Tuesday, 2010-11-23

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dendrobatessoren: had to be different?21:00
ttxhm, looks like it's Thanksgiving week or something.21:00
sorendendrobates: My mom says it's ok to be different.21:01
ttxlet's start21:01
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openstackMeeting started Tue Nov 23 21:01:24 2010 UTC.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.21:01
ttxWelcome to our weekly OpenStack team meeting...21:01
ttxToday's agenda is at: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings21:01
ttx#info Remember you can add topics to the agenda by editing the wiki directly...21:01
ttx#topic Actions from previous meeting21:01
ttx* Dissenters to start a blueprint process thread on the MLs21:02
ttxI saw the thread on openstack@lists.l.n, make sure your point is heard there21:02
ttx#topic Current release stage: Implementation21:02
ttxFor the curious I documented the release cycle at:21:02
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ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/ReleaseCycle21:03
ttxComments/critics welcome :)21:03
ttxSo at this point you should be busy writing code, reviewing proposed branches, and pinging dendrobates so that he approves your design :)21:03
ttxAny question on the current stage ?21:03
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jk0how are bug reports prioritized over blueprints?21:04
ttxjk0: ask and you may get an answer.21:04
jk0or vice versa21:04
jk0or to put it another way, should we be focusing more on bugs or blueprints right now?21:05
ttxjk0: the further you go into the cycle, the more focus the bugs should get21:05
vishylate o/21:05
ttxjk0: it depends on the bug, I'd say. A critical issue should be fixed asap21:05
dendrobatesjk0: new feature work is the focus, unless pvo directs different for you21:05
jk0great, thanks21:06
ttxOK, moving on to a closely related topic...21:06
ttx#topic Release status21:06
ttxdendrobates is working on the bexar blueprint lists, so until we have them I don't really know what we want to track, so I don't really have a release status yet...21:06
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dendrobatesooh, blame me21:06
ttxI will.21:06
ttx#info I'm just a bit worried by the state of bexar-network-service, since it has a few specs depending on it and it looks stuck in Drafting...21:07
dendrobatesI have approved most everything, it seems like an unreasonable ammount of work for a release though21:07
ttx#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/bexar-network-service21:07
ttxdendrobates: approving the design is not the same as taregting to a specific release... especially since we planned for two21:08
dendrobatesttx: I agree it needs to be ironed out early21:08
dendrobatesI mean just for bexar21:08
ttxI agree the Nova list seems unrealistic, but I'm new around here :)21:08
ttxdendrobates: should we have a cleaner and more realistic set of targets by next week ?21:09
dendrobatesI will be modifying priorities as soon as I get feedback from stakeholders21:09
ttxdendrobates: i've been working on Glance bexar targeting with jaypipes21:09
ttxit's almost clean.21:09
dendrobatesa large number of which, have been busy partying in Japan21:10
ttxdendrobates: ok21:10
ttxanything else on that subject ?21:10
ttx#topic Bugs status meaning discussion21:11
ttxOK, so in the same spirit as http://wiki.openstack.org/BlueprintsLifecycle, I need to document the Bugs lifecycle21:11
ttxthat is write in a reference doc what each status means to us.21:11
ttxI'd like your input on that, since I have no strong opinion...21:11
ttxIn particular what meaning do you want for "Fix Committed" and "Fix Released" ?21:12
xtoddxreleased = in trunk, committed = in branch proposed for merge ?21:12
jk0^ ++21:12
sorenIt's worth noting that bugs in "fix committed" are still listed on bugs pages.21:12
soren"fix released" are not.21:13
ttxxtoddx: I like that21:13
edaywell, one issue there21:13
edayfor non-developers who want something fixed, knowing it's in a release is good21:13
sorenSo if we go with "in trunk "== "fix released", people may stumble upon a bug in a released version of Openstack, and not find it in the bug lists and report it again.21:13
ttxbasically, we say there is more value in seeing a bugfix is proposed for merging, than saying a release contains it21:13
edayI could see users thinking since they got an official release, it's fixed, only to be disappointed21:14
sorenConversely, keeping things at "fix committed" is really noisy to developers trying to get an overview of bugs.21:14
