coast US, one location in UK and one in China | 21:47 |
rockyg | Yeah. It's an outgrowth of the China Hackathon. It's for bug fixes | 21:47 |
nikhil | I am working on one location in India | 21:48 |
rockyg | nikhil, ++ | 21:48 |
thingee | link details? | 21:48 |
nikhil | I need help getting estimate of interest from people | 21:48 |
nikhil | We are coming up with it as logistical bottlenecks are being solved | 21:48 |
rockyg | It's likely Huawei will host in SF Bay area | 21:48 |
nikhil | Seemed like a good place to declare | 21:49 |
annegentle | rockyg: nice | 21:49 |
jroll | there's a texas location too | 21:49 |
jroll | afaik | 21:49 |
rockyg | So, we'll need lots of cores ready to review the fixes...and others | 21:49 |
annegentle | yeah get the dates and locations published as soon as you can | 21:50 |
rockyg | Maybe PTLs and cores could work up the list of bugs they want folks to focus on? | 21:50 |
bknudson_ | hopefully the participants will also do reviews | 21:50 |
thingee | nikhil: I think it would be good if there it's a signup form/etherpad and mention on the ML | 21:50 |
thingee | I'm just now hearing about this anyways :) | 21:50 |
nikhil | thingee: surely, I will try to get one before next mtg | 21:50 |
rockyg | Definitely. Part of this is so folks with different languages can do most of the discussion in their own languages. | 21:50 |
thingee | ok thanks everyone! | 21:51 |
nikhil | I would like to work with the mentoring group to get people involved in this | 21:51 |
thingee | #endmeeting | 21:51 |
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:51 | |
openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 12 21:51:23 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:51 |
openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2016/crossproject.2016-01-12-21.02.html | 21:51 |
openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2016/crossproject.2016-01-12-21.02.txt | 21:51 |
nikhil | thanks | 21:51 |
openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2016/crossproject.2016-01-12-21.02.log.html | 21:51 |
elmiko | thanks thingee | 21:51 |
jroll | thanks thingee | 21:51 |
thingee | nikhil: that would be awesome. I'm sure the organizers can work with you | 21:51 |
rockyg | Thanks! | 21:51 |
nikhil | ++ | 21:51 |
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ttx | thingee: this channel doesn't have enough people subscribed to it yet, we should make more noise | 21:53 |
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* thingee plays dubstep | 21:53 | |
thingee | there's your noise | 21:54 |
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ttx | the art of noise | 21:54 |
thingee | lol I knew diablo_rojo would comment | 21:54 |
diablo_rojo | thingee: Going to another the day I get back from the Cinder meetup lol | 21:54 |
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