Tuesday, 2012-10-02

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primeministerpis the meetbot on15:01
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primeministerphey guys the meetbot isn't starting for me15:03
primeministerpanyway we'll begin15:03
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primeministerpI'm wondering if it's bc i'm using the webclient15:03
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primeministerpok i just popped into the infra channel15:05
jeblairdid you say "#startmeeting" ?15:05
primeministerpwrong character15:06
primeministerp#startmeeting hyper-v15:06
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct  2 15:06:11 2012 UTC.  The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:06
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:06
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v'15:06
primeministerpmy bad, was using "/"15:06
primeministerpforgot it was a "#"15:06
primeministerpLet's start with the Installer for the Nova-compute for Hyper-v15:07
primeministerp#topic Installer Testing15:07
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*** openstack changes topic to "Installer Testing"15:07
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primeministerpalexpilotti: would you like to take the floor15:07
primeministerpalexpilotti has created an msi, which we need to begin testing15:08
primeministerpalexpilotti it allows for the enabling of the features and configuration tweaks necessary to deploy silently15:08
alexpilottithe idea is that once the OS is deployes, the installer takes care of all the rest15:09
alexpilottiwe tested it a lot on Hyper v 201215:09
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primeministerpalexpilotti: so it requires an existing folsom controller to be present as well as a domain controller if you are going to enable live migration correct?15:10
EmilienMI can test it this week15:10
pnavarroI'll test it two15:11
primeministerpWe need to look for typos as well in the language15:11
primeministerpused in the dialogs etc15:11
pnavarroWe can translate it to Spanish and French15:11
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primeministerpso alex and I were just discussing that15:12
EmilienMi take french Pedro if u want15:12
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pnavarrosure EmilienM15:12
primeministerpalexpilotti: so I think you got an answer15:12
alexpilottitx guys!15:13
alexpilottiI'll take Italian and German, I guess :-)15:13
primeministerpalexpilotti: what's the best way to get the new installer15:14
alexpilottipnavarro: the installer enables the msiscsi service15:14
pnavarroalexpilotti: great! I'll test it15:14
alexpilottiprimeministerp: for the moment I left a link in the email, that you guys just got15:14
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primeministerpalexpilotti: I wasn't sure if you sent it out to everyone15:15
primeministerp#link http://www.cloudbase.it/beta/HyperVNovaCompute_1_0_0_beta.msi15:15
primeministerpok moving on15:15
primeministerp#topic conference roster15:16
*** openstack changes topic to "conference roster"15:16
primeministerpso EmilienM is now attending the conf15:16
primeministerpI think that means we have confirmed everyone but Jordan being there15:16
EmilienMalexpilotti: great job for installer :)15:17
primeministerpLet's make sure we coordinate to meetup the first day, and try to get some coverage in sessions15:17
primeministerpalso we'll should plan on having some planning sessions as between us as well15:18
primeministerplooks like jordan won't be there15:19
alexpilottitx EmilienM ! :-)15:19
pnavarroJust after the summit I'll talking about Hyper-V in the next Paris meetup: #link http://www.meetup.com/OpenStack-France/events/84177022/15:19
primeministerppnavarro: great15:19
primeministerppnavarro: make sure you send me a copy of the slides and I'll make sure they get distributed internally here15:20
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primeministerp#topic Quantum15:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Quantum"15:20
primeministerplet's start to discuss approaches for implementing quantum on windows15:21
primeministerpalexpilotti: and I have been discussion the different options15:21
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primeministerpthe first being, use the native windows extensible switch15:21
primeministerpthat is part of hyper-v15:21
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primeministerpor the second being porting  openvswitch to run in it's place15:22
pnavarroprimeministerp: that'd be peace of cake..15:22
primeministerpit being the hyper-v switch15:22
primeministerppnavarro: which is the cake?15:22
primeministerppnavarro: ovs?15:22
pnavarrothe first option, I mean...15:22
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EmilienMprimeministerp: I think you should code a new plugin like : hyperv-vswitch-quantum-plugin15:23
primeministerpwe'll we were probably thinking you would need both15:23
primeministerpEmilienM: we would need to15:23
EmilienMto manage basic VIF connection15:23
primeministerpEmilienM: continue15:23
EmilienMI have one question about Hyper-V vSwitch15:24
EmilienMis it OpenFlow ready ?15:24
primeministerpEmilienM: sure15:24
primeministerpEmilienM: I'm not sure15:24
primeministerpEmilienM: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/092711-nec-windows8-hyperv-251327.html15:24
primeministerpEmilienM: looks like there may be 3rd party adding it15:25
EmilienMgreta !15:25
EmilienMgreat !*15:25
EmilienMthat could be useful :)15:25
EmilienMfor SDN15:25
EmilienMand interconnection with other computes nodes15:25
primeministerpEmilienM: well that's one of the reasons we were discussing the use of the ovs15:26
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primeministerpEmilienM: in theory we can use it instead of the hyper-v vswitch15:26
pnavarrosorry guys, I have to leave earlier, I sprained my knee last wednesday, and I'm really slow...15:26
primeministerpand in theory have the same operation pane15:26
EmilienMin theory15:26
primeministerpalexpilotti: what do you think?15:27
alexpilottithe quantum hyper-v driver is the basic implementation we were talking about15:28
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alexpilottiovs is imo the cool way to go15:28
primeministerpalexpilotti: i agree15:29
EmilienMactually, all plugins use OVS15:29
EmilienMnot Cisco, sorry15:29
primeministerpIn theory also there could be need for both15:30
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primeministerpEmilienM: anything else to add from your experiences15:31
EmilienMabout the design of the plugin :15:31
primeministerpEmilienM: yes15:31
EmilienMwe'll talk about features15:31
EmilienMbut tunneling & VLAN legacy could be great15:32
primeministerpalexpilotti: what about control of the hyper-v firewall15:32
EmilienMit's really depending of the Hyper-V vSwitch features15:32
EmilienMprimeministerp: +115:32
primeministerpSo i have been playing with LACP on 2012 server15:33
alexpilottiprimeministerp: we can control it easily15:33
primeministerpbasically windows now supports bonding15:33
primeministerp"We" use the term "teaming"15:33
primeministerpwith that you can have both managed and unmanaged switch teaming15:33
primeministerpmeaning the switch can be configured for it, or not15:34
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primeministerpin terms of the LACP part15:34
primeministerpi'm currently using it w/ 2 nics, and a lucent ERS15:34
