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| fifieldt | hi koolhead17 | 12:51 |
| koolhead17 | fifieldt, hello there | 12:51 |
| fifieldt | We have doc meeting in 10mins yes? | 12:52 |
| koolhead17 | Razique, hi | 12:52 |
| koolhead17 | fifieldt, cool | 12:52 |
| Razique | hi | 12:54 |
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| fifieldt | hi Daisy!~ | 12:57 |
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| Daisy | Hi | 12:58 |
| Daisy | I | 12:58 |
| Daisy | I'm here ! | 12:58 |
| Daisy | I tried several times. The network is not good here. | 12:58 |
| fifieldt | I have to use secure IRC to connect | 12:59 |
| Daisy | I use web IRC. :) | 12:59 |
| zykes- | irssi <3 | 12:59 |
| koolhead17 | cool. are we ready then? | 13:00 |
| fifieldt | I think we need Anne | 13:00 |
| fifieldt | she has to wake up early for this | 13:01 |
| koolhead17 | fifieldt, ooh. | 13:01 |
| koolhead17 | k | 13:01 |
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| fifieldt | it's 7AM in TX | 13:01 |
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| Daisy | yeah, very early time. | 13:02 |
| fifieldt | hopefully she has done the timezone conversion correctly | 13:03 |
| fifieldt | I get it wrong so often! | 13:03 |
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| fifieldt | does anyone know her contact number? | 13:04 |
| Daisy | no, I don't know. | 13:05 |
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| annegentle_ | hey sorry I'm a little late, anyone here for the Doc meeting? | 13:06 |
| Daisy | Anne comes ! Welcome ! | 13:06 |
| annegentle_ | yay! | 13:06 |
| fifieldt | hi annegentle_! | 13:06 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, waoo. GM :) | 13:06 |
| annegentle_ | I'm up but lost track of time, with all the kiddos getting ready :) | 13:06 |
| fifieldt | sorry for making you wake up so early :) | 13:06 |
| koolhead17 | :) | 13:06 |
| annegentle_ | ok, yay, let's get started | 13:06 |
| annegentle_ | #startmeeting Doc/Web | 13:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 13 13:06:38 2012 UTC. The chair is annegentle_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:06 |
| koolhead17 | Razique, ^^ | 13:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:06 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'doc_web' | 13:06 |
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| fifieldt | Agenda is at : http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting | 13:07 |
| annegentle_ | http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting | 13:07 |
| annegentle_ | er | 13:07 |
| annegentle_ | :) | 13:07 |
| annegentle_ | #topic Action items from last meeting | 13:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from last meeting" | 13:08 | |
| fifieldt | I didn't see any action items from last meeting | 13:08 |
| annegentle_ | There were none | 13:08 |
| annegentle_ | woo, moving on | 13:08 |
| fifieldt | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/doc_web_meeting/2012/doc_web_meeting.2012-10-08-20.02.html FYR :) | 13:08 |
| annegentle_ | #topic Folsom release branch now available | 13:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Folsom release branch now available" | 13:08 | |
| annegentle_ | I think you all saw that we were planning to make it on the mailing list, CI made the branch shortly afterwards | 13:08 |
| annegentle_ | There is one bug uncovered -- PDF links are broken | 13:09 |
| annegentle_ | the file names are blah-folsom.pdf for /trunk docs | 13:09 |
| annegentle_ | bug 1078076 | 13:09 |
| uvirtbot` | Launchpad bug 1078076 in openstack-manuals "FOLSOM : Unable to download PDF version of the documents" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078076 | 13:09 |
| annegentle_ | I haven't seen anything else though, and I can fix that today I believe. Might be a CI thing, might be in the book file (the PDF name) | 13:09 |
| fifieldt | this is because docs.openstack.org still points at /trunk for docs? | 13:10 |
| fifieldt | so a new /www/folsom/* needs to be created? | 13:10 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: my first guess is that I need to change the master branch book files to not have -folsom for pdf names in the book file | 13:10 |
| fifieldt | right | 13:10 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: I think there is a new www/folsom | 13:10 |
| fifieldt | my bad | 13:10 |
| annegentle_ | #link http://docs.openstack.org/folsom/ | 13:10 |
| annegentle_ | also related to the new branch is that the Folsom branch and forward do not contain API docs | 13:11 |
| annegentle_ | so the openstack-manuals repo is much more lightweigth | 13:11 |
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| fifieldt | brilliant | 13:11 |
| annegentle_ | #info openstack-manuals repo does not contain any API docs now, see openstack/api-site for those docs | 13:11 |
| annegentle_ | I like the separation for my own mental sanity | 13:12 |
| fifieldt | we also have the new launchpad for it too | 13:12 |
| fifieldt | think that popped up since last meeting | 13:12 |
| annegentle_ | Also related is that there are many DocImpact bugs now logged for Grizzly - thanks fifieldt for keeping up with those | 13:12 |
| annegentle_ | ah yes | 13:12 |
| fifieldt | #link https://launchpad.net/openstack-api-site | 13:12 |
| annegentle_ | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-api-site | 13:13 |
| annegentle_ | heh | 13:13 |
| annegentle_ | sorry | 13:13 |
| annegentle_ | and it's also nice so that we can see DocImpact affecting API separately from install/config/run | 13:13 |
| fifieldt | indeed | 13:13 |
| Daisy | great ! | 13:13 |
| annegentle_ | the API bugs are definitely going up in numbers | 13:13 |
| annegentle_ | Daisy: I think this move also helps with translation? Not really sure though | 13:13 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, and i hope we get some core devs from team helping us out with it | 13:14 |
| annegentle_ | koolhead17: yes I am very concerned with the lack of maintenance on API docs. | 13:14 |
| annegentle_ | ok, any questions on the Folsom release branch? | 13:14 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, we need some helping hand in docs too :P | 13:14 |
| fifieldt | Quantum, Cinder ? | 13:14 |
| koolhead17 | fifieldt, +1 | 13:14 |
| annegentle_ | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Documentation/HowTo#How_to_a_cherry-pick_a_change_to_a_stable_branch | 13:15 |
| Daisy | Anne: not sure | 13:15 |
| annegentle_ | ^^ that's how you add to the stable/folsom branch… need to update that page with folsom examples | 13:15 |
| uvirtbot` | annegentle_: Error: "^" is not a valid command. | 13:15 |
| annegentle_ | #topic Bug creation and process with DocImpact flag | 13:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bug creation and process with DocImpact flag" | 13:15 | |
| annegentle_ | So far fifieldt and I have kept up with the process of: 1) DocImpact email comes in 2) Read it and create a doc bug in the appropriate Launchpad place 3) Triage with as much info as is available | 13:16 |
| fifieldt | Seems like it's going well - we've tagged 13 bugs with grizzly milestone so far | 13:16 |
| fifieldt | #link https://launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+milestone/grizzly | 13:16 |
| annegentle_ | To me there is one part I'm unsure of - how will we know when it lands and the code changes? | 13:16 |
| fifieldt | I believe this is part of bug triage ...w | 13:17 |
| Daisy | oh. It's not a small workload. | 13:17 |
| fifieldt | when the patch is merged, we set the status to confirmed | 13:17 |
| fifieldt | and can in theory start working on it | 13:17 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: okay, fair enough. I will also ask CI if they have ideas | 13:17 |
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| fifieldt | I try to include the link to the gerrit page for patches in the launchpad bugs | 13:17 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: ok, I think I set one or two to Triaged, are you leaving them as Status: New? | 13:17 |
| fifieldt | so you can easily click through to merge | 13:18 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: yep, me too | 13:18 |
| fifieldt | So far I was leaving them as new | 13:18 |
| annegentle_ | any other process improvements there? | 13:18 |
| fifieldt | until they are merged | 13:18 |
| Daisy | Can the tag trigger email after the patch is merged? | 13:18 |
| fifieldt | but I'm happy with whatever works | 13:18 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: ok sounds good. I'll also see if there's any additional improvements. | 13:18 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, for the folsom release of docs is our arch diagrams and stuff modified covering the new components? | 13:18 |
| annegentle_ | #action Anne to ask CI team if there's notification capability with a patch with DocImpact actually merges | 13:18 |
| annegentle_ | koolhead17: not with new cinder? | 13:19 |
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| annegentle_ | koolhead17: log a bug if you know of a diagram missing cinder | 13:19 |
| fifieldt | Potential action point: Send an followup email to the dev list thanking them for their response to the ":use docimpact" email ? | 13:19 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: perfect, yes | 13:19 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, i already have | 13:19 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, i don`t see even Quantum in the arch :( | 13:19 |
| annegentle_ | #action fifieldt to send an followup email to the dev list thanking them for their response to the ":use docimpact" email | 13:19 |
| annegentle_ | koolhead17: bug number please? for the notes? | 13:19 |
| * koolhead17 checks | 13:20 | |
| fifieldt | https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1076282 | 13:20 |
| uvirtbot` | Launchpad bug 1076282 in openstack-manuals "Modification needed in Architecture Diagram" [Low,Confirmed] | 13:20 |
| annegentle_ | koolhead17: can you add an Agenda item to talk about the gaps you still see? | 13:20 |
| annegentle_ | we'll keep going through the Agenda we have | 13:20 |
| annegentle_ | ok anything else on DocImpact? | 13:20 |
| koolhead17 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1076282 | 13:20 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, ok | 13:20 |
| annegentle_ | #topic Doc tools update - 1.5.1, 1.6.0 purposes and explanations | 13:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Doc tools update - 1.5.1, 1.6.0 purposes and explanations" | 13:20 | |
| annegentle_ | Okay, needed to explain what's going on with the 1.5.1 update | 13:21 |
| * fifieldt sits on edge of seat | 13:21 | |
| annegentle_ | I've been going through and changing as many pom files as I can to point to 1.5.1 so that the Google Analytics tracking can track across *.openstack.org | 13:21 |
| annegentle_ | it required a change to the maven plugin | 13:21 |
| annegentle_ | exciting stuff, yes!! :) | 13:21 |
| annegentle_ | Yesterday I found I can't build the Identity API 2.0 guide with 1.5.0 or 1.5.1. Sigh. | 13:22 |
| Daisy | what could Google Analytics track? | 13:22 |
| annegentle_ | bug 1078108 | 13:22 |
| uvirtbot` | Launchpad bug 1078108 in openstack-api-site "Identity API 2.0 guide won't build on 1.5.0 or 1.5.1 version of Clouddoc tools maven plugin" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078108 | 13:22 |
| annegentle_ | Google Analytics tracks visitors, visits, that sort of thing | 13:22 |
| annegentle_ | it's helpful for knowing how readers navigate all the sites | 13:23 |
| annegentle_ | The Foundation staff requested the change for better usability, etc. | 13:23 |
| Daisy | tracking even within DocBook pages? | 13:23 |
| annegentle_ | I can send another brief summary to the mailing list of what we see in our web analytis. | 13:23 |
| fifieldt | that would be cool | 13:23 |
| annegentle_ | #action Anne to send summary report of Google Analytics info to openstack-doc mailing list | 13:24 |
| Daisy | thanks. | 13:24 |
| annegentle_ | Daisy: yep the pom.xml contains the GA code and then embeds it in each page | 13:24 |
| Daisy | that's great! | 13:24 |
| annegentle_ | ok so that's the reasoning for 1.5.1 | 13:25 |
| annegentle_ | now the actually exciting one is 1.6.0 | 13:25 |
| annegentle_ | we won't have all these pesky PDF links break any more | 13:25 |
| fifieldt | :O | 13:26 |
| annegentle_ | it contains fixes for the manual file naming for PDFs | 13:26 |
| annegentle_ | but, it means all the pom.xmls must change when using 1.6.0 | 13:26 |
| annegentle_ | #link https://github.com/rackspace/clouddocs-maven-plugin | 13:26 |
| fifieldt | pom.xmls are easy enough to change ... I think | 13:26 |
| annegentle_ | that has the release notes for what's coming in 1.6.0 | 13:26 |
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| annegentle_ | Another feature we may want to think about is the "Automatically handle images" | 13:27 |
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| annegentle_ | you know how you have to insert two image refs for the PDF and HTML output? This will handle that more gracefully --- and tell you if you're missing images. | 13:27 |
| fifieldt | Generate pdf file names in the format basename-20121110.pdf where basename is the base pdf name and 20121110 is the taken from /*/info/pubdate in the document. | 13:27 |
| fifieldt | How does that work for the docs which are split using os= ? | 13:27 |
| annegentle_ | Also in 1.6.0 we get the fix for the book titles for our install guides built conditioinally | 13:28 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: ah good question. | 13:28 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: we also don't want that style of naming for Google Analytics purposes for tracking over longer periods like releases | 13:28 |
| annegentle_ | #action Anne to investigate PDF file naming | 13:28 |
| annegentle_ | Another bit of news for Doc tools is that their repo is moving to openstack-ci/clouddocs-maven-plugin | 13:29 |
| annegentle_ | This move enables more contributors to the plugin | 13:29 |
| fifieldt | brilliant | 13:29 |
| annegentle_ | any questions on the maven plugin? | 13:30 |
| annegentle_ | David Cramer is the lead dev on it and couldn't be here this morning but says hello | 13:30 |
| annegentle_ | #topic Gaps in Folsom doc - prioritizing | 13:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gaps in Folsom doc - prioritizing" | 13:30 | |
| annegentle_ | Added that for you koolhead17 | 13:30 |
| fifieldt | Quantum, Cinder | 13:30 |
| annegentle_ | We did get a nice boost for Cinder from jgriffith which is why I went ahead and cut the folsom branch | 13:31 |
| annegentle_ | but we need cleanup on the install guide particularly if we are going to use Cinder as default? | 13:31 |
| fifieldt | I think we still need to provide both nova-volume and cinder in Folsom doc | 13:31 |
| fifieldt | to facilitate "transition" | 13:31 |
| fifieldt | despite it being such similar code | 13:32 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, john did modified some cider doc which requers more clarification | 13:32 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: I think that's true | 13:32 |
| koolhead17 | i have assiged the bug to him | 13:32 |
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| koolhead17 | i would say priority is to get the arch corrected | 13:32 |
| annegentle_ | koolhead17: bug number please? | 13:32 |
| koolhead17 | the bugs which are tagged with quantum needs special attention | 13:32 |
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| annegentle_ | I'd also like to address the difference people are noting between the "ubuntu all in one" Appendix and the rest of the guide | 13:33 |
| annegentle_ | see bug 1078084 | 13:33 |
| uvirtbot` | Launchpad bug 1078084 in openstack-manuals "Install guide bugs: paste ini doesnt need mods, confusion between appendix nova.conf and sample nova.conf" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1078084 | 13:33 |
| fifieldt | https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bugs?field.tag=quantum | 13:33 |
| fifieldt | eg | 13:33 |
| fifieldt | https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1064643 | 13:33 |
| uvirtbot` | Launchpad bug 1064643 in openstack-manuals "add example of basic "flat" scenario for quantum" [Medium,Triaged] | 13:33 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: yep that's the one | 13:34 |
| fifieldt | Deploying quantum is not "simple" right now | 13:34 |
| annegentle_ | Dan Wendlandt said he'd address last week | 13:34 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1078057 | 13:34 |
| uvirtbot` | Launchpad bug 1078057 in openstack-manuals "OpenStack Install and Deploy Manual - Ubuntu: cinder flag setting is not clear" [Medium,Confirmed] | 13:34 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: koolhead17 and razique say floating ups don't work | 13:34 |
| fifieldt | I think there needs to be a nice big warning about it not supporting multihost flatDHCP HA | 13:34 |
| fifieldt | I'm not surprised | 13:34 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: oh good point | 13:34 |
| koolhead17 | itarchitectkev, around? | 13:34 |
| itarchitectkev | o/ | 13:34 |
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| Razique | itarchitectkev : I think I finally figured it out | 13:35 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, we need Dan or someone from Quantum team to regularly look at those bugs | 13:35 |
| annegentle_ | one thing I wondered is if the "Demo Setup" section is 1) chunked too much (as in, people don't click NEXT> and 2) placed so far down in the guide as to be invisible? | 13:35 |
| Razique | floating don't work, since the L3 package is broken in the official repost | 13:35 |
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| koolhead17 | i see most of the recent bugs coming for quantum | 13:35 |
| annegentle_ | koolhead17: I was supposed to send him a list of bugs, I'll take an action to do that today | 13:35 |
| koolhead17 | Daviey, ^^^ | 13:35 |
| annegentle_ | #action Anne to send Dan Wendlandt a list of highest priority Quantum doc bugs | 13:35 |
| annegentle_ | Razique: Good detective work man! | 13:35 |
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| koolhead17 | annegentle_, and see if we can poke kpepple for a new arch diagram to go ahead with folsom doc :) | 13:36 |
| koolhead17 | :) | 13:36 |
| fifieldt | I think he did one, didn't hi? | 13:36 |
| fifieldt | he* | 13:36 |
| annegentle_ | koolhead17: he did update it for folsom, but what's missing? | 13:36 |
| fifieldt | #link http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-compute/admin/content/logical-architecture.html | 13:37 |
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| koolhead17 | annegentle_, http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-compute/install/apt/content/externals.html#d6e476 | 13:37 |
| annegentle_ | koolhead17: ah those are from Lorin if my memory serves | 13:38 |
| koolhead17 | Razique, are you talking about the bug related to iptables | 13:38 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, assign it to him then :D | 13:38 |
| annegentle_ | koolhead17: log a bug please | 13:38 |
| Razique | koolhead17 : yah the one preventing floating ips from working | 13:38 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, i have logged that bug already | 13:39 |
| annegentle_ | Any other concerns with Folsom docs? | 13:39 |
| itarchitectkev | Can I butt in with a "we need a getting started guide" - the docs are great, but you need to know where to look for the info, rather than the info being obvious. | 13:39 |
| koolhead17 | Razique, it will b fixed in few days | 13:39 |
| itarchitectkev | I know there are some - but the documentation on quantum is immense | 13:39 |
| annegentle_ | itarchitectkev: sure butt in! | 13:39 |
| koolhead17 | itarchitectkev, http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-compute/install/apt/content/ap_installingfolsomubuntuprecise.html | 13:39 |
| koolhead17 | there u go :P | 13:39 |
| annegentle_ | itarchitectkev: yeah that "Demo Setup" section was supposed to be the "get started" but it causes some frustration | 13:39 |
| koolhead17 | me and Razique are working to get it in place :D | 13:39 |
| annegentle_ | #link http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-network/admin/content/app_demo.html | 13:40 |
| itarchitectkev | I tend to gravitate to a blog post and I'd love to get a PDF on it from docs.openstack.org instead | 13:40 |
| annegentle_ | itarchitectkev: which blog post is good for "getting started?" | 13:40 |
| itarchitectkev | EmilienM is the go to it seems | 13:40 |
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| annegentle_ | itarchitectkev: I agree we need a better Getting Started location - so you don't like http://www.openstack.org/software/start/ ? | 13:41 |
| itarchitectkev | But needs some direction on writing for a user | 13:41 |
| itarchitectkev | rather than that very specific set up | 13:41 |
| itarchitectkev | I would love to go there for the guides :) | 13:41 |
| annegentle_ | itarchitectkev: ah yes. I would prefer that people contribute to the docs rather than write one-offs but not sure how to handle | 13:41 |
| itarchitectkev | and I'll gladly help | 13:41 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, +1 :D | 13:41 |
| fifieldt | yay, peeps | 13:42 |
| annegentle_ | #link https://github.com/EmilienM/doc-openstack | 13:42 |
| annegentle_ | itarchitectkev: that the one? | 13:42 |
| itarchitectkev | yeah | 13:42 |
| koolhead17 | itarchitectkev, i liked skible doc`s quantum archs diagram though :) | 13:42 |
| annegentle_ | itarchitectkev: how about linking to it from http://www.openstack.org/software/start/ ? | 13:42 |
| itarchitectkev | diagrams are good | 13:42 |
| itarchitectkev | annegentle_, can do for now | 13:42 |
| annegentle_ | #action Anne to link to EmilienM's getting started doc from http://www.openstack.org/software/start/ | 13:43 |
| fifieldt | NB: that doc is for essex | 13:43 |
| itarchitectkev | You know what I'd like? Even though the *cough* CloudStack Getting Started PDF is a gazillion pages long - we can do that, right? | 13:43 |
| annegentle_ | itarchitectkev: link? | 13:43 |
| fifieldt | So, I think we can help here if we write that book chapter we were thinking about in the 'planning the cluster' thing? | 13:43 |
| fifieldt | the one that Joe sugggested | 13:44 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: ah right | 13:44 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, we have a getting started here too http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-compute/install/apt/content/ap_installingfolsomubuntuprecise.html | 13:44 |
| annegentle_ | #link https://github.com/EmilienM/openstack-folsom-guide | 13:44 |
| koolhead17 | it works well without quantum though :P | 13:44 |
| * itarchitectkev goes to look but they've moved their site since the new release | 13:44 | |
| annegentle_ | itarchitectkev: this? http://docs.cloudstack.org/CloudStack_Documentation | 13:45 |
| fifieldt | ooh, they have Japanese | 13:46 |
| annegentle_ | koolhead17: I think that the ap_installingfolsomubuntuprecise.html serves a single purpose, want to see what itarchitectkev is talking about with a "getting started" | 13:46 |
| koolhead17 | well we just want to have a getting started somewhere | 13:46 |
| koolhead17 | :) | 13:46 |
| itarchitectkev | #link http://download.cloud.com/releases/3.0.0/CloudStack3.0.0-3.0.2QuickInstallGuide.pdf | 13:46 |
| fifieldt | http://docs.cloudstack.org/Leap_Second_issues_on_CloudStack_Management_Servers_%28RHEL%29_and_KVM_hosts <-- I find this amusing :s | 13:46 |
| annegentle_ | itarchitectkev: so I think our "Install and Deploy Guide" is meant to be that, but isn't for some reason. | 13:47 |
| fifieldt | Just needs some Tough Love, IMO | 13:47 |
| annegentle_ | itarchitectkev: or for multiple reasons | 13:47 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: yeah maybe it needs to be simplified? | 13:47 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, yeah | 13:48 |
| itarchitectkev | annegentle_, +1 | 13:48 |
| itarchitectkev | I think that's right | 13:48 |
| annegentle_ | Actually can we switch to open discussion so we can talk about the SLES OpenSuse addition to that guide? | 13:48 |
| koolhead17 | one place click button | 13:48 |
| koolhead17 | and bang ur done | 13:48 |
| koolhead17 | :) | 13:48 |
| fifieldt | fine with me | 13:48 |
| annegentle_ | #topic SLES and OpenSuse addition to the Install guide | 13:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SLES and OpenSuse addition to the Install guide" | 13:48 | |
| fifieldt | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15721/ | 13:48 |
