Monday, 2012-07-09

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annegentleDoc Team meeting in about 1:15 in here, all are welcome18:46
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annegentleone minute til meeting time, any one here?19:59
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annegentleup for a Doc Team meeting?20:00
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annegentleI can always hold it for the notes :)20:00
annegentleI know a few Rackers had conflicting meetings at this time today20:01
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annegentleHmm. Hold the meeting with myself or just send notes to the mailing list?20:02
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jgriffithYou can just talk to me about Cinder's index.rst if nobody else shows :)20:03
jgriffithOr until others straggle in20:03
annegentleI wrote up lots of good juicy info, I'm holding a text meeting by gum.20:03
openstackMeeting started Mon Jul  9 20:03:43 2012 UTC.  The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:03
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annegentleAgenda at
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annegentle#topic Action items from last meeting20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from last meeting"20:04
annegentleannegentle to investigate Starter Guide repurposing - Done, let's discuss with a "Starter Guide future" topic in this meeting20:04
annegentlewriterDiane to send mockup to ijw - Done, Ian sent back feedback on the format and content.20:04
annegentleRock, first topic done.20:04
annegentle#topic Translation processes20:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Translation processes"20:05
annegentleThis morning Ying Chun sent an email updating us on the status of their prototype for translations.20:06
annegentle#info Process for doc translation is in prototype stage.20:06
annegentleAs Ying Chun notes, the prototype uses the openstack-manuals repository to store the .po files.20:06
annegentleI had been toying with the idea to have a separate repo for each language to house their manuals in - could be translations or originals.20:06
annegentleI think we can keep with the prototype but also look into separate repos.20:07
annegentleOne important step in the workflow that she is still working on is how to handle updates to the English documents.20:07
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annegentleAny questions? Since the document of the prototype just came through about 12-14 hours ago I don't expect much reaction yet.20:07
annegentleI think I am talking to myself… :)20:08
annegentleok, more are joining and talking to me PM and IM and ahhh!!! :)20:08
annegentleMore to come on translation processes, but that's a good update!20:09
annegentle#topic Starter Guide future20:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Starter Guide future"20:09
* koolhead17 looks around20:09
annegentleI've sent an email to the CSS open source solutions group manager to discuss the future of the OpenStack Beginner's Guide also known as the Starter Guide.20:09
annegentleNow that we have an Ubuntu and RHEL/Fedora install guide and are starting a translation process, it would make more sense to bring the Starter Guide into our usual processes with a license that would enable more contributors.20:10
annegentle#info Anne discussing the future work on the Starter Guide, proposing a merge and re-licensing to bring it into OpenStack docs.20:10
annegentleNo real conclusions yet, just discussion.20:10
* annegentle waves at koolhead17 20:11
* koolhead17 is mute20:11
annegentleany questions?20:11
annegentleI'm keeping the pace going :)20:11
annegentle#topic Redirects on diablo docs and file/ID renaming20:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Redirects on diablo docs and file/ID renaming"20:11
annegentleWhen you do a Google search for "openstack ip addresses" an old file comes up, one that was renamed with an essex rewrite. It has "Diablo" in the header and all.20:12
annegentleIt was me, I did the renaming of the ID, now I need to figure out the best way forward for about 111 orphaned HTML files.20:12
annegentleYep. 111. For the Compute Administration Manual alone. Sigh.20:13
annegentleI think I need to do a redirect for each individual file, knowing what it should point to. I've logged a doc bug to capture this work and assigned myself.20:13
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1022712 in openstack-manuals "About 111 orphaned HTML files still can come up in Google searches" [Undecided,New]20:13
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annegentleah, welcome Daisy_ !20:13
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annegentleI covered the translation process in the first topic, sorry!20:14
