Thursday, 2012-11-15

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nijaba#startmeeting Ceilometer15:00
nijaba#meetingtopic Ceilometer15:00
nijaba#chair nijaba15:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov 15 15:00:07 2012 UTC.  The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:00
openstackCurrent chairs: nijaba15:00
nijabaHello everyone! Show of hands, who is around for the ceilometer meeting?15:00
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dhellmannick dhellmann15:00
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* dhellmann needs more caffine15:00
nijaba#topic actions from previous meeting15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:01
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nijaba#topic dhellmann update versioning in ceilometer repo to match openstack standards15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann update versioning in ceilometer repo to match openstack standards (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:01
dhellmannthe versioning work is done15:01
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nijabanice!  thanks a lot.15:02
dhellmannthere's some sort of issue with the version number in the build, which I have on my list to fix15:02
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nijabaok.  no need to track this as an action?15:02
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dhellmannI don't think so15:03
timjrhowdy cowpokes :)15:03
nijaba#topic jd__ and nijaba to start preparing a video demo of ceilometer15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "jd__ and nijaba to start preparing a video demo of ceilometer (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:03
nijabano real progress there this week.  re assigning for next week.15:03
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nijaba#topic jd__ and nijaba to start preparing a video demo of ceilometer15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "jd__ and nijaba to start preparing a video demo of ceilometer (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:03
nijaba#action jd__ and nijaba to start preparing a video demo of ceilometer15:03
nijabathat's better :)15:03
nijaba#topic eglynn to writup a nova integration proposal to be discussed next week15:04
*** openstack changes topic to "eglynn to writup a nova integration proposal to be discussed next week (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:04
eglynnthe discussion with the nova folks is still ongoing, summarized here ...15:04
nijabaso we saw eglynn's message on the ml15:04
timjrI'll probably be submitting a metrics patch in a week or two...15:04
nijabalooks like nothing has been agreed on yet15:04
timjrbut I'm not handling the billing use case at present15:05
eglynnTL;DR: lots of options, but definite push-back on the nova-compute RPC idea15:05
nijabahow do we get this to converge?15:05
eglynn(i.e. this is considered a private API)15:05
eglynnnijaba: a couple of the live options need buy-in fromt he nova folks15:05
eglynnif I don't get a response on the ML today, I'll bring it up at their weekly meeting this evening15:06
timjrthis is the library I'll be using:
jd__and so far the only option that nova is ready to adopt is #115:06
nijabawould us putting this as a topic in a nova irc meeting help?15:06
timjrI'd love to talk with you guys about additional use cases (like billing) or improvements to it15:06
nijabawe need to converge sooner than later on this15:06
eglynnnijaba: I can propose this to vishy15:06
eglynnagreed, lets push for a quick agreemnt on the way forward15:06
nijabasounds good.  any other suggestions?15:06
jd__timjr: sure, could you bring this back at the end of the meeting during open discussion?15:06
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timjrjd__:  sure thing15:07
jd__timjr: thanks :)15:07
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jd__nijaba: I think eglynn summarized everything well :)15:07
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nijabaeglynn: do you want to action yourself for the nova irc meeting?15:08
eglynn#action eglynn propose agent item on ceilo interaction for nova IRC meeting15:08
nijabathanks eglynn15:08
nijaba#topic nijaba to send an invite to fill the survey15:09
*** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to send an invite to fill the survey (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:09
nijabaI had to fight a bit with survey monkey, but the survey is now finaly out.15:09
nijaba15 responses so far.  we'll let it run until next meeting?15:09
dhellmannthat sounds like a good idea15:09
dhellmannshould be plenty of time15:09
nijabasandywalsh_: commented that the "features" were not clear enough for people outside the project15:10
eglynnyep, that's reasonable15:10
nijabaI think he is right15:10
nijabaso, I'll make a note for next cylce15:10
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nijaba#action nijaba to close survey and publish result prior to next meeting15:11
nijabacould also be useful :)15:11
nijaba#topic asalkeld investigate diamond for use to generate stats15:11
*** openstack changes topic to "asalkeld investigate diamond for use to generate stats (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:11
nijabaI am afraid asalkeld is asleep15:11
eglynnyep, its his off-week15:11
nijabaanyone has comments on this topic?  or should we reaction for next week?15:12
jd__i'd say re-action15:12
nijaba#action asalkeld investigate diamond for use to generate stats15:12
nijabaThat's all for last week's action, moving on...15:12
nijaba#topic Discuss synaps integration15:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss synaps integration (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:12
nijabaeglynn: I think you had some interations with synaps folks, right?15:13
eglynnthe Synaps folks are continuing their internal discussion, so no definite conclusion as yet15:13