| fifieldt | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15888/ | 13:48 |
| annegentle_ | looking at the outline for the Cloud Stack Basic Install Guide, it's really what we have… just needs revisions | 13:48 |
| fifieldt | ^ the SUSE patches | 13:48 |
| uvirtbot` | fifieldt: Error: "the" is not a valid command. | 13:48 |
| annegentle_ | ah thanks Tom | 13:49 |
| fifieldt | So, actually, B1 Systems are kinda experts on SUSE deployments | 13:49 |
| annegentle_ | so I had another idea - what if we have two install guides, one for Object Storage + Identity, one for Identity + Compute + Image + Volumes? | 13:49 |
| annegentle_ | which still doesn't give us a "Basic Install Guide" sadly. | 13:49 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: yeah I really want to get the content in | 13:50 |
| fifieldt | but glance stores images ... where? ;) | 13:50 |
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| annegentle_ | fifieldt: ah there's the rub | 13:50 |
| fifieldt | So, a bit of reality for a second | 13:50 |
| annegentle_ | what about putting the SUSE stuff in both manuals? | 13:50 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: sure | 13:50 |
| fifieldt | The smallest swift cluster that is reasonable to deploy | 13:50 |
| fifieldt | is 6 nodes | 13:51 |
| fifieldt | (5 storage + 1 proxy) | 13:51 |
| fifieldt | Even this is sometimes too large for an "OpenStack in the small" deployment | 13:51 |
| fifieldt | So, perhaps it comes down to scale | 13:51 |
| koolhead17 | fifieldt, 6 nodes is too much :P | 13:51 |
| fifieldt | If you're at the stage where 6 nodes is too much, you don't deploy swift | 13:52 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: yes | 13:52 |
| fifieldt | but given our #1 design tenet is scalability | 13:52 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: you speak truth :) | 13:52 |
| fifieldt | we should provide some option for storing images that sucks less than normal | 13:52 |
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| annegentle_ | fifieldt: as in document how to store images not-in-swift? | 13:52 |
| fifieldt | well, | 13:53 |
| fifieldt | there are a number of caching options here that we currently don't deploy | 13:53 |
| fifieldt | such as cache in glance, cache in nova | 13:53 |
| fifieldt | and these mitigate the need for large amounts of high performance storage for images in some cases | 13:53 |
| fifieldt | (the options are available, but there is not overview as such) | 13:53 |
| fifieldt | s/available/documented | 13:53 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: agreed | 13:53 |
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| fifieldt | apologies for going away from the SUSE discussion :) | 13:53 |
| fifieldt | just noting | 13:54 |
| annegentle_ | no problem | 13:54 |
| annegentle_ | my hope with the install/deploy guide was to have real deployments documented | 13:54 |
| fifieldt | aye | 13:54 |
| koolhead17 | fifieldt, so are we going to have a 6 node swift doc in place :) | 13:54 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: because people shouldn't have to figure this out by word-of-mouth | 13:54 |
| fifieldt | indeed | 13:54 |
| koolhead17 | fifieldt, sounds good to me. | 13:54 |
| koolhead17 | :) | 13:54 |
| fifieldt | so, this is why I really like the idea of a 'designing your OpenStack' thing | 13:54 |
| annegentle_ | koolhead17: the install/deploy guide does say you'd need that many nodes for a real deploy (or does it?) | 13:54 |
| fifieldt | to guide people through the choices they can make | 13:54 |
| fifieldt | swift or no swift | 13:55 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, i doubt it does | 13:55 |
| fifieldt | volumes or no volumes | 13:55 |
| fifieldt | cinder or nova-network | 13:55 |
| fifieldt | but to get to this stage is a serious amount of effort :)_ | 13:55 |
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| fifieldt | hence I hope GSOC gets up! | 13:55 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: maybe this is a page-long discussion (the decision making) | 13:55 |
| koolhead17 | fifieldt, annegentle_ then lets have a one guide on as itarchitectkev said getting started bare minimum config | 13:55 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: yes and I was also going to say, in the operators manual | 13:55 |
| koolhead17 | once we have that lets extend our existing guide with multinode | 13:55 |
| koolhead17 | :) | 13:55 |
| itarchitectkev | koolhead17 +1: this should be an agreed bare minimum that has choices dictated to the user | 13:55 |
| annegentle_ | koolhead17: there are already those, we just need bug fixing on them right? | 13:56 |
| itarchitectkev | its not an OpenStack manual - its about getting lift-off without referring to google | 13:56 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, kind of yes. But not as descriptive as fifieldt mentioned :) | 13:56 |
| annegentle_ | (and you'll tell me if I'm deluded into thinking we can get there with what we have right?) | 13:56 |
| koolhead17 | we can even add doc with multiple scheduler implementation | 13:56 |
| fifieldt | With a "bare minimum" Openstack doc in place, we still need to provide enough docs to support the people who install eg Swift Only, Glance Only | 13:56 |
| koolhead17 | and multiple compute node 4 same | 13:56 |
| annegentle_ | itarchitectkev: so we have applied as a small group of deployers to write an operators manual with a Google Doc Summit. | 13:57 |
| annegentle_ | but haven't heard if we're accepted | 13:57 |
| itarchitectkev | who do I need to point the gun at? | 13:57 |
| itarchitectkev | :) | 13:57 |
| * fifieldt dodges | 13:57 | |
| annegentle_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/EssexOperationsGuide | 13:57 |
| annegentle_ | basically to write a book like that outline in a week :) | 13:57 |
| itarchitectkev | easy | 13:58 |
| itarchitectkev | Get 1,000 monkeys, with typewriters and hope that they don't come up with some Shakespeare this time | 13:58 |
| fifieldt | I prefer Chaucer | 13:58 |
| koolhead17 | itarchitectkev, :P | 13:58 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle_, GSOC ^^ | 13:59 |
| annegentle_ | the group is fifieldt (U of Melbourne), Everett Towes (Cybera then Rackspace), Joe Topjian (Cyberra), and Jon Proulx (Mass. Institute of Tech.) | 13:59 |
| itarchitectkev | when do you know? | 14:00 |
| annegentle_ | #link https://sites.google.com/site/docsprintsummitv2/ | 14:00 |
| annegentle_ | itarchitectkev: I've been bugging them for the last 2 weeks :) | 14:00 |
| annegentle_ | I know the organizers | 14:00 |
| annegentle_ | ok what else? | 14:00 |
| fifieldt | SUE? | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | SUSE? | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | You think we can work with them to make it a complete standalone suse version? | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | or not possible? or it will take too long and you want it out asap? | 14:01 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: seems like that's the only "real" pattern we have | 14:01 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: I'm not in a hurry -- and I still have a concern about it -- what about Keystone for Identity? | 14:02 |
| fifieldt | indeed | 14:02 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: do we require that any standalone version use Keystone? | 14:02 |
| fifieldt | do they have packages yet? | 14:02 |
| * fifieldt notes 1 hour has passed, and apologies for stringing the conversation along | 14:02 | |
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| koolhead17 | fifieldt, :) | 14:03 |
| annegentle_ | you know I'm loathe to reject a doc addition | 14:03 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: no worries | 14:03 |
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| annegentle_ | fifieldt: if they don't have Identity package, does it matter (esp. for swift?) | 14:04 |
| fifieldt | for swift, not at all | 14:04 |
| annegentle_ | it's kind of tied up in the "what is really openstack?" discussion I suppose | 14:04 |
| fifieldt | hmm, I'm more pragmatic | 14:04 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: we could let them have a standalone guide and not conditionalize it at all | 14:04 |
| fifieldt | the doc contribution was in the install guide which is combined | 14:04 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: yeah I'd rather get more info out in the docs ecosystem | 14:04 |
| fifieldt | whereas we do have a swift-only guide | 14:04 |
| fifieldt | which it could be included in right now . . . | 14:04 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: yeah that's another idea --- new install section in the swift-only guide | 14:05 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: I like it | 14:05 |
| fifieldt | though I have a feeling they have more to contribute | 14:05 |
| fifieldt | and would come on board if we asked :) | 14:05 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: yeah | 14:05 |
| fifieldt | perhaps we could organise a meeting with the B1 guys? Or maybe it only needs an email? | 14:05 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: I see one of their guys at Austin OpenStack meet ups and they really want to help | 14:05 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: just to ensure I know the proposal -- | 14:06 |
| annegentle_ | let me repeat it | 14:06 |
| annegentle_ | 1. Note in the Install/deploy guide that packages for SLES OpenSuse are available | 14:06 |
| annegentle_ | 2. Move the info from https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15721/ to the Object Storage admin manual | 14:06 |
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| annegentle_ | 3. Ask about Identity | 14:07 |
| annegentle_ | sound right? | 14:07 |
| fifieldt | das is gut | 14:07 |
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| annegentle_ | fifieldt: ok, I'll start with an email | 14:08 |
| annegentle_ | #action Anne to send email to Christian Berendt with proposal for moving forward with SLES OpenSuse install info | 14:08 |
| annegentle_ | sweet! | 14:08 |
| annegentle_ | I like the new meeting time | 14:08 |
| annegentle_ | ok, thanks for sticking it out | 14:08 |
| annegentle_ | #endmeeting | 14:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 14:08 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 13 14:08:35 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:08 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/doc_web/2012/doc_web.2012-11-13-13.06.html | 14:08 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/doc_web/2012/doc_web.2012-11-13-13.06.txt | 14:08 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/doc_web/2012/doc_web.2012-11-13-13.06.log.html | 14:08 |
| fifieldt | win | 14:08 |
| koolhead17 | +1 | 14:08 |
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| fifieldt | Daisy was very quiet ;) | 14:09 |
| fifieldt | hope her connection worked! | 14:10 |
| annegentle_ | yeah! | 14:10 |
| annegentle_ | She's also working on the translation and CI work, hurrah. | 14:10 |
| annegentle_ | fifieldt: I sure hope we hear SOON about Google Doc | 14:11 |
| fifieldt | indeed | 14:11 |
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| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 15:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 13 15:59:39 2012 UTC. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:59 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 15:59 |
| primeministerp | Hi Everyone | 15:59 |
| primeministerp | going to wait a couple more minutes for some others to join | 16:00 |
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| primeministerp | ociuhandu: are you going to stand in for apilotti? | 16:02 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: yes, he's joining also but i guess he got delayed in traffic | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | ahh | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:03 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: alessandro! | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | great let's begin | 16:04 |
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| alexpilotti | hi everybody! | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | sorry for being late, just arrived! | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | so I sent out a brief agenda | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: no worries | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | ok so updates | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | let's start w/ the new bits that have been added | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | #topic cloudrive | 16:05 |
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| primeministerp | so has the clouddrive code made it through approvaL | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | did anybody have the occasion to check out the configdrive / cloudinit bits? | 16:05 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti:I know you were working on that yesterday | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: still waiting for reviewer's love :-) | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | sorry configdrive | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | not clouddrive | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | I had to split it further | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | who do we need to poke to get it to happen | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | o into smaller commits? | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | we need to ping the nova core guys | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: yep. 2 of them got approved | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | 2 are waiting | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | vishy: ping | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | and I also added documentation for the testing framework: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15930/ | 16:08 |
| alexpilotti | ociuhandu and me tested it quite well on ubuntu, finding a couple of bugs in cloudinit | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | we submitted them and those are going to be fixed | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | in the meantime we are using a patched version of cloudinit | 16:10 |
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| primeministerp_ | heh | 16:10 |
| primeministerp_ | sory about that | 16:10 |
| primeministerp_ | er sorry | 16:10 |
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| alexpilotti | cloudinit, being outside of Openstack, is not benefitting of Jenkins / OpenStack | 16:10 |
| primeministerp_ | ok | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | sorry, SmokeStack | 16:11 |
| primeministerp_ | alexpilotti: what did i miss | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | so regressions and generic errors are common | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp_: nothing special, just a rough debugging weekend ;-) | 16:11 |
| primeministerp_ | ok | 16:11 |
| primeministerp_ | i guess moving on | 16:12 |
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| alexpilotti | about cloudinit, I took a look at the Windows versions available | 16:12 |
| primeministerp_ | is there anything else to discuss re: configdrive | 16:12 |
| alexpilotti | IMO none of them are up to the task | 16:12 |
| primeministerp_ | or cloudinit? | 16:12 |
| primeministerp_ | alexpilotti: did you already cover cloudinit? | 16:12 |
| primeministerp_ | ahh thx | 16:12 |
| alexpilotti | cloudinit / configdrive? | 16:12 |
| primeministerp_ | that's what i missed | 16:12 |
| alexpilotti | so the idea is to write a new windows implementation or to port the Linux version | 16:13 |
| primeministerp_ | alexpilotti: so, suggestions? | 16:13 |
| primeministerp_ | alexpilotti: new windows implemenation? | 16:13 |
| alexpilotti | I'd like an implementation that can be easily injected in a VHD w/ dependencies | 16:13 |
| alexpilotti | so no .Net | 16:13 |
| primeministerp_ | agreed | 16:13 |
| primeministerp_ | so you want something regardless of guest platform | 16:14 |
| alexpilotti | I'd either go w a port of the Python code or a C++ version | 16:14 |
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| primeministerp_ | alexpilotti: ok | 16:14 |
| alexpilotti | cloudinit is written in quite modular and decoupled way | 16:14 |
| alexpilotti | so it could be possible to port it w/o wasting time | 16:14 |
| primeministerp_ | alexpilotti: ideally we don't waste any time | 16:15 |
| alexpilotti | on the other side, it's probably faster to come up with a C++ version | 16:15 |
| alexpilotti | the objectives are: | 16:15 |
| alexpilotti | 1) hostname config | 16:15 |
| alexpilotti | 2) user creation / password / group memmbership | 16:15 |
| alexpilotti | 3) static network injection | 16:15 |
| alexpilotti | 4) userdata scripts (powershell in this case) | 16:16 |
| primeministerp_ | which basically all means, just a harness to run powershell | 16:16 |
| primeministerp_ | ;) | 16:16 |
| alexpilotti | not really, I'd avoid powershell as a dependency as well | 16:16 |
| primeministerp_ | and use wmi to calls to create users | 16:16 |
| primeministerp_ | and such | 16:17 |
| alexpilotti | or simple "net user xxx yyy /add" invocations | 16:17 |
| primeministerp_ | at that point why not just use powershell | 16:17 |
| primeministerp_ | if you're invoking those commands | 16:17 |
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| alexpilotti | wmi is a bit of a PITA when it's about usr management | 16:18 |
| alexpilotti | no, just a plain shell | 16:18 |
| alexpilotti | think about Windows 2003 guests | 16:18 |
| primeministerp_ | ahh | 16:18 |
| primeministerp_ | gotcha | 16:18 |
| alexpilotti | I want to be sure that every possible Windows workload is supported | 16:18 |
| primeministerp_ | i forget about those | 16:18 |
| primeministerp_ | ok | 16:18 |
| primeministerp_ | fair enough | 16:18 |
| alexpilotti | w/o forcing the installation of any additional component | 16:19 |
| primeministerp_ | native os only | 16:19 |
| primeministerp_ | I agree | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | that's the idea | 16:19 |
| primeministerp_ | perfect then | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | Python is a good compromise, as we can do a simple xcopy deployment | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | so I'm looking at those two options. | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | any ideas? | 16:19 |
| primeministerp_ | ok | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | :-) | 16:19 |
| primeministerp_ | python sounds good to me | 16:20 |
| pnavarro | JAVA ! no, I'm joking... | 16:20 |
| primeministerp_ | pnavarro: any input? | 16:20 |
| primeministerp_ | haha | 16:20 |
| primeministerp_ | o man | 16:20 |
| primeministerp_ | too funny | 16:20 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: lol | 16:20 |
| pnavarro | nothing to add.. | 16:21 |
| primeministerp_ | alexpilotti: pnavarro: so the two of you discussed quantum bits last week. | 16:21 |
| primeministerp_ | #topic quantum | 16:21 |
| primeministerp_ | any positive outcome? | 16:21 |
| primeministerp_ | pnavarro: I know you are extremely busy | 16:21 |
| alexpilotti | on our we got blocked by the cloudinit bugs / review | 16:21 |
| primeministerp_ | alexpilotti: moving ahead as planned? | 16:21 |
| primeministerp_ | alexpilotti: understood | 16:22 |
| primeministerp_ | alexpilotti: more work than expected | 16:22 |
| alexpilotti | yeah, we wasted a few days but things are moving as fast as usual ;-) | 16:22 |
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| primeministerp_ | are we still on timeline for G1 or offically looking at G2 | 16:22 |
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| pnavarro | I've started a basic implementation from the basis of the linux bridge one | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | G2 at this point, there's no need IMO in spending night coding | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: cool! | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: please don't | 16:23 |
| pnavarro | but, as I have the volume bits to commit... | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: save that for the week before "G" | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: o please get those in asap | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: +1 | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: I wasn't aware that they didn't get in yet | 16:24 |
| pnavarro | they are ready for commit, just live migration testing are failing because I have no the environment ready | 16:24 |
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| alexpilotti | pnavarro primeministerp: should we give the plugin a different name and kkep them both? | 16:24 |
| alexpilotti | like appending a "V2" at the end? | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: that works for me for backward compat | 16:25 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: yep, that was the idea | 16:25 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro? | 16:25 |
| pnavarro | what to you mean by V2? | 16:25 |
| alexpilotti | plugin version 2 | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: bascially have version 1 and version 2 | 16:25 |
| alexpilotti | so if the class name is | 16:26 |
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| alexpilotti | I wanted to paste the real class name, but my VM is stuck :-D | 16:27 |
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| primeministerp | hehe | 16:27 |
| pnavarro | volumeutils ? | 16:27 |
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| primeministerp | pnavarro: in a nutshell having multiple versions of the driver | 16:28 |
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| primeministerp | pnavarro: going forward ... i.e. win9 | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: there is no wmiv1 namespace | 16:28 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: whatever, I'll find it | 16:28 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: the idea is to give the user a choice, or even better automatically choose the version based on the OS | 16:28 |
| alexpilotti | I'd go with the second | 16:29 |
| alexpilotti | you just need to add a simple factory | 16:29 |
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| pnavarro | mmm ok, I thought the no-WMI version should be deprecated | 16:29 |
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| alexpilotti | pnavarro: in driver.py | 16:30 |
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| alexpilotti | when you do: self._volumeops = volumeops.VolumeOps() | 16:30 |
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| alexpilotti | you replace that with afactory method that goes like: | 16:30 |
| alexpilotti | if os < 2012: | 16:30 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: return volumeops.VolumeOps() | 16:30 |
| alexpilotti | else: | 16:30 |
| alexpilotti | return volumeops.VolumeOpsV2() | 16:31 |
| pnavarro | ok, I got it | 16:31 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: what do u think? | 16:31 |
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| pnavarro | it's ok for me | 16:32 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: great tx! we are going to do the same also the vmops and the rest | 16:32 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:32 |
| primeministerp | good, | 16:32 |
| alexpilotti | for example VHDX require the WMI api V2 | 16:33 |
| primeministerp | no pnavarro get that code in | 16:33 |
| primeministerp | er so | 16:33 |
| alexpilotti | so we'll have to rewrite spawn and all the rest | 16:33 |
| primeministerp | ;) | 16:33 |
| pnavarro | ok | 16:33 |
| primeministerp | esp if we're going to work on anything going fwd | 16:33 |
| primeministerp | ;) | 16:33 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:33 |
| primeministerp | anything on that? | 16:34 |
| pnavarro | I've realised that tests stubs are duplicated | 16:34 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: which ones? | 16:34 |
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| pnavarro | you know, the stubs changed depending on they are launched from /nova/tests or /nova | 16:35 |
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| alexpilotti | ?? | 16:35 |
| pnavarro | so they fully qualified name of the stub changes | 16:35 |
| alexpilotti | I got it | 16:36 |
| alexpilotti | d'oh | 16:36 |
| pnavarro | https://github.com/openstack/nova/tree/master/nova/tests/hyperv/stubs | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:37 |
| primeministerp | #topic ci update | 16:37 |
