Thursday, 2012-11-08

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vishy#startmeeting nova21:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov  8 21:00:16 2012 UTC.  The chair is vishy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:00
vishyis anyone here today?21:00
mtreinishI'm here21:00
* Vek waves21:00
russellb hi21:00
vishywell hello everyone!21:00
vishy#topic Agenda21:01
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* devananda waves21:01
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vishycomstud: are you here?21:01
vishyskipping the first topic to give him time to show up21:01
vishywe may have a DST casualty21:02
vishy#topic Baremetal Driver21:02
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*** openstack changes topic to "Baremetal Driver"21:02
vishyso devananda let me know the other day that hp is putting a group of people specifically on bare-metal21:02
rmksort of here I should say21:02
devanandayep, we are21:03
vishyso he was wondering about just merging the existing code and cleaning it up afterwards21:03
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russellbbig -1 to that idea ...21:03
vishyso collaboration is easier21:03
russellbcouple of points21:03
comstudvishy: here21:03
russellbfirst, i don't think we should sacrifice review quality, every, especially for something really big21:03
russellband second, why can't collaboration happen outside of trunk?21:03
devanandathing is, it's not that easy for _us_ to clean up someone else's review21:04
rmkWhy not just use a separate github repo until we're closer to the point of needing reviews?21:04
russellbdevananda: have you tried to talk to them?21:04
devanandarussellb: yep21:04
devanandathey've accepted 3 pull requests fo far for small things21:04
devanandaand squashed them into their reviews w/o any attribution21:04
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devanandanot that that's a big deal for small things21:04
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devanandabut when we throw 4 or 5 devs full time at this, it's kinda not so good21:05
russellbso definitely a collaboration challenge, but throwing it into trunk before it passes code review can't be the answer ...21:05
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devanandaas long as the review is owned by not-us, how do we develop/improve it at a reasonable pace and using the tools we're all used to?21:05
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vishyone option would be put it on stackforge21:06
russellbsure, could do that21:06
vishyand bring it back in once it is clean21:06
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dansmithI think that's a much better idea21:06
russellbthough someone is going to have to do some squashing if you go that route ...21:06
Vekdidn't we once upon a time have a discussion about long-running branches?21:07
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russellbso anyway, stackforge, or just a github repo21:07
russellbno matter the tool, the collaboration problem is going to still exist21:07
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devanandahow does stackforge / squashing work w.r.t retaining commit history / authorship?21:07
devanandawhen N people at M companies are collaborating on something?21:08
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devanandalooking at out-of-trunk forks of things like reddwarf, where >1 company work on it, it looks like fail to me21:08
russellbwe need to standardize on a header like "Co-Authored-By" or whatever21:08
dansmithyeah, that's a different problem, IMHO21:08
dansmithsolved in other communities without much trouble21:08
devanandaso a 10k line patch becomes co-authord by 10 ppl?21:08
dansmithI think we should shoot for smaller chunks anyway, shouldn't we?21:09
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dansmith10k is ridiculous :)21:09
Vekdevananda: given our gating, I just don't see any other way of doing it, and +1 to dansmith re smaller chunks21:09
devanandadansmith: the crrent NTT reviews are around 1 - 2k each, i think21:09
dansmithdevananda: yeah, which are still too large, IMHO21:09
devanandagranted, none of them actually _work_ without the others21:09
vishydansmith: smaller chunks doesn't really help if a lot of collaborating is happening on each chenk21:09
vishy* chunk21:10
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devanandafunctionally, we can't test or develop any of these pieces independently of eachother21:10
dansmithvishy: they can be smaller chunks before merge and larger for collab, no?21:10
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russellbso, fork it if you have to.  if they won't take your pull requests, and you honestly produce a better end result, we merge that?21:10
russellbi'd really like to see everyone work together and play nicely though :)21:10
comstudrussellb: boooo21:10
devanandaNTT and ISI have been very eager to work with us21:11
lifelessso heres the problem21:11
lifelessthere is a large code change21:11
lifelesswith lots of moving parts21:11
dansmithis the problem that they won't attribute, or that their attribution isn't enough for you? i.e. you need git authorship21:11
