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| jaypipes | dwalleck: yo! | 16:45 |
|---|---|---|
| dwalleck | jaypipes: Howdy! | 16:46 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: see my reviews for your branches up on Gerrit... | 16:46 |
| dwalleck | Sorry I missed out last week. Team outing :) | 16:46 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: np! | 16:46 |
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| jaypipes | dwalleck: also, you need to unabandon the quantum tests branch... | 16:46 |
| dwalleck | Meh, it got tossed also? I thought I had more time. I'll take care of that | 16:47 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: https://review.openstack.org/4896 | 16:47 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: this one too: https://review.openstack.org/4528 | 16:47 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: never mind that second one... looks like a true abandoned one. | 16:48 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: That one I resubmitted as a new branch. I made a mistake and made a commit while doing a rebase | 16:48 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: yep, sorry, noticed that after... | 16:50 |
| jaypipes | We've got a ton of abandoned branches: https://review.openstack.org/#q,status:abandoned+project:openstack/tempest,n,z | 16:50 |
| dwalleck | Which I've found is a tough thing to undo...I need to stop working on patches at 2 am | 16:50 |
| jaypipes | We should get through those today and see which ones are good. | 16:50 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: lol :) | 16:50 |
| dwalleck | Yeah, some of these (especially around volumes) we really need | 16:51 |
| dwalleck | Though volumes are the tricky one....by default devstack sets some low limits on the volumes you can create. I'm wondering if there's something we can do/something devstack can do to make it so either people understand why the tests are failing, or know to up their volume backing file size | 16:52 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: yeah... | 16:52 |
| dwalleck | One sec, grabbing a plate of lunch. BBQ! | 16:52 |
| jaypipes | k | 16:52 |
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| anotherjesse | dwalleck: with devstack you can back the volumes to a real volume group | 16:57 |
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| dwalleck | anotherjesse: ahh, gotcha. I've just been using the devstack defaults | 17:00 |
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| anotherjesse | dwalleck: the reason for the small number is that when it was larger people would run out of space -- since many folks run it in a VM | 17:00 |
| jaypipes | afternoon QAers, about to start the meeting... | 17:00 |
| jaypipes | #startmeeting | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 22 17:01:09 2012 UTC. The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 17:01 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: done getting lunch? | 17:01 |
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| anotherjesse | dwalleck: that doesn't mean we can't try harder to have a default based on introspecting the environment | 17:01 |
| dwalleck | yup! I'm back | 17:01 |
| dwalleck | anotherjesse: Not a problem, that makes total sense. | 17:01 |
| jaypipes | OK, so couple major items... | 17:02 |
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| jaypipes | 1) does anyone know what happened to Chris Fattarsi? | 17:02 |
| dwalleck | not I | 17:02 |
| jaypipes | He was working on the Keystone tests but seems to have vanished. | 17:02 |
| jaypipes | and it's to the point now that I'm about to just take over the work... | 17:02 |
| dwalleck | yeah, I halted our submission because he had started | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: I think we need to just push ahead... | 17:03 |
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| jaypipes | Keystone is a critical functional test area.. | 17:03 |
| dwalleck | Probably not a bad idea | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: afternoon | 17:03 |
| davidkranz_ | Yo. | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: OK, you have a lot on your plate already... | 17:03 |
| dwalleck | davidkranz_: howdy | 17:03 |
| Carlos_Swift | hello room | 17:03 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: do you have someone on your team who can do the keystone work? | 17:04 |
| davidkranz_ | I can't even get keystone to work! | 17:04 |
| jaypipes | Carlos_Swift: heyo :) | 17:04 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: well, that's another story ;_) | 17:04 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: That's an understatement :) I do. He had some code to merge, but chris beat him to the punch | 17:04 |
| dwalleck | But I can either have him pick up those branches, submit his branches, or work with you to get them into a good state | 17:04 |