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| pnavarro | so, we should add this convention in some dev doc | 16:37 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: perfect timing i guess | 16:38 |
| alexpilotti | pnavarro: we should fix that! | 16:38 |
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| pnavarro | alexpilotti: +1000 ! | 16:38 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: re: devdoc and the mocs | 16:38 |
| primeministerp | ok ci stuff | 16:38 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: and ociuhandu are coming to cambridge the week of dec 2 | 16:38 |
| primeministerp | we'll be bringing up the smokestack/devstack tests and lighting up the ci infrastructure | 16:39 |
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| alexpilotti | pnavarro: also, they are asking to change the format from pickle to json | 16:39 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: I'll work on giving you access to the infrasture at that time | 16:39 |
| pnavarro | that'd be great ! | 16:40 |
| primeministerp | mordred: did you want to come up? | 16:40 |
| alexpilotti | as a general rule, let's execute them in nova\tests for the moment | 16:40 |
| pnavarro | alexpilotti: ok ! | 16:40 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: does that require much work? moving to json | 16:41 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: just changing the serialization layer | 16:41 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: from the pickle files | 16:41 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: 2 lines if the python code works well | 16:42 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: and it would align with the project better | 16:42 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: as they are already using a lot of json | 16:42 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: hence the request i'm sure | 16:42 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: a lot of swearing if it happens like with Python 2.6 | 16:42 |
| mordred | primeministerp: maybe - I've got to sort out a different work thing today before I can know | 16:42 |
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| pnavarro | alexpilotti: thierry carrez mentioned the other day in Paris that the TComittee started discusions to forget Python 2.6 | 16:43 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: and alos if would be asy to read them and inject manually code | 16:43 |
| primeministerp | mordred: we'll if you're interested let me know | 16:43 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: yes | 16:43 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: no gz | 16:43 |
| alexpilotti | I'd like to get rid of the gzs | 16:43 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: i'm sure every one else would too | 16:44 |
| primeministerp | ;) | 16:44 |
| primeministerp | it's the source of a lot of questions | 16:44 |
| alexpilotti | if the json files don't bloath as much as the picled ones! :-) | 16:44 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: we need to have a discussion after this if possible | 16:45 |
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| primeministerp | does anyone have anything else to add? | 16:45 |
| alexpilotti | sure | 16:45 |
| alexpilotti | let me say thanks to sagar_nikam! | 16:45 |
| primeministerp | o yes | 16:45 |
| alexpilotti | he's doing a great testing work! | 16:45 |
| primeministerp | sagar_nikam: thanks for your help w/ testing | 16:45 |
| sagar_nikam | i have started the tests for live migration | 16:46 |
| primeministerp | sagar_nikam: you're doing a great job | 16:46 |
| primeministerp | sagar_nikam: feel free to file bugs | 16:46 |
| sagar_nikam | thanks all | 16:46 |
| primeministerp | sagar_nikam: also thanks for keeping me in the loop | 16:46 |
| alexpilotti | and talking about testing, we need to fix glance_client. Volunteers? ;-) | 16:46 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: it's broken? | 16:46 |
| ttx | pnavarro: actually the discussion should start at today's meeting. | 16:46 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: we are going to open a page to file bugs for the installer | 16:46 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: good | 16:47 |
| pnavarro | ttx: thanks for the note ! | 16:47 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: badly. It doesn't work on Hyper-V | 16:47 |
| primeministerp | ttx: which one? | 16:47 |
| alexpilotti | jaypipes: hi! | 16:47 |
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| ttx | the py2.6 one | 16:47 |
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| primeministerp | ahh | 16:47 |
| alexpilotti | jaypipes: we have some issues with glance_client :-) | 16:47 |
| pnavarro | guys, I have to go ! | 16:48 |
| pnavarro | bye ! | 16:49 |
| primeministerp | bye pedro | 16:49 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: email him? | 16:50 |
| primeministerp | ok i"m going to call it | 16:50 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: let's chat now if that's ok | 16:50 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 16:50 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 13 16:50:23 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2012/hyper_v.2012-11-13-15.59.html | 16:50 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2012/hyper_v.2012-11-13-15.59.txt | 16:50 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2012/hyper_v.2012-11-13-15.59.log.html | 16:50 |
| primeministerp | thanks again everyone | 16:50 |
| alexpilotti | bye pnavarro! | 16:50 |
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| ociuhandu | bye pnavarro | 16:51 |
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| ayoung | KEYSTONE! | 18:00 |
| dolphm | ahh | 18:00 |
| ayoung | \O\ | 18:00 |
| heckj | o/ | 18:00 |
| heckj | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 13 18:00:21 2012 UTC. The chair is heckj. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| ayoung | /O/ | 18:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| heckj | Ola y'all | 18:00 |
| dolphm | hola | 18:00 |
| dwchadwick | hello | 18:00 |
| heckj | Did I catch it correctly that we have a David Chadwick lurking here today? | 18:00 |
| heckj | Yeah!!!! | 18:00 |
| heckj | #link Agenda: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:00 |
| ayoung | gyee, | 18:00 |
| gyee | yo | 18:00 |
| dwchadwick | for the first time, yes | 18:01 |
| dolphm | dwchadwick: welcome! | 18:01 |
| Kristy | hello | 18:01 |
| heckj | dwchadwick: glad you could make it | 18:01 |
| heckj | Kristy: awesome! Welcome! | 18:01 |
| dwchadwick | the full monty today | 18:01 |
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| heckj | #topic Burning/Exploding/Supernova issues? | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Burning/Exploding/Supernova issues?" | 18:02 | |
| heckj | So, let's get rolling - anything broken or severely on fire that needs immediate attention? | 18:02 |
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| * dolphm readies a fire extenguisher | 18:02 | |
| * dolphm and a crowbar | 18:02 | |
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| heckj | I like the sound of that silence | 18:03 |
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| heckj | #topic keystoneclient - version, releasin', etc | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "keystoneclient - version, releasin', etc" | 18:04 | |
| ayoung | All quiet on the Western front | 18:04 |
| heckj | So we've *just* landed the auth_token bits into keystoneclient with henrynash' work | 18:04 |
| heckj | The current released version of keystoneclient is 0.1.3 | 18:04 |
| heckj | We also dropped in the AccessInfo base pieces, to start allowing authorization to be cached, etc. | 18:05 |
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| heckj | It's time for a new release there, and a new number | 18:05 |
| dolphm | 0.1.3 is ~3 months old! | 18:05 |
| heckj | Any qualms with 0.2.0? I'm open to suggestions here | 18:05 |
| gyee | keyring after that? | 18:05 |
| dolphm | heckj: +1 | 18:06 |
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| ayoung | sounds good | 18:06 |
| heckj | gyee: sure - or if we can wrap it up in the next day or so, we can get it in with | 18:06 |
| ayoung | keysring in 2 would be a good feature | 18:06 |
| gyee | k | 18:06 |
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| dolphm | cool | 18:06 |
| heckj | ayoung: agreed, and it's close | 18:06 |
| henrynash | oops. sorry, was sitting openstack-dev | 18:07 |
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| heckj | I'll plan on cutting a release of the keystoneclient end of this week (Thursday evening, Fri morning) with whatever we have in there now | 18:07 |
| ayoung | henrynash, we were just suggesting upping the version number in client, due to your recent work landing there. we are going to get the keysringh stuff in as well and go 2.0 | 18:07 |
| ayoung | henrynash, do you have any changes outstanding to get into client before 2.0? | 18:07 |
| heckj | (also note that keystoneclient has initial V3 api support in there too) | 18:07 |
| henrynash | yes, sounds like a good idea | 18:07 |
| dolphm | heckj: keystoneclient vs openstack-manuals -- when can a new version be documented there? | 18:08 |
| henrynash | no, client, I think, is done….. | 18:08 |
| * gyee is going to pull an all nighter on keyring after we agree on the interface | 18:08 | |
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| ayoung | henrynash, did you get all of the cms changes that , for example ,vishy posted late last week? | 18:08 |
| henrynash | (side question: just checking we don't need to move ec2, swift middleware to client?) | 18:08 |
| henrynash | ayoung: yes | 18:08 |
| annegentle_ | dolphm: we have a stable/folsom branch cut for openstack-manuals now | 18:08 |
| heckj | dolphm: good question - I believe after we release it, we should help get those docs updated | 18:08 |
| dolphm | heckj: already documented in openstack manuals master: --os-token / --os-endpoint; pending docs: keyring / auth_token / bootstrap | 18:09 |
| heckj | dolphm: then yeah - just after release | 18:09 |
| heckj | ayoung: what's the state of the signing code? When are you planning on getting that into common or keystoneclient? | 18:09 |
| heckj | (or did all that we need come in with henrynash's changes?) | 18:10 |
| ayoung | heckj, good question. I haven't started on that yet. the cms piece should be there, but nothing uses it | 18:10 |
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| ayoung | I've been in SQL land | 18:11 |
| heckj | ayoung: Ok - so maybe a point release after 0.2.0 or something to add in that functionality, assuming it won't break any existing methods | 18:11 |
| henrynash_ | (sorry, lost connection for sec) | 18:11 |
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| heckj | #topic V3 Keystone API | 18:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "V3 Keystone API" | 18:11 | |
| ayoung | heckj, should not break anything. It will just be additional functionality as far as I can see for now | 18:11 |
| heckj | ayoung: cool | 18:12 |
| heckj | V3 API pieces are still landing policies is pending review | 18:12 |
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| heckj | dolphm: saw a note about skipped tests in there that I think can be removed and those tests run on the last review | 18:12 |
| dwchadwick | what is the planned date for v3 api release | 18:12 |
| ayoung | heckj, BTW, we are going to start deprecating KVS, to start with not including it in the policy | 18:12 |
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| ayoung | We can always get KVS like behavior using the SQL backends and SQLite in-memory | 18:13 |
| dolphm | heckj: on your question regarding test_policy_crud in test_keystoneclient ... that was actually written against the client-side policy implementation when policies was implemented on v2... so i'm thinking create a whole new test_keystoneclient_v3 suite that runs against keystoneclient.v3? | 18:13 |
| gyee | when can I start on the stop-token-in-uris bp? | 18:13 |
| heckj | dwchadwick: initial "tech preview" as soon as we can get all the changes merged in | 18:13 |
| heckj | dolphm: setting up the new tests sounds good | 18:14 |
| dolphm | heckj: so remove for now, setup new test suite asap? | 18:14 |
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| heckj | dolphm: sounds good. Need help putting this into place? (can it be parallelized at all?) | 18:15 |
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| dolphm | gyee: are you happy with the identity api v3 spec for auth? (everything on /v3/tokens) | 18:15 |
| dolphm | heckj: gyee's help implementing /tokens stuff would be a pre-req for a true v3 test suite | 18:16 |
| gyee | dolphm, we would like to make more changes, like service/endpoint scoping | 18:16 |
| dolphm | gyee: propose asap? | 18:16 |
| heckj | dolphm: based on the emails recently, I think we might need to tweak up tokens to allow user-scoped (called "unscoped" previously) tokens as well as tenant-scoped | 18:16 |
| gyee | but I am not sure about the timing | 18:16 |
| dolphm | heckj: #todo catch up on mailing list :) | 18:16 |
| heckj | gyee: your additional scope restriction to endpoints would be great to land in there at the same time | 18:16 |
| gyee | we have a bp on service/endpoint scoping and service role delegation | 18:17 |
| gyee | not sure if everyone have a chance to read up on it yet | 18:17 |
| ayoung | gyee, yep. its on the agenda | 18:17 |
| ayoung | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/service-isolation-and-roles-delegation | 18:17 |
| heckj | heh - nice segway | 18:17 |
| dolphm | heckj: i might be able to get rolling on a test framework in the mean time, although i doubt it'll be able to test much without auth | 18:17 |
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| gyee | I am sure david have more stuff to add :) | 18:17 |
| heckj | gyee: any chance you can help dolph with some of the token implemenation bits? | 18:18 |
| gyee | heckj, absolutely | 18:18 |
| gyee | love to help | 18:18 |
| dwchadwick | I think we need to agree on the design as we are now doing via email before finalising the implementation | 18:18 |
| dolphm | gyee: thanks | 18:18 |
| dolphm | dwchadwick: +1, and agree on hard spec changes as well | 18:18 |
| dwchadwick | I would like to agree the concepts first | 18:19 |
| gyee | yeah, lets create an etherpad on the bp | 18:19 |
| dwchadwick | then proceed to the api and coding | 18:19 |
| heckj | gyee: +1 | 18:19 |
| dwchadwick | Sorry but can you explain etherpad and bp to a newbie | 18:19 |
| heckj | gyee: set one up now? I'll link into meeting notes | 18:19 |
| gyee | gimme a min | 18:20 |
| heckj | dwchadwick: etherpad is a collaborative text editor - see "http://etherpad.openstack.org" | 18:20 |
| dolphm | dwchadwick: agree, although it's worth pointing out that if the implementation is do & easy to read, the openstack community will generally provide feedback much more readily | 18:20 |
| dwchadwick | ok thanks | 18:20 |
| heckj | dwchadwick: great for writing together, sharing notes, highly, highly editable | 18:20 |
| dolphm | implementation is easy to do & easy to read* | 18:20 |
| heckj | dwchadwick: bp is shorthand for a blueprint in launchpad | 18:20 |
| heckj | much less editable, kind of a pain in the butt, but what we have as a mechanism to talk about about prioritize feature work | 18:21 |
| gyee | https://etherpad.openstack.org/service-endpoint-isolation-role-delegation | 18:21 |
| heckj | dolphm: 100% agree - makes a HUGE difference | 18:21 |
| heckj | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/service-endpoint-isolation-role-delegation | 18:21 |
| dwchadwick | so we work on a document in etherpad then publish the agreed one as bp | 18:21 |
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| dwchadwick | I have quite a lot of comments to make on the current delegation bp that was published today | 18:22 |
| gyee | dwchadwick, let have all your comments in the etherpad | 18:23 |
| heckj | dwchadwick: you can just leave the etherpad up as a blueprint link, it's handy - but the place we'll need to publish the final spec is in the github repo identity-api - the spec is documented there and effectively published | 18:23 |
| heckj | let's definitely start out on the etherpad though | 18:23 |
| dolphm | general etherpad advice to EVERYONE: mark your comments/feedback in etherpad with your name! e.g. (dolph): my comment | 18:24 |
| dwchadwick | I have just opened up the link but the current bp is not there. its more or less a blank page | 18:24 |
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| heckj | dwchadwick: refresh or re-open https://etherpad.openstack.org/service-endpoint-isolation-role-delegation | 18:24 |
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| heckj | I just put in some text, you should see it | 18:24 |
| dwchadwick | I expected to see the current bp in etherpad so that it could be edited or commented on | 18:24 |
| heckj | I see 7 collaborators connected right now there | 18:25 |
| heckj | Nobody has added it yet :-) If you ahve the link handy, put it in there at the top | 18:25 |
| heckj | blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/service-isolation-and-roles-delegation pasted in there - see it? | 18:25 |
| heckj | dwchadwick: ^^ | 18:26 |
| heckj | guessing so - the whole content of the blueprint just appeared! :-) | 18:26 |
| gyee | nice | 18:26 |
| heckj | Okay - let's head to that topic | 18:26 |
| marek_ | Without pictures | 18:26 |
| heckj | #topic: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/service-isolation-and-roles-delegation | 18:26 |
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| heckj | marek_: ? | 18:26 |
| heckj | gyee - take it away! | 18:27 |
| gyee | hey everybody, marek_'s the author of the bp | 18:27 |
| ayoung | so, the problem with the name service isolation is that we really want endpoint isolation | 18:27 |
| ayoung | service is the Kerberos name for endpoint | 18:27 |
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| ayoung | so we have effectively chose the *best* name to rain confusion down upon our own users head | 18:27 |
| ayoung | s | 18:27 |
| gyee | we need to be able to scope it down to services and endpoints so that your token can not be reuse/abuse if the intended service happened to be compromised | 18:28 |
| ayoung | gyee, does it really make sense to limit it to services? Or is that required for when you don't know what service will be ultimately used? | 18:29 |
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| dwchadwick | If a token is targeted then it cannot be reused anywhere else (unless the accepting party does not care) | 18:29 |
| ayoung | er..what endpoint will be ultimately used | 18:29 |
| gyee | any endpoint | 18:29 |
| dwchadwick | On Ethterpad one of my comments isIt is always a bad idea to give a capability token to anyone you do not trust. | 18:30 |
| gyee | if your token is scoped to an endpoint, it cannot be used anywhere other than that endpoint | 18:30 |
| ayoung | gyee, I am almost prone to say that tokens should be scoped to endpoints | 18:30 |
| ayoung | gyee, yep | 18:30 |
| dwchadwick | agreed | 18:30 |
| gyee | but service should be an option as well | 18:30 |
| dwchadwick | and confidentiality is separate to targeting | 18:30 |
| gyee | right | 18:31 |
| gyee | using PKI, we can issue a cert for that endpoint | 18:31 |
| dwchadwick | So encryption is not the solution to targeting | 18:31 |
| ayoung | gyee, why service? Are there cases where we know that it can be scoped to a service, but don' | 18:31 |
| ayoung | t | 18:31 |
| gyee | and encrypt the token for that endpoint only | 18:31 |
| ayoung | know what endpoint it will ultimately be used on? | 18:31 |
| dwchadwick | No because you can still have surreptitious forwarding | 18:31 |
| gyee | forwarding? | 18:32 |
| heckj | ayoung: for service targeting - if your endpoints are all round-robin to a single service, it would be relevant | 18:32 |
| ayoung | If an endpoint is compromised, we want to make sure no tokens from there can be reused | 18:32 |
| ayoung | heckj, OK | 18:32 |
| gyee | heckj, exactly | 18:32 |
| marek_ | A service might have a few endpoints in different zones and you would like to have a single token that can be used for all its endpoints | 18:32 |
| ayoung | heckj, that seems to call for some abstraction between service and endpoint, or, probably more correctly, a token scoped to a set of endpoints | 18:33 |
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| dwchadwick | if the signed token is not targeted but only encrypted for the service, then the service can decrypt it and re-encrypt it for another service | 18:33 |
| heckj | we've got a little blind spot in the service/endpoint setup - unclear relations between endpoints and how they're used by implementations, means the solution gets more complicated to cover the generalized cases | 18:33 |
| marek_ | It can be scoped to a service or one with higher granularity to one or more endpoints of this service | 18:33 |
| ayoung | I think I would prefer to state "tokens can be scoped to one or more endpoints" unless we are forced to go "service wide" | 18:34 |
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| dwchadwick | this is why we need a clear conceptual specification first :-) | 18:34 |
| dwchadwick | Why not have the targeting at service level plus optional endpoints | 18:34 |
| gyee | a service is one or more endpoints right? | 18:34 |
| dwchadwick | if there are no endpoints specified it means all endpoints of this service | 18:35 |
| ayoung | gyee, more correct to say a service is a powertype of an endpoint | 18:35 |
| heckj | gyee: I think more appropriately a service has one or more endpoints, but technically a servcice can have no endpoints according to the current spec | 18:35 |
| gyee | dwchadwick, yes, we need the flexibility for both services and endpoints | 18:35 |
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| heckj | ayoung: WTF is a powertype? | 18:35 |
| ayoung | heckj, I'll find a link | 18:35 |
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| dolphm | ... powertype? | 18:35 |
| dwchadwick | black and decker? | 18:35 |
| dolphm | dwchadwick: +1 | 18:35 |
| heckj | I see chainsaws coming next... | 18:35 |
| gyee | nice | 18:35 |
| ayoung | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powertype_%28UML%29 | 18:35 |
| marek_ | That is proposed in BP, service scoping with option to scope to endpoint | 18:35 |
| ayoung | heckj, its like a baseclass, but the term is better used in the cases of databases and things like this | 18:36 |
| heckj | #link this is a powertype: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powertype_%28UML%29 | 18:36 |
| dwchadwick | So its a superclass? | 18:36 |
| gyee | WTF's UML? :) | 18:36 |
| heckj | gyee: +1 :-) | 18:37 |
| ayoung | Its an organization for Mixed Martial Arts, I think | 18:37 |
| dwchadwick | So you can scope a token to a service type, and the type of service forms a class hierarchy | 18:37 |
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| gyee | not service type, just service | 18:37 |
| dolphm | by service id? | 18:37 |
| dwchadwick | eg. I scope a token for banking service and it can be used at BoA, Citibank, Barclays etc | 18:37 |
| heckj | dwchadwick: except nothing is really inherited here, so that metaphor breaks down a bit | 18:38 |
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| ayoung | right | 18:38 |
| marek_ | We need the ability to scope to a service instance not a type | 18:38 |
| dwchadwick | How many endpoints does a service instance have? | 18:38 |
| ayoung | marek_, the phrase "a service instance not a type" does not compute | 18:38 |
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| marek_ | 0...* | 18:38 |
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| dolphm | marek_: 0? not 1-3? | 18:39 |
| dwchadwick | These are fine details that should be in the conceptual document | 18:39 |
| gyee | let just call it service | 18:39 |
| gyee | plain and simple | 18:39 |
| ayoung | again, I'm not convince that "all endpoints of a service" is a safe abstraction for tokens | 18:40 |
| ayoung | I would much rather say "this set of endpoints" | 18:40 |
| marek_ | A service has a t least 1 endpoint. But there is no upper limit. | 18:40 |
| dwchadwick | a service (type) has many service instances | 18:40 |
| dolphm | marek_: okay, yeah (i think the current client will choke on an additional set of endpoints, but that's not an API issue) | 18:40 |
| dwchadwick | a service instance has one or many endpoint | 18:40 |
| marek_ | correct | 18:41 |
