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| ttx | ~o~ | 20:58 |
|---|---|---|
| zul | yo | 20:59 |
| dendrobates | o/ | 20:59 |
| jk0 | hiya | 20:59 |
| Daviey | o/ | 20:59 |
| spectorclan | hola | 20:59 |
| dabo | o/ | 21:00 |
| adjohn | o/ | 21:00 |
| soren | \o | 21:00 |
| dendrobates | soren: had to be different? | 21:00 |
| ttx | hm, looks like it's Thanksgiving week or something. | 21:00 |
| soren | dendrobates: My mom says it's ok to be different. | 21:01 |
| ttx | let's start | 21:01 |
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| _0x44 | o\ | 21:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 23 21:01:24 2010 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 21:01 |
| ttx | Welcome to our weekly OpenStack team meeting... | 21:01 |
| ttx | Today's agenda is at: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings | 21:01 |
| ttx | #info Remember you can add topics to the agenda by editing the wiki directly... | 21:01 |
| ttx | #topic Actions from previous meeting | 21:01 |
| ttx | * Dissenters to start a blueprint process thread on the MLs | 21:02 |
| ttx | I saw the thread on openstack@lists.l.n, make sure your point is heard there | 21:02 |
| ttx | #topic Current release stage: Implementation | 21:02 |
| ttx | For the curious I documented the release cycle at: | 21:02 |
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| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/ReleaseCycle | 21:03 |
| ttx | Comments/critics welcome :) | 21:03 |
| ttx | So at this point you should be busy writing code, reviewing proposed branches, and pinging dendrobates so that he approves your design :) | 21:03 |
| ttx | Any question on the current stage ? | 21:03 |
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| jk0 | yes | 21:04 |
| jk0 | how are bug reports prioritized over blueprints? | 21:04 |
| ttx | jk0: ask and you may get an answer. | 21:04 |
| jk0 | or vice versa | 21:04 |
| soren | Carefully. | 21:04 |
| jk0 | or to put it another way, should we be focusing more on bugs or blueprints right now? | 21:05 |
| ttx | jk0: the further you go into the cycle, the more focus the bugs should get | 21:05 |
| vishy | late o/ | 21:05 |
| ttx | jk0: it depends on the bug, I'd say. A critical issue should be fixed asap | 21:05 |
| dendrobates | jk0: new feature work is the focus, unless pvo directs different for you | 21:05 |
| jk0 | great, thanks | 21:06 |
| ttx | OK, moving on to a closely related topic... | 21:06 |
| ttx | #topic Release status | 21:06 |
| ttx | dendrobates is working on the bexar blueprint lists, so until we have them I don't really know what we want to track, so I don't really have a release status yet... | 21:06 |
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| dendrobates | ooh, blame me | 21:06 |
| ttx | I will. | 21:06 |
| ttx | #info I'm just a bit worried by the state of bexar-network-service, since it has a few specs depending on it and it looks stuck in Drafting... | 21:07 |
| dendrobates | I have approved most everything, it seems like an unreasonable ammount of work for a release though | 21:07 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/bexar-network-service | 21:07 |
| ttx | dendrobates: approving the design is not the same as taregting to a specific release... especially since we planned for two | 21:08 |
| dendrobates | ttx: I agree it needs to be ironed out early | 21:08 |
| dendrobates | I mean just for bexar | 21:08 |
| ttx | I agree the Nova list seems unrealistic, but I'm new around here :) | 21:08 |
| ttx | dendrobates: should we have a cleaner and more realistic set of targets by next week ? | 21:09 |
| dendrobates | I will be modifying priorities as soon as I get feedback from stakeholders | 21:09 |
| ttx | dendrobates: i've been working on Glance bexar targeting with jaypipes | 21:09 |
| ttx | it's almost clean. | 21:09 |
| dendrobates | a large number of which, have been busy partying in Japan | 21:10 |
| ttx | dendrobates: ok | 21:10 |
| ttx | anything else on that subject ? | 21:10 |
| ttx | #topic Bugs status meaning discussion | 21:11 |
| ttx | OK, so in the same spirit as http://wiki.openstack.org/BlueprintsLifecycle, I need to document the Bugs lifecycle | 21:11 |
| ttx | that is write in a reference doc what each status means to us. | 21:11 |
| ttx | I'd like your input on that, since I have no strong opinion... | 21:11 |
