Tuesday, 2010-09-07

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dendrobateswe will give people a few minutes to show up.21:01
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dendrobatesmight be smaller turnout, because I did not get around to sending an email reminder.21:01
adjohnMorning from Japan :)21:02
littleideaI think I just bitched up the wiki. Can someone who knows how to use it revert what I just did to the HelpContents :)21:02
dendrobateslittleidea: I'll do it after the meeting21:03
dendrobatesWow, thanks for showing up, Japan21:04
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dendrobatesI am going to suggest a later time for the next meeting, to help you guys and punish the Europeans21:04
dendrobatesok let's go21:05
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep  7 21:05:12 2010 UTC.  The chair is dendrobates. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:05
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.21:05
dendrobatesThank you for coming everyone.21:05
dendrobatesWe had a meeting only a few days ago, ut I wanted to have this one, since we extended the blueprint deadline. The agenda is on the wiki, I encourage other to add items if there are things they want to discuss.21:05
dendrobates#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings21:05
dendrobates#topic blueprints21:05
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dendrobatesThe current list of Blueprints targeted for Austin are here:21:06
dendrobates#link https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/nova/austin21:06
dendrobatesThis does not include swift, but they only have a couple.21:06
dendrobatesIf your blueprint is not listed but you think it should be, please contact me ASAP21:06
dendrobatesThere is one blueprint that is suggesting some major networking changes: Extend the network control API21:07
dendrobates#link https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/austin-extend-network-model21:07
adjohnThat is from over here and @romain_lenglet21:07
dendrobatesI've asked for feedback from the openstack-core team.21:07
dendrobatesadjohn: do you guys have any code yet?21:08
littleideadendrobates: I added this one https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/austin-stats-utilization21:08
dendrobateslittleidea: must have just missed it.  I'll look at it.21:08
adjohn@dendrobates coming soon21:09
littleideaI just added it. I was trying to make a spec, but instead I messed up the wiki.21:09
dendrobatesadjohn: have you seen the other networking changes that vishy made?21:09
dendrobatesadjohn: I want to be sure you are working with the newest code.21:10
dendrobatesDoes anyone have any questions about austin-extend-network-model, or should we move it to the mailing list?21:11
romain_lengletdendrobates: ok, we'll start from this branch21:11
dendrobatesadjohn: I recommend pushing code ASAP, even if is is just a skeleton21:11
dendrobatesthat will help others get an idea of your changes.21:11
adjohndendrobates: got it21:11
dendrobatessoren: did you see the question abour your austin-xen blueprint?21:12
sorendendrobates: I didn't, no.21:12
dendrobatesyou added ewanmellor's branches21:12
sorenI.... did?21:13
dendrobatesso I was not sure if it was for xenserver or all xen21:13
dendrobateswell they were there, unless I am crazy21:13
sorenI really don't think I did.21:13
sorenEwan must have done that himself.21:13
ewanmellorI was confused too ;-)21:13
ewanmellorAnyway, I made an austin-xenapi, just to avoid any further confusion.21:14
dendrobatesso you meant that to be opensourc xen, right?21:14
ewanmellorWe can use austin-xen for non-XenServer Xen support, if that's what you intend.21:14
sorendendrobates: Me? Yes.21:14
dendrobatesok, I'll remove the branches from it.21:14
ewanmellorsoren: Do you intend to support other Xen's through libvirt, or some other means?21:14
sorenewanmellor: libvirt.21:15
sorenThat's how I roll.21:15
ewanmellorOK, so should we call this blueprint austin-xen-libvirt or something, to distinguish it from austin-xenapi?21:15
dendrobatesI'll fix it up21:16
dendrobatessoren: I deferred your puppet blueprint21:16
dendrobatesI don't believe there is any way in hell you could finish every bp you submitted21:16
sorendendrobates: I can tell.21:16
sorendendrobates: I've got a plan :)21:16
sorendendrobates: But no worries.21:17
sorendendrobates: I'll do it while you're not looking.21:17
ewanmellorsoren: Is there anything even to do?  Doesn't it "just work" if you use libvirt today?21:17