eglynnbut they are actively considering the idea15:13
nijabait seems that they agree on using ceilometer, but not yet to fullyn join the project?15:13
eglynnI would say it'll take another day or two to play out, but yeah edging towards a looser link-up15:14
nijabaanyone from synaps online?15:14
sandywalsh_eglynn: which specific part of using rpc is getting push back? The only thing I hear is using it for instrumentation.15:14
dhellmanneglynn: how much duplication of effort do you think that will produce?15:14
eglynnnijaba: bad time in their TZ15:14
nijabaeglynn: right...15:14
eglynnsandwalsh_ the idea of RPC being externally called (i.e. nova RPC message emitted by ceilo)15:15
dhellmanneglynn, nijaba: maybe we could arrange a separate meeting at a better time for them?15:15
eglynndhellmann: yes, that's a good idea15:15
nijabadhellmann: we should at least try15:15
sandywalsh_eglynn: oh, yeah, that would be unnecessary15:15
dhellmannat least to discuss15:15
nijabaeglynn: do you want to take the action, or do you want me to?15:15
eglynn#action eglynn propose IRC meetup with Synaps folks to discuss collaboration model15:16
nijabalet's move on then15:16
nijaba#topic Tarball generation15:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Tarball generation (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:16
nijabathat's a topic from the last project meeting on tue15:16
eglynnsandywalsh_ it one of the options discussed here for ceilo to retrieve nova diagnostics
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jd__was that a problem?15:17
nijabaeglynn gracfully replaced me as I was fighti with 3g and could not join (thanks!!)15:17
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timjrthe nova rpc mechanism is not a robust interface... if things other than nova are going to call it, I think it needs a lot of work15:18
sandywalsh_eglynn: I guess my fear is that ceilo is becoming a kitchen sink and losing focus. Yes, it could do diagnostics, but should it?15:18
* nijaba sense a topic drift...15:18
dhellmannyes, please, folks, let's stick with the agenda15:18
sandywalsh_eglynn: two summits ago its focus was clear: billing, but now it's all things to all people15:18
dhellmannnijaba: what exactly is the issue with the tarballs?15:18
eglynnthe actions from the project status meeting were ...  ceilometer crew to ask for a ceilometer-tarball job and pimp up their grizzly roadmap15:19
sandywalsh_timjr: agreed, nova rpc should only be used by nova15:19
jd__c'mon folks, be nice :)15:19
eglynni.e. ask the CI team to set up the ceilometer-tarball job15:19
nijabaeglynn: the last part being the next topic15:19
dhellmannwe have a tarball job:
dhellmannis that the wrong one?15:19
jd__yeah I think this has been resolved no?15:20
nijabanot sure. we should ask the infra team15:20
eglynndhellmann: I'm not sure, I guess I should clarify that with ttx and/or infra team15:20
nijabathat's from last tue15:20
nijabadhellmann: can you check with ttx/infra team?15:20
dhellmanneglynn: ok. it seems to be producing them with the correct version numbers now, too (maybe that was it?)15:20
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eglynndhellmann: yeah, could have been if that was only resolved after the Tue status meeting15:21
dhellmannnijaba: sure, I can send an email15:21
jd__log is there
dhellmanneglynn: yes, the version # change went in after that15:21
jd__I think we got this covered already15:21
nijabaI guess a simple "hey, I think I have done everything right, can you check" would be nice15:21
jd__but we can check15:21
dhellmann#action dhellmann to confirm with ttx that tarball job is correct15:21
jd__thanks dhellmann15:21
nijaba#topic Transforming roadmap items into blueprints15:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Transforming roadmap items into blueprints (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:22
nijabathat's another request from the project meeting15:22
ttxdhellmann: if it produces "ceilometer-2013.1.tar.gz" tarballs it's not using the right versioning algorithm.15:22
nijabaso I'll happily make sure we have a bp for each feature on the roadmap15:22
eglynnyep, so ttx primarily drives that meeting from the BP lists15:22
jd__makes sense, we just need volunteers I guess15:22
nijabaand try to assign implementor when I know that15:22
jd__nijaba: thanks!15:22
ttxshoud be now producing "ceilometer-2013.1~g2~20121115.234234.tar.gz" or something15:23
eglynncool, then the BPs can be further fleshed out with details by the assigneee15:23
dhellmannttx: ok, I'll ping you after the meeting to see if I can get better details about how to fix that15:23
nijaba#action nijaba to transform bp-less features into bp15:23
ttxdhellmann: sure. Might not even be on your side15:23
nijabaso I'll mark everyone that is high or medium as "approved"15:23
yjiang5nijaba: where can we get the roadmap?15:24
nijabaplease make sure that when you'll submit an implementation to mark "address bp #XXX" so that status is tracked15:24
nijabathanks eglynn15:24
nijabattx: how do you use bp from status tracking?15:25
nijabado you just look at the global bp status?15:25
nijabaor do you do something fancier?15:25
ttxnot really fancier. Mostly tracking implementation status15:26
ttxoh you mean do I use workitems ? no15:26
nijabayeah, I was wondering :)15:26
nijabattx: thanks for clarifying15:26
ttxpeople can't get the status right, so i didn't even try workitems15:26
nijaba#agreed ceilometer team to use bp to track status of features15:27
jd__like we had choice :)15:27
nijabaok, I think we ran out of agenda topic15:27
nijabajd__: lol15:27
anniec:) open discussion time?15:28
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nijaba#topic Open discussion15:28
timjrsorry for jumping in on you guys... I claim early morning brain15:28
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:28
jd__timjr: ;)15:28
sandywalsh_question: should I expect some feedback on my Unified Instrumentation and Metering proposal?
