Tuesday, 2011-06-21

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termie... and meeting?19:00
_0x44Testing and CI? I'm for it.19:01
mtaylorhey all19:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 21 19:02:12 2011 UTC.  The chair is mtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.19:02
mtaylor#topic Meeting Overview19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Meeting Overview"19:02
mtaylor#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CITeamMeeting19:02
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mtaylormorning jaypipes19:02
jaypipesmtaylor: afternoon :)19:03
mtaylorjaypipes: just pasted in http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CITeamMeeting which has today's agenda19:03
mtaylorand I figure we can vamp for a moment or two and see who shows up19:03
jaypipesmtaylor: I'm casually listening in...19:03
* mtaylor doesn't believe that jaypipes does _anything_ casually19:04
jaypipesmtaylor: heh, sure I do :)19:04
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mtaylorhey dprince19:05
jaypipesdprince: afternoon19:05
msinhorehello all19:05
mtaylorhi msinhore19:06
msinhoreI'm from Brazil from globo.com19:06
mtayloroh sweet! welcome!19:06
msinhorewe will help with the development19:06
mtayloror should I say bom bia19:06
mtayloror should I say bom dia19:06
mtaylor(I can't type)19:06
msinhoreand this is my first meeting with you all19:06
mtaylorhappy to have you.19:07
msinhorenice, but now is afternoomn :)19:07
msinhorebom dia is good morning19:07
msinhoreonly to ajust it :)19:07
msinhorenow is boa tarde19:07
mtaylorgah. I really need to get my Portuguese up to speed...19:07
mtaylorso - with that - let's get this puppy going19:08
mtaylor#topic Actions from last meeting19:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting"19:08
mtaylordprince: any luck with/time to work on a smokestack job for the openstack jenkins?19:08
dprincemtaylor: haven't got to it yet.19:08
dprincemtaylor: on that front I'd like to sync up w/ you offline about the Jenkins box. Who has access. etc.19:09
mtaylorcool. happy to chat about that19:09
msinhoredo you have some stuff now about the dashboard?19:09
dprincemtaylor: Actually copying it over is probably easy enough for me but I'd like to have at least a couple people in the know on how it is configured.19:09
mtaylordprince: ++19:10
dprincemytaylor: can you skype or chat tomorrow in the AM?19:10
mtaylordprince: I have a dentist appointment at 10am Pacific, other than that, I'm free19:10
dprincemtaylor: ^^19:10
dprincedidn't mean to imply I owned you (mytaylor).19:10
dprincemust of been thinking of me guitar.19:10
mtayloryou wanna do 9am PDT?19:11
dprincemtaylor: sure.19:11
mtaylorcool. done19:11
mtaylorI'm gonna put you down again for the same thing19:12
mtaylor#action dprince smokestack jenkins job19:12
mtaylorjust so as that we can keep track of it19:12
mtaylornext thing from last time was me getting the pxe booting of the bare hardware integrated with jenkins19:13
mtaylorwhich is also not finished - have been fighting a little bit with some odd ILO systems on the boxes- but we're nearly done with having all of the pxe stuff happy - at which point the jenkins job is a cinch19:13
heckjmtaylor: I missed the last meeting - what are we driving from PXYE with jenkins?19:13
mtaylorI should have that done by friday at the latest (going to the datacenter on friday)19:13
mtaylorheckj: ah - so...19:14
mtaylorwe have a set of 10 real machines that we are going to use to test full installs of openstack19:14
mtaylorthe generalized idea is "reinstall machines - install openstack - run tests"19:14
mtaylorand of course, to have that triggered from/integrated with jenkins19:15
heckjmtaylor: ah, excellent, thank you19:15
mtaylorbut - as I did _not_ finish my task from last week - I will re-action myself as well19:16
mtaylor#action mtaylor jenkins job for the PXE boot goodness19:16
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mtaylorand the last thing from last week was that I was going to verify what termie said regarding roundabout triggering jenkins jobs, and yes, he was in fact right19:16
mtaylorso that's good to know19:17
_0x44What did termie say about roundabout triggering jenkins jobs?19:17
mtaylorthat it did19:17
mtaylorwhich is lovely, and definitely an improvement over how tarmac does it19:18
_0x44Why was that in question? I thought we discused that at the summit?19:18
* _0x44 was unaware of these meetings.19:18
mtaylorpurely brainfart19:18
_0x44Ah ok, was confused :)19:19
_0x44I'll pipe down now19:19
termie_0x44: you should stay, you can have my spot19:20
_0x44termie: I'm sticking around19:20
mtaylorso - moving merrily along...19:20
mtaylor#topic Addition of rpm/yum building to Jenkins19:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Addition of rpm/yum building to Jenkins"19:20
mtaylorwe're currently building debs with every push and with releases ... as much as I'd love it if all the world was on debian/ubuntu, that's obviously not the case19:21
mtaylorso to be good citizens, we should probalby be making rpms as well, yeah?19:21
mtayloras I understand it, there's somebody with spec files out there somewhere19:21
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heckjmtaylor: grid dynamics folks have it19:22
mtaylorand also the guys from Novell/MSFT Interop Lab (I need a shorter name for that)19:22
mtaylorheckj: yes! that's them19:22
heckjmtaylor: They're periodically populating a YUM repo at http://yum.griddynamics.net/19:22
mtaylorthe NMIL guys were suggesting using the OpenSuSE Build Service in a similar manner to how we use PPAs for debs19:22
mtaylor#link https://github.com/griddynamics/openstack-rhel19:23
mtaylor#link http://yum.griddynamics.net/19:23
heckjlooks like they have a jenkins build doing that already19:23
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mtaylorgreat. well - I'd like to get that integrated in to our process so that we can produce some that come from a reasonably expected place19:23
mtaylorand perhaps make a yum.openstack.org19:23
mtaylorunless there are huge amounts of dissent or angst19:24
heckjI think it would be an excellent central resource19:24
heckjmaybe fork their repo into openstack/openstack-rhel for the pieces and go from there?19:25
mtaylorcertainly not a bad idea19:25
naticentral resource++19:25
msinhorenice port the openstack to rpm package.19:25
mtaylor#action mtaylor fork griddynamics/openstack-rhel into openstack/openstack-rhel19:25
msinhoreit will works only with opensuse or with rhel and centos?19:26
mtaylorhrm. that should imply actually doing something with it19:26
mtayloroh well19:26
mtaylorwell... that brings us back to OBS - does anyone have any feelings about the OpenSuSE Build Service?19:26
heckjmsinhore: from the notes from GridDynamics, I think it's focused on RHEL first, probably CentOS - no idea about OpenSuSE19:26
mtaylorI believe we have a person at Novell who is happy to get us set up with a job building rpms for all their distros there19:26
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mtayloror - let me re-phrase - is there anyone who would be opposed to having the novell guy get that set up and having our jenkins trigger that as well?19:28
mtaylorsweet. everyone is so agreeable!19:28
heckji guess...19:29
mtaylor#action talk with Novel/MSFT Interop guys about an OBS build profile run from our jenkins19:29
natiI agreed :)19:29
mtaylorhrm. I can't type - that should be an action for me ...19:29
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mtaylor#topic rPath integration19:29
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mtaylorThe fine folks at rPath are building OpenStack images and are internally testing them by driving a cobbler set up to install those images on to bare metal from jenkins19:30
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mtaylorso we had a chat about putting an rPath builder on our cobbler box and adding a jenkins job to deploy/test against those as well  - which would get us some decent coverage for RH stuff in addition to our ubuntu-based stuff19:31
heckjnice - are they aiming to provide openstack virtual appliance images with rPath then?19:31
mtaylornot really a crapton of action here- just really wanted to get it in people's head that this is available and on the list of stuff we're hoping to test19:32
heckjIt would be really nice to have a nova-all-in-one and swift-all-in-one preconfigured image for people to play with19:32
heckjwho from rPath is doing the work? (i.e. our contact)?19:33
mtaylorand I've got a todo list item for this week to chat with him again about coordinating how he can do that work19:33
mtaylor#action mtaylor coordinate with Mihai from rPath to get him what he needs for getting the rPath builder up and going19:34
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mtaylorone more thing ... then we'll be at open discussion (we're making much better time than last week!)19:34
mtaylor#topic Integration of HyperV Lab machines19:35
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mtaylorin addition to us doing Ubuntu installs and rPath doing rPath installs (and somewhere in there making sure that we test both xen and kvm)19:35
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mtaylorwe've got an offer from the Novel/MSFT guys of a lab of HyperV machines19:36
mtaylorso basically the idea is to have them give access to a single machine that can be the jenkins slave - and then on that machine they can put the stuff in place to deploy openstack builds on to their machines and test them19:37
mtayloras I know zilch about deploying/using anything surrounding hyperv, that's going to be squarely on them - but I'm pretty stoked that we can potentially get some builders up and running and making sure stuff works there19:38
heckjmtaylor: +1 - the more active testing the better19:38
johnpurthose guys are really good sysadmins, i know they can do this19:38
mtaylor#action mtaylor coordinate HyperV lab builders with Peter Pouliot from Novell/MSFT Interop Lab19:38
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mtaylorI'm sort of hoping they do their deploys with baracus - if for no other reason than that I think it would fun to see that up and running19:39
