Thursday, 2012-09-06

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nijaba#startmeeting Ceilometer15:00
nijaba#meetingtopic Ceilometer15:00
nijaba#chair nijaba15:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep  6 15:00:36 2012 UTC.  The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:00
openstackCurrent chairs: nijaba15:00
nijabaHello everyone! Show of hands, who is around for the ceilometer meeting?15:00
nijabagreat, looks like almost a full house!15:01
nijaba#topic actions from previous meeting15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:01
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nijaba#topic dhellmann to move summit proposal outlines to the wiki and email links to the dev mailing list15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann to move summit proposal outlines to the wiki and email links to the dev mailing list (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:01
nijabaThis was done and is now available at
nijabaMore to come on the subject in a few minutes15:01
nijaba#topic nijaba to open a bug for cookbook and assign to jaypipes15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to open a bug for cookbook and assign to jaypipes (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:02
nijabaDone as well. Bug #104640415:02
nijabaJaypipes started working on it yesterday. Do you want to comment about it Jay?15:02
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1046404 in ceilometer "Ceilometer would welcome a chef cookbook" [Low,In progress]
nijabaWell, jay may come back to it later...15:02
nijaba#topic nijaba to add architecture image to project /doc rather than link from google & to include a comment in the rst file linking to the google document where you build the image, so we can remember where it is later15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to add architecture image to project /doc rather than link from google & to include a comment in the rst file linking to the google document where you build the image, so we can remember where it is later (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:03
nijabaThis was merged:
nijabaThat's it for last week's action, should we move on?15:03
dhellmannand the image is at
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nijabahello jd___!15:03
nijaba#topic Discussion on session proposal for the summit15:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Discussion on session proposal for the summit (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:04
nijabaAny comments about these proposals?15:04
nijabaDoes anyone else see other sessions we should be hosting at the dev summit?15:04
dhellmannnijaba: based on ttx's email about the sessions, I wonder if the "State Of" session should really be done the way it's described. It seems more presentation-like than discussion.15:05
dhellmannI didn't realize they wanted to make that distinction this time15:05
dhellmannor maybe it has always been that way and I just didn't pick up on it during the folsom summit15:05
nijabadhellmann: I think it should be a workshop, but preparing content to level set everyone is always a good idea15:05
dhellmannok, that works15:05
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dhellmannleave plenty of time for discussion of future work?15:06
dhellmannI'll make a note of that on the wiki page15:06
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nijabaanything else?15:06
nijabaWho is planning being at the summit?15:07
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dhellmannangus' latest message on the mailing list implies he is coming, too15:07
nijabaI assumed he would15:07
dhellmannnijaba: we should set up an openspace session to work through the metering vs. monitoring discussion15:08
dhellmannor is that part of beyond metering...15:08
nijabathat was the goal of the beyong metering session15:08
dhellmannoops, right, forgot15:08
nijabaand this is were angus will be very welcome :)15:09
nijabanot that he would not be in other sessions too15:09
ttxnijaba: fwiw, we have 3 extra rooms at the design summit. At least one of them should be organized with round tables... so there should be room for you to meet15:09
ttxeven if no official "topic" is set15:09
spninterface for ceilometer is also a part of beyond metering?15:09
spni meant in horizon15:09
nijabattx: do you think it is ok for us to ask fro 3 sessions?15:09
nijabaspn: no, would consider that fit in normal future work15:10
ttxnijaba: it's ok for you to occupy one of the round tables in the free room... and probably ok to book space in the other two for 3 sessions15:10
dhellmannspn: that's on the list for the "state of" session under "grizzly work to be done"15:10
ttxnijaba: especially early in the summit15:10
ttxwhen nobody rushes to get them15:10
nijabattx: but can we be mentioned in the official program?15:11
spndhellman: yes.. sorry missed that15:11
ttxnijaba: that's a more tricky question. I don't think anyone will take up the hassle of syncing the unconference whiteboard with "the official program"15:11
ttxnijaba: but there should be opportunities to publicize it15:12
nijabattx: let's take this offline.15:12
nijabashall we move to the next topic?15:13
nijaba#action nijaba to see with ttx how our sessions can be shown on official program15:14
nijaba#topic Discussion on alternating meeting time to allow presence from down under15:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Discussion on alternating meeting time to allow presence from down under (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:14
nijabaThe result of the meeting time poll left out Angus.  The new meeting time that was selected makes it a 1AM meeting for him.15:14
nijabaI have seen other projects have meeting time alternate to allow for a larger representation from around the globe.  For example, we could hold meeting at 3PM UTC on even weeks and at 9PM UTC on odd weeks.  What would you think of this?15:14
gmbWorks for me.15:14
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nijabaThis could also help us recruit more from asia15:15
dhellmannthe idea is fine, I need to convert those times to see if they actually work for me15:15
spn9PM -> 2.30AM15:15
nijabaah, then not so muc15:15
zigoThe current meeting is like 11pm.15:16
zigoThat's fine for me.15:16
zigoLater it wouldn't.15:16
dhellmannnijaba: both of those times work for me15:16
zigo(shanghai time)15:16
spnIndia current 8.30 PM is good.. :-)15:16
dacharyworks for me too15:17
nijabaso I guess 9PM UTC would be fine from western europe (11pm) to Autralia (inlcuding us)15:17
spnzigo: what is 9PM UTC for you?15:18
