Monday, 2012-08-06

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danwenthi folks21:00
zhuadlamotoki: just got your email :-)21:00
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openstackMeeting started Mon Aug  6 21:00:41 2012 UTC.  The chair is danwent. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
danwentarg… tired today.  too much latenight coding :)21:00
danwent#info agenda:
notmynamedanwent: latenight coding or
danwentnotmyname: surprisingly, i've been so out of it, I didn't even hear about that until about an hour ago :)21:01
danwentso, Folsom-321:01
danwenttoday is the day21:01
garykhi all21:02
danwentall reviews for features (i.e., anything with a blueprint) should be in today21:02
danwentthese reviews can be WIP reviews21:02
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danwentbut we at least need to see where things are, and identify big problems early21:02
danwentcode freeze is one week from tomorrow21:02
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SumitNaiksatamHi All!21:03
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danwent:)  frighteningly familar :)21:03
danwentanyone with a blueprint for Folsom-3 that does not expect to have a WIP posted today?21:03
edgarmaganadanwent: even code enhancements should go in today?21:04
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danwentanything that is either a key deliverable in the release, or has impact on other chunks of code.21:04
nati_uenoHows's this ?21:04
danwentedgarmagana: are you talking about the item that is specific to cisco plugin?21:04
danwentI suppose if its impact is scoped to the plugin, that's up to you.21:05
edgarmaganadanwent: ah ok.. I have time then! This does not impact anything21:05
danwentbut remember that reviewer load will be very heavy early next week.21:05
markmcclaindanwent: It's likely that the DHCP+RPC WIP won't be posted until the morning21:05
edgarmaganadanwent: Yes, I am21:05
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danwentmarkmcclain: ok, good to know.21:05
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danwentyes, RPC stuff is one of the things I'm expecting to drag out a bit.21:06
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salv-orlandonvp-v2-plugin is also scheduled to come late night (although maybe it WIP-able right now)21:06
garykmarkmcclain, you based on
markmcclaingaryk: yes and also the OVS one too21:07
nati_uenoIf no one do expose-dhcp-server-ip, I can submit it today21:07
danwentok, so other than RPC stuff for both DHCP + my L3 branch, I think we're mostly on target.21:07
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garykmarkmcclain, cool21:07
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danwentnati_ueno: ok, sounds good.21:07
danwentnati_ueno: that one is small enough (I hope) that even if you waited another day or two, I think you would be ok.21:07
danwentnot to encourage you to delay or anything… :P21:08
nati_uenodanwent: OK I got it. Could you assign the bp for me?21:08
danwentnati_ueno: done21:08
nati_uenodanwent: Thanks21:08
danwentoh, the one other item is v1 removal21:09
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danwenti think i'll whip up something quick on that tonight, so people can at least see what is coming down the pipe.21:09
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carlpI have one issue I found, and I'm not sure if it's already covered.  If you have overlapping IP ranges, then the metadata server does not work. I have some thoughts on how to fix this, but I wanted to see if anyone else had any work/plans on this...21:10
garykdanwent, i can help with the v1 if you want21:10
danwentok, so other than having gobs of code to review in the next week, sounds like things are moving forward.21:10
danwentgaryk: already have some of it local.  if I don't get to it tonight, will let you know21:10
garykdansmith, ok21:10
danwentcarlp: i was dealing with that over the weekend too.21:10
danwentcarlp: want to create an item to track work on that and to discuss possible designs?21:11
carlpdanwent: yes21:11
garykdanwent, carlp , can you guys please elaborate on the problems21:11
rkukuradanwent: Will there be much file renaming (i.e. removing v2 from filenames)?21:11
danwenti have a feeling there are a few issues lurking in the nova + quantum v2 integration that we have yet to fully iron out.21:11
danwentrkukura: I was not planning on removing v2 from file names… i figured there's no need to introduce churn21:12
rkukuradanwent: agreed21:12
danwentgaryk: nova's metadata server uses the source IP of a metadata request to map to a particular instance.21:12