primeministerphowever, I'm having issues once I tell the hyper-v virtual switch to use the new virtual teaming interface created for a specific vlan15:35
EmilienMI think LACP is outside Quantum subject15:35
primeministerpEmilienM: well usually it's below the OVS layer15:35
EmilienMsince Quantum does not care about the vSwitch in itself15:35
primeministerpEmilienM: you would configure ovs to use it15:36
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EmilienMit will create L2 bridges & virtual routers15:36
primeministerpEmilienM: it's related, and also a configuration we would want to use in a lot of cases15:37
primeministerpFigured i'd share a bit15:37
primeministerp#topic RDP access15:37
*** openstack changes topic to "RDP access"15:37
primeministerpOne other thing we are looking to start work on for the G release is RDP access to the VM console15:38
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primeministerpalexpilotti: did some early investigation into using freerdp as the mechanism15:38
primeministerpuser experiences are going to be key15:39
primeministerpdon't think our cern friends are on, however I know it was a key feature they were looking for15:39
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primeministerpand in fact a necessary one15:40
primeministerpfrom my personal perspective15:40
primeministerpalexpilotti: anything you want to add on RDP console access?15:40
alexpilottiwe plan to implement 2 solutions:15:40
alexpilotti1) a novnc-* equivalent RDP alternative15:41
alexpilotti2) an RDP to VNC bridge15:41
primeministerpalexpilotti: explain the need for the RDP to VNC bridge15:42
alexpilottiVNC to RDP sorry :-)15:42
primeministerpalexpilotti: hehe that makes sense now15:42
alexpilottithis way the dashboard can offer a single VNC solution covering multiple hypervisors15:43
alexpilottias everybody else uses VNC ;-)15:43
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primeministerpare we sure, wasn't some work done to use spice?15:43
primeministerplooks like someone's talking on the subject15:44
primeministerpEmilienM: alexpilotti anything else today?15:45
primeministerpok then15:46
alexpilottiprimeministerp: we should talk w teh spice guys to see what's the project status15:46
primeministerpalexpilotti: that's why I'm mentioning it15:46
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primeministerpalexpilotti: in terms of spice, I believe a friend of mine still does QA for the protocol testing15:46
primeministerpfor RH15:46
primeministerpalexpilotti: let's discuss more offline15:47
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alexpilottiprimeministerp: cool15:47
primeministerpon that note, thanks everyone15:47
EmilienMthank's :)15:47
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"15:47
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct  2 15:47:56 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:47
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2012/hyper_v.2012-10-02-15.06.html15:47
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2012/hyper_v.2012-10-02-15.06.txt15:47
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2012/hyper_v.2012-10-02-15.06.log.html15:48
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heckjkeystone meeting in a minute… o/17:59
heckj#startmeeting keystone18:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct  2 18:01:11 2012 UTC.  The chair is heckj. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:01
heckj#topic agenda at http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "agenda at http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting"18:01
heckjola guys18:01
heckjany gyee? others?18:01
ayoungain't nobody here but us chickens18:02
heckj#topic summit session18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "summit session"18:03
heckjWe've got three hours open in our sessions so far - not feeling like I need to fill them, but FYI18:03
heckjCan you two see: http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/topic/618:03
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dolphmheckj: forbidden18:04
heckjAh well, fraid fo that18:04
heckjIt's the approved list for the summit18:04
heckjI'll make a screenshot and send to you two so you can see that status18:04
dolphmheckj: i can see this http://summit.openstack.org/18:05
dolphmheckj: which shows unreviewed/preapproved/incomplete .. i just can't filter by topic?18:05
dolphmheckj: i see 6 keystone sessions on that18:05
heckjSpect so - I'm not entirely sure how permissions and such are set up with that app18:05
heckj#topic bugs vs blueprints for feature work18:06
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs vs blueprints for feature work"18:06
heckja couple of release meetings ago, ttx started getting on us for having a large number of "high" bugs in our project. Looking through, some of those bugs are really "work items", and some aren't going to be resolved until other larger work items are complete (i.e. the things that need a V3 API implementation).18:06
heckjFor the pure work items, I thought about trying to get us using blueprints more extensively.18:07
heckjFigured I'd ask you two what you though.18:07
heckjJose, for example, opened a series of bugs for feature-improvements on LDAP - maybe that should've been in a blueprint instead of bugs.18:07
dolphmi think launchpad's blueprints are a little broken as a system, but they're more appropriate18:07
heckjyeah, I've found lots of restrictions in using blueprints - they seem to be most suitable to large, swatching feature request pieces rather than lots of work items/tasks to accomplish something.18:09
heckjayoung: any opinions or thoughts?18:09
heckjI know you have to report up the food chain there regularly with what you've done in Keystone - would using BP more extensively do you any good, or would it be just another annoying system to deal with?18:09
dolphmdepends on if the PTL is volunteering to completely manage blueprints or if we have to do it ourselves18:10
ayoungheckj, in general I agree, but the LDAP bugs do tend to stand alone18:10
ayoungeach of them is valid in the absense of the others18:10
heckjmakes sense18:11
heckjthe only other set of bugs that are really blueprint work is my fault - the implement V3 API stuff18:11
ayoungcalling them "feature enhancements" is splitting hairs.  Probably more honest to say my original work was proof-of-concept and this is productization18:11
heckjAny qualms if I nuke this bugs and leave it to the blueprint to link up reviews?18:12
heckj#topic feature branch18:12
*** openstack changes topic to "feature branch"18:12
heckjSo - feature branch18:12
heckj#topic - I'm lying, open discussion18:12
*** openstack changes topic to "- I'm lying, open discussion"18:12
heckjfeature branch - how are we liking it?18:13
gyeesorry I am late18:13
heckjI'm finding it a little hard to use - to get all the pieces together to see the V3 API all together in a checkout18:13
ayoungheckj, I can parse that two ways.  How do we like using a feature branch, or how do we like the way the V3 apis are coming along18:13
heckjayoung: I meant the "how do we like using a feature branch" - process wise, I'm finding it a little tricky to work with18:14
heckjI've also been very slow to get reasonable reviews up for that work as well18:14
dolphmi broke up some of the commits so they would merge with as few dependencies as possible -- not to make it easy to checkout in one go :-/18:14
ayoungBut for the first part, I think it is generally OK, except for the way "depends on review X which is outdated/"18:14