sorenewanmellor: It's really meant as a "make sure that it already works" sort of blueprint.21:17
dendrobatesok, if you have a plan fine, but the other things are more critical, and I know you and your "plans" pretty well.21:17
sorenewanmellor: I do think, though, that it needs a tiny, tiny bit of template tweaking.21:17
sorendendrobates: Gotcha.21:18
ewanmellorsoren: OK, that makes sense.21:18
dendrobatesewanmellor: all the work may be in ubuntu's version of libvirt21:18
sorenUbuntu doesn't even have a dom0.21:18
soren(Clever as they are)21:19
dendrobatessoren: true, but that doesn;t stop rackspace from using it with xen21:19
sorenBut yeah, there might be libvirt work involved. That's fine.21:19
sorendendrobates: Good point.21:19
dendrobatessoren: zul has agreed to hepl if you need it.21:19
* soren hugs zul21:19
dendrobatesany other blueprint questions or discussions people want to have?21:20
ewanmellorWhat's the plan with Redis?21:20
ewanmellorWill we still have Redis in Austin?21:20
gundlachafaik, yes -- i rely on it to get the new API working21:20
dendrobatesafaik, yes21:20
xtoddx~vishvananda/nova/orm_deux should be live21:21
xtoddxvishy, care to chime in?21:21
gundlachand don't plan on figuring anything else out by october :)21:21
dendrobatesyeah, but for all practical purposes, Redis will still be required this release21:21
dendrobatesright vishy?21:21
ewanmellorDo we expect to remove it soon?21:21
* soren didn't realise the orm_deux branch was a Redisectomy?21:22
dendrobatesit is not, it is an abstraction21:22
sorenOk, that's what I thought.21:22
xtoddxright, but no redis backend has been written yet, only sqlalchemy21:22
xtoddxgundlach will have to re-jigger all the stuff that used nova.compute.model to use nova.db, regardless21:23
dendrobateseven if it hits, I don;t think everything can be reworked in time,  Austin+1 i'd say.21:23
xtoddxwhat day is the freeze?21:23
sorenSep 30.21:24
* soren will never get used to middle-endian dates.21:24
ewanmellorWhat's the name of Austin + 1?21:24
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dendrobatesewanmellor: probably san antonio21:25
ewanmellorIs Austin going to be OpenStack 1.0?21:25
* soren was hoping for something beginning with 'b'21:25
vishysorry guys was afk21:25
edayxtoddx, vishy: don't you plan on having the orm branch land soon? if so, that means it's going to be austin21:25
gundlachdendrobates: oh, come, we *surely* must do alphabetical :)21:25
dendrobatesgundlach: sorry out of my hands21:25
vishywould be great if the orm branch landed soon21:25
sorenewanmellor: Probably Nova 1.0, but Swift already had a 1.0.21:26
zuldudes name it after south park characters :)21:26
vishyand with that branch the only thing requiring redis is fake ldap21:26
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edayvishy: ok, so for most purposes, redis will be gone in austin21:26
xtoddxBangs, TX21:26
ewanmellorxtoddx: I bet she does!21:26
dendrobatesvishy: but there are other branches out there that are using redis, like gundlach's21:26
gundlachfyi i'm using the central redis store to map RS API image ids to Glance image URLs21:26
vishyeday: yes, if someone wants to rewrite fakelap using mysql then we could ditch it completely21:27
gundlachif someone else can lend a hand turning that into a local store for the API cluster to use, i'm fine with that21:27
vishydedrobates: I wasn't aware that gundlach was using redis21:27
gundlachvishy: i kind of fell into it when i realized we'd need a persistent mapping for IDs and redis was lying around.21:27
dendrobatesvishy: when do you plan on this being merged?21:27
edayI think we need to land the ORM branch sooner than later, before merge conflicts become even more of a nightmare :)21:27
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xtoddxvish, can we work on landing orm this week?21:28
vishydendrobates: as soon as possible...there will be some inevitable cleanup, i think i may have broken xen a bit21:28
ewanmellordendrobates: I21:28
dendrobatesewanmellor: you21:29
ewanmellordendrobates: (Sorry about that) It make sense to line up version numbers, doesn't it?  Nova and Swift 1.1?21:29
sorenewanmellor: I thought about that, but..21:29
xtoddxewanmellor: #agree21:29
sorenewanmellor: It's not unimaginable that other thigsn will come under the OpenSTack umbrella in the future, and they might already have a versioning scheme in place that conflicts.21:30
ttxnaming scheme kinda forces not to have a development summit twice in the same town ?21:30