| ttx | In particular what meaning do you want for "Fix Committed" and "Fix Released" ? | 21:12 |
| xtoddx | released = in trunk, committed = in branch proposed for merge ? | 21:12 |
| jk0 | ^ ++ | 21:12 |
| soren | It's worth noting that bugs in "fix committed" are still listed on bugs pages. | 21:12 |
| soren | "fix released" are not. | 21:13 |
| ttx | xtoddx: I like that | 21:13 |
| eday | well, one issue there | 21:13 |
| eday | for non-developers who want something fixed, knowing it's in a release is good | 21:13 |
| soren | So if we go with "in trunk "== "fix released", people may stumble upon a bug in a released version of Openstack, and not find it in the bug lists and report it again. | 21:13 |
| ttx | basically, we say there is more value in seeing a bugfix is proposed for merging, than saying a release contains it | 21:13 |
| eday | I could see users thinking since they got an official release, it's fixed, only to be disappointed | 21:14 |
| soren | Conversely, keeping things at "fix committed" is really noisy to developers trying to get an overview of bugs. | 21:14 |
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| eday | soren: that's a LP bug then, we should be able to filter non-commited bugs, if we cant already :) | 21:14 |
| ttx | I agree, ons solution is more user-oriented (users of releases) while the other is a bit developer-centric | 21:14 |
| soren | eday: I'm sure we can. | 21:14 |
| soren | eday: It's just the default list of open bugs. | 21:15 |
| soren | eday: Bugs in "fix committed" are still "open". | 21:15 |
| soren | Just as a data point, Ubuntu uses "fix released" as soon as a fix has been uploaded t othe archive. | 21:15 |
| eday | soren: yup, and perhaps that's a bug we should file: default lists should not include comitted | 21:15 |
| soren | eday: I'm not sure I'd agree with that. | 21:16 |
| dendrobates | soren: but ubuntu targets bugs to specific releases | 21:16 |
| xtoddx | we're building nightlies right? so landing trunk == releasing that day? | 21:16 |
| ttx | hmm, sounds like this discussion would benefit from a larger forum. I'll kick a thread on the MLs about it | 21:16 |
| soren | xtoddx: We're builing per commit. | 21:16 |
| soren | xtoddx: building, even. | 21:16 |
| soren | xtoddx: So more often than nightly. | 21:16 |
| xtoddx | right, so i stand by landing in trunk == released | 21:16 |
| soren | dendrobates: Not sure where you're going with that. | 21:17 |
| soren | xtoddx: I'm slightly in favour of that as well, but could probably be convinced otherwise. | 21:17 |
| ttx | #action ttx to start a thread about LP bug statuses (in particular FixCommitted meaning) | 21:17 |
| soren | I just mentioned Ubuntu as a data point, not really as an argument either way. | 21:17 |
| dendrobates | they can mark a bug fixed in the current dev release when it is uploaded, but not others | 21:17 |
| soren | dendrobates: Oh, right. So can we. | 21:17 |
| dendrobates | perhaps we should do the same | 21:17 |
| dendrobates | that was my point | 21:18 |
| soren | dendrobates: Gotcha. | 21:18 |
| eday | so, I'm for whatever ubuntu does, because in the past I've found trying to use LP in a way ubuntu does not can be painful | 21:18 |
| eday | but I do have that one concern | 21:18 |
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| dendrobates | Ubuntu is not known for great bug handling | 21:18 |
| zul | heh | 21:18 |
| ttx | soren, xtoddx, dendrobates, eday: I'll rehash the discussion on the ML to make sure everyone can expose his opinion. | 21:18 |
| dendrobates | but they have a bazillion | 21:19 |
| ttx | OK to move on ? | 21:19 |
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| soren | yup | 21:20 |
| ttx | #topic Mailing list consolidation | 21:20 |
| ttx | dendrobates: floor is yours | 21:20 |
| dendrobates | ah yes | 21:20 |
| dendrobates | at the summit we discussed the mailing lists | 21:20 |
| dendrobates | and it was the nearly unanimous opinion that we had too many | 21:21 |
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| soren | Hear hear! | 21:21 |
| dendrobates | We should cull the lists back to one main dev list and and announce list | 21:21 |
| ttx | "too many" as in "too many without a single message posted in them" | 21:21 |
| dendrobates | and revisit it when traffic for any one topic gets high | 21:22 |