| dwalleck | Whatever is the easiest and/or makes the most sense | 17:05 |
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| jaypipes | dwalleck: submit it ASAP in whatever state... | 17:05 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: if it gets in before chris' work, so be it. | 17:05 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: you got it boss | 17:05 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: but we need to start iterating on the keystone stuff ASAP. | 17:05 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: thx mate | 17:05 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: agreed | 17:06 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: as for the Quantum tests, you are working on unabandoning those, right? | 17:06 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: Right. I just need to make some minor fixes | 17:06 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: k. | 17:06 |
| jaypipes | I will write an email to Ravi about Sapan's branches. They are long abandoned, even though they have review comments to address | 17:07 |
| jaypipes | so hopefully Ravi can have someone else pick those up if Sapan cannot do them. | 17:07 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz_: approved the updates to the stress tests from Adam G. | 17:07 |
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| jaypipes | davidkranz_: they should be merged in trunk now. | 17:07 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: thanks. | 17:07 |
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| jaypipes | np | 17:08 |
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| davidkranz_ | As far as I can tell, there are no complete instructions for keystone/essex that work anywhere. Are there? Or at least some kind of code one can read other than devstack which uses this template catalog stuff. | 17:08 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: yes, that is correct (but being worked on) | 17:08 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: devstack is a source of info on setting it up, but as you say, it uses the templated catalog. | 17:08 |
| jaypipes | whereas the ubuntu packages use the SQL backends | 17:09 |
| davidkranz_ | I am pretty sure I am only one or two bugs away from having it working bug debugging is tricky. | 17:09 |
| anotherjesse | are you hoping to get coverage of both styles? | 17:09 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: that's good to hear. | 17:09 |
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| davidkranz_ | Is there an easy way to watch the exchange between nova and keyhstone that happens when you do 'nova list'? | 17:09 |
| jaypipes | anotherjesse: not really a matter of something that tempest controls :) we just point the API calls at an environment. If that environment is devstack, it will stress the template backend, if the env is ubuntu, it will stress the SQL backend :) | 17:10 |
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| adam_g | davidkranz_: other than tailing logs on either end, none that i can think of. someone mentioned using ngrep for this on the ML the other da | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: I have screen open on my devstack install box and run tempest from another machine. having a look at the n-api and k-api screens will show you the communication. | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | OK, so let's move on to the next topic... | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | #topic Jenkins job(s) firing Tempest | 17:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Jenkins job(s) firing Tempest" | 17:12 | |
| jaypipes | OK, so I put in a first stab at this a couple days ago. | 17:12 |
| jaypipes | jeblair gave me some heads up on the code review and I'm going to try again today. | 17:12 |
| dwalleck | nice | 17:12 |
| * jeblair is very excited about this | 17:13 | |
| jaypipes | it involves changes to the devstack-gate subproject in the openstack-ci repo (https://github.com/openstack-ci/devstack-gate) | 17:13 |
| * anotherjesse too | 17:13 | |
| adam_g | is this going to be another pre-commit gating job? | 17:14 |
| jaypipes | I kinda borked the original merge proposal but hope to have another one submitted today to jeblair | 17:14 |
| anotherjesse | adam_g: I think this is a job that runs, not a gate? | 17:14 |
| anotherjesse | at least at the begininng | 17:14 |
| jaypipes | adam_g: eventually, perhaps a subset of Tempest will gate, yes, depending on how long the tests take | 17:14 |
| jaypipes | anotherjesse: correct | 17:14 |
| adam_g | i see | 17:14 |
| jaypipes | adam_g: we are going to see how long the tests take, then try to get the performance better, and gradually include more and more of the tempest tests as a gate | 17:15 |
| jaypipes | at least, that's the plan. | 17:15 |
