Tuesday, 2010-11-30

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ttxhey hey20:58
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ttxhello hello21:00
* creiht bows21:00
danwenthi folks21:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov 30 21:00:45 2010 UTC.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.21:00
ttxWelcome to our weekly OpenStack team meeting...21:00
ttxToday's agenda is at: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings21:01
* ttx checks for late additions to the agenda...21:01
ttx#topic Actions from previous meeting21:01
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ttx* ttx to start a ML thread about LP bug statuses: done21:01
ttx* dendrobates to merge (or delegate merging of) the MLs, keep the archives21:01
ttxdendrobates: in progress ?21:02
dendrobatesnot doen yer21:02
dendrobatesnot done yet21:02
dendrobatesblame thanksgiving21:02
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dendrobatesIn process.21:02
ttxok, pushing back to next week then21:02
creihtdendrobates: too much vegitarian turkey?21:02
ttx#action dendrobates to merge (or delegate merging of) the MLs, keep the archives21:02
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dendrobatescreiht: actually yes21:02
ttx#topic Current release stage: Implementation21:03
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ttxSo you should still be busy writing code, reviewing proposed branches, and pinging dendrobates so that he approves your design :)21:03
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ttx#info For bonus points, you can update the "Implementation" status of your blueprints following the definitions at http://wiki.openstack.org/BlueprintsLifecycle21:03
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ttxStarted / Slow progress / Good progress / Blocked...21:04
ttx#topic Release status21:04
ttxWe have a Bexar list for Glance, available at:21:04
ttx#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/bexar21:04
ttxStatus looks good, with teller-api (essential) on track for delivery in bexar...21:05
ttxjaypipes isn't around ?21:05
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ttxdendrobates is still working on the Nova and Swift lists, I hope we can have them this week, once he is done with the CLA stuff.21:05
dendrobatesttx: there will still be changes to the priorities21:06
ttxThe idea being, we track progress on the blueprints that are targeted to the release, especially the "essential" ones.21:06
ttxdendrobates: ok, let me know if I can help you in cleaning up the lists21:06
ttxAny other comments ?21:07
dendrobatesmake sure dependancies are in your bps21:07
ttxLike your work is blocked by someone else's spec not progressing ?21:07
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dendrobatescorrect dependencies help us set priority21:08
dendrobatesand I encourage everyone to link a branch to your bp as well21:08
dendrobatesnot required, but appreciated21:08
ttxcreiht/dendrobates: should we use "1.2" as synonymous to "Bexar" for swift ?21:08
ttxOK. I plan to generate combined release BP lists using the LP blueprint APi, when it's available21:09
ttxso that we can have "bexar openstack specs" lists21:10
Daviey"when available"21:10
ttx(currently that's not possible at project group level)21:10
ttxDaviey: it's planned for LP 10.12.21:10
ttxDec 8.21:10
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ttxDaviey: told you christmas was early this year.21:11
ttx#topic LP Bugs fields, redux21:11
ttxSo I started a discussion on the mailing-list, and just wrote a draft at:21:11
ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/BugsLifecycle21:11
ttx#info Please review it and comment on the ML thread.21:11
ttxExecutive summary: Two opiniated choices were made in this draft21:12
ttx(1) "Fix Committed" means in trunk, "Fix Released" means in release21:12
ttx(2) "Confirmed" means reproduced and importance set, "Triaged" means debugged with a documented solution21:12
ttx(1) was rather consensual, but (2) was still very much discussed.21:12
ttxI think the current proposal maps better to our workflow, but feel free to convince me otherwise.21:12
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ttxQuestions ?21:13
ttx#topic i18n - adding coding standards (tpatil)21:14
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annegentleso non-programmers can confirm but not really triage bugs? (Just clarifying)21:14
TusharWe are working on i18n changes for bexar release21:14
alekibangoi have foun dsome i18n bugs21:14
TusharTo support i18n, we would need to change all hard coded log messages21:14
alekibangoi will try to send patches tonight or tomorrow21:14
Tusharfor e.g. from logging.debug("instance %s: is running", instance['name'])21:14
Tusharto logging.debug(_("instance %s: is running"), instance['name'])21:14
ttxannegentle: depending on their technical knowledge, they could debug and explain the solution21:14
ttxannegentle: (without coding)21:15
annegentlettx: ok, thanks21:15
alekibangoi mean, i have found some things not working properly when you have czech locales configured21:15
dendrobatesTushar: are we using Launchpad to do the manage the translations?21:15
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Tusharbut I haven't worked on this before..21:15
Tusharwe are still understanding launchpad trnslation process.21:16
xtoddxTushar: there may be a way to automatically call _() on log messages with the nova/log.py that is in lp:~xtoddx/nova/newlog21:16
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annegentledendrobates: does someone need to set up Launchpad to enable translation management? We looked at the Summit but I think there's a config step.21:17
sorenThere might be. Let me have a look.21:17
xtoddxTushar: I hadn't thought about it until now, but I'm sure we can automatically translate log strings, perhaps when hey go into the formatter21:17
dendrobatesannegentle: I'll look into it.21:17
jaypipesannegentle: you can ask mtaylor for help on that...he knows how it works.21:17
xtoddxi'll look over it late tonight and see if I come up with anything.  that would be the easiest change21:17