Daisy_Good evening !20:14
Daisy_it's all right20:14
annegentleYou can see the immediate log at
annegentleSo far, no feedback, but I wouldn't expect any yet.20:15
annegentleok, next topic20:15
annegentle#topic DocImpact flag20:15
*** openstack changes topic to "DocImpact flag"20:15
annegentleSo, I tried this myself on a patch by adding DocImpact to the commit message, and didn't see a notification email come through.20:15
annegentleI talked to clarkb on the CI Team about it, but haven't figured out what the problem is. I think that the solution is probably to get us onto a real mailing list like the new dev list.20:16
annegentleThe CI team can move our mailing list to the new mailing list server, does that sound good?20:16
annegentleI don't think it's controversially really :)20:17
annegentlemoving on...20:17
annegentle#topic Articles rather than books20:17
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annegentleHow interested are we in an article-based solution to documentation?20:18
annegentleWe've discussed a support knowledge base for example, and at the design summit we talked about a need for an article site.20:18
Daisy_what's the differences?20:18
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Daisy_article based or book based?20:18
annegentleThe doc tools team is prototyping a solution for Rackspace that OpenStack could consider. I want to hear from the community about the interest in such a solution.20:18
annegentleTo me, the book model and architecture of the current site is about right, but a support site would need articles.20:19
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Daisy_how can I know more about the prototype?20:20
annegentleIt's in the very early stages, but it's basically a change to the maven plugin that creates a deployable .war file and a front-end .jsp.20:20
annegentleI think it's not quite what we'd want for OpenStack, as it's another layer that we'd need to figure out how to community-ize.20:21
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annegentleI can describe more if needed. It definitely complicates translation because instead of creating "books" it uses metadata to group topics and content.20:21
Daisy_if we cannot find strong reason to move, I will suggest to keep current one.20:22
annegentleDaisy_: sounds good20:22
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annegentleI'd also like to explore ways to publish Docbook content to an article-based site20:23
annegentlenot completely revise our current info architecture but enable more articles.20:23
Daisy_that's a good point.20:23
annegentleAnd last but not least, congratulations and welcome to Atul Jha (koolhead17), our newest doc-core member.20:23
Daisy_congratulations, Atul Jha!20:24
annegentle#topic Open discussion20:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion"20:24
Daisy_I submitted a bug in bugzilla, asking to upgrade maven doc plugin to the lastest version.20:24
annegentleDaisy_: ah yes, I tried to explain the use of -SNAPSHOT.20:25
Daisy_Anne, when do you think the translation process can be ready to publish to community?20:25
annegentleDaisy_: Let's see… would it make sense to send your latest progress to the openstack list (what you sent to the doc-core list)?20:26
annegentleDaisy_: I also would like to work with you on an outline for the Beijing summit20:27
Daisy_all right.20:27
Daisy_thanks !20:27
notmynameannegentle: we've got two upcoming changes in swift that may need doc updates20:27
annegentleDaisy_: also, what is your sense of how "bad" (chaotic) it would be to enable a separate repo per language?20:28
annegentlenotmyname: ok, for the 1.5.0 or 1.5.1?20:28
Daisy_Anne: hard to syncronize between so many repositories20:28
notmynameannegentle: one in 1.5.1 (scheduled to be released next week, but that may slip) and the other might be in 1.5.1 but may slip to 1.5.220:29
annegentleDaisy_: when I've talked to people about it, they usually see gains in having native-language authors reviewing updates, but I'm not sure how much new documentation we would see in non-English languages.20:29
notmynameannegentle: the first (in 1.5.1) is the bin/swift separation to the python-swiftclient repo. python-swiftclient is now a dependency of swift20:30
annegentlenotmyname: I did an update of the python-swiftclient docs and noticed that there's no swift CLI documentation with it. Will there be?20:30
notmynameI don't know. I've been out and I'm just now catching up on things20:30
annegentlenotmyname: is the review for my minor edits20:31
Daisy_Anne: the native language authors can review throught Transifex UI. We separate the whole doc document into segement and use Transifex to translate, because we want to leverage crowed people to help translation.20:31
