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| jgriffith | #startmeeting | 16:04 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 25 16:04:03 2012 UTC. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:04 |
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| jgriffith | Howdy everyone! | 16:04 |
| DuncanT | Hey | 16:04 |
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| avishay | Hey | 16:04 |
| Vincent_Hou | Hi | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | Alright, so I didn't put up an agenda this week.... | 16:04 |
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| thingee | o/ | 16:05 |
| dricco | hi | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | The only thing listed is dricco's blueprint | 16:05 |
| dricco | first up, wahooooo! | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | So, let's start with that https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/volume-usage-metering | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | dricco: It's all yours | 16:06 |
| dricco | :jgriffith thx | 16:06 |
| dricco | so I went to the ceilometer last week | 16:06 |
| dricco | guys where happy with the blueprint and they were happy with me implementing it in folsom | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | Sounds good... | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | So you're going to be able to tie in with them | 16:07 |
| dricco | after folsom we can then move to ceilometer if we wish | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | ah... sounds like a good plan | 16:07 |
| dricco | yup, going to go to the meeting tomorrow as well | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | great | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | Ok, so my next question... | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | resources? | 16:08 |
| dricco | was hopefully to get have something out for review tomorrow but looks more like friday at best | 16:08 |
| renuka | guessing this will be implemented only for libvirt? | 16:08 |
| Vincent_Hou | merge into ceilometer? | 16:08 |
| thingee | what's the hold up with tying it in now? Sorry not completely aware of their status. Last meeting with them being accepted in core I think they have no api exposed? | 16:08 |
| dricco | renuka: yes | 16:08 |
| renuka | dricco: right, we can look into adding the xenapi support | 16:09 |
| dricco | Vincent_Hou: might be a slight re write but the proof of concept will be there | 16:09 |
| avishay | So this relies on compute to aggregate all of the usage data? | 16:10 |
| dricco | avishay: yes | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | dricco: Then it's not really a "cinder" feature eh? | 16:10 |
| dricco | using a periodic task | 16:10 |
| dricco | jgriffith: for now, no | 16:10 |
| dricco | but i think in the future we might require a process on every compute host? | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | dricco: compute or volume/cinder host? | 16:11 |
| avishay | Some of the backends already collect usage statistics themselves. Maybe that can be used instead or in addition? | 16:11 |
| dricco | compute host | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | dricco: Ok, so this ends up being a nova feature that we just benefit from | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:11 |
| dricco | there is a bandwidth task that collects network usage for instances | 16:11 |
| dricco | :) | 16:12 |
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| dricco | my design follow that current implementation | 16:12 |
| thingee | dricco: sorry I think my question was missed. what's the hold up with tying it into ceilometer now? | 16:12 |
| dricco | it's a requirement for us for folsom | 16:13 |
| thingee | got it | 16:13 |
| dricco | ceilometer won't be released till post folsom | 16:13 |
| thingee | yup yup, sounds good | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | dricco: So really from my perspective on the Cinder side I don't have any real input for you | 16:13 |
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| jgriffith | dricco: I do get weary anytime I see polling in Openstack? | 16:14 |
| dricco | no problem, just wanted to touch base to see if everyone was ok with it | 16:14 |
| thingee | jgriffith, dricco: I'm fine as long as keystone isn't doing it ;) | 16:14 |
| rnirmal | one point would be... some of the volume backends provide this sort of data, is that something we want to consider for this | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | thingee: hehe | 16:14 |
| avishay | It's not clear to me why the statistics collection is done at the compute side and not at the cinder side | 16:14 |
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| rnirmal | instead of tying it into nova-compute | 16:15 |
| avishay | I think even with LVM you can get these kinds of statistics from /proc | 16:15 |
| renuka | dricco: I noticed you do not have rate-of-... in your table. Is that something that could be important | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: You make an excellent point | 16:16 |
| rnirmal | I'm not so sure that's the right approach, also having to do it for each of the hypervisors | 16:16 |
| dricco | renuka: we could deduce from a timestamp and total i/o for that time | 16:16 |
| rnirmal | what if a volume is idle for a period of time... not attached to any compute instances | 16:16 |
| renuka | dricco: Not accurately right. Total is over all attaches, I would expect? | 16:16 |
| rnirmal | you don't get the usage data then | 16:16 |
| thingee | rnirmal: we're already storing other usage info on the compute side for cinder. Doesn't make sense to separate it out even more | 16:16 |
| thingee | rnirmal: it's also temporary. It's going to ceilometer after folsom | 16:17 |
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| rnirmal | thingee: ah ok.. but even is cielometer the right place | 16:17 |