| dwchadwick | So we could agree to scope a token to a service type, service instance or set of endpoints | 18:41 |
| heckj | ayoung: I'm good with asserting sets of endpoints - makes it very explicit | 18:41 |
| dwchadwick | That is the full range of flexibility | 18:41 |
| marek_ | I do not see a benefit of scoping to service type | 18:42 |
| heckj | ayoung: trick will be asserting that and coordinating that with the endpoint itself, which currently doesn't know or much care about it's endpoint ID | 18:42 |
| dwchadwick | However, regardless of the scoping of the token, it has to be sent to an actual endpoint | 18:42 |
| ayoung | heckj, that will need to be solved anyway | 18:43 |
| dwchadwick | So each endpoint can send the token to Keystone and it can validate whether the token is valid at that endpoint or not | 18:43 |
| marek_ | The user may choose to scope to a service level or narrow down to a particular endpoint of this service | 18:43 |
| heckj | ayoung: yep, just calling it out as an issue to be solved | 18:43 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, that is my understanding as well | 18:43 |
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| dwchadwick | Hence each endpoint must know its lineage (service type, service instance) | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | dwchadwick, just service | 18:43 |
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| heckj | dwchadwick: once the endpoint is correlated with it's relevant endpoint ID, lineage is explorable | 18:44 |
| ayoung | there is no "service type" or , "service instance" abstraction in our dictionary | 18:44 |
| gyee | just service | 18:44 |
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| dwchadwick | there must be the concept of service type and instance since you can have multiple copies of one service running in the cloud | 18:44 |
| marek_ | There is no need for adding service type, unless you want to add common roles per service type | 18:45 |
| dwchadwick | And you have already said that a service instance can have one or many endpoints | 18:45 |
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| dwchadwick | Presumably there will be a service factory that can spawn instances of the service on demand | 18:46 |
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| heckj | dwchadwick: I think the translation that's reasonable close: service_type ==> what we're calling 'service', service_instance => what we're calling 'endpoint' | 18:46 |
| dwchadwick | the scope of roles is another issue to be discussed | 18:46 |
| marek_ | We already have service types like Nova, Swift. Do you mean another type classification? | 18:47 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, "instances of the service" are endpoints | 18:47 |
| dwchadwick | heckj -> I dont think so since a service can have multiple endpoints | 18:47 |
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| heckj | dwchadwick: you're assuming more and deeper structure in your definitions than we have in reality | 18:47 |
| dwchadwick | Maybe | 18:48 |
| dwchadwick | But say a service has an admin endpoint and a user endpoint | 18:48 |
| heckj | they aren't today classes and instances, they're a composition of REST objects with attributes on them that we can manipulate | 18:48 |
| heckj | there's no factory, only API's to create services or create endpoints at the moment | 18:48 |
| dwchadwick | Are these different services in your world view? Because ultimately they should be the same object | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | dwchadwick, they are the same endpoint. | 18:49 |
| heckj | dwchadwick: today, and with the current API, they're treated as 3 separate objects - a service and two endpoints with a relation between them from the endpoint pointing to the service to which they're related | 18:49 |
| heckj | ayoung: more correct | 18:50 |
| ayoung | heckj, do we put admin and public as 2 endpoints in keystone? | 18:50 |
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| heckj | ayoung: no, we shimmed in some attributes on the endpoint so we could differentiate "public", "internal", and "admin" | 18:50 |
| gyee | ayoung, we have the 'facing' attr | 18:50 |
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| dolphm | an endpoint is a pointer to an instance of a service, two endpoints may point to the same instance, a service is useless without at least one endpoint because you can't use it :P | 18:51 |
| dwchadwick | agreed that zero endpoints makes no sense. But what about multiple endpoints | 18:51 |
| marek_ | Well, you can still use the service with hidden/private/disabled endpoints to assigne roles and status of service | 18:52 |
| dwchadwick | like an admin endpoint for the service | 18:52 |
| dwchadwick | Sorry guys but I have to go now. I really enjoyed my first meeting with you via IRC | 18:53 |
| *** vipul|away is now known as vipul | 18:53 | |
| dwchadwick | I can continue on the Etherpad later tonight or tomorrow | 18:53 |
| heckj | dwchadwick: thanks for joining us | 18:53 |
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| heckj | Kristy: thanks for being here as well | 18:53 |
| marek_ | You can define a Nova service in Keystone and use it as target for roles grants. Then later on you add /enable/ or just publish or more endpoints of this service | 18:53 |
| heckj | FYI: We've seven more minutes | 18:54 |
| Kristy | Thanks :) | 18:54 |
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| heckj | gyee: what's your schedule today? I've got another meeting right after this that just smacked me | 18:54 |
| henrynash | are we ready for aob? | 18:54 |
| heckj | aob? | 18:54 |
| henrynash | any Other Business | 18:54 |
| heckj | #topic open discussion | 18:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion" | 18:55 | |
| gyee | heckj, how about I ping you later in the afternoon? | 18:55 |
| heckj | gyee: sounds good - I'll be offline for a while, but back in within a few hours | 18:55 |
| dolphm | marek_: when you say enable the endpoint -- are you referring to the v3 definition of enable/disabling endpoints? | 18:55 |
| gyee | I just need to know what are we going to do with the authenticate() interface for keyrig stuff | 18:55 |
| henrynash | so wanted to let you know that I will complete the bp for groups of suers tonight | 18:55 |
| henrynash | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/user-groups | 18:55 |
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| heckj | henrynash: sounds good - looking forward to readin git | 18:55 |
| gyee | henrynash, I plan on commenting on your bp later today as well | 18:56 |
| henrynash | will hook up the api design doc for it later tonight | 18:56 |
| ayoung | gyee, continue the "authenticate()" discussion in #openstack-dev after the meeting. | 18:56 |
| marek_ | dolphm: yes | 18:56 |
| gyee | ayoung, sure | 18:56 |
| heckj | ayoung: wo'nt work for me- I need to run to other meetings, but will be back in a few hours | 18:56 |
| henrynash | I also plan to complete the bp for private name spaces this week: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/domain-name-spaces | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | heckj, that is OK, we'll have a solution for you by the time you are done | 18:57 |
| heckj | ayoung: yeah, good luck with that | 18:57 |
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| gyee | :) | 18:57 |
| heckj | Wrapping up for now | 18:59 |
| heckj | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 13 18:59:56 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2012/keystone.2012-11-13-18.00.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2012/keystone.2012-11-13-18.00.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2012/keystone.2012-11-13-18.00.log.html | 19:00 |
| heckj | ayoung: gyee: will ping you when I'm back online | 19:00 |
| jeblair | ci ppl? | 19:00 |
| gyee | sounds good | 19:00 |
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| fungi | ya | 19:00 |
| clarkb | o/ | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | mordred: ping | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting ci | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 13 19:01:36 2012 UTC. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ci' | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #topic actions from last meeting | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from last meeting" | 19:02 | |
| jeblair | fungi: any movement on foundation server stuff? | 19:02 |
| fungi | talked to reed again today | 19:02 |
| fungi | he's sitting across a conference table from toddmorey for the next two days, and will try to get some info/movement on it | 19:03 |
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| fungi | my patches are probably a bit stale, so i'll rebase them again | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #action toddmorey provide a test foundation server | 19:03 |
| fungi | other than that, nothing | 19:03 |
| jeblair | i do not think that mordred updated the bug list | 19:04 |
| clarkb | I am pretty sure he hasnt | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #action mordred bugify summit actions | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #action everyone collect action items from other summit session etherpads and register as bugs | 19:05 |
| jeblair | and i confess, i have not done that second thing yet myself. | 19:05 |
| jeblair | I _have_ deconfigured nova-volume testing on master... | 19:05 |
| jeblair | so the current devstack-gate only runs cinder on master | 19:06 |
| clarkb | I did put a thing or two on the state-of-ci list so that mordred would do it :) | 19:06 |
| jeblair | and runs cinder+n-vol for folsom, and n-vol for <folsom | 19:06 |
| jeblair | i think the mechanics for that will work out well for similar projects, like quantum | 19:06 |
| jeblair | #topic grenade / quantum | 19:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "grenade / quantum" | 19:07 | |
| jeblair | These haven't been progressing much; and I need to spend some time tracking people down and trying to get them moving again. | 19:07 |
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| clarkb | what is left for quantum? | 19:08 |
| jeblair | dtroyer suggested that grenade may be making some assumptions about where upgrade data are stored that is not compatible with running it in the devstack gate. | 19:08 |
| jeblair | as for quantum | 19:08 |
| jeblair | there is this change: | 19:08 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14990/ | 19:08 |
| jeblair | which I'd like to get some nova-core people looking at... | 19:09 |
| jeblair | particularly since it seems to do a lot of wrapping devstack exercises with "if using quantum...; else..." | 19:09 |
| clarkb | mordred just walked into a different meeting. fyi... | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | <sigh> | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | #topic testr and friends | 19:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "testr and friends" | 19:11 | |
| jeblair | clarkb: what's up with testr? | 19:11 |
| mordred | jeblair: hey man - some of us have to walk in to meetings sometimes | 19:11 |
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| pabelanger | o/ | 19:12 |
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| mordred | I have patches that get nova all the way to using testr | 19:12 |
| clarkb | so I haven'y been able to do much with testr while you guys were conferencing, but we haven't had a meeting over that time period either... | 19:12 |
| jeblair | mordred: glad you're here. you're up next. :) | 19:12 |
| mordred | except - the last few patches make things SLOW | 19:12 |
| jeblair | that's sad | 19:12 |
| mordred | I have no yet been able to diagnose | 19:12 |
| clarkb | I have a patch that basically got testr mostly working so that nova devs could look at it and play with it | 19:12 |
| clarkb | I think jog0 was one of the few to really take a look at it. | 19:13 |
| jeblair | clarkb, mordred: are these the same or different patches? | 19:13 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: different, mine was more just get it to go and mordreds is more make it work properly | 19:13 |
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| clarkb | one comment from jog0 was wondering if we could have nose and testr as options... | 19:14 |
| jeblair | no | 19:14 |
| clarkb | I kind of figured we didn'y want to support both. However, getting coverage with testr may be tricky | 19:14 |
| fungi | run_tests.sh and tox options are already causing enough confusion on what will pass ci testing | 19:14 |
| jeblair | the attempt to move from run_tests to tox left us with two ways of running tests. i really don't want four. | 19:14 |
| jeblair | fungi: exactly. | 19:14 |
| mordred | I imagine it has something to do with making database init proper fixtures | 19:14 |
| clarkb | the problem with testr and coverage is testr runs everything in different processes and relies upon a line protocol so you can't just run it under coverage to get that info | 19:15 |
| clarkb | each individual process would need to be told to run under coverage then you will need to merge the results. certainly possible, just something I haven't sorted out yet | 19:16 |
| mordred | clarkb: I think we should not care about testr for coverage tests | 19:16 |
| jeblair | mordred: how will we run coverage tests then? | 19:16 |
| mordred | any of the normal test runners | 19:16 |
| mordred | coverage has a wrapper | 19:17 |
| jeblair | i thought testr was more "normal" than nose | 19:17 |
| mordred | no | 19:17 |
| mordred | testr requires that the unittests _themselves_ operate in the usual unittest protocol | 19:17 |
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| mordred | but it's quite a complex pipeline approach suitable for running tests - but not for doing other things | 19:17 |
| jeblair | mordred: then what does it yield us if we still have to run nose? | 19:17 |
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| mordred | running nose for the coverage tests should be fine - because if that fails weirdly, whatever | 19:18 |
| mordred | the tests will have been correctly run via the unittests | 19:18 |
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| mordred | alternately | 19:18 |
| jeblair | mordred: that sounds nice, but i just heard "there are now twice as many ways running tests can break". | 19:19 |
| mordred | there's still only one way to run tests - coverage is a post-analysis things | 19:19 |
| mordred | but I hear you | 19:19 |
| mordred | it's just a thought | 19:19 |
| mordred | the other option is going to be patching subunit/testtools to grok the coverage library | 19:19 |
| jeblair | mordred: actually, we've been talking about making it pre-merge, so you can factor coverage changes into merge decisions. | 19:20 |
| clarkb | I think we can just run subunit/testtools under coverage | 19:20 |
| mordred | ok. nevermind then | 19:20 |
| mordred | we need to patch subunit | 19:20 |
| clarkb | mordred: why? | 19:20 |
| * mordred poked at this on the plane | 19:20 | |
| clarkb | :( | 19:20 |
| mordred | I could be wrong - I'm just pretty sure | 19:20 |
| mordred | please prove me wrong :) | 19:21 |
| jeblair | (and running it pre-merge means that coverage run-time affects overall check test run time, btw) | 19:21 |
| clarkb | I want to say that you can run subunit under coverage and as long as it doesn't fork you get all thedetails | 19:21 |
| mordred | yeah. k. let's make coverage work with testr then | 19:21 |
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| mordred | we need to be able to work with it in parallel mode - which is why we need patching I think | 19:21 |
| clarkb | or have some external way to merge multiple coverage reports | 19:22 |
| jeblair | clarkb: you want to continue hacking on that? | 19:22 |
| clarkb | but yes, patching subunit/testtools is a possibility. | 19:22 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes | 19:22 |
| jeblair | #action clarkb look into subunit/testtools with coverage | 19:22 |
| clarkb | mordred: can you #link your nova change for testr? | 19:23 |
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| mordred | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14949/ | 19:24 |
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| jeblair | shall we move onto project creation? | 19:24 |
| clarkb | yes, I think we have covered testr for now | 19:25 |
| jeblair | #topic automagic project creation | 19:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "automagic project creation" | 19:25 | |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15352/ | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | this seems nearly ready to go! | 19:25 |
| mordred | yes. just needs docs | 19:25 |
| jeblair | didn't clarkb write some? | 19:25 |
| clarkb | no, I fixed the technical issues | 19:25 |
| jeblair | ah | 19:25 |
| clarkb | that said mordred if you are in meetings all day I can crank out docs | 19:26 |
| mordred | clarkb: please. my day got bitchslapped | 19:26 |
| clarkb | ok, I will do that today | 19:26 |
| clarkb | then, once those are written we should probably do another round of testing on review-dev to catch and potential fails in our recent updates | 19:27 |
| clarkb | mordred: or have you been testing as you went? | 19:27 |
| mordred | clarkb: I have not tested the group-add change | 19:27 |
| clarkb | k | 19:27 |
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| jeblair | #action clarkb document and test project creation change | 19:28 |
| jeblair | i'm very excited about merging that and being ready for the expected onslaught of new projects. | 19:28 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:28 |
| clarkb | for those following along at home this change puts gerrit project management in puppet | 19:28 |
| clarkb | so that any one can propose new gerrit projects and have them automagically created when the puppet change is approved through gerrit | 19:28 |
| jeblair | #topic gerrit user sync script | 19:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gerrit user sync script" | 19:29 | |
| jeblair | now that there is an api call in launchpad to look up a user given an openid, | 19:30 |
| jeblair | we can have the gerrit sync script automatically correct the situation where a user logs into gerrit with an unexpected openid | 19:30 |
| jeblair | it's not a perfect solution to the problem, but it should eliminate the need to ask the lp admins to manually correct the situation. | 19:30 |
| jeblair | i've started working on that, and since i have to fully comprehend the sync script in order to implement it... | 19:31 |
| jeblair | i'm trying to leave it in a better state than i found it | 19:31 |
| mordred | you're ripping it down to the new group sync semantics, yeah? | 19:31 |
| jeblair | which means hopefully more modular and maintainable, along with a few technical changes: | 19:31 |
| jeblair | yes, one is that it will only sync groups that exist in gerrit | 19:32 |
| jeblair | which should cut down on syncing tons of unecessary groups and perhaps thousands of users. | 19:32 |
| fungi | potential major runtime improvement there | 19:32 |
| jeblair | another is to cache all the LP data at the start of the script, and move the actual database writes to the end, so that the time spent holding write locks in mysql is much smaller | 19:33 |
| jeblair | so we should be able to actually use gerrit group admin functions again, which we pretty much can't because the script is always holding a write lock on the groups tables. | 19:33 |
| fungi | in which case we might not have to worry so much about turning off the sync script during maintenance involving gerrit db changes too | 19:34 |
| mordred | excellent - once that's in - I want to delete the useless groups too | 19:34 |
| jeblair | mordred: +1 | 19:34 |
| jeblair | i should have something for review soon, but i'm also going to try to make one more improvement: | 19:34 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:34 |
| jeblair | a debug mode that caches the LP data in a pickle for re-use across runs so that we can actually test and debug the script in human rather than geological time. | 19:35 |
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| mordred | :) funny story - I had something similar to that in the VERY FIRST versoin of the script | 19:35 |
| mordred | oops | 19:35 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair finish updates to sync script. | 19:36 |
| jeblair | mordred: yeah, it's pretty important. this poor script has seen a lot of action. :( | 19:36 |
| jeblair | #topic ci-issues-log | 19:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ci-issues-log" | 19:37 | |
| jeblair | clarkb: want to talk about your idea? | 19:37 |
| clarkb | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/ci-issues-log | 19:37 |
| clarkb | at the summit there was a lot of mention about when the infrastructure failed and when things couldn't merge and so on | 19:38 |
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| clarkb | and we weren't tracking these issues very well | 19:38 |
| fungi | assertions about perceived gate "instability" | 19:38 |
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| clarkb | now, these things don't always end up being bugs in hte infrastructure or even things related to what we do, but the perception is there | 19:38 |
| jeblair | perceived is a good word, because at this point the infrastructure very rarely fails. | 19:39 |
| clarkb | so filing bugs against openstack-ci for things we can never fix or don't have a hand in doesn't make sense | 19:39 |
| clarkb | but we still want to track this so I started the above etherpad | 19:39 |
| jeblair | it's useful for that, but i think it's actually more useful as a communication tool for ourselves... | 19:39 |
| clarkb | basically when something fails jot it down in there | 19:40 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes, it has been useful for that | 19:40 |
| clarkb | being able to keep up to date with the latest status of a particular issue is helpful | 19:40 |
| jeblair | i find it's valuable to see what has been happening and what other people have been doing, for exactly the reason a ships log is useful to crews going on and off shift. | 19:40 |
| jeblair | but it can also be a tool for exposing what's going on (and what's going wrong) to the wider community... | 19:41 |
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| jeblair | but whether etherpad is the best tool for that is an open question | 19:42 |
| clarkb | ya, I am still not sold on it | 19:42 |
| jeblair | it's great that we can all edit it and keep things up to date | 19:42 |
| fungi | at my last job, we used a private wordpress instance for that, but it wasn't really ideal either | 19:43 |
| fungi | i like the etherpad better in that the content is more granularly collaborative and wikilike | 19:43 |
| clarkb | we could potentially use a git repository | 19:43 |
| clarkb | to have stronger versioning and history | 19:43 |
| fungi | or a wiki page... | 19:44 |
| jeblair | we could try publicising it and see what happens; i guess my only concern is that misinformation or less-useful information, or "problem dumps" start showing up there. | 19:44 |
| clarkb | or a wiki page | 19:44 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ya, I don't really see it as a user reporting tool | 19:44 |
| clarkb | the info there should be pre filtered | 19:44 |
| fungi | etherpad and wiki are both not natively great for keeping long and continuously update logs of things though, i think | 19:44 |
| clarkb | so that it isn't ambiguous to the next shift if things have been filtered | 19:45 |
| fungi | i think i want something bloglike over the long term but wikilike over the short term | 19:45 |
| fungi | not really sure such a thing exists | 19:45 |
| clarkb | we could use a static content blog system backed by git | 19:45 |
| jeblair | clarkb: i think quick updates are key | 19:46 |
| jeblair | i really hate heavyweight reporting tools. | 19:46 |
| fungi | i agree. and at that, etherpad is great. normal wikis somewhat but not quite as much. blogs and git far less so | 19:46 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: that doesn't exclude your idea, but i think it suggests that maybe it should be wrapped with quick scripts or something. | 19:47 |
| fungi | maybe something that scraped a daily etherpad into a git-backed blog entry? | 19:47 |
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| jeblair | we could also write a web app that's half wiki and half blog. click to edit the most recent entries, automatic archiving of old ones... | 19:48 |