| soren | Can we make the announce list an actual announce list and not a medium for distributing news letters? | 21:22 |
| dendrobates | I plan on culling the nova and swift lists, but... | 21:22 |
| spectorclan | soren: i only sent the newsletter once to that list | 21:22 |
| soren | Ok. | 21:22 |
| dendrobates | soren: what announce list are you talking about | 21:22 |
| soren | dendrobates: http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-announce | 21:23 |
| spectorclan | dendrobates: mailing lists from openstack.lists.org | 21:23 |
| soren | An announce list is useful. | 21:23 |
| dendrobates | ok | 21:23 |
| soren | For announcing new releases and such. | 21:23 |
| spectorclan | this holds the complete 4,000+ people who registered on the website during launch of openstack | 21:23 |
| dendrobates | I need to ask LP what to do about the archives | 21:23 |
| soren | dendrobates: You want to consolidate all of {openstack,nova,swift}@lists.launchpad.net into one? | 21:24 |
| dendrobates | yes | 21:24 |
| soren | Sounds great. | 21:24 |
| dendrobates | only openstack would remain | 21:24 |
| soren | Right. | 21:24 |
| ttx | yes, we should divide them when traffic gets too heavy, not before they get any traffic. | 21:24 |
| dendrobates | do you agree that not losing the archives is important? | 21:24 |
| dendrobates | Figuring that out will delay it a little bit. | 21:25 |
| soren | Can't we just disable the mailing list, keeping the archives? | 21:25 |
| xtoddx | dendrobates: i could care less about the archives | 21:25 |
| soren | I should know the answer to that, really. | 21:25 |
| dendrobates | I don't assume anything with LP | 21:25 |
| * soren checks | 21:25 | |
| eday | I think thats the case, I disabled a list once | 21:25 |
| eday | and the archives remained | 21:25 |
| dendrobates | great | 21:25 |
| spectorclan | We should keep the archives | 21:26 |
| dendrobates | are there any objections to dropping nova and swift? | 21:26 |
| ttx | there is /some/ value in keeping the archives... but not enough to prevent us from merging in the near future | 21:26 |
| soren | So what wil happen to the teams? | 21:26 |
| dendrobates | ttx: I just wanted to know how hard to work at it, if it wasn;t easy | 21:27 |
| eday | does glance have it's own too we should include? | 21:27 |
| soren | They exist mostly to have these mailing lists, afaik. | 21:27 |
| dendrobates | the teams will not change | 21:27 |
| xtoddx | you can use teams to request reviews of merge proposals | 21:27 |
| ttx | glance has a list too | 21:27 |
| xtoddx | for that reason alone they are worth keeping | 21:27 |
| ttx | nothing posted to it in the archives. | 21:28 |
| dendrobates | I don;t want to change the teams right now. One painful change at a time please | 21:28 |
| soren | dendrobates: No problem. I was just wondering if they were going to be repurposed. | 21:28 |
| eday | i see no need to change teams | 21:28 |
| ttx | #action dendrobates to merge (or delegate merging of) the MLs, keep the archives | 21:29 |
| dendrobates | OK, I'll send an email to all the list explaining the changes. | 21:29 |
| dendrobates | so please ignore multiple copies | 21:29 |
| ttx | anything more on that subject ? | 21:29 |
| dendrobates | nope | 21:29 |
| ttx | #topic Merge queue backup in nova | 21:30 |
| ttx | eday: floor is yours | 21:30 |
| eday | so, there are two thigns here I wanted to address | 21:30 |
| eday | First, we have a lot of things in the queue, we all need to review more :) | 21:30 |
| eday | If you have an oustanding branch, don't be afriad to ping people in IRC to get a review | 21:31 |
| eday | Second, there are a few branches that are quite stale | 21:31 |
| eday | Some dated in Sept/Oct... what should we do with these? | 21:31 |
| dendrobates | I can purge those | 21:31 |
| eday | They most likely will not merge, but I don't want to lose the work | 21:32 |
| dendrobates | but some, i.e. raw disk images need to be picked up | 21:32 |
| dendrobates | the branches don't go anywhere | 21:32 |
| eday | But if no one pushes them forward, they're as good as gone :) | 21:32 |
| dendrobates | true | 21:32 |
| eday | I guess we should ping the folks who proposed them and see what each status is | 21:33 |
| eday | ie: xtoddx, what is the plan for auth-server? | 21:33 |