carlpgaryk: Sure.  When using the new IPAM stuff, you can have multiple networks with the same IP address ranges.  When that happens, the metadata server (which only goes by the IP of the VM) can't figure out what to do21:12
carlpin our implementation, everyone has the same private IP space by default21:13
garykdanwent, carlp tx21:13
danwentcarlp: can you create a lp issue and assign it to F-3?21:13
salv-orlandodanwent: It is probably just me not being able to do a proper search on launchpad, but it seems we also need to track the issue concerning having nova security groups work with Quantum (mostly for the dhcp_server bit)21:13
carlpdanwent: on it21:13
danwentwe at least want to keep it on our radar for F-3, even if we can't do anything in that time frame21:13
danwentsalv-orlando: that was the motivation for the BP that nati_ueno just took, right?21:13
danwentor was there more?21:14
danwentthough there's extra nova work as well to grap that IP and put it in the network object21:14
salv-orlandook so I was looking in the wrong place.. bugs - I should have been looking in bps21:14
danwentok, anything else before we move on to key reviews?21:15
danwentOne thing to note: given the extremely heavy review load at the end of F-3, remember to prioritize reviews based on the priority of the associated bp/bug in launchpad21:16
danwentok, first review to cover21:16
danwentgaryk's rpc branch21:16
danwentthis has been pretty picked over, garyk, is this good to go in your opinion?21:17
danwentany outstanding issues?21:17
danwentalso, there's a devstack review for that branch:
danwentgaryk, which should be merged first?21:17
garykcorrect. linux bridge is ready to go. ovs needs a little work21:17
garykdevstack first21:17
danwentok… i'll ping dean once I've +2'd the devstack review.21:17
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danwentsalv-orlando:  public networks.21:18
salv-orlandocomments addressed. just pushed another patch for review.21:18
garyki had a problem with this one - maybe my misunderstanding. was only able to create private networks21:18
danwentok, do we have two cores working on reviewing the patch already21:18
salv-orlandogaryk: I was writing you an email.21:19
garyksalv-orlando: great. if it is my bad you have +221:19
salv-orlandohowever, bottom line is that you can create network with permission 0644 only if you're admin21:19
salv-orlandounless you remove the appropriate line from policy.json21:19
garyktx, i'll give it a bash21:19
danwentok.  i will try and be the second core on that one21:20
danwentI also wanted to call attention to the quantum + horizon review:
danwentwould be good to get some reviewers/testers from quantum to look at this.21:20
danwentamotoki: anything to report on this?  looks like unit tests for horizon where having issues?21:21
amotokiAlmos all features have been implemented.21:21
amotokiI informed Gabriel that it is ready for review just before the meeting. I will also send an email after the meeting.21:21
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danwentamotoki: great.  i'm guessing gabriel will want to have unit tests working before a review though21:22
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danwentdo you know why they are failing in jenkins?21:22
amotokiregarding unit test, jenkins uses the released version of quantumclient.21:22
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amotokiit seems be the reason jenkins fails.21:22
amotokiI will talk with Gabriel about that.21:23
danwentah, ok.  please include monty + james blair on those dicussions, as me as well.21:23
danwentcarlp: thanks.21:23
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danwentmonty and james manage the jenkins infrastructure.21:23
amotokiI also saw the thread on ML about glanceclient.21:24
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danwentjeblair: hi, does jenkins run horizon unit tests with trunk versions of other clients, or a past release version?21:24
danwentwe need it to run with the latest of our client, since only that version has v2 API support.21:24
salv-orlandodidn't we had the same issue with nova when we did the quantum v2 integration?21:24
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jeblairthe unit tests run in a virtualenv with the versions of other software as specified in pip requires21:25
jeblairdanwent: so the solution is probably to make sure that the versions you need are released, and then specify those versions in pip-requires21:25
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jeblair(it should be easier for client libs to release now, the ptls just need to tag them.)21:26
