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| jaypipes | QA meeting starting now... | 17:00 |
|---|---|---|
| jaypipes | #openmeeting | 17:00 |
| jaypipes | #startmeeting | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 23 17:00:37 2012 UTC. The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 17:00 |
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| jaypipes | gah.. so stressed I'm forgetting the friggin bot commands... | 17:00 |
| jaypipes | #topic status update | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status update" | 17:01 | |
| jaypipes | donaldngo_hp: noticed a bunch of patches from you, thank you! I'll try to get reviews on them ASAP. | 17:02 |
| jaypipes | We still need to eval davidkranz_ ' stress test work as well. If anyone has some spare cycles, would be great to get reviews on: https://review.openstack.org/4393 | 17:02 |
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| jaypipes | In fact, reviews are piling up at https://review.openstack.org/#q,status:open+project:openstack/tempest,n,z | 17:04 |
| jaypipes | Would be great to get some help in reviews from those in the QA team | 17:04 |
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| davidkranz_ | I will take a look | 17:05 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: thx David :) | 17:05 |
| jaypipes | I got a note from Daryl offline that he and his team are finalizing some work to make the Tempest test suite easier to use. Looking forward to that work. | 17:06 |
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| jaypipes | Unless anyone has anything else to bring up, I'm happy to close this meeting and get on to doing reviews on Tempest commits... ? | 17:06 |
| davidkranz_ | How do Smokestack and Torpedo relate to Tempest? There was an email about them this morning. | 17:06 |
| jastr | I'll look at some as well. | 17:06 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz_: Smokestack is a framework that stands up OpenStack in both bare-metal and virtual server clusteres. Torpedo is a functional test suite (more a set of exercises) that is exectured against a SmokeStack environment. | 17:13 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: Smokestack/Torpedo is executed against every commit to all core project trunks. | 17:13 |
| jaypipes | #endmeeting | 17:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status and Progress (Meeting topic: keystone-meeting)" | 17:18 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 23 17:18:30 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:18 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-02-23-17.00.html | 17:18 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-02-23-17.00.txt | 17:18 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-02-23-17.00.log.html | 17:18 |
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| jdg | Folks here for the volume meeting? | 18:01 |
| clayg | o/ | 18:01 |
| YorikSar | Yep | 18:01 |
| thrawn01 | yes | 18:01 |
| DuncanT | Hup | 18:01 |
| jdg | Alrighty then... | 18:01 |
| jdg | #startmeeting | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 23 18:01:34 2012 UTC. The chair is jdg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 18:01 |
| ogelbukh | hi | 18:01 |
| clayg | I don't see vlad, or renuka, or vish :( | 18:01 |
| jdg | We should give them a minute or two... I know Renuka was planning to attend | 18:02 |
| jdg | Perhaps we can start talking about current work until they get here? | 18:02 |
| jdg | I put an agenda up: | 18:02 |
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| jdg | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/NovaVolumeMeetings | 18:02 |
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| clayg | has anyone started using/testing the new volumes api endpoint? | 18:03 |
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| jdg | #topic new/current work for Essex | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "new/current work for Essex" | 18:03 | |
| bcwaldon | vishy and I were going to add support for using it through novaclient | 18:03 |
| bcwaldon | but not yet :) | 18:03 |
| DuncanT | We only started looking at it today | 18:04 |
| bcwaldon | one major pain point I've seen is when the volumes compute extensions get out of sync with the volumes endpoint | 18:04 |
| bcwaldon | I would love to see that code merged somehow | 18:04 |
| YorikSar | bcwaldon: I still could not find time to look into it | 18:05 |
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| bcwaldon | ok, no worries | 18:05 |
| jdg | Ok, anybody have anything specific they want to talk about regarding Essex, or do we need to spend some tim discussing this issue? | 18:06 |
| YorikSar | As I saw, it should not take a lot of time | 18:06 |
| YorikSar | I think, this issue should be solved befor essex | 18:06 |
| jdg | Sounds good | 18:06 |
| clayg | bcwaldon: regarding api/openstack/compute/contrib/volumes getting out of sync with "volumes endpoint" - don't they currently both use the same db? | 18:07 |
| bcwaldon | the code gets out of sync, not the data | 18:07 |
| clayg | oh | 18:07 |
| bcwaldon | they're the same code, but copied to two separate places | 18:07 |
| YorikSar | The extension is not covered with tests at all now | 18:07 |
| bcwaldon | so its easy to fix a bug in one place | 18:07 |
| clayg | right, yes | 18:07 |
| clayg | right - i saw the volumes_type fix that you did fixed it in both - you're attentive like that - most of us aren't | 18:08 |
| clayg | YorikSar: which extention? rly? | 18:08 |
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| bcwaldon | not necessarily attentive, I've just already felt the pain of not fixing it in both places ;) | 18:08 |
| YorikSar | clayg: The os_volume extension... I bumped into 500 error using novaclient, spent a lot of time wondering how could it pass all the tests. | 18:09 |