zigoThat's 5am, Shanghai time, that's like crazy !15:18
zigoI wouldn't *not* attend.15:18
zigoSorry. I wouldn't be there.15:18
nijabayup, but you could still attend on even weeks... which is the goal of alternating times15:19
zigoFine then.15:19
dhellmannis there some way we could move more discussion to the mailing list, too?15:19
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jd___dhellmann: +115:19
nijabadhellmann: feel free to continue on the thread I started there15:19
nijabaor create a new one even15:19
dacharyzigo: you have a baby, you don't sleep at 5am ;-)15:19
dhellmannnijaba: I meant the sorts of things that we would discuss on IRC could also be discussed on the mailing list in some cases.15:20
spnon ML is anytime good15:20
zigodachary: He actually wakes up at 6am, and *my wife* gets up! :)15:20
nijabaand I think we are, most of the time15:20
dhellmannnijaba: true15:20
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nijaba#startvote should we hold our meetings at alternating times on even and odd weeks? Yes, No15:21
openstackBegin voting on: should we hold our meetings at alternating times on even and odd weeks? Valid vote options are Yes, No.15:21
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.15:21
dhellmann#vote yes15:21
jd___#vote yes15:21
nijaba#vote Yes15:21
zigo#vote yes15:21
gmb#vote yes15:21
zigoIs this case sensitive? :)15:21
nijabaplease use Yes, not yes15:21
nijabazigo, it is15:21
dachary#vote yes15:21
zigo#vote Yes15:21
gmb#vote Yes15:21
dhellmann#vote Yes15:21
dachary#vote yes15:22
dachary#vote Yes15:22
zigoAnyway, we all agree.15:22
openstackVoted on "should we hold our meetings at alternating times on even and odd weeks?" Results are15:22
openstackYes (6): dachary, nijaba, dhellmann, gmb, zigo, jd___15:22
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nijabaok, so next week's meeting will be at 9PM UTC15:23
nijaba#action nijaba to update meeting page to note new alternating meeting time15:23
nijaba#topic Release management15:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Release management (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:24
nijabaas we are nearing the release of folsom, I think it would be great to try to release a first cut of Ceilometer in parallel to it. In order to do so, I think that we would need to have a "release manager" to keep us all on track for this delivery.  What do you think? Any volunteer?15:24
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eglynn__FYI weekly nova meeting also on Thurs at 2100 UTC15:24
gmbI'm happy to take on the responsibility for that15:24
nijabaeglynn__: ouch...15:24
nijabashould have checked that15:25
eglynn__here are the taken slots ...
nijabaeglynn__: I know where to check, jus tforgot to do t15:25
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nijabaanyone which to challenge gmb's offer to act as release manager for this release?15:26
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dhellmannthanks for volunteering, gmb!15:27
gmbIt fits in well with the recruiting of my team.15:27
nijaba#action gmb to act as release manage!15:27
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nijabaso now, let's discuss what is there to be done...15:27
nijabaIn term of actions the list doug and I came up with is as follow:15:28
nijaba1/ to review which feature we really need to have before calling it a first release15:28
nijaba2/ to define a feature cut off date15:28
nijaba3/ to have some qa/bug fixes done15:28
nijaba4/ to ensure that documentation is aligned with the code, as well as15:28
nijabadeployment instructions that have been tested15:28
nijaba5/ to decide on a versioning scheme and release channels15:28
nijaba Anything else that we forgot?15:28
zigoHas anyone started doing some .deb packaging?15:28
nijabazigo: I think zul has15:28
zulnijaba: i looked at, i havent had a chance to start it yet15:29
dacharythere is a ppa somewhere, not sure it's up to date though15:29
zigoSo it should be set in the agenda, IMO.15:29
zulnijaba: lets talk after the meeting15:29
nijabazul: k15:29
dhellmannzul: would the packaging instructions need to go in the ceilometer repo, or do those live somewhere else?15:29
dhellmanneither is fine, I'm just curious about how that works15:30
zuldhellmann: they live somewhere else15:30
nijabadhellmann: the practice is to have no pkg in the upstream repo15:30
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jaypipesnijaba: I'm going to make ceilometer recipes in the main nova cookbook for now, then once the nova db stuff is separated from ceilometer, I will push a separate ceilometer cookbook.15:30
nijabapackaging is "a distro thing", not an upstream thing.  So I think we should concentrate on producing a tarball15:31
dhellmannjaypipes: it's looking like that change won't happen until grizzly15:31
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dhellmannnijaba: "python sdist"?15:31
nijabawhy not15:31
zulnijaba:  yes please :)15:32
dhellmannworks for me, I just wasn't sure it was "enough" for anyone else15:32
nijabagmb: ?15:32
jaypipesdhellmann: no? ok, no worries, I will hurry up on the recipes int he nova cookbook then.15:32
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gmbnijaba, I'm happy with a tarball and setup.py15:32
dhellmannjaypipes: yeah, time is running out15:32
nijabadhellmann: looks like we would also need some example conf...15:32
zigoI was to propose myself to help on that... :)15:32
dhellmannnijaba: that should be easy to add to the sdist using a manifest15:33
nijabazigo: which that?15:33
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nijabazigo: then please sync with zul15:33
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dhellmannand please cc the openstack-dev mailing list so the rest of us can eavesdrop on the conversation!15:34
nijabaRegarding 1/ what do you think is really missing at the moment? Doug mentioned the API being a bit thin and Angus the auth on the API being a big need.  What else?15:34
nijabaWe had quite a few expectation for folsom-3 as described on but only one has been completed AFAICS. Noticeably, we currently have no coverage for anything outside of Nova.15:34
nijabaI think metering for swift and cinder would be really helpful...15:35
dhellmannadding auth to the api is actually bigger than wrapping the app with the middleware. all of the endpoints assume an admin user right now, which would have to change to include more complicated logic about users asking for data about other accounts.15:35
dhellmannyes, we're going to need cinder at DreamHost15:35
jd___dhellmann: we may use the policy system used by keystone/nova probably?15:36