russellbcomstud: boo?21:11
comstudplaying nice removes drama i like to watch21:11
lifelessit - frankly - needs a massive overhaul, to reduce duplication with nova's core, make better use of e.g. quantum.21:11
lifelessthe folk working on it are playing nice with each other but:21:12
devanandadansmith: no. attribution is a part but not the whole issue. dev pace is the bigger problem IMO21:12
russellbcomstud: heh, well as long as we agree that drama is not a reason to merge a huge amount of code that isn't ready21:12
lifeless - we have no place to record bugs.21:12
devananda^ ++ to bugs on LP21:12
uvirtbot`devananda: Error: "++" is not a valid command.21:12
lifeless - attribution is going to be a PITA when it lands: if we flatten everything, a dozen or more folk will show as one commit21:12
russellbtons of projects seem to have good pace without openstack infrastructure :)21:12
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dansmithso, I've been mostly ignoring the patches,21:13
lifeless   - if we don't, its going to be many hundreds, if not thousands of patches landing as a single rebased set on trunk21:13
dansmithbut I agree with lifeless  that they seem to need an overhaul21:13
lifelessthere are scaling and design issues that happened because the core thing was written off in a silo21:13
russellbthat has been my impression as well21:13
lifelessrather than a bunch of incremental work on trunk.21:13
devanandait definitely needs an overhaul, but us forking NTT's code and doing that is the wrong way to collaborate with them21:13
dansmithhence my concern on just merging it and sorting out the survivors later21:13
vishylifeless / devananda is it possible to implement it with a small driver portion in trunk and the majority a separate install?21:13
lifelessThe longer we keep it out of trunk *the worse the problem gets*21:13
devanandavishy: i'll take another look at it from that angle, but off-hand, no.21:14
lifelessSo, my suggestion here is to figure out how to mitigate the fallout on *non-baremetal-stuff* in trunk, then land it wholesale21:14
Vekis there any way to handle this using branching, i.e., branch to a monster topic branch, handle all the collaboration there, then once it passes tests in situ and conflicts have been resolved, then we just merge it into core?21:14
lifelessand fix in situ once the structural problem has been resolved.21:14
vishywe could do a special case ff-merge i supose.21:14
lifelessvishy: we might end up with that, my concern as above is to remove the structural thing that is exacerbating the problem every day21:14
lifelessvishy: like - I want to totally delete the baremetal-deploy-helper21:15
devanandayep. that's big on our plan21:15
lifelessvishy: but to do that requires work to get baremetal w/quantum in play21:15
vishyok so it sounds like there is opposition to the jfmi (just freaking merge it) plan21:16
lifelessvishy: thats tricky at best with baremetal something that you need a branch of devstack, adhoc sql etc to get going : and we're pushing that stuff upstream as fast as its bits become relevant to the various projects21:16
russellbhuge opposition from me21:16
vishyfyi the 1st patch is about to co in21:16
vishywhich will help a bit.21:16
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russellbscheduler one?21:16
devanandavishy: you mean the scheduler change?21:16
vishydevananda: yes21:16
lifelessso, one thing - would you guys be happy with bugs in the baremetal branch being in main nova launchpad bugs? tagged baremetal ?21:17
lifelessThat would remove one part of the issue around collaboration21:17
vishylifeless: I don't mind that, although why not use github issues?21:18
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lifeless(and give data for folk concerned about performance and design)21:18
lifelessvishy: because we'd need to migrate the bugs to LP as each commit gets merged.21:18
lifelessvishy: thats pretty wasteful21:18
russellbLP bugs are fine, as long as they tagged well enough21:18
lifelessvishy: I have much better things to do than to write bug migration tools between disparate systems ;)21:18
jog0lifeless:  if we have a long running branch as part of main repo then using main nova LP bugs makes sense too IMHO21:18
russellbhopefully it's not too high volume21:18
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lifelessrussellb: you can exclude baremetal tagged bugs from any subscription you have21:19
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russellbwe have enough bugs to go through as it is ... so hopefully those involved triage them and keep them in good shape21:19
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lifelessrussellb: and then ignore them21:19
russellbsounds like work :)21:19
lifelessrussellb: I will commit to doing that if you like21:19
russellbi'm fine seeing them21:19
vishyi have trouble seeing how it will make a huge difference but if it helps i don't mind21:19
russellbi just don't want 20 baremetal bugs in my queue of stuff that hasn't been triaged21:19
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lifelessI've just setup a subscription just for them21:20