| clayg | jdg: ok, you're running the show here - what's next! ;) | 18:09 |
| jdg | :) alright.... | 18:10 |
| YorikSar | clayg: And then I realized that tests cover only endpoint | 18:10 |
| jdg | Sounds like there's some more discussion needed on this, maybe at the end of the meeting or after | 18:10 |
| jdg | I wanted to see if anything has anything specific to work they've done for Essex that should be shared to a wider audience | 18:10 |
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| jdg | IE Blueprints | 18:11 |
| clayg | Vlad had that bit on the multi type driver, don't think it ever got wrote | 18:11 |
| clayg | but like when he talked about it - I never understood how he was planning on implementing it... so I think I was missing some understanding of his use case. | 18:12 |
| YorikSar | Blueprints that were approved to FFe are all merged or postponed now | 18:12 |
| jdg | Ok... I was more or less trying to sync folks up but maybe not applicable here. | 18:12 |
| jdg | Moving on... | 18:12 |
| jdg | #topic outstanding work that folks need help with | 18:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "outstanding work that folks need help with" | 18:13 | |
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| jdg | Any specific bugs issues that folks are workign on and could use some help on? | 18:13 |
| clayg | but #897075 | 18:13 |
| clayg | volume int is id not uuid | 18:13 |
| clayg | heh *bug | 18:14 |
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| jdg | Ok, anybody looked at this one? | 18:15 |
| YorikSar | clayg: Is it a real issue? | 18:15 |
| bcwaldon | I have looked into it, and gave up when I realized how much work it was going to be | 18:16 |
| YorikSar | I mean, isn't it just aestetic? | 18:16 |
| renuka | no i think even wrt security | 18:17 |
| clayg | YorikSar: there's some risk with the id's being auto incrementing that can be a collision problem in staging... | 18:17 |
| renuka | you should not be able to predict volume ids for a particular user | 18:17 |
| bcwaldon | yes, so I think it does need to happen | 18:17 |
| YorikSar | Got it. | 18:18 |
| YorikSar | And, may be, it should also happen before Essex | 18:18 |
| jdg | bcwaldon: How far did you get into finding where the changes need to be made? | 18:18 |
| jdg | Or anybody else that's familiar with the issue | 18:19 |
| YorikSar | Since people heard the word LTS in one sentence with Essex | 18:19 |
| bcwaldon | oh, it's basically a sweep of the entire volume-related codebase | 18:19 |
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| bcwaldon | I did some of the work for instances uuids | 18:19 |
| jdg | Oh... that's all? :) | 18:19 |
| bcwaldon | so I know the depth of the changes | 18:19 |
| bcwaldon | yes...that's the problem! | 18:19 |
| jdg | Well, I'll volunteer to take a piece of it and see how it goes. Anyone else? | 18:20 |
| bcwaldon | the thing is you can't really break it up into pieces, since as soon as you make the change *all* the tests break | 18:21 |
| renuka | why is it a sweep of the code base? i would assume that once a volume id is assigned, it just gets used without interpretation | 18:21 |
| YorikSar | There can also be a problem with drivers there... | 18:21 |
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| jdg | bcwaldon: Yeah, my hope was someobdy else would step up and we could divide the effort | 18:21 |
| bcwaldon | jdg: I'm saying I don't think that would work very well ;) | 18:21 |
| jdg | bcwaldon: Ah, ok. | 18:22 |
| jdg | well my offer still stands to work on this if somebody wants to bring me up to speed on the issue later? | 18:22 |
| renuka | jdg can help out with the creation bit.. after that point, everyone ensures their drivers keep working? | 18:22 |
| jdg | renuka: I'm willing to got that route if others agree | 18:23 |
| YorikSar | renuka: Well, the thing with drivers is that there can be some that are not supported too active | 18:23 |
| jdg | Remember I'm still relatively new so I may need a little guidance to start. | 18:23 |
| clayg | jdg: yeah I mean if you get a branch up I'll definately check it out and deploy/test/review | 18:23 |
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| jdg | Ok, I have time to devote so I can work on it if folks are in agreement. bcwaldon, sound reasonable? Or are we dreaming here? | 18:24 |
| clayg | YorikSar: if Theirry can rip out Hyper-V we can rip out sheepdog? | 18:24 |
| bcwaldon | jdg: no, I was just too lazy to do it | 18:25 |
| renuka | By their drivers, i meant either those you wrote or are interested in... if you are not familiar, all you need to do is file a bug and bring it to peoples notice.. :) | 18:25 |
| bcwaldon | jdg: have fun with it | 18:25 |
| jdg | LOL.. that's always ominous | 18:25 |
| YorikSar | clayg: It can be too late for this | 18:25 |
| renuka | yea, we ought to check with vish if they will have this for essex | 18:26 |
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| YorikSar | Actually we can be more optimistic and hope that drivers can accept long ugly string as id | 18:26 |
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| renuka | I don't expect drivers to manipulate the ids so I am optimistic, yes | 18:26 |
| YorikSar | For example, the Nexenta one can handle this (I hope so) | 18:27 |
| DuncanT | We make use of the ID, but it is easy enough to work with the change as long as the length is well defined | 18:27 |
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| clayg | I think we mostly see the 'vol-0000001' looking "id" | 18:29 |
| clayg | jdg: DuncanT: YorikSar: renuka: is SolidFire, HP, Nexenta, or Citrix using "volume_types" ??? | 18:30 |
| jdg | Negative for SolidFire | 18:31 |
| DuncanT | Not yet in production but we've plans around it | 18:31 |