| adam_g | we're in the process of getting the same up and going here for post-commit testing we do in addition to devstack exercises - https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20OpenStack%20Testing/job/precise-openstack-essex-tempest/lastCompletedBuild/testReport/ | 17:15 |
| jaypipes | In other performance news, I ran tempest with --processes=8 on my "uberbox" and got the time down about 15%. | 17:15 |
| dwalleck | That seems like a reasonable goal | 17:16 |
| dprince | When I run Tempest... I just run the 'smoke' tests. | 17:16 |
| jaypipes | Now, this isn't great, but it's a start, and the tests completed successfully, so we should be able to get some better parallelization with a little effort | 17:16 |
| dprince | Running the entire suite takes *way* to long at this point. | 17:16 |
| jaypipes | dprince: yes, agreed. | 17:16 |
| dalang | jaypipes: thanks for looking review earlier, ill resubmit later today | 17:16 |
| jaypipes | dalang: rock on. | 17:17 |
| dwalleck | Well, I've had it running at 50 threads...it kind of screams :) But, that was using a different runner | 17:17 |
| jaypipes | dalang: ah! you are Chris Fattarsi! | 17:17 |
| dalang | indeed | 17:17 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: what different runner? | 17:17 |
| jeblair | jaypipes: to make it easier to have two jobs, one that runs all of tempest, and one that won't (starting with not running tempest at all, and moving onto running part of tempest for gating)... | 17:17 |
| dalang | i should probably make that easier to spot :) | 17:17 |
| jeblair | jaypipes: i'd recommend adding an argument to the devstack-vm-gate.sh that controls whether/to what degree to run tempest | 17:18 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: OK, will do. | 17:18 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: One of my devs has an experimental branch using py.test. It has some very slick, easy to configure multithreaded/distributed testing capabilities | 17:18 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: dalang == Chris Fattarsi. :) cancel the request about Keystone tests | 17:18 |
| dwalleck | gotcha | 17:18 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: gotcha | 17:18 |
| jaypipes | jinx. | 17:18 |
| dwalleck | damnit | 17:18 |
| dwalleck | Either way, performance is my next priority. I think we can pull a few easy tricks to make things pretty fast | 17:19 |
| jaypipes | OK, so as far as tempest goes, today I'm just going to be doing that Jenkins job stuff and a blog article on running Tempest + devstack + RC1 Essex stuff to get folks to do more testing | 17:19 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: ++ | 17:19 |
| jaypipes | JoseSwiftQA: how's Swift tests going? | 17:20 |
| dwalleck | Well performance + documentation + autoconfig + deep validation | 17:20 |
| JoseSwiftQA | still a little ugle, need to update it to work better with auth 2.0 | 17:20 |
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| jaypipes | JoseSwiftQA: gotcha. any ETA? | 17:21 |
| JoseSwiftQA | that's a tough one | 17:21 |
| jaypipes | JoseSwiftQA: any chance we can get a few tests added in for starters? | 17:21 |
| jaypipes | JoseSwiftQA: and then build from there? | 17:21 |
| JoseSwiftQA | I don't think that's a problem. I had to throw away my old outdated branch, but that made me refactor a lot of bad code out | 17:21 |
| JoseSwiftQA | so it's alot closer to presentable now. | 17:22 |
| jaypipes | k. well don't hesitate to grab us if you get into a rabbithole | 17:22 |
| jaypipes | happy to assist | 17:22 |
| JoseSwiftQA | will do, thanks | 17:22 |
| jaypipes | OK folks, anything else to bring up today? | 17:23 |
| jaypipes | #topic Open Discussion | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion" | 17:23 | |
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| dwalleck | Design conference? | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: ah.. | 17:24 |
| dwalleck | It'd be nice to sit together in a room and work through future plans | 17:24 |
| jaypipes | I have one talk so far submitted for QA (from Ravi about test strategy) | 17:25 |
| jaypipes | in the next week or two, I will submit 2 sessions -- one for the general overview of tempest and usage, and another for planning Folsom improvements. | 17:26 |
| jaypipes | I encourage folks to submit talks on stuff that interests them. | 17:26 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: sounds great! | 17:26 |
| dwalleck | I'll be finding something to talk about I'm sure. What is the process for submitting sessions? | 17:27 |
| * dwalleck still an OpenStack noob | 17:27 | |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: http://summit.openstack.org/ | 17:27 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: should be a submit a session button. | 17:27 |
| jaypipes | dwalleck: http://wiki.openstack.org/Summit | 17:27 |
| jaypipes | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Summit | 17:27 |
| dwalleck | wow, that's quite a few sessions. Thanks! | 17:27 |