lifelessAs long as the nova PTL etc are happy with me getting in there, consider them triaged.21:20
vishydevananda: you guys are from the same company as mtaylor so you could try to convince him to set up another branch in nova where you can collaborate.21:20
vishyif you really feel like it is worth it over github21:20
devanandaat least for now it'll probably be largely us (me/lifeless) managing the barmetal bugs21:21
comstudrussellb: i feel like this is another case for a more general nova-compute (splitting at driver layer)21:21
lifelessvishy: we can do that, but the question is a nova project one not CI plumbing :)21:21
russellbso who gets +2 rights on the branch?21:21
vishyit would need a new group nova-baremetal21:21
devanandavishy: not quite sure i follow what having another branch gets us21:21
vishyhonestly I think it makes it more complicated21:21
russellbvishy: who approves who goes into nova-baremetal ?  :-)21:21
devanandabesides that :)21:21
lifeless+1 on it being complicated21:21
vishyyou could use all of the normal openstack tools.21:21
vishyif i were doing it though i would just start a shared org on github and put the code there21:22
vishyand do pull requests21:22
dansmithI'm thinking this approach might apply to cells and whatever the NBT is.. perhaps it's worth documenting the process,21:22
lifelesslet me repeat the problem statement21:22
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dansmithand the conditions for being considered for this special treatment?21:22
lifelessthe problem is that there is a combination of A) lots of code, B) lots of organisations, C) *not* getting review by the reviewers of its final destination.21:22
devanandathat's easy enough for us _IF_ we wanted to fork nova and maintain our own project outside of trunk. but we think that's a bad idea21:23
lifelessC is the crux: any work we do without C being inverted, means review debt for when the final merge happens.21:23
vishyso it sounds like we need some core volunteers21:23
vishyto join the effort21:23
lifelessI'd be delighted to work towards being a nova core21:24
lifelessbut you guys don't know me yet :)21:24
vishythe obvious candidates are markmc and myself21:24
vishysince we've reviewed the code quite a bit21:24
russellbright, you guys are already providing feedback21:24
vishyi think devananda has been doing a great job with reviews also21:24
vishyso i will volunteer markmc21:24
russellbheh, who's not here to decline21:25
russellbbut he has been involved a good bit already21:25
vishyperfect it is decided21:25
vishyseriously though21:25
vishydevananda/lifeless, can you guys ping me if you need help on specific points?21:25
vishyand markmc as well21:25
vishyI think if you guys attack it from a cleanup perspective we will be happier with it in general21:26
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russellbbut i don't think we've solved the collaboration problem21:26
devanandarussellb: exactly21:26
vishywhy not21:26
vishyshared org on github isn't good enough?21:26
russellboh, i think it is21:26
russellbi just don't know that i heard anyone agree with you that it was good (other than me)21:26
devanandavishy: perhaps i'm just missing the end part21:27
devanandalet's say we do the shared github21:27
russellbwith some nova-core involvement hopefully21:27
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devanandalifeless, myself, and other hp folk do lots of work, and NTT/ISI guys do some work,21:28
devanandaand a few core people kinda watch what we do21:28
russellband eventually it has to be reviewed again21:28
devanandaa) there's no gerrit to realy get people to review things21:28
russellbgithub has code review stuff in pull requests21:28
devanandaeh, ok. with human gate?21:28
dansmithwhat about the CI part?21:29
devanandaright. that was going to be my (b)21:29
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devanandano CI. easy for anyone to break it and not know21:29
russellbpersumably you can still have a system run periodic test runs on the branch21:29
devanandalastly, what's the final path to merging it into trunk in, say, a few months21:29
russellbsmokestack can do that on arbitrary git repos21:29
russellbit has to get reviewed just like everything else IMO21:29
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devanandarussellb: yes, it does. i just hesitate to force us to use different tools21:30
vishydevananda: so it sounds like you are pushing for another branch in ci21:30
vishywhich i thought we just decided wasn't worth it...21:30
* devananda scrolls back 21:30
dansmithso, remind me: now that this is all done, it still doesn't seem like something that can be broken up into much smaller pieces and submitted normally, is that right?21:30
vishydansmith: it would be hard to do so correct21:31
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vishydansmith: but if the code is only new files we could just ff merge the whole thing21:32
russellbhopefully things that affect other parts of core code are submitted in pieces along the way21:32
dansmithright, so,21:32