timjrsandywalsh_: I definitely thought the pictures were cool15:28
jd__better than nothing I guess15:29
eglynnsandywalsh_ I was using the "diagnostics" term loosely earlier15:29
eglynn(just to mean the kind of info that ceilo currently grabs from polling libvirt)15:29
shengjiehey guys, first time attending the meeting here, I want to get some feedback on my blueprint :
timjrso, I think we can meet most of yahoo's metrics needs with a 20-30 line patch to nova and smaller patches to the other components15:29
timjrI have a prototype working15:29
timjrso I think our stance is changing to one of, you guys can have our patch if you want it, but it's not gonna be that hard to maintain it in house either15:30
nijabashengjie: I think it should depend on the multi-publisher blueprint15:30
eglynntimjr: wanna submit those 20.-30 lines as a draft patch?15:30
anniecasalkeld was asking us on progress on metering15:30
anniecso repost tim's link earlier here:
timjrthat tomograph library,, is a custom-made lib that makes the patch small15:30
timjreglynn: definitely15:30
anniecsorry .. on monitoring i mean15:30
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timjrI wasn't sure... can people see the draft reviews?15:30
anniecasalkeld was asking us on progress on monitoring15:30
timjra friend was saying I might be better off publishing a regular review but -1'ing it15:31
shengjienijaba: how come?15:31
eglynntimjr: that would work too, and reach a wider audience15:31
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anniecif you guys can take look at the link of tomograph i just post, tim has a real nice screenshot on the trace graph and monitoring graph, it's kinda cool with small amount of patch to achieve our needs15:31
nijabashengjie: I assume you want to use Hbase in parallel to the current storage, am I wrong?15:32
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* eglynn looking15:32
sandywalsh_so, not sure what the answer here is ... we're going to maintain multiple notification consumers?15:32
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dhellmannshengjie: a Hbase backend sounds like a nice addition15:32
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nijabadhellmann: as a replaqcement storage engine, or as parallel storage?15:32
dhellmannnijaba: as an option15:33
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eglynninstead of mongodb, not as well as, presumably ...15:33
shengjiedhellmann: I guess given the nature of hbase, it might go parallel, i dunno yet.15:34
dhellmannthe idea with the storage plugin api was to let deployers choose a backend15:34
nijabadhellmann: as an option at the same leve as sqlalchemy or mongo?  ok15:34
nijabathen no need to depend and shengjie should go ahead with his impelmentation then?15:34
shengjiebecoz store users/projects in hbase seems like an overkill, storing meter data is definitely a good use case15:34
sandywalsh_hello? was my previous topic skipped?15:35
shengjiei can go ahead and start the implementation15:35
jd__nijaba: yeah hbase as a storage engine, nothing more :)15:35
dhellmannshengjie: a driver that talked to hbase could also talk to another backend for storing the user and project data15:35
timjrthe approach taking by twitter folks, and presumably facebook too, is to have everything send stuff to scribe and then let scribe deal with forwarding it to things like hbase... it's worth considering15:35
nijabaso. should I make it as direction "aproved"?15:35
jd__shengjie: did yousee  my reply on the list?15:35
anniecsandywalsh_ seems like no one is looking at timjr and mine link  either :P15:35
dhellmannsandywalsh_: we had a lot of cross-talk, let us catch up15:35
shengjiedhellmann: yes, that's more like it15:35
sandywalsh_anniec: seems to be a lot of that15:36
eglynnsandywalsh_ "we're going to maintain multiple notification consumers?" << not sure about the context on this15:36
jd__nijaba: ah yes, I only changed "definition" to approved15:36
dhellmannanniec & timjr : I'll look at the code, but can't read and follow the meeting at the same time15:36
sandywalsh_eglynn: my proposal15:36
nijabajd__, shengjie: approved!15:36
jd__great :)15:36
nijabaso, I propose we focus on sandywalsh_'s proposal now15:36
eglynnsandywalsh_ sorry yeah, I see the topic now15:36
sandywalsh_anniec: I'd love to see the patch tim has put together though15:37
shengjiethanks, guys, i think we are done with Hbase backend now15:37
timjryeah, I gotta clean it up a little first, but will post soon enough15:37
timjrI think people will really like the zipkin style tracing15:37
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timjrI had no idea that keystone's db backend was so screwy, for example15:37
annieci like it.  you got 115:37
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sandywalsh_timjr: I've been talking with lucy about how the two might work ... need to learn more about it15:37
sandywalsh_timjr: from cloudkick15:38
* sandywalsh_ searches for irc handle15:38
sandywalsh_timjr: my first blush concern was using REST for logging messages ... Loggly was unable to handle that volume15:39
timjrif you have debug logging on, it is indeed quite some