danwentjeblair: yes, though i'm a bit anxious about doing a release until the stuff has had more testing...21:27
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jeblairdanwent: which client?21:27
danwentok, we can take this offline.21:27
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danwentbut come to think of it, i'm not sure why the horizon unit tests necessarily even require the client library21:28
danwentah, forget it, probably imports.21:28
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danwentamotoki: ok, let's work with gabriel to get to the bottom of these unit test issues asap21:28
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danwentplease send mail out to all of us.21:28
amotokianyway i wil check the error reports after the meeting.21:28
jeblairdanwent: sounds good.21:29
danwentok, next review21:29
amotokii wil send the status update to related peoples.21:29
danwentnati_ueno: this is devstack exercise script for quantum with v2 support21:29
nati_uenoIt is testing very simple test case now.21:30
danwentthis is critical to getting quantum to be part of the commit gating21:30
danwentnati_ueno: we also need to work with markmcclain, as once the dhcp namespaces stuff goes in, this will cause issues, right?21:30
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danwentas the test host will no longer have an IP to ping the network directly?21:31
nati_uenodanwent: Yes it true. After that one is merged, I'll update devstack21:31
garykdanwent: namespaces may be problmatic with different linux flavors21:31
danwentok.  markmcclain's patch is pretty small, so we should be able to merge it soon,  would be good to have devstack change ready.21:31
markmcclaindanwent: yes we'll have to update the code to properly cleanup namespaces when someone unstacks21:31
danwentmarkmcclain: agreed21:31
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danwentgaryk: what kernels will have problems?21:32
danwentnamespaces have been around for a while, right?21:32
danwentor is it not a kernel issue?21:32
garyki had problems with ubuntu 11. have yet to try fedora 1721:32
nati_uenoubuntu11 not support namespace21:32
garykmark can maybe add some more info21:32
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garykis this a limitation that we can live with?21:33
danwentis it that they did not support namespaces, or that namespace where configured using a different utility?21:33
danwentnamespaces have been around since 2.6.2721:33
danwentaccording to google21:33
markmcclainubuntu 11 does not "ip netns"21:33
danwentyeah, that was my guess...21:34
markmcclainthe kernel itself doesn't support it21:34
danwentoh really? what kernel is ubuntu 11?  or is it just that it wasn't enabled?21:34
salv-orlandothe latter I believe21:34
rkukuraI think the version of iproute2 in RHEL and maybe other distros doesn't support netns21:34
nati_uenoAh it support namespace but it is different spec for ubuntu1121:34
salv-orlandothe vanilla kernel is compiled without support for netns21:34
garyki think that this is certainly something that we should consider for deployments and usage21:35
amotokiUntil Folsom release, we need to clarify which kernel version supports namespace.21:36
markmcclainyeah… I was wondering what our minimum supported versions21:36
danwentyes, though it seems like the tricky thing is not saying what kernel version, so much as what distros have namespaces enabled21:36
markmcclainNova says 12.04+ and f16+21:36
danwentgaryk: can you check out the status of namespaces on fedora?21:37
markmcclainf17 has them21:37
danwent(as a TODO)21:37
garykdanwent: ok21:37
markmcclainI've testing with based on garyk's feedback21:37
danwentanyway, at this point, for Folsom I don't see many alternatives to using namespaces.21:37
danwentdoes anyone see alternatives?21:38
salv-orlandonothing that can be ready for folsom21:38
garykmarkmcclain: i am using f16 not 1721:38
salv-orlandoI think we can already make them optional, scarfing the ability of having overlapping cidr, is that right?21:39
salv-orlandoI meant "sacrificing" not "scarfing"21:39
danwentit would be possible to run a dhcp + l3 agent that is dedicated to a single router21:39
danwentand you could run this in an isolated VM if you really had to (the one vm per tenant model)21:39
danwentbut other than that, I can't see many options of avoiding namespaces21:40
salv-orlandodanwent: agreed. But do you see this feasible for folsom?21:40
danwentsalv-orlando: you mean making the agents support just taking care of a single router?21:40
salv-orlandoI mean running the agents in a separate VMs. We will need to take care of the life cycle of these vms21:41