TusharOk, thanks21:18
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Tusharanother point is to induce the coding standard for i18n changes..21:18
Tusharwhere should we specify the coding standard?21:19
xtoddxTushar: maybe you could write something up in the HACKING file in the root directory?21:19
jaypipesxtoddx: no, you would use gettext around the message string in the source file.21:19
dendrobatesTushar: we need something on the wiki as well21:19
Tushar"log message" should be replaced with _("log message")21:20
Tusharand you will needto import gettext module21:20
jaypipesTushar: you mean, the "best" way to do things like from gettext import ugettext as _ ?21:20
xtoddxjaypipes: i don't know gettext, but why is that the case?21:20
jaypipesTushar: I can help with that.21:20
TusharOk, thanks21:20
gundlachif we can avoid littering code w/ _()s that would be ideal -- either centralizing in xtoddx's log.py or monkeypatching the logging module21:21
jaypipesxtoddx: you "mark" strings in the source as i18n'd with gettext, and running the gettext binaries on the source directory produces a .po file that is uploaded to Launchpad for translations.21:21
dendrobatesI think we need to move all strings to .pot files and then we can import them into LP21:21
jaypipesdendrobates: we do it in Drizzle. mtaylor and myself can take point on this.21:21
dendrobatesWhich will track all the strings for translation21:21
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jaypipesgundlach: believe it or not, littering the code with _() is the standard way of doing this..21:22
ttx#action jaypipes and mtaylor to help Tushar set up his i18n efforts21:22
dendrobatesjaypipes: can you work with Tushar and let me know i fyou need anything else21:22
jaypipesdendrobates: yep21:22
gundlachjaypipes: yeah, i know, but that's great in projects that have lots of different exposed strings.  logging is the vast majority of our exposed strings, right?21:23
gundlachjaypipes: so we don't have to accept the litter in most cases.21:23
* ttx can't wait to get some translation karma for translating openstack messages into French.21:23
jaypipesgundlach: yes, we do.  the litter is at the place of textual origin.  the new logging module would not be the place of textual origin, it would be a wrapper around the logging.debug(), etc calls.21:23
sorenjaypipes: Does it have to be, though?21:24
gundlachi don't see the value of having to put _() at the place of textual origin.21:24
jaypipessoren: yes.21:24
sorenAh, yeah, otherwise we can't export them.21:24
sorenEasily, at least.21:24
jaypipesgundlach: the only other way would be to have a single file with constant to English message string map, and only having _() in that file... but that's more cumbersome IMHO.21:25
gundlacherm, ok, i bow to your experience in this21:25
ttxok, sounds like we have a plan then21:26
gundlachi don't quite get it, but that's ok, we can talk offline :)21:26
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jaypipesgundlach: sure :)21:26
ttxTushar: is it what is tracked by https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/i18n-support ?21:27
ttxTushar: ok, great.21:27
Tushartwe have also set ausit-logging as dependency..21:27
edaygundlach: to collect the strings to translate, they need to be tagged in source. they are never called (ie, monkey patching doesn't help identify if you never call it)21:27
zykes-can help doing norwegian21:27
zykes-and some swedish (:21:28
gundlachgotcha, so something does a lexical check for _ ( ) and then translates the source files?21:28
* jaypipes can help translate into Jive.21:28
ttxxtoddx: how far away is audit-logging from being proposed for merging ?21:28
ttxxtoddx: it's part of lp:~anso/nova/deploy21:28
xtoddxttx: it is, eday left some comments today, i need to see how far we diverge from how swift logs21:28
xtoddxlp:~xtoddx/nova/newlog is auditlogging, i forgot to link to the blueprint21:29
xtoddxits a port of our logging changes from deploy into trunk21:29
edaygundlach: yup, then it creates a bunch of translated files that can be used for substitutions (monkey patching would work at this step, but that doesn't help at this point)21:29
ttxxtoddx: ok, thanks !21:29
ttxanythins else on that subject before we move to open discussion ?21:30
gundlacheday: gotcha, thought it was at runtime.  i still think we could ask the translator to detect _() as well as logging.<anything>(), but ok :)21:30
edayjaypipes: I have a program that does jive translations for you21:30
jaypipeseday: :) cool.21:30
ttx#topic Open discussion21:31
edaygundlach: for collection, yes, you could look for things other than _(), but then it might get messy. who knows :)21:31
dendrobatesI am taking the raw-disk-image brach and fixing it up.21:32
dendrobatesit has been dormant for 6 weeks and is a dependency for other things21:32
dendrobatesI'll be doing the merge proposal today or tomorrow21:32
dendrobateswhat about the hyperv MR?21:33
dendrobatesanyone working on that?21:33
sorenI poked Chiradeep. He said he'd fix it up.21:35
* alekibango hopes live migration will come in soon21:35
dendrobatessoren: when did you poke him.21:35
sorendendrobates: Yesterday.21:35
sorenI think.21:35
sorenOr early today.21:35
sorenI'm not sure. I've lost my sense of time.21:35
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sorenMy wife promised she'd let me know when it's christmas.21:36
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alekibangosoren: you missed it. it was last month21:37
sorenNext year, then.21:37
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sorenI'm done21:40
ttxok, let's close it21:41
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov 30 21:41:34 2010 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:41
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-11-30-21.00.html21:41
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-11-30-21.00.txt21:41
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2010/openstack-meeting.2010-11-30-21.00.log.html21:41
ttxThanks everyone.21:41
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