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edaysoren: that's a LP bug then, we should be able to filter non-commited bugs, if we cant already :)21:14
ttxI agree, ons solution is more user-oriented (users of releases) while the other is a bit developer-centric21:14
soreneday: I'm sure we can.21:14
soreneday: It's just the default list of open bugs.21:15
soreneday: Bugs in "fix committed" are still "open".21:15
sorenJust as a data point, Ubuntu uses "fix released" as soon as a fix has been uploaded t othe archive.21:15
edaysoren: yup, and perhaps that's a bug we should file: default lists should not include comitted21:15
soreneday: I'm not sure I'd agree with that.21:16
dendrobatessoren: but ubuntu targets bugs to specific releases21:16
xtoddxwe're building nightlies right?  so landing trunk == releasing that day?21:16
ttxhmm, sounds like this discussion would benefit from a larger forum. I'll kick a thread on the MLs about it21:16
sorenxtoddx: We're builing per commit.21:16
sorenxtoddx: building, even.21:16
sorenxtoddx: So more often than nightly.21:16
xtoddxright, so i stand by landing in trunk == released21:16
sorendendrobates: Not sure where you're going with that.21:17
sorenxtoddx: I'm slightly in favour of that as well, but could probably be convinced otherwise.21:17
ttx#action ttx to start a thread about LP bug statuses (in particular FixCommitted meaning)21:17
sorenI just mentioned Ubuntu as a data point, not really as an argument either way.21:17
dendrobatesthey can mark a bug fixed in the current dev release when it is uploaded, but not others21:17
sorendendrobates: Oh, right. So can we.21:17
dendrobatesperhaps we should do the same21:17
dendrobatesthat was my point21:18
sorendendrobates: Gotcha.21:18
edayso, I'm for whatever ubuntu does, because in the past I've found trying to use LP in a way ubuntu does not can be painful21:18
edaybut I do have that one concern21:18
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dendrobatesUbuntu is not known for great bug handling21:18
ttxsoren, xtoddx, dendrobates, eday: I'll rehash the discussion on the ML to make sure everyone can expose his opinion.21:18
dendrobatesbut they have a bazillion21:19
ttxOK to move on ?21:19
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ttx#topic Mailing list consolidation21:20
ttxdendrobates: floor is yours21:20
dendrobatesah yes21:20
dendrobatesat the summit we discussed the mailing lists21:20
dendrobatesand it was the nearly unanimous opinion that we had too many21:21
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sorenHear hear!21:21
dendrobatesWe should cull the lists back to one main dev list and and announce list21:21
ttx"too many" as in "too many without a single message posted in them"21:21
dendrobatesand revisit it when traffic for any one topic gets high21:22
sorenCan we make the announce list an actual announce list and not a medium for distributing news letters?21:22
dendrobatesI plan on culling the nova and swift lists, but...21:22
spectorclansoren: i only sent the newsletter once to that list21:22
dendrobatessoren: what announce list are you talking about21:22
sorendendrobates: http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-announce21:23
spectorclandendrobates: mailing lists from openstack.lists.org21:23
sorenAn announce list is useful.21:23
sorenFor announcing new releases and such.21:23
spectorclanthis holds the complete 4,000+ people who registered on the website during launch of openstack21:23
dendrobatesI need to ask LP what to do about the archives21:23
sorendendrobates: You want to consolidate all of {openstack,nova,swift}@lists.launchpad.net into one?21:24
sorenSounds great.21:24
dendrobatesonly openstack would remain21:24
ttxyes, we should divide them when traffic gets too heavy, not before they get any traffic.21:24
dendrobatesdo you agree that not losing the archives is important?21:24
dendrobatesFiguring that out will delay it a little bit.21:25
sorenCan't we just disable the mailing list, keeping the archives?21:25
xtoddxdendrobates: i could care less about the archives21:25
sorenI should know the answer to that, really.21:25
dendrobatesI don't assume anything with LP21:25
* soren checks21:25
edayI think thats the case, I disabled a list once21:25
edayand the archives remained21:25
spectorclanWe should keep the archives21:26
dendrobatesare there any objections to dropping nova and swift?21:26
ttxthere is /some/ value in keeping the archives... but not enough to prevent us from merging in the near future21:26
sorenSo what wil happen to the teams?21:26
dendrobatesttx: I just wanted to know how hard to work at it, if it wasn;t easy21:27
edaydoes glance have it's own too we should include?21:27