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| jaypipes | dwalleck: well there's close to 400 developers coming to the summit this time! | 17:28 |
| dwalleck | It'll be interesting for sure. Looking forward to it | 17:29 |
| jaypipes | ++ | 17:29 |
| jaypipes | OK y'all, I'm ready to end the meeting. Be prepared for me bugging people more and more for reviews and fixes over the next couple weeks :) | 17:29 |
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| jaypipes | I'd like our team to go into the design summit with a Jenkins job and some successful Tempest test runs under our belt. | 17:30 |
| dwalleck | jaypipes: ++ | 17:30 |
| dwalleck | I'll get my nose back to the grindstone | 17:30 |
| jaypipes | davidkranz_: would be good if you proposed a session about the stress tests at the DS (hint, hint) :) | 17:30 |
| davidkranz_ | jaypipes: Sure. | 17:30 |
| jaypipes | alrighty, time to end. catch you all in the etherwebs. | 17:30 |
| jaypipes | #endmeeting | 17:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status and Progress (Meeting topic: keystone-meeting)" | 17:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 22 17:30:51 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-22-17.01.html | 17:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-22-17.01.txt | 17:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-22-17.01.log.html | 17:30 |
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| jdg | #startmeeting | 18:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 22 18:03:12 2012 UTC. The chair is jdg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 18:03 |
| jdg | Any folks present for the block storage meeting today? | 18:03 |
| jdurgin | I'm here if people have things to discuss | 18:04 |
| jdg | I was hoping to discuss boot from volume some more, as well as updates on volume uuid | 18:05 |
| jdg | Looks like it's another no show | 18:06 |
| DuncanT | I'm here | 18:06 |
| jdg | Ok... | 18:06 |
| jdg | Ok, so there was a pretty lively discussion on boot from volume last time | 18:07 |
| jdg | I didn't see any note written up or proposals, was thinking I'd go ahead and do a high level description on what we talked about | 18:07 |
| jdg | submit on the wiki or something | 18:07 |
| jdg | Mainly wanted to focus on defining what we're looking for, as there seems to be different ideas about what BFV is | 18:08 |
| jdg | ie booting an instance with a volume attached versus actually having an instance on the volume | 18:08 |
| DuncanT | We've been having some internal discussions here on same, they got lively too for the same reasons | 18:08 |
| jdg | Any thoughts? | 18:08 |
| jdg | DuncanT: Sorry... didn't mean to cut you off | 18:09 |
| jdg | :) | 18:09 |
| jdg | So I can see both use cases, however the second is NOT boot from volume in my mind. It's boot with volume | 18:09 |
| jdg | plain and simple | 18:09 |
| DuncanT | Agreed | 18:09 |
| jdurgin | yeah | 18:09 |
| DuncanT | Different issue, also needs doing :-) | 18:09 |
| jdg | Agreed | 18:10 |
| jdg | Ok, so we're looking at two seperate blueprints then | 18:10 |
| timr1 | tim here as well, yep agree "boot from" is different to" boot with" we are intertsted in the former | 18:10 |
| DuncanT | Maybe more than two... it all gets a bit complicated when you start looking a possible semantics for BFV | 18:10 |
| jdg | DuncanT: Good point, the other wrench to throw in is breaking out block storage | 18:11 |
| jdg | But I think if that's done correctly and the API looks right it will allow alot of those use cases | 18:11 |
| DuncanT | If it doesn't allow both these cases it is broken and will need fixing IMO | 18:12 |
| jdg | Seems like the right thinking to me | 18:12 |
| timr1 | agree | 18:12 |
| DuncanT | We (HP) have been discussing BFV a lot in the last week or so, we plan on having a blueprint out before the summit for discussion there | 18:12 |
| jdg | the trouble I'm having is I don't want to wait until the summit to figure out what we're doing. | 18:12 |
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| timr1 | sure, we would do the bprint before then, | 18:14 |
| jdg | I think it might be good to get some ideas around use cases going into the summit | 18:14 |
| jdg | timr1: ok... what sort of timeline are you thinking? | 18:14 |
| jdurgin | a thread on the mailing list might collect more use cases from a wider audience, even before blueprints are ready | 18:15 |
| jdg | jdurgin: good idea, do you want to send it out or shall I? | 18:15 |
| jdurgin | jdg: I can do it | 18:15 |
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| jdg | #action jdurgin to send out mailing list request for BFV use cases | 18:16 |
| DuncanT | We hope to have a blueprint in two weeks, purely so there is something concrete to discuss at the summit | 18:16 |
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| DuncanT | Maybe a week if other pressures allow | 18:16 |
| jdg | DucnanT: sounds good | 18:16 |
| jdg | #action DuncanT to submit blueprint for BFV in the next 2 weeks | 18:17 |