ayoungthe outdated thing seems wonky.18:15
dolphmayoung: how so? outdated doesn't imply a trivial rebase won't resolve it18:16
ayoungdolphm, yeah, it just kindof says "don't bother reviewing"  which is wrong18:16
ayoungtrying to keep track of my tasks.18:16
dolphmayoung: should still certainly be reviewable in isolation18:16
ayoungheckj, this one is, I think, needing your input.  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/12106/618:17
ayoungThe rest all depend on that18:17
gyeeI agree with ayoung, this outdate/restore thingy is abit confusing18:17
dolphmthe two week timeout on reviews without activity has been biting me a lot lately18:17
ayoungdolphm, should endpoint_id = sql.Column(sql.String(64), nullable=False)  also be a foreign key? in Policy?  If it can't be false...18:18
heckjyeah, noticed that -18:18
heckjsome of that, I'm sure, is my slowness though18:18
dolphmayoung: can't do foreign keys across backend implementations (safely)18:18
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* ayoung annoyed by the use of technologies that gut the tools of their most useful features18:19
ayoungdolphm, so SQL alchemy is broken?18:19
gyeeI am not even sure if foreign key work across all sql backends18:19
dolphmayoung: that's a limitation of our architecture -- the desire to plug random combinations of drivers together18:19
ayoungI understand if, say, sqlite doesn't support it, but then SQL alchemy should abstract that away18:20
gyeeayoung, then we'll have inconsistent enforcement18:20
dolphmayoung: i'm toying with the idea of writing a single, high performance, monolithic sqlalchemy driver that covers all backends18:20
dolphmayoung: and then we can use foreign keys, and cascade deletes and whatnot18:20
gyeedolphm, +118:21
ayounggyee, understood, but that doesn't mean that we should bypass intelligent constriants for the real DBMSs because we have ones that we are using only for testing18:21
dolphmayoung: if that existed, i think it might be possible to rewrite some of the existing drivers to extend it, and say, eliminate foreign keys and perform cascading deletes "manually" -- to then make a bunch of pluggable drivers out of one big driver18:22
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dolphmayoung: and then you can mix ldap into ti :P18:22
ayoungdolphm, no18:22
ayoungwe need you to do real work, not tilt at windmills18:22
ayoungI assure you, they are not giants18:22
heckjooohh!! windmills!!!18:23
dolphmayoung: lol i think it needs to happen eventually, but if we don't do it, someone else will -- probably to whoever gets bitten first by performance18:23
* heckj gets his horse18:23
ayoungbetter instead for SQLite to ignore with a warning things it hasn't yet implemented, and then to file bugs in its driver18:23
dolphmayoung: i.e. that profile of keystone you sent -- i'd say performance is a known issue with sql, and i don't know how else to address it but write a smarter sql driver for a narrow use case18:24
ayoungdolphm, ah,  that.  I think the problem is eventlet18:24
dolphmayoung: how so?18:24
dolphmayoung: our sql query performance is garbage18:24
ayoung all SQL requests end up getting serialized, which means others are getting blocked18:25
heckjwhat would probably be most useful is to nail down a benchmark test that we could run to measure and compare - that'll give us hard numbers to work against18:25
ayoungI suspect the threading monkey_patch18:25
ayoungI think we should benchmark running in apache HTTPD18:25
ayoungI think we will be much happier, less work, and on a more secure platform18:25
dolphmayoung: it would help if we didn't have to execute N+1 sql queries to get a list of N items18:25
heckjayoung: I'd like to benchmark in multiple deployment configurations, and even more across the series of changes as we go through development.18:25
ayoungWe will also get IPv6 support, so my Uncle will be happy18:25
dolphmheckj: +1 for benchmark18:26
dolphmheckj: i have a keystoneclient script for v3 that might help there18:26
dolphmheckj: creates and tears down a bunch of entities18:27
ayoungBTW, devstack with Signed tokens is broken.  I've nailed down one issue, but have not yet solved the overall thing.18:27
dolphmayoung: symptoms?18:27
ayoungThe admin token is 80 characters long.  I had been checking for UUID token length, which is 32 chars long18:27
heckjayoung: well damn18:27
ayoungbut once I change the length limit to 80, it still fails,18:28
dolphmayoung: lol i told you token length wasn't a good metric18:28
ayoungI haven't figured out why18:28
ayoungdolphm, and I remember agreeing with you18:28
dolphmayoung: i think you need to try and decipher every token, and if it fails, assume it's not pki18:28
ayoungdolphm, I can do something like start the PKI tokens with PKI-18:28
heckjayoung: a hint would make that much more reasonable - like the idea!18:29
ayoungas a UUID token is, I think, limited to 0-9A-F18:29
ayoungI'll open a ticket for that18:29
gyeeayoung, +1 on prefixing18:29
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dolphmayoung: correct, since we use .hex... however, hardcoded admin_token values could be anything18:30
dolphmayoung: hardcoded = keystone.conf'd18:30
dolphmayoung: hardconfigured?18:30
ayoungdolphm, that is oK,  If they start them with PKI they are going to be treated as PKI tokens.18:32
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ayoungChance of that happening unintentionally is vanishingly small enough that I will trust it to a release note18:32
gyeeor put in a check in the code18:32
dolphmgyee: check for what?18:33
ayounganyway,  once I change the length to >80,  it fails, seemingly in the UUID token path.18:33
gyeecheck to make sure admin token is properly prefix18:33
dolphmif admin_token[:4] == 'PKI-'  throw a warning?18:33
gyeeyeah, something like that18:33
ayounggyee, file format?  fall back to online checking if it isnt cms?18:33
gyeeright, pki tokens are base64 encoded right?18:34
gyeeif we can't do base64 decode, then we can try the uuid route18:34
ayoung https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/106038918:35
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1060389 in keystone "Non PKI Tokens longer than 32 characters can never be valid" [Undecided,New]18:35
heckjunrelated, I spent this past weekend grokking the keystoneclient code - I want to normalize it so that it can be used to auth in all the other clients with a clear internal API18:35
ayoungthat needs to be fixed before we can throw the switch on tokens to go PKI18:35
dolphmheckj: +10000000018:35
gyeeheckj, I've been using keystoneclient to test API compatibility with HP18:36
gyeeworks great :)18:36
heckjIt's annoying me that novaclient has it's own auth, and the glanceclient is using it internally, but without a clear internal API18:36
heckjgyee: excellent!18:37
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dolphmgyee: awesome18:37
dolphmgyee: rax recently started doing the same thing18:37
heckjOh - really awesome utility application y'all might be interested in: cloudenvy (github.com/bcwaldon/cloudenvy)18:37
heckjgives you vagrant-like commands to spin up instances and provision them quickly in openstack clouds18:38
heckjI've been using it to spin up a development environment for myself at Nebula on our clouds18:38
gyeethanks, I'll check it out18:38
heckjI'm going to make a fork of devstack that uses it to spin up devstack in a large instance for testing18:39
dolphmheckj: ncie18:39
ayoungso the real problem with the devstack install actually seems to be that the PKI token is somehow getting truncated18:44