sorenThey exist mostly to have these mailing lists, afaik.21:27
dendrobatesthe teams will not change21:27
xtoddxyou can use teams to request reviews of merge proposals21:27
ttxglance has a list too21:27
xtoddxfor that reason alone they are worth keeping21:27
ttxnothing posted to it in the archives.21:28
dendrobatesI don;t want to change the teams right now.  One painful change at a time please21:28
sorendendrobates: No problem. I was just wondering if they were going to be repurposed.21:28
edayi see no need to change teams21:28
ttx#action dendrobates to merge (or delegate merging of) the MLs, keep the archives21:29
dendrobatesOK, I'll send an email to all the list explaining the changes.21:29
dendrobatesso please ignore multiple copies21:29
ttxanything more on that subject ?21:29
ttx#topic Merge queue backup in nova21:30
ttxeday: floor is yours21:30
edayso, there are two thigns here I wanted to address21:30
edayFirst, we have a lot of things in the queue, we all need to review more :)21:30
edayIf you have an oustanding branch, don't be afriad to ping people in IRC to get a review21:31
edaySecond, there are a few branches that are quite stale21:31
edaySome dated in Sept/Oct... what should we do with these?21:31
dendrobatesI can purge those21:31
edayThey most likely will not merge, but I don't want to lose the work21:32
dendrobatesbut some, i.e. raw disk images need to be picked up21:32
dendrobatesthe branches don't go anywhere21:32
edayBut if no one pushes them forward, they're as good as gone :)21:32
edayI guess we should ping the folks who proposed them and see what each status is21:33
edayie: xtoddx, what is the plan for auth-server?21:33
ttxeday: if they are linked to a blueprint or a bug, they should still be found21:33
dendrobatesttx most of the old ones are not21:33
edayttx: yup, but I'm just saying we should piss or get off the pot with the merge props :)21:33
xtoddxeday: need to do gap with what has been merged with the osapi to see what else needs to happen21:33
xtoddxeday: the only critical part is a middleware for swift auth21:34
edayxtoddx: ok, so we should probably remove the merge prop until thats ready21:35
edayOk, that's all, I just wanted to get things moving to keep the merge prop page clean, rather than having to remember which ones are actually valid or not21:36
dendrobatesthanks for bringing it up21:36
edayAlso, some things are hard to approve becuse there's no way some of us can test certain configs, but that's another issue21:36
ttxSo cleaning it up is a recurrent work that everybody with enough power should help with, right21:37
ttxit = the activereviews page(s)21:37
ttxfor the record, I plan to work on a dashboard that should start blinking when we reach some absuive situation21:38
ttxlike say, having 2-month old reviews stuck or too many of them unreviewed21:39
edayttx: cool21:39
ttxthat should help us with the overall "health" of the project21:39
edayttx: and wire that up to tazers for all nova-core21:39
ttxI like that.21:39
ttx#topic Open discussion21:39
ttxAnything else on your mind ?21:40
dendrobatesanyone pissed off about anything :)21:40
spectorclanI will have the new Events Page up later today with all links of slides and videos from Design Summit21:41
spectorclanWatch twitter for announcement21:41
edayany word yet on location for next design summit?21:41
xtoddxit looks like not all the blog posts are going to the wiki sidebar21:42
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spectorclanwe are thinking Silicon Valley as 20% of all attendees were from there.21:42
spectorclanI have created a new wiki page to plan the event in the open and will launch that next Monday after the holiday21:42
ttxspectorclan: better beer in Dublin, and starts with a D ;)21:42
zykes-will there be any events in europe ?21:42
spectorclanttx: we are going to Europe as well in 2011, just not sure when yet but we will be there21:42
zulheh there is more to this world than silicon valley21:43
spectorclanWe are planning on LinuxTAG and others21:43
zykes-spectorclan: any in britain / nordics ?21:43
spectorclanWe will have a Europe Design Summit in the summer some time, weather is nicer21:43
annegentlextoddx: re: blog > wiki, what do you mean?21:43
spectorclanWhere in Europe is open to this group?21:43
xtoddxsorry, not wiki, but http://openstack.org/21:43
spectorclanI like Munich21:43
edayspectorclan: rackspace UK offices?21:43
xtoddxannegentle: the right sidebar of "latest" doesn't have all the blog content21:44
sorenttx: Good idea! I have a couple of Guiness vouchers left from my last visit.21:44
ttxspectorclan: Brussles is the most central, due to high speed trains21:44