mtaylorbut totally their call19:39
johnpurare any of those guys in this meeting?19:39
mtaylordoesn't seem like it19:39
mtaylorprimeministerp is Peter19:40
johnpurif not, we should ping priministerp and let him know about it19:40
mtayloryeah - we chatted about last week's meeting but he couldn't make it19:40
mtaylorand with that...19:40
mtaylor#topic Open Discussion19:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion"19:40
mtayloranybody got anything they want to bring up - and/or punch me in the face about :)19:41
_0x44mtaylor: You and termie mentioned at one point in time needing modifications to roundabout, any updates on that?19:41
_0x44Maybe s/and termie//...19:41
mtaylor_0x44: well, the one we would/might need would be pending discussions with the github folks regarding pull request state19:42
johnpurmtaylor: any discussion or volunteers to help test the other hypervisors? particularly the vmware and lxc variants...19:42
johnpurit would be cool to have full coverage :)19:43
heckjI might have some needs to spin up LXC nodes with nova components in them - not entirely clear yet19:43
_0x44mtaylor: That would be firing merges on state transition instead of text lgtm?19:43
mtaylor_0x44: although I still want the logic/mechanism that you did for roundabout as a jenkins plugin rather than an external program - but that's sort of a slightly different discussion19:43
mtaylor_0x44: yes19:43
heckjHow do we want to set up for expansion: jenkins slaves running at different locations?19:43
mtaylor_0x44: I can't imagine that will be a hard change to make on your side :)19:44
johnpurfor esx and vsphere maybe we can talk to citrix/ewanmellor...19:44
mtaylorjohnpur: I havne't heard anything specific from anyone19:44
mtaylorheckj: not sure I fully follow the question?19:44
_0x44mtaylor: Having more states would actually speed up roundabout considerably (since it currently has to grab all the messages for each pull-request to determine if they're approved)...19:45
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johnpurmtaylor: maybe an action item?19:45
mtaylor_0x44: yes... I think it'll be win all the way around19:45
mtaylorjohnpur: to reach out to ewanmellor at the least for esx/vsphere?19:45
heckjmtaylor: as we add components, distros, other hypervisors with different ways of doing things, are we planning on expanding to have a master jenkins instance and slaves running those various builds/tests?19:46
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mtaylorheckj: ah. YES19:46
mtaylordefinitely adding more slaves19:46
mtaylorand then where appropriate/where we can adding dynamic cloud-server slaves for parallelism19:46
mtaylorobviously - for things like "test deploying this across a bunch of bare metal" we will be limited by actual existence of bare metal19:47
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johnpurmtaylor: yes. and to solicit help from the community on getting lxc hooked into the CI mesh. might need to add this to the rackspace pile, if no-one else steps up?19:47
mtaylorbut, as a for instance, soren just set up some chroots to start running unittests in - eventually those can be replaced with cloud servers and we can have more than one go at a time19:47
mtaylorjohnpur: ++19:48
mtaylor#action mtaylor ping ewanmellor about testing esx and vsphere19:48
mtaylor#action mtaylor ping community at large about lxc testing19:48
mtaylormsinhore: is there anything specific globo.com wants or is looking at in terms of CI and testing?19:49
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mtaylormsinhore: or, (more importantly to me personally) any specific thing you care about enough that you want to put people working on :)19:49
johnpurmtaylor: btw, the reddwarf project at Rackspace is using openvz containers... might be worth a reach out to them regarding openvz/lxc testing.19:51
mtaylorooh. and they're rax too19:52
mtaylor#action mtaylor ping reddwarf team about openvx/lxc testing19:52
mtayloranything else from folks?19:54
heckjall good here19:55
mtaylorgreat. thanks everybody!19:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Meetings: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/"19:55
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 21 19:55:19 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:55
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-06-21-19.02.html19:55
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-06-21-19.02.txt19:55
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-06-21-19.02.log.html19:55
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notmynametime for fun ;-)19:59
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ttxwe have agenda items for a lifetime of meetings in the backlog20:00
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openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 21 20:00:13 2011 UTC.  The chair is jbryce. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.20:00
johnpurttx: job security?20:00
jbrycei see notmyname, ttx, johnpur ... who else is here?20:00
jbrycehttp://wiki.openstack.org/Governance/PPB - Agenda20:00
ttxjohnpur: who needs job security ? This is cloud, you know :)20:00
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devcamcarhey all20:01
ttxsebastianstadil: around ?20:01
johnpurhow about Ziad or any of the Keystone guys?20:02
sebastianstadilttx: yep20:02
sorenjohnpur: 20:01 < zns> ziad20:02
jbrycejohnpur: zns = ziad20:02
ttxmissing ewan, jesse, josh, dendrobates20:03
notmynamejust to throw this out there....answering item 5 on the agenda may in fact answer some of the earlier items on the agenda20:03
ttxeday: ?20:03
jbryceok cool...that gives us enough. let's get started20:03
sorennotmyname: How do you figure that?20:03
jbrycenotmyname: not sure i follow?20:03
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jbrycethere were no previous action items from last time except for sebastianstadil and devcamcar to catch up and see if there were opportunities to collaborate20:04
devcamcarso to that end, my team spent several days evaluating scalr with the goal of being able to use it as a backend within dashboard20:04
devcamcarwe spent a great deal of time comparing both scalr and canonical's ensemble project20:05
jbrycenotmyname: i know you'd like to knock #5 out more urgently, but i think we owe it to devcamcar to review dashboard. i think #5 could easily take up the entire meeting... what if we do dashboard and then #5 before keystone?20:05
devcamcarin the end, we decided not to move forward with scalr as a backend for a number of technical reasons20:05
sebastianstadilmost of them valid, I might add20:05
jaypipesdevcamcar: could you elaborate a bit on that?20:05
notmynamejbryce: I think there are issues about accepting projects that answering questions of project autonomy help solve (the autonomy issue is more pressing to me than code hosting)20:06
johnpurjbryce: i think keystone may be a slam dunk... i would like to get to it this week if possible... so we can get the openstack packaging and other resources working on it20:06
devcamcarjaypipes: mostly architectural, scalr is designed to be a standalone system and it would require a large effort to refactor it to separate its various components20:06
devcamcarat the end of the day, it's just not designed to work the way dashboard would need it to20:07
jaypipessebastianstadil: you concur with that?20:07
devcamcari have a document with a lot of detail that i sent to sebastian20:07
sebastianstadiljaypipes: Sort of20:07
johnpurwow /me is disappointed20:07
jaypipesdevcamcar: is that document available online? or will it be?20:07
sebastianstadiljaypipes: Scalr is designed to make the management of web applications on IaaS easy20:08
devcamcarjaypipes: i can make it available now20:08
sebastianstadiljaypipes: As such, there are a lot of pieces that need to be tightly integrated. For example mysql failure -> dns update20:08
johnpurare we back to evaluating scalr on its own merits as a project?20:09
sebastianstadiljohnpur: I would assume so20:09
jaypipesjohnpur: I believe so.20:09
ttxjohnpur: wit hpotential overlap in, say, launching instances20:09
jesse__ttx: many things have overlap with that :)20:09
sebastianstadilttx: Launching instances is the least of our concerns20:09
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jaypipesjesse__: like what?20:10
devcamcari will share the doc momentarily20:10
ttxjesse__, sebastianstadil: right, but two separate web UIs to do "stuff".20:10
sebastianstadiljaypipes: console20:10
jesse__ttx: different use cases - dashboard is low level20:10
sebastianstadilttx: correct20:10
sebastianstadiljesse__: correct20:10
jbrycethe request last week from several was to go ahead and have devin present before voting on either. i think we should proceed with that.20:10
jaypipessebastianstadil: ok.20:10
johnpurttx: the dashboard is example UI... most deployments will update/replace it to present their view of UX20:11
sebastianstadiljbryce: agreed20:11
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jbryce#topic Dashboard incubation review20:11
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jbrycehttp://wiki.openstack.org/Projects/IncubatorApplication/OpenStackDashboard - Dashboard's application20:11
johnpurwhereas the scalr UI would be used out of the box, i assume20:12
ttxjohnpur: dashboard is a django lib with a ref implementation. I expetc most deployments to replace the UI, but still use the django lib20:12
devcamcarttx: correct20:12
ttxjohnpur: and I admit I kinda like that split.20:12
ttx"do one thing and do it well"20:12
johnpurttx: right. that is why having the linkage at the lib level with the autoscaling and service restart, etc. functions of scalr is interesting.20:13
sebastianstadilttx: "one thing" can actually be many things, but yes, you are right20:13
ttxjohnpur: would have been interesing, yes.20:13
jesse__the design of the dashboard will allow extensions (panels) to be added ... so someone could add a panel for cloudpipe or scalr technically20:13
johnpurttx: this assumes some level of guest integration20:13
sebastianstadiljesse__: I don't follow20:14