heckjI don't have anything else - will close up the meeting in 5 minu18:44
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ayoungthe token passed to glance is glance --os-auth-token MIIFfQYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIFbjCCBWoCAQExCTAHBgUrDgMCGjCCBFYGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCCBEcEggR18:44
ayoungand that MIIF is actually a giveaway that this is a PKI token.  I think they all start with that, something about CMS.18:45
heckjassumptions built into devstack then about how to get a token and how long it will be...18:45
ayoungheckj, most likely.18:45
gyeeayoung, that get pass in from command line?18:45
ayoungAnyway, I set the token backend to SQL ( which I once again think we want to do by default) and I can see the token in there with the same prefix as above, matching out to where it is truncated18:46
ayounggyee, yes18:46
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ayoung++ glance --os-auth-token MIIFfQYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIFbjCCBWoCAQExCTAHBgUrDgMCGjCCBFYGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCCBEcEggR --os-image-url image-create --name cirros-0.3.0-x86_64-uec-ramdisk --public --container-format ari --disk-format ari18:46
dolphmayoung: +1 for default to sql driver for tokens18:48
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ayoungdolphm, what do you think about the token length?  Should we provide an option to read tokens from a file?18:50
dolphmayoung: referring to keystone.conf?18:51
ayoungdolphm, that too, but no, I meant for the various CLIs18:51
dolphmayoung: ooh ... specify a PKI token in a file for clients to use?18:51
ayoungactually, I like the keyring option18:51
ayoungbut, yeah, a pki token file18:51
ayoungtry to get some token reuse18:52
dolphmayoung: token file seems like a logical first step before adding real keyring support18:52
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ayoungdolphm, really?  Why not just skip to the more secure solution?18:53
dolphmayoung: well -- how would you manage clearing the current token? or using an alternative token18:53
ayoungdolphm, I don;t know.  That implies I know all about keyring.  I assume keyring has ways to handle it.18:54
dolphmayoung: i.e. i'm doing some tasks with these roles with this token, and some other tasks with these roles on another tenant with this other token18:54
ayoungah, I see why you like the file id18:54
dolphmayoung: or even as different users18:54
dolphmayoung: just want to make sure we maintain the current flexibility in specifying how to auth (or bypass it) for every command18:56
ayoungdolphm, file the enhancement request please18:57
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dolphmayoung: filing request enhancement, please hold18:57
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dolphmayoung: heckj: --token is becoming --os-token, correct?18:58
heckjupdated in keystoneclient as of latest (but not yet released as a .x update to PyPI)18:58
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heckjand --endpoint moved to --os-endpoint18:59
dolphmheckj: cool, thought so18:59
heckjboth moving to match what's specified in UnifiedCLI18:59
dolphmheckj: pretty sure i reviewed that lol18:59
heckjErp, we're outa time - closing this up18:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"18:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct  2 18:59:43 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2012/keystone.2012-10-02-18.01.html18:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2012/keystone.2012-10-02-18.01.txt18:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2012/keystone.2012-10-02-18.01.log.html18:59
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jeblairci chat?19:00
* clarkb is here19:01
jeblairI haven't heard from mordred in quite a while, so...19:01
jeblair#startmeeting ci19:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct  2 19:01:46 2012 UTC.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ci'19:01
jeblair(looking up last meeting)19:02
jeblair#topic items from last meeting19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "items from last meeting"19:02
jeblairI believe this one is unchanged:19:02
jeblair#action jbryce provide a test foundation server19:02
fungii have an update there19:03
jeblairawesome: go for it19:03
fungii pinged him and reed via e-mail later in the week19:03
fungino word on progress yet, but reed expressed interest in taking over doing that if he gets time19:03
reedI have talked to Todd today, he hopefully will hop online19:03
jeblair#action reed provide a test foundation server19:04
fungireed: awesome!19:04
jeblair#action todd provide a test foundation server19:04
jeblair#action anyone provide a test foundation server19:04
jeblaircool, if todd shows up, we can chat about that more, or any time in #-infra19:05
fungiotherwise, we're still in a holding pattern. it works on review-dev and can be demo'd there19:05
jeblair(and seems to work)19:05
jeblairclarkb: i believe you proposed the translation session for the summit?19:06
clarkbjeblair: I did. It has been preapproved too19:06
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jeblairpabelanger added the puppet lint job, which rocks19:07
fungithanks pabelanger!19:07
clarkbit tells us how bad we are19:08
jeblairit is indicating we have quite a ways to go before we're lint-free19:08
fungithe first time i saw it, i thought for a moment my browser was going to lock up trying to show the entire log ;)19:08
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jeblair#link http://idle.slashdot.org/story/12/10/01/1215213/us-agricultural-economists-say-bacon-shortage-is-hogwash19:09
* fungi breathes a sigh of relief19:09
jeblair^ seems like we're off the hook there19:09
uvirtbotjeblair: Error: "seems" is not a valid command.19:09
jeblairand mordred did document use cases for bug 99560419:09
fungi^ seems uvirtbot likes this topic19:09
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 995604 in openstack-ci "use symbolic-ref from gerrit to provide moving codename targets" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99560419:09
uvirtbotfungi: Error: "seems" is not a valid command.19:09
jeblair#topic symbolic-ref19:10
*** openstack changes topic to "symbolic-ref"19:10
jeblairwe chatted a bit earlier about symbolic refs.  i don't think it's a slam dunk for what we want to do19:10
fungijeblair: yes, i updated the bug report with details19:10
jeblairbut we have a lot of good information thanks to fungi's work19:11
fungias noted there, i did a proof-of-concept following his suggestion, but tags do indeed seem to fill the void in a better way19:11
jeblaircool, my feeling is it's sort of a back-burner idea until we chat at the summit and figure out what will happen with branches next time around19:11
fungiduring or after the ods session(s) on branch organization and release process, we need to talk about how we automate the tag updates19:12
fungipresumably that happens zuul-side?19:12
fungiand not directly on gerrit's copies?19:12
jeblairfungi: maybe it's a gerrit hook script on ref-updated?19:13
fungisince we wouldn't want to tag a commit until it's merged successfully19:13
fungijeblair: that could work19:13
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fungibut i'll definitely try to catch any ods discussions around that as well19:13
jeblairfungi: anyway, i also don't want to presume we will need this; it's possible (granted, unlikely) we could come up with a branch model that satisfies the use case.19:14
