Monday, 2012-01-09

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annegentleAnyone around for the doc Team meeting?20:02
deshantmi'm here20:02
annegentleGreat, good to see you!20:02
annegentlesorry I'm always 2-3 minutes late20:02
deshantmannegentle: good to see you too!20:02
annegentleI think I'll get started.20:03
openstackMeeting started Mon Jan  9 20:03:16 2012 UTC.  The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.20:03
annegentle#info Agenda at
annegentle#topic New incoming documents20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "New incoming documents"20:03
annegentleI've been talking with collaborators about new docs and have been working on one myself with lots of input and reviews20:04
annegentle#info New install doc with instructions for Cloud Builders packages at
annegentleOnce I get the testing done, which is going slowly, I'll publish it as a standalone document20:05
annegentleI've also been talking to collaborators at HP about putting some docs onto the site, and will keep working on it this month20:05
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annegentleI feel a little bit like I'm just catching up with Diablo and Essex is around the corner.20:05
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annegentleThe third "book" incoming is a Python guide for using the Compute API20:06
deshantmI'd love to take a look20:06
annegentle#info Working with author for a Python guide for using the Compute API20:06
annegentleAnd lastly, I've got a half-done API Quick Start guide in the openstack-manuals repository20:06
deshantmI've started reading through the docs20:07
deshantmI have a few small edits that I haven't pushed anywhere yet20:07
annegentleIdeally the API Quick Start will be linked from api.openstack.org20:07
annegentledeshantm: that would be fabulous, edits for that site usually get reviewed and in quickly so feel free to push 'em20:07
annegentleAs you can see from that list of new incoming docs, still no author for a Xen or XenServer chapter/book.20:08
annegentleSo we still point people to the wiki page at
annegentleAh well.20:08
deshantmwhat is the write process to turn my etherpad notes into something useful?20:08
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annegentleStill time to find that author :)20:08
annegentledeshantm: just like code, send it through the Gerrit process for review20:09
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annegentle and also
deshantmI have this so far, and will continue on it:
annegentleYes, I'd like to get that into openstack-manuals when you think it's ready.20:10
deshantmI have a lot of content from presentations I've done on the topic to incorporate still20:10
annegentledeshantm: yeah, feel free to keep polishing and adding and rounding20:10
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annegentle#topic Making review diffs easier20:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Making review diffs easier"20:11
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annegentleI've gotten feedback that it's tough to compare XML doc differences.20:11
annegentleSo I've started investigating alternatives for the review.20:11
annegentlereviewing comparisons between output rather than input, is one idea20:11
annegentlethis is an example of a diff done with a tool called deltaxml20:12
deshantmthat seems nice20:12
annegentleWanted to bring it to this meeting so people could poke at it a bit and see if it's worth exploring further. It is proprietary software, costing about $2000 for the first 3 years with maintenance costs as well, plus the cost of integrating with Gerrit.20:12
annegentleSo yes, it's costly, proprietary, but it does seem nicer than stuff like this:,sidebyside,2824,1,doc/src/docbkx/openstack-compute-admin/aboutcompute.xml20:13
annegentleI'll shop around the idea to get more input.20:13
annegentleok, on to another topic, source files20:15
annegentle#topic Mixing source content20:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Mixing source content"20:15
deshantmI'm surprised there isn't an open source alternative for the XML diffing20:15
annegentledeshantm: good point, we didn't find any (David Cramer and me) but more eyes looking, the better20:15
annegentleI know that people like RST and asciidoc and markdown for the simplicity of markup.20:16
annegentleAre there any problems with having openstack-manuals have any type of source content?20:16
annegentleI'm thinking about putting markdown and docbook in openstack-manuals as source but still outputting html and pdf. Any thoughts?20:17
deshantmso in addition to the xml stuff?20:17
annegentledeshantm: right, XML for some of the books, markdown for another, and so on.20:18
annegentledeshantm: if I could automate it, I suppose going markdown > docbook > output would make sense20:18
annegentlefor consistency's sake in branding/styling the output20:18
annegentledeshantm: making docbook the "interpretation" that goes to output, but still enabling authors to write in what they like20:19
deshantmpersonally i like simpler and the more plain the better, but I think some people that do docs probably like IDEs that do lots of formatting20:19
annegentleand reviews may be easier in markdown20:19
deshantmso people would have the choice of the markdown or docbook then?20:20
annegentledeshantm: I think the fluidity of the content is the pull to XML for me - if you take a look at the openstack-install folder in you can see more "topic" authoring - instead of per chapter, writing per "topic" and gluing it all together with xi:includes20:20