danwentfor the l3-agent its pretty simple, and I'm guessing it wouldn't be a major change for the dhcp stuff, but its more work at a time when we already have plenty to do :)21:41
salv-orlandoand also prepare an image21:41
danwentsalv-orlando: ah, wasn't talking about managing vm life-cycle21:41
danwentjust modifying the agents so that someone could use them in such a use case if they where managing vm life-cycle themselves.21:41
danwent#todo: #garyk #danwent define minimum distro version requirements for overlapping IPs21:42
salv-orlandoI see your point. Maybe we can move it to the mailing list. Shouldn't be an issue once RPC is in place.21:42
danwentmarkmcclain: how hard it is to have a version of the dhcp stuff that doesn't use namespaces… from what I remember in the code, should be relatively straightfoward?21:43
markmcclaindanwent: it's easy to make it configurable21:43
markmcclainit's really dependent on the interface driver in use21:43
danwentok… so good that we identified this as an issue.  Let's move it to the ML21:43
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danwentmarkmcclain: mmm…. not sure I follow, but we can talk more on ML21:43
danwentdamn, we're still in the reviews section of the agenda21:44
danwentok, any other important community reviews that anyone needs to call out?21:44
salv-orlandoYeah this meeting it's going to last till dawn for me and garyk :)21:45
danwentok, XML support21:45
salv-orlandoI'm reviewing andrews' patch21:45
danwent(we're on to design issues section)21:45
salv-orlandoBut I will commit the review in the morning...21:45
danwentnati_ueno: did you say that vishy is planning on dropping XML support from nova?21:45
danwentif so, i'd move to drop XML support from quantum21:45
nati_uenodanwent: Yes We discuss it in nova meeting.21:45
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danwenteven if we get this patch merged, i still think there's a lot of overhead dealing with XML, and we have the issue that XML can't communicate the notion of null/None21:46
danwentwhat do others thing on this topic?21:46
rkukuraI was curious if/how extended attributes would be supported, but haven't had time to look21:47
salv-orlandoI think that as we're introducing a new version of the API, which is not bw-compatible21:47
salv-orlandothis is the time to make a decision21:47
danwentsalv-orlando: agreed.21:47
salv-orlandoif we vote for xml support now, we'll have to maintain it at least until Qauntum v3 is released21:47
salv-orlandoextended attributes might be supported with xml namespaces, but some work is perhaps required on the patch21:48
danwentok, so i'm not hearing any strong input, so how about i'll rephrase.  Is anyone against eliminating XML support, as long as nova does not support XML either.21:48
salv-orlandoI think null values might be supported through empty elements, but still need to check for feasibility21:48
danwentsalv-orlando: my question there was how to tell the difference between empty string and Null21:48
gongysIs it XML mandatory? If not, defer it.21:48
jkoelker+1 for dropping xml, I don't recal the exact percentage, but it was a small percentage of our traffic is xml21:48
salv-orlandoI'd like to hear about this from people who put Quantum in production21:49
jkoelkerwe use json exclusively for quantum communication21:49
salv-orlandojkoelker must have read my mind21:49
danwentok, so i'll plan on removal21:49
danwenti'll confirm with ttx21:49
nati_uenoFYI nova discussion about xml it start from about 21:16:05
* _cerberus_ hugs danwent21:49
danwentnati_ueno: great, thanks21:50
danwent_cerberus_: now that's a first :P21:50
_cerberus_You're right, usually I'm more suggestive21:50
danwentok, nati_ueno, so assuming we remove XML, then for the gateway_ip issue you wanted to discuss, can we just use json null?21:50
salv-orlando<note xml="adios"><bye></bye></note>21:50
nati_uenodanwent: Sorry removing XML is not decided yet. But nova guys are going to propose it as the log21:51
danwentgongys: is there a way to pass in null values in the CLI?21:51
nati_uenodanwent: I agree for just use json null21:51
danwentok, i'll follow up with gongys later21:51
danwentNext topic, to keep things moving21:52
danwentextensions that introduce new resources21:52
danwentSumitNaiksatam, gongys, and I all have the same need, which is to have an extension that introduces a new resource21:52
salv-orlandoon previous topic (null values), nati_ueno started a thread on the ml. Please share your thoughts there21:52
gongysMy quota is using this.21:52
gongysintroduce new resouce in ext.21:53
danwentgongys: yes21:53
nati_uenoMetaplugin will add flavor resource in ext21:53