russellband then in the end it's a fairly self-contained review21:32
russellb(even if big)21:32
russellbsuch is life21:32
dansmithif we could get the core changes submitted normally, either before or after the whole-file bits,21:32
vishyi think that is the way to go, do core changes against trunk21:33
dansmiththen it seems preferable to do that over this other approach,21:33
vishyother stuff separately21:33
lifelessdansmith: so I think it *can* be split out, but the fundamental problem there is that what exists today is kindof shortest-path-to-solution rather than best-path21:33
dansmithwhich will end up with a lot less visibility into all of the changes, I think21:33
lifelesshaving climbed through it21:33
dansmithlifeless: yeah, understand, but people do this all the time21:33
dansmithlifeless: they write it one way, learn a bunch, and then have to make it into something that's actually acceptable :)21:33
dansmith(or reviewable)21:33
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russellb+1 :)21:34
lifelessdansmith: sure; the scale here is perhaps the root of the issue ;)21:34
dansmiththe scale makes it more important, IMHO :)21:34
vishyso i don't thinke we have really come up with a solution yet21:34
russellbwell, nothing is easy, but the way I see it ...21:35
lifelessdansmith: right21:35
russellb1) no, it can't go into trunk now, it's not ready21:35
vishylifeless / devananda: i think you should just focus on cleaning up each individual review already in queue21:35
lifelessin fact, it would be almost better to start over:)21:35
russellb2) keep making it better, submitting core changes as pieces as you can21:35
dansmithlifeless: sometimes it is! :)21:35
vishyget them up to snuff, then you can refactor to your hearts content using the normal review process.21:35
lifeless[not kidding - identify each problem that needs solving, which we have a good list of, and do targeted work to solve it]21:36
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vishylifeless / devananda: It sounds like anything else will really slow things down21:36
dansmithyou guys could start poaching bits out of the existing reviews,21:36
dansmithfixing them and submitting them against core with proper attribution, right?21:37
devanandavishy: that route means we do our testing/devel off of their fork, giving them pull requests, and waiting for them to update the reviews21:37
dansmiththen the NTT folks would remove that bit from their patch and re-post21:37
dansmithwash, rinse, repeat until the actual patches are small and specific21:37
devanandavishy: unless i am misunderstanding21:37
vishydevananda: not really, you can cleanup and push over them if they dont' mind21:37
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devanandavishy: i'll ask. might be ok, and would simplify things21:38
vishydevananda: but I'm suggesting not to do the long term "right" cleanup21:38
vishybut the cleanup to make it mergable21:38
lifelessvishy: what is the bar for that ?21:38
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vishyi.e. a) it works b) doesn't break other core functionality21:38
lifelessso thats what I was proposing we do.21:39
vishyc) doesn't do really silly ugly python etc.21:39
devanandavishy: is it not there right now? jenkins is passing, isn't it? :)21:39
devananda(c) :P21:39
lifelessso we can do c) easily enough, and a and b are in play already I believe.21:39
vishyhonestly I don't have huge issues with the other patches in the queue21:39
lifelessrussellb: ^ is this sufficient for you?21:39
vishyI'd like to minimize them touching core code21:39
vishywhich is why we've spent so long on the first one21:39
russellbmaybe ... I haven't looked at the code very closely.21:39
russellbobviously the stuff that touches code outside the driver should be reviewed the most strictly21:40
russellbbut even the driver itself, there should be a quality bar ...21:40
devanandarussellb, vishy, afaik the only patch touching nova core is the first one, which you said was about to merge anyway21:40
russellbbeyond "it works"21:40
devanandathe others are all driver specific, or extra helpers in /bin/21:40
russellbyeah, but even the rest, have to consider the maintenance burden21:41
russellbhaving all these new people committed to working on it helps that21:41
vishyrussellb: I think we have a ton of volunteers helps21:41
vishydevananda has been very helpful to nova in general21:41
russellbi'm not going to say "sounds good" because i haven't looked at the code enough yet21:41
vishyand it sounds like lifeless is getting up to speed21:41
vishyaratu has been doing good work as well21:41
vishythey have a lot of people that will be valuable to nova in general imo21:42
russellbbut in general, as long as we're not merging something before it meets the same quality standards everything else is held to, then I'm good with it21:42
russellbthat was my #1 concern this meeting21:42
lifelessrussellb: so thats what confuses me :)21:42
vishyrussellb: fair enough. I think we should treat it as we do all other drivers though21:42
lifelessI can tell you that at a macro scale its quality is poor, but we can fix the micro scale easily.21:43