| renuka | DuncanT: Since compute has already converted to use uuids, there is already code in there doing what we need. I don't think we need to worry about how long the resulting string is | 18:31 |
| DuncanT | (HP) | 18:31 |
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| YorikSar | clayg: I've been looking for it, only Zadara used them | 18:31 |
| renuka | clayg: Citrix is not using it yet... I haven't gotten around to changing the SM driver to start | 18:32 |
| DuncanT | renuka: We use the volume id as a key into our own databases inside our own databases, so we need a spec for it. As long as there is a spec, we don't care too much what it is | 18:32 |
| renuka | but we do need it | 18:32 |
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| ogelbukh | I thought this is tied to volume scheduler | 18:32 |
| clayg | yeah I was hopeing to get a "state of the union" update on Xen Storage Manager support :) | 18:32 |
| renuka | clayg: heh I had switched to devstack work for the last couple of months :) | 18:33 |
| clayg | ogelbukh: the types is just an attribute on the volume model - in theory it could be used by the scheduler - on in our case (maybe hp too) passed along unmodified | 18:33 |
| DuncanT | clayg: Yeah, we want it unmodified too | 18:33 |
| renuka | so give me about a week.. there are some bugs that are fixed on our internal branch that need to be rebased | 18:33 |
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| ogelbukh | I see | 18:33 |
| clayg | renuka: so you're just here being nosy - you don't really _care_ about volumes any more :D | 18:33 |
| clayg | oh... wow nm, looking forward to it! | 18:34 |
| renuka | clayg: haha, no! | 18:34 |
| renuka | clayg: I am supposed to be working on everything :D | 18:34 |
| clayg | lol | 18:34 |
| ogelbukh | ) | 18:34 |
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| clayg | jdg: what do you mean by BSaaS? | 18:35 |
| jdg | Ok, so WRT bug #897075 it sounds like initial thought is move forward with putting in a "real" UUID for ID correct? | 18:35 |
| uvirtbot` | Launchpad bug 897075 in nova/essex "volume int is id not uuid" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/897075 | 18:35 |
| YorikSar | I looked through id usage in drivers. Looks like it will go well if iSCSI supports long IDs | 18:35 |
| jdg | clayg: Block Storage as a Service (sorry, should've added that) | 18:36 |
| ogelbukh | this was Lunr once | 18:36 |
| renuka | #agreed fix bug #897075 for essex | 18:36 |
| jdg | I'll explain more next | 18:36 |
| clayg | ... sry, i sort of assumed that... I meant to say tell me what you think "Block Storage as Service" means? | 18:36 |
| jdg | I'll get there next... | 18:36 |
| jdg | Ok, so I'll create a branch and try to get started on this. I may need a quick run down from folks more familiar. | 18:37 |
| * clayg bubbles with excitement | 18:37 | |
| renuka | lol | 18:37 |
| jdg | If bcwaldon or somebody else wants to give me a quick over view later that would be great. | 18:37 |
| jdg | Ok clayg :) | 18:37 |
| bcwaldon | jdg: I'm free later | 18:37 |
| jdg | Great thanks! | 18:37 |
| jdg | #topic BSaaS | 18:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "BSaaS" | 18:38 | |
| jdg | So I think this has come up before with mixed feeling from folks, but... | 18:38 |
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| YorikSar | We (with ogelbukh) did some drawing and writing on this one | 18:38 |
| jdg | There's been some more thoughts about spinning Block Storage out into it's own project seperate from Nova | 18:38 |
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| YorikSar | http://goo.gl/xM0aD | 18:38 |
| ogelbukh | probably invented a kind of bicycle here | 18:39 |
| YorikSar | We believe that can be done a Quantum way | 18:39 |
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| jdg | YorikSar: thanks for the link | 18:40 |
| YorikSar | So that it can become easier to add more backends and protocols etc | 18:40 |
| DuncanT | So what would be left in nova-volume? | 18:40 |
| ogelbukh | jdg: I think its a fate of Lunr that has caused this confusion | 18:40 |
| YorikSar | Nothing :) | 18:40 |
| jdg | ogelbukh: exactly | 18:40 |
| clayg | lol | 18:40 |
| ogelbukh | DuncanT: we actually thought of making VolumeManager | 18:40 |
| jdg | So one thing I've run into is there seems to be pockets of work/ideas around this | 18:41 |
| ogelbukh | that can replace nova-volume | 18:41 |
| renuka | i worry about complicating things ... we dont have enough contributors, so I tend feel easier the code, the better... | 18:41 |
| ogelbukh | like Quantum replaces nova-network | 18:41 |
| YorikSar | I think, we can propose a way to switch between nova-volume and (let's say) Lunr | 18:41 |
| YorikSar | And then cut nova-volume out entirely | 18:41 |
| jdg | renuka: ultimately wouldn't it make the code "easier" as you suggest to seperate it? | 18:41 |
| * clayg has no idea how quantum "works" | 18:41 | |
| YorikSar | It will be easier | 18:42 |
| YorikSar | I believe in this one :) | 18:42 |
| jdg | The growing pains are tough, but the end result would be better I believe | 18:42 |
| renuka | jdg: if someone can dedicate enough time to it to make it work well... people already familiar with nova volume, there is a knowledge base. | 18:42 |
| YorikSar | We can do a lot of abstractions and reuse if we rearchitect things a bit | 18:42 |
| renuka | ... for the record, I know this is shortsighted, but given the size of community contributing to volumes at the moment, it seems like a big task | 18:43 |
| jdg | renuka: I agree, but I think there's a growing interest here | 18:43 |
| renuka | YorikSar: what is the most painful thing about nova volume right now | 18:43 |
| ogelbukh | we have at least 6 months in incubation | 18:43 |
| ogelbukh | and probably more | 18:43 |