jaypipesmy vote on dashboard is the same as last week, for reasons I stated last week. I love it, but I don't believe it should be a core project, because it does not provide it's own service API. It uses the APIs of other core projects.20:14
devcamcarhate to be a stickler20:14
devcamcarbut can we choose a topic?20:14
sebastianstadiljaypipes: Very good point20:14
jbrycedoes anyone have specific questions for devcamcar around dashboard?20:14
sebastianstadiljaypipes: something to build more on top of20:14
jesse__jaypipes: it doesn't have HTTP apis, but it does have django apis20:15
jesse__jaypipes: and can be built on top of20:15
jaypipesdevcamcar: this is NOT to say I don't care for the dashboard. Quite the opposite. I simply feel that "OpenStack core project" isn't the right place for it. And, yes, I know I'm in the minority :)20:15
johnpurthe question is: shouls OpenStack have an example UI and supporting library that shows how to build UX on top of the core components?20:15
johnpuri think yes20:16
ttxI see value in having dashboard tightly copled to the rest of core projects, so that it exhibits the latest features20:16
jaypipesjohnpur: I guess I feel that it should *not*. That service APIs should be in the core of OpenStack, and OpenStack applications build on those core projects by using the service APIs to construct applications (GUI or non-GUI)20:16
jbrycejohnpur, ttx: ++20:16
ttxhtat should be facilitated by having it as a core project, I think20:16
sebastianstadiljohnpur: My concern is that OpenStack is late to the game, AWS has a huge head start in mindshare, marketshare, and development velocity20:16
vishyI don't think openstack is complete without an example web dashboard20:17
devcamcarthe dashboard is referenced in a number of places, and has been the unofficial face of openstack for some time20:17
sebastianstadiljohnpur: I personally would like to avoid a repeat of the Microsoft hegemony of the 90s, and would like to see FLOSS succeed as an alternative. If possible even a superior choice.20:17
sorenI understand jaypipes' concern, but we lack a way to let the world know "this is the canonical web ui for openstack", don't we?20:17
soren...other than making it core.20:17
jbrycei think that having a dashboard is critical to make all the projects accessible and more usable to the majority of people who would be deploying it20:17
johnpurjaypipes: don't disagree, but OS is already hard enough to approach20:17
sebastianstadiljohnpur: Scalr is a rather mature software project, tested over by thousands of users, hundreds of thousands of instances, tens of millions of instance hours, and over a billion events20:17
jaypipessoren: yes, that is true enough.20:17
devcamcarand by closely coupling the development of dashboard to core projects, we can have something that is guaranteed to work, follow core project milestones, etc.20:17
ttxdevcamcar: yep.20:18
sorenjaypipes: That's really what I want to address. For dashboard. The discussion around scalr was completely different.20:18
jaypipesjbryce: I don't disagree that dashboard is critical. I guess I'm stuck on the term "core" for it.20:18
sebastianstadiljbryce: entirely agree. Ease of use will help OpenStack adoption faster20:18
vishyjaypipes: how do you feel about 'incubated'? :)20:18
devcamcarjaypipes: i can make the argument that the dashboard itself isn't a "core" compoment, but django-openstack is20:18
jaypipessebastianstadil: and I don't disagree with any of that.20:18
devcamcarwhich is what the dashboard is built on20:19
ttxjaypipes: think "products that need to evolve in parallel" more than "APi providers"20:19
johnpursoren: i quibble a bit with the term "canonical" web UI... the expectation is that deployments will differentiate at this leel. they do, however, need to be shown how to integrate with the core systems.20:19
sebastianstadiljaypipes: my bad20:19
jaypipesvishy: well, since the only end game of incubation is currently "OpenStack core project", I'm a bit turned off by it.20:19
devcamcarand it exposes apis for people or organizations to build their own sites using openstack-dashboard as a reference/example implementation20:19
jaypipesperhaps I'm just advocating for a separation of core services from core applications? not sure...20:19
sorenjohnpur: Poor choice of words. "reference" would probably be more accurate.20:20
johnpurjaypipes: disagree! all incubated projects do not have an end goal of being core.20:20
devcamcarjaypipes: i'd also argue that having a UI that represents all of openstack's features and is closely aligned is of great benefit20:20
jbrycejaypipes: the other end game is not being promoted to core and discontinuing incubation20:20
jaypipesI guess I have to get past my mind's connotation that core == building block.20:20
jbryceincubation is not a guarantee to core20:20
sebastianstadilWhen you want to run a web app, you don't want to deal with the "muck" of apis, you want to get your site running20:20
devcamcarjaypipes: django-openstack is a building block for openstack UI20:20
jaypipesdevcamcar: I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying :)20:20
jbrycefrom the sound of it, if we were to vote on should we have ANY type of ui as a core project, it seems like the majority falls on the affirmative side. but i think the real question is should we pick one/the other/neither now or incubate multiple competing projects and pick at a core promotion time?20:20
sebastianstadilThat's what will get Rackspace an advantage over AWS20:20
johnpurincubation opens up the resources of openstack in terms of CI, packaging, integration.20:20
ttxjaypipes: Good core candidates for me are things that integrate well with other core projects (no overlap), that are central to OpenStack ("product view") and need to evolve in parallel (same release cycle).20:20
sebastianstadiland same for any openstack offering20:21
sorenjbryce: No, but surely it's the goal? It may fail to make it through incubation, but I never thought of incubation as a permanent place for anything.20:21
notmynamejbryce: please don't assume the outcome of a vote before it happens20:21
jaypipesdevcamcar: I'm partly being devil's advocate, partly being a semantic purist (you KNOW I have a tendency to do that!)...20:21
jbrycenotmyname: not even a hypothetical vote that wasn't going to happen. = )20:21
devcamcarjaypipes: hah, i know20:22
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jesse__is jaypipes question the only question?  or are their other questions to address?20:22
devcamcarare there any questions about vision or roadmap?20:22
jaypipesdevcamcar, sebastianstadil: I have an easier time seeing dashboard as a building block than scalr, to be fair.20:22
jbrycesoren: i'm in agreement with you20:23
sorenThe way I'm thinking of it right now is that something like that dashboard is something I think at least some people expect to be part of the "package" when they install Nova, and the fact that it's maintained separately is really just a quirk of some sort.20:23
ttxdevcamcar: no, I thin kthey are pretty clear.20:23
devcamcarsoren: agreed, in fact dashboard is installed with a number of tools, including nova.sh, stackops, etc already20:24
devcamcarit is probably already confusing things20:24
johnpurdevcamcar: if the vision is that django-openstack is directed on a path to be core, and the UI is presented as an example for deployments to modify/replace, i agree.20:24
jaypipessoren: when they install Nova, or when they install OpenStack (the set of core projects)?20:24
sorenjaypipes: Nova.20:24
ttxdevcamcar: I think it boils down to "should an openstack client be part of openstack core"20:24
natiOpenStack core and UI should be installed easy.20:24
jbrycesoren: agreed. this is what i hear when i talk to people who are actually trying to use openstack for real things in various companies20:24
sorenjaypipes: Does it do stuff with !nova? I've not used it for a long time, tbh.20:24
devcamcarjohnpur: exactly, the biggest question here may simply be a question of what the project name should be20:24
jaypipessoren: which leads to the inevitable question: what the heck is openstack if it isn't a cohesive set of projects that can be installed together to form an IaaS solution?20:24
jaypipessoren: yes, glance (at least. not sure about swift)20:25
jesse__soren: it already talks with glance directly, keystone and swift is in progress20:25
sorenjaypipes: I just don't think anyone would be surprised if they found the dashboard shipped in the nova tarball. It just so happens that it's shipped separately.20:25
jesse__jaypipes: since the auth process returns a service catalog, we can show the modules in dashboard that work with the services the token has access to20:25
johnpurgiven devcamcar's definition, i am +1.20:25
jaypipesjesse__: right, and that's brilliant.20:25
jaypipeswhat is "stackops"?20:26
sorenjaypipes: You lost me there, I'm afarid.20:26
sorenafraid, even.20:26
ttxjaypipes: A distribution.20:26
jbrycejaypipes: stackops is a distro20:26
devcamcarjaypipes: a bit off topic, but it's an openstack distribution20:26
johnpurjaypipes: stay on point, please!20:26
ttxI feel like I'm ready to vote on Dashboard.20:27
jaypipessoren: I'll elaborate shortly, when we get into discussion of #5.20:27
jbryceso does anyone have any other specific dashboard questions for devin?20:27
sorenjaypipes: cool beans20:27
* soren is ready to vote20:27
jesse__soren: ++20:27
jbrycelet's vote on scalr first20:27
sebastianstadildevcamcar: Lets say you have 100 instances running, how do you plan on making that manageable?20:28
ttxjbryce: or the two at the same time ?20:28
johnpurto be clear, the vote is to take dashbaord into incubated stage20:28
jbrycettx, soren: i just want to do both votes to have a clear record20:28
sorenI'm ready to vote on dashboard. I even think it's an easy vote. I'm not sure about scalr at all yet.20:28
johnpurjbryce: let's do dash the scalr20:28
ttxjbryce: my vore on scalr depends on the outcome of the vote on Dashboard :)20:28
devcamcarsebastianstadil: we're looking at ensemble20:28
jbryce#topic Vote: Should Dashboard be added as an officially incubated project20:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Vote: Should Dashboard be added as an officially incubated project"20:29
