Tuesday, 2011-02-15

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glencignore that19:31
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* ttx waves20:59
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ttxanyone alive ?21:00
* westmaas waves21:00
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ttxok, not sure that's a quorum, but let's get started21:01
ewanmellorAlive and well21:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 15 21:01:37 2011 UTC.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.21:01
ttxWelcome to our weekly OpenStack team meeting...21:01
ttxToday's agenda is at:21:01
ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings21:02
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ttxNo actions from last week meeting21:02
ttx#topic Current release stage: Development21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Current release stage: Development"21:02
ttxWe are now well into the development stage.21:02
ttxMerge proposals are starting to pile up, so -core people don't forget to spend some time on reviews21:02
ttxWe now almost have the final Cactus plans up on http://wiki.openstack.org/releasestatus/21:03
ttx(btw this page now displays branch links so you can easily look up work in progress)21:03
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ttxNote that these "plans" are for tracking purposes, it should never prevent you from coding, we can always catch up later.21:03
ttxI think Glance is complete, Nova is almost done, Swift is still todo21:03
annegentlettx: woo for branch links21:03
ttxcreiht: do you think we can get Swift plans done by next week ?21:04
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ttxannegentle: thanks. I had to fix Launchpad so that they would work.21:04
johnpurttx: how are we tracking items for the stability goals?21:04
dendrobatesright now we I don't think we are, but we need bp's for them21:04
ttxjohnpur: stability is not really a feature... so it's more about having a testing effort to uncover the bugs then track bug fixing21:05
* soren has no clue what to write in such a blueprint.21:05
dendrobatesit depends21:05
dendrobatessome of what soren is doing is bug hunting21:05
johnpurwe need to get this in a measurable form21:05
justinsbDo we have integration tests?  That would work...21:05
dendrobatesbut Jay plans on doing some autoomated testing work and that can be a bp21:05
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* soren has some automated testing going21:06
ttxsometimes there is an area of improvement that can also make up a blueprint. For example "resilience to instance failure"21:06
dendrobatessoren: that all needs bp's then21:06
dendrobatesat least so you and jaypipes don;t do the samer work21:06
ttxjohnpur: so you have some efforts that can be tracked as BPs, for the rest it's about measuring progress in bug fixing21:06
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johnpurwho should own the whole "stability/resiliancy/testing/qa" effort?21:07
sorenHmm... Yeah.21:07
johnpurwe need good descriptions of the objectives and plans to meet them21:07
johnpuror else we will be no better than we have been in the past21:07
sorenSomeone who has access to a bunch of hardware would be a good person to be on top of this.21:07
johnpurrackspace is putting up 188 hosts21:08
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sorenThat's what I hear. I just don't think they'll turn up on my doorstep :)21:08
dprinceAre these test we plan on running on every build?21:08
sorenOr so I hope.21:08
johnpurjaypipes: what is your plan?21:09
ttxjohnpur: so far it's been a shared effort, but I understand the need for a vision on this, with objectives and measurable results21:09
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ttxjohnpur: maybe we can start a public discussion on the vision part, see if some natural leader emerges for this ?21:10
johnpurttx: sounds like a good idea21:11
dendrobatesMy opinion is that jaypipes should lead the efforts21:11
dendrobateshe seems to be missing today21:11
johnpurjaypipes is doing some of this now21:11
ttx#action ttx and johnpur to ensure the stability goals are defined and properly tracked21:11
ttxjohnpur: i'll be in touch with you about it.21:11
ttxdendrobates: you wanted to talk about some of the Nova blueprints ?21:12
ttxjohnpur: I probably can't lead it, but I can definitely facilitate it.21:12
dendrobateseverything has been reviewed and approved unless you have heard from me21:12
dendrobateswith the exception of a few bps that I have questions about21:13
dendrobatesor that seem like duplicate efforts21:13
ewanmellordendrobates: I see the "No spec link" warning triangle on http://wiki.openstack.org/releasestatus/.  Does this mean that you aren't approving blueprints if they don't have a spec link?21:13
dendrobatesin general that is the case.  I made at least one exception21:13
dendrobateswhere the work was an extension of an existing feature21:14
ewanmellorI note that xenapi-vlan-network-manager has a lot of text in the whiteboard, rather than a separate spec page.21:14
dendrobatesewanmellor: there were a couple like that, IMHO that is equivalent21:15
jaypipesjohnpur, dendrobates: sorry, stepped away for a sec.21:15
johnpurpvo: or other RAX cloud guys... looking at the 51 BP's, does this encompass everything RAX needs to start preparing to transition to Nova?21:16
ttxewanmellor, dendrobates: once the spec is approved, the warning goes away.21:16
dendrobatesalso some specs are not set 'pending approval'21:16
dendrobatesso I assumed those are not ready.21:16
troytoma_johnpur: that is everything we know about21:17
ewanmellordendrobates: Oh, makes sense.  I shall chase ours in the morning then.21:17