| jeblair | okay, so more brainstorming about this, but it seems several of us really like the idea. :) | 19:48 |
| fungi | yes | 19:48 |
| jeblair | on a related note, flakey tests... | 19:48 |
| jeblair | #topic flakey tests | 19:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "flakey tests" | 19:48 | |
| jeblair | there have been a lot of flakey tests lately, obviously, and the issues log is at least partly a response to that | 19:49 |
| clarkb | yes | 19:49 |
| jeblair | we've been sort of a de-facto clearinghouse for information about the tests | 19:49 |
| fungi | or front desk for complaints about anyway | 19:49 |
| jeblair | which is a useful thing to do, but i think it's distracting us from doing the things we're rather better at than being a help desk. | 19:49 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:50 |
| mordred | jaypipes: you around? this might be a convo you should be in on... | 19:50 |
| clarkb | my initial instinct is to take away reverify | 19:50 |
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| mordred | same here | 19:50 |
| clarkb | you can recheck to see if your patch is actually bad | 19:50 |
| mordred | although it will cause an immediate revolt | 19:50 |
| clarkb | but to merge your code you must take some ownership of the failrues | 19:51 |
| clarkb | and the core members can re authorize if need be | 19:51 |
| jeblair | yes, removing recheck/reverify doesn't stop you from merging code, but it escalates problems. | 19:52 |
| jeblair | and given how solid the infrastructure is, i feel comfortable doing it from that point of view... however... | 19:52 |
| jeblair | it seems like either the code or tests or both are kind of crap right now. | 19:52 |
| clarkb | that said I think the flakeyness is pretty visible and that hasn't helped the troubleshooting much | 19:52 |
| jeblair | and it will really annoy people that their changes are harder to get merged (even if it's the fault of their co-devs) | 19:53 |
| jeblair | so, how about this for a compromise: | 19:53 |
| torgomatic | but if the flaky code is in another project, then that makes developers' lives harder | 19:53 |
| jeblair | torgomatic: indeed, exacerbating that point. | 19:53 |
| fungi | there is only one project, and that project is openstack | 19:53 |
| torgomatic | for example, if the devstack gate fails due to some Cinder thing when run on a commit in Swift, there's about a 0.0% chance that I (as a Swift dev) can go fix it | 19:54 |
| jeblair | fungi: that's right too. :) | 19:54 |
| jeblair | anyway, idea: recheck/reverify require a bug link. | 19:54 |
| clarkb | torgomatic: correct, which is why the core members being able to re authorize is important. | 19:54 |
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| fungi | maybe you don't fix it, but you involve devs for the component which is suspect | 19:54 |
| clarkb | torgomatic: but, in doing so those core members should be working with the other projects to sort out the problems | 19:54 |
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| jeblair | so you have to at least diagnose/triage the problem enough to identify an existing bug in the correct project, or report a new one. | 19:54 |
| clarkb | (this is my thought of how things would work in an ideal world) | 19:54 |
| jeblair | and we whip up a report of the most active/recent bug links attached to reverify/rechecks | 19:55 |
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| fungi | it's also an incentive to step up scrutiny of stability for new openstack components during incubation, since everyone becomes responsible for it being smooth once we gate on it | 19:56 |
| jeblair | so that they can be quantified, tracked in the project meeting, and hopefully more dev attention focused on them. | 19:56 |
| clarkb | I really like that | 19:56 |
| clarkb | may be less useful for rechecks as it could be the patch itself that is broken | 19:57 |
| clarkb | but being able to track and quantify is a giant step above where we are now | 19:57 |
| fungi | yeah, tying every failure to a documented bug report (even a vague one), would be great | 19:57 |
| torgomatic | it can be difficult to know which codebase something else is in, though | 19:57 |
| *** dkehn_lunch is now known as dkehn | 19:57 | |
| clarkb | torgomatic: we can move bugs around projects | 19:58 |
| jeblair | yeah, but if the volumes test fails, you can at least start with a bug against cinder, and if that's not right, it can be moved to the right project on later inspection | 19:58 |
| torgomatic | clarkb: fair enough | 19:58 |
| clarkb | I think if a bug is submitted with general failure details then as part of the troubleshooting that info can become more solid | 19:58 |
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| mordred | (lurking - but can we suggest that the bug gets a flaky-ci tag or something so that they can be raised in the weekly meetings?) | 19:59 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair propose a system for linking reverifies to bugs | 19:59 |
| jeblair | mordred: +1 | 19:59 |
| jeblair | and we're out of time | 19:59 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 19:59 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 13 19:59:49 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ci/2012/ci.2012-11-13-19.01.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ci/2012/ci.2012-11-13-19.01.txt | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ci/2012/ci.2012-11-13-19.01.log.html | 19:59 |
| *** topol_ has joined #openstack-meeting | 20:01 | |
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| ttx | TC members: who's around ? | 20:01 |
| danwent | o/ | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
| russellb | hi | 20:01 |
| markmc | hey | 20:01 |
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| annegentle_ | \o | 20:01 |
| gabrielhurley | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | quorum. | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 13 20:02:04 2012 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| *** topol has quit IRC | 20:02 | |
| ttx | On our plate today: | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| *** topol_ is now known as topol | 20:02 | |
| ttx | jaypipes, heckj, notmyname, bcwaldon, jgriffith, vishy: join us if you can | 20:03 |
| bcwaldon | o/ | 20:03 |
| notmyname | o/ | 20:03 |
| jgriffith | o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Motion: 3rd-party APIs | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Motion: 3rd-party APIs" | 20:03 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2012-November/000088.html | 20:03 |
| annegentle_ | o/ | 20:03 |
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| ttx | This was debated at length on the ML, but not so much after the actual motion text was posted | 20:03 |
| ttx | Any more questions/discussion needed on that before we vote ? | 20:03 |
| annegentle_ | "does yet have" should be "does not yet have"? | 20:03 |
| markmc | probably | 20:04 |
| * markmc has the habit of saying the exact opposite of what he meant :) | 20:04 | |
| notmyname | markmc: then we must be in agreement ;-) | 20:04 |
| markmc | yeah, "does not yet" | 20:04 |
| annegentle_ | markmc: ok | 20:04 |
| ttx | "The previous aspirational statement that the PPB made in May 2012 about 3rd party APIs being implemented external to core stands. However, where a given project does not yet have expose a "stable, complete, performant interface" for 3rd party APIs to build on, that project may choose to accept proposed new APIs in the interim if it sees fit." | 20:05 |
| ttx | any other question before vote ? | 20:05 |
| danwent | "does not yet have expose a" ? | 20:05 |
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| markmc | heh | 20:05 |
| markmc | "The previous aspirational statement that the PPB made in May 2012 about 3rd party APIs being implemented external to core stands. However, where a given project does not yet expose a "stable, complete, performant interface" for 3rd party APIs to build on, that project may choose to accept proposed new APIs in the interim if it sees fit." | 20:06 |
| ttx | danwent: those crazy Irishmen can't spell | 20:06 |
| markmc | I can spell just fine | 20:06 |
| markmc | just add/miss random words here or there | 20:06 |
| russellb | it's that complicated forming of words into sentences thing... | 20:06 |
| danwent | well, i figured errors in the statement would make people think we didn't even read it :P | 20:06 |
| annegentle_ | Sorry, I'm trying to get it. Any scenarios this enables or disables? Does it enable Google's APIs? Does it preclude AWS? | 20:06 |
| *** pabelanger has left #openstack-meeting | 20:06 | |
| annegentle_ | is it sufficiently vague to let PTLs do what they want? (Is that the idea?) | 20:07 |
| ttx | annegentle_: I don't think that statement enables or diables. It brings back full control on the matter to each PTL | 20:07 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: ok, then I do get it :) | 20:07 |
| markmc | annegentle_, the specific ask is "should the Nova PTL be allowed add GCE support to Nova while we don't have a stale API for having GCE support external" | 20:07 |
| ttx | but still give a general "good" direction | 20:07 |
| markmc | s/stale/stable/ | 20:07 |
| ttx | any other question? | 20:08 |
| ttx | Ready to vote ? | 20:08 |
| ttx | #startvote Approve 3rd-party APIs motion? yes, no, abstain | 20:09 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Approve 3rd-party APIs motion? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. | 20:09 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 20:09 |
| markmc | #vote yes | 20:09 |
| *** vipul is now known as vipul|away | 20:09 | |
| notmyname | #vote no | 20:09 |
| russellb | #vote yes | 20:09 |
| vishy | #vote yes | 20:09 |
| danwent | #vote yes | 20:09 |
| mordred | #vote yes | 20:09 |
| ttx | #vote yes | 20:09 |
| jgriffith | #vote yes | 20:09 |
| ttx | "30" more seconds | 20:10 |
| gabrielhurley | #vote abstain | 20:10 |
| annegentle_ | #vote yes | 20:10 |
| bcwaldon | #vote yes | 20:10 |
| ttx | #endvote | 20:11 |
| openstack | Voted on "Approve 3rd-party APIs motion?" Results are | 20:11 |
| openstack | yes (9): markmc, bcwaldon, ttx, vishy, russellb, jgriffith, mordred, annegentle_, danwent | 20:11 |
| openstack | abstain (1): gabrielhurley | 20:11 |
| openstack | no (1): notmyname | 20:11 |
| ttx | #info Motion approved | 20:11 |
| ttx | #topic Ongoing discussion: Incubator process update | 20:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing discussion: Incubator process update" | 20:11 | |
| ttx | We have a thread going on openstack-dev... the idea being to come up with a view that has majority support from the TC to be defended in a joint committee with the BoD | 20:11 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2012-November/thread.html#2387 | 20:11 |
| ttx | Looks like positions are crystallizing around two views so far, which is quite good | 20:11 |
| ttx | View 1 is about separating the "core" and "common release" concepts... | 20:12 |
| * mordred is in favor of crystalization | 20:12 | |
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| ttx | ...considering incubation as the path towards common release, leaving the labels like 'core' to be applied for trademarks choice by the BoD | 20:12 |
| ttx | This was best expressed by markmc in: | 20:12 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2012-November/002470.html | 20:12 |
| ttx | Here, one aspect to consider is that the Foundation bylaws actually define what an openstack project is (in section 4.1b): core + library + gating + supporting | 20:12 |
| ttx | Same article also defines "core" as "the software modules which are part of an integrated release and for which an OpenStack trademark may be used" | 20:12 |
| ttx | Note that the "and" in this definition leaves some room for us to have projects part of an integrated release which would not be "core". | 20:13 |
| ttx | Section 4.13b says the TC can decide for anything which is not a core project, but that the BoD approves TC recommendations for anything core. | 20:13 |
| ttx | The trick being that sections 4.1 and 4.13 is quite difficult (though not impossible) to change, as it's protected by section 9.2d | 20:13 |
| markmc | ttx, bylaws can be changed, sounds like the kind of thing that we should be open to changing | 20:13 |
| ttx | Thoughts? | 20:14 |
| gabrielhurley | I have a question about the proposal that includes the "common release" projects (or any proposal that decreases the number of core projects significantly): how does that affect TC membership? | 20:14 |
| ttx | markmc: sure, it's just one of the sections that require a lot of approvals to be changed | 20:14 |
| markmc | ttx, oh, is it? darn - I'd lost track | 20:14 |
| markmc | gabrielhurley, I think we'd eventually have to get back to the idea of all TC seats being elected | 20:15 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: the "common release" projects could be considered like other "official projects": contributions to them would allow you to vote for directly-elected TC members | 20:15 |
| ttx | then we can decide to stop special-casing "core" projects since we wuldn't care that much about them | 20:16 |
| ttx | which then goes to what markmc just said | 20:16 |
| ttx | View 2 is to still define Core, as pure IaaS. Best expressed by notmyname @ | 20:16 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2012-November/002455.html | 20:16 |
| ttx | I had a few questions about it, maybe others have too | 20:17 |
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| ttx | notmyname: is it, in your mind, completely incompatible with view 1 ? | 20:17 |
| zaneb | so, it seems like modulo some libraries and stuff, "Core" == "in OpenStack" under the current definition | 20:17 |
| mordred | it seems liek notmyname's definition would/could include dnsaas and lbaas but not horizon or dbaas | 20:18 |
| mordred | like | 20:18 |
| mordred | damn spelling | 20:18 |
| zaneb | would we be having the same debate if the categories were "services + library + gating + supporting" | 20:18 |
| zaneb | ? | 20:18 |
| ttx | zaneb: there are official projects, which we control... and a number of them were marked "core" | 20:18 |
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| ttx | the only trick is that the bylaws mention the project categories, which makes it a bit difficult to change | 20:18 |
| * markmc thinks the project should be inclusive, that projects are attracted to joining us under our project umbrella is a good thing | 20:19 | |
| mordred | markmc: ++ | 20:19 |
| ttx | we could cheat by adding whatever we want as "supporting" projects though :) | 20:19 |
| russellb | markmc: +1 | 20:19 |
| zaneb | my point is that we're more hung up on the definition of the word than the definition of the category | 20:19 |
| markmc | zaneb, View 1 is basically to stop fussing about the definition of Core | 20:19 |
| ttx | I think the disscussion about core and incubation will make a bylaws change necessary anyway | 20:19 |
| markmc | zaneb, and leave it purely be a trademark policy thing, which we leave up to the Foundation | 20:20 |
| mordred | so - there's a definition from the OIN about Linux which I really like: | 20:20 |
| ttx | notmyname: around? | 20:20 |
| notmyname | markmc: I think that we should be restrictive because more projects will end up diluting what openstack is and distract from a focus on them | 20:20 |
| mordred | #link http://paste.openstack.org/show/25820/ | 20:20 |
| notmyname | ttx: ya | 20:20 |
| ttx | <ttx> notmyname: is it, in your mind, completely incompatible with view 1 ? | 20:20 |
| ttx | (view 2) | 20:20 |
| notmyname | ttx: ya, I'm trying to grok that into a short statement | 20:20 |
| ttx | ok, take your time :) | 20:21 |
| markmc | notmyname, new projects and contributors IMHO don't dilute, they enhance | 20:21 |
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| zaneb | markmc: +1 | 20:21 |
| mordred | specifically, I like the (reworded): "has been or is likely to be leveraged across multiple OpenStack platforms" | 20:21 |
| annegentle_ | markmc: generally I agree more projects are great, but the shared resources then become more taxed. | 20:21 |
| notmyname | ttx: I think that both view one and view two share similar goals, but the specifics (especially around scope) make the two views incompatible | 20:21 |
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| russellb | hopefully we can grow the contributions to shared resources just as the set of projects grows | 20:22 |
| mordred | annegentle_: well, the shared resources physically are fine - the shared resources in terms of Docs and CI - people need to understand that they need to start participating and sharing the load there | 20:22 |
| mordred | but that goes for our core projects as it is now | 20:22 |
| ttx | notmyname: so your definition of "core" is only valid if core == common release ? | 20:22 |
| *** heckj has quit IRC | 20:22 | |
| * markmc stops typing what russellb just typed | 20:22 | |
| mordred | as almost none of the big-time people contribute squat to the CI infrastructure as it is | 20:22 |
| mordred | so I don't really think that adding new projects is going to be any worse from that perspective than it is now | 20:22 |
| annegentle_ | mordred: russellb: yes I share that hope but then that expectation must be built into the bylaws | 20:22 |
| notmyname | ttx: that's a tautology since it's what's in the bylaws. core should be a limited set of projects that enhance the focus of openstack. I think that means we should focus on IaaS | 20:23 |
| mordred | annegentle_: I think it could be in the TC guidelines for new projects inclusion - hey, you guys particupating in supporting systems at all? | 20:23 |
| markmc | annegentle_, bylaws can't really be used to force people to contribute to specific areas, I think | 20:23 |
| jgriffith | notmyname: +1 | 20:23 |
| russellb | yeah, rules around that worry me a bit | 20:23 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:23 |
| russellb | should be a cultural thing, part of what makes a project be "playing nice" in openstack | 20:23 |
| mordred | yes | 20:23 |
| annegentle_ | markmc: that's true. Just stating my position about expansion vs. conservation. | 20:24 |
| mordred | and I think it's something we need to get out there now anyway | 20:24 |
| mordred | even for our current projects | 20:24 |
| *** jakedahn_zz is now known as jakedahn | 20:24 | |
| markmc | mordred, yep | 20:24 |
| russellb | definitely legitimate growing pains, but i don't think we should let that hinder growth | 20:24 |
| mordred | russellb: ++ | 20:24 |
| ttx | Hmm, what's the way forward ? Continue discussion on the ML ? Formalize both views as motions and vote for or gainst them at next meeting ? | 20:24 |
| notmyname | except that it seems what you're proposing (new projects and more people help us all) is counter to your other goals of "all the projects should work together". all the core devs helping out on all the projects means that the core devs become more "shared resources" and that means more projects dilutes the community | 20:24 |
| mordred | I disagree | 20:25 |
| mordred | I think we're talking about different thigns | 20:25 |
| annegentle_ | I wonder if we're really addressing what the board needs addressed? http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2012-November/000072.html | 20:25 |
| jgriffith | russellb: "playing nice" seems to be a bit subjective and open up quite a bit of interpretation, result is ANY project is core if they "play nice" | 20:25 |
| mordred | I'm not talking about core devs working on all the projects | 20:25 |
| mordred | I was talking about dilution of shared resources - specifically doc and CI teams | 20:25 |
| russellb | jgriffith: sure ... but we're charged with making that judgement call when evaluating projects | 20:25 |
| mordred | and I mainly htink that the project as a whole has not valued adding resources to doc and CI as it grows | 20:25 |
| mordred | in favor of adding more devs to hack on features | 20:25 |
| notmyname | mordred: your team was just talking about core devs needing to research and file bugs on different projects when those bugs prevent gating on a patch | 20:25 |
| markmc | jgriffith, playing nice is a requirement, but not sufficient on its own | 20:25 |
| jgriffith | markmc: that's kinda my point | 20:26 |
| ttx | annegentle_: view 1 is addressing the board needs imho. View 2 is a bit stepping on their toes | 20:26 |
| mordred | notmyname: yes. that's a specific issue | 20:26 |
| mordred | I'm talking about rackspace and nebula and at&t and NTT and HP ponying up people to work on docs and CI | 20:26 |
| mordred | instead of having those people working on internal versions of the same | 20:26 |
| markmc | ttx, I'd love us to have consensus, but it seems like we need some sort of vote | 20:26 |
| notmyname | mordred: which doesn't have anything to do with "core", right? (although it is a critical need) | 20:26 |
| russellb | that's a good point, mordred, we do need to do a better job of that. | 20:26 |
| mordred | notmyname: it does not | 20:27 |
| jgriffith | ttx: Perhaps we vote on if we should even define core or not? | 20:27 |
| mordred | notmyname: it only is a response to "more projects dilute shared resources" | 20:27 |
| markmc | ttx, problem with voting on something is that it needs to be a broad direction, not specifics - plenty to discuss with the board that could change the details | 20:27 |
| jgriffith | ttx: Seems we're all over the map here right now | 20:27 |
| mordred | the shared resources should be scalable | 20:27 |
| gabrielhurley1 | or in a different view, making contributions to docs and CI a part of the bar for incubation/core... | 20:27 |
| mordred | if we're doing it right | 20:27 |
| mordred | and if we're not doing it right, we're screwed anyway | 20:27 |
| markmc | ttx, maybe vote on direction, but need to come back and vote on final specifics after the discussion? | 20:27 |
| annegentle_ | gabrielhurley1: yes that was what I had hoped would be part of the Core definition | 20:27 |
| jgriffith | markmc: +1 | 20:27 |
| ttx | markmc: that sounds good. Are we going to be ready to vote on direction anytime soon, though ? | 20:27 |
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| vishy | are we clear on whether core == included in openstack? | 20:28 |
| mordred | notmyname: so in short, I think "diluting shared resources" shouldn't be a criteria for expansive or restrictive core view | 20:28 |
| markmc | ttx, come up with a "direction motion" over the next week on the list, vote next week? | 20:28 |
| vishy | do we need a vote on that point? | 20:28 |
| mordred | markmc: ++ | 20:28 |
| markmc | vishy, more like we don't care about the definition of core, what we really care about is "included in openstack" | 20:29 |
| ttx | vishy: "core" means "the software modules which are part of an integrated release and for which an OpenStack trademark may be used" | 20:29 |
| notmyname | mordred: that seems impractical. of course it matters. the shared resources are what define openstack. otherwise we're just some cool tech projects | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | hey, sorry y'all.. just now back from a dentist appt. | 20:29 |
| * mordred punches jaypipes | 20:29 | |
| ttx | vishy: theer are multiple ways to interpret that "and" | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | :( | 20:29 |
| * jaypipes grabs tendon | 20:29 | |
| mordred | notmyname: sure they are - but they're also scalable | 20:29 |
| mordred | I think we can add some more projects without the shared resources falling over | 20:30 |
| mordred | unless there is a bottleneck on, say, only having one annegentle_ | 20:30 |
| ttx | may I suggest that we voice our opposition to the two predominant views on the ML thread asap | 20:30 |
| annegentle_ | mordred: I'd never prevent expansion -- I just want scope. I'd like a non-incubated, non-core project to win with a better process. | 20:30 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:30 |
| ttx | so that they can be formalized in time for next meeting | 20:30 |
| ttx | and we can start the discussion on the long overdue other topics | 20:30 |
| mordred | annegentle_: I think I agree with you - but I'm not sure what you mean | 20:31 |
| markmc | ttx, shall I take a stab at drafting another typo-ridden motion? | 20:31 |
| mordred | markmc: YES! | 20:31 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: based on Alan Clark's email, why isn't the motion just to nominate a few people to participate in the revisiting of Incubation? | 20:31 |
| markmc | we can bounce back and forth variations on the motion | 20:31 |
| ttx | markmc: I hereby name you "Main dyslexic motion writer" | 20:31 |