jbrycettx: ?20:29
jbryceany other lurking ppb members?20:30
jaypipesjbryce: no need. quorum reached.20:31
sorennotmyname: Seeing as you didn't really participate in the discussion, would you care to elaborate on why you -1'ed? I understand why jaypipes did, I just want to make sure I understand what other motivations there might be.20:31
jbryce#agreed Dashboard will enter the OpenStack incubation program: 6  +1, 2  -120:31
jaypipesjbryce: 6 to 2.20:31
vishyjoshua had +1 via email if it matters20:31
jbryce#info Joshua McKenty voted +1 on email list20:31
sorenThere's 12 of us, right? If the remaining 4 -1'ed, it would habve been a tie, so yes, it matters.20:32
sorenIf can still count, that is.20:32
jaypipessoren: sorry, yes, you are correct. my bad.20:32
jbrycewe've got 7 - 2 with josh's absentee ballot20:32
sorenjaypipes: np :)20:32
jaypipeswho is missing? this is kinda important to be here for... other than ewan, who?20:33
johnpurjbryce: scalr discussion?20:33
sorenEric and Rick.20:33
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ttxjaypipes: dendrobates, eday, josh, ewan20:33
jbryceall right....scalr20:34
jbryce#topic VOTE: Should Scalr be added as an officially incubated OpenStack project20:34
*** openstack changes topic to "VOTE: Should Scalr be added as an officially incubated OpenStack project"20:34
sorenDid we at some point agre that if we rejected a project, we had to give a clear rationale as to why so that they could work on fixing whatever we thought was broken? Or did I just make that up?20:34
jbrycesoren: i think that was for moving into core20:35
sorenjbryce: Ah. Yes, that makes sense.20:35
* soren is still deliberating20:35
johnpur+1, with the same vision/definition as the dashboard. separte the UI, make it example, and consider the guest agent (and API) as incubated.20:35
ttx-1 until it's complementary to dashboard in some way20:36
sorenttx: Not sure what that means?20:36
sebastianstadilttx: What do you mean20:36
jesse__sebastianstadil: does it already use openstack APIs?20:36
sorenttx: Do you mean "until it doesn't do any of the stuff that dashboard does"?20:36
sebastianstadiljesse__: yes20:37
sorenttx: To avoid overlap?20:37
ttxsoren: I don't like the idea of having two web UIs as a core project20:37
johnpurttx: we are not voting on core20:37
sebastianstadilttx: I think that's missing the point. Trying to come up with an analogy20:37
ttxjohnpur: I still see incubation as "we would like it to become core if it can integrate with the release process"20:37
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vishy-0 I would vote +1 for guest agent apis but as an entire project i don't think it meshes properly with the other components20:38
jbrycejosh mckenty voted -1 by email previously20:38
sebastianstadilFrom my experience, a web UI is only half of the problem20:38
johnpurttx: i am still hopeful that by the time we consider a UI/UX for core status that we have worked out how to integrate all of the underlying functionality. including autoscaling...20:38
ttxi.e. for incubation I judge if it is complementary to the rest of core+incubated20:39
sorenI'm +0. My primary reservation is the language. Had it all been Python, I'd have been all over it.20:39
ttxjohnpur: i.e. I'd probably not consider an alternative to swift for incubation. At least not as long as swift is a core project...20:39
sorenttx: What about lunr? They both store things?20:40
jesse__sebastianstadil: i'm confused how this is openstack if it is really a layer above that can talk with many clouds ..20:40
sorenI know and understand that they're different.20:40
creihtttx: I would disagree, if something better than swift comes along, it should certainly be incubated20:40
sorenSo are scalr and the dashboard.20:40
johnpurttx: hmmm, bold statement... we may see advanced object storage at some time that could replace the current swift implementation.20:41
ttxcreiht: hmm.20:41
jaypipescreiht: ++20:41
sorenjesse__: Several of the existing core components are able to speak to other clouds.20:41
sorenjesse__: Glance, for instance, can be backed by S3.20:41
creihtand that should be true for all of core20:41
ttxcreiht: you're right, might make it easier to pick the "best" projects20:41
sorenjesse__: ...so there's certainly prior art to that sort of thing.20:41
sebastianstadiljesse__: Customers want that, so we added it20:41
sorenBegin extensible is a *good* thing.20:42
ttxok, reverting my vote to -0, same as vishy20:42
jesse__I'm with vish then ... -020:42
jaypipesthis is why I've been saying that PPB should focus its blessing approval on APIs before implementations... ;)20:42
sebastianstadilsoren: It's not like it can't be done...20:42
johnpurha ha, jbryce what does the vote stand at?20:42
sorensebastianstadil: What? Rewrite in Python?20:42
ttxsorry if I'm adjusting my incubation-acceptance metrics live :)20:43
creihtlol, what are even valid voting options?20:43
sebastianstadilsoren: That, and many of the other concerns20:43
creihtmy vote doesn't count, so I vote +LOL20:43
jbrycejohnpur: haha...i was just trying to calculate20:43
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jbryce-1: 320:43
jbryce+1: 120:43
jbryce+0: 120:43
jbryce-0: 320:44
johnpurthe cheese stands alone i guess!20:44
notmynamewhat are the valid voting options? (what does +-0 even mean)20:44
jbryceso 3 against, 1 for, 4 abstentions with varying degrees of positivity20:44
notmynameabstain. ok20:44
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sebastianstadilQuestion: since Scalr has been voted not to be incubated, how can we still help OpenStack succeed?20:45
jbryceand john's +1 was conditional20:45
sorennotmyname: You did not answer my question earlier. Was that intentional?20:46
ttxsebastianstadil: you can prove how useful and complementary you are by being an associated project... and force us to reconsider our opinion.20:46
jbrycesebastianstadil: I think there was some feedback here where it seems like some members would reconsider a vote under certain conditions20:46
notmynamesoren: yes20:46
sorennotmyname: ok20:46
johnpursebastianstadil: i encourage you to take the feedback and look at how Scalr could be "updated" or slightly changed to fit into the OpenStack charter/vision. I believe that UX will be critical to acceptance going forward.20:46
jbrycesebastianstadil: and getting users/community members clamoring for it would influence the thinking20:47
sorensebastianstadil: One thing that would definitely be helpful is providing feedback on API's.20:47
ttxsebastianstadil: and decouple scale logic from presentation so that it's easier to integrate ?20:47
johnpurjbryce: ++20:47
johnpurjbryce: Keystone?20:47
jbryce#agree Scalr is not approved for incubation. 3 against, 1 for, 4 abstentions20:48
ttxI don't think we have enough time to attack #5 today, so yes, keystone++20:48
sorensebastianstadil: Scalr is an important use case. If there's anything in the existing openstack components that makes your life needlessly difficult, we should address that, since you're likely not alone.20:48
jbryce#topic Keyston incubation discussion20:48
*** openstack changes topic to "Keyston incubation discussion"20:48
jbrycehttp://wiki.openstack.org/Projects/IncubatorApplication/Keystone - Keystone incubation application20:48
sebastianstadilsoren: of course20:49
johnpurzns: any words?20:49
znsAny questions?20:49
jaypipeszns: how close are you to finalizing the KeyStone API?20:50
jaypipeszns: I saw today that groups are being removed and made into an extension?20:50
znsjaypipes: pretty close. They have not changed much since June 10th. We'll aim to lock down last minutea when jesse and team are down here next week,20:50
jaypipeszns: ok.20:51
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jesse_zns: before incubation I think we should clean up the implementation - separating rax extensions, user/tenant extensions, and the core api20:51
znsjaypipes: correct. Groups are out of scope for v1. We wanted to keep to minimal scope as we initially stated; which was to focus on existing functionality in nova and Swift. Groups are therefore out and should be proposed as extensions.20:51
jaypipesjesse_: knowing the code, I would agree with that assessment.20:51
vishyjesse_, jaypipes: does that need to be done 'before' incubation?20:52
jaypipesjesse_: though those things are not necessarily something that can't be done during incubation20:52
vishyif so then I vote we push the vote for 1-2 weeks20:52
johnpurjaypipes, jesse_: this delays the CI and packaging integration of keystone, are you ok with that?20:52
znsjesse: the docs and API clearly state what is not core. We can update the implementation.20:52
jaypipesjohnpur: yes. it's already slipped to D3 for Glance anyway.20:52
jaypipesbut as vishy implies, these things can be done in incubation status.20:53
* jaypipes is ready to vote now on keystone20:53
jbryceany additional questions?20:53
jesse_zns: I'm just concerned if a bunch of folks start helping before the clean (I did rough removal of groups and it removed 3k lines) it might get confusing20:53
jaypipesjesse_: don't be concerned about people helping. ;)20:54
znsjesse_: you're almost as familiar with the code as I am. I defer...20:54
jaypipesjesse_: early and often. embrace with hug. :)20:54
znsjesse: (as in defer to you, not differ).. just being clear.20:54
jesse_jaypipes: I'm concerned that people still assume that the backend and api are what keystone is20:55
johnpuri will vote with jesse_ on this20:55
jaypipesjesse_: I'm not quite sure I follow you...20:55
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jbrycejesse_: what is your position? that we should delay a vote?20:55
jesse_jbryce: I personally think the API is important to get finalized - and now that dashbaord is incubating, there are things that we should address in the API20:56
jbrycei think i'm with jaypipes. i don't expect a rush of people to come try contributing to the code just because it gets a new label.20:56
jesse_my concern is that people focusing on the implementation instead of the API and interfaces between keystone and projects20:57