nijabadhellmann: yup, I talked with jonathan last week, and that seemed a biggie.  not swift though ;)15:36
dhellmannright, not swift :-)15:36
nijabaanyone caring about swift?15:37
dhellmannjd___: I don't know enough about the policy system to comment. Does it let you check if users have admin rights on specific projects? the project id would be in the URL15:37
jd___dhellmann: yes, you map user/tenant/role to whatever you need in your app15:38
dhellmannjd___: that sounds like it should be usable then15:38
nijabado you guys really want to see me coding?  I could try to add a few bugs for the swift implementation...15:40
eglynn__no metering coverage for glance either as yet, presumably?15:40
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nijabaeglynn__: nope, not yet15:41
eglynn__(I *may* have some time available to look into that next week ...)15:41
nijabaeglynn__: bug #100446215:41
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1004462 in ceilometer "Listen for Glance notifications" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
dhellmanneglynn__: please let us know if the docs for pollsters are not clear or detailed enough. I would like to have good enough developer docs that we can have pollsters contributed from outside of this small group!15:42
eglynn__dhellmann: will do15:42
nijabaeglynn__: and if you start on it, please assign yourself to the bug, so that their is no duplication of effort15:42
eglynn__nijaba: understood!15:43
dhellmannhow about the feature cut-off? do we want to try to have a release before the summit?15:44
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nijabaRegarding 2/ what milestones should we use?15:44
nijabaI think it would be nice to release before the summit, if not at the same time as folsom15:45
dhellmannif we're going to have a qa period we should be cutting things off pretty soon15:45
nijabadhellmann: 2 weeks for QA enough?15:45
nijabait's a small project still15:45
dhellmannmaybe a feature freeze at the end of september and -- yeah, nijaba that's what I'm thinking15:45
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dhellmannannounce the release on the first day of the summit for maximum attention for our openspace sessions?15:46
nijabagmb: can you take the action of proposing a plan on the ml withfixed dates?15:46
nijabadhellmann: uhuh, marketing!15:46
dhellmannI propose a pre-1.0 version number, though, to reflect the incompleteness #antimarketing15:47
nijabapre-1.0 as 0.9 ?15:47
dhellmannwell, we haven't had any other releases. should it just be 0.1?15:47
gmbnijaba, Happy to.15:48
dhellmannmaybe that's something to discuss on the ml, too15:48
dhellmannI don't have strong feelings, except that it should be < 1.015:48
zigopre-1.0 isn't package friendly.15:48
nijaba#action gmb to a plan on the ml with fixed dates15:48
dhellmannzigo: I meant not 1.0, not exactly "pre-1.0" :-)15:48
nijaba#vote use 0.1 as our first release? yes, no15:49
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nijaba#startvote use 0.1 as our first release? yes, no15:49
openstackBegin voting on: use 0.1 as our first release? Valid vote options are yes, no.15:49
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.15:49
nijaba#vote yes15:49
dhellmann#vote yes15:49
gmb#vote yes15:49
spn#vote Yes15:49
jd___#vote yes15:49
* gmb notes that nijaba has switched the cases for yes and no this time, to keep everyone on their toes...15:49
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spn#vote yes15:50
* nijaba tried to make things simpler... but yes, that too! ;)15:50
openstackVoted on "use 0.1 as our first release?" Results are15:50
openstackyes (5): nijaba, dhellmann, jd___, spn, gmb15:50
* dhellmann wonders if we're sure voting is actually case sensitive15:50
jd___it's not case sensitive according to the previous vote (I used lowercase)15:50
nijaba#startvote let's see if voting is case sensitive? YeS, nO15:51
openstackBegin voting on: let's see if voting is case sensitive? Valid vote options are YeS, nO.15:51
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.15:51
dhellmann#vote invalid15:51
openstackdhellmann: invalid is not a valid option. Valid options are YeS, nO.15:51
nijaba#vote NO15:51
jd___#vote No15:51
dhellmann#vote no15:51
spn#vote n015:51
openstackspn: n0 is not a valid option. Valid options are YeS, nO.15:51
jd___spn: :D15:51
gmb#vote YEs15:51
jd___#vote ∅15:51
openstackjd___: ∅ is not a valid option. Valid options are YeS, nO.15:51
spn#vote No15:51
dachary#vote NO15:51
openstackVoted on "let's see if voting is case sensitive?" Results are15:51
openstackYeS (1): gmb15:51
dhellmannso it looks like it's not case sensitive and you get an error if you use a value that isn't an option15:51
openstacknO (4): nijaba, dhellmann, spn, jd___15:51
jd___mystery solved15:52
gmbI call that a win15:52
jd___this meeting is totally worth it15:52
dhellmannwe're about out of time, is there anything else we need to decide before wrapping up? :-)15:52
nijabaok, enough fun! :P15:52
nijaba#topic Open Discusssion15:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discusssion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:52
nijabaany other brillant subjects for today?15:53
zigoI've been searching what I should look into.15:53
asalkeldhi are you guys open to flask to wsgi?15:53
zigoAppart from Glance metering, is there anything I should work on?15:53
spnshud we be using the ceilometerclient to see the output?15:53
jd___well, see you next week for "is #action <nickname> case sensitive" !15:53
zigo(something easy...)15:53
asalkeldso move to move to more glance style api?15:53
nijabazigo: swift should be decently easy, I think15:53
jd___what about Quantum?15:53
zigonijaba: Nobody did that yet?15:54
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dhellmannzigo: there are a bunch of tickets marked "effort-s" in the tracker15:54
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dhellmannasalkeld: not sure what you mean. our api is written in flask right now.15:54
asalkeldI know15:54
asalkeldare you open to me changing that15:54
spndhellmann: and devstack does not mark flask as requires...15:54
dhellmannspn: the ceilometer client is experimental right now. we don't have an official client project15:54
asalkeldto be more consistent with other openstack api15:55
spndhellman: ok..15:55
dhellmannspn: does devstack set up the api?15:55
eglynn__I don't think devstack runs the API service15:55
dhellmannasalkeld: let's discuss changes of that scope on the mailing list, we won't have time to go into the details here (5 min)15:55
spndhellman: not yet.. but I see that flask is missing15:55
asalkeldok dhellmann15:56