| DuncanT | Part of the problem is that you need not just the use cases, but the cognative model to go with it, e.g. is a snapshot of a bootable volume the same as a glace image? | 18:17 |
| jdg | DuncanT: I would say that's something that would be good to have | 18:18 |
| jdg | DuncanT: But I also don't know that it needs to be first pass | 18:18 |
| jdurgin | there are already two kinds of snapshots in nova, and cleaning up that sounds like a separate issue | 18:19 |
| jdg | I guess I'm thinking of coming up with the cognitive model based on use cases | 18:19 |
| jdg | Otherwise you end up with a screwy paradigm | 18:19 |
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| DuncanT | jdg: The two go together. There should be some beginnings of our thoughts on the subject in the blueprint | 18:19 |
| DuncanT | If you implement use-cases without thinking of the model then you end up with screwy APIs :-) | 18:20 |
| jdg | DuncanT: Agreed | 18:20 |
| jdg | But the other direction is true as well | 18:21 |
| DuncanT | Indeed | 18:21 |
| jdg | Ok, so this is good. We at least have some steps for where to go | 18:21 |
| jdg | I think there are quite a few things that can be done with block storage, seems like a priority list should be put together at the summit | 18:22 |
| jdg | hint, hint... propose sessions on the web page :) | 18:22 |
| jdg | Ok, does anybody have any topics they want to discuss today? We have a couple action items already. | 18:24 |
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| jdg | If anybody is interested in uuid conversion for volume ID's I'll fill ya in on that? | 18:24 |
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| jdurgin | sounds good | 18:25 |
| DuncanT | We have some interest in getting some firming up of the semantics of snapshot & backup | 18:25 |
| jdg | DuncanT: any specific proposals/ideas? | 18:25 |
| DuncanT | There's an old blueprint about it, but getting some agreement would be nice, and we only really have a view of what our storage system can do rather than what other people want/can do | 18:26 |
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| jdg | DuncanT: Do you have a link to the blueprint? | 18:27 |
| DuncanT | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/nova-volume-snapshot-backup-api | 18:28 |
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| DuncanT | Basically, a snapshot is a lightweight point-in-time frozen copy of a volume, a backup is an external, pan-availabily zone thing e.g. to swift | 18:29 |
| jdg | DuncanT: So is there some controversy around these definitions? | 18:30 |
| DuncanT | jdg: There seemed to be a couple of weeks ago, yes | 18:31 |
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| jdg | DuncanT: Ahh, yes... from within this meeting in fact | 18:31 |
| DuncanT | jdg: Indeed | 18:31 |
| jdg | Personally I don't necessarily see why. I'd have to go back through the notes. | 18:32 |
| jdg | WRT lifetime of the snapshot, I would tie it to the originating volume | 18:32 |
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| timr1 | there was also controversy when there was only one term "SNAPSHOT" some people wanted it to be a quick point in time snap, others wanted it to be a swift copy. | 18:32 |
| timr1 | that lifecycle has issues: | 18:33 |
| jdg | So I think that's why you have clones and snapshots no? | 18:33 |
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| timr1 | if I create a new volume from a s snapshot (a clone) then that should be able to live even if the original is deleted - no? | 18:34 |
| timr1 | original volume that is | 18:34 |
| jdg | timr1: agreed | 18:34 |
| jdg | timr1: But that's assuming you do a "create volume from snapshot" | 18:34 |
| jdg | timr1: so I would propose it's an additional step | 18:35 |
| timr1 | eh, yes | 18:35 |
| jdg | In other words the definition: snapshots are for point in time restores to a volume | 18:35 |
| jdg | They can be used to create a new volume (clone) | 18:35 |
| jdg | The new volume is not tied to the snapshot it orignates from | 18:36 |
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| jdg | does anybody have any issues with going that route? | 18:36 |
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| DuncanT | jdg: We see no reason to tie the lifetime of a snapshot with that of any volume | 18:37 |
| timr1 | can you expand on what you mean by: "snapshots are for point in time restores to a volume" | 18:37 |
| jdg | DuncanT: So you're proposing that even if you delete the originating volume the snapshot should "live on" | 18:37 |
| DuncanT | jdg: Yes | 18:38 |
| timr1 | agree | 18:38 |
| jdg | DuncanT: timr1: Ok... so why? | 18:38 |
| timr1 | but you cannot delete the snap if clones are in existence ? | 18:38 |
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| DuncanT | A use-case: | 18:39 |
| jdg | timr1: seems like you're making life difficult by doing that | 18:39 |
