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| hongbin | feisky: apuimedo dims ready for the meeting? | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| apuimedo | I am | 14:00 |
| hongbin | jgriffith: ^^ | 14:01 |
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| hongbin | apuimedo: pause for a second to wait for other people | 14:02 |
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| feisky | š | 14:02 |
| apuimedo | very well | 14:02 |
| hongbin | ok, then let's get started | 14:02 |
| hongbin | #startmeeting fuxi_stackube_k8s_storage | 14:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 23 14:02:50 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: fuxi_stackube_k8s_storage)" | 14:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'fuxi_stackube_k8s_storage' | 14:02 |
| hongbin | #topic Roll Call | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: fuxi_stackube_k8s_storage)" | 14:02 | |
| dims | o/ (listening mostly) | 14:03 |
| hongbin | Hongbin Lu | 14:03 |
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| hongbin | #topic Introduction | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduction (Meeting topic: fuxi_stackube_k8s_storage)" | 14:04 | |
| hongbin | Hi all | 14:04 |
| apuimedo | Hi | 14:04 |
| feisky | hi | 14:04 |
| hongbin | I would get started to do a brief introduction | 14:04 |
| zhonghuali | hi | 14:04 |
| zengche | hello | 14:05 |
| hongbin | The purpose of this meeting is to let everyone who interest in k8s storage integration to get together to figure out a development plan | 14:05 |
| apuimedo | sounds good | 14:05 |
| hongbin | This effort was started by fuxi, then we have a couple of people who expressed interest to work on this area | 14:05 |
| hongbin | This includes another team: stackube, and feisky is hte initialior | 14:06 |
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| hongbin | Therefore, I proposed to schedule a meeting to let all of us to discuss | 14:06 |
| hongbin | Ideally, we could leverage this meeting to understand what are the interests of each other, and figure out a common ground to work on this area | 14:07 |
| hongbin | That is all from my side | 14:07 |
| hongbin | apuimedo: feisky you have anything to add? | 14:07 |
| zengche | hongbin:is the purpose that develop a plugin to supply storage offered by openstack for k8s? | 14:07 |
| apuimedo | no. You described the goals very well | 14:07 |
| feisky | no | 14:08 |
| apuimedo | hongbin: it would be nice if you could list the current k8s goals of fuxi-k8s | 14:08 |
| apuimedo | and then feisky could do the same | 14:08 |
| apuimedo | so we can figure out common ground | 14:08 |
| hongbin | apuimedo: sure | 14:08 |
| hongbin | #link https://docs.openstack.org/developer/kuryr-kubernetes/specs/pike/fuxi_kubernetes.html the proposal | 14:08 |
| hongbin | The idea is to develop two components: the volume provisioner and the flexvolume plugin | 14:09 |
| hongbin | The volume provisioner is to listen to k8s api for pvc, and create pv and cinder/manila volume in occurance of event | 14:09 |
| hongbin | The flexvolume plugin is for kubelet to conecting to cinder/manila volume | 14:09 |
| hongbin | That is a brief summarize of hte design spec from fuxi | 14:10 |
| hongbin | I believe there are some room to modify the design if necessary | 14:10 |
| hongbin | We could discuss it based on feedback | 14:10 |
| feisky | cool. let me make an introduction of stackube | 14:10 |
| feisky | stackube aims to provide a kubernetes cluster with openstack components with both soft and hard multi-tenancy. | 14:11 |
| feisky | It support all k8s volumes , including flex volumes | 14:12 |
| feisky | but one main issue is that k8s mounts the volume on the host regardless of runtime | 14:12 |
| feisky | e.g. for hypervisors, pass the volume to VM has much more performance | 14:13 |
| feisky | that is one issue we should resolve in stackube | 14:14 |
| feisky | And I wonder whether fuxi could help on this issue | 14:14 |
| hongbin | feisky: could you clarify "k8s mounts volume on the host regardless of runtime" | 14:15 |
| feisky | yep | 14:15 |
| feisky | for all volumes (including flex), kubelet will attach it to the host first and then mount the volume to a host path | 14:16 |
| feisky | then kubelet set container volumes based on this mountpoint | 14:16 |
| feisky | the process is independent of container runtime | 14:17 |
| hongbin | that is true | 14:17 |
| hongbin | hyper will do something that is differently? | 14:17 |
| jgriffith | feisky stack cube? Link? | 14:17 |
| feisky | https://github.com/openstack/stackube | 14:18 |
| jgriffith | IMO K8ās distort/model should be completely independent | 14:18 |