| ttx | eday: if they are linked to a blueprint or a bug, they should still be found | 21:33 |
| dendrobates | ttx most of the old ones are not | 21:33 |
| eday | ttx: yup, but I'm just saying we should piss or get off the pot with the merge props :) | 21:33 |
| xtoddx | eday: need to do gap with what has been merged with the osapi to see what else needs to happen | 21:33 |
| xtoddx | eday: the only critical part is a middleware for swift auth | 21:34 |
| eday | xtoddx: ok, so we should probably remove the merge prop until thats ready | 21:35 |
| xtoddx | indeed | 21:35 |
| eday | Ok, that's all, I just wanted to get things moving to keep the merge prop page clean, rather than having to remember which ones are actually valid or not | 21:36 |
| dendrobates | thanks for bringing it up | 21:36 |
| eday | Also, some things are hard to approve becuse there's no way some of us can test certain configs, but that's another issue | 21:36 |
| ttx | So cleaning it up is a recurrent work that everybody with enough power should help with, right | 21:37 |
| ttx | it = the activereviews page(s) | 21:37 |
| dendrobates | right | 21:38 |
| ttx | for the record, I plan to work on a dashboard that should start blinking when we reach some absuive situation | 21:38 |
| ttx | like say, having 2-month old reviews stuck or too many of them unreviewed | 21:39 |
| eday | ttx: cool | 21:39 |
| ttx | that should help us with the overall "health" of the project | 21:39 |
| eday | ttx: and wire that up to tazers for all nova-core | 21:39 |
| ttx | I like that. | 21:39 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:39 |
| ttx | Anything else on your mind ? | 21:40 |
| dendrobates | anyone pissed off about anything :) | 21:40 |
| spectorclan | I will have the new Events Page up later today with all links of slides and videos from Design Summit | 21:41 |
| spectorclan | Watch twitter for announcement | 21:41 |
| eday | any word yet on location for next design summit? | 21:41 |
| xtoddx | it looks like not all the blog posts are going to the wiki sidebar | 21:42 |
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| spectorclan | we are thinking Silicon Valley as 20% of all attendees were from there. | 21:42 |
| spectorclan | I have created a new wiki page to plan the event in the open and will launch that next Monday after the holiday | 21:42 |
| ttx | spectorclan: better beer in Dublin, and starts with a D ;) | 21:42 |
| zykes- | will there be any events in europe ? | 21:42 |
| spectorclan | ttx: we are going to Europe as well in 2011, just not sure when yet but we will be there | 21:42 |
| zul | heh there is more to this world than silicon valley | 21:43 |
| spectorclan | We are planning on LinuxTAG and others | 21:43 |
| zykes- | spectorclan: any in britain / nordics ? | 21:43 |
| spectorclan | We will have a Europe Design Summit in the summer some time, weather is nicer | 21:43 |
| annegentle | xtoddx: re: blog > wiki, what do you mean? | 21:43 |
| spectorclan | Where in Europe is open to this group? | 21:43 |
| xtoddx | sorry, not wiki, but http://openstack.org/ | 21:43 |
| spectorclan | I like Munich | 21:43 |
| eday | spectorclan: rackspace UK offices? | 21:43 |
| xtoddx | annegentle: the right sidebar of "latest" doesn't have all the blog content | 21:44 |
| soren | ttx: Good idea! I have a couple of Guiness vouchers left from my last visit. | 21:44 |
| ttx | spectorclan: Brussles is the most central, due to high speed trains | 21:44 |
| zykes- | Munich, plan it right after CEBIT : p | 21:44 |
| ttx | Brussels | 21:44 |
| ttx | Munich is almost unreachable. | 21:44 |
| spectorclan | as you can see, lots of ideas. Will let you know and we are thinking CEBIT for OpenStack also | 21:44 |
| spectorclan | OK, Brussels?? | 21:44 |
| annegentle | xtoddx: ah yeah I see what you mean. I'll ping Todd Morey on that. Maybe it's highly selective :) | 21:44 |
| ttx | spectorclan: or Paris or Amsterdam, but those are more expensive. | 21:44 |
| zykes- | What about london ? Copenhagen ? | 21:45 |
| spectorclan | I have been to all three and do like Brussels, not a big fan of Paris and Amsterdam has too many distractions. | 21:45 |
| spectorclan | zykes: London is very $$$$ | 21:45 |
| spectorclan | Don't know much about Cophenhagen | 21:45 |
| dendrobates | London is expensive and Copenhagen is full of Danes | 21:45 |
| zykes- | poor soren (: | 21:45 |