nijabazigo: nope, see bug #100445015:56
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1004450 in ceilometer "Pollster for Swift" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
zigoWill try.15:56
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dhellmann#action dhellmann make sure flask is listed as a dependency of ceilometer15:56
zigoCould anyone do a bit of mentoring with ne?15:56
zigojd___: Do you have time for that?15:56
jd___zigo: eventually15:57
spndhellman: flask from ubuntu is older version. need to mark it in files/pips/ceilometer  *may-be*15:57
dhellmannspn: thanks!15:57
nijabaok, looks like we have a wrap15:58
nijabathanks everyone! was another fun meeting!15:58
*** openstack changes topic to "cidner-usecases"15:59
* zigo goes to bed then.15:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep  6 15:59:07 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:59
spnthanks.. nijaba and15:59
openstackMinutes (text):
dacharycheers all15:59
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jaypipesQAers... ready to meet?17:01
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jaypipes#startmeeting qa17:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep  6 17:01:54 2012 UTC.  The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:01
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davidkranzjaypipes: I haven't seen anyhing back from Vish about all the problems we are having.17:02
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davidkranzjaypipes: What did you think of Jim's proposal last night?17:03
jaypipesdavidkranz: I'm still playing catchup on emails/list messages17:03
jaypipesdavidkranz: reading it now. :)17:03
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davidkranzjaypipes: OK17:03
jaypipesdavidkranz: gimme a few minutes to read, ok, then we discuss?17:03
davidkranzjaypipes: Sure.17:03
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jaypipesdavidkranz: responded to jeblair on ML17:18
davidkranzjaypipes: I saw.17:18
jaypipesdavidkranz: I think #2 and #3 are good, I'm tentative on #117:18
davidkranzjaypipes: Yeah. I think we need the upside of that right now.17:19
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davidkranzjaypipes: For the downside, we could have an "advisory gate" on all of tempest.17:19
jaypipesdavidkranz: well, that's what jeblair's #3 was, and I support that.17:19
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jaypipesmy only thing is I don't want to make the *tempest* project gate less than the full test suite17:20
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davidkranzjaypipes: The problem is that if some one breaks something in the "adivosry" gate tempest will still be blocked if we enforce that.17:21
jaypipesdavidkranz: yes, I understand that.17:21
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davidkranzjaypipes: The way I have dealt with this in the past was to make it advisory but always have some one on the hook to fix a problem as their first priority.17:22
jaypipesdavidkranz: it sucks, but I actually think it's better to just deal with a broken tempest and work as closely as psosible with the core proejcts when breaks occur17:22
jaypipesdavidkranz: works for me :) but it's not me you need to convince ;)17:22
davidkranzjaypipes: Right. I think we could do what you are suggesting if Vish buys into it.17:22
davidkranzjaypipes: I just hate to see important unrelated work in tempest getting pissed on all the time.17:23
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dansmithso, I'm confused..17:23
dansmithI thought the point of not running full tempest every time was a matter of resources17:23
dansmithrunning it every time and making it only advisory seems to get all the pain with none of the gain17:23
dansmith(or fractional gain)17:23
davidkranzdansmith: It is not just resources (bandwidth) but wait time (latency) as well I think.17:24
dansmithdavidkranz: okay, I thought Jim's comments were mostly around resources17:24
dansmithseems like making the temptest test advisory during check and required during gate would help get a quick sniff before the reviewers have at it,17:25
davidkranzdansmith: There is also the issue of the startup time which would be shared in his suggestion.17:25
dansmithand then require them to fix up things before it can be merged17:25
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dansmithmy opinion, which I think is shared by davidkranz, is that tempest gets shoved to the back of the line constantly if things are asymmetrical, which I think discourages folks from contributing to it17:26
dansmithwhich is the opposite of what should be happening17:27
dansmithI speak from experience of course :)17:27
davidkranzWe need to do what will17:27
davidkranz1. Get all tempest tests working again asap17:28
davidkranz2. Minimize failing tempest gates17:28
jaypipesdansmith: agree with you.17:28
davidkranzjaypipes: I agree that we should turn on the full tempest gate asap but perhaps for the moment we should turn it off until things are settled.17:29
jaypipesdavidkranz: what does that buy us exactly, though?17:29
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davidkranzjaypipes: If some one breaks a tempest test then we will be informed immediately but a core reviewer does not have to rush to figure out what it is and comment it out to unblock the kqueue.17:30
jaypipesbut unblocking the queue just means broken tempest goes into trunk..17:31
davidkranzIf we could run full tempest on everyhthing that would be great but Jim doesn't want to do that.17:31
davidkranzIf we run the full gate only on tempest that what I described will happen. It's been happening.17:32
davidkranzjaypipes: Sorry for mistakes from typing too fast...17:33
jaypipeshehe, no worries :)17:33
dansmithjust brainstorming here,17:34
jaypipesdavidkranz: and what I am saying is that what has been happening is the better of the two worlds, IMHO, because it's not allowing broken code into tempest...17:34
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dansmithbut could we introduce another batching mechanism for merging things into a core project, where five or ten patches get grouped for a single tempest run before landing?17:34
dansmithjaypipes: could we make the full tempest gate smarter to just run tests above the smoke level that appear to have been touched by the patch in question?17:35
sdagueor is there a way to break up tempest into chunks that could be run in parallel, to address latency17:35
dansmithjaypipes: that would be more symmetrical, not punishing the unrelated tests because of nova breakages, but without letting people check in things that are clearly broken17:35