| renuka | can it be fixed by Vlad's suggestion for volume scheduler | 18:43 |
| jdg | I also believe that if it was a first class citizen of it's own it would gain even more attention/interest | 18:43 |
| YorikSar | renuka: For example, there is no way to add another protocol, there is only iSCSI | 18:44 |
| ogelbukh | btw, I heard that Lunr is still in development | 18:44 |
| jdg | ogelbukh: I think Lunr has morphed into something different | 18:44 |
| renuka | you can add drivers for any type of backend | 18:44 |
| DuncanT | Writing a driver that doesn't use iSCSI is easy enough? | 18:44 |
| clayg | YorikSar: rbd? | 18:45 |
| bvanzant | iSCSI is a limitation of the hypervisor, right? | 18:45 |
| ogelbukh | couldn't find anything more specific on this morph, alas | 18:45 |
| clayg | if we're still talking about hte host connecting to storage and exposting it to the guest - then any BSaaS would be limited by what is supported in the virtdriver | 18:45 |
| renuka | SM on xenserver can connect to a large number of backends, including netapp, nfs, iscsi, etc. | 18:45 |
| YorikSar | clayg: I mean, you can add FibreChannel as option to standard driver, but it will be painfull to use itin other drivers (e.g. Nexenta) | 18:46 |
| jdg | ogelbukh: Sorry... I believe it's turned more into actually creating an iSCSI target from commodity hardware, ie Swift but for Block | 18:46 |
| ogelbukh | oh, I see | 18:46 |
| ogelbukh | sounds like Ceph | 18:47 |
| renuka | I think this is a long discussion which ought to happen on the mailing list with more visibility | 18:47 |
| clayg | ogelbukh: not really like ceph, more like iscsidriver now - but with backups to cold storage (swift) | 18:47 |
| jdg | renuka: Yes, but I wanted to try to get the ball rolling (even if folks throw it at me) | 18:47 |
| YorikSar | Am I wrong thinking that if we can presen a block device in the host system, we can attach it to VM in any hypervisor? | 18:47 |
| renuka | we should deal with current essex issues like adding tests, finding/fixing bugs | 18:47 |
| ogelbukh | clayg: the idea is to get client-agent that can connect devices to compute hosts | 18:47 |
| ogelbukh | via any storage protocol | 18:47 |
| clayg | whoa | 18:48 |
| * clayg 's mind is blow | 18:48 | |
| ogelbukh | and make it into VM like local storage | 18:48 |
| ogelbukh | ) | 18:48 |
| jdg | renuka: Agreed, but the summit is coming up and we should have some sort of plan/goal don't you think? | 18:48 |
| jdg | clayg: sorry, you're right. | 18:49 |
| YorikSar | jdg: I don't really see a difference in "BS for commodity hardware" and nova-volume... It gives block storage spreaded over some Linux hosts too... | 18:49 |
| renuka | again, I think its a topic that needs more visibility. And this has been tried before. Folks tend to say they are interested, but it doesn't really translate to contributions.. so perhaps it isnt pinching them enough yet | 18:49 |
| jdg | YorikSar: probably a topic for another discussion | 18:49 |
| vishy | I'm not sure the point of rewriting a new BSaaS as opposed to breaking out nova-volume | 18:49 |
| DuncanT | If what is being proposed is to rename nova-volume, make it a first class citizen then growing it organically, that seems quite reasonable | 18:50 |
| jdg | vishy: So maybe that's what it ends up being, I'm not proposing a specific "plan" or "design" | 18:50 |
| YorikSar | vishy: As I told, the wiring protocols is a good example where just separating nova-volume is not enough | 18:50 |
| jdg | Just the concept of seperating it | 18:50 |
| clayg | idk it soulds like the idea of a client-agent is dramatically different then what nova-volume is now | 18:50 |
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| vishy | YorikSar: wiring protocols? | 18:51 |
| YorikSar | vishy: iSCSI, FibreChannel, etc | 18:51 |
| ogelbukh | clayg: it's about removing volume code from virt driver actually | 18:51 |
| jdg | Once you have an API into the "volume" code however doesn't it make life easier to do things like add protocols etc? | 18:51 |
| ogelbukh | making it more lightweight | 18:51 |
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| ogelbukh | I believe I've seen couple of lines on it just today | 18:51 |
| clayg | with a guest that has to run on a guest environment that I don't really need/want to log into? It's one way to do it... | 18:52 |
| vishy | YorikSar: we already support different protocols | 18:52 |
| vishy | YorikSar: I don't see why we would need to rearchitect for that | 18:52 |
| DuncanT | YorikSar: Anything that presents as a block device is supported now | 18:52 |
| clayg | DuncanT: only as far as the virt layer supports that connection type | 18:52 |
| DuncanT | Are there any that don't support raw devices? I wasn't aware of any | 18:53 |
| YorikSar | I don't see a way to mix protocols in one driver... | 18:53 |
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| vishy | YorikSar: you can pass back whatever you want in initilalize_connection | 18:54 |
| clayg | DuncanT: "raw devices" oh erm... I'm not sure... like currently libvirt uses iscsiadm to connect to remote target, and xen uses xapi to make the calls to setup the iscsi SR... | 18:54 |
| vishy | and as long as there is corresponding logic on the compute side it will work | 18:54 |
| vishy | so one driver could pass back iscsi/rbd/sheepdog/... | 18:55 |
| YorikSar | vishy: But what if we want volume to be accessible over any protocol? It can be helpful in any environment | 18:55 |
| clayg | DuncanT: I hadn't really though of the storage already existing as a "raw device" on the hypervisor? What the connection type ofr htat? | 18:55 |
| YorikSar | vishy: s/any/mixed/ | 18:55 |
| DuncanT | clayg: We set up complex dm devices and pass them to back via discover (diablo not essex, some of the driver names have changed a bit) | 18:55 |