fungithat would be ideal, i agree19:14
jeblair#topic zuul19:15
*** openstack changes topic to "zuul"19:15
jeblairi gave a talk at the jenkins user conference about zuul19:15
jeblairand plugged job-builder, gerrit, the openstack-ci-puppet repo, and our wiki/documentation too19:15
jeblairsome folks have popped into #-infra as a result of that, which is great19:16
jeblairi'd love to get patches from outside of openstack for anything we do.  :)19:17
jeblairoh, and git-review too.19:17
clarkbI added a minor feature to zuul to have it report the zuul status link when it starts gate jobs19:17
clarkbthat started a short conversation on per change status pages19:17
fungisaw that--clickyconvenient19:17
jeblairzuul has some missing documentation and some things that make it hard to set up initially, so i have one patch in review to help with that, and another one coming19:17
clarkbI think zuul may need to be restarted to pick up the change though19:18
jeblairclarkb: yep19:18
jeblairso per-change status pages are totally doable, it sort of depends on how much we want zuul to be a web app19:18
clarkbmaybe giving zuul a json api and allowing the webab to be decoupled is a better way to handle this problem?19:19
jeblairclarkb: that's not a bad idea.19:19
jeblairclarkb: yeah, i think i like that.  i'll cipher on that.  btw, anyone here love writing web apps?19:21
* fungi thought the web was a passing fad for longer than he cares to admit, but will volunteer for anything19:22
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jeblairfungi: you still do, don't you? :)19:22
fungii'm just hoping beyond hope at this stage19:23
jeblairanyone else have a #topic?19:23
fungigerrit whitespace change detection19:23
clarkboneiric -> precise upgrades19:23
jeblair#topic gerrit whitespace change detection19:24
fungiasps. very dangerous. clarkb goes first19:24
*** openstack changes topic to "gerrit whitespace change detection"19:24
fungior me19:24
jeblairwhoops.  :)19:24
fungimarkmc was asking about a feature to have the trivial-rebase hook module no longer reapply reviews on whitespace changes between patchsets19:24
fungi#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/105750619:25
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1057506 in openstack-ci "Gerrit trivial rebase detection ignores whitespace" [Medium,Fix released]19:25
fungimerged yesterday: #link https://review.openstack.org/1377519:25
fungikeep an eye out in case it does unexpected things, but i kicked the tires pretty thoroughly already19:25
fungiyour turn, clarkb19:26
jeblair#topic asps; oneiric -> precise upgrades19:26
*** openstack changes topic to "asps; oneiric -> precise upgrades"19:26
clarkbso a few of the infrastructure hosts run oneiric and we have wanted to upgrade them to precise. notably the jenkins and gerrit hosts19:26
jeblairmordred: ping19:27
clarkbI have started cleaning up the Jenkins puppet modules to make it easy to stand up jenkins on a brand new host.19:27
clarkbonce https://review.openstack.org/#/c/13926/ merges I think we will be ready to start building a new jenkins-dev host19:27
clarkbthe motivation for building new hosts is to move to rackspace's new openstack cloud where we can have ipv619:28
jeblairthe jenkins stuff looks great, btw.19:28
jeblairi have a question about the gerrit modules though....19:29
jeblairis our gerrit puppet config so complete that when we spin up a new gerrit host, will it immediately start replicating empty repositories to github?19:29
clarkbo_O I hope not but I think that is a valid concern19:29
clarkbthe gerrit module has a lot more moving parts particularly for configuration19:30
clarkbI only just started poking at gerrit today, definitely need to look at it pretty closely19:30
fungii avoided using it when i built my test gerrit vm because i was unsure how much of a loaded gun it was, after acasual glance19:30
jeblairi guess it probably wouldn't actually have the empty repos in gerrit yet, right?19:30
jeblair(even though it would probably have a working replication config, and possibly empty git repos in /var for the apache mirrors?)19:31
clarkbjeblair: no, but it has the project lists and the replication config19:31
clarkba similar concern when we get to jenkins.o.o will be making sure that we don't have two masters fighting for the same sets of slaves19:32
jeblairall things being equal, it would be swell if we did not replicate empty repos to github, so we should either confirm that there is a key piece missing from puppet (like the git repos in gerrit), or engineer something in (like a do-not-configure-replication flag file or something)19:32
jeblairyeah, in both cases, there will be a shutdown/rsync/startup process, where i'm sure we won't want puppet agent running on either side.  :)19:33
jeblairsorry, an rsync/shutdown/rsync/startup process.  :)19:34
jeblairwe have moved both of them before, and it's not too hairy.19:34
clarkbgerrit will need DB syncing too. lots of little moving parts. should be fun. The module cleanup is just the first tiny step19:34
jeblairwe'll probably want to schedule these moves for a saturday or sunday.19:35
clarkbmaybe after the summit? do people usually get back to work with a passion or are they hungover/19:35
clarkbthat assumes we can be ready in two weeks19:36
jeblairclarkb: before or after summit shouldn't matter, esp on a weekend.19:36
jeblairit shouldn't be a huge amount of downtime (like .5 hour)19:37
jeblair(we'll schedule more for planning/safety)19:37
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jeblairalso, advantage of moving servers vs in-place upgrade is there is an obvious and not-too-difficult roll-back plan.  :)19:38
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clarkbI should probaby start an etherpad with a list of things that need to be done19:39
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fungispeaking of which, who handles the dns records (and how/where)?19:39
jeblairfungi: we do, via the rs openstack cloud servers account19:39
fungijeblair: okay, so low latency on getting those changed. awesome19:40
jeblairfungi: yes, very low.  :)19:40
fungithat does indeed make cut-over and fall-back quick19:40
jeblairfungi: and we can drop the ttl's to 300 a fews days before we start19:41
fungiall the better. i assume you don't get the opportunity to shuffle ip addressing between the vms though19:41
jeblairfungi: very unlikely considering the move from legacy -> nova19:42
fungibut as long as a half hour window is acceptable, then dns is certainly doable19:42
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clarkbwe took longer to upgrade jenkins last time :)19:43
jeblairand that had no notice.  :)19:43
* fungi spent too much time doing zero-downtime planned maintenance swaps in a former life19:43
fungiyeah, emergencies can't be helped. i think you guys knocked that out remarkably quickly though19:44
jeblairweekends really aren't that busy (except sundays seem busier than saturdays), and advance notice goes a long way.  :)19:44
jeblairany more #topics?19:45
fungia quick note on the jenkins doc job conversions19:45
jeblair#topic jenkins job builder job conversions19:46
*** openstack changes topic to "jenkins job builder job conversions"19:46
fungiper annegentle a few minutes ago, the artifact-id job-builder needs is apparently buried in each root pom.xml19:46
fungii need to go back through the ones i converted earlier and double-check them19:46
fungihopefully i either guessed correctly or they didn't break anything being wrong19:47