| markmc | that'll get us closer to something to vote on | 20:31 |
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| russellb | annegentle_: well i think we need a unified opinion that those people will represent to the board | 20:32 |
| ttx | annegentle_: we discussed that last week. Nobody can represent the TC since the TC has no official opinion on that yet | 20:32 |
| annegentle_ | ah okay. | 20:32 |
| * mordred will just pretend to be the voice of the TC at the next board meeting | 20:32 | |
| * annegentle_ thinks back to how easy it was to ask Ryan Lane to be a user advocate | 20:32 | |
| ttx | it's a bit hard to pick people if everyone has a different opinion | 20:32 |
| markmc | annegentle_, it doesn't help the strength of the TC if we go into a discussion with the board with multiple disjoint positions | 20:32 |
| mordred | markmc: ++ | 20:32 |
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| ttx | #action everyone to voice their opposition to the two predominant views on the ML thread asap | 20:33 |
| mordred | ttx: will you kill me if I mail out a door-number-3 proposal? | 20:33 |
| ttx | mordred: no, it's perfectly alright | 20:33 |
| mordred | ttx: k. just making sure. | 20:33 |
| * mordred doesn't like angering ttx | 20:33 | |
| russellb | is door #3 the mystery box? | 20:34 |
| ttx | I was wondering if those two views were capturing all views | 20:34 |
| russellb | who can resist the mystery box? | 20:34 |
| ttx | since it looked like most people were satisfied abandoning their own view for view 1. | 20:34 |
| ttx | ok, let's move on. Nothing like an IRC meeting to reignite a dead thread | 20:34 |
| mordred | ttx: view 1 is pretty good ... but I just spent a lot of time on a plane, which gave me time to go crazys | 20:34 |
| * mordred sets ttx on fire | 20:34 | |
| ttx | #topic Preliminary discussion: Distro support policy | 20:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Preliminary discussion: Distro support policy" | 20:34 | |
| ttx | mtaylor: ok go | 20:35 |
| mordred | great. SO | 20:35 |
| mordred | in direct oppostion to what I just said to notmyname ... | 20:35 |
| ttx | (we'll be back to incubator process upadte at the end of meetign if there is time left) | 20:35 |
| mordred | I don't think we, as a project, can support all versions of all pythons on all distros | 20:35 |
| russellb | what does "support" mean | 20:35 |
| russellb | active CI testing? | 20:35 |
| mordred | yes | 20:35 |
| mordred | and or policy | 20:36 |
| mordred | such as - | 20:36 |
| *** samkottler is now known as samkottler|lunch | 20:36 | |
| markmc | so, this is mostly a discussion of where to focus CI resources? | 20:36 |
| mordred | no | 20:36 |
| russellb | and *not* that not supporting it means we rip out all compat code ... | 20:36 |
| mordred | although that enters in to it | 20:36 |
| mordred | but, specifically, there are two things: | 20:36 |
| mordred | a) 2.6 vs. 2.7 | 20:36 |
| mordred | we can't really start supporting python3 until we drop support for 2.6 | 20:36 |
| mordred | I'm not saying we _should_ start supporting 3 | 20:36 |
| mordred | just saying, it's a choice | 20:36 |
| markmc | right, so moving forward makes supporting an older version impossible? | 20:37 |
| mordred | right | 20:37 |
| mordred | BUT | 20:37 |
| markmc | we're sure that 2.6 support precludes starting to support 3.x? | 20:37 |
| mordred | it is possible at this point to write code that is compat with 2.7 and 3.3 at the same time | 20:37 |
| mordred | (string handling is the thing that kills you with 2.6 and/or 3.x<3.3 | 20:37 |
| mordred | it's just not possible to write code which will satisty both at the same time | 20:38 |
| russellb | so, what dependencies are blocking us from python3? that might make this a big no-op anyway? | 20:38 |
| mordred | well - fun story - python3 is going to be the default python in the next ubuntu LTS | 20:38 |
| soren | eventlet, for one. | 20:38 |
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| lifeless | markmc: python 2.6 is syntax incompatible with 3 (or vice verca:) - you can use 2to3 though | 20:38 |
| russellb | we are *very* tied to eventlet right now, and if that doesn't support python3 and isn't going to in the near future ... | 20:38 |
| mordred | so it's possible that our decision is to continue supporting 2.6 for now | 20:38 |
| lifeless | mordred: ^ 2to3 | 20:38 |
| bcwaldon | mordred: how would we justify the requirement for python 2.4 in xenserver plugin code? | 20:39 |
| mordred | lifeless: right. without using 2to3 | 20:39 |
| mordred | bcwaldon: I believe the xenserver plugin is a special case at the moment | 20:39 |
| lifeless | using 2to3 is a bit time consuming | 20:39 |
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| bcwaldon | kk, just wanted to make sure everyone knew about that | 20:39 |
| mordred | we don't even come CLOSE to doing 2.4 for the other projects :) | 20:39 |
| mordred | bcwaldon: good point | 20:39 |
| mordred | before we get too tied in this part, lemme bring up part b | 20:39 |
| mordred | which is distro target support | 20:40 |
| mordred | in the past, we have targeted "latest ubuntu" as our dev platform target | 20:40 |
| russellb | and again, is this about CI focus? or? | 20:40 |
| mordred | it's partially about dependent library versions that we as a project assert to support | 20:40 |
| mordred | CI can and will support whatever the project states that it supports | 20:40 |
| markmc | mordred, what I understood roughly our distro support matrix to be | 20:40 |
| lifeless | pip install everywhere, problem solved. | 20:40 |
| * lifeless runs | 20:41 | |
| mordred | lifeless: it's not | 20:41 |
| markmc | most recent Ubuntu LTS and RHEL | 20:41 |
| mordred | markmc: RHEL is not part of the projects matrix | 20:41 |
| markmc | latest and previous version of Ubuntu and Fedora | 20:41 |
| mordred | although it could be if we decided to make it | 20:41 |
| mordred | and fedora is also not part of that matrix | 20:41 |
| markmc | mordred, well, it'd be a reason to continue supporting python 2.6 | 20:41 |
| russellb | so where's the matrix, heh | 20:41 |
| markmc | mordred, or not moving to e.g. a newer version of libvirt | 20:41 |
| mordred | that's the main question here - what is the matrix | 20:41 |
| mordred | like, what is it actually, rather than what does CI happen to run | 20:42 |
| ttx | Can you see the matrix ? | 20:42 |
| markmc | how can you say what the matrix is and say there isn't a defined matrix? | 20:42 |
| markmc | in the same few sentences? :) | 20:42 |
| mordred | markmc: what I'm saying is, WAY BACK WHEN, it was "latest ubuntu"[ | 20:42 |
| annegentle_ | mordred: The answer is out there, Neo, and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to. | 20:42 |
| mordred | to my knowledge, it has never changed from that | 20:42 |
| mordred | although we've talked about wanting it to | 20:42 |
| notmyname | mordred: what I see in production deploys is "supported LTS releases" and CentOS | 20:42 |
| markmc | mordred, ok, I understood that the "loosely defined matrix" had evolved into what I said before | 20:42 |
| mordred | notmyname: totally. there are MANY ways to skin this cat | 20:43 |
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| mordred | basically, I do not want to be defining this ad-hoc by the set of things I run in CI | 20:43 |
| markmc | mordred, if it wasn't written down, it was a "rough consensus" - I had assumed the consensus had moved on | 20:43 |
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| mordred | because notmyname brings up a great point - there are people running lucid in production still with openstack | 20:44 |
| mordred | do we care, as a body? | 20:44 |
| markmc | what's lucid? most recent LTS? | 20:44 |
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| mordred | nope | 20:44 |
| russellb | so what value do we gain in "officially" supporting a distro, and not just leaving it as having distros officially support openstack? | 20:44 |
| mordred | it's the previous one | 20:44 |
| ttx | markmc: 10.04 | 20:44 |
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| mordred | none of the projects other than swift can even come close to running on it | 20:44 |
| markmc | mordred, ok, but the most recent one was very recently released ? | 20:44 |
| ttx | markmc: best ever. i did it. | 20:44 |
| mordred | markmc: yes | 20:44 |
| mordred | that's why I'm bringing this up, actually | 20:44 |
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| markmc | mordred, there's probably a transition point where you support two LTSs, but not for long I guess | 20:44 |
| mordred | we have now hit the point where CI would normally upgrade the build slaves to quantal | 20:45 |
| torgomatic | however, there are big swift clusters running on Lucid, so that should be considered | 20:45 |
| mordred | but this is the first time we've had a supportable ubuntu LTS during openstack dev | 20:45 |
| notmyname | markmc: actually, LTSs have 5 years of support, so the window is quite large | 20:45 |
| mordred | notmyname: ++ | 20:45 |
| * russellb is curious about the answer to his question | 20:45 | |
| notmyname | markmc: in fact, it will be possible for a lucid deployment to entirely skip precise and move to the next one and not be out of support | 20:45 |
| markmc | notmyname, RHEL has 10+ years, but I don't think it makes sense to support latest OpenStack on 10 year old RHEL | 20:45 |
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| mordred | russellb: I think it's a question of what devs can be expected to care about in their patches | 20:46 |
| mordred | russellb: that's what I mean by "support" | 20:46 |
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| russellb | ok. | 20:46 |
| notmyname | russellb: not to raise another issue, but that is a great question because openstack doesn't actually provide packages for a distro | 20:46 |
| mordred | if someone submits code, and notmyname says "that breaks on lucid" ... should people care | 20:46 |
| mordred | (I mean, I care about everything notmyname says, but you know) | 20:46 |
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| mordred | there is a point where supporting old releases is in conflict with using new libraries | 20:47 |
| russellb | i just don't want to start a distro flame war with people asking why XYZ isn't on our matrix | 20:47 |
| markmc | well, as an comparable example - I think it makes sense to stop caring about RHEL6 maybe 6 months after RHEL7 comes out | 20:47 |
| mordred | indeed | 20:47 |
| markmc | even if that screws RH a bit | 20:47 |
| mordred | which is one of the reasons that 'latest ubuntu' has been the de facto answer so far | 20:47 |
| mordred | I'd be 'happy' to support latest LTS, latest RHEL, latest fedora and latest ubuntu in the CI systems - although I would need some help from redhat to get working redhat slaves up and going | 20:48 |
| ttx | mordred: that sounds like a good set | 20:48 |
| mordred | but I'm not about to start adding complexity if we don't actually want it or just ad hoc | 20:48 |
| mordred | because even if I added that I still wouldn't be supporting lucid for swift | 20:49 |
| bcwaldon | mordred: what value do we get from running on all those platforms? | 20:49 |
| mordred | (although we've discussed adding lucid slaves just for swift because notmyname is cool) | 20:49 |
| markmc | I'm not sure thinking about CI is really getting to the root here | 20:49 |
| russellb | we know much sooner if we break something on platform X | 20:49 |
| markmc | maybe it's really about dependency management | 20:49 |
| mordred | markmc: I agree | 20:49 |
| bcwaldon | but why do we care about that? | 20:49 |
| bcwaldon | we care about having a platform that works for our testing | 20:49 |
| markmc | e.g. a patch to require a newer version of libvirt might kill support for some distros | 20:49 |
| mordred | bcwaldon: that's the question - _DO_ we care? | 20:49 |
| bcwaldon | not that everybody has done their homework before something lands | 20:49 |
| markmc | we should have policy on which distros we support so we can make such a decision sanely | 20:50 |
| mordred | bcwaldon: or do we want to have a dev target and let the distros sort out distro support | 20:50 |
| mordred | (sorry, I might have been phrasing this poorly) | 20:50 |
| bcwaldon | mordred: I think thats much more sane | 20:50 |
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| bcwaldon | mordred: there are a ton of windows people that we would be cutting out if we dont run on their platform | 20:50 |
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| ttx | bcwaldon: I'd say running on multiple platforms (> 1) helps us determine if a given issue is in our code or in the platform code | 20:51 |
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| markmc | there are some decisions we might make about dependencies that would totally eliminate the ability of people to run OpenStack on a set of distros | 20:52 |
| ttx | but maybe we want mulyiple platform only to not be called partial in the choice of the "reference platform" | 20:52 |
| markmc | python version, libvirt version, etc. | 20:52 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: but it also introduces the need to pre-package things before being able to build out deployments and it introduces a bigger set of distro-specific bugs | 20:52 |
| notmyname | I know of swift clusters running on bsd and illumos. I'd hesitate to drop "official" support for lucid, but I'm more opposed to simply saying "latest X". I think mordred's list is a good starting point for compromise | 20:52 |
| russellb | and i think it's to the benefit of openstack, for greater proliferation to have as broad of distro support as possible, so finding issues that hurt that as soon as possible is a good thing. | 20:52 |
| bcwaldon | I don't see enough value in more than two distros | 20:52 |
| notmyname | bcwaldon: more than X distros? (why 2) | 20:52 |
| bcwaldon | notmyname: to thierry's point | 20:53 |
| lifeless | so, the big deployers, AFAIK, are all keen on running tip | 20:53 |
| notmyname | bcwaldon: ah, sorry | 20:53 |
| mordred | well, the multi-distro thing ties back to the 2.6 vs. 2.7 thing ... for instance, precise (latest LTS) and quantal (latest ubuntu) do not have python 2.6 | 20:53 |
| lifeless | perhaps that should be factor in assessing what the project has interest in supporting | 20:53 |
| russellb | RHEL 6 does (and thus CentOS 6) | 20:53 |
| mordred | lifeless: but rackspace are running tip of swift on lucid | 20:53 |
| lifeless | mordred: what are they running tip of nova on ? | 20:53 |
| bcwaldon | I think I'm missing one key piece of info here - are we looking to gate on all of these platforms, or just run post-merge testing? | 20:54 |
| mordred | lifeless: dunno. | 20:54 |
| lifeless | bcwaldon: 'accept bugs on' I think is the statement | 20:54 |
| markmc | it's a tradeoff thing too - I'd probably welcome dropping 2.6 support, if we were actually getting 3.x support in the short term | 20:54 |
| mordred | lifeless: ++ | 20:54 |
| lifeless | bcwaldon: at what point do you say 'that is not a bug' | 20:54 |
| markmc | but dropping 2.6 support and crossing our fingers that it will help 3.x support happen sometime, not so much value | 20:54 |
| bcwaldon | lifeless: I'm not following you | 20:54 |
| russellb | markmc: right but that doesn't seem to be anywhere on the horizon, we're blocked on dependencies | 20:54 |
| lifeless | bcwaldon: e.g. syntax incompatible with python 3.3? Thats a bug. Incompatible with 2.4? Thats not a bug. | 20:54 |
| ttx | mordred: to summarize: I think adding a lot more platforms doesn't really help. it's not more fair because there will always be distros out | 20:54 |
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| ttx | mordred: so better choose a reasonable/manageable set. Could be one or 2 or 4. | 20:55 |
| bcwaldon | lifeless: I'm talking about distros not providing packages or something, not python issues | 20:55 |
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| russellb | well there's CI, and there's what do we care about. can we reject a patch because it breaks platform X. | 20:55 |
| bcwaldon | russellb: yes, thats what I'm interested in getting answered | 20:55 |
| notmyname | russellb: absolutely. production is what matters | 20:55 |
| mordred | that's the thing - we can make automatoin decisions with CI _after_ we know what it is that we have chosen to care about | 20:55 |
| bcwaldon | notmyname: 'production' is subjective, though | 20:55 |
| lifeless | bcwaldon: same basic thing though is my point. Distro has a too-old python-eventlet -> not a bug, if the version is lower than some N | 20:55 |
| mordred | bcwaldon: I don't think it's just about distro packages | 20:55 |
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| mordred | we run mostly from pip anyway (other than libvirt) | 20:56 |
| redbo | Swift will keep working on 2.6, but that doesn't mean it has to be CIed. IMO. | 20:56 |
| bcwaldon | mordred: true, that was just an example | 20:56 |
| lifeless | missing entirely is equivalent to too-old :) | 20:56 |
| notmyname | redbo: +1 | 20:56 |
| mordred | I think it's mainly libvirt + libxml + python-version | 20:56 |
| ttx | redbo: +1 | 20:56 |
| mordred | redbo: +1 | 20:56 |
| ttx | mordred: running out of time. | 20:56 |
| notmyname | bcwaldon: if someone from RAX proposes a patch to swift that breaks softlayers bsd deploy or X's CentOS deploy, it probably shouldn't be merged | 20:56 |
| redbo | if it's a pain, I mean | 20:56 |
| mordred | ok - if we leave 2.6 support for swift out of it | 20:56 |
| ttx | mordred: way forward ? | 20:56 |
| mordred | does anyone ELSE care about 2.6? | 20:56 |
| bcwaldon | notmyname: how can we know that during the gate, though? | 20:56 |
| bcwaldon | mordred: no | 20:57 |
| markmc | lifeless, too old eventlet isn't as big a deal as too old python, though - but hard to define the line there | 20:57 |
| bcwaldon | mordred: bburn it | 20:57 |
| russellb | mordred: well, yes, if we want it to run on RHEL 6 / CentOS 6 | 20:57 |
| mordred | russellb: does EPEL have 2.7? | 20:57 |
| russellb | don't know | 20:57 |
| mordred | because something tells me pure RHEL isn't going to work with openstack anyway, right? | 20:57 |
| russellb | sure it does | 20:57 |
| mordred | it does? I stand corrected | 20:57 |
| mordred | ok. then the RHEL/2.6 is still on the table | 20:58 |
| notmyname | bcwaldon: heh, so maybe we should have a list of stuff we'll support and test against ;-) | 20:58 |
| lifeless | mordred: sure, and I agree. My point was that you can talk about this not as a CI problem, but as 'when would you close a reported bug Invalid' | 20:58 |
| mordred | if we want to support RHEL, then we need ot support 2.6 | 20:58 |
| russellb | yeah, there is an official red hat openstack repo for RHEL now ... | 20:58 |
| mordred | lifeless: I agree | 20:58 |
| russellb | yes | 20:58 |
| ttx | mordred: I'd suggest you start a thread on openstack-dev with a made-up set of supported platforms and let the backslash naturally fall on you. | 20:58 |
| mordred | ttx: ok. I will do that | 20:58 |
| mordred | and we'll come back to it next week | 20:58 |
| mordred | with perhaps more clarity | 20:58 |
| ttx | #action mordred to start ML thread on distro/python support | 20:58 |
| lifeless | mordred: bah, s/mordred/markmc in my last comment | 20:59 |
| mordred | but I think folks here grok the issue at hand a bit, yeah? | 20:59 |
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| ttx | mordred: I still think kicking off the discussion in thos chaotic way helps seeing where the battle lines actually are | 20:59 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:59 |
| bcwaldon | BURN PYTHON 2.6! | 20:59 |
| heckj | heh | 20:59 |
| markmc | lifeless, yep, that's another way - I prefer thinking of it in terms of dependency management, though | 20:59 |
| ttx | so it's useful to have that "preliminaru discussion" | 20:59 |
| * mordred agrees with bcwaldon, just for the record | 20:59 | |
| bcwaldon | prepare for battle! | 20:59 |
| ttx | before we even start the thread. | 20:59 |
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| lifeless | markmc: sure; though to me dependency management is an end product, not a driving force. | 21:00 |
| mordred | markmc: any chance RH have an idea of when a RHEL with 2.7 is coming out? | 21:00 |
| comstud | bcwaldon: phasers on stun | 21:00 |
| ttx | Ok, time is up, thanks everyone! Sharpen your ML flamers, looks like they will serve all week. | 21:00 |
| russellb | mordred: that would be RHEL 7 | 21:00 |
| russellb | which could be late 2013 ... | 21:00 |
| koolhead17 | ttx, :P | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 13 21:00:34 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| mordred | sigh | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2012/tc.2012-11-13-20.02.html | 21:00 |
| markmc | mordred, honestly don't know - RHEL7 isn't too far away | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2012/tc.2012-11-13-20.02.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2012/tc.2012-11-13-20.02.log.html | 21:00 |
| mordred | russellb, markmc: let people know I'll be happier when that is released | 21:00 |
| russellb | k :) | 21:00 |
| ttx | markmc, heckj, notmyname, bcwaldon, jgriffith, vishy, gabrielhurley, danwent: still around ? | 21:01 |
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| notmyname | here | 21:01 |
| danwent | o/ | 21:01 |
| markmc | yeah | 21:01 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: grabbing coffee, brb | 21:01 |
| *** dfg has left #openstack-meeting | 21:01 | |
| jgriffith | o/ | 21:01 |
| heckj | o/ | 21:01 |
| gabrielhurley | ttx: I'm here, but my connection is terrible. mind if I go early in the meeting today while I'm still online? | 21:01 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: granted | 21:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 13 21:01:59 2012 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:02 |
| ttx | Agenda @ http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:02 |
| ttx | #topic Actions from previous meeting | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from previous meeting" | 21:02 | |
| ttx | All done, will detail in each section | 21:02 |
| *** samkottler|lunch is now known as samkottler | 21:02 | |
| ttx | #topic Horizon status | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon status" | 21:02 | |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: still there ? | 21:02 |
| gabrielhurley | heh | 21:02 |
| gabrielhurley | yes | 21:02 |
| gabrielhurley | for now | 21:02 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/grizzly-1 | 21:02 |
| ttx | Looks a bit late to me... still feeling good about all those ? | 21:03 |
| gabrielhurley | not a lot of change since last week. I need to do some hacking on my two BPs over the weekend but they'll be fine. | 21:03 |
| ttx | Especially wondering about the 2 "not started" ones :) | 21:03 |
| gabrielhurley | I reached out to "Ray" for a status on that last BP but no response yet | 21:03 |
| gabrielhurley | I'll reassign and retarget if i don't get anything in a day or two | 21:03 |
| gabrielhurley | and actually the "needs code review" one is merged | 21:03 |
| gabrielhurley | I'll close that | 21:03 |
| ttx | yes, sounds good. Everything else on track ? | 21:03 |
| ttx | like "Unify Horizon Config" ? | 21:03 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah. that one's fine | 21:04 |
| gabrielhurley | just need to wrap it up | 21:04 |
| ttx | ok | 21:04 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/grizzly | 21:04 |
| ttx | Should we tentatively assign file-upload-redux & inline-table-editing to team "Nebula", so that I know you will cover it ? | 21:04 |
| ttx | I kinda like to have at least a vague idea of an assignee on High priority stuff. | 21:04 |
| gabrielhurley | I could do that, sure | 21:04 |
| ttx | great | 21:04 |
| gabrielhurley | I'll make sure anything high priority is assigned | 21:04 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: anything else ? | 21:04 |
| gabrielhurley | don't believe so | 21:05 |
| ttx | Questions for Horizon ? | 21:05 |
| ttx | #topic Oslo status | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Oslo status" | 21:05 | |
| ttx | markmc: hey | 21:05 |
| markmc | hey | 21:05 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/grizzly-1 | 21:05 |
| ttx | About https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/oslo-release-versioning | 21:05 |
| ttx | I started the discussion on the ML, so it could be marked as "started", I guess | 21:06 |
| *** NobodyCam is now known as NobodyCam_lunch | 21:06 | |
| markmc | ttx, yeah, thanks for that - will ponder and reply | 21:06 |