| jdurgin | it sounds like different volume backends have different assumptions about the lifetime of snapshots/volumes/clones, and whether they're tied together, so we can't have a single global policy | 18:39 |
| timr1 | jdg: sorry 0 that was a question, not an assertion :) | 18:39 |
| jdg | timr1: Oh... sorry. | 18:40 |
| DuncanT | I setup a volume with my basic ubuntu install, and snapshot it. I then clone this many times for different purposes. The fact my first volume eventually moves on and maybe becomes useless doesn't stop the snapshot still being useful | 18:41 |
| jdg | DuncanT: Ok, good use case | 18:41 |
| jdg | However, depending on how the clone is implemented it may or may not know anything about the snapshot | 18:42 |
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| jdg | The other problem is then you have to deal with managing which snapshots are valid for which clones | 18:42 |
| timr1 | ok, so we agree we can delete the original volume and the snap and any clones can live on - OK ? | 18:42 |
| DuncanT | valid? | 18:42 |
| DuncanT | I don't understand what you mean by that | 18:43 |
| jdg | timr1: Not sure I agree, however if the majority likes that approach that's cool | 18:43 |
| jdg | DucanT: Say you have volume-1, you create snapshot-a | 18:44 |
| timr1 | jdg, I was tryign to sumarise what Duncan was saying - thougth you did agree with his use case ? | 18:44 |
| jdurgin | timr1: it still seems backend dependent - i.e. lvm and rbd can't use snapshots after their associated volume has been deleted (not sure about other backends) | 18:44 |
| DuncanT | jdurgin: Then the implementation can in that case refuse to delete the volume until the snaps are deleted? | 18:44 |
| jdg | Then you clone | 18:44 |
| jdg | Then you snap volume-a again... you didn't do anything with volume-b | 18:45 |
| jdg | Point in time discrepencies start cropping up all over the place | 18:45 |
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| jdg | jdurgin: The backend dependency is another concern | 18:46 |
| jdurgin | DuncanT: yeah, my point is that the varying semantics support different use cases, but this means drivers have to handle the discrepancies | 18:46 |
| jdg | Depending on how snapshots are implemented it might not work at all | 18:46 |
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| DuncanT | jdg: I don't see the descrepacies... both snaps are logically copies of the volume at the instant of time they were created. Once you clone them, the clone becomes a (semantically) separate entity that can do its own thing | 18:47 |
| jdg | DucanT: right but then you're talking about restoring snaps from "other" volumes | 18:49 |
| jdg | That's not a snapshot, that's a clone | 18:49 |
| jdg | Sorry... | 18:49 |
| jdg | So what I'm saying is... once you create volume from a snapshot that should be the start of it's lifetime | 18:50 |
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| DuncanT | Right, I see, we're using the terms differently here. In your parlance, creating any volume from a snapshot is a clone | 18:50 |
| jdg | Depending on how snapshots are implemented it actually has to be this way | 18:50 |
| jdg | DucanT: correct, thanks :) | 18:51 |
| jdg | Does that mean we actually agree on this? | 18:51 |
| DuncanT | I /think/ we're talking about the same thing here. If I email out some examples and see if they match your idea? | 18:52 |
| jdg | Sounds like a great plan. | 18:52 |
| timr1 | I alos agree that the capabilities of back end implementations will differ depending on the technology used. For this reason the Nova semantics should be more relaxed and allow the back end decide what is possible in its own context | 18:52 |
| jdg | timr1: +1 | 18:52 |
| timr1 | ok - more write ups needed from Duncan :) | 18:53 |
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| jdurgin | timr1: agreed | 18:53 |
| jdg | It seems to me there are some generalized semantics already around these terms, we should stick with them | 18:53 |
| timr1 | I'll help him | 18:53 |
| jdg | Do you want to do mass email first, or just to this group to start? | 18:53 |
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| jdg | Might be easier to hash it out amongst the smaller group then propose it to the entire list | 18:54 |
| DuncanT | Agreed | 18:54 |
| timr1 | yep | 18:54 |
| jdg | Cool | 18:54 |
| jdg | Alright, anything else? Or should we keep going and assign more tasks to DuncanT :) | 18:55 |
| rnirmal | jdg: sorry I missed the earlier part... do you have an update on moving id's to uuid's | 18:55 |
| jdg | #topic volume uuid | 18:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "volume uuid" | 18:55 | |
| jdg | rnirmal: thanks for reminding me | 18:55 |
| jdg | So I implemented the migrations as well as the model and the db api | 18:56 |
| rnirmal | is there a way we can get this for essex or is it just folsom | 18:56 |
| jdg | fighting with the EC2 tests now | 18:56 |