annegentlenotmyname: yeah you escaped the heat here! (So did I last week) :)20:31
notmynameI had to wear a hat to go to the store last night!20:31
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annegentleDaisy_: ok, that's true. Really the Gerrit/Github workflow would be more for original authored documentation in a non-English language.20:32
notmynameannegentle: eventually python-swiftclient should have its own docs, but for now if there was nothing in the main swift repo (I don't think there was), then there is nothing for python-swiftclient20:32
annegentleDaisy_: perhaps I don't want to introduce so much chaos and need to be told so :)20:32
annegentlenotmyname: the only swift CLI docs are ones I wrote from a letterj blog post :)20:32
notmynameannegentle: ok :-)20:33
koolhead17annegentle, is someone already working on Cinder and Quantum doc?20:33
notmynameannegentle: the second change is the keystone auth middleware that is moving into the swift repo (from the keystone repo). this change might land this week in time for 1.5.1, but if not it will be in the release after (probably called 1.5.2)20:33
annegentlekoolhead17: I have been talking to people about both, sometimes submitting patches even.20:34
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annegentlenotmyname: yeah I wondered how best to handle that for docs. Not simple.20:34
koolhead17annegentle, so can`t we involve some core devs for some help20:34
annegentlekoolhead17: absolutely.20:34
annegentlekoolhead17: so, Quantum has API and admin docs already. Cinder just started on dev docs last week I think.20:35
koolhead17annegentle, ooh cool20:35
annegentlekoolhead17: what we will need to do for Folsum is figure out how to create "Compute | Storage | Networking" thinking about docs.20:36
koolhead17at sametime we also need to keep distro packagers involved20:36
annegentleI can't spell Folsom20:36
annegentlenotmyname: oh actually, moving the auth middleware into the swift repo is probably easier to explain.20:36
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annegentle#action Anne to send a memo to the mailing list about doc planning for Compute | Storage | Networking20:37
annegentleBasically I want to get some clarity around what is Administration for OpenStack Compute - it involves block storage and networking now20:38
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annegentle(well, when "now" is trunk/folsom)20:38
annegentleSo I need to work on the info architecture for all documentation20:38
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annegentlenotmyname: thanks for the doc requests. I'd like to track with a doc bug  or two - the lack of Swift CLI docs is noted here20:40
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1019718 in openstack-manuals "Need docs for swift CLI comparable to nova CLI" [Medium,Confirmed]20:40
annegentlenotmyname: The move of the keystone auth middleware, not sure that affects docs. More affects packagers - though docs are still needed. I can log a doc bug to track that work.20:41
annegentleOk, anything else?20:42
koolhead17annegentle, it will be good if we can get some help from the distro side20:42
koolhead17as in packagers20:42
annegentleWe need more doc resources all the time :)20:42
annegentleOk, thanks everyone.20:43
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meeting channel. See for schedule and for meeting logs"20:43
openstackMeeting ended Mon Jul  9 20:43:13 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:43
openstackMinutes (text):
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danwentalways first :P21:01
mesterybut just by a millisecond this time! :|21:01
danwentyou're getting closer kyle21:01
* markvoelker reclaims the crown from Mestery21:01
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* mestery thinks the winner should buy beers for everyone else.21:02
danwentok, i believe a few people are out today, probably still recovering from F-221:02
openstackMeeting started Mon Jul  9 21:02:12 2012 UTC.  The chair is danwent. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
danwentgongys: hi21:02
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danwent#link agenda:
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danwent#topic Folsom-2 recap21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Folsom-2 recap"21:03
danwentoverall, a very strong effort from the community.  we had a lot of people really step up, which was great.21:03
danwenthave a few things to wrap up21:03
danwentdhcp is about ready to go in, though there are some issues that we're deferring to separate bugs21:04
danwentgongys: I was mainly looking to get your thoughts on whether there was anything we couldn't defer to seperate bugs.21:04