| ttx | Is there more to it than just completing that discussion ? | 21:06 |
| ttx | Did you plan to release any library before g1 ? | 21:06 |
| markmc | nope, just the discussion | 21:06 |
| markmc | I'm hoping to do oslo-config, but it's tight | 21:06 |
| markmc | the argparse re-write is pretty close, but involves some API changes | 21:06 |
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| ttx | Should the library initial releases appear as blueprints so that we track their completion ? | 21:06 |
| heckj | markmc: I'll follow on ML, but wanted to sort out how we were going to do documentation for these various libraries and how that matched to releases/repos. | 21:06 |
| markmc | so on the fence about rushing a release out with it | 21:06 |
| markmc | ttx, good point | 21:07 |
| ttx | markmc: no point in rushing them if no core project makes use of them in the milestone anyway | 21:07 |
| markmc | #action markmc file blueprint for oslo-config release | 21:07 |
| bcwaldon | markmc: you should use glance as your guinea pig | 21:07 |
| markmc | bcwaldon, sounds good | 21:07 |
| ttx | i.e. they can be release early in g2 and then get all projects to use them instead of codecopy | 21:07 |
| markmc | good idea | 21:07 |
| ttx | no real point in having it out "at g1" | 21:08 |
| markmc | it's only going to be oslo-config, nothing else ready I think | 21:08 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/grizzly | 21:08 |
| ttx | Looks good now | 21:08 |
| ttx | markmc: Anything else ? | 21:09 |
| markmc | nope, that's it | 21:09 |
| markmc | appreciate everyone's input on oslo plans | 21:09 |
| ttx | Oh, had a question about common-binaries. You're doing it ? | 21:09 |
| markmc | and renaming the repo, etc. | 21:09 |
| markmc | ttx, yep, I'll do that | 21:09 |
| heckj | markmc: question for you | 21:09 |
| annegentle_ | markmc: more details on doc plans would be useful | 21:09 |
| ttx | Cool, was planning to do it but you can certainly achieve it faster than I would | 21:09 |
| heckj | markmc: what's the general plan around providing docs for these libraries? ANy high level outline? | 21:10 |
| heckj | (just submitted a review that expands and builds docstrings -> sphinx) | 21:10 |
| markmc | annegentle_, yeah - oslo-config is actually a good test case, because cfg actually has fairly good docs inline | 21:10 |
| markmc | annegentle_, just need to figure out how to publish them | 21:10 |
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| markmc | heckj, then you've done more on this than anyone else :) | 21:10 |
| annegentle_ | go heckj go | 21:10 |
| markmc | heckj, it's important, should figure it out as part of the oslo-config release | 21:10 |
| heckj | hence the question - didn't know if they were going to fragment, or be consolidated… would prefer consolidated if at all possible. | 21:11 |
| heckj | (from a writing it point of view anyway) | 21:11 |
| heckj | I can follow up in email/ML | 21:11 |
| ttx | other questions on Oslo ? | 21:11 |
| annegentle_ | markmc: doc builds being published during dev are useful then release them as well - but would also probably need some overall doc arch | 21:11 |
| markmc | each package will have its own docs | 21:11 |
| annegentle_ | probably what heckj is getting at | 21:11 |
| ttx | ok, I guess we are done with oslo, moving on | 21:12 |
| annegentle_ | markmc: we can talk more on ML | 21:12 |
| ttx | #topic Keystone status | 21:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone status" | 21:12 | |
| ttx | heckj: o/ | 21:12 |
| markmc | annegentle_, yep, thanks | 21:12 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/grizzly-1 | 21:13 |
| ttx | Looks good to me. Confident all those are going to hit before next week ? | 21:13 |
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| heckj | V3 api is going slow getting it in, but we're looking good to have a full tech preview | 21:14 |
| heckj | auth_token middleware is in keystoneclient as of this morning, the BP remains open to finish the transition | 21:14 |
| ttx | heckj: so there will be a "refine V3 API" targeted at grizzly-2 ? | 21:14 |
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| heckj | and keystoneclient just had some major updates - we'll be releasing a 0.2 keystoneclient near the end of this week | 21:15 |
| bcwaldon | heckj: what does the general path look like for projects to use the middleware from the new location? | 21:15 |
| Vek | heckj: hope my patch gets in to that... | 21:15 |
| heckj | ttx: I expect so, but a lot of that work is covered under more specific blueprints | 21:15 |
| bcwaldon | heckj: and will you import the middleware from keystoneclient into a location in keystone to keep backwards compat? | 21:15 |
| ttx | heckj: I think from a features communication standpoint it would be good to complete the blueprint that covers the full tech preview | 21:15 |
| ttx | heckj: so that it's clear that it hit at g1 | 21:16 |
| heckj | bcwaldon: can do - don't think that was explicitly in our plans. | 21:16 |
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| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/grizzly | 21:16 |
| ttx | Looks all good to me. | 21:16 |
| ttx | heckj: Anything else you wanted to mention ? | 21:17 |
| heckj | lots of early motion, good progress. That's it! | 21:17 |
| ttx | Questions about Keystone ? | 21:17 |
| ttx | #topic Swift status | 21:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Swift status" | 21:18 | |
| notmyname | o/ | 21:18 |
| ttx | notmyname: hi! | 21:18 |
| ttx | Just released today: https://launchpad.net/swift/grizzly/1.7.5 | 21:18 |
| notmyname | it's a great release. I'm working on an announcement email/post today | 21:19 |
| ttx | notmyname: did you announce it yet ? | 21:19 |
| ttx | ok | 21:19 |
| ttx | notmyname: you can post to openstack-announce too, I'll make sure it passes the ML filter | 21:19 |
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| notmyname | ok | 21:19 |
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| ttx | notmyname: A bit early I guess to talk about next grizzly version... 1.7.6 ? | 21:20 |
| notmyname | ya, a bit early, but there has been some cleanup of the bugs and blueprints | 21:20 |
| ttx | notmyname: I can setup a 1.7.6 milestone, without date, so that people can target at the "next" milestone.. we can change name and date later ? | 21:21 |
| notmyname | yes. sounds good | 21:21 |
| ttx | #action ttx to set up swift 1.7.6 milestone, no eta yet | 21:21 |
| ttx | notmyname: anything else ? | 21:21 |
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| notmyname | just the release. that's all | 21:21 |
| ttx | Questions on Swift ? | 21:22 |
| ttx | #topic Glance status | 21:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Glance status" | 21:22 | |
| ttx | bcwaldon: hey | 21:22 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: oh hey | 21:22 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/glance/+milestone/grizzly-1 | 21:22 |
| ttx | now that's what I call done | 21:22 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: why thank you | 21:23 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: we'll probably pull some more on over the next week | 21:23 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/grizzly | 21:23 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: probably just 'whatever happens to get fixed' | 21:23 |
| ttx | admittedly 2 blueprints over a total of 12 is not that great of a % on the overall grizzly plan :) | 21:24 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: come on now | 21:24 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: be nice | 21:24 |
| ttx | I play good cop AND bad cop at the same time. | 21:24 |
| ttx | So.. on the grizzly plan | 21:24 |
| Vek | boy, talk about split personalities... | 21:25 |
| ttx | Would be good to set a priority to streaming-server | 21:25 |
| ttx | and set tentative target milestones, especially on essential/high stuff | 21:25 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: yes, that might not line up with our priorities for grizzly | 21:25 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: I'm thinking through the rest right meow | 21:25 |
| ttx | bcwaldon: great. Anything else ? | 21:26 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: No, officer | 21:26 |
| ttx | Questions on Glance ? | 21:26 |
| ttx | #topic Quantum status | 21:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Quantum status" | 21:27 | |
| ttx | danwent: o/ | 21:27 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/quantum/+milestone/grizzly-1 | 21:27 |
| danwent | o/ | 21:27 |
| ttx | good progress overall... but only one week left | 21:27 |
| ttx | Anything you would drop of this (long) list to ensure focus on the rest ? | 21:27 |
| danwent | yup, everything will be posted for a review by wed, or moved out | 21:27 |
| ttx | sounds good. | 21:27 |
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| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/grizzly | 21:28 |
| danwent | i priortized everything | 21:28 |
| danwent | prioritized :) | 21:28 |
| ttx | let me refresh | 21:29 |
| ttx | looks like everything was covered recently :) | 21:29 |
| danwent | yup | 21:30 |
| ttx | Would be good to set a milestone for ipv6-feature-parity & make-string-localizable | 21:30 |
| ttx | since theyare "high" prio | 21:30 |
| ttx | otherwise looks good! | 21:31 |
| danwent | ok, will ping the dev on the v6 one. I think we may still need to find someone for localization | 21:31 |
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| danwent | ah, looks like someone signed up | 21:31 |
| danwent | will do | 21:31 |
| ttx | danwent: Anything else ? | 21:31 |
| danwent | nope | 21:31 |
| ttx | Questions on Quantum ? | 21:31 |
| ttx | #topic Cinder status | 21:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder status" | 21:32 | |
| ttx | jgriffith: o/ | 21:32 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/grizzly-1 | 21:32 |
| jgriffith | ttx: hey there | 21:32 |
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| ttx | OK, this this looks in slow progress... with only one week left ? | 21:32 |
| jgriffith | The ones that aren't started should be quick and I plan to pick them up this week-end if they don't get done | 21:33 |
| jgriffith | The first two items just need to make it through reviews | 21:33 |
| ttx | hmm, ok. Should I add xenapi-storage-manager-nfs to the grizzly series goal ? | 21:34 |
| ttx | i.e. do you bless it ? | 21:34 |
| jgriffith | I did | 21:34 |
| jgriffith | yes | 21:34 |
| ttx | done | 21:34 |
| jgriffith | thx | 21:34 |
| ttx | jgriffith: so you're still confident everything can hit g1 | 21:35 |
| jgriffith | ttx: absolutely | 21:35 |
| ttx | awesome! | 21:35 |
| ttx | Looking at the general plan now... | 21:35 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/grizzly | 21:35 |
| ttx | Who is going to work on cinder-api-2.0 ? | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | ttx: It's already in progress by thingee... | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I'll update | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | ttx: Oh... you found a dup | 21:36 |
| ttx | oh, that explains it | 21:37 |
| ttx | just mark one obsolete | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I'll need to merge Chucks and Mike's | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | ttx: doing it now | 21:37 |
| ttx | Also retain-glance-metadata-for-billing is "proposed" for grizzly, should I confirm it ? | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | ttx: yes please, I just targetted that this morning | 21:38 |
| ttx | done | 21:38 |
| ttx | jgriffith: Anything else ? | 21:38 |
| ttx | Questions on Cinder ? | 21:38 |
| ttx | #topic Nova status | 21:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova status" | 21:39 | |
| ttx | vishy: o/ | 21:39 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/grizzly-1 | 21:39 |
| vishy | hi | 21:39 |
| ttx | Generally good progress, but only one week left... | 21:39 |
| ttx | Anything that won't make it that we should already defer to g2 ? | 21:40 |
| ttx | Could help in prioritizing reviews | 21:40 |
| vishy | i went through in defering a couple of things already | 21:40 |
| vishy | compute cells seems unliekely to land | 21:40 |
| vishy | and entrypoints as well | 21:41 |
| vishy | mostly due to review delays | 21:41 |
| vishy | comstud / mordred: does that seem accurate? | 21:41 |
| ttx | how is "Delete all traces of volume code from nova" going ? | 21:41 |
| vishy | that one is close | 21:41 |
| ttx | ok, good | 21:41 |
| ttx | it's good to have the cleanup full by the time the milestone hits | 21:41 |
| comstud | vishy: When is cut-off for g-1 ? Seems unlikely | 21:41 |
| ttx | comstud: EOB next tuesday | 21:42 |
| comstud | yeah, we'll need slightly longer I suspect | 21:42 |
| ttx | vishy: defer as appropriate | 21:42 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/grizzly | 21:42 |
| ttx | Still a few issues there... | 21:43 |
| ttx | Would be good to have assignees for the "High" priority stuff | 21:43 |
| ttx | if nobody goes for it and they are targets of opportunity, maybe we can downprioritize those | 21:43 |
| ttx | vishy: how is the hunt for volunteer assignees going so far ? | 21:44 |
| vishy | ttx: haven't heard a peep! | 21:44 |
| vishy | :( | 21:44 |
| ttx | vishy: call was a bit lost in your last email, iirc | 21:45 |
| vishy | ttx: think i should send out another one for specific ones? | 21:45 |
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| vishy | ttx: a few of those I think we can assign to their drafters | 21:45 |
| vishy | ttx: i will go through and do that and send out an email for volunteers for the rest | 21:45 |
| ttx | vishy: for the ones that are really "High" prio, a specific email asking for volunteers can't hurt | 21:46 |
| ttx | +1 | 21:46 |
| ttx | Also we need more tentative milestone targets set | 21:46 |
| ttx | but one is linked to the other | 21:46 |
| ttx | no assignee, no milestone | 21:46 |
| ttx | A few prio mismatches, detected by ttx.py: | 21:46 |
| ttx | db-cleanup (High) depends on blueprint with lower priority (db-api-cleanup, Medium) | 21:46 |
| ttx | Same for nova-v3-api (High), depending on apis-for-nova-manage (Medium) | 21:47 |
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| ttx | #action vishy to adjust priorities for db-cleanup db-api-cleanup nova-v3-api apis-for-nova-manage to avoid depending on lower prio bps | 21:47 |
| ttx | vishy: Anything else ? | 21:47 |
| vishy | hmm, tha second one doesn't really seem like a dependency exactly | 21:47 |
| vishy | nope | 21:47 |
| vishy | ok i will clean | 21:47 |
| ttx | vishy: removing the dependency link will ALSO fix it :) | 21:48 |
| ttx | Questions on Nova ? | 21:48 |
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| ttx | #topic Incubated projects | 21:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects" | 21:48 | |
| ttx | Anyone to talk Ceilometer ? | 21:48 |
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| ttx | Anyone from Heat ? | 21:49 |
| eglynn_ | o/ | 21:49 |
| stevebake | o/ | 21:49 |
| eglynn_ | (from ceilo) | 21:49 |
| ttx | ok, ceilometer first | 21:49 |
| ttx | Looking at https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/grizzly | 21:49 |
| ttx | Want me to create milestones at the common dates ? | 21:49 |
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| eglynn_ | nothing much to report other than reaching out to the Synaps folks with a view to closer collaboration | 21:49 |
| eglynn_ | ttx re. milestones I'd say G-2 will be our first | 21:50 |
| zaneb | o/ | 21:50 |
| ttx | #action ttx to create milestones for ceilometer grizzly starting at g2 | 21:50 |
| ttx | eglynn_: Also I looked into jobs necessary for integrated release... Now that you have common-bump-milestone support, I think you only need a proper ceilometer-tarball job | 21:50 |
| eglynn_ | (a fair bit of churn ongoing on WRT to removing nova DB access) | 21:50 |
| ttx | eglynn_: so you can add that to your list of requests to CI :) | 21:50 |
| eglynn_ | ttx: cool | 21:50 |
| ttx | Finally it would be good to work on your Grizzly plans a bit | 21:51 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/grizzly | 21:51 |
| ttx | Looks a bit bare atm | 21:51 |
| eglynn_ | yep, understood, we'll get ours hand around that this week | 21:51 |
| ttx | #action ceilometer crew to ask for a ceilometer-tarball job and pimp up their grizzly roadmap | 21:51 |
| eglynn_ | s/ours hand/our hands/ | 21:51 |
| ttx | stevebake: hello, and welcome to the crazy fast meeting | 21:51 |
| stevebake | https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/grizzly-1 | 21:51 |
| ttx | nice! | 21:52 |
| ttx | The first step towards total assimilation would be to align Launchpad teams | 21:52 |
| ttx | You seem to have a single ~heat team (Heat Drivers), and no ~heat-core | 21:52 |
| ttx | Those teams represent different things. heat-core are the code reviewers, while heat-drivers are in charge of the roadmap. | 21:52 |
| stevebake | We're still migrating content from the github wiki, so light on blueprints | 21:52 |
| ttx | They can be the same people, but generally the drivers group is much smaller | 21:52 |
| ttx | So my suggestion would be to create a heat-core group, set review permissions to those | 21:52 |
| stevebake | ok | 21:52 |
| ttx | then rename ~heat to ~heat-drivers and clean it up (should be PTL + a limited few helpers) | 21:52 |
| ttx | #action heat crew to align Launchpad teams with openstack model | 21:53 |
| zaneb | I thought there was a heat-core, but I could be wrong | 21:53 |
| ttx | stevebake: when do you think you want me to start doing your milestone releases ? g2 ? g3 ? | 21:53 |
| stevebake | we're still discussing whether to do a g-1 release, since we're only just incubated | 21:53 |
| stevebake | but I think we can commit to g-2 onwards | 21:54 |
| zaneb | +1 | 21:54 |
| ttx | stevebake: that would be next week. Maybe skip it if it doesn't make sense feature-wise | 21:54 |
| stevebake | we might do a slightly delayed g-1 | 21:54 |
| ttx | stevebake: OK, I'll investigate how far you are from a Jenkins job standpoint and keep you posted | 21:54 |
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| ttx | stevebake: sure, delayed g1 is an option | 21:54 |
| stevebake | that is all. Progress is being made | 21:55 |
| ttx | stevebake: did you already switch to openstack common versioning ? Or still using the original heat versions ? | 21:55 |
| ttx | i.e. v8 or 2013.1? | 21:55 |
| zaneb | we haven't switched that over yet | 21:55 |
| zaneb | but I think next release it would make sense to do that | 21:56 |
| ttx | might not be worth calling something g-1 until you do that | 21:56 |
| zaneb | yes, that makes sense | 21:56 |
| stevebake | Also need to choose a versioning for first release of python-heatclient | 21:56 |
| ttx | so two options, doing a v..8? or switch versioning and do a 2013.1~g1 | 21:56 |
| ttx | stevebake: that's a lot more open. Client libraries just can pick whatever they want ;) | 21:57 |
| stevebake | ok | 21:57 |
| ttx | ok, need to move on | 21:57 |
| ttx | stevebake: thanks! | 21:57 |
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| ttx | #topic Other Team reports | 21:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other Team reports" | 21:57 | |
| ttx | QA, Docs, CI: anyone ? | 21:57 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion" | 21:58 | |
| ttx | I'm looking into changing the format of the meeting, covering the stuff that matters to everyone first | 21:58 |
| ttx | since most people just drop from the meeting when they are done | 21:58 |
| ttx | and nobody listens to me at this point | 21:58 |
| ttx | That means we would drop the "Other Team reports" and "Open discussion" topics at the end and replace them with a "General announcements" topic at the start | 21:59 |
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| ttx | Additionally we'll remove the "Actions from last week" topic and talk about those in each corresponding topic. | 21:59 |
| ttx | Unless someone complains I'll switch to that format for next meeting. | 21:59 |
| ttx | #action ttx to revamp meeting format for next time | 21:59 |
| ttx | annegentle_: that affects you ^ | 21:59 |
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| ttx | annegentle_: should make it easier to announce stuff while everyone is still listening | 22:00 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: nice | 22:00 |
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| annegentle_ | cuz I wanted to announce our participation in the GNOME Outreach Program for Women! | 22:00 |
| annegentle_ | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/GnomeOutreachWomen | 22:00 |
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| ttx | annegentle_: cool! | 22:01 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 22:01 |
| annegentle_ | very exciting. | 22:01 |
| ttx | annegentle_: unfortunately nobody listens anymore. I'd suggest a post on the ML :) | 22:02 |
| annegentle_ | ttx: yup, will do :) | 22:02 |
| heckj | heh | 22:02 |
| ttx | and that closes our meeting. Thanks everyone | 22:02 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 22:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 13 22:02:21 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2012/project.2012-11-13-21.01.html | 22:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2012/project.2012-11-13-21.01.txt | 22:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2012/project.2012-11-13-21.01.log.html | 22:02 |
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| annegentle_ | thanks ttx | 22:02 |
| vipul | #topic Reddwarf Meeting | 22:02 |
| ttx | we now have a following meeting so I have to be on time :) | 22:02 |
| hub_cap | #startmeeting reddwarf | 22:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 13 22:02:56 2012 UTC. The chair is hub_cap. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'reddwarf' | 22:02 |
| ttx | hub_cap: sorry was 2 min late | 22:03 |
| hub_cap | ttx: your on my list | 22:03 |
| hub_cap | ;) | 22:03 |
| hub_cap | *youre | 22:03 |
| vipul | so that's how it's done | 22:03 |
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| hub_cap | yup then we do things like | 22:03 |
| jcooley | jcooley here as well. | 22:04 |
| hub_cap | lets wait a few minutes for everyone to join up | 22:04 |
| hub_cap | agenda is here http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/RedDwarfMeeting | 22:04 |
| hub_cap | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/RedDwarfMeeting | 22:04 |
| SlickNik | Nikhil here as well. | 22:05 |
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| hub_cap | ok seems like we have a quorom lets get started based on the link above | 22:05 |
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| hub_cap | #topic Meet and greet | 22:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Meet and greet" | 22:05 | |
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| hub_cap | lets spend a few seconds each saying hi and what we do, where we are, who w work for etc.. | 22:06 |
| hub_cap | im michael basnight, lead of the opensource portion of the project from rackspace | 22:06 |
| hub_cap | feel free to start typing everyone :) | 22:06 |
| vipul | Hey! Vipul from HP - lead for Reddwarf @ HP | 22:06 |
| hub_cap | lets add tags to them | 22:06 |
| juice | justin hopper, working with the dbaas team at HP. Pretty new to all of this :) | 22:07 |
| hub_cap | #info michael basnight, lead of the opensource portion of the project from rackspace | 22:07 |
| kmansel | Hi. Kevin from HP | 22:07 |
| jdorothy | Josh Dorothy w/ HP | 22:07 |
| hub_cap | if we add tags itll show in the notes | 22:07 |
| juice | I sit next to Kevin (rather unpleasant :) | 22:07 |
| ThiagoCMC | Hi! I'm Thiago and I'm doing a POC of OpenStack for my own start up company (public cloud computing provider). I'm using today the OpenStack Alamo, from Rackspace for my tests... | 22:07 |
| jdorothy | #info Josh Dorothy w/ HP | 22:07 |
| yidclare | #info Clare Springer w/ HP | 22:07 |
| juice | #info Justin Hopper w/ HP | 22:07 |
| vipul | #info Vipul Sabhya @ hp | 22:07 |
| hub_cap | ThiagoCMC: welcome! a 3rd party so to speak (figured we would all be from hp or rax) | 22:07 |
| SlickNik | #info Nikhil Manchanda, with HP. | 22:08 |
| esp2 | Hello. #info Dan Nguyen @HP | 22:08 |
| jcooley | #info jim cooley, director of database/reddwarf @ HP | 22:08 |
| ThiagoCMC | hub_cap, awesome! tks! | 22:08 |
| saurabhs | #info Saurabh, w/ HP | 22:08 |
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| SlickNik | Still wrapping my head around the way OpenStack does things, so thanks for being helpful everyone. | 22:08 |