jaypipessdague: unfortunately, not with the current architecture of tempest (using nosetests and its multiprocessing plugin, which is buggy to say the least()17:36
jaypipesI'm just not sure :(17:37
davidkranzThis is a tough issue. I think if we could get the nova team to look at these things at high priority it would help.17:38
jaypipesdavidkranz: agreed.17:38
davidkranzI am not in favor of spending a lot of time on countermeasures just to get around that.17:39
jaypipesme neither.17:39
davidkranzThis hasn't been a big problem until now and probably won't be going forward.17:39
davidkranzjaypipes: So who will "bell the cat"?17:39
dansmithI'll be at the meeting anyway17:40
dansmithto talk about XML stuff17:40
dansmithso I can do it if nobody else is going to be there for other reasons17:40
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davidkranzdansmith: Good. I forgot the nova meeting is today.17:40
davidkranzdansmith: Virutal Wednesday :)17:40
sdagueit does seem like it's going to be impossible to handle the nova breaking tests in tempest that aren't run in the system, seems like we really need to figure out a way to get tempest run in the CI, otherwise we're just getting by by blind luck :)17:41
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davidkranzsdague: Right. We spend a bunch of time parallelizing tempest but fell down due to the multiprocessing nose issue AFAIK.17:42
jaypipessdague: well, jeblair's sugegstion (#3) was to have the whole temptest suite run for all commits in the core projects, but only *gate* on the smoke + more tests17:42
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dansmithyeah, see, that's just expending the resources for little gain, IMHO, and doesn't really make sense17:43
dansmithif the concern is checking something in at lightning speed,17:43
sdaguethat does mean a nova bug, which we can confirm is a bug, has a test case can be checked in though? right?17:43
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dansmiththen we could have another special jenkins command to "reverify, sans tempest"17:43
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dansmithperhaps the latency concern is because the gate tests are all run sequentially? certainly the tempest one could be run in parallel to the other ones and not increase the total time-to-commit by too much17:45
sdaguedavidkranz, jaypipes: is the existing multi processing work in the tree, or a seperate branch? maybe we can try to help there.17:45
davidkranzI think the point of Jim's suggestion is that if a failure was directly tied to a particular change, the nova folks would react more quickly.17:45
jaypipessdague: one sec, looking for link...17:46
davidkranzWhere we are now, some one has to spend a lot of time figuring out which change broke things and no one has time for that.17:46
sdaguejaypipes: or break up the tempest sets manually and run them manually in parallel17:46
davidkranzThat is the situation we absolutely need to avoid.17:46
davidkranzSo I am in favor of Jim's idea until we can find something better.17:47
dansmithdavidkranz: but that doesn't help in the immediate short term, right? because things are flaky enough in tempest at the moment,17:47
dansmiththat people will learn to just ignore the advisory run because it "nearly always fails"17:47
sdaguesounds like it's also worth a summit session to try to throw around ideas on how to make the situation better, hopefully get folks from nova in the room for the discussion as well17:47
dansmithI'd think the social laziness will route around that in no time :D17:48
davidkranzdansmith: As of my change a little while ago things are working again.17:48
dansmithdavidkranz: for how long? :)17:48
dansmithI'm just saying...17:48
davidkranzThe first priority is for the nova folks to fix the stuff I commented out.17:48
jaypipessdague: just run current tempest with --processes=4 and you'll see the issue.17:48
sdaguejaypipes: cool, will do17:49
davidkranzAs I said, I would be happy to turn on the full gate but they don't want to do it.17:49
jaypipessdague: has to do with the multiprocessing plugin not understanding module-level and package-level fixtures17:49
davidkranzdansmith: I think we need to take immediate action to tie breakages to particular checkins whether they gate or not. And Jim agreed to that.17:50
davidkranzSo I suggest17:50
dansmithdavidkranz: understand, and I certainly won't argue that that helps.. however, I think it's likely that doing so will only help tempest folks sweep up after nova folks more efficiently :D17:50
davidkranz1. Ride on nova to fix the current problems17:51
davidkranz2. Tie future breakage to checkins17:51
sdaguedavidkranz: is there a link to the issues in nova that need to be fixed here? a tag or something for these issues?17:51
davidkranz3. Get full tempest to be reliable and fast enough to use as full gate.17:51
sdaguesorry, I too am coming back from a bunch of vacation, so still catching up :)17:51
davidkranzsdague: I filed a nova bug today for the primary issue17:51
sdaguedavidkranz: cool, url?17:52
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1046870 in nova "Tempest showing nova compute failures" [Undecided,New]17:52
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sdaguedavidkranz: thanks17:53
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davidkranzAnything else? The time is up.18:01
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clarkbdavidkranz: jaypipes will need to do that. If he doesn't get to it soonish I can end the meeting18:06
*** openstack changes topic to "cidner-usecases"18:07
davidkranzclarkb: I see that. I just pinged him.18:07
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep  6 18:07:14 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:07
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vishy#starmeeting nova21:01
vishy#startmeeting nova21:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep  6 21:01:31 2012 UTC.  The chair is vishy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:01
* dansmith wonders what the Star Meeting is21:01
vishy#topic bug triage21:02
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vishyI have not been on top of this.21:03
ttx66 untriaged today21:03
* vishy has been finding new bugs21:03
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* markmc didn't get to do his 20 this week yet21:03
markmcthat's depressing21:03
* ttx hasn't found time eiher. Crazy elections21:03
markmcwe had it down below 40 last week AFAIR21:04
ttxshould do a few tomorrow21:04
vishyits like digging a hole in the ocean21:04