dendrobatesI also set one bp back to drafting for more info21:17
johnpurtrotoma_: thx!21:17
ttxdendrobates: some of those "non-pending-approval" already have branches proposed21:17
ttxso it's probably an oversight21:17
jaypipesre: testing, I've had a few conversations with termie, but nothing solid yet. haven't had a chance to focus on the CI testing yet, sorry.21:17
dendrobatesttx: ok, I'll look at them asap21:17
* ttx votes to duplicate jaypipes21:18
dendrobatesbtw, it's awesome that so many people are attaching branches to their bps21:18
johnpurdendrobates: are we targeting to diablo now?21:18
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dendrobatesjohnpur: not yet, but I think we need to get that started asap21:18
johnpurme too...21:19
ttx#action ttx to create the diablo series21:19
ttxok, anything more on the cactus plans front ?21:19
dendrobatesnot from me.21:19
ttxok, moving on...21:19
ttx#topic Nova 2011.1.121:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova 2011.1.1"21:20
ttxFor those who missed last week meeting, we'll have a 2011.1.1 update for Nova Bexar so that we include missing files in the released tarballs (bugs 714678 and 714679).21:20
ttx#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/2011.1.121:20
ttxThat said we have a number of other bugfixes that are candidates for inclusion in 2011.1.121:20
ttx#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=bexar-post-release21:20
ttxFrom bug comments I've identified two candidates, anything else you want to be considered ?21:20
ttxI'd like us to discuss which should be included. I'd rather have a limited list of showstopper fixes, so that we limit the risk of regression21:21
ttxAlso I'd like the fixes to be committed in Cactus before they are shipped in 2011.1.1, so the more we add the more we delay 2011.1.121:21
ewanmellorThe eventlet ones that Soren worked on looked serious.21:21
ewanmellorAnd easy to fix21:21
dendrobates+1 on that21:22
ttxsoren do you think we should ship the fix for that one ?21:22
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sorenI'm not sure.21:22
sorenIt depends on a patched eventlet.21:23
ewanmellorThose two are the ones I was thinking of.21:23
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sorenThe RPC one, sure.21:23
* ttx adds tags to both so that we discuss them21:23
sorenThe eventlet one...21:23
jaypipessorry guys, in a few conversations now...21:24
sorenNo, I don't think I want that one backported.21:24
ttxCandidate list updated at https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=bexar-post-release21:24
sorenIt requires a version of eventlet that is not only different than the one required by what we released with bexar, but is not even available from upstream yet.21:24
ttxlet's go through them one by one21:24
sorenNot even in their VCS.21:24
sorenWithout that part, Nova won't work at all.21:24
ttxbug 71839021:25
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sorenNo uvirtbot?21:25
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sorenbug 71839021:25
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 718390 in nova "Filedescriptor leak and zombie processes" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71839021:25
sorenThere we go.21:25
ttxsoren: so you -1 that one ?21:25
dendrobatesI think that takes it out of the running21:26
ttxbug 71343021:26
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 713430 in nova "Restart of nova-volume with volumes in wrong state: global name 'volume_ref' is not defined" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71343021:26
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soren+1 for sure21:26
ttxvishy left with the split but I know he wanted that one in21:27
Ryan_Lanecan bug 714889 also be added for bexar-post-release?21:27
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 714889 in nova "GetConsoleOutput in EC2 api requires InstanceId.1, when it should use InstanceId" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71488921:27
ttxRyan_Lane: adding to the list for consideration21:27
ttxbug 71867521:28
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 718675 in nova "Can't create db with PostgreSQL backend" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71867521:28
ttxjaypipes: you proposed this one ?21:28
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dendrobatesthere is a workaround, don't use postgres21:29
ttxbug 71488921:29
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 714889 in nova "GetConsoleOutput in EC2 api requires InstanceId.1, when it should use InstanceId" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71488921:29
ttxThis one sounds rather limited to me, hardly a showstopper ?21:30
ttxRyan_Lane: rationale for inclusion ?21:30
Ryan_LaneI can't pull console output in my web interface, and i'd like to not have to patch :)21:31
dendrobatesttx: however the fix is not risky21:31
sorenYeah, it looks pretty safe to me.21:31
ttxdendrobates: then +1 it :)21:32
dendrobates+1 it affects Ryan and is trivial21:32
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ttxbug 71642721:32
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 716427 in nova "RPC concurrency problem" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71642721:32
ttxI think we +1d it in previous discussion21:32
johnpuragree +121:33
ttxOK, I'll summarize the results and post it to ML for people that missed the meeting21:33
jaypipesttx: no, not that I know of.21:33
ttx#action ttx to target bugs to 2011.1.1 and post proposed list of fixes for last-minute comments21:34
ttxjaypipes: ISTR you commented in that direction on the BMP21:34