| hub_cap | nice to see you all HP'ers, i believe the rax peoplez are in sprint planning, soooo...... they likley wont be on today, but im holding down the fort w/ a crying baby in the background :) | 22:08 |
| vipul | where's all the rackers | 22:08 |
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| hub_cap | grapex2: when grapex and grapex1 dont work | 22:09 |
| kmansel | #info Kevin Mansel @ HP | 22:09 |
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| rnirmal | #info Nirmal Ranganathan @ Rackspace.. just eavesdropping | 22:10 |
| hub_cap | #info grapex is tim simpson, sr dev on the project at rax, cp16net is craig vyvial sr dev at rax, rnirmal is nirmal ranganathan former reddwarfer | 22:10 |
| hub_cap | lol | 22:10 |
| hub_cap | ok cool lets keep a-goin | 22:10 |
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| hub_cap | #topic Discuss launchpad participation | 22:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss launchpad participation" | 22:10 | |
| hub_cap | just to let everyone know, ive been mucking w/ the launchpad page today | 22:10 |
| hub_cap | #link https://launchpad.net/reddwarf | 22:10 |
| spiffxp | #info Aaron Crickenberger w/ HP | 22:11 |
| hub_cap | hehe | 22:11 |
| hub_cap | thats gonna show up under the launchpad participation lol | 22:11 |
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| hub_cap | #info added the grizzly series to the page | 22:11 |
| hub_cap | i figured we should follow the same release schedule as the rest of the openstackers, any objections? | 22:11 |
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| vipul | Sounds good to me | 22:12 |
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| SlickNik | Sounds reasonable. | 22:12 |
| rnirmal | easier to track | 22:12 |
| vipul | thanks for fixing the links | 22:12 |
| hub_cap | vipul: no problemo, if u see anythign else, and 1) dont have access to fix, tell me, or 2) ask me to fix | 22:13 |
| hub_cap | id lke ot make it so im not the only person who can do this, i dont want it to be a Autocracy | 22:13 |
| hub_cap | id prefer the #1 from above over teh #2 ;) | 22:13 |
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| vipul | cool, I may have the correct permissions, since i do see 'Change details' | 22:14 |
| hub_cap | looks like rackers are coming in slowly | 22:14 |
| hub_cap | vipul: good | 22:14 |
| hub_cap | ok so does anyone have any info/links/etc for that topic? or we move on? | 22:15 |
| spiffxp | re: release schedule, are we talking about something more general than http://wiki.openstack.org/GrizzlyReleaseSchedule? | 22:15 |
| SlickNik | I had a quick clarification. | 22:15 |
| hub_cap | SlickNik: go for it | 22:15 |
| hub_cap | #link https://launchpad.net/reddwarf/grizzly | 22:15 |
| hub_cap | spiffxp: ^ ^ | 22:15 |
| SlickNik | If I had a bug/issue that I wanted to open against redstack, can I use the reddwarf lauchpad site to do it? | 22:15 |
| hub_cap | spiffxp: ive added the grizzly milestones to the series as well | 22:16 |
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| spiffxp | got it | 22:16 |
| hub_cap | SlickNik: thats a good question, we might need to add a separate page for that, lets model it after devstack | 22:16 |
| hub_cap | looks like devstack has thier own | 22:16 |
| hub_cap | #action grapex to make a launchpad site for redstack | 22:16 |
| SlickNik | Awesome, that would be ideal. Thanks! | 22:17 |
| grapex | hub_cap: Sounds cool. | 22:17 |
| hub_cap | cool any more Qs or moving on? | 22:17 |
| vipul | Long term though, are we thinking of migrating Redstack into Devstack? | 22:17 |
| vipul | so this may be the interim solution, until we get there | 22:17 |
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| hub_cap | vipul: as much as possible i think so | 22:18 |
| hub_cap | i talked w/ anotherjesse a long while ago about booting special services in devstack | 22:18 |
| vipul | hub_cap: yea there seems to be precendence with non-incubated projects already being part of devstack | 22:19 |
| hub_cap | they were on board w/ making a configurable system to allow us (and others) to use our own configure logic within devstack, so i think that in some form of fashion we will have our own particulars | 22:19 |
| hub_cap | lol ya vipul | 22:19 |
| rnirmal | hub_cap: devstack now is updated to have loadable libs | 22:19 |
| rnirmal | so could potentially add reddwarf | 22:19 |
| rnirmal | libs as in bunch of bash scripts | 22:19 |
| hub_cap | "libs" | 22:20 |
| hub_cap | ya #topic devstack integration | 22:20 |
| hub_cap | #info we need a way to configure reddwarf easier within devstack | 22:20 |
| hub_cap | who wants the action item to talk w/ devstack about it? | 22:21 |
| hub_cap | #topic devstack integration | 22:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "devstack integration" | 22:21 | |
| hub_cap | lol if the hashtag isint at the begin it does nothing | 22:21 |
| SlickNik | just noticed that. | 22:21 |
| hub_cap | #info we need a way to configure reddwarf easier within devstack | 22:21 |
| vipul | these meeting notes are going to be a work in progress :) | 22:21 |
| hub_cap | vipul: fo sure | 22:22 |
| hub_cap | so as for ownership any volunteers? if not ill take it | 22:22 |
| hub_cap | #action hub_cap to discuss devstack integration | 22:22 |
| jcooley | we can talk with the devstack/ci folks, some of them are right here :) | 22:22 |
| hub_cap | #info consider using the libs in devstack | 22:22 |
| hub_cap | jcooley: u want the action? | 22:23 |
| jcooley | sure | 22:23 |
| hub_cap | #action jcooley (not hub_cap) to discuss devstack integration | 22:23 |
| vipul | #info non-incubated precendence already in devstack, see 'ryu' integration | 22:23 |
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| hub_cap | cool, time to move on? | 22:23 |
| SlickNik | yeah | 22:24 |
| hub_cap | #topic Discuss initial core team | 22:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss initial core team" | 22:24 | |
| hub_cap | so id like ot keep core very small at first, like 2 from each of our teams | 22:25 |
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| vipul | #info current reddwarf-core team: hub_cap, grapex, vipul | 22:25 |
| hub_cap | and add more as we have code reviews / contributions | 22:25 |
| vipul | hub_cap, we'd like to propose one more from our side to get things stated | 22:25 |
| hub_cap | spiffxp: ? | 22:25 |
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| spiffxp | sure | 22:26 |
| spiffxp | actually… | 22:26 |
| hub_cap | vipul: did u have someone in mind? | 22:26 |
| * spiffxp nominates SlickNik | 22:26 | |
| vipul | spiffxp or SlickNik | 22:26 |
| hub_cap | ok ill let you decide vipul | 22:26 |
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| hub_cap | and ill add to the team | 22:26 |
| vipul | spiffxp | 22:27 |
| hub_cap | so the _only_ thing we need to be cognisant of is that we make sure the "other" company has a stake in each review | 22:27 |
| hub_cap | #action hub_cap to add spiffxp to core team | 22:27 |
| SlickNik | Sounds good. I recommend spiffxp. | 22:27 |
| ThiagoCMC | Guys, will be a "beta testers team"? If yes, I'm on it! | 22:28 |
| ThiagoCMC | ;-) | 22:28 |
| grapex | So it seems like we need +4 total on a commit to merge it. Does anyone want it to be higher? | 22:28 |
| hub_cap | ThiagoCMC: you are the beta tester team! | 22:28 |
| ThiagoCMC | Cool! | 22:28 |
| spiffxp | hub_cap: I wasn't sure if we wanted to try encoding that w/ some crazy ci rules at some point, I think it's out of openstack-ci's scope right now | 22:28 |
| hub_cap | grapex: id say we need a +3 and that should suffice right spiffxp grapex? | 22:28 |
| hub_cap | +2 from one team and then +1 from the other | 22:29 |
| vipul | grapex: I think you need a minimum of 2 +2's | 22:29 |
| spiffxp | 2 +2 | 22:29 |
| hub_cap | can that be done? can we change that "rule" for our project? | 22:29 |
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| jcooley | it turns out they are in layers, we can have at least one +2 or do we want 2 x +2? | 22:29 |
| vipul | I propose 2 x +2's | 22:29 |
| hub_cap | vipul: i think thats not enough tho | 22:29 |
| vipul | and mordred did mention that this is configurable | 22:30 |
| hub_cap | cuz grapex and i could easily shuffle code past you :) | 22:30 |
| jcooley | i think that makes sense. 2 x +2 | 22:30 |
| hub_cap | if we have 3*+2 it woudl require someone from both companies reviewing | 22:30 |
| grapex | hub_cap: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. We could inadvertently both look at something and merge it. | 22:30 |
| rnirmal | hub_cap: I don't think it requires 2 +2 | 22:30 |
| hub_cap | yes grapex. i think until we have a larger team and better rules around blueprints/bugs/ci etc... | 22:30 |
| rnirmal | one +2 and +1 approve | 22:30 |
| hub_cap | rnirmal: you are correct thats how it works now | 22:31 |
| rnirmal | you could always have more as a rule | 22:31 |
| hub_cap | id prefer 3 core members need to review it | 22:31 |
| vipul | hmm, good point, just don't want things to be stacked up pending reviews.. | 22:31 |
| hub_cap | vipul: lets cross that bridge when we come to it | 22:31 |
| spiffxp | ditto, I am concerned emphasis on +2 downplays +1 participation | 22:31 |
| jcooley | rnirmal, yep those are the default rules. | 22:31 |
| yidclare | yeah, requiring 3 +2 essentially means the entire core team needs to be reviewing every single commit | 22:32 |
| hub_cap | yidclare: there are 4 of us now :) | 22:32 |
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| hub_cap | so its 3/4 of the core team | 22:32 |
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| vipul | no 2 must go on vacay at the same time :) | 22:32 |
| hub_cap | vipul: ;) im on vaca right now dude | 22:32 |
| SlickNik | lol | 22:33 |
| jcooley | all i worry about is that 3 x +2 means 3/4s of the core team needs to approve. | 22:33 |
| grapex | What about if instead of three mandatory +2's, we just have a total of 6. That could be one core and four other members. | 22:33 |
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| spiffxp | I think 2 +2 would be better for now while we work on getting folks onboarded through the gerrit process | 22:33 |
| jcooley | since we're moving pretty fast, that might slow down changes. if folks are cool with that... | 22:33 |
| hub_cap | well i dont think speed should be our only motivation | 22:33 |
| vipul | we could do a hybrid approach like grapex suggests | 22:33 |
| hub_cap | i think our motiviation should be participation from both teams | 22:34 |
| SlickNik | I'd prefer a quicker number. | 22:34 |
| SlickNik | I like grapex's ideas as well. | 22:34 |
| hub_cap | if you guys just push stuff all day long then we will feel like we dont have any skin in the game | 22:34 |
| hub_cap | and verse visa | 22:34 |
| jcooley | standard core rules are 2 x +2 and no concern for how many +1s. | 22:34 |
| juice | based on what we were told yesterday these numbers are not additive | 22:34 |
| yidclare | I second spiffxp - 2 +2's and try to informally makes sure someone from each group sees it | 22:34 |
| jcooley | 2 x +1 doesn't equal +2 by the way. | 22:34 |
| jcooley | 4 x +1 doesn't equal 2 x +2 either. | 22:35 |
| hub_cap | so lets do this, add a reviewer from the other company in your gerrit review | 22:35 |
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| juice | that was what I was trying say - thanks for the examples jcooley | 22:35 |
| vipul | hub_cap, that works | 22:35 |
| jcooley | excellent! | 22:35 |
| juice | #agreed | 22:35 |
| SlickNik | That works as well. | 22:36 |
| hub_cap | ok so now the question | 22:36 |
| hub_cap | do we know for sure that the group has been changed in gerrit? | 22:36 |
| vipul | hub_cap, it has not yet | 22:36 |
| spiffxp | which group? | 22:36 |
| hub_cap | the one i just added u to spiffxp | 22:36 |
| hub_cap | #link https://launchpad.net/~reddwarf-core | 22:36 |
| hub_cap | :) | 22:36 |
| hub_cap | ok who is gonna pester mordred then? | 22:37 |
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| hub_cap | to change from -drivers to -core for the +2s | 22:37 |
| vipul | #action Vipul to follow up on reddwarf-core with mordred | 22:37 |
| jcooley | i'll do it. | 22:37 |
| hub_cap | <3 | 22:37 |
| jcooley | he's sitting next to me :) | 22:37 |
| hub_cap | feedback loop is very small | 22:37 |
| hub_cap | :D | 22:37 |
| vipul | #action jcooley to follow up for Vipul on reddwarf-core with mordred :) | 22:38 |
| SlickNik | lol,n00b question alert. who's mordred? | 22:38 |
| vipul | mordred is Monty | 22:38 |
| SlickNik | ohhh, gotcha | 22:38 |
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| hub_cap | #info make sure one of the other company (rax/hp) looks at each review (add a particular reviewer from core) | 22:38 |
| spiffxp | hub_cap: any chance vipuls could also be made an admin of reddwarf-core? | 22:38 |
| spiffxp | err… vipul that is | 22:38 |
| hub_cap | sure spiffxp | 22:39 |
| hub_cap | done | 22:39 |
| vipul | awesome | 22:39 |
| spiffxp | thx | 22:39 |
| hub_cap | now dont go adding people willy nilly ;) | 22:39 |
| hub_cap | ok moving on | 22:40 |
| vipul | just as an FYI, getting more people added to core team: | 22:40 |
| hub_cap | #topic Proper blueprinting/bug practices | 22:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Proper blueprinting/bug practices" | 22:40 | |
| vipul | argh | 22:40 |
| jcooley | i think we'll have to do the "make sure one of the other company (rax/hp) ..." by unformal convention. not sure they can inforce this in gerrit. | 22:40 |
| hub_cap | crap sry vipul go head | 22:40 |
| hub_cap | jcooley: its not enforcable | 22:40 |
| vipul | just goinig to say, it needs to be pushed through the mailing list | 22:40 |
| hub_cap | DEF | 22:40 |
| vipul | and needs some +1 | 22:40 |
| hub_cap | but its a convention now, we can fix it by having a ptl and doing proper launchpad bug/blueprinting | 22:40 |
| hub_cap | once we get to that ^ ^ we dont need any rules for who has to review | 22:41 |
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| hub_cap | whick gets to the next topic, does everyone know how to add bugs/blueprints and link them in commits? | 22:41 |
| juice | nope | 22:41 |
| jcooley | agreed. also we should be trying to do that -- but we missed the last openstack blueprint review period. | 22:41 |
| hub_cap | #action everyone to make sure that reviews are linked with bugs or blueprints | 22:41 |
| juice | it was discussed yesterday briefly | 22:42 |
| SlickNik | mordred said yesterday that we could just mention it in the commit message. | 22:42 |
| vipul | i thought it was just having the word 'blueprint xxx' | 22:42 |
| juice | something about putting bug anywhere in the comment | 22:42 |
| SlickNik | Yeah, I was under the same impression. | 22:42 |
| jcooley | yes, they have regex scanning | 22:42 |
| hub_cap | yup SlickNik you mention it in the commit | 22:42 |
| hub_cap | fixes lp#bugID | 22:42 |
| vipul | blueprint BLUEPRINT | 22:42 |
| vipul | bug ####### | 22:42 |
| SlickNik | "Bug #1234" or "Blueprint blah" | 22:42 |
| uvirtbot` | Launchpad bug 1234 in launchpad "Gina is an unmaintainable mess of command line options, environment variables and shell scripts" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1234 | 22:42 |
| vipul | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/GerritWorkflow | 22:43 |
| hub_cap | or Blueprint: blah, Blueprint-implemented: blah | 22:43 |
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| rnirmal | create your branch as bp/<blueprint short name> | 22:43 |
| hub_cap | thx vipul | 22:43 |
| rnirmal | can do the same for bugs bug/<bug id> | 22:43 |
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| vipul | rnirmal: good to know | 22:43 |
| rnirmal | also fixes <bug id> in the commit msg | 22:43 |
| rnirmal | and implements bp/<bp short name> | 22:43 |
| SlickNik | wow, there a bot in IRC that apparently brings it up as well. | 22:43 |
| SlickNik | Nice. | 22:43 |
| rnirmal | for blueprints | 22:43 |
| hub_cap | ya SlickNik cool eh? | 22:44 |
| hub_cap | good to know gina is an unmaintainable mess | 22:44 |
| rnirmal | #info http://wiki.openstack.org/GerritWorkflow | 22:44 |
| vipul | lol | 22:44 |
| hub_cap | lol double info | 22:44 |
| SlickNik | heh | 22:44 |
| hub_cap | ok any other question on that topic? | 22:44 |
| rnirmal | too bad was not paying attention :) | 22:45 |
| hub_cap | :P | 22:45 |
| SlickNik | you snooze, ya lose. | 22:45 |
| spiffxp | hub_cap: yeah, one more Q | 22:45 |
| hub_cap | ok i had roadmap on the chopping block next but im not sure that a meeting would be best for that, lets skip to the heated topic | 22:46 |
| hub_cap | #topic PTL? | 22:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTL?" | 22:46 | |
| hub_cap | so, 1) do we need one now? | 22:46 |
| hub_cap | if yes, 2) who? | 22:46 |
| juice | PTL? | 22:46 |
| hub_cap | project technical lead juice | 22:47 |
| vipul | I was under the impression PTLs are chosen after Incubation? | 22:47 |
| hub_cap | are they? cool then we can skip it for now | 22:47 |
| hub_cap | #info not now, wait for more participation and incubation | 22:47 |
| hub_cap | good by everyone? | 22:48 |
| SlickNik | Sounds good to me. | 22:48 |
| vipul | at least we don't need an official one... is my understanding | 22:48 |
| jcooley | good | 22:48 |
| hub_cap | cool we know vipul and i are the technical leads for the projects so we will do our best to discuss things between the teams | 22:48 |
| hub_cap | sound good vipul? | 22:48 |
| vipul | yep, works | 22:48 |
| hub_cap | #info vipul and hub_cap to keep communication open between hp/rax | 22:49 |
| jcooley | again: good :) | 22:49 |
| hub_cap | :) | 22:49 |
| hub_cap | ok now the end of the meeting, ... | 22:49 |
| hub_cap | #topic Open discussion | 22:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion" | 22:49 | |
| hub_cap | does anyone have anything that was not discussed on the meeting we shoudl bring up or make sure we bring up nxt wk? | 22:49 |
| vipul | any update on getting reddwarf-integration to stackforge? | 22:49 |
| hub_cap | vipul: i think soneone mentioned that earlier? but they called it redstack | 22:50 |
| hub_cap | and there is a action item for grapex to do that | 22:50 |
| grapex | vipul: I talked to clarkb about it yesterday. Apparently its almost in, but mordred is using it as a guinea pig for a new way of putting projects into StackForge. | 22:50 |
| grapex | That's probably fine, for now. | 22:50 |
| vipul | grapex: thanks | 22:50 |
| grapex | To me, a bigger issue is that 1. the public version of RedStack and the RDLI tests have some bugs that have crept in, and 2. we're not running anything in CI atm. | 22:51 |
| hub_cap | #info there is likely a decent bit of work to make rdli (reddwarf-integration) work for the public project | 22:51 |
| grapex | I have a few ideas on that. | 22:51 |
| hub_cap | #info we _need_ _need_ _need_ some CI soon | 22:51 |
| hub_cap | #action grapex to own CI and make sure it gets accomplished | 22:51 |
| vipul | hub_cap, grapex: are you may have been following, we're having some issues with redstack -- anything (like disable boot from volume) we shoudl be aware of | 22:51 |
| grapex | I think it would be possible to get at least all the fake mode stuff working on a publicly accessible Jenkins node soon. That way we could at least plug into the Gerrit stream and gate on it. | 22:51 |
| hub_cap | vipul: lets talk them out in irc, im sure there are cobwebs in the public code that we dont know about | 22:52 |
| hub_cap | my focus (mainly after i get back to work) is to work on the public openstack codebase | 22:52 |
| hub_cap | as opposed to anything internal / feature driven by rax :) | 22:52 |
| spiffxp | we have a bunch of folks looking to do their first commit for reddwarf, should we just use dummy bugs to add TODO's, or is there low hanging fruit we could go after? | 22:53 |
| hub_cap | so ill be able to help a lot and devote a decent ammt of time to helping yall out | 22:53 |
| hub_cap | spiffxp: sure just add/remove the TODO that was pushed earlier | 22:53 |
| spiffxp | k | 22:53 |
| hub_cap | #info we need to integrate the client in to stackforge as well | 22:54 |
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| hub_cap | who wants to own that? | 22:54 |
| vipul | hub_cap, it's already in stackforge | 22:54 |
| hub_cap | oh it is!?! | 22:54 |
| vipul | yes | 22:54 |
| hub_cap | NICE | 22:54 |
| hub_cap | #info hub_cap is a moron, its already there | 22:54 |
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| hub_cap | that was easy :) | 22:55 |
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| rnirmal | hub_cap: nice to know :P | 22:55 |
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| hub_cap | #action hub_cap make sure the client launchpad page is up to date w/ the series like the reddwarf one | 22:55 |
| jcooley | we've also been talking with mordred about the road to getting this in openstack CI | 22:55 |
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| vipul | I believe a couple of patches went through as well | 22:55 |
| mordred | yes - had a great chat with vipul and jcooley yesterday | 22:56 |
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| mordred | I think I understand redstack and reddwarf_integration better now, and am thrilled | 22:56 |
| jcooley | hub_cap: folks here @ hp are now working on tip/reference implementation instead of some internal HP-y thing | 22:56 |
| hub_cap | mordred: sweet!! | 22:56 |
| hub_cap | jcooley: VERY SWEET!! | 22:56 |
| hub_cap | id like to get our team there soon too jcooley | 22:56 |
| mordred | hub_cap: I want you to talk to lifeless or devananda at some point about getting your image creation to use the stuff they're working on | 22:57 |
| jcooley | very cool, i think we're aligned | 22:57 |
| mordred | in redstack | 22:57 |
| grapex | Awesome. | 22:57 |
| hub_cap | mordred: fine by me sir. | 22:57 |
| lifeless | hub_cap: hi | 22:57 |
| hub_cap | #action hub_cap talk to lifeless or devananda about the image creation | 22:57 |
| hub_cap | lifeless: howdy | 22:57 |
| lifeless | I need to run up the street for ~ 15m, after that I'll be around again | 22:57 |
| hub_cap | lifeless: i wont be ;) | 22:57 |
| hub_cap | #info hub_cap is on paternity leave for 2 more weeks and will be sparse | 22:58 |
| hub_cap | im on paternity leave lifeless ill hit u up via email | 22:58 |
| clarkb | grapex: I really really want to merge the change today. That will allow you to propose a dependent change that creates your new project | 22:58 |
| clarkb | grapex: I am actively working on that change now. | 22:58 |
| grapex | clarkb: Sounds interesting. Let's talk in #reddwarf soon. | 22:58 |
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| lifeless | hub_cap: cool - rbtcollins <at> hp dot com | 22:59 |
| hub_cap | ok so we are at 1 hr not sure if there is another group after but lets try to wrap up | 22:59 |
| hub_cap | lifeless: aye | 22:59 |
| *** joeCruz is now known as jcru | 22:59 | |
| jcooley | indeed. think we got a lot accomplished. | 22:59 |
| yidclare | thanks for moderating, hub_cap | 23:00 |
| hub_cap | yup very good meeting indeed | 23:00 |
| vipul | good start :) | 23:00 |
| hub_cap | yidclare: np! | 23:00 |
| spiffxp | ya thx hub_cap | 23:00 |
| hub_cap | vipul: thx for getting the ball rolling on the ML too!! | 23:00 |
| SlickNik | Sweet, thanks all. | 23:00 |
| jcooley | thx folks! look forward to working with you guys closer. | 23:00 |
| vipul | hub_cap: np | 23:00 |
| hub_cap | def. we are a team now for real! | 23:01 |
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| vipul | fo sho | 23:01 |
| hub_cap | ok if no one has anythign else to chat about im gonna end meeting | 23:01 |
| juice | thumbs up | 23:01 |
| grapex | Awesome work guys. :) | 23:01 |
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| hub_cap | #endmeeting | 23:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 23:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 13 23:01:54 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/reddwarf/2012/reddwarf.2012-11-13-22.02.html | 23:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/reddwarf/2012/reddwarf.2012-11-13-22.02.txt | 23:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/reddwarf/2012/reddwarf.2012-11-13-22.02.log.html | 23:01 |
| hub_cap | ok now we get to see how ugly the meeting notes are!!!! | 23:02 |
| vipul | hah | 23:02 |
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| juice | that's some neat stuff | 23:03 |
| rnirmal | doesn't look all that bad | 23:03 |
| rnirmal | and great job for a first meeting | 23:03 |
| juice | best meeting secretary I have met | 23:03 |
| hub_cap | lol :) | 23:03 |
| hub_cap | ya we did aight. go team venture | 23:04 |
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