annegentledeshantm: I don't yet see a good way to cross link Sphinx sites, for example. And a markdown document is quite standalone20:20
annegentleStill, I want to enable content creation, ya know?20:21
deshantmyeah, the more the better20:22
annegentle#topic API quick start and reference page progress20:22
*** openstack changes topic to "API quick start and reference page progress"20:22
dwcramerWhat about a model where content is initially created in whatever format the contributors prefer and later upcast to the richer format?20:22
deshantmi think enabling markdown and seeing if people use it is a low risk option20:22
annegentledeshantm: ok, yeah, markdown is good for experimenting with since I have a new guide in markdown20:23
annegentledwcramer: yes, I agree with upcast as a model. Seems like best of "all" worlds.20:23
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annegentleSorry if I changed topics too quick :)20:24
annegentleSo, the mockup site at has been updated with a search box, (yeah!) and some additional content.20:24
annegentleI think I have lots of "blessings" on the mockup.20:24
annegentleSo I feel quite comfortable going forward with it.20:25
annegentleI talked at the last openstack-qa meeting about getting help with creating WADLs to form the site content. The QA attendees like the mockup and offered to help.20:25
deshantmyou know what would be cool on that page... an autocompletion feature. So you type /server/i and it auto completes image for example20:25
annegentledeshantm: so it sort of does autocomplete already, just in highlighters in the text below.20:26
annegentledeshantm: type "serv" and you see the highlighting below20:26
dwcramerI see what he means though...a box for just the paths.20:26
dwcramerI'll add a story to the backlog.20:27
dwcramerTab completion makes me happy too.20:27
deshantmthe other thing that would be nice to see somewhere on this page is an object model20:27
annegentledeshantm: yeah makes sense, thanks for adding it dwcramer20:27
deshantmjust at a high level how things hook together20:27
annegentledeshantm: oh, what does that look like?20:27
annegentledeshantm: one model site for our mockup was
deshantmsomething like:
annegentledeshantm: oh, how was that put together, do you know?20:28
deshantmI don't know actually, but I could ask around to try to find out20:29
annegentledeshantm: sure, thanks20:30
deshantmmy vague recollection is that it was something they were able to automate with Ocaml...20:30
annegentle#action deshantm to look for source and toolchain of
annegentledeshantm: automation is good :)20:30
annegentledeshantm: with WADL generating the api site, we do get some "automation" but it's not exactly straight from code20:30
annegentleWe do have a tool for helping with WADL writing, dwcramer do you have that link handy?20:32
annegentledwcramer: thanks20:33
dwcramerUsed in conjunction with oXygen.20:33
annegentleAnd oXygen licenses are free to OpenStack contributors20:33
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annegentleJay Pipes has agreed to write a WADL for the object-api (Swift)20:33
annegentleWe have a WADL in review for the image-api, one for compute-api, and several for identity-api (though they're in the Keystone repo)20:34
deshantmannegentle: it is autogenerated from source:
annegentleSo we're nearly set with the content to fill in the mockup and coincide with the Essex release20:34
annegentleThat's all on the agenda.20:35
annegentle# topic Open Discussion20:35
deshantmi think that is probably it or some of it20:37
deshantmmy guess is that it is specific to ocaml that xapi is written in, but it is in python so it may be able to be generalized to work with the OpenStack API20:38
deshantmI bet there is a tool that could generate a class diagram given python code20:40
deshantmthe question is, what does the API look like in code at the moment?20:41
deshantmis it a set of inter-related classes?20:41
deshantmor is it more stand-alone modules?20:41
deshantmit is RESTful20:41
annegentleit is RESTful20:41
annegentlebut I haven't dug into the code well enough to know if it's modules or classes20:42
annegentlemy attempts to get an auto-generated solution have come up flat... :)20:43
deshantmso  maybe it is not necessary, but some high level picture is always useful to get a quick overview20:43
annegentledeshantm: yes I like the idea of a diagram somewhere but this site is meant for lookup/reference more than conceptual overview20:43
annegentlethe API Quick Start definitely should have a diagram though20:43
annegentleshowing the relatedness of each API to the other20:43
deshantmin the end, devs will dig into the details, but if people teaching the API have a picture to point to, it can help their students20:43
deshantmjust quick impression thoughts is all20:44
annegentledeshantm: yes, thanks for that20:45
deshantmi don't have anything else20:45
annegentleand sorry for my slowness responding, interuptions abound!20:45
deshantm(for now)20:45
deshantmno worries20:45
annegentleok, that's all I have for now, seems monthly meetings are still okay.20:45
annegentleI'll report at tomorrow's team meeting about this one.20:45
annegentlebut that's it! Thanks for coming.20:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Meetings: | Minutes:"20:45
openstackMeeting ended Mon Jan  9 20:45:54 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:45
openstackMinutes (text):
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