znsjesse_: the API for other projects are being finalized still. I don't think that's a criteria for incubation...20:57
jaypipesjesse_: personally, I've *only* been focused on the API (and thus the slew of reported bugs about it ;)20:58
znsjesse_: that's no different than any other core project forming an API or changing an implementation.20:58
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jbrycetime check: we have 2 minutes20:58
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jaypipesjesse_: incubation will give more eyeballs on both the API and the implementation. I think that is a good thing.20:58
jesse_let's vote then?20:58
jbrycevote or delay?20:58
jbrycevote it is20:59
znsjaypipes: +120:59
jaypipeskeystone fits what I consider to be a core service better than anything else so far.20:59
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jaypipes+1 from me.20:59
jbryce#topic VOTE: Should Keystone be added as an officially incubated OpenStack project20:59
*** openstack changes topic to "VOTE: Should Keystone be added as an officially incubated OpenStack project"20:59
ttx+1: since we already have resources working on integrating it in core projects, sounds like incubation is the right place for it20:59
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jesse_-1 just because I feel we need to do more before we join incubation ... but I'm going to be helping with it either way20:59
vishynotmyname: your strategy of saying as little as possible so we could make it to number 5 almost worked... :)21:00
jaypipessoren: ?21:00
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jbryce#agreed Keystone is approved for incubation: 6 +1's, 2 -1's21:00
jbryceok...that's time21:00
ttxjbryce: endmeeting :)21:00
jbrycethanks guys21:00
creihtvishy: the opposite could be said as well ;)21:01
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jbrycenotmyname: you're the top agenda item for next week21:01
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*** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Meetings: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/"21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 21 21:01:07 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-06-21-20.00.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-06-21-20.00.txt21:01
znsjesse_: thanks for helping (and continuing to). WIll be happy to address concerns and work on the API with you.21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-06-21-20.00.log.html21:01
znsThanks All!21:01
ttxOk, time for the OpenStack general team meeting !21:01
jesse_zns: I know we will :)  it isn't something bad against anyone21:01
vishyafk 3 min changing locations21:01
znsjesse_: :-)21:01
notmynamejbryce: I'd prefer for the discussion to be more around project autonomy rather than particulars of code hosting.21:01
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jbrycenotmyname: i'll update the agenda with that21:02
notmynamejbryce: thanks21:02
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ttxjbryce: you can push my item on code hosting below notmyname's one21:02
jbrycettx: roger21:02
ttxsince one will influence the other21:02
ttxOK, let's get started, vishy will join us21:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 21 21:03:16 2011 UTC.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.21:03
ttxWelcome to our weekly meeting...21:03
ttxAgenda for today:21:03
ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/TeamMeeting21:03
ttx#topic Actions from previous meeting21:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from previous meeting"21:04
ttx* vishy to get integrate-nova-authn status from anotherjesse21:04
ttxThat was DONE, as we'll see21:04
ttx* glance-core to review in priority https://code.launchpad.net/~jaypipes/glance/bug713154/+merge/5911021:04
ttxjaypipes: this still needs some love, right ?21:04
jaypipesttx: I'll talk about that in glance status part.21:04
ttx#topic Swift status21:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Swift status"21:05
ttx1.4.1 was released yesterday.21:05
ttxnotmyname: plans for 1.4.2 ?21:05
notmynamettx: continuing what was originally scheduled for 1.4.1. Also it depends on the outcome of next week's ppb meeting discussion21:05
jaypipesnotmyname: why?21:06
notmynamenothing to report now other than what's on LP21:06
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notmynameI have reached out to some deployers to get feedback for swift and make sure needs are met21:06
ttxnotmyname: Other announcements or comments ?21:06
notmynamejaypipes: code hosting21:06
notmynamettx: no, I don't think so21:07
jaypipesnotmyname: that affects what is in 1.4.2?21:07
notmynamejaypipes: it affects from where 1.4.2 will be released21:07
* jaypipes lost on that one...21:08
jaypipesmakes no sense to me.21:08
mtaylortarballs will still go on launchpad no matter where VCS is stored - so I'm lost as well21:08
jaypipesalright, move on then... we can discuss offline on ppb list.21:09
ttxother questions ?21:09
ttx#topic Glance status21:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Glance status"21:10
ttxjaypipes: Hi!21:10
ttxdiablo-2 is targeted for June 30 release, with a release branch cut at the end of Monday, June 2721:10
ttxSo my understanding is that a few things will be deferred ?21:10
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ttxLooking at https://launchpad.net/glance/+milestone/diablo-2, anything that should already be deferred to d3 ?21:11
jaypipesok, so we're moving along nicely with bcwaldon's API improvements (thanks much brian!). keystone integration came to a halt as I didn't have a standard way of starting up Keystone servers during functional testing, so I switched focus to the common daemon project for the time being.21:11
jaypipesI will be deferring keystone integration to D3 due to some stuff that has come up on our team (thx johnpur! :P)21:11
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ttxjaypipes: and SSL, I suppose ?21:11
* mtaylor clones jaypipes 21:11
jaypipesand hopefully getting the common daemon stuff done this week before heading out to SFO to meet with NTT about the FreeCloud project21:12
* ttx forks jaypipes21:12
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jaypipesttx: yes. I will clean the BPs up today.21:12
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ttxjaypipes: I'll talk to you about a new way to handle "Low" stuff.21:12
jaypipesttx: had a great webinar today on Glance with james weir from UShareSoft. good feedback from users.21:12
jaypipesttx: coolio.21:12
ttxjaypipes: basically keep it untargeted and just target it retrospectively if it happens to be done.21:13
jaypipesttx: other than that, want to discuss that bug 713154.21:13
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 713154 in glance "S3 Backend doesn't support POST either." [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71315421:13
ttxWho could help with that ?21:13
jaypipesso, a bug in webob <=1.0.7 broke chunked transfer encoding. this bug was highlighted by the changes to the S3 driver in that bug's merge proposal.21:13
jaypipessince the bug came up, the guys over at webob have now released a fixed 1.0.8 and that has hit all the ubuntu targets.21:14
jaypipeswith 1.0.8 required, that S3 bug fix and patch should be able to go through now.21:14
jaypipesI'll be testing with smokestack tomorrow and hopefully we'll get it into fix committed into D2.21:15
jaypipesthat's all from glance.21:15
ttxAny question ?21:15
ttxjaypipes: you also have lots of D2-targeted bugs, might be god to make a pass on them to check which really are milestone-critical.21:16
jaypipesttx: will do.21:16
ttx#topic Nova status21:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova status"21:16
ttxdiablo-2 is also targeted for June 30 release, with a release branch cut at the end of Monday, June 2721:16
ttxThat leaves less than a week to merge things, and we still have quite a few incomplete targeted features21:16
ttxso we should have a look at what's not likely to make it and defer :)21:17
vishyThanks to everyone who has been coding/merging/reviewing while i was on vacation21:17
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vishya lot got merged recently21:17
ttxvishy: don't do that again. It hurts.21:17
ttx#link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/diablo-221:17
soren#ACTION vishy to not go on holiday21:17
sorenDarn it.21:17
ttx* https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/integrate-nova-authn (anotherjesse)21:17
ttxvishy: So that was marked implemented, but there is no code link, could you explain what was done and what's left to do ?21:17
jesse_vishy: do you want to remove no db?21:17
ttxjesse_: I'll come to it21:18
jesse_ttx: for authn-authz we have admin-ness & project/user delegated to keystone21:18
vishythe middleware is in the keystone project21:18
jesse_and a paste config to show it in use21:18
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ttxvishy: oh, ok.21:19
ttxjesse_: would be good to drop some email/blogpost/wikipage on how to test that ?21:19
jesse_ttx: will do - we've been working through some issues with how many-to-many work21:19
ttxvishy: the remaining work is covered by the "finalize Auth" blueprint ?21:20
jesse_within the backend21:20
jesse_we've not really focused on authz yet - since the openstack api never had rbac21:20
ttxvishy: or do we need more ?21:20
vishyttx: we could probably use a couple of middling blueprints21:20
ttxvishy: yes, that's what i was thinking. I guess work on this is continuous.21:21
jesse_also with respect to the integration - right now openstack tokens don't send a ID and Name separately21:21
jesse_we're still talking through that21:21
ttx* https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/no-db-messaging (vishy)21:21
vishyec2_compatibility, rename project -> tenant, migrations, authz, remove auth manager are the steps21:21
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ttxvishy: you can track the steps in the blueprint whiteboard.. or using separate blueprints. Whatever makes you more comfortable.21:22