| vishy | YorikSar: then we just have to extend initialize_connection to allow you to specify a type of connection | 18:56 |
| clayg | "we set up complex dm devices" durning attach, or this is preconfigured on the hypervisor? | 18:56 |
| DuncanT | clayg: on attach | 18:56 |
| clayg | DuncanT: so... doesn't nova-compute need to know how to do all that? | 18:57 |
| YorikSar | vishy: Then we need to somehow control information about compute host (it can do one protocol, but not another) | 18:57 |
| clayg | er... does nova-volume run on every compute node!? | 18:57 |
| vishy | correct | 18:57 |
| YorikSar | vishy: And I think that this should be controlled by separate agent, not nova-compute | 18:57 |
| vishy | it should explicitly try to make one type of connection | 18:58 |
| DuncanT | clayg: We only have one instance of nova-volume, it passes all the work via rpc to our backend | 18:58 |
| vishy | running another agent on the compute host seems excessive | 18:58 |
| clayg | DuncanT: sigh... so but... then... who exactly is setting up the "complex dm devices" on the compute node during attach :D | 18:58 |
| clayg | DuncanT: sorry, I just find this very interesting... | 18:59 |
| YorikSar | Then we end up with volume logic spread over nova-compute and nova-volume | 18:59 |
| vishy | YorikSar: you can't get around taht | 18:59 |
| clayg | vishy: ++ | 18:59 |
| vishy | YorikSar: we tried initially | 18:59 |
| vishy | YorikSar: you have too many potential backends on the compute side | 18:59 |
| DuncanT | nova-compute calls our driver discover method in our driver. It sets up the device(s) | 18:59 |
| vishy | and each backend needs its own logic to connect to volumes | 19:00 |
| jdg | Ok, we're unfortunately running out of time | 19:00 |
| clayg | DuncanT: yes got it! I remember that in diablo nova-compute used to have an instance of the volume-driver | 19:00 |
| clayg | brilliant! | 19:00 |
| YorikSar | vishy: Well, then I have another card to draw. What about usability as a stand-alone service? | 19:00 |
| clayg | YorikSar: this is acctually an interesting use case | 19:01 |
| vishy | YorikSar: the point of separating nova-volume is to turn it into BSaaS | 19:01 |
| DuncanT | clayg: I admit I haven't looked very carefully at essex recently | 19:01 |
| vishy | own repo, on rest endpoint, own api, own extensions | 19:01 |
| DuncanT | clayg: I'll get somebody here to look and check our approach still works :-) | 19:01 |
| clayg | whoa... DuncanT has "people" for that sort of thing. | 19:02 |
| YorikSar | vishy: if we keep logic in compute (not in agent), we can not reuse it for some other service | 19:02 |
| vishy | YorikSar: It could even be rearchitected in the way you suggest, I just don't think you need to start from scratch | 19:02 |
| jdg | +1 Start by separating | 19:02 |
| vishy | YorikSar: if there is some common code that could live in BS service and be imported by nova-compute I'm all for it | 19:02 |
| ogelbukh | vinayp: we definitely were not thinking of it in this way | 19:02 |
| vishy | I just don't think there is much reuse there | 19:02 |
| vishy | look for example at the iscsi code in libvirt vs xen | 19:03 |
| vishy | 0 shared code | 19:03 |
| clayg | vishy: and not a lot of oppertunity to share either, the hv's approach it differently | 19:03 |
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| vishy | you could in nova compute have from bssass.hyepervisor.drivers import libvirt | 19:03 |
| ogelbukh | sorry, it was for you vishy | 19:03 |
| vishy | libvirt.iscsi.connect | 19:04 |
| YorikSar | Yes, but isn't iscsi driver ensure connection anyway? | 19:04 |
| vishy | libvirt.fibre.connect | 19:04 |
| vishy | etc. | 19:04 |
| clayg | vishy: maybe better to leave that to the guys that know the hypervisors (i.e. nova.virt) | 19:04 |
| vishy | but then the authors of bsaas have to understand all potential hypervisors | 19:04 |
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| clayg | ahahahahhghghghgh no! | 19:05 |
| vishy | clayg: that is my thinking, define a common interface for what will be requested and returned | 19:05 |
| vishy | a la initialize_connection | 19:05 |
| clayg | yup it's pretty good IMHO | 19:05 |
| vishy | then the hypervisor maintainers in nova can figure out how to connect to the different potential exports | 19:05 |
| clayg | YorikSar: what do you think? Long term this is big limitation? | 19:05 |
| clayg | seems like the most pragmatic approach to me | 19:06 |
| YorikSar | vishy: I think, we should be able to provide external interface like "make that volume attached to current host", so that someone who does not know anything about iSCSI could get a volume. | 19:06 |
| clayg | I'm scared of the agent based attach, even just running a shared storage pool that has direct connection to running guests is scary (must eaiser to just have connectivity to hv) | 19:06 |
| vishy | YorikSar: that is fine for libvirt | 19:07 |
| vishy | YorikSar: but xen doesn't work that way | 19:07 |
| vishy | YorikSar: everything hast to be implemented as a xenapi plugin | 19:07 |
| vishy | YorikSar: because all extra code runs in a vm (nova-compute nova-network, etc.) | 19:07 |
| vishy | YorikSar: I initially tried to do it exactly that way, but you can't expect that every hypervisor is running the same code on the host | 19:08 |
| YorikSar | vishy: Hm... I was talking about the world out of Nova | 19:08 |
| vishy | so you really have to let the hypervisor control the BS connection | 19:08 |
| YorikSar | vishy: But I get the point | 19:08 |
| YorikSar | vishy: We can later add an option "attach to host" along with that agent | 19:08 |
| vishy | YorikSar: providing general client code to connect to volumes seems excellent | 19:09 |
| vishy | YorikSar: we could even put it in python-xxxxclient | 19:09 |
| vishy | and the hypervisors could use it where in makes sense | 19:09 |