| ttx | also Copenhagen is just reachable by plane. Or boat. | 21:45 |
| soren | It's true. | 21:45 |
| spectorclan | Will look at 2011 event plan and see what timing looks best and get your thoughts. | 21:46 |
| zykes- | spectorclan: will there be any blog posts regarding that ? | 21:46 |
| spectorclan | So, plan is May in Silicon Valley; Fall in Japan and Summer in Europe | 21:46 |
| ttx | In Europe we have that thing called high speed train than the Swiss, French, BeneLux and English can use to go all over the place. | 21:46 |
| dendrobates | I think there will be resistance to the valley | 21:46 |
| spectorclan | zykes: Yes I will post blogs on the options as well as use IRC to pre-discuss. All event planning will be in the open in the wiki. | 21:46 |
| dendrobates | it seemed like there was at the summit | 21:47 |
| spectorclan | dendrobates: I know this but it is hard to ignore the 20% of the attendees from there | 21:47 |
| dendrobates | but it is easy to get ot | 21:47 |
| eday | folks in the valley are always looking for excuses to get out, just fyi :) | 21:47 |
| dendrobates | no it's not. Which attendees | 21:47 |
| soren | ttx: Yeah, much better than high speed buses: http://www.theonion.com/video/obama-replaces-costly-highspeed-rail-plan-with-hig,18473/ | 21:47 |
| spectorclan | I have the lists and can pass them along to you | 21:47 |
| zykes- | spectorclan: question, would it be possible to drag in ZenOSS as well ? | 21:48 |
| ttx | ok, we'll close now, I guess dendrobates and spectorclan need convince each other now | 21:48 |
| spectorclan | zykes: We can contact them. Right now there is a CloudCamp that wants to be at Design Summit in May | 21:48 |
| zykes- | CloudCamp ? | 21:48 |
| ttx | feel free to continue the discussion on #openstack (or here if you really want to | 21:48 |
| ttx | ) | 21:48 |
| zykes- | ok | 21:48 |
| spectorclan | i can stay here | 21:48 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:49 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 23 21:49:04 2010 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-11-23-21.01.html | 21:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-11-23-21.01.txt | 21:49 |
| spectorclan | zykes: they want to invite USERS to an event and though co-locating with us would be a great way for them to get more people | 21:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-11-23-21.01.log.html | 21:49 |
| spectorclan | zykes: we can also get more users to learn about openstack as well. seems a good win for both of us | 21:49 |
| ttx | soren: wow | 21:49 |
| soren | ttx: You love the animation they have :) | 21:50 |
| soren | Err... *I* love the animation. | 21:50 |
| * soren has typed too much today | 21:50 | |
| zykes- | spectorclan: yeh, i'm currently trying to "front" ZenOSS and OpenStack to my company in Norway | 21:50 |
| zykes- | and a big client we got | 21:50 |
| soren | ttx: You know what The Onion is, right? | 21:50 |
| ttx | yes :) | 21:51 |
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| spectorclan | zykes: ok, will check with them and see about doing something in Europe together; are they based in Europe? | 21:51 |
| zykes- | ZenOSS ? | 21:51 |
| zykes- | Texas | 21:51 |
| ttx | soren: I like their Business Class. | 21:52 |
| zykes- | if those are who you mean | 21:52 |
| zykes- | ZenOSS, Vyatta | 21:52 |
| zykes- | all "cool" projects that are going | 21:52 |
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| soren | ttx: It's almost what busines class is like on domestic flights. | 21:55 |
| soren | Except in that case, you actually get to sit *closer* to a restroom. | 21:56 |
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| zul | soren: i had one of those CRA jets (really crazy small) on my way back to san antonio i couldnt fit in the bathroom | 21:57 |
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| soren | zul: Almost all domestic flights in Denmark are like that. What sort of plane was it? | 21:59 |
| soren | zul: These are usually Canadair RJ 900. | 21:59 |
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| zul | soren: yeah it was the same | 22:03 |
| * ttx likes the small Embraers | 22:04 | |
| * soren likes big Airbuses. | 22:05 | |
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| zul | i like airplanes that fit | 22:07 |
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