vishyso that won't make it d2, I'm debating between pushing it and just cancelling it.  I've had lots of discussions with people, and still not convinced that it is the right change21:22
* ttx marsks it "blocked"21:23
vishyi guess lets move it to d3 for now, and I'll make an email to the list with different options and feedback21:23
ttxok, done21:23
ttx* https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/nova-multi-nic (tr3buchet)21:23
ttxLast time I heard this was deep in testing, but now the merge proposal needs to hit if it is to make it into d221:25
westmaas_mp is in21:25
vishywe need to get this in21:25
_cerberus_He just pushed it back to needs review this morning, but he's out for the day21:25
* ttx checks if all is in it.21:25
vishylots of people are testing and giving feedback21:25
_cerberus_vishy: he's looking for feedback from you, specifically, if you have time to spare21:26
ttxlooks complete. Good.21:26
ttx* https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/boot-from-volume (isaku)21:26
primeministerp1vishy: Question re: network blueprints.. the db fields… Shouldn't we include a guest interface type.. i.e. paravirt vs. emulated, it matters as some hypervisors provide different functionality for each, and the current blueprints (as of last week) didn't reflect this as an option21:26
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ttxLooking at the latest merge prop this looks a bit incomplete...21:26
vishyyes i will be looking at it and hopefully helping out with test fixing21:26
primeministerp1sorry guys.. before we move on21:26
primeministerp1question for vishy above..21:27
vishyprimeminsterp1: lets talk about that after the meeting21:27
vishyboot from volume is coming in stages21:27
vishyi think first stage is in and second is proposed21:27
vishyprobably we will need a third stage before it is "complete"21:28
ttxthe second is proposed but it says that it's for comments only, as it is incomplete21:28
ttxso it looks like D3 is a better target21:28
ttxgood targeting helps to focus review resources on D2 targets.21:28
vishyalthough the current version works for a limited use case afaik21:28
ttx#action ttx to talk to isaku about D3 retargeting of boot-from-volumes21:29
ttx* https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/unittest-examples (westmaas)21:29
westmaas_vishy: you want us to just publish that on the list?21:29
vishyyes please21:29
westmaas_alrighty, will do it this week21:30
vishyi think we should either link to it in the docs or put the whole thing there21:30
ttx* https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/openstack-api-floating-ips (reldan)21:30
westmaas_which docs?21:30
annegentlevishy: I think testing info can go on the wiki - it's project info21:30
vishynova dev docs21:31
annegentleor it could go on nova.openstack.org21:31
annegentlewestmaas_: I can work with you to get it in the nova dev docs = nova.openstack.org21:31
vishyit is build from then nova source tree, so we can just propose it in21:31
westmaas_I'd love to get feedback too.  this isn't nova specific either21:31
ttxnobody from griddynamics around -- vishy do you have an updated status for the floating-ips stuff ?21:32
westmaas_annegentle: I'll work with you later21:32
vishythere was a merge proposal, no?21:32
annegentlewestmaas_: sounds good21:32
ttxno, just a branch link.21:32
vishyah you're right21:33
vishyno i don't have status on that one21:33
msinhoreguys, only to introduce me to the team: My name is Marco, I'm working as a leader of a private cloud project in Globo.com / Brazil. We've a system running on top of XCP with some layers (backend, queue, monitoring services, network services, load balancers services and a nice frontend integration all of these stuffs in a web 2.0 web interface) and we will planning to migrate all to use openstack and we will open the source of workflow f21:33
ttxok, will try to get updated status on that21:33
ttx#action ttx to query status on floating-ips21:33
ttx* https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/testing-jenkins-integration (mtaylor)21:34
msinhoreI'm talking for a some days with Stephen Spector and I need map the guys working with priv cloud components to interact with them to align our next step with them.21:34
vishymtaylor: promised to divide that up into a couple other blueprints21:34
ttxmtaylor: do it dude :)21:35
mtaylorvishy, ttx: yeah. I got sucked in to a few other things. I will still divide that up in ot other blueprints21:35
ttx* https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/provider-firewall (xtoddx)21:35
* mtaylor flagellates self21:35
msinhoreplease, if someone want to know more about the project contact me: marco.sinhoreli@corp.globo.com and I will be glad to explain about our plan and components into the system.21:35
vishytodd is working on that21:35
ttxlooks like the scope of that one grew from d1 to d2, is it reasonable to get that all in d2 ?21:35
vishyttx: i think so21:36
vishyit just was missing a couple of tests i think21:36
ttx* https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/schedule-instances-on-heterogeneous-architectures (lorin)21:36
ttx(or anyone at USC-ISI)21:36
vishyseems highly doubtful that will make this milestone21:37
ttxunsure if the merge prop they have in work in progress actually covers everything they had in mind.21:38
ttxvishy: ok, will hunt them down for more status.21:38
ttx#action ttx to get updated status on heterogeneous-arch bp21:38
ttx* https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/system-usage-records (mdragon)21:38
ttx(last one)21:38
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ttxstarted, no code link, so I don't really know.21:39
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ttxpvo: do you ?21:39
dragondmyah ther is code for that21:39
dragondmIt just needs to be re-mergeds21:39
pvosorry, paging back in.21:39
dragondmand merge-prop'ed21:40
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pvoshould be ok for d2, right dragon?21:40
ttxdragondm: cool! Thanks.21:40
ttxOn another subject, are there any blocking bugs that we should make milestone-critical ?21:40
ttxIf you see any, just ping me or vishy21:41
ttxvishy: anything else you wanted to mention ?21:41
vishyi think i noticed a few over the past week.  I'll see if any haven't been addressed yet21:41
ttxvishy: we just need to make sure that whatever we target to the milestone, has an assignee on it21:42
vishyttx: no21:42
ttxno point in adding bugs there if nobody commits to trying to fix them.21:42
ttxQuestions for the Nova PTL ?21:42
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ttx#topic Announce Name of E21:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Announce Name of E"21:43
ttxSo the winner is...21:43
ttxEssex: 32 votes, beats Exeter (26 votes). (I lost)21:43
vishyare the guys working on esx here?21:44
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jamesurquhartOK to announce on Twitter?21:45
ttxjamesurquhart: I just did :P21:45
jamesurquhartMe too. RT race is on! ;)21:45
ttxjamesurquhart: pretty sure you'll win.21:45
vishymy epsom lost21:45
ttxjamesurquhart: as you've like 20 times more followers than I do.21:46
ttxvishy: I voted "Exeter". wtf voted Essex ?21:47
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vishyit was bound to win as it has 'sex' in it21:47
salv-orlandome :-)21:47
sorenI would have voted "Effing" if given the chance.21:47
vishythe voters are a bunch of geeks after all :)21:47
sorenThat was my favourite21:47
vishysoren: +121:47
ttxsoren: if you could only prove that Effing was somewhere near Boston, with any definition of near.21:47
ttxlike a fake wikipedia page.21:48
termiepretty effing close to boston21:48
ttxtermie: maybe "F" should be called "effing".21:48
primeministerp1I like essex21:48
primeministerp1and voted that way… ;)21:48
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ttx#topic Open discussion21:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion"21:49
primeministerp1so i'd like to give an update about the status of openstack on suse21:49
termiehow many chips are there in a large bag of doritos?21:49
sorenprimeministerp1: Go for it.21:49
ttxprimeministerp1: go!21:49
primeministerp1we've begun to organize our packaging efforts21:49
Vekthat's pretty open, termie :P21:49
primeministerp1we now have people contributing time to getting our packages in the OBS up to speed21:50
dragondmtermie: 142. next question.21:50
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vishytermie n * pi where n is the number of licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop21:50
primeministerp1also shortly there should be an appliance in the suse studio market place21:50
primeministerp1to rapidly setup a controller and compute nodes21:51
jamesurquhartHeh. I screwed up, ttx, and didn't use a hash tag. #rookiemistake21:51
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spectorclan_I need some help with why we chose Python as the development language for a Python community promotion we are doing.21:52
sorenprimeministerp1: Is it going to end up in SuSE itself?21:52
primeministerp1for anyone wishing to try the suse bits, they can be located here: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Virtualization:/Cloud:/OpenStack/21:52
primeministerp1no not yet21:52
sorenprimeministerp1: Or are you providing packages outside of SuSE, but for SuSE?21:52
primeministerp1we have just started packaging21:52
spectorclan_Please send me thoughts on Python so I can put together info for the promotin, thanks,21:52
primeministerp1in the obs21:52
vishyprimeministerp1: afk for about half an hour.  talk network stuff then?21:53
primeministerp1soren:  exactly21:53
sorenprimeministerp1: Ok.21:53
ttxprimeministerp1: could you contribute install instructions somewhere on the wiki, that we could integrate whenever I end up refactoring the nova install pages ?21:53
termiespectorclan_: because it was the best21:53
primeministerp1soren: also there's an opensuse mailing list for discussion around our efforts if anyone is interested21:53
primeministerp1also there's an opensuse mailing list for discussion around our efforts if anyone is interested21:53
spectorclan_termie: Need something a bit more detailed. Like "It's not FORTRAN or COBOL"21:53