| vishy | you could even have guests connecting on their own | 19:10 |
| clayg | huh, that's interesting... | 19:10 |
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| jdg | It sounds like we have a concensus to move forward with this yes? | 19:10 |
| YorikSar | vishy: I still insist on an agent for this so that it caould be used as a stand-alone service with persistent attachements etc. But make it optionally, to let user delegate attachement burden to its code (like xenapi plugin) | 19:11 |
| vishy | +1 to having generic connection code, I'm just not convinced that it will work for all hypervisors, so I think you need to let the hypervisors optionally use it. | 19:11 |
| jdg | Renuka dropped off unfortunatley | 19:11 |
| vishy | YorikSar: sure seems very useful | 19:11 |
| renuka_ | no i am here | 19:11 |
| vishy | YorikSar: I would say that is priority 2 vs getting all of the other stuff working | 19:11 |
| DuncanT | Sounds like we all basically want the same thing, just different priorities on the layers | 19:12 |
| vishy | solidifying api and extensions, getting the code separated, etc. | 19:12 |
| jdg | So I have a proposal... | 19:12 |
| YorikSar | Sounds like we found common ground to start with :) | 19:12 |
| jdg | Can we agree as DuncanT pointed out to start laying a plan | 19:12 |
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| jdg | We can phase things over time, prioritize sepearation for Folsom | 19:13 |
| vishy | jdg: yes, I was going to propose a discussion at the summit | 19:13 |
| jdg | vishy: great | 19:13 |
| YorikSar | Do we want to force separation in Folsom? | 19:13 |
| jdg | I would also like to get a discussion going via email | 19:13 |
| vishy | jdg: I think we can separate into a new repo in the first couple of weeks | 19:13 |
| jdg | As Renuka suggested to get more buy in from everybody | 19:13 |
| YorikSar | I mean, shouldn't we keep nova-volume deprecated for one release? | 19:14 |
| vishy | YorikSar: we can leave existing nova-volume in | 19:14 |
| vishy | YorikSar: but I really think we can complete the separation pretty quickly | 19:14 |
| vishy | we already have the api separated, need a few extensions, etc. | 19:14 |
| vishy | waldon and I are planning on improving the documentation of the api a bit so that people can start using it. | 19:15 |
| DuncanT | Can we make nova-volume a shim that jsut calls our new stuff? | 19:15 |
| DuncanT | s/jsut/just/ | 19:15 |
| vishy | DuncanT: My plan is to replace all of the volume_api calls in nova | 19:15 |
| vishy | with a little wrapper that imports python-xxxxclient | 19:16 |
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| vishy | and makes the calls through the client | 19:16 |
| DuncanT | vishy: Clearly you've thought more about this than me :-) | 19:16 |
| vishy | I've been planning this out for about 6 months | 19:16 |
| vishy | :) | 19:16 |
| YorikSar | I think, after the start of separation, user will have to run bsaas-api alongside the nova-api and bsaas-storage-agent instead of nova-volume - and that's it | 19:16 |
| clayg | vishy: attach still goes to compute endpoint yes? | 19:16 |
| vishy | clayg: yes | 19:16 |
| vishy | so now it goes | 19:17 |
| vishy | attach -> volume_api -> initialize_connection | 19:17 |
| vishy | it will go | 19:17 |
| vishy | attach --> volume_shim -> python-xxxclient -> volume_api -> initialize_connection | 19:17 |
| vishy | once that is done volume_api can be running from an external repo no problem | 19:18 |
| vishy | so basically it is making sure all of the calls that are just going over the queue are going over the rest api instead | 19:18 |
| clayg | vishy: awesome | 19:19 |
| vishy | then xxx-core can rearchitect components if they feel it is necessary | 19:19 |
| clayg | so the canonical representation of guest xyz is attached to volume xyz is in volumes service or nova database? | 19:19 |
| vishy | as long as they maintain consistent api and extensions it is totally decoupled | 19:19 |
| clayg | like on a migration, when the guest is coming up on the new host, where does it look for the list of volumes to make initialize connection calls for? | 19:20 |
| vishy | clayg: that is a good question. I think based on the current implementation you can reserve a volume | 19:20 |
| vishy | clayg: it is on both sides | 19:20 |
| jdg | api call in to the volume service? | 19:20 |
| vishy | clayg: compute has a list of block_device_mapping | 19:20 |
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| vishy | clayg: the volumes on the other end should know that they have an active connection from <something> | 19:21 |
| vishy | clayg: and I think the reservation idea allows us to specify a uuid for what is connecting to it | 19:21 |
| YorikSar | I think, there will be some client_migration call in volume code too... | 19:21 |
| clayg | vishy: yeah right, but generally it's to the host, so you don't know which geust except for metadata | 19:21 |
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| vishy | clayg: it probably has to be metadata in the reserve | 19:22 |
| clayg | yes, makes sense, thanks | 19:22 |
| vishy | clayg: these are things that need to be hammered out, so hopefully we have a core volume team that owns all of this stuff | 19:22 |
| vishy | in prep for the summit we will document what exists | 19:22 |
| vishy | I will lay out my plan for getting volume into its own repo | 19:23 |
| vishy | we will come up with a code name (< most important part) | 19:23 |
| jdg | vishy: Do you want to do that before the summit or during the summit? | 19:23 |
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| vishy | jdg: which? | 19:23 |
| clayg | what? cinder already has momentum! | 19:23 |
| jdg | vishy: Lay out the plan | 19:23 |
| YorikSar | Shouldn't we consider Lunr vacant now? | 19:23 |