vishyas long as it is tested and has people working on it we don't need to get every inner part up to code and design quality standards.21:43
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lifelessMicro scale quality is a poor indicator for macro quality.21:43
vishyok lets move on for now21:43
vishywe will revisit next week21:43
vishylets try to get patch 1 in this week and then we can see how easy the others are21:44
vishy#topic Cells Status21:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Cells Status"21:44
comstudoh hi21:44
vishysimilar type of topic21:44
comstudI have updated the blueprint spec with additional information (config options and so forth)21:44
vishyunfortunately i haven't had time to look at this code21:44
comstudI'm working address some of the current concerns21:45
vishyhow are we doing with it so far?21:45
comstudI have enough feedback that I'll be busy for a couple days yet21:45
comstudI am out tomorrow and this weekend, though.21:45
russellbi wanted to review this week, got sidetracked by a security release and a frustrating qpid+eventlet bug ...21:45
russellbwill try again this week21:45
comstudi'm guessing i'll have it updated Monday21:45
comstudmight want to wait until then21:46
comstudShould have some additional info in doc strings to help reviewing.21:46
vishyoh eventlet, how I love thee21:46
vishycomstud: ok cool, so we are waiting on you for the moment21:46
vishy#topic Nova bugs21:46
comstudin any case, I'm not hurting for any more feedback at the moment21:46
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russellbah, cool, then i don't feel as bad :-p21:47
comstudya, no worries. i'm still working on splitting the 4.5K line patch up also21:47
vishydoing pretty well21:47
vishyrusselb is the big winner this week!21:47
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russellbi did it for the stats, no other reason21:48
vishyany important notes on bugs?21:48
dansmithand the chicks21:48
russellbvishy: haven't come across any new big ones worth noting here21:48
comstudi beat vish, at least.21:48
russellboh, there was one weird security thing that nobody has been able to reproduce21:48
vishycomstud: self-triage doesn't count!21:48
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vishy#topic grizzly-1 planning21:49
*** openstack changes topic to "grizzly-1 planning"21:49
comstudi find em and I fix em!21:49
uvirtbot`Launchpad bug 1074343 in nova "ec2 describe instances does not filter by project_id" [Undecided,Incomplete]21:49
russellbthat was the potential security thing worth looking at21:49
vishyso some stuff probably needs to move out of grizzly 121:50
dansmithI had a question:21:50
dansmithdon't we need to break up no-db-compute a bit?21:50
dansmithinto some pieces we can actually mark as done at some point? :)21:50
russellbdansmith: sure, that'd be good21:50
vishydansmith: we could21:50
vishydansmith: or we could just target it to g-3 :)21:51
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dansmithvishy: well, it's still just a huge chunk of work, seemingly too large to be one bp21:51
dansmithI'm jealous that russellb gets to have his name all over it :)21:51
dansmithand launchpad keeps mocking that I "have no assigned blueprints" ;)21:52
russellbseems reasonable to have some sub-bps21:52
russellbisolate-virt-drivers-from-db could be one ... final-bits-of-no-db-messaging another ...21:52
russellbfrom there it gets complicated :)21:52
russellbnext is figure-out-the-end-of-no-db-compute21:52
russellbthere ya go..21:52
russellbwant to file those?21:53
vishyok i moved out the ones that i'm pretty sure aren't g-121:53
russellbping me and i can approve and such21:53
russellbvish gave me magic powers21:53
vishyjog0: ping21:53
jog0vishy: pong21:53
vishyjog0: I targetted teh remove nova volume one to you21:53
jog0vishy: I just saw, thanks21:53
vishysince you have been submitting the remaining work21:53
vishyjog0: are you still doing aggregate based availability zones?21:54
jog0vishy: yes21:54
jog0haven't had a chance to dust off the code yet though21:54
vishyi don't know what happened to mtaylor's entry points stuff21:55
vishybut aside from cells and bare metal which we discussed everything else is looking decent.21:55
Vekit all expired; guess he hasn't had time to work on it21:55
russellbperformance problem stalled it21:55
vishystill waiting on code for
vishyi think hp has that somewhere21:56
vishyanyway i don't think there is anything horribly out of line21:56
vishy# topic General Discussion21:56
russellb4 minutes!21:56
vishy#topic General Discussion21:56
*** openstack changes topic to "General Discussion"21:56
russellbnova is busy.21:57
russellbfun times.21:57
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vishyi think i have to stop getting every review email21:59
russellbthat's intense21:59
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vishytakes me most of my day just keeping up with email21:59
dansmithvishy: you don't have to read them all :)21:59
* Vek has had days with 100+ nova review emails, right after having done a review day21:59
Vekcan't imagine what it would be like to get 'em all22:00
dansmithI get them all22:00