zykes-Munich, plan it right after CEBIT : p21:44
ttxMunich is almost unreachable.21:44
spectorclanas you can see, lots of ideas. Will let you know and we are thinking CEBIT for OpenStack also21:44
spectorclanOK, Brussels??21:44
annegentlextoddx: ah yeah I see what you mean. I'll ping Todd Morey on that. Maybe it's highly selective :)21:44
ttxspectorclan: or Paris or Amsterdam, but those are more expensive.21:44
zykes-What about london ? Copenhagen ?21:45
spectorclanI have been to all three and do like Brussels, not a big fan of Paris and Amsterdam has too many distractions.21:45
spectorclanzykes: London is very $$$$21:45
spectorclanDon't  know much about Cophenhagen21:45
dendrobatesLondon is expensive and Copenhagen is full of Danes21:45
zykes-poor soren (:21:45
ttxalso Copenhagen is just reachable by plane. Or boat.21:45
sorenIt's true.21:45
spectorclanWill look at 2011 event plan and see what timing looks best and get your thoughts.21:46
zykes-spectorclan: will there be any blog posts regarding that ?21:46
spectorclanSo, plan is May in Silicon Valley; Fall in Japan and Summer in Europe21:46
ttxIn Europe we have that thing called high speed train than the Swiss, French, BeneLux and English can use to go all over the place.21:46
dendrobatesI think there will be resistance to the valley21:46
spectorclanzykes: Yes I will post blogs on the options as well as use IRC to pre-discuss. All event planning will be in the open in the wiki.21:46
dendrobatesit seemed like there was at the summit21:47
spectorclandendrobates: I know this but it is hard to ignore the 20% of the attendees from there21:47
dendrobatesbut it is easy to get ot21:47
edayfolks in the valley are always looking for excuses to get out, just fyi :)21:47
dendrobatesno it's not.  Which attendees21:47
sorenttx: Yeah, much better than high speed buses: http://www.theonion.com/video/obama-replaces-costly-highspeed-rail-plan-with-hig,18473/21:47
spectorclanI have the lists and can pass them along to you21:47
zykes-spectorclan: question, would it be possible to drag in ZenOSS as well ?21:48
ttxok, we'll close now, I guess dendrobates and spectorclan need convince each other now21:48
spectorclanzykes: We can contact them. Right now there is a CloudCamp that wants to be at Design Summit in May21:48
zykes-CloudCamp ?21:48
ttxfeel free to continue the discussion on #openstack (or here if you really want to21:48
spectorclani can stay here21:48
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov 23 21:49:04 2010 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:49
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-11-23-21.01.html21:49
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-11-23-21.01.txt21:49
spectorclanzykes: they want to invite USERS to an event and though co-locating with us would be a great way for them to get more people21:49
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-11-23-21.01.log.html21:49
spectorclanzykes: we can also get more users to learn about openstack as well. seems a good win for both of us21:49
ttxsoren: wow21:49
sorenttx: You love the animation they have :)21:50
sorenErr... *I* love the animation.21:50
* soren has typed too much today21:50
zykes-spectorclan: yeh, i'm currently trying to "front" ZenOSS and OpenStack to my company in Norway21:50
zykes-and a big client we got21:50
sorenttx: You know what The Onion is, right?21:50
ttxyes :)21:51
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spectorclanzykes: ok, will check with them and see about doing something in Europe together; are they based in Europe?21:51
zykes-ZenOSS ?21:51
ttxsoren: I like their Business Class.21:52
zykes-if those are who you mean21:52
zykes-ZenOSS, Vyatta21:52
zykes-all "cool" projects that are going21:52
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sorenttx: It's almost what busines class is like on domestic flights.21:55
sorenExcept in that case, you actually get to sit *closer* to a restroom.21:56
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zulsoren: i had one of those CRA jets (really crazy small) on my way back to san antonio i couldnt fit in the bathroom21:57
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sorenzul: Almost all domestic flights in Denmark are like that. What sort of plane was it?21:59
sorenzul: These are usually Canadair RJ 900.21:59
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zulsoren: yeah it was the same22:03
* ttx likes the small Embraers22:04
* soren likes big Airbuses.22:05
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zuli like airplanes that fit22:07
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