danwentgongys: where you able to test with null firewall driver in your setup?21:04
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gongysnot. I am testing with firewall driver.21:05
danwentgongys: i filed this to track the issue:
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gongysThat's fine.21:05
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gongysI think it can be dealt with by multi-host dhcp.21:05
gongysor other multi-host features.21:06
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garykdid anyone open a bug regarding the dhcp tap device name?21:06
gongysin which cases, we must expose dhcp server and gateway ips to other system, such as nova.21:06
danwentgaryk: not yet, I don't think.  please do.  there are a couple outstanding issues that we should file before actually approving21:06
gongysSorry, I have approved.21:06
danwentgongys: yes.  gateway ip is already exposed for basic model, though multi-host may be tricky (would ahve to think more)21:07
danwentgongys: no problem.  i'll just go back and look at the comments and make sure there's a bug foreach of them21:07
garykgongys: no problem21:07
markmcclainyeah I've got four bugs to file21:07
danwentmarkmcclain: ok, great.  please not that a few may already be filed (did it this morning).  just search for "dhcp" on that main folsom-3 page21:08
markmcclaindanwent: will do21:08
danwentwe also have the two devstack patches21:08
danwentgaryk's dhcp patch is just waiting on a devstack reviewer:
garykdanwent: ok, thanks21:09
danwent(sorry, wrong patch)21:09
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danwentplus we have arosen's patch for v2 support:
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danwentlooks like he just revved it, so hopefully that's good to go today as well.21:10
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danwentSo i think we can have all the basic stuff in today, assuming we can get dean to help us with a devstack core review.21:10
danwentany other blockers for a basic setup?21:11
danwentI want to make sure everyone is able to get a basic dev setup that they can use for developing F-3 items.21:11
zhanghuathat's cool!21:11
danwent#topic Folsom-321:11
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danwentDue date is Aug. 16th.  4 days before i'm expecting my baby to be born.  Great timing :)21:12
danwenthehe, yeah21:12
gongysWe can defter the f3 4 days.21:13
danwentwe're obviously over subscribed on the release, but I wanted to put a lot there so people had a chance to see everything that's on our plate.21:13
danwentas always, any major item needs to be proposed for a review a week before the branch date.21:13
danwentwhich itself is two days before the release date.21:14
danwentso all features should be in for review by Aug 7th.21:14
danwentThis week, take a look at the list, identify anything you think is missing, and put some thought into what you can work on during F-321:14
danwentSome areas where I have a lot of concern are around Horizon21:15
danwentwe made slow progress on the basic horizon integration during F-1 and F-2, and now arvind is out-of-office.21:15
danwentwe have a set of additional things to do in horizon beyond the base work as well (e.g., floating ips, etc.)21:15
danwentso we could really use someone to step up there.21:15
danwentMulti-host is another area that will need attention21:16
gongyslet me deal with mult-host.21:16
danwentwe split the multi-host dhcp work into another BP.  and we'll likely do the same for the mulit-host L3 stuff.  I'd really like to find someone planning on using multi-host who will put the time into it.21:16
danwentgongys: ok, great.21:17
danwentAnother area were we need some though is a "notifications API", so that elements can register to learn about events in quantum, like when a port is created/updated/deleted or when a floating ip is allocated.21:18
danwentthis is related to some of the RPC work people have been thinking about.21:18
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danwentas much as possible, i'd like this to be a real notifications API, not just a bunch of adhoc RPC calls.21:18
garykdanwent: i am working on the rpc with the scalable agents. hopefully will have linux brdige in soon21:18
danwentthis will let external systems (e.g., ceiliometer) integrate.21:18
danwentgaryk: cool, yes, I haven't looked at that code yet, so I'm not quite sure how it might relate to a notifications API, but it seems like at a high level you need to get notifications that new ports on being created on a particular host, is that correct?21:19
danwent(i.e., the main goal is to avoid polling?)21:19
garykdanwent: yes, that is correct.21:19