dansmithyou just have to be selective :)22:00
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russellbmark all as read is your friend22:00
dansmithscoring/tagging is your friend22:00
Vekkillfile is your friend :)22:00
russellbwoah now, that's advanced22:00
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Vekhehe :)22:01
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russellbvishy: #endmeeting?22:01
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russellbthanks a lot everybody :)22:02
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"22:02
openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov  8 22:02:09 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:02
openstackMinutes (text):
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devananda#startmeeting DB team meeting22:04
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov  8 22:04:10 2012 UTC.  The chair is devananda. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.22:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'db_team_meeting'22:04
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devanandahi all. busy afternoon :)22:04
devanandawho's sticking around?22:04
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devanandashall we touch on the action items from last week before going into the regular items?22:05
driptonIf we can do it faster than last week22:06
devanandai started some bp's for arranging the db cleanup22:06
devanandawe can probably add add'l nested bp's if needed22:06
devanandai think jog0 made a list of leaking sqlalchemy objects22:07
jog0devananda:  correct22:07
devanandavish and i talked about the on-delete triggers and he'd rather shy away fromt aht for now22:07
devanandausing the UNIQUE (column, deleted) approach that someone suggested at the summit22:08
devanandadripton was going to look for unused api calls. anything there?22:08
jog0sounds like a good first step22:08
driptonI dropped a patch for review today22:08
driptonbut it conflicts with another patch, so I'm waiting in line22:08
driptonThere were a bunch22:08
devanandai'll take a look at them tonight22:09
devanandathink that's all of last week22:09
devanandamain topics are db cleanup and no-db-compute22:10
devanandai've moved archiving under cleanup, as that just seems related to me22:10
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devanandajump on in if you have things to say about ^ :)22:10
russellbno-db-compute is chugging along.  dansmith is helping a bunch.22:11
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russellbnone of it really affects the db layer code22:11
russellbbut we're doing a huge pile of moving around what code uses the db layer :)22:11
russellbbut let us know if you  have any questions/concerns about what we're up to22:11
devanandarussellb: i haven't been able to keep up with all the patches...22:12
russellbyeah, it's a lot22:12
devanandabut what i've seen have been good22:12
russellbthey generally fall into 1 of 2 categories right now22:12
russellb1) moving db accesses happening in nova-compute up to nova-api, and having more data sent in the messages22:12
russellb2) pulling db accesses out of the virt drivers and into the compute manager code so that it's all in one place22:13
dansmith2 is about done22:13
russellbdansmith: awesome!22:13
dansmiththere's a single query left in nova/virt22:13
dansmithnot including any obscure magical db references, which will be harder to find22:14
russellbnot a whole lot left of 1 either ... a few probably22:14
devanandaso, my other hat -- we'll have to go do that work for baremetal as well22:14
devanandaa fair bit of db access in virt/baremetal22:14
russellbah, yeah ...22:14
dansmithyeah, I should help look for those in the pending reviews22:14
devanandabut most of it is accessing the bm db, not nova, iirc22:15
russellbwell it's actually not as impotant for virt/baremetal, really22:15
russellbright, its own db22:15
russellband there aren't guest VMs running on the compute machine22:15
dansmithbut trying to stick to the pattern of the others would be nice22:15
russellbso, some of the optimizations could apply if it's adding new rpc stuff22:15
dansmithat least for auditing issues, I think22:15
russellbdansmith: true ... but i'm not sure how that would work if each nova-compute has its own db in barematal land22:15
russellb(which some people have objected to btw)22:16
dansmithrussellb: not for the baremetal db,22:16
dansmithI mean for the regular nova db stuff22:16
russellboh, right22:16
russellb+1 to that then22:16
devananda>1 nova-bm-compute can share one nova_bm db, i believe22:16
russellbbut still, security concern doesn't apply in the same way, so *shrug*22:16
russellbstill the upgrade side of it though ...22:17
russellbmore than one service talking to the same db, and you want to live upgrade them22:17
dansmiththat impossible pie-in-the-sky goal :)22:17
russellbfun times22:17
russellbheh, we'll get there someday22:17
devanandaif you can take a look at the bm patches and give me some feedback on removing db access, that'd be apprciated :)22:18
* russellb puts it on "the list"22:18
russellbthe list has been too big lately :(22:18