sorenWhat's the plan for testing this point release?21:34
johnpurttx: once we release 2011.1.1 do we start discussing 1.2?21:34
ttxjohnpur: I don't think so.21:34
sorenI sure hope we won't do a 1.2.21:34
johnpurwe won't know if we don't look at the bugs?21:35
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ttxjohnpur: did the POC rule a point release policy yet ?21:35
johnpurttx: good q for any of the poc members on today?21:36
sorenjohnpur: I don't think we'd even be evaluating this list of bugs if it hadn't been for the one about a bunch of stuff missing from the tarball.21:36
ttxLast time I asked the decision was that Nova was too fast-moving to warrant point releases21:36
ttxsoren: exactlty21:36
johnpursoren: the question is whether we should21:36
ttxjohnpur: I'd say, not for Bexar, but we need the policy decided before we release Cactus21:36
dendrobatesI like the way kvm did it.21:37
sorenThe way I see it, the bugs would have to be rather devastating to warrant a fresh tarball.21:37
johnpurgets back to the stability questions, are we keeping trunk runnable now?21:37
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dendrobatesthey let the distros handle backporting bugs until things slowed down21:37
sorenIf/when we decide to do a point release to address the devastating bug, we can include a few other simple/important fixes.21:37
ewanmellorThe POC has another meeting this Thursday.  Last week's overran.21:37
soren...but I don't think we should plan to do one.21:37
ttxlet's defer to the POC on that question.21:38
ttx#action POC to rule on point release policy for the different projects21:38
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ttx#topic Open discussion21:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion"21:39
Ryan_Lanesiebrand from translate wiki heard the openstack talk at fosdem and is really excited about the project (and wikimedia's involvement), and was wondering if you guys would like translation support through translate wiki.21:39
ewanmellorPOC wanted to go back to Ubuntu et al and see if that was something that they were happy with doing (doing our point-release dirty work for us)21:39
Ryan_Lanetranslate wiki does localization for mediawiki, and a number of other projects, and the translations are done by an army of volunteers21:40
Ryan_Lanethey support a couple hundred languages well21:40
berendthow is the status about the rewrite/extension of nova-manage21:40
Ryan_Lane(mediawiki has at least some support for over 300 languages, for instance)21:40
berendthow is the status about adding/extending schedulers21:40
dendrobatesRyan_Lane: for docs, not code right?21:40
Ryan_Lanehe's also fairly good at helping with ways to better support localization in code21:41
ttxRyan_Lane: we used Rosetta so far with surprisingly good results, and jaypipes/mtaylor just finalized automated that, I'd hate to change translation communities now :)21:42
berendthow is the status about replacing rabbitmq with something other (i forgot with what, somebody noted  a python-framework)21:42
sorenI doubt we'll replace rabbit.21:42
Ryan_Laneok. will let him know :)21:42
dendrobatesbut we'll keep it in mind if we have problems and we might need document and wiki translations21:42
berendthow is the status about supporting more databases, oracle for example21:42
sorenberendt: We support whatever sqlalchemy supports.21:43
ttxNote that the live migration branch is back for review, so please give it a look.21:43
sorenberendt: (that includes Oracle)21:43
ttxLet's try not to repeat the same mistakes :)21:43
dendrobatessoren: but that does not mean that is is tested21:43
sorendendrobates: Indeed.21:44
johnpurttx: please! Let's jump on this early.21:44
ttxtermie: ^21:44
berendtdendrobates: at the moment only MySQL is tested, right?21:44
ttxdendrobates: as was pretty apparent when someone tried to use Bexar with postgres21:44
ttxberendt: and sqlite.21:45
berendtttx: I don't think that sqlite is a option for a productive environment..21:45
sorenNot at all.21:45
dendrobatesberendt: you might be surprised21:45
johnpurswift uses sqlite extensively21:46
ttxsoren: about the plan for testing the point release, I thought we could do SRU-like test cases to validate that the bug is fixed21:46
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berendtbut status to nova-manage and the scheduler is more important to me at the moment21:46
ttxsoren: using some 2011.1.1~rc21:47
sorenttx: That *might* work.21:48
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johnpurttx: can we not use the tilde?21:48
sorenttx: I'm just worried about regressions. These are not discrete packages.21:48
ttxjohnpur: that was a metaphoric tilde.21:49
johnpurlol, I just don't want a repeat of tilde-gate!21:49
ttxsoren: I'll give it a thought. Will be difficult to gather lots of resources on testing that post-release21:50
sorenttx: Yes, it will.21:50
ttxso i'd rather be conservative in what we accept to land21:50
sorenThat's part of my reservation about point releases.21:51
ttxok, time to wrap up, let's continue the open discussion on #openstack if needed21:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Meetings: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/"21:52
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 15 21:52:21 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:52
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-02-15-21.01.html21:52
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-02-15-21.01.txt21:52
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-02-15-21.01.log.html21:52
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ttxThanks everyone21:52
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