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| jgriffith | rnirmal: That's the whole idea of ceilometer so it's the "right" place I think | 16:18 |
| rnirmal | is it so it's read in a uniform manner irrespective of the volume backends ? | 16:18 |
| dricco | renuka: there is also totals per attach cycle but i take your point. rate-of could be very useful for debugging | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | So here's my thoughts... | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | I think the first step is to implement the blueprint as it's written here | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | I think there's another level of reporting though | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | ie idle volumes etc | 16:19 |
| renuka | dricco: Also useful if the IO is bursty... (if that affects things) | 16:19 |
| dricco | rnirmal: I think we need it calculated on the compute because if we want to charge the customer for the I/O. | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | I think that is something that will need implemented in Cinder | 16:19 |
| dricco | we should charge for what they see | 16:19 |
| avishay | I would also consider adding latency, not just throughput | 16:19 |
| dricco | in /proc/diskstats | 16:19 |
| rnirmal | dricco: ok I don't think I'm totally convinced but I agree this is something to start with | 16:20 |
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| dricco | if you calculate on the backend then you might miss some I/O because of caching etc | 16:20 |
| avishay | I agree with rnirmal | 16:20 |
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| jgriffith | I believer there's a whole seperate set of stats that need gathered that will have to be done in the volume/cinder code | 16:21 |
| renuka | dricco: so in case of remote volumes, where are we running /proc/diskstats? The volumes may not always be visible to the volume service right? | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | and can be implemented via the backends | 16:21 |
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| avishay | dricco, I guess it depends on how the billing is calculated? Maybe they want to charge less for cached I/Os? An incentive to write well-behaved apps? | 16:21 |
| dricco | renuka: mean /proc/diskstats in the vm | 16:22 |
| rnirmal | jgriffith: agree | 16:22 |
| renuka | dricco: ok that makes sense to me. I am still unclear on how we would do it entirely on the cinder side | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | renuka: I don't think that's possible | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | renuka: I think the path dricco is on to start is correct | 16:23 |
| DuncanT | Collection i/o metrics on the server side is interesting too, it is just a different use-case to dricco's work | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | renuka: But I think there's additional info that will be desireable from cinder | 16:23 |
| renuka | jgriffith: gotcha | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | I say dricco should run with what he has | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:24 |
| thingee | +1 | 16:24 |
| rnirmal | dricco: is this just going to be i/o metrics for attached volumes or also root/ephemeral disk ? | 16:24 |
| DuncanT | +1 | 16:24 |
| renuka | +1 | 16:24 |
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| avishay | I think it's a good start, but we should keep in mind for the future that cinder backends could be queried for richer statistics that could be useful for billing, debugging, and for the customer | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | avishay: Agreed | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | I believe there is going to be levels of monitoring/reporting | 16:26 |
| dricco | rnirmal: just for nova volumes in the attached state | 16:26 |
| DuncanT | avishay: We (I work with dricco) have some thoughts on that too (we've implemented a version we use in-house), but not today :-) | 16:26 |
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| avishay | DuncanT: sounds good :) | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | Ok, sounds like we're more or less all in agreement | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | Thanks dricco! | 16:27 |
| dricco | thanks everyone :-) | 16:27 |
| Vincent_Hou | Do we have a uniformed billing model for openstack? i mean, no matter, nova or cinder, all taken into account. | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | I'll look forward to seeing how it all comes out | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | Also, just to be sure, make sure the polling is configurable :) | 16:27 |
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| jgriffith | and can be disabled | 16:27 |
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| jgriffith | ie intervals | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | Vincent_Hou: I thinnk the answer to your question is "no" | 16:28 |
| dricco | jgriffith: will do | 16:28 |
| rnirmal | +1 for disabled, since some providers just charge for the volume gbs | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | Vincent_Hou: But I believe that's part of what ceilo is trying to accomplish | 16:28 |
| Vincent_Hou | all right | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | Ok... | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | #topic status updates | 16:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status updates" | 16:29 | |
| jgriffith | There's been a lot going on the past week with bugs and fixes | 16:29 |
| thingee | Vincent_Hou: http://wiki.openstack.org/EfficientMetering | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | thingee: and Vincent_Hou have been very busy reporting and fixing bugs :) | 16:30 |
| thingee | and backporting to nova! | 16:30 |