| jgriffith | I think thereās more value in providing an independent plugin that only cares about upstream k8ās integration | 14:18 |
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| jgriffith | If that makes sense? | 14:18 |
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| apuimedo | distort/model? | 14:19 |
| jgriffith | Distribution/modelā¦ sorry typo | 14:19 |
| apuimedo | ah | 14:19 |
| jgriffith | :) | 14:19 |
| jgriffith | Silly auto correct | 14:19 |
| apuimedo | :-) | 14:20 |
| jgriffith | So think libstorageā¦. Thereās no reason Cinder shouldnāt actually be ālibstorageā just needs the integration layer from Fuxi to make that work | 14:21 |
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| jgriffith | Not sure if anybody agrees, or maybe not sure what Iām referring to there? | 14:22 |
| zengche | jgriffith:sorry, what will independent plugin do? | 14:22 |
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| hongbin | jgriffith: yes, i think the process of mounting volumes to host should be all the same, I try to figure out how hyper will do it differently | 14:23 |
| jgriffith | zengche so the idea IMO would be that you have a K8ās deploymentā¦ deploy Cinderā¦ install Fujiā¦ consume cinder from fuxi | 14:23 |
| jgriffith | err.. K8ās | 14:23 |
| jgriffith | And I shouldnāt care what K8ās deployment youāre using | 14:23 |
| jgriffith | Ideally the Fuxi code runs in a pod as well | 14:23 |
| apuimedo | hongbin: for hyper runtime it would probably be mounted to qemu, wouldn't it feisky ? | 14:23 |
| feisky | qpuimedo: that's prefered way | 14:24 |
| jgriffith | apuimedo hongbin so the other thing is that if youāre using that model you can use the open stack provider in K8ās then no? | 14:24 |
| apuimedo | jgriffith: it's not pods running on VMs, the "VMs" are the pods | 14:25 |
| hongbin | jgriffith: i am not faimilar with k8s cloud provider, dims , you can comment on that? | 14:25 |
| apuimedo | so I'm doubtful that would work with hyper runtime | 14:25 |
| jgriffith | apuimedo yeah, I donāt know anything about hyper | 14:26 |
| dims | cloud provider assumes that the volume will be attached to something that was started by Nova | 14:26 |
| feisky | as I said, k8s doesn't care about runtime now, so it's impossible to mount the volume to hyperVM now | 14:27 |
| apuimedo | jgriffith: simplifying. It is a qemu-kvm accelerated VM managed by the hyper runtime that only runs the pod | 14:27 |
| feisky | and by the way, stackube doesn't require a cloud provider | 14:27 |
| feisky | qpuimedo: right. the vm is managed by hyperd | 14:27 |
| jgriffith | feisky sure, not pretending to know about those two products | 14:28 |
| apuimedo | feisky: I'm glad the effort I put into reading the code two years ago keeps fresh in my mind | 14:28 |
| hongbin | feisky: it sounds like hyper would like to develop your own volume plugin instead of using flexvolume? | 14:28 |
| apuimedo | :P | 14:29 |
| jgriffith | hongbin +1 | 14:29 |
| feisky | hongbin: no, we will still confirm to kubernetes volume plugin. | 14:30 |
| hongbin | feisky: then, you would like to develop a custom hyper flexvolume plugin for hyper? | 14:30 |
| feisky | but at now, since it is impossible, we will extract volume metadata and pass it to runtime directly | 14:30 |
| hongbin | feisky: could you elaborate that? | 14:31 |
| feisky | it's not a flex plugin | 14:31 |
| feisky | e.g. we could take the info via annotations | 14:31 |
| apuimedo | feisky: that's the best approach | 14:31 |
| feisky | and CRI already support set annotations for runtimes | 14:31 |
| jgriffith | feisky do you have a link to this hyper project that youāre referring to? | 14:32 |
| feisky | jgriffith: do you mean stackube link? | 14:32 |
| feisky | oh, sorry, hyper is here https://github.com/hyperhq/hyperd | 14:33 |
| jgriffith | feisky :). thanks | 14:33 |
| zengche | feisky:what's the next when runtime got the volume metadata? does runtime can use volume directly? | 14:33 |
| feisky | and we have a runtime in kubernetes: https://github.com/kubernetes/frakti | 14:33 |
| feisky | zengche: yep, runtime will set the volume to VM | 14:34 |
| zengche | feisky:got it. it is better if you five me more details. thanks. | 14:34 |
| zengche | feisky:s/five/give | 14:35 |
| feisky | zengche: please take an eye on the stackube project, will make the design docs later | 14:35 |
| feisky | s/make/add | 14:35 |
| zhipeng | feisky any timeline on that ? | 14:35 |
| zengche | feisky:ok, i have seen your project. | 14:35 |
| jgriffith | I think it might be good to define and narrow scope here a bit | 14:36 |
| jgriffith | Thereās a lot going on in this conversation | 14:36 |