russellbsame problem for us all22:18
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driptonJust FYI, I took a look at alembic for backportable DB migrations22:19
driptonWrote a script to convert most of our migration scripts from sqlalchemy-migrate to alembic, which mostly works.22:19
driptonBut I don't think I'll push it further until we *need* it.22:20
devanandamy feeling is that'd be good before we need it22:20
devanandaeg., if there's some major bug that requres a db migration back-port22:20
devanandawaiting for alembic at that point might be rough22:21
driptonTrue.  Maybe I'll start pushing sooner.  I'm waiting for Dan Prince to squash Folsom migration scripts.22:21
russellbdripton: have you asked him about that?22:22
russellbis he working on it?22:22
driptonrussellb: Yes, he wants to do it. I don't know if he's actually started, but he didn't want me to take it off his plate.22:22
devanandaanyone from db-common here today?22:24
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devananda#topic open discussion22:25
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jog0devananda: so we are going with UNIQUE (column, deleted) as a first pass?22:25
devanandajog0: that seems to be the shorter path to getting away from some of the race conditions22:26
devanandaactually, i was looking at postgres last night and it looks like they dont support INSERT .. ON DUP KEY UPDATE22:26
jog0so we may be forced to abandon the shadow table idea then?22:27
driptonIs there an equivalent workaround for postgres?22:27
devanandadripton: afaict, not really knowing postgres, the answer is "no"22:27
jog0well doing UNIQUE (column, deleted) sounds good to me.  DOo we want to aim for Grizzly-1 for this?22:27
devanandaatomic "upsert" as they call it isn't possible22:27
russellbi'm happy to see an active db team, thanks guys :)22:28
driptonI found a stack overflow post showing how to do it using exceptions, but it's ugly22:28
devanandayea, i found several examples using functions, exceptinos, etc... all ugly22:28
devanandaand none solvethe race condition22:28
devanandajog0: i think we should gather a list of places where it's appropriate to apply UNIQUE indexes22:28
jog0sounds good, how about an action item for next week22:29
devananda#action devananda to create list of methods that enforce uniqueness // tables that need UNIQUE indexes22:29
devanandai already have some notes on that, so it shouldn't take long to clean up22:30
jog0as this will be a pretty big change to the way things work the longer its in trunk the better22:30
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jog0also vishy had an interesting suggestion about sqlalchemy leaks ( and  I will be trying it out for next week. (my action item for next week)22:30
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devananda#action jog0 continue plugging leaking sqlalchemy objects22:31
jog0dripton:  did you find any read_deleted low hanging fruit?22:32
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driptonjog0: no, I did not.  It was all high-hanging fruit22:33
devanandajog0: any update on the benchmark logs?22:33
jog0dripton: too bad,  can you make a list so we can plan on how to attack them22:33
jog0devananda: not yet.  let me check if I saved the old log files though22:34
driptonjog0: I will make a list of read_deleted instances.22:34
jog0dripton:  thanks22:34
jog0devananda:  I found some old log files that I saved,   I can send them to you after the meeting22:35
devanandadripton: probably good to link that from one of the db-cleanup whiteboards22:35
devanandajog0: great, thanks22:35
driptondevananda: ok22:35
jog0they are pretty big, a few MBs22:35
jog0so pastebin may not work22:36
devananda#action dripton post a (link to a) list of read_deleted instances to db-cleanup whiteboard22:36
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devanandajog0: hm. we all have servers in clouds somewhere, right? :)22:36
devanandaor google drive or something22:37
devanandaif it's small enough to email, that's fine too22:37
jog0devananda: yeah,  I have to review them to  give you some context and then I will put them on google drive or email22:37
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devanandaanything else, or shall we wrap up a bit early?22:40
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driptonThat's all I have.22:40
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devanandathanks everyone22:41
* dripton waves goodbye22:41
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"22:41
openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov  8 22:41:34 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:41
openstackMinutes (text):
jog0devananda: I should have the log files ready in about an hour, have a few other things to take care of first22:42
devanandajog0: no worries. it might be a bit beforei look at them22:42
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mordredvishy, russellb: yeah - performance problem, and then I got sucked in to two weeks of conferences22:55
mordredvishy, russellb: I'll resurrect it soonish22:55
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