| jdg | Your paln | 19:23 |
| jdg | plan | 19:23 |
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| vishy | Lunr already is in use | 19:24 |
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| vishy | clayg: i love cinder, apparently there is another opensource project by that name so there is concern | 19:25 |
| vishy | jdg: I can lay out the plan in advance of the summit | 19:25 |
| jdg | vishy: Got it thanks | 19:25 |
| clayg | awww man! | 19:25 |
| YorikSar | Hm... I still don't get it, what will Lunr do what nova-volume (or xxx) does not | 19:25 |
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| vishy | jdg: I don't think much will get done on it in advance | 19:25 |
| clayg | oh ummm... can someone core review: | 19:25 |
| vishy | Lunr is just a backend | 19:25 |
| clayg | https://review.openstack.org/#change,4293 | 19:25 |
| clayg | ^ for python-novaclient | 19:25 |
| uvirtbot` | clayg: Error: "for" is not a valid command. | 19:25 |
| vishy | volumes on commodity hardware | 19:25 |
| YorikSar | But nova-volume installed on that hw gives us volumes on it too | 19:26 |
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| clayg | YorikSar: lunr is very much like what you currently get from nova-volume | 19:26 |
| js42 | vishy: are there any docs or information about lunr or is it proprietary? | 19:26 |
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| Mike656 | hi | 19:27 |
| vishy | YorikSar: you could say that it is just a better version of the existing iscsi backend for nova-volume | 19:27 |
| clayg | js42: currently being developed internally at rackspace | 19:27 |
| vishy | YorikSar: if lunr gets opensourced we could just tear out the existing one | 19:27 |
| Mike656 | Can nova work without keystone? | 19:27 |
| clayg | Mike656: noauth works a treat! | 19:27 |
| vishy | or, perhaps the lunr team will pull code in gradually | 19:27 |
| YorikSar | So we'll get a good version and a better version?.. | 19:28 |
| Mike656 | clayg: how do they interact? | 19:28 |
| jdg | Unfortunatly I have to drop off and end the meeting. | 19:28 |
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| js42 | clayg: Rackspace proprietary? or are there public design docs? | 19:28 |
| clayg | jdg: thanks for putting this together! | 19:28 |
| clayg | js42: there are not | 19:28 |
| ogelbukh | thank you gentlemen | 19:28 |
| jdg | clayg: Thank you .. and everyone else for that matter. | 19:29 |
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| jdg | This was good. So I'll plan on meeting next week as well. | 19:29 |
| YorikSar | We should do it again | 19:29 |
| YorikSar | jdg: Yes, very good idea | 19:29 |
| clayg | jdg: well _yeah_ we can't wait to get a status update on the id -> uuid branch | 19:29 |
| Mike656 | How should I arrange nova and keystone to work together? | 19:29 |
| jdg | It's scheduled as weekly so jump in | 19:29 |
| DuncanT | jdg: I'd like to get boot from volume firmly on the agenda for next week if possible? | 19:30 |
| jdg | clayg: :) I'll keep you posted, maybe even before next week | 19:30 |
| jdg | #endmeeting | 19:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status and Progress (Meeting topic: keystone-meeting)" | 19:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 23 19:30:17 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-02-23-18.01.html | 19:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-02-23-18.01.txt | 19:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-02-23-18.01.log.html | 19:30 |
| * andrewbogott has questions | 19:30 | |
| andrewbogott | dammit | 19:30 |
| renuka | i am most definitely working on boot from volume next week | 19:30 |
| clayg | Mike656: try asking in #openstack instead of #openstack-meeting? | 19:30 |
| renuka | i had a change which was based on diablo | 19:30 |
| Mike656 | ok, thanks | 19:30 |
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| jdg | If folks feel there are pressing issues we should discuss before next week perhaps they can propose another meeting between now and then. Or utilize email? | 19:31 |
| DuncanT | renuka: I'm interested on hearing about what you're up to. I'm only just getting my head around waht is there. | 19:31 |
| DuncanT | renuka: Some obvious use-cases seem to be missing | 19:31 |
| renuka | DuncanT: are you using it with libvirt or xen? | 19:31 |
| DuncanT | libvirt | 19:32 |
| renuka | DuncanT: what i am working on now is to get it working for xen | 19:32 |
| renuka | DuncanT: but i agree it needs more work.. | 19:33 |
| DuncanT | renuka: I'll put some thoughts down in an email, and you can tell me if I appear to be missing the point :-) | 19:33 |
| ogelbukh | I believe there is a specific nova-volume ML we can utilize for questions and thoughts | 19:33 |
| renuka | ok i have another meeting now.. we should continue this on email or at the next meeting | 19:33 |
| clayg | okbai | 19:34 |
| DuncanT | I have to head off too... bye all | 19:34 |
| renuka | bye | 19:34 |
| ogelbukh | bye | 19:34 |
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| n0ano | anyone here for the orchestration meeting? | 20:06 |
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| sriramhere | any orchestration meeting attendees around? | 20:11 |
| n0ano | just us chickens | 20:12 |
| n0ano | sriramhere, did you have anything you wanted to discuss today? | 20:13 |
| sriramhere | Don Dugger had a proposal of having an Orchestration session during the summit - to kind of revive | 20:14 |
| sriramhere | i would like to followup on that | 20:14 |
| n0ano | #startmeeting | 20:15 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 23 20:15:24 2012 UTC. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:15 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 20:15 |