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ttxI don't see any other way of checking we didn't overlook something, though...21:05
ttxat least some casual check21:05
vishyi guess we just keep plugging away21:05
ttxno need to reproduce them21:05
ttxmost of the time you can feel if they look genuine21:06
vishylets try to just do a first pass and get them down to 021:06
vishylooking for critical ones21:06
markmcyeah, being able to "casually triage" is a skill you acquire over time21:06
markmcwhen you get started triaging, you tend to over-triage21:06
ttxbetter casually triaged than completely unseen21:07
dansmithare you instructing us to do things half-assed?21:07
dansmithI thought I'd never see the day!21:07
* russellb tends to try to reproduce, or at least read code to verify bug is there and spends too much time on each one21:07
ttxthe goal here is to catch the overlooked kitten killer21:07
dansmithI'm really good at half-assing things21:07
* vishy elects dansmith21:07
vishyprofessional half-asser21:07
ttxdansmith: cheers21:07
* dansmith runs off to change his job title on linkedin21:08
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russellb.#note dansmith is now the official professional half-asser21:08
vishyok so everyone try to go through at least five bugs and mark critical ones for folsom21:08
russellbi'll take your 5 and do 10!21:08
dansmithjust so I'm clear,21:08
dansmithI don't think that non-core folks can mark things in terms of importance, can we?21:08
ttxjust set the milestone to folsom-rc1 for those you think should be on release radar21:08
russellbyes you can21:08
dansmithI think I can confirm/incomplete them, but that's it...21:09
ttxdansmith: just join ~nova-bugs21:09
dansmithoh, hmm, okay21:09
ttxopen team21:09
russellbopen team21:09
vishy#topic RC1 buglist21:09
*** openstack changes topic to "RC1 buglist"21:09
ttxrussellb: I wonder how much longer it wil take people to realize we are the same person21:09
russellbttx: not long if you bring it up in a meeting like that21:09
* vishy wonders why ttx/russellb is talking to himself21:10
markmcrussell's french accent gives him away every time21:10
russellbso a few on the rc list unassigned21:11
ttxvishy: 2 unassigned21:11
ttxerr. 3 actually21:11
ttxbug 104221521:11
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1042215 in nova "Add unit testing coverage for nova.volume.cinder.API" [High,Confirmed]
ttxwhich should be "wishlist" imho21:11
vishyjust looking through those21:12
ttx(folsom-rc1-targeted, but wishlist)21:12
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* ttx sets to wishlist21:12
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vishythe other two look pretty simple21:12
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vishyanyone want to volunteer?21:12
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russellbi'll take one21:13
jog0vishy:  I can take  104253921:13
russellbum ... flavorid one i suppose21:13
eglynnvishy I'll grab the other tmrw21:13
* jog0 hand the bug to russellb 21:13
ttxassign yourselves directly21:13
russellbjog0: heh, ok.21:13
vishy#topic outstanding reviews21:14
*** openstack changes topic to "outstanding reviews"21:14
ttxvishy: on the critical list, the most scary is bug 104095621:14
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1040956 in nova ""Unable to get quota information" in horizon when using quantum" [Critical,Confirmed]
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ttxthe others sound under control, i.e. a course of action is defined21:15
markmcttx, unclear if bug 1040956 has a nova aspect at this point21:15
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1040956 in nova ""Unable to get quota information" in horizon when using quantum" [Critical,Confirmed]
ttxmarkmc: right, my point exactly21:15
markmcttx, needs at least a plan spelled out in the bug21:15
ttxor being abandoned/deferred21:16
vishythe proxy solution is the right one21:16
vishybut it is too late to get that in21:16
markmc53 reviews outstanding21:16
ttxvishy: how much critical is this ? Could it be considered a known gap ?21:16
vishythe fix to have it return none seems like it could be done to stop the error at least21:17
russellbmarkmc: seems to hover around 5021:17
markmcrussellb, despite everyone's best efforts :/21:17
russellbwell some amount is normal, things in progress21:17
markmc12436 is for one of the targeted bugs21:17
russellbwe should define what "keeping up" means, and track against that, because it's not 0 open reviews21:17
ttxvishy: maybe just make sure the plan is defined, and the assignee still on track to implement that plan21:18
vishyi think we are doing pretty well with reviews21:18
vishythis one I would like some other opinions on:
ttx(on 1040956)21:18
russellbyikes, looks invasive for this late in the game21:19
markmcyeah, was about to call that out too21:19
russellb(libvirt network one)21:19
markmcbug is targeted21:19
ttxvishy: is the folsom-rc1 buglist complete as far as triaged bugs go ? Only missing potential blockers from the untriaged list ?21:19
jog0I have one I waiting on:
dansmithttx: when triaging, are we to target legit bugs to folsom? not sure I should be making that determination :D21:19
dprinceI've got one coming for Nova volumes (which we just broke 4 hours ago)21:20
vishydansmith: default to target it if it looks important21:20
dansmithvishy: okay21:20
vishydprince: :( k21:20
vishydprince: how did we break it?21:20
ttxdansmith: folsom-rc1 targeting is just a simple way to bring the bug to release radar21:20
dprincemerged in some iscsi driver stuff from Cinder.21:20
dansmithttx: okay, just seems like too much responsibilty for someone like myself :P21:21
ttxdansmith: we can remove the milestone target if it's abusive21:21
markmciscsi stuff is getting worrying21:21
vishyoh that is the one that I wanted to discuss21:21
vishyi will save it for its own topic though21:21
ttxvishy: is the folsom-rc1 buglist complete as far as triaged bugs go ? Only missing potential blockers from the untriaged list ?21:22
vishyttx: afaik21:22
vishyttx: can you use your launchpad foo to get a list of in progress bugs that are not targetted21:22
vishyto see if some haven't been targetted yet?21:23
vishy#topic Tempest gating21:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Tempest gating"21:23
ttxvishy: htat will require a launchpadlib script that I won't be able to produce until some sleep is poured into me21:23
vishyi'm not sure what this topic is21:23
dansmithI added this one on behalf of the qa folks21:23
vishyttx: no worries, I was hoping that search options might make it21:23
vishydansmith: ok go21:23