fungisince they're already merged now19:47
clarkbfungi: I am willing to bet if it set it wrong jenkins just updated the values afte rthe first run19:47
clarkband the job builder doesn't make changes very often so may not be a major issue19:48
fungihrm. so is that field actually needed in the job-builder configs if jenkins detects it with magic anyway?19:48
clarkbthat I don't know. I assume it is set in the job builder to provide a complete xml output19:49
fungii wondered about that, seeing as how there was no field in the webui to add it19:49
clarkbactually I think it does need it to avoid jenkins jobs making needless changes19:49
jeblairclarkb: jenkins jobs keeps its own cache, and only makes changes when the job is different than its cache19:50
jeblairclarkb: so it won't update a job if it changes in jenkins19:50
jeblairclarkb: but if the yaml changes, it would presumably remove the artifact id if it wasn't in the yaml19:50
jeblairmaybe that's what you were saying19:50
clarkbI wasn't thinking of the cache, but the second scenario is still a small problem19:51
jeblairbut if it doesn't hurt anything, getting rid of needless configuration in job builder would be nice19:51
clarkbmight need to dig into jenkins maven source to sort it all out though19:52
fungiand there is definitely some discrepancy between them in the doc jobs. i found some use the same id but others use the job name for that instead19:52
jeblairwhile we're on the subject, it's probably worth mentioning for the record that fungi, clarkb, annegentle, and I are all spent time last week and this week getting the last jenkins jobs that aren't defined by job builder converted.19:53
fungii've claimed another half-dozen and am chewing on them now19:53
fungithus the realization about the artifact-id field19:54
fungianyway, that's all i had on that19:56
clarkbrandom log grepping fact. zuul started over 2k jobs on September 20th19:56
clarkbgrep 'Build .* started' /var/log/zuul/zuul.log.2012-09-20 | wc -l19:57
jeblair(graphing data from zuul would be fun, i think)19:57
jeblairand on that bombshell...19:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"19:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct  2 19:58:18 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ci/2012/ci.2012-10-02-19.01.html19:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ci/2012/ci.2012-10-02-19.01.txt19:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ci/2012/ci.2012-10-02-19.01.log.html19:58
clarkbI was trying to quantify how much quieter weekends are19:58
clarkbnumber of jobs during the week seems to typically be around 1.5k/day and falls to 100 ish/day on weekends19:59
jeblairclarkb: times around the release may be different than other times.  :)19:59
fungiright, would be good to know when peaks and valleys are for maintenance activity19:59
clarkbjeblair: good point.19:59
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ttxbcwaldon, vishy, gabrielhurley, danwent, annegentle, davidkranz: around ?21:00
davidkranzttx: here21:01
bcwaldonttx: hey21:01
ttxok, let's get started21:01
davidkranzI mean, o/21:01
ttxmissing vishy, he will catch up21:01
ttx#startmeeting project21:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct  2 21:01:39 2012 UTC.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'project'21:01
ttxAgenda @ http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting21:01
ttxwoo, 100% hit21:01
ttxWe'll spend most of the meeting looking into Design Summit organization status.21:01
ttxbut first lets start with...21:02
ttx#topic Folsom release post-mortem21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Folsom release post-mortem"21:02
ttxDo we know of anything grossly wrong that we let through ?21:02
ttxNothing embarassing was brought to my attention...21:02
ttxall good ?21:03
heckjttx: we found a bootstrapping issue with PKI tokens in Keystone - working it now21:03
ttxheckj: is it in http://wiki.openstack.org/ReleaseNotes/Folsom ?21:03
heckjit wasn't default - working to get it working as an option in devstack to resolve21:03
heckjttx: not yet21:03
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ttxheckj: ok, link when available21:03
ttxanything else ?21:04
gabrielhurleyttx: the "edit flavor" feature in horizon is also slightly unstable, but I need to coordinate with nova on how to make it better. it may or may not be backport-able once it's resolved. Tracked in https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/105779921:04
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1057799 in horizon "Edit flavor unstable" [High,Confirmed]21:04
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ttxgabrielhurley: same, maybe mention it in release notes21:04
ttxWhile it's fresh, any comment on the process that we should address next time ?21:04
ttxok, we'll have a design summit session on release cycle anyway21:05
gabrielhurleyoverall it seemed way smoother than the essex release. +121:05
ttxyeah, went quite well, I think21:06
ttx#topic Design Summit organization21:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit organization"21:06
ttx#info The Design Summit is a track with a series a open discussions about Grizzly development, organized around topics21:06
ttxseries of*21:06
ttx#info Each topic lead is responsible for selecting content to fill allocated slots21:06
ttx#info You can redirect session suggestions to other (more appropriate) topics21:06
ttx#info You can refuse some of them (and redirect their proposer to the "Unconference" room)21:06
ttxThis is especially true of stuff that looks too much like a classic speaker presentation21:07
ttx#info You can merge multiple preapproved sessions into a single schedule slot21:07
ttx#info Finally, you can keep a few empty slots, that should facilitate scheduling21:07
ttxI'm available all week to help you with session selection and scheduling21:07
ttxIdeally, we should have the set of approved sessions at the end of the week, so that we can work on scheduling early next week.21:08
ttxWould that work for everyone ?21:08
markmcsounds good21:08
gabrielhurleyworks for me21:08
jgriffithsounds alright21:08
ttxShould we communicate a common deadline for session proposal ? Or do it per-topic ?21:08
gabrielhurley+1 to common deadline21:08
heckjI'm fine with a general one21:08
jgriffithI'd vote mass email/deadline21:09
bcwaldoneasier that way for sure21:09
ttxEOD Thursday ?21:09
ttxor tomorrow ?21:09
bcwaldonnot tomorrow21:09
gabrielhurleyThursday to give people time to read the email and propose a topic21:09
jgriffith+1 for EOD thurs21:09
heckjpref for thursday21:09
ttx#action ttx to send deadline for proposals Thursday EOD21:09
ttxOK... let's look into the status of each topic now...21:09
ttxYou can see the graph for each topic at:21:10
ttx#link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/topicstatus21:10
ttxAnd you can sort proposals by topic by clicking on the "Topic" column header on the main page21:10
ttx#topic Openstack-Common topic21:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Openstack-Common topic"21:10
ttxmarkmc: right at +10 as promised21:10
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markmcttx, I thought it was 9 ?21:10
markmcttx, I think I've got ~15 proposed ?21:11
ttxmarkmc: no, I mean your intervention time in the meeting, 10 minutes after start21:11
markmcttx, ah :)21:11
ttxYou have 14 proposals for 9 available slots21:11
markmcfor context ...21:11
* markmc is sitting in a pub :)21:11
markmcttx, figuring the dependency management might make sense to moving to the process track21:11