salv-orlandowhy the existing framework is not good enough?21:53
garykone thing is lacking - in some cases extensions are valid to all plugins - for example quotas21:53
danwentsalv-orlando: there's no way to introduce a new resource that automatically takes advantage of all of the resouce-goodness from jkoelker's API framework.21:53
salv-orlandoOk, so I suspected this. Basically the issue is that currently extensions kind of live in a world of their own.21:54
danwentin my l3 patch, I took an approach similar to what rkukura did for attributes, where the main API code asks each extension whether there are any new resources it wants to introduce.21:54
salv-orlandodanwent: you're not using anymore an extension middleware?21:55
danwentsalv-orlando: yes, so you can continue to have them in their own world, but then they don't take advantage of validation, policy, generic code, etc.21:55
danwentsalv-orlando: correct21:55
danwentanyway, I will have a WIP up by tonight, but this is something we need to agree on a single approach for doing and tackle21:55
gongysNO, in quota ext, I am using the generic validation code.21:55
jkoelkerthere is nothing to say they could not use their own mapper and then use it all21:55
salv-orlandodanwent: agreed.21:55
gongysWe just need to use the same prepare_body_xx() (I forget the function name) function as base code does.21:56
danwentgongys: ok, I will take a look.  My main motivation was not actually around validation, so perhaps there's a way to leverage that some other way.21:56
danwentgongys: agreed.21:56
salv-orlandoI think we can make the code base a whole lot leaner if we just map extensions with the same criteria we use for base resources.21:57
rkukuradanwent: I like the approach you were suggesting21:57
salv-orlandoWe just need a slightly different approach for loading extensions.21:57
danwentsalv-orlando: that is how i'm leaning as well.21:57
danwentok, so if someone wants to drive this, let me know.  otherwise, i'll slice off the related code from my patch, and propose it.21:58
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salv-orlandoI would love to lead, but I will be offline wednesday and part of thursday this week.21:58
danwentok, we have one more design topic, but we're at the end of our time.21:58
gongysI have reexamined the whole extension framework in nova project. After removing v1 code, I want to refactor the quantum extension framework21:58
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danwentso I'll quickly open it up for open discussion, then anyone who wants to discussion multi-host dhcp can stick around after.21:59
rkukuragongys: that sounds like a good summit session to me21:59
danwentgongys:  for folsom, or later?  I don't think we have time for anything significant in folsom21:59
salv-orlandoI have a quick comment on the failing tests for horizon: #from .tables import DetailsTable21:59
salv-orlando38from .subnets.tables import SubnetsTable21:59
salv-orlando39#from .subnets.views import CreateView as AddSubnetView21:59
salv-orlando40from .ports.tables import PortsTable21:59
danwent#topic open discussion21:59
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salv-orlandosorry did not meant to press enter before open discussion :)21:59
salv-orlandoseems line 40 should be commented out22:00
danwentok, any other open discussion?22:00
gongysflaoting ips for nova integration?22:00
amotokisalv-orlando: thanks. i'll check it.22:00
danwentalso remember to sign up for a review day if you haven't already:
nati_uenoCan we discuss about multi-host?22:00
danwentgongys: there's a bug for that in F-3.  will have proposed new floating-ip calls up in WIP branch tonight22:01
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danwentso we can start working on it as soon as tomorrow.22:01
danwentnati_ueno: yup, just after open discussion22:01
danwentgongys: did you want to work on that?22:01
nati_uenodanwent: I got it22:01
danwentI can point you to the bugs22:01
danwentgongys: #102316922:01
danwentone is for reporting floating ips in commands like nova list22:02
danwentother is for proxying nova floating ip calls to quantum22:02
danwentok, let's wrap this up.  otherws are welcome to stay for multi-host discussion22:02
danwentthanks folks, have a good week, please remember to spend a lot of cycles reviewing this week.  its crunch time :)22:03
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openstackMeeting ended Mon Aug  6 22:03:08 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:03
openstackMinutes (text):
danwentgongys: make sense?22:03
danwentnati_ueno: markmcclain  chat about multi-host dhcp?22:03