primeministerp1that was for everyone21:53
termiespectorclan_: i made this whole presentation about that...21:54
Vek"It's not ruby"?21:54
* Vek ducks21:54
primeministerp1opensuse-cloud@opensuse.org is the mailing list address21:54
spectorclan_termie: great, can you send it my way or give me a link! Very helpful21:54
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primeministerp1ttx: we are in the works for doing that21:55
termiespectorclan_: http://blip.tv/pycon-us-videos-2009-2010-2011/pycon-2011-an-open-success-for-the-cloud-openstack-489947821:55
primeministerp1ttx:  Installation documentation21:55
ttxprimeministerp1: ok21:55
sorenprimeministerp1: Sounds good!21:55
creihttermie: - all the ums :)21:55
ttxum um.21:55
termieit mellows out about halfway through :p21:55
Vekclasses on public speaking should have an entire semester dedicated to "de-umming" speech...21:56
ttxok, anything else  before we close ?21:56
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ttxplenary by Hettinger at EuroPython was on "why makes Python awesome". Pretty much all of his points applied to OpenStack in some way.21:57
* pvo &21:58
termieVek: indeed, though in my defense that was largely due to not having slept at all21:58
*** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Meetings: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/"21:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 21 21:58:14 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-06-21-21.03.html21:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-06-21-21.03.txt21:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-06-21-21.03.log.html21:58
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ttxthanks everyone. Let's get those features into D2.21:58
Veksort of reminds me of the time I had to present my project proposal for my astronomy class.21:58
danwenthello netstackers.... glad that the jokes about essex ended in time for us to start on time :)22:00
salv-orlandohi Dan22:01
somikhello all!22:01
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jamesurquhartHey, Dan22:02
ttxdanwent: it's a science. No place for luck.22:02
danwentttx: :)22:02
danwentok, is dendrobates around?22:02
danwentwe've got a lot to cover: http://wiki.openstack.org/Network/Meetings#preview22:03
salv-orlandoafk apparently22:03
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openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 21 22:03:14 2011 UTC.  The chair is danwent. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.22:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.22:03
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danwent#topic netstack status22:03
*** openstack changes topic to "netstack status"22:03
danwentwas hoping to get an update from dendrobates about incubation status22:03
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danwentperhaps he will pop up later and let us know.22:04
danwentany other general nestack topics?22:04
danwent#topic quantum update22:04
*** openstack changes topic to "quantum update"22:04
danwentlot's of stuff here22:04
jamesurquhartdanwent: he's not on IM. Does anyone know if he's back from vacation yet?22:04
danwentswitching from the 'network-service' to 'quantum' project caused some hiccups in merging santhosh's stuff.22:05
danwentjames: he is pretty good about emailing when he can't make it... but i'm not sure22:05
danwentsince we had already reveiwed santhosh's test + pep-8 fixes, we pushed that to network-service, then merged it into quantum22:05
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danwentsince no one has yet to review the api-extensions stuff, we are going to have him re-request a new merge to the lp:quantum branch22:06
danwentany concerns there?22:06
danwent(we'll be talking about extensions more later)22:06
danwent(or rather, next)22:06
salv-orlandodanwent: if you already merged the pep8 fixes into lp:quantum, what I have just approved?22:06
danwentI think somik merged after your approval22:07
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somikmerdanwent: yup22:07
yingagree for api-extension to start a new request22:07
yingthus, we can add comments there22:07
salv-orlandook, I see22:07
danwentsalv-orlando: you ok with that?22:07
danwentthe merge22:07
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salv-orlandodanwent: sure, I just thought I approved some other branch by mistake :-)22:08
danwentI think it happened just in the last 30 minutes or so.22:08
danwentah, no, same one :)22:08
danwentbut good to check22:08
danwentying: yes, agreed.  we definitely want someone from Cisco reviewing that branch.22:08
danwentshifting to the topic of API extensions in general, it seems like things are still a bit up in the air from the thread that was on the mailing list.22:08
danwentFor me, it would be really helpful to have someone work with Jorge and figure out how the code we borrowed from nova maps to the proposal.22:09
danwentany takers?22:10
danwentmmm... this doesn't bode well for the next topic either.22:10
salv-orlandoSantosh would be the ideal taker... is he around?22:10
danwenthe's in india, i think.  Is troy here?22:11
danwentOk, we'll take this one offline.22:11
JameyI think troy and erik are both out today22:11
danwentjamey: ah, thanks.22:12
salv-orlandooh there's the ONF thing today...22:12
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danwentnext topic: salvatore wanted to bring up whether we need to support a model where multiple tenants can own a single network.22:12
danwentI think this also ties into the keystone notion of delegation22:12
danwentwhere one tenant may be able to grant others the ability to attach to a network they own.22:13
Jameyown or attach to it?22:13
carlpCan you define what owning a network means?22:13
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danwentBeing able to change the API object (the name) create and modify ports, including adding/removing attachements.22:13
danwentwould be one definition.22:13
danwentofficially we don't have a definition yet though.22:14
jamesurquhartCan I get a use case?22:14
carlpIt seems to me that each network should have one owner, and the permissions for attaching to ports should be separated out and delegated22:14
carlpFor example "I own network BOB, but you can have access to port 12-24 on it"22:15
salv-orlandoImagine we have two OUs in a company. Finance and Sales for instance. Finance wants to allow sales instances to attach to their network.22:15
JameyThe use case is either B2B apps or community clouds22:15
salv-orlandoJamey: right22:15
danwentIn a logical world, I wonder to what degree they have to be the same network, vs. networks that are just linked.22:15
midodandanwent: my question exactly22:16
salv-orlandodanwent:, midodan: my question too...22:16
danwentI don't really have a strong opinion here, but it would be great if someone who does care about this starts flushing out use cases.22:16
midodanwhy would they need to be on the same network segment?22:16
danwent(either for or against :) )22:16
JameyUntil we offer some sort of L3 routing as a service they would22:17
jamesurquhartI don't see the need. A solution looking for a problem, IMHO.22:17
danwentI will make the broader point that it would be great if someone wanted to take up the broader work of Quantum API authentication and authorization.22:17
carlpI certainly for it, as I can see the use case from a Ceph perspective.  You want access to all the nodes on the backend, so I should grant you access to that network.  Could be solved by routing too, however.22:17
danwentOk, sounds like no one is dying for this, so we can probably table it.22:18
salv-orlandoOr by bridging as well.22:18
primeministerp1why can't we use LACP22:18
danwentif you want to take it and run with it, just holler :)22:18
salv-orlandoI agree with tabling it.22:18
jamesurquhartcarlp: Right. Should be addressed by L3 abstraction, unless there is an airtight use case for doing differently. Again, IMHO.22:18
danwentIs Ryu here?22:18
primeministerp1to just connect into the switch22:18
danwentor perhaps midodan, do you want to give an update on the nova refactoring?22:18
danwentcode is here: https://code.launchpad.net/~midokura/nova/network-refactoring22:19
danwentryu was nice enough to start writing a blueprint to share their current plans and get feedback: http://wiki.openstack.org/network-refactoring22:20
ryu_ishimotoi can do that, right now, we're looking into two main issues:  1. how to launch a VM with network connectivity, and 2. how to handle libvirt XML generation for various interfaces22:20
primeministerp1for the network refactoring22:20
danwentryu: great, i think those are two great areas to focus on.22:20
primeministerp1can we discuss network interface type22:20
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primeministerp1i.e. emul vs. vert22:20
primeministerp1er paravirt22:20
primeministerp1as a field option22:21
primeministerp1in some hypervisors22:21
danwentprimeministerp1: can you explain in more detail?22:21
primeministerp1you get different functionality22:21
danwentis this nova related, or quantum related?22:21
primeministerp1based on the network interface type22:21
midodani think that's Nova related22:21
midodanhypervisor related22:21
primeministerp1believe it's the new bits22:21
primeministerp1sort of22:21
primeministerp1for example22:21
midodanprimeministerp1: i totally agree that should be part of the model22:21
primeministerp1on xen or hyperv you can have paravirt or full virt nics22:21
primeministerp1one is emulated the other paravirt22:22
primeministerp1we need to account for this22:22
primeministerp1on hyperv for example22:22
danwentso the goal is to have this in the nova database along with other info about the vnic?22:22
primeministerp1we can only pxe from a emul device22:22
primeministerp1not the enlightened/paravirt22:22
primeministerp1so in instances22:22
danwentor expose this to customers?22:22
carlpKVM also has virtio NICs vs. emulated NICs.  Emulated NICs have greater compatibility, but the virtio NICs have better performance.22:22
carlpCustomers will need to be able to choose between the two22:22