| apuimedo | jgriffith: +1 | 14:36 |
| jgriffith | Fuxi currently provides a way to consume Cinder from Dockerā¦ thatās great | 14:36 |
| jgriffith | IIRC it also allows either non-nova or nova configurations | 14:37 |
| feisky | jgriffith: sorry, let's focus on the volume itself | 14:37 |
| hongbin | jgriffith: yes, that is correct | 14:37 |
| jgriffith | hongbin correct me if Iām wrong on any of this? | 14:37 |
| jgriffith | hongbin :) | 14:37 |
| jgriffith | Soā¦ what I wanted to propose was two things: | 14:37 |
| jgriffith | 1. Convert the existing Fuxi python code to golang | 14:38 |
| jgriffith | 2. Create a kubernetes integration | 14:38 |
| hongbin | ++ | 14:38 |
| zhonghuali | jgriffith: +1 | 14:38 |
| jgriffith | Those two things are a lot of work, and #2 has a lot of details | 14:38 |
| feisky | hongbin: jgriffith: stackube will support fuxi intrinsically (stackube support all existing kubernetes volumes) | 14:39 |
| hongbin | jgriffith: for #1, i guess we need to port os-brick to golang? | 14:39 |
| hongbin | feisky: ack | 14:39 |
| jgriffith | hongbin did a good job of outlining the use of flex volume with a K8 watcher/listener for provisioning | 14:39 |
| smcginnis | That will be a lot of work: https://governance.openstack.org/tc/resolutions/20170329-golang-use-case.html | 14:40 |
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| jgriffith | Keep in mind that flexvol will (hopefully soon) eventually have the ability to do provisioning as well so the listener would be temporary | 14:40 |
| jgriffith | smcginnis indeed :) | 14:40 |
| hongbin | i see | 14:40 |
| jgriffith | But dims has blazed a trail for us that I think will help | 14:40 |
| smcginnis | jgriffith: +1 I would love to see some more movement on the golang front. | 14:41 |
| jgriffith | Thereās one other aspect of this as wellā¦. | 14:41 |
| apuimedo | smcginnis: you mean that at some point there will not be a need for watching the k8s volume resources? | 14:41 |
| jgriffith | dims showed me some work that splits cinder in the existing cloud provider in K8ās, so it may be possible to use that plugin with or without nova | 14:42 |
| jgriffith | In which case you get dynamic provisioning and attach etc | 14:42 |
| jgriffith | This is where things get interesting IMO, but itās also why I say thereās a LOT of work to be done | 14:42 |
| smcginnis | apuimedo: No, just pointing out rewriting in go is more than just taking the existing code and redoing it in another language. | 14:43 |
| jgriffith | And if we can all agree as a team and work on it together it could be pretty cool | 14:43 |
| jgriffith | Luckily the go part of Fuxi we have an example we can use: https://github.com/j-griffith/cinder-docker-driver | 14:44 |
| jgriffith | But we need to decide on things like gophercloud vs openstack-golang... | 14:44 |
| hongbin | #link https://github.com/j-griffith/cinder-docker-driver | 14:44 |
| jgriffith | And most of all infra testing | 14:44 |
| apuimedo | does everybody agree to have the docker volume driver as a base (like j-griffith/cinder-docker-driver and openstack/fuxi do)? | 14:45 |
| dims | jgriffith : use gophercloud, let's settle on that | 14:45 |
| hongbin | i have no problem fo rthat | 14:45 |
| apuimedo | just mentioning cause it feels very runtime specific | 14:45 |
| jgriffith | dims works for me | 14:45 |
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| jgriffith | apuimedo how so? | 14:45 |
| apuimedo | they are docker volume API drivers | 14:46 |
| apuimedo | so I won't expect them to work with rkt/hyper | 14:46 |
| jgriffith | apuimedo ahh.. got ya | 14:46 |
| jgriffith | apuimedo so thatās a fair point, but there are two aspect to Fuxi and that driver layer | 14:46 |
| apuimedo | I would like to separate the consolidation of the docker driver | 14:47 |
| jgriffith | apuimedo yeah, that might work. | 14:47 |
| apuimedo | and the effort on having k8s cinder/manila support for baremetal/pod-in-vm | 14:47 |
| jgriffith | apuimedo What I was hoping to do is have a single package/sdk to talk to Cinder and issue the calls | 14:47 |
| jgriffith | Thatās all | 14:47 |
| apuimedo | jgriffith: that's what fuxi-k8s proposes for now. And kuryr accepted it | 14:48 |
| apuimedo | I just want to make sure that we are fine with the runtime lock-in it brings | 14:48 |
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| jgriffith | apuimedo I think there are ways to address that | 14:48 |
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| jgriffith | I agree with you that Iād love to see support for things like rkt | 14:48 |
| hongbin | we could modify the spec to make it runtime agnostic in the future | 14:49 |