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| jdg | rnirmal: So I haven't been really agressive with it because it sounded like it was nixed from essex | 18:56 |
| rnirmal | yeah that's what I thought too | 18:57 |
| rnirmal | just wanted to make sure | 18:57 |
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| jdg | rnirmal: So now I'm sort of in a spot, trying to keep up with changes but not submitting until after Essex | 18:57 |
| jdg | May be smarter to just get it figured out and then wait until after release | 18:58 |
| rnirmal | yeah I think we can work on getting it now... the release has been cut and trunk open for folsom | 18:58 |
| rnirmal | atleast from one of the last commits... but I may be wrong | 18:58 |
| jdg | Oh, that's right forgot Thierry sent out an email | 18:58 |
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| rnirmal | I'm interested in testing it out. I'll probably merge from your branch | 18:59 |
| jdg | Ok, I'll try devote some more time to it next week and try to get it done. | 18:59 |
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| jdg | rnirmal: I'll shoot you a note when there's something ready on my github branch. | 18:59 |
| rnirmal | jdg: perfect thanks. | 19:00 |
| jdg | It's terribly out of date right now :( | 19:00 |
| jdg | Ok, anybody have anything else? | 19:00 |
| jdg | Alrighty, thanks everyone for showing up. Same time and place next week. :) | 19:00 |
| DuncanT | I've volenteered for enough for one week :-) | 19:00 |
| timr1 | ciao | 19:00 |
| jdg | Dont' forget if you want to add agenda items to the wiki feel free. | 19:01 |
| jdg | Later! | 19:01 |
| jdg | #endmeeting | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status and Progress (Meeting topic: keystone-meeting)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 22 19:01:22 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-22-18.03.html | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-22-18.03.txt | 19:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-22-18.03.log.html | 19:01 |
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| mikeyp | Do we have a quorum for an orchestration meeting ? Is this the correct time ? | 19:03 |
| sriramhere | i am here for the orchestration meeting | 19:04 |
| n0ano | I'm here but I understand that, due to DST, technically the meeting should start an hour from now | 19:04 |
| sriramhere | oh ok | 19:04 |
| mikeyp | n0ano - that is a possibility | 19:04 |
| mikeyp | I updated wiki to change to PDT, but haven't been chairing the meetings | 19:05 |
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| mikeyp | So, what is correct time in UTC ? | 19:05 |
| n0ano | I'm willing to chair but we should get the time down right | 19:05 |
| n0ano | According to Thierry all meetings are in UTS and don't change due to DST so that makes our time 2PM MDT | 19:06 |
| n0ano | s/UTS/UTC | 19:06 |
| ttx | nova-volume is 1800 UTC | 19:07 |
| ttx | orchestration is 2000 UTC | 19:08 |
| ttx | one hour frmo now :) | 19:08 |
| n0ano | I think we agree then, re-convene in 50 minutes | 19:09 |
| sriramhere | aye | 19:09 |
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| n0ano | So, anyone back for the Orchestration meeting? | 20:00 |
| * mikeyp is here | 20:01 | |
| n0ano | anyone else? | 20:02 |
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| n0ano | I think sriramhere should be back, let's wait a minute two | 20:03 |
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| n0ano | well, looks like it's you & I for now, did you have an agenda you wanted to raise? | 20:06 |
| mikeyp | mostly want'ed to sync up on meeting time going forward. | 20:06 |
| n0ano | #startmeeting | 20:07 |
| mikeyp | been busy, so orchestration was back burner till essex RC | 20:07 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 22 20:07:04 2012 UTC. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:07 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 20:07 |
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| n0ano | understand, I've kind of been in holding mode thinking that we'll do most of the work at the essex summit | 20:07 |
| n0ano | #topic meeting time | 20:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "meeting time" | 20:07 | |
| n0ano | Given Thierry's email let's just definitively say that the Orchestration meeing is at 20:00UTC irrespective of daylight savings time | 20:08 |
| mikeyp | agreed. Updated wiki to that effect,to avoid confusion | 20:09 |
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| n0ano | sounds good | 20:10 |
| mikeyp | Main other agenda item is the summit, and what we should accomplish before then. | 20:10 |
| n0ano | #agreed meeting time is 20:00UTC | 20:10 |
| mikeyp | Is orchestration listed as a session topic yet ? | 20:10 |
| n0ano | #topic Orchestration summit topic | 20:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Orchestration summit topic" | 20:11 | |
| sriramhere | sorry guys | 20:11 |