garykdanwent: code was working with v1 now upgrading to v2 - ran into rpc issues21:20
danwentok… i'll try and take a look at this soon to figure out how it relates to our goals around notifications.21:20
danwentgaryk: ok, an this is using openstack common rpc, correct?21:20
garykdanwent: yes, that is correct.21:21
danwentok, great21:21
garykbased on and
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danwentAnd the final big area that doesn't have anyone assigned is API quotas and rate-limiting21:22
danwenti'm sure there will be addtional areas where help is needed as well, but I'm just trying to call out major areas where no one has currently been working.21:22
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danwentso expect emails from me in the next week as I try to find people for certain blueprints + bugs.21:23
danwentunlike Essex, folsom-3 is the last iteration in Folsom21:23
danwentso anything that must be in Folsom needs to be completed in this iteration before we go into feature-freeze21:24
garykdanwent: can we also dedicate some time to stable essex at the end of the meeting21:24
danwent(and unlike essex, there's not a really long period for "feature freeze exceptions")21:24
danwentgaryk: good idea.21:24
danwentwill do it right after this section.21:24
danwentany other questions/comments on Folsom-321:24
gongysDan, Do you have any design in your mind about horizon integraton?21:25
rkukuraneed some reviews on provider-networks21:25
danwentgongys: the base work is fairly well flushed out and arvind has a branch (will send out link)21:25
danwentbut we still need to create BPs around additional functionality (e.g., floating IPs)21:25
danwent#todo #danwent make sure additional horizon+quantum BPs are created.21:26
gongysI thin we need get a spec out about what we will expect about horizon integration.21:26
danwentrkukura: salv-orlando is not here, but I've asked him to focus on that review21:26
gongysthin -> think.21:26
rkukuradanwent: thanks. Others welcome too21:27
danwentgongys: yes.  I spoke with arvind about the base integraiton on the phone, and I believe that part is spec-ed out.  But the next steps beyond that are not well-speced.21:27
ncoderkukura: I will look it today21:27
danwent#topic Essex-stable21:28
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danwentgaryk: all yours21:28
garykpedning review -
garykonce this is done we need to add - a cherry pick for
danwentyeah, sorry, i've been ignoring those reviews to focus on F-221:30
garykcan anyone think of any other fixes that need to go in. the sooner we can get tarballs ready the better.21:30
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garyki can send a mail to the list of all of the cherry picking done over the last month or so.21:30
danwentgaryk: yeah, that would be helpful21:31
garykdanwent: ok, i'll do that tomorrow morning21:31
danwentgaryk: great.  thanks for driving the essex/stable stuff21:31
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danwent#topic community topics21:31
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garykwhen do we star to work on gongys-1?21:32
garykthe G version for OpenStack21:32
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danwentSummit is mid-october21:32
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danwentbut the real answer is, once we finish up the critical items for Folsom, and that depends on how quickly we work :)21:33
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danwentusually after the final interation we sliip into a mode focused on testing, bug fixing and documenting.21:33
danwentthen once we're happy with the state of a release, we start thinking about the next summit.21:34
SumitNaiksatamwe need a poll to choose between garyk-1 and gongys-1 :-)21:34
danwentthe actual folsom release date is late september21:34
gongysWhat a bad guy.21:34
garykok, sounds good21:34
gongysI like it.21:34
danwenti still choose grizzly21:34
danwentit would be unfair to pick either garyk or gongy, so grizzly is the clear choice :P21:34
danwentalso, a reminder to sign up for review days:
danwentsome folks have been better at following their review days than others.21:35
garykis thursday a bug triage day?21:35
danwentso far, i haven't written my review monitoring scripts though, so some of you get a pass, for now21:35
danwentgaryk: i heard ttx mention something about a bug triage day21:36
danwentany know for sure21:36
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danwent#todo #danwent look into possible bug triage day21:37
danwentto be honest, i'd probably rather wait until we finish F-3 and to then get a hold on our bugs right before the main bug-fixing period starts21:37
danwentbut we'll see.21:37
danwentone last note:
danwentthis is the new openstack dev mailing list21:38