sorenewanmellor: So we might be able to do it now, but at some point, it's going to fall apart (or so I hypethicise)21:30
dendrobatesewanmellor: possibly, but I don't want to put a 1.0 release on nova yet.21:30
sorenOr whichever way it's meant to be spelled.21:30
dendrobatesttx: that is the goal21:31
sorenttx: Sounds familiar? :)21:31
vishygundlach: I can help you move stuff over to orm...it is pretty straightforward21:31
dendrobatesok, back on topic21:31
sorendendrobates: You're not shooting for Nova 1.0?21:31
ttxsoren: now you must just pick towns alphabetically :P21:31
vishyi thought it was just alph by town21:31
dendrobatesany more blueprint questions?21:31
vishyboston release next?21:31
gundlachvishy: ty, i'll talk w/ you offline21:31
sorenvishy: Bahamas City.21:32
dendrobatesSan Antonio is in Bexar county if you want to cheat a bit.21:32
dendrobates#topic Release21:32
dendrobatesare there any questions about the Austin release?21:33
soren21:31 < soren> dendrobates: You're not shooting for Nova 1.0?21:33
dendrobatessoren: no21:33
ewanmellorWhat is the license on OpenStack documentation?21:34
ewanmellorWill we (Citrix) be able to repurpose OpenStack docs, for example?21:34
dendrobatesI will be working to get everything documented with our new community tech writer/leader annegentle21:34
dendrobatescreative commons probably21:35
dendrobateswill that work?21:35
ewanmellorI was looking at the Swift Deployment Guide and thinking how good it was and how I'd just want to cut huge sections into a page with a Citrix logo at the top, and ship it ;-)21:35
edaydendrobates: well, there are different CC versions, some allowing for commercial uses21:35
dendrobatesI havent asked anyone in RS legal yet, but we've already used CC for other things.21:35
ewanmellorWould that be morally acceptable to the community?21:35
dendrobatesI would not want to restrict usage in anyway.21:36
notmynamedendrobates: how does that fit with python docs generated from the code which is apache?21:36
dendrobatesdamn good question21:36
dendrobatesI don't know ianal21:36
dendrobates#action find out what license to use for docs]21:37
edaycould just use apache lic for docs too, keep it simple (whether it's code-generated or not)21:37
xtoddxby-sa would maybe be acceptable?21:37
dendrobates#action find out how APL2 affects docs in code21:37
dendrobatesthat might be best, but I am not ready to commit without more knowledge21:38
dendrobatesAnne isn't with us today or she might know21:38
dendrobatesI will find out21:38
dendrobatesare there any questions about the Austin release?21:38
ewanmellor#link http://www.apache.org/dev/apply-license.html21:38
ewanmellorASF policy is to apply the Apache license to docs, too.21:38
dendrobatesewanmellor: thanks21:39
ewanmellor(Not that we have to do the same, just that they've obviously decided that it's legally sensible.)21:39
dendrobatesit does sound easy, I'll take it up with the lawyers21:39
dendrobates#topic OpenStack-Clients project group21:40
dendrobatesThe LP admins created a project group for the clients.  I will be populating it with the client projects and teams asap21:40
dendrobatesit let's them control their own group without our interference, the clients are pretty separate anyway.21:41
notmynamethese are things like the mobile apps and CP?21:41
dendrobatesmostly written by mike mayo21:42
xtoddxdoes clients mean libraries for other languages, or just end-user applications?21:42
dendrobatesi any thing was server side we would still keep it in openstack21:42
dendrobatesend user apps21:42
xtoddxis there a place for client libraries for ruby, java, etc to grow up at?\21:43
notmynamenot sure if this is the time or place, but will there be any level of effort to include 3rd party devs (like CyberDuck or wordpress extensions [in the case of swift])?21:43
littleideawhat about projects to implement different lang bindings?21:43
gundlachxtoddx: the javascript library already exists, as part of the GroundControl browser extension21:43
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dendrobatesWe could put them all under clients, or keep them with openstack if they are tied to our release cycle.21:44
xtoddxits a sign of maturity to have many language bindings, so i think we need to give them a place to exist and be loved21:44
dendrobatesor they could not have anything to do with us officially21:44
xtoddxtying them to our release cycle sounds smart21:44
notmynamethey may be tied to a release cycle (new features, etc), but they probably need a faster release cycle than the main projects21:44