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gongysI will have a try. But I need the floating features available in quantum.22:03
danwentgongys: yup, i can point you to the branch now (on my github) or the WIP branch will be available tonight on review.openstack.org22:04
nati_uenoYusuke updated white board
garykgood night guys.22:04
danwentgaryk: night!22:04
nati_uenogaryk: Good night!22:04
salv-orlandobye garyk22:05
nati_uenoSlide is
markmcclaingaryk: night22:05
nati_uenoYou can also put comment on the slide22:05
nati_uenoSo my concern is host selection in dhcp-agent22:06
nati_uenoIMO, multi-host is one use case pattern.22:06
nati_uenoI discussed this with Dan in this morning22:07
nati_uenoConclusion is something like page 922:07
nati_uenoIn page 9, each plugin will implement a python method  get_local_port_ids22:08
nati_uenoThis could be one of BridgeInterfaceDriver method22:08
markmcclainnati_ueno: why is locality so important?22:08
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nati_uenoAh It is needed for multi-host22:09
nati_uenoSo IMO multi-host is one usecase of scheduling problem I noted in page 722:10
danwentwe could potentially make this part of the "interface_driver" concept that exists already22:10
danwentnati_ueno: i really don't feel like multihost is a case of scheduling22:10
danwentwhat is the "unit" being scheduled?22:10
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nati_uenodanwent: Yes I know. So we should share difinitions22:11
danwentits not dhcp for a particular network/subnet22:11
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danwentas seems to be implied by all of the graphics22:11
danwentas in multi-host, dhcp for a single network is spread across all hosts with a VM on that network22:11
danwentso while I could see a use case where there is a DHCP scheduler in quantum, I don't see multi-host as one of those use cases.22:11
nati_uenoSo I stop use the term "scheduling",22:12
nati_uenoI use network-selection in dhcp-agenet.22:13
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nati_uenomulti-host is one of network-selection usecase22:13
danwentwho is selecting networks?22:13
salv-orlandoI'm not sure I follow22:14
danwentsign, ok, let's forget abotu naming for a bit, as its not really the issue anway22:14
nati_uenoDHCP-agent will select network using get_local_port_ids()22:14
danwentbasically, each agent needs to figure out the set of subnets that are "active" on the local host, where a subnet is "active" on a host if there is a VM on that host with an IP in that subnet22:15
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danwentdo we agree with that statement (even if we don't agree on terminology?)22:15
nati_uenoI agree22:15
salv-orlandoI agree22:15
salv-orlandoWhen I looked at those slides, the reason IMHO behind get_local_port_ids was for dhcp_agent to respond only to requests from VMs on the same host. But apparently it seems it's quite different.22:17
markmcclainI understand the statement, but I not sure I under why that it important22:17
danwentok, and one way to find out the set of "active" subnets, would be to find out each "active" port, and then query for info about those ports to identify their subnet_ids.22:18
markmcclainright but if the tenant vms are scattered across multiple hosts you end up with lots of DHCPOFFERS22:19
danwentI think the root of the issue is that while with the OVS plugin, its trivial to find out what the set of local port-ids is (since they are an attribute of the port in the OVSDB), it may be harder to do this for linux bridge22:19
danwentmarkmcclain: actually, i think the idea is that you populate dnsmasq conf only with the mappings for VMs that are on the same host.22:19
danwentbut i'm not here to defend multi-host… i think its pretty broken for other reasons22:20
danwentbut some people find it useful, so we're going to try and support it :)22:20
salv-orlandodanwent: I agree on the principle, though I too am not a huge fan of multi-host22:20
danwenti just don't want to contort the whole quantum architecture in order to support multi-host22:20
salv-orlandoActually instead of replicating what nova does, IMHO multi-host implementation for quantum should just avoid all those broadcasts to leave the virtual switches22:21
danwentok, I have to run to a meeting soon22:21
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danwentactually, like right now.22:21
danwentbut I still have concerns over a multi-host design.22:22
danwentwill follow up on the blueprint page22:22
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nati_uenoOK let's continue in bp page and mailing list22:22
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