| n0ano | #topic orchestration session at Folsom summit | 20:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "orchestration session at Folsom summit" | 20:15 | |
| n0ano | Well, Don Dugger would be me :-) | 20:15 |
| sriramhere | Oh Sorry Don, this is my first time, and didnt get your irc id | 20:16 |
| n0ano | NP, I like to confuse people (clearly it's working :-) | 20:16 |
| n0ano | I think we need to setup a blueprint and make a proposal for the summit | 20:16 |
| sriramhere | :) | 20:17 |
| sriramhere | do we have any drafts yet? | 20:17 |
| sriramhere | or previous bps? | 20:17 |
| sriramhere | i am looking at http://wiki.openstack.org/EssexSchedulerImprovements | 20:18 |
| n0ano | I haven't done anything yet, I believe that Sandy Walsh had one for the Essex summit, we could redo that for Folsom | 20:18 |
| sriramhere | Shall i take a first crack at it? | 20:18 |
| sriramhere | and u can do a review? | 20:18 |
| sriramhere | disclaimer - i havent done any bps yet. i am getting involved only now, but would like to take it on, if thats ok with u/ team | 20:19 |
| n0ano | That would certainly work for me. | 20:19 |
| sriramhere | great! | 20:19 |
| n0ano | we seem to work on the swim lesson plan, throw people in the deep end and see if they swim | 20:19 |
| sriramhere | gr8 | 20:20 |
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| sriramhere | let me get a version by Monday, so we go through review iterations couple of times before next thurs - is that a reasaonle time line? | 20:20 |
| n0ano | There seem to be 2 separate areas for orchestration, scheduler enhancements (what I'm interested in) and message/process serialization. | 20:20 |
| n0ano | sure, will you be talking specifically about scheduler or also address the serialziation issues? | 20:21 |
| sriramhere | i will start with scheduler. my intiial gut tellsme it might require two. i might be wrong | 20:21 |
| sriramhere | i will start with that, then may be combine both if thats correct | 20:22 |
| n0ano | let's start from there and see where we go, I think that be fine. | 20:22 |
| sriramhere | cool | 20:22 |
| mikeyp | (sorry, I'm late) | 20:22 |
| n0ano | NP, we're talking about creating a blueprint for an orchestration session at the Folsom summit | 20:22 |
| n0ano | sriramhere, has agreed to start one by Monday that we can then review | 20:23 |
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| mikeyp | The Essex bluebrint is still valid for the most port. | 20:23 |
| n0ano | that's what I was thinking, just update that a little bit for Folsom | 20:24 |
| n0ano | do you have a direct link to the Essex blueprint? | 20:24 |
| sriramhere | anything specific that is missing? | 20:24 |
| sriramhere | no i dont - can u please point me that? | 20:24 |
| mikeyp | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/NovaOrchestration | 20:25 |
| sriramhere | thx, | 20:27 |
| mikeyp | The essex presentation is also archived #link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTZJXjRtuSU | 20:28 |
| n0ano | so, shall we have sriramhere update the Orch. BP and see if we can use that as a basis for a talk at the Folsom summit? | 20:28 |
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| mikeyp | sounds like a plan. maoy and beekhof both had proposals on implementation, so they will likely have some feedback | 20:30 |
| sriramhere | gr8, wat more do i need to watch out for / look for? | 20:31 |
| mikeyp | I think it will mostly involve the implications of the tactical scheduler enhancements | 20:32 |
| mikeyp | don't have much real world experience with those yet | 20:32 |
| sriramhere | i ll check out existing systems like yagi. and try to include the enhancements | 20:33 |
| sriramhere | do we need to worry abt scoping now? | 20:34 |
| n0ano | what was your concern? | 20:34 |
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| sriramhere | n0ano - is that question for me or mikeyp? | 20:36 |
| n0ano | sriramhere, sorry, yes was to you, what is your scoping conern? | 20:36 |
| sriramhere | scoping - i wanted to know if the BP should inlcude any scoping - for instance features only for Folsom, or can start big, and can be contained/ scoped as Folsom, Folsom+ features | 20:38 |
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| sriramhere | scheduler improvements - one can do keep doing this forever. my assumtion is BP shoul contain what we are proposing for Folsom alone | 20:39 |
| sriramhere | and may be call out some as Folsom+ if doesn't appear to be fit | 20:40 |
| n0ano | as long as we don't restrict ourselves too much focusing on Folsom would be good, there will be an G summit for followon work | 20:40 |
| sriramhere | ok - thats good to know, think big then:) | 20:41 |
| n0ano | in that case: | 20:41 |
| n0ano | #action sriramhere to update Orchestration blueprint for a Folsom session | 20:42 |
| n0ano | anything else we want to discuss | 20:42 |
| sriramhere | request to give appropriate permissions | 20:43 |
| sriramhere | i am good otherwise | 20:43 |
| n0ano | I'm not sure about the permissions issue, we might need someone more knowledgble about Launchpad than I if there's an issue there | 20:44 |
| sriramhere | ok | 20:45 |
| sriramhere | thanks. cu all | 20:45 |
| n0ano | In that case I'll thank everyone and I'll be here next week. | 20:45 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 20:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status and Progress (Meeting topic: keystone-meeting)" | 20:46 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 23 20:46:02 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:46 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-02-23-20.15.html | 20:46 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-02-23-20.15.txt | 20:46 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-02-23-20.15.log.html | 20:46 |
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