| sriramhere | u am ack | 20:11 |
| sriramhere | i'm back | 20:11 |
| n0ano | sriramhere, np, did you see what we've talked over so far? | 20:11 |
| sriramhere | I submitted a session proposal | 20:11 |
| sriramhere | yes | 20:12 |
| mikeyp | sriramhere: ack :-) | 20:12 |
| n0ano | excellent, have you heard any confirmation on that? | 20:12 |
| sriramhere | not yet. | 20:13 |
| n0ano | OK, we'll keep and eye on that and try and make sure it happens | 20:13 |
| sriramhere | i wanted to briefly talk abt what i had in my mind while submitting the proposal, and what more we can do before the summit | 20:13 |
| sriramhere | i submitted under Brainstorm - | 20:13 |
| n0ano | brainstorm sounds appropriate | 20:13 |
| sriramhere | mainly to hash out the gaps in the previous blueprints (if at all) and why orchestration slipped out of Essex (so that we can address that) | 20:14 |
| sriramhere | also, if we can make more progress on blueprint, that d be good. | 20:14 |
| sriramhere | i also would have liked a presentation session - if we have more clarity on the design. | 20:15 |
| sriramhere | currently, we have bunch of alternatives talked about, but we need to get to the next step | 20:15 |
| n0ano | not sure we have a full idea for a presentation yet, the multiple alternatives would indicate the brainstorm is really what's required | 20:16 |
| n0ano | do we have the alternatives written down anywhere? | 20:16 |
| sriramhere | yes, they are under http://wiki.openstack.org/NovaOrchestrationSpecForFolsom | 20:16 |
| mikeyp | biggest issue is weaving this all into the cells and resource caching changes. That will probably impact the design. | 20:17 |
| n0ano | so where are the resource caching changes being documented, we'll need to know that to do things right | 20:18 |
| sriramhere | Also, session proposal made me submit new blueprint - which uses the above wiki as spec placeholder | 20:19 |
| sriramhere | bp itself (derived mostly from previous bp) is at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/nova-orchestration | 20:19 |
| mikeyp | would need to look at capacity cache changes. | 20:19 |
| sriramhere | what i found on the cache changes is old. let me get the link | 20:20 |
| sriramhere | it would be good if someone can update it | 20:20 |
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| sriramhere | http://wiki.openstack.org/EssexSchedulerImprovements - is this correct? | 20:21 |
| mikeyp | All of this is why I suspect we're somewhat stalled until the summit - the orchestration idea is valide, but there have been significant changes in essex | 20:22 |
| mikeyp | mainly scalability, and the referece I'm using is the code | 20:22 |
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| mikeyp | also, I need to jump off shortly. | 20:22 |
| mikeyp | Can we post an agenda for next week so we can be more productive ? | 20:23 |
| n0ano | mikeyp, sure, that's a good idea, that'll give us some time to think about things a little. | 20:23 |
| sriramhere | mikeyp - would you be able to document something about the cache? | 20:24 |
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| mikeyp | I can dig up the existing documentation and get references on it | 20:25 |
| sriramhere | gr8 | 20:25 |
| n0ano | I'm thinking the agenda for next week is `Orchestration and resource cache - read the linked blueprints and come prepared'. | 20:25 |
| sriramhere | ok | 20:25 |
| mikeyp | sounds like a plan | 20:25 |
| n0ano | #action mikeyp - provide references to docs on resource cache | 20:26 |
| n0ano | #action n0ano - post agenda for next week's meeting | 20:26 |
| sriramhere | #action n0ano sriramhere - read the blueprints mikeyp publishes and come prepared for discussion. | 20:27 |
| n0ano | so I'm thinking we're good for today (all the work is next week), anything else before we close? | 20:27 |
| mikeyp | nothing from me. | 20:27 |
| sriramhere | also, can we do skype or some voice call for more active disccusions? | 20:27 |
| sriramhere | other than that, nothing from me | 20:28 |
| mikeyp | thats possible | 20:28 |
| n0ano | note we don't know who will be there, there could be others trying to attend the IRC channel | 20:28 |
| sriramhere | lets convene here, and take it from there | 20:28 |
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| n0ano | OK, talk to you then | 20:29 |
| sriramhere | thanks! | 20:29 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 20:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status and Progress (Meeting topic: keystone-meeting)" | 20:29 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 22 20:29:44 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:29 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-22-20.07.html | 20:29 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-22-20.07.txt | 20:29 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-03-22-20.07.log.html | 20:29 |
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