| thingee | :D | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | thingee: yes, sadly we're stuck with backporting for now it seems | 16:31 |
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| jgriffith | Vincent_Hou: unfortunately I'm not sure what I'm going to do with your snapshot delete bug | 16:31 |
| avishay | jgriffith: We have seen an issue that attaching a volume fails with our driver - we're debugging now to see if it's something in our driver or generic in cinder | 16:31 |
| Vincent_Hou | well, i have found sth new. | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | avishay: sorry... which driver? | 16:32 |
| Vincent_Hou | i put all my comments within that bug. | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | Vincent_Hou: Yeah, I read that this morning | 16:32 |
| avishay | jgriffith: the storwize_svc driver that we submitted and you reviewed | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | Vincent_Hou: That's what's troubling :) | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | avishay: Ahh.. thanks | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | avishay: You'll have to forgive me, don't always remember irc nicks with those that submit code :) | 16:33 |
| avishay | jgriffith, no problem :) | 16:33 |
| Vincent_Hou | i added one more comment one hour ago. | 16:33 |
| thingee | Vincent_Hou: I can spend sometime tomorrow profiling it on the different ubuntu versions | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | perfect | 16:34 |
| Vincent_Hou | thx, Mike. | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | I'd like to find out how to make this not so miserably slow if we can | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | I've been working on getting devstack to use cinder as default | 16:35 |
| thingee | woo! | 16:35 |
| Vincent_Hou | how is it? | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | I'm hoping the various patches will all land today and we can get this DONE | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | So there were some *problems* | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | Tempest was failing for a number of reasons | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | I have 3 patches in review to fix | 16:36 |
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| * jgriffith is gathering patch id's | 16:36 | |
| jgriffith | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/10200/ | 16:37 |
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| jgriffith | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/10262/ | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/10263/ | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | Speaking of which.... if any of you have time for reviews, I'd really like to get the cinderclient one approved and merged asap | 16:38 |
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| jgriffith | If you would like more explanation of the problems etc let me know and I'm happy to go through it | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | In an nut shell it's tweaks for having a volume service outside of nova | 16:39 |
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| jgriffith | So other than that... | 16:40 |
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| jgriffith | I'd like to get winstond implementation of the snapshots fix in | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | and I still need to get back to the quota issues in the cinderclient | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | I never heard back from clayg, so if anybody has a chance to take a look today it would be VERY helpful | 16:41 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: link? | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | anyone want to have a look at it? | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | thingee: So no link yet | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | Recall from last week I'm having issues getting the endpoints sorted correctly | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | I was able to send quota commands from cinderclient no problem but they pointed to nova :( | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | After tweakign things to make that work I get 404 errors | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | I'm missing something in the extension code I believe but not sure | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Hey... don't let me forget to talk to you later | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | anyway, it's in my github https://github.com/j-griffith/cinder.git and python-cinderclient.git | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | You can get a recap from last weeks meeting minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-07-18-16.01.log.html | 16:45 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: okay | 16:45 |
| DuncanT | Will start looking at those 3 reviews now... can't promise how long I'll get before being pulled of though :-( | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: No worries, the nova folks should handle their two shortly. | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: The main thing from our side is the pythonc-cinderclient review | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: Hate to just +2/A it myself :) | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | alrighty... | 16:46 |
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| jgriffith | #topic user migration (nova-volume to Cinder) | 16:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "user migration (nova-volume to Cinder)" | 16:47 | |
| jgriffith | Once the devstack stuff all lands and the quota pieces are in place... | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | We need to get some tooling and testing for customer migration going | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | Not sure if there are folks here that are interested in looking at this with me? | 16:48 |