danwentour plan has been to deprecate the netstack list and move to the main openstack-dev list, now that we're a core project.21:38
danwentall emails related to quantum should have [Quantum] in the subject line21:39
danwenthopefully that will make for easier scanning/filtering21:39
danwentI personaly will probably have two different folders, one for main openstack-dev list and one for openstack-dev tagged with quantum21:39
danwentas its pretty hard to keep up with the overall rate of email on the main openstack list21:40
ncodedanwent: awesome, it will make easy to follow quantum related messages21:40
danwentthe current openstack list will keep being used, but will be focused more on questions about the use of openstack (not dev discussions)21:40
danwent#topics open discussion21:41
danwentanything?  from anyone?21:41
gongysany idea about my spec about floating ips?21:41
zhanghuaI'm going to dedicated to this project.21:41
danwentzhanghua: dedicated to floating IPs?21:42
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zhanghuaI mean, Quantum, network service21:42
danwentzhanghua: ah, great.21:42
danwentzhanghua: there's definitely plenty of work to do, so it will be really helpful21:42
danwentgongys: sent you mail about this.21:43
zhanghuaI have seen a lot of progress here. amazing.21:43
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gongysI have a mail sent back.21:43
danwentgongys: had planned to cover it under:, but would be great to have help with this BP.  So would be great if you could drive the floating IPs side of things.21:43
danwentgongys: ah, ok, am (as always) a bit behind on mail :)21:43
danwentok, anything else?21:44
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gongysAlso I think we should have a spec for each BP before we start work.21:44
danwentbtw, i really want to put together some states on contributions to quantum in the past month or so.  I think the number of commits and number of participatns has really jumped, which is awesome21:44
gongysThis will help reviewing.21:44
danwentgongys: ah, thanks for mentioning that… was on the agenda but i blew past it.21:45
danwentI strongly agree.21:45
danwentfor any significant feature, we should require a spec before reviewing21:45
danwentsometimes its really hard to get the big picture just by wandering through the code in a review21:45
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gongysSometimes, I have to read codes for reviewing, to guess what is for, and how to use it, which is hard.21:45
zhhuabjvery good idea21:46
danwentgongys: definitely.  I'm going to start pinging people for specs earlier in the development cycle as well21:46
danwentif you have something priority high or above, expect to get emails if you don't have a spec up two weeks into the iteration.21:47
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danwent(this doesn't need to be a completely baked spec, but at least the key use cases, basic design, and touch points with other components)21:47
gongysYes, that is enough.21:47
danwentok, anything else folks?21:48
zhhuabjif there is a template ?21:48
danwentzhanghua: a spec template?  not at this point.  it might be helpful to develop a suggested one though.21:49
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danwentinclude sections like "use cases", "new apis", "ipmlementation components", "interactions with external components"21:49
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zhhuabji see21:49
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danwenti dont' think we need to enforce one yet, but we can put together a suggested one on the wiki for anytone who wants guidence21:50
danwentwhat do others think?21:50
mesteryA spec template seems like a really good idea.21:50
zhhuabjdan, zhanghua and me (zhhuabj) are two people21:50
ncodeit's good and will help a lot new contributors21:51
danwent#todo #danwent send out link to suggested spec template21:51
zhanghuaI agree with zhhuabj to have some spec guidance.21:52
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danwentok, anything else folks?21:52
zhanghuaThis will help developer to have a good thinking model.21:53
danwentzhhuabj: hehe, sorry, auto-complete in my irc client :)21:53
danwentgot to pay more attention21:54
danwentok, have a good week folks!21:54
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meeting channel. See for schedule and for meeting logs"21:54
openstackMeeting ended Mon Jul  9 21:54:29 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:54
openstackMinutes (text):
markvoelkerG'night all!21:54
zhanghuaenjoy yourself.21:54
mesteryBye everyone!21:54
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s0miktake care folks!21:57
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