markmcwhich leaves 4 to cut21:11
ttxyes, I think that would help21:11
markmcI think 3 I can just reject21:11
ttxAll of the rest look interesting21:11
ttxThere are a few RPC talks that could be merged...21:12
heckjI can free up a slot or two from Keystone if that helps - under by 3 right now21:12
markmcand 1 or 2 might make more sense on the nova track21:12
ttxheckj: that doesn't really help unfortunately21:12
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* Vek can't make heads or tails of that graphs page21:12
ttxSame around monitoring...21:12
markmcthe 1 or 2 are new ideas that should really be proved in a specific project before common21:12
ttxAlso some discussions are likely to not require a full session (httplib one, for example)21:12
gabrielhurleyVek: the graph page is broken on wide screens. make your window smaller21:12
annegentlettx: I don't think the http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/topicstatus is updated for Documentation track?21:13
ttxgabrielhurley: yes, I realized that recently. Bad css21:13
markmcI don't think the httplib one is really a proposal that we can discuss, so that's one of the ones to pass on21:13
Vekgabrielhurley: boy, that is broken.  Thanks for the tip.21:13
ttxannegentle: I think it is, but wait for your turn :P21:13
annegentlettx: oh wide screen issue :)21:13
ttx#action ttx to fix wide screen on topicstatus screen21:14
markmcttx, basically, I think I can squeeze it into the 9 slots but a slot extra would help21:14
* gabrielhurley is a frontend developer. lol.21:14
ttxmarkmc: I'm available to help you cut21:14
markmcttx, cool21:14
ttxQuestions ?21:14
ttx#topic Process topic21:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Process topic"21:14
ttxI have 14 proposals for 14 available slots.. but markmc will add one21:14
markmcwhat do I do to move deps management to process ?21:15
ttxmarkmc: on your review screen, click on the topic of the session you want to switch21:15
ttxI think we have all the important subjects covered21:15
ttxI already pre-approved 10, I was waiting on potential topic switches to select the last set21:15
ttxQuestions on the Process topic ?21:15
ttx#topic QA topic21:16
*** openstack changes topic to "QA topic"21:16
ttxdavidkranz: o/21:16
ttx8 proposals for 7 available slots21:16
davidkranzI have 8 for 7 slots now.21:16
ttxLooks like all the important stuff is covered...21:16
ttxUpgrade testing, configuration testing, performance testing, gating21:16
ttxSuggestions: there are a lot of sessions around integration testing, you can probably regroup them and spare one...21:16
ttxLike make only 2 sessions out of "OpenStack configuration Testing", "Gating with integration testing" and "Use of testtools and testrepository"21:17
ttxIf all else fails, the CirrOS session can certainly move to Unconference room.21:17
davidkranzttx: Yeah. I'm also not sure a whole session is neededd for CirrOS21:17
davidkranzttx: I'll figure something out.21:17
ttxdavidkranz: ok, let me know if you need help21:18
ttxQuestions on QA ?21:18
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ttx#topic Keystone topic21:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Keystone topic"21:18
ttxheckj: o/21:18
* heckj waves21:18
ttx6 proposals for 9 available slots, all preapproved21:18
ttxheckj: Are you expecting/looking for more session proposals ?21:18
heckjlast summit there were a number of last minute sessions, not sure what to expect this year - I think we have more open than we may fill21:19
ttxnote that you're placed on the Thursday, where ending early is not that much of an issue21:19
ttxheckj: do you have your important subjects already covered by the current proposals ?21:20
heckjyep, although I'm sure the federation one will be the trickiest and most prone to bleed widely into other topics21:20
ttxQuestions on Keystone ?21:21
ttx#topic Swift topic21:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Swift topic"21:21
ttxnotmyname: hey21:21
ttx8 proposals for 8 available slots so far21:21
notmynameya, I hope a few others come in21:21
ttxit's been filling up fast today21:21
ttxin case of emergency you can probably fold one small session into the feature list walkthrough21:22
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ttxQuestions on the Swift topic ?21:23
ttx#topic Glance topic21:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Glance topic"21:23
ttxbcwaldon: o/21:23
bcwaldonttx: hey21:23
* ttx refreshes21:23
ttxstill 2 proposals for 5 available slots21:24
bcwaldonttx: yep, I havent had time to scheuld any yet21:24
ttxThat's the most undersubscribed topic :)21:24
bcwaldonttx: aw :(21:24
ttxI suspect you'll add stuff from you ?21:24
bcwaldonyes sir21:24
bcwaldonbut I do like proxying everything through markwash21:25
ttxok, that should fix it :)21:25
ttxyes, markwash-proxying is the new fun, I heard21:25
ttxQuestions on Glance ?21:25
ttxonto the large topics now...21:25
ttx#topic Quantum topic21:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Quantum topic"21:26
ttxdanwent: hola21:26
ttx26 proposals for 22 available slots !21:26
danwentwe'll put the now famous "quantum squeeze" on21:26
bcwaldontermie: thanks for sticking up for me21:26
danwenta fair number can hopefully we be squeezed to half-sessions21:26
ttxI'd wear a T-shirt that only shows "Glance"21:27
danwentand we'll merge a few more.21:27
ttxdanwent: so you think it looks good ?21:27
danwenti'm actually still expecting a few more to come in21:27
ttxahah. You'll love the new merge feature21:27
ttxLet me explain it a bit21:27
danwentcan't wait...21:27
danwenti hope its a free upgrade from the "standard" version21:27
ttxOn the schdeuling screen you can basically drag multiple sessions onto a single time slot21:28
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danwentgreat… I was just wondering if I was going to have to recreate a bunch of new sessions when merging.21:28
ttxThe default title is the first one you dragged, and the description is a concatenation of the merged descriptions21:28
danwentvery nice21:28
ttx*you can edit title and add a preface to the concatenation21:28
ttxin the end the scheduled session all appear to take only one slot on the graph (if everything works as planned)21:29
danwenti'll be your biggest beta tester21:29
ttxso you can actually preapprove more than you have21:29
ttxas long as you plan to merge them at scheduling time21:29
ttxQuestions on Quantum ? or on Merging ?21:30
ttx#topic Cinder topic21:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Cinder topic"21:30
ttxjgriffith: bonjour21:30
ttx7 proposals for 7 available slots21:31
ttxLooks good to me :) Do you have all the subjects you want covered ?21:31
jgriffithNope, but I plan to do some juggling tomorrow/Thursday21:31
jgriffithWill work out well in the end21:31
jgriffithI'll look at unconference sessions as a staple again :)21:32
ttxwell, in the end you have control, you can just pick sessions your proposed and drop everything else. So it should work out well.21:32
jgriffithFor me at least :)21:32
ttxQuestions on Cinder ?21:32
ttx#topic Nova topic21:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova topic"21:33
ttxvishy: o/21:33
ttxLooks like 22 proposals for 31 available slots21:33
ttxDo you have all the subjects you want covered already ? Or is nova-core expected to file more ?21:33
vishyi expect there will be more21:34
ttxIn case of need, there seem to be some merging potential, for example between:21:34
ttx"Improving Nova's database consistency" and "Nova database archiving strategy"21:34