| * jgriffith nudges DuncanT | 16:48 | |
| DuncanT | We collectively certainly are | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I believe you have vested interest here :) | 16:48 |
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| DuncanT | I'll get TimR to assign it to somebody officially so tehre is less of the 'didn't have time' issue... We definitely have a vested interest | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | Ok, so that's just a heads up that I'm likely to be bugging a few of you on this | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | Alright... the only other thing that I was interested in was CHAP | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | anybody have any thoughts about implementing CHAP in nova-vol and Cinder? | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | Not necessarily asking you to sign up for the work, but wanting your input | 16:50 |
| bswartz | what's to implement? | 16:50 |
| bswartz | I thought the existing drivers had chap support | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Nope | 16:51 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: Unless something has changed that I'm unaware of :) | 16:51 |
| bswartz | well the drivers have a notion of authentication, with a username and password | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: Some of the backends do their own implementation to make this work, but it's not in the default iSCSI driver | 16:52 |
| bswartz | the actual chap is handled elsewhere ofc | 16:52 |
| bswartz | I never tested it, but I assumed the iscsi initiator on the compute host did the chap authentication | 16:52 |
| bswartz | otherwise what would be the point of having a username and password in the driver? | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | It does if the backend driver implements it and puts it in the model | 16:53 |
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| * jgriffith is looking for the bug on this | 16:54 | |
| DuncanT | We use the provider_loc and provider_auth fields in our driver for something not actually auth related | 16:54 |
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| jgriffith | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1025667 | 16:54 |
| bswartz | that's a broken link for me | 16:55 |
| DuncanT | 'provider_location' sorry | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | yeah, just realized it's not a public page... sorry | 16:55 |
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| jgriffith | alright, well I'll look at this later this week | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | The fact is that chap is not supported by default and it should be | 16:56 |
| bswartz | Well my thinking was that the backend was the right place for stuff like chap authentication. If there is a gain from unifying the implementation, then that's a good idea. | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | or I would *like* it to be | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: yes, the problem is that it's "optional" right now | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: And it's implementation is entirely backend dependent | 16:57 |
| avishay | Does it make sense to integrate with keystone here? I think the last time I thought about it, I came to the conclusion that it doesn't. | 16:57 |
| * jgriffith hears thingee groaning | 16:58 | |
| Vincent_Hou | i agree | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | avishay: Vincent_Hou: Not sure what you have in mind? | 16:58 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: We'd like to bring up the whole attach dataflow path again as a security issue again... it got shelved before but it is something that should be looked at carefully in cinder | 16:59 |
| avishay | jgriffith: for example, storing CHAP tokens in keystone | 16:59 |
| Vincent_Hou | isn't keystone supposed to do the authentication? | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | avishay: that's an idea... | 17:00 |
| thingee | avishay: keystone is for policy and tokens specifically for projects in the openstack family | 17:00 |
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| jgriffith | Vincent_Hou: Yes, but there's a context, and I don't know if this level is quite appropriate | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | Alright, we're out of time... | 17:01 |
| DuncanT | Be aware that some drivers (like ours :-) ) do auth quite differently in a way that looks nothing like chap | 17:01 |
| thingee | whew | 17:01 |
| avishay | Oh, now I remember what the problem was... | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | avishay: ? | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | Ok... hate to cut folks off, but | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | Amazing how quickly this hour goes by every week | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | There's always #openstack-cinder :) | 17:03 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i'll follow up with you in #openstack-cinder | 17:03 |
| jgriffith | avishay: Sounds good | 17:03 |
| jgriffith | Thanks everyone | 17:03 |
| dricco | thx | 17:03 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meeting channel. See http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings for schedule and http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/ for meeting logs" | 17:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 25 17:03:24 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-07-25-16.04.html | 17:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-07-25-16.04.txt | 17:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-07-25-16.04.log.html | 17:03 |
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| Vincent_Hou | c u | 17:03 |
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