primeministerp1where we want to have a vm pxe into an iscsi initation22:22
danwentIt definitely makes sense that nova should be able to spin up either type, based on the provider's preference.22:23
primeministerp1we need to start w/ the emul interface22:23
primeministerp1for the connection22:23
danwentand perhaps a provider would expose this to the customer via the nova API (would flavors be used?)22:23
danwentI suspect the best way to resolve this would be to work with the nova team.22:24
midodanthis is a Nova issue22:24
midodanshould be part of the Nova model22:24
danwentprimeministerp1: does that make sense to you?22:24
primeministerp1awesome guys22:24
primeministerp1sounds good to me22:24
primeministerp1as long as we address it22:24
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SumitNaiksatamryu: thanks for starting the nova-refactoring blueprint22:25
danwentok, ryu, just wanted to give you a heads up that we'll be pulling the network-refactoring branch and starting to prototype against it.22:25
SumitNaiksatamis there any progress on "TODO: Decide on how compute communicates with Quantum"22:25
danwentSumit, it would be great if you could prototype your stuff against it too.22:25
ryu_ishimotoSumitNaiksatam: no problem, still need to update it quite a bit22:25
SumitNaiksatamryu: thanks22:25
danwentryu: yes, the code has a simple example of passing an "interface binding" to something that could be quantum.22:26
SumitNaiksatamdanwent: definitely can start prototyping22:26
danwentgood place to start22:26
danwentanything else on nova refactoring?22:26
salv-orlandodanwent: did we put aside only the idea of shared network, or authN/authZ as well?22:26
SumitNaiksatamhowever don't want to go in a completely different direction from what you guys are thinking22:26
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danwentsalv-orlando:  I believe we tabled it, based on lack of interest.  If anyone wants to drive exploring this model more, they're more than welcome to22:27
danwentsalv-orlando: misunderstood22:27
ryu_ishimotodanwent: that's it but let's keep the discussion going offline to iron out the remaining issues.  I will keep updating the wiki22:27
danwentryu: great, thanks.22:27
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danwentsalv-orlando:  I agree, getting someone to spend time on even the basic authn/authz stuff is important.22:27
danwentany volunteers?22:28
salv-orlandodanwent: definitely.22:28
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danwentright now, quantum really only supports a "single tenant" from an auth perspective22:28
salv-orlandoI can volunteer for that. As I've done the basic API work22:28
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danwentall right !22:28
danwentthat would be great.22:28
salv-orlandoit makes sense I do some work on making sure the api has authN/authZ as well.22:28
salv-orlandoI will start by preparing a blueprint and getting in touch with Ziad (Keystone)22:29
danwentplease take ownership of the blueprint.  Let us know how we can help out.22:29
danwentsalv-orlando: perfect22:29
JameyNot single tenant but single owner22:29
danwentJamey: yes22:29
salv-orlandoJamey: 1 network, 1 owner22:29
salv-orlandobut possibly n users, as it happens for public networks22:30
danwentJamey: you can have multiple tenant strings in the URI, that is correct.22:30
danwentI think Jamey is talking about what exists today22:30
danwentyou can technically create multiple tenants22:30
danwentbut there is no auth22:30
JameyI'm thinking of shared networks like the public Internet network22:30
JameyOr management net22:31
danwentah, i get it22:31
salv-orlandoJamey: these kinds of networks are the ones for which I think we need to have both auhN and authZ22:31
danwentYes Jamey, VIFs from multiple tenants may be on a network, but a single auth entity controls the whole network.22:31
danwentcontrols -> owns22:32
salv-orlandoas we have two 2 roles: the owner of the network, which set up the network layout, and the users of the network, which plug interfaces in its ports22:32
danwent(using our terminology from before).22:32
JameyThat's what I meant by single owner22:32
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danwentlots of interesting things to explore here.  look forward to seeing the blueprint :)22:32
salv-orlandoyet, better move to the next topic now, we are already halfway through the meeting!22:33
danwentmoving on to system test + api validation tests.22:33
danwentwe're going to start doing some system testing, but the more people who want to pitch in, the merrier.22:33
danwentif you have thoughts on this, let me know.22:33
carlpdanwent: are you setting up a jenkins for that?22:33
danwentI will be updating the blueprint for this.22:34
danwentcarlp: haven't talked about that yet.22:34
mtaylorI would love it if you'd integrate with the current jenkins instead of setting up a whole new one ...22:35
danwentI think dendrobates was talking to someone about integration into that infrastructure22:35
mtaylorso feel free to ping me whenever22:35
danwentthis is partially tied to our status as an incubated project22:35
danwentmtaylor: thanks.  will do.22:35
* mtaylor wants to make sure that we don't wind up with multiple parallel sets of infrastructure - because that's just fail22:35
danwentI need to explore this in more detail.  Please sign up on the blueprint if you're looking to get involved.22:35
danwentand if you want to drive, by all means :)22:36
danwentthat last message was to everyone, not mtaylor22:36
danwentmtaylor: agreed22:36
mtaylorwell - I want to drive the infrastructure part :)22:36
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danwentgreat.  can you add yourself to the blueprint?22:36
danwentas a watcher?22:37
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danwentor owner, if you want :P22:37
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danwentOk, and the non-system test part of this is that I'd like to review our API unit tests and make sure that we have unit tests that cover all of the corner cases documented in the API spec22:38
salv-orlandook, that's another call for me :-)22:38
danwentawesome, i don't even have to ask :)22:38
bhallsalv-orlando: I'm glad to help with those as well; we can divide it up if you want22:39
salv-orlandobhall: sure, we can talk about this offline22:39
bhallsounds good22:39
danwentand one final note on quantum, i'm looking for guinea pigs who want to test out some docs for how to setup quantum + the OVS plugin on ubuntu.  They're not quite done, but I will send them your way if you're interested.22:40
carlpdanwent: Sign me up!22:40
danwentwould like to get some test eyes on them before sending it out more broadly.22:40
danwentgreat carlp22:40
carlpI have your docs from a few weeks ago, but haven been way to busy to look at them until now22:40
danwentok, anything else for quantum?22:40
danwentcarlp: have done more work since then.  am hoping to automate a lot of the setup.22:41
salv-orlandoon the OVS plugin: do we support multiple servers at the moment?22:41
carlpdanwent: awesome22:41
danwentsalv-orlando: yup22:41
danwentthough i've only tested with a few.22:41
salv-orlandodanwent: I ran the agent plugin but the integration bridge did not pick any physical interface....22:42
danwentyes, as you probably figured out, we hadn't actually used that setup script yet.22:42
danwentI just configured it to use an external bridge.22:42
salv-orlandook so i did the right thing by adding one with ovs-vsctl...22:42
danwentI have a couple of OVS plugin bugfixes queued up as well.22:43
danwenthopefully those will get merged soon though.  Might want to hold off until then :)22:43
danwentsalv-orlando: yup, exactly22:43
danwentsalv-orlando: can sync up offline if you need more details.22:43
salv-orlandodanwent: sure... maybe it would be better to post those bugs on launchpad, if you haven't already done so. This way, we will be aware of this22:43
danwentyeah, agreed :)22:44
danwentanyone from melange or donabe around to provide an update?22:44
carlpI don't have any specific update for Melange22:45
danwent#topic open-discussion22:45
*** openstack changes topic to "open-discussion"22:45
salv-orlandowebex for next meeting?22:45
danwentsince rick and ram are not here, we'll probably delay the webex topic.22:46
danwentanything else?22:46
carlpI was curious about the Melange + Quantum integration topic, any ideas what that was about?22:46
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danwentcarlp: yes, agreed.22:46
danwentI was hoping to get an update on the status of a melange alpha.22:46
danwentI think the high-level plan now is that melange and quantum will be independent "building blocks" that can be used directly via the APIs or by orchtestration components22:47
carlpMe too :)  I know Troy and his team have been working on the IP management part.  Once that was done we were going to dive into the discovery integration.22:47
danwentmelange will likely have the ability to store a quantum network ID associated with a subnet22:47
danwentOk, let's pester troy via email :)22:47
carlpSounds like a plan.22:47
danwentanything else?22:48
*** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Meetings: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/"22:48
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 21 22:48:21 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:48
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-06-21-22.03.html22:48
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-06-21-22.03.txt22:48
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-06-21-22.03.log.html22:48
danwentOk, thanks all22:48
danwentand special thanks to salvatore!22:48
salv-orlandodanwent: my pleasure22:48
salv-orlandotalk to you next week22:48
carlpdanwent: What would you like me to do in order to get those docs from you?22:48
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danwentI already was planning on pinging you based on the previous thread.22:49
danwentwill send you something in the next day or two22:49
carlpdanwent: sounds great, looking forward to iy22:50
carlpit even22:50
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