dansmithso, there's a thread going on on the qa-team list21:24
ttxvishy: also do we really want to target all inprogress bugs ? They will end up on the RC1 is they merge, and not if not21:24
dansmithabout the asymmetric nature of the gating into tempest and other projects like nova21:24
vishyttx: no I was just curious for the list to see if any should be targetted21:24
dansmithnova can check stuff in all day long as long as it passes the smoke tests, but may (and does often) break tempest,21:24
dansmithwhich prevents further stuff from going into tempest until it's resolved21:24
dansmithusually the way that happens is by adding a commit in front of somethign to skip the newly-broken test21:25
dansmithsince tempest is not run against every commit in nova, it makes it real hard to figure out which commit broke something21:25
dansmithas it is usually days later before the breakage is noticed in tempest21:25
dansmiththe suggestions have been:21:25
ttxvishy: you can search for in progress bugs and see which ones don't have the watch icon that denotes milestone targeted21:25
dansmith1. Add a non-gating run of tempest for every nova commit, and ask the nova core folks to try to keep an eye on things when that non-voting test fails21:26
vishydansmith: how about a non-voting tempest test21:26
dansmith2. Make it voting, which will delay nova gate quite a bit21:26
vishymy vote would be start non-voting21:26
dansmithvishy: that's one option, although I think social behavior will route around that fairly quickly because tempest is already a bit flaky,21:26
russellb+1 to non-voting on every commit21:26
dansmithand folks will start to ignore it21:26
dansmithI think that long-term,21:26
russellbi would always look personally ... doesn't take long to scan to see which test it was21:26
ttxvishy: there are 101 of them21:27
russellband see if it was a test that looks related to what the change was21:27
russellbttx: but only 53 reviews, heh.21:27
dansmiththey're looking for some support from nova-core on a voting run, once some performance (i.e. parallel runnage) issues can be addressed in tempest21:27
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russellbI think we should have it non-voting for a while to gain the support for a voting run21:27
dansmithrussellb: if nova-core can/will do that reliably, then I think that will go a long way21:27
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ttxrussellb: some people being overly optimistic.. and abandoned reviews.21:27
vishyrussellb: agreed21:27
markmcany tempest test which isn't gating becomes something qa folks will always need to chase21:28
markmcbut the gate can't take a silly amount of time21:28
russellbhow long does a full tempest run take now?21:28
dansmithjaypipes and I think that long term, it really needs to be symmetric21:28
markmcright, doesn't seem right for tempest to gate on the full set of tests21:28
dansmithdepends on the machine, but I think it runs in a little less than 45 minutes on my VM21:29
dansmithwhich is obviously a huge problem for nova's gate21:29
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dansmiththere's work identified to try to mitigate that21:29
dansmithmarkmc: exactly,21:29
dansmithmarkmc: it means that tempest is always broken and folks are discouraged from contributing because you always have to clean up someone else's mess first21:29
eglynnaren't a subset of the tempest tests annotated as smoke tests?21:29
dansmithbelieve me, I know :)21:29
russellbyeah ... if it ran in the early jenkins check run, it would probably finish before it's approved21:29
dansmitheglynn: yes, that's the gate now, and it's wayyyyy small21:29
markmchow about we (nova) decide what's an acceptable length of time for the gate?21:29
dansmithrussellb: well, if that is run async to the check, but I'm not sure if that's the plan or not21:30
russellbmarkmc: 2 minutes!21:30
markmctempest folks can make as many tests gating as they want, so long as it comes under that21:30
markmceverything else winds up something they have to chase21:30
dansmithmarkmc: that certainly sets a goal to achieve :)21:30
markmcnon-voting thing sounds reasonable way to get some help chasing, but will probably have limited success21:30
dansmithmarkmc: right, I can ignore stuff all day long if it doesn't block me.. it's part of my half-assed job :)21:31
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dansmithif nova-core is diligent about it, then it becomes non-blocking for the flaky cases, while still helping towards the end goal21:31
vishyso sounds like we are agreed21:32
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vishynon-gating test at first21:32
vishythen gating added later21:32
* ttx vanishes21:32
russellbat least up to a sane amount of time21:32
vishynova core will look for breakages21:32
dansmithso you're in support of eventually shooting for a full gate as long as some reasonable attempt to speed it up is made?21:33
dansmithI think that will work for everyone21:33
russellbworks for me21:33
markmcdansmith, what gets in gate now? type='smoke'?21:33
dansmithmarkmc: yep21:33
markmcdansmith, so, it's totally up to you guys what gates and what doesn't21:33
markmcdansmith, we'll just moan if we notice it's taking too long21:34
vishy#topic XML support and sample testing21:34
*** openstack changes topic to "XML support and sample testing"21:34
dansmithmarkmc: heh, well, that's one way to look at it ;)21:34
vishyso lots of progress here21:34
vishywe have all the core apis covered now except that servers needs to be expanded a bit21:35
vishyI think it is optomistic to think we will cover all of the extensions21:35
vishybut I think we can cover the most important ones21:35
vishyand get the rest in early grizzly21:35
markmccool stuff21:36
markmcvishy, small thing, approve the samples move to docs
dansmithvishy: do you want to prioritize those?21:36
dansmithif so, we'll pick from the list in order21:36
vishydansmith: Yeah i was hoping to go through them21:36
vishyi think top priority is expanding servers tests to add the other list and posts21:37
vishyand actions21:37
vishythen i will try to go through the list of extensions and come up with which are most important21:37
dansmithvishy: okay, I did the start/stop action extension already,21:37
dansmithso I can look at the core ones too21:37
vishydansmith: cool21:38
vishydansmith: I would split the servers tests into two groups21:38
vishyor maybe three21:38
vishyI don't think we need to run the all_extensions tests for all of the servers tests21:38
vishyother than that, I hopefully will have time to do a couple more21:39