xtoddxwith tiny-number upgrades for any changes specific to their code21:44
littleidea#agreed love <321:45
dendrobatesthen let's do that until someone bitches and reconsider it then.21:45
notmynamedo that == ??21:45
notmynamekeep in openstack?21:45
dendrobateswhat xtoddx said:  keep them with openstack\21:45
notmynameis that openstack/swift-python, openstack/swift-php or openstack/swift/<language>21:46
notmynameor even openstack/bindings/<language>21:46
dendrobatesunder each project21:46
dendrobatesso you only dl what you actually need21:47
dendrobatesI would assume different devs21:47
dendrobateslet's take this to the mailing list.21:48
dendrobatesbut we've resolved to keep them in openstack21:48
dendrobates#topic meeting time21:48
dendrobatesI was thinking about rotating the times21:49
dendrobatesone week we would be very lat for our friends in Japan, and the next early for Europe21:49
dendrobatesI can see no way to please everyone all the time.21:50
littleideaI think rotating times tends to dissipate energy.21:50
dendrobatesI feel that way to, but  have no better suggestions21:50
dendrobateshow does this time work for those in Japan?21:50
romain_lengletit's ok21:51
adjohn6am is a bit early for us I think, and the other guys like NTT may not be able to make it that early it seems?21:51
ddumitriuit's not terrible, but i'm an early riser21:51
littleideamaybe it's always in a certain time the 1st week, a different time 2nd... and when there are more than 4 in a month we double up on one21:51
ddumitriumost of the Japanese are not21:51
sorendendrobates: It's kinda late, but manageable.21:51
littleideabut something that has a predictable cadence21:51
notmynamemeet every 170 hours? (168 hours in a week)21:52
* soren slaps notmyname 21:52
dendrobateslittleidea: so tie the time to the week of the month21:52
littleideadendrobates: just an idea21:52
littleidealooking for a compromise that keeps some regularity21:52
adjohnWe can ask the others we know in the Japan community about the meeting times, but I guess for the 3 of us from Japan here now the current time is ok21:53
dendrobatesI'll send a suggestion to the ML for a perm rotation, but we need to schedule next weeks.21:54
sorenIt's worth noting that if we find a time that is on the edge of being acceptable to someone, that will probably require us to move it every time /anyone/ goes to/from DST.21:54
dendrobatesI think Tuesday is a good day21:54
dendrobatesany disagreement21:54
sorenNope. Tuesday is good.21:54
dendrobatesor wednesday in Japan21:54
adjohnfine here21:54
dendrobatessame time next week or 1 hour later?21:55
dendrobatesfor some reason it is easier for me to ask to stay up till 1am than to expect people up at 6am21:56
ewanmellorThe Englishman here votes for no later than the current time!21:56
dendrobatesThat's one vote21:56
dendrobatesanyone else.21:56
dendrobatesI prefer this time as well21:56
sorenI prefer now over one hour later.21:56
adjohnI prefer this time rather than one our later21:57
sorenThat would put it at midnight for me.21:57
dendrobatesadjohn: really!  wow21:57
romain_lenglet+1 for keeping this time21:57
soren...and I have to get up early Wednesday.21:57
dendrobatesok done21:57
dendrobatessame time next week21:57
adjohndendrobates: one our later means i have to commute to work before the meeting, or some of us will show up late as they have a long commute after the meeting21:57
dendrobatessend anything else to the ml or #openstack21:58
dendrobatesadjohn: I forgot, some people go to work.21:58
dendrobatesI just walk downstairs21:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep  7 21:58:47 2010 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-09-07-21.05.html21:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-09-07-21.05.txt21:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-09-07-21.05.log.html21:58
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dendrobatesthat as not as short as I planned21:59
edaydendrobates: that's a long commute, I just need to cross the hallway :)21:59
xtoddxsome days I don't get out of bed21:59
dendrobatesI am considering that move.21:59
sorenSome days I don't even wake up.21:59
sorenOh, wait.21:59
dendrobatesthe hallway one.21:59
gundlachwhat, you mean i'm *not* dreaming this?21:59
dendrobatesMy wife insists on a guest room22:00
dendrobatesso I am banished to the basement, lest  I taint the guest room.22:00
notmynameget a couch that converts to a bed22:00
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