| apuimedo | jgriffith: sure, you can have drivers both in the k8s watcher and in the flexvolume | 14:49 |
| apuimedo | for different runtimes | 14:49 |
| jgriffith | hongbin apuimedo we could also layer packages to make it flexible enough | 14:49 |
| apuimedo | but we need to scope and define the steps | 14:49 |
| hongbin | jgriffith: sounds reasonable | 14:50 |
| apuimedo | jgriffith: kuryr-k8s already supports drivers, so that a same event handler could talk to a docker volume api or to something else | 14:50 |
| jgriffith | hongbin apuimedo so maybe a few of us could work on defining this a bit over the next week and we can reconvene next week to see what people like/dislike etc? | 14:50 |
| apuimedo | (although, tbh, I think it is cleaner that the k8s watcher talks directly to cinder and manila without going via the docker volume api) | 14:50 |
| apuimedo | for the flexvolume part, talking to the docker volume API or another driver looks good though | 14:51 |
| jgriffith | apuimedo I donāt disagree with thatā¦ but the existing cinderclient is not a great fit for this IMO | 14:51 |
| apuimedo | jgriffith: how so? | 14:51 |
| jgriffith | Thatās where the desire for another layer comes into play | 14:51 |
| apuimedo | you mean python-cinderclient? | 14:51 |
| jgriffith | apuimedo yes | 14:51 |
| apuimedo | jgriffith: does your docker driver use plain HTTP requests or does it use gophercloud? | 14:52 |
| jgriffith | apuimedo to be clear, thatās the base layer regardlessā¦ but thereās extra logic youāre likely going to want on top of it | 14:52 |
| jgriffith | apuimedo gopher cloudā¦. So just goes down to cinderclient | 14:53 |
| apuimedo | jgriffith: ok | 14:53 |
| apuimedo | Are we going to use the kuryr-k8s watcher (python) or are we going to make a new one in golang? | 14:53 |
| apuimedo | for the flexvolume and docker driver there seems to be a big agreement to move it to golang | 14:54 |
| jgriffith | apuimedo I donāt know :). I guess if thereās a watcher that works thereās no good reason to reinvent one | 14:54 |
| hongbin | +1 | 14:54 |
| jgriffith | But I donāt know anything about it Iām afraid :( | 14:54 |
| apuimedo | jgriffith: it simply allows you to have pluggable handlers for K8s API objects | 14:55 |
| apuimedo | and in the handlers you do whatever you like | 14:55 |
| jgriffith | Cool, Iāll check it out | 14:56 |
| apuimedo | It will probably move to use the new kubernetes python client | 14:56 |
| apuimedo | #link https://github.com/openstack/kuryr-kubernetes | 14:56 |
| hongbin | ok, we are almost run out of time | 14:56 |
| hongbin | in the last 4 minutes, could we briefly summarize hte next step? | 14:57 |
| apuimedo | jgriffith: hongbin: Obviously, when we wanted to start doing the watcher, we would have had a much easier time in Golang, since then we could use k8s official golang client, but at the time the TC was still against golang | 14:57 |
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| hongbin | apuimedo: yes, in addition, converting everything to goland is a lot of work :) | 14:58 |
| dims | apuimedo : jgriffith : folks, sent an email out on gophercloud (and stop the golang client thingy) http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-May/117284.html | 14:58 |
| apuimedo | fuxi currently is at 0.1.0 release. I wonder if it is possible that the next step is to move it to golang taking in code from jgriffith with the API and options it currently exposes | 14:58 |
| apuimedo | hongbin: would you agree to that? | 14:59 |
| hongbin | apuimedo: yes, we can do that, i would try to figure out how to do it step-by-step | 14:59 |
| apuimedo | dims will probably be able to help on how to do that infra wise | 15:00 |
| hongbin | apuimedo: possibly, we would convert part of hte code as flexvolume plugin first | 15:00 |
| dims | yep, count me in | 15:00 |
| apuimedo | hongbin: where should the flexvolume adapter live? In openstack/fuxi ? | 15:01 |
| hongbin | apuimedo: i don't have specific idea for now, we could discuss it later | 15:01 |
| hongbin | ok, overflow on openstack-kuryr channel | 15:02 |
| hongbin | #endmeeting | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 23 15:02:23 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuxi_stackube_k8s_storage/2017/fuxi_stackube_k8s_storage.2017-05-23-14.02.html | 15:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuxi_stackube_k8s_storage/2017/fuxi_stackube_k8s_storage.2017-05-23-14.02.txt | 15:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuxi_stackube_k8s_storage/2017/fuxi_stackube_k8s_storage.2017-05-23-14.02.log.html | 15:02 |
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