ttxcould fit in a single 40-min slot about database improvements21:35
ttxbut if you're below the number allocated anyway...21:35
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ttxnote that it makes sense to leave a few empty slots on the Nova topic21:35
ttxotherwise it will be hard for you to attend some openstack-common / QA / Process topic, with your track running on all 4 days21:35
vishymakes sense21:36
vishylets give it a few more days for proposals to see how it fills up21:36
vishythen I will consolidate21:36
ttxvishy: will you need help reviewing stuff ?21:36
ttxor spend the next Nova meeting on it ?21:36
vishyyes i will21:37
ttxQuestions on Nova ?21:37
vishyI'm going to mention it in the meeting on thurs21:37
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ttx#topic Horizon topic21:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Horizon topic"21:38
ttxgabrielhurley: hello21:38
ttx4 proposals for 9 available slots21:38
ttxDoes that represent everything you had in mind for Grizzly?21:38
ttxor is there more to come ?21:38
gabrielhurleyyep. I expect to get maybe on more proposed regarding quantum, but that's about it21:38
gabrielhurleymost of what I want to talk about is cross-project ;-)21:39
heckjcant imagine...21:39
ttxlet me look if we can easily give the slots to someone else21:39
gabrielhurleyif it helps, feel free to give 3 or maybe even 4 away21:39
ttxHmm, we could give a few more to Cinder or QA21:40
jgriffithgabrielhurley: Wanna touch base tomororw EOD and see where Cinder is at?21:40
gabrielhurleysounds good to me21:40
jgriffithgabrielhurley: and if you have new stuff added21:40
jgriffithgabrielhurley: cool!21:41
ttxwe can make minimal changes to the topic layout21:41
ttxsince some people made travel plans around where that stuff was supposed to happen21:41
gabrielhurleywell, I'm happy to be acommodating where possible21:42
ttxLooking at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmUn0hzC1InKdEtNWVpRckt4R0Z0Q0Z3SUc1cUtDQXc#gid=121:42
ttxit's easy to increase QA or Cinder and reduce Horizon, but not so easy to give sessions from Horizon to openstack-common21:43
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ttxok, I'll look into options to recover a few sessions from Horizon21:43
ttx#action ttx to see how we can make best use of unused Horizon slots (at least 2)21:44
ttxQuestions on horizon ?21:44
ttx#topic Documentation topic21:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Documentation topic"21:44
ttxannegentle: o/21:44
ttx3 proposals left for 3 available slots21:45
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annegentleyep all full up21:45
ttxannegentle: would you have needed more room ? Or will you just overflow to the unconference room if need be ?21:45
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annegentlettx: I don't think docs needed another slot21:46
ttxtrying to see if our preallocation was way off-target21:46
ttxannegentle: ok21:46
annegentlettx: and absolutely can overflow to unconf21:46
annegentlewell we beat glance. Just kidding bcwaldon !21:46
* annegentle cracks herself up21:46
ttxfwiw unconference will start on Tuesday, the room in Monday is used by incubation wannabees, Heat and Ceilometer21:46
ttxroom was always empty on day one anyway21:47
ttxQuestions on doc ?21:47
ttx#topic Open discussion21:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion"21:47
ttxAnything else, anyone ?21:47
ttxannegentle: go for it21:48
annegentlehow would you all define "done" for documentation and the Folsom release?21:48
annegentlePTLs especially21:48
ttxhmm, would define "done" when all critical/high bugs are covered. which turns the question into what makes a release-critical doc issue...21:49
danwentannegentle:  from quantum, i think we're done from a "planned content" perspective.  bug fixes and other minor enhancements will filter in, or course.21:49
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annegentlewe are far from having all High covered, and never have had all High covered…. hm.21:50
annegentleand I do feel that the ones marked High are topics asked for from document consumers.21:51
annegentlepossibly, though, the openstack-manuals project is so wide in scope that we can't target well. One step coming up is to separate out the api docs into another bug tracking Launchpad project. Even so, that doesn't get all High done.21:52
annegentleany other input?21:52
annegentlevish, bcwaldon, heckj thoughts?21:53
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annegentlejgriffith: your doc topic is the least updated right now, do you have a sense of when you'd be comfortable with a "release" doc?21:53
jgriffithannegentle: End of week I'm hoping21:54
ttxannegentle: do you think we can have an objective metric to measure "release quality" when it comes to doc ?21:55
heckjannegentle: tricky question - I don't have a good answer on what's "done"21:55
jgriffithttx: annegentle any thoughts to requiring docs for new feature submits going forward?21:55
annegentlettx: doc bugs to recognize gaps help. But, it's hard to say "don't release until all doc bugs are closed"21:56
jgriffithActually, controversial question for everyone I guess21:56
annegentlejgriffith: mostly the people submitting patches don't have enough of a production system to write operator-level docs.21:56
annegentlejgriffith: it comes up all the time, but I'd rather have devs write for devs and operators write for operators21:56
ttxannegentle: well, docs are never "finished" or "complete"... per themselves. But you can come up with objectives and track their completion21:56
annegentlettx: absolutely.21:57
ttxannegentle: a bit like we do for feature blueprint21:57
ttxannegentle: even if that means reducing importance of some (so that they are no longer release-blocking) when we approach deadliens and see that our velocity is not high enough21:57
ttxannegentle: the trick is, the timeframe is slightly different from core projects release21:58
annegentlettx: docs are in much better shape than ever before21:58
ttxno point in working on documenting options at grizzly-121:58
annegentlettx: right21:59
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ttxannegentle: i'd say it's an ongoing discussion. I'll try to think about it and share my thoughts with you in San Diego21:59
annegentlettx: I think that I've been mentally "reducing importance of some (so that they are no longer release-blocking)" but perhaps need to mark them as so in launchpad21:59
annegentlettx: would like some assistance in the actual triaging if you're willing22:00
ttxannegentle: for the core projects I've been using "essential" in blueprints to mean "release blocking"22:00
annegentlettx: ok, noted22:00
annegentle thanks for the discussion22:00
ttxthat said, I'm usually so much of a pain with essential blueprints (in order to be 99.99% sure they hit) that PTLs now hesitate to put them as high22:01
ttxexcept bcwaldon, who puts all blueprints to "essential"22:01
ttxok, anything else anyone ?22:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"22:02
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct  2 22:02:01 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:02
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2012/project.2012-10-02-21.01.html22:02
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2012/project.2012-10-02-21.01.txt22:02
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2012/project.2012-10-02-21.01.log.html22:02
ttxthanks everyone22:02
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