vishy#topic Removing Compute/Scheduler 1.x RPC APIs21:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Removing Compute/Scheduler 1.x RPC APIs"21:39
vishynot sure who added this one21:39
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maurosr_I can help too21:39
russellbthat was from last week21:39
markmcvishy, leftovers from last week?21:40
markmcit's in now21:40
russellbmarkmc: did all of those changes make it in?21:40
russellbsettled!  :)21:40
vishyadditional bonus topic then21:40
vishy#topic syncing from cinder to nova-volumes21:40
*** openstack changes topic to "syncing from cinder to nova-volumes"21:40
markmcand the other way around21:40
vishyI wanted to run my thoughts on this by you guys21:40
markmci.e. sync volumes stuff from cinder into nova21:41
markmcbut there's a tonne of core stuff that could be synced from nova to cinder21:41
markmce.g. removing old scheduler RPC API versions21:41
vishymarkmc: good point21:41
markmcoh, wait21:41
vishyso my thought was to do a sync a ll at once21:41
markmccinder scheduler rpcapi is still at 1.0 :)21:41
vishymarkmc: :)21:42
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jgriffithvishy: +1 on all at once21:42
russellb1.0 is the old and busted!21:42
vishyso at rc-1 just do a massive patch with all of the differences21:42
vishy(hopefully not that massive)21:42
markmcmassive patch == not reviewed closely == risky21:42
jgriffithvishy: As of the other day it's not that large21:42
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jgriffithvishy: At least in terms of volume specific21:42
vishyor else our grizzly security fixes are going to be troublesome21:42
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markmcyeah, what needs to be synced into nova probably isn't huge21:43
* markmc has no idea what it's like the other way21:43
jgriffithmarkmc: not pretty21:44
jgriffithmarkmc: but I don't see that as being as critical either21:44
jgriffithmarkmc: ie non-volume/common21:45
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markmcjgriffith, only critical for bug fixes21:45
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vishyyeah it will make bug fixing harder21:45
markmcjgriffith, not syncing cleanups/refactoring is just a question of making maintenance burden bigger over time21:45
dprincejgriffith: on a related note. If you buy this for Cinder I'm gonna push one to Nova too:
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jgriffithmarkmc: yes, was just waiting for the second update21:47
dprincejgriffith: after that I need to look into one more Nova Smoke Test failure with the recent Cinder syncing.21:47
* dprince sorry to interrupt guys21:47
russellbI suppose a good summit session (or sessions?) could be determining what we can factor out of nova and cinder to remove as much of the duplication of core code as possible.21:48
russellbso that this isn't a long term problem ...21:49
dprincerussellb: long term Nova volumes goes away right?21:49
vishynova volumes is gone for grizzly21:49
russellbisn't there some other duplication though?21:49
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vishybut we may leave the code in for backporting patches21:49
jgriffithI think russellb is referring to the other common pieces21:50
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markmcdprince, e.g. cinder has a scheduler21:50
markmcvishy, you mean, not delete the code in grizzly?21:51
dprinceSUre. But its schedulers are a bit more simplistic than Nova's right?21:51
markmcdprince, yes, but there's still copied-and-pasted code ... which is what openstack-common is trying to clean up21:52
* dprince buys it21:53
vishymarkmc: I mean not delete the code until the end of grizzly21:53
markmcvishy, I don't think that will help stable branch, really - but we can discuss later21:53
vishymarkmc: although we could just have people propose directly into stable/folsom and just make sure that it is in cinder first21:53
markmcvishy, right21:54
dprincevishy: That is what I'm doing (Cinder first then Nova). Makes sense.21:54
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markmcvishy, none of the reasons for "must be in nova master before stable/folsom" applies where the code in master is to be removed21:55
vishyk nm then21:55
markmcthanks for thinking of stable tho :)21:55
vishyso the sync of code from cinder -> nova-volumes21:55
vishyhow do we do that piece?21:55
markmcok, how about I do a rough analysis and send out a mail21:56
markmcsee what commits we're missing etc.21:57
markmcmight just do the syncing myself, we'll see21:57
jgriffithI've been doing diffs on nova/volume and cinder/volume... that part isn't so bad21:57
jgriffithWas planning one big patch to sync next week (from me)21:57
* markmc would prefer to avoid "one big patch"21:57
markmcharder to do a real review21:57
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jgriffithFor that portion it's not as large, but I'll leave it to you21:58
jgriffithMost of the stuff we've been telling people to submit in both anyway21:58
markmcjgriffith, ok, I'll sync with you tomorrow when I've had a look21:58
vishymarkmc: ok thanks21:58
vishy#topic Open Discussion21:59
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion"21:59
vishyanything else?21:59
mtreinishOne quick thing, I've got three reviews just waiting on approval: and
mtreinishI'd like to get them pushed through to close out the xml metadata bug: bug 104089121:59
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1040891 in nova "XML formatting for volume metadata incorrect" [High,In progress]
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vishyjust sent in
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vishyi had already reviewed but forgot to click the button22:00
jog0I ahve a nova client bug:
vishy that one needs someone else to look at though22:01
mtreinishvishy: cool, thanks22:01
jk0I always review and not realized I'm not logged in, the go to click the review button but instead the diff one and get bombed with windows22:01
jk0good times22:01
vishyjog0: approved, pretty obvious22:01
jog0vishy:  and this nova one, which is less obvious:
jog0vishy: thanks22:02
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jk0anything else?22:06
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russellbvishy: #endmeeting ?22:09
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vishy#endmeeting nova22:09
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meeting Channel ||"22:09
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep  6 22:09:53 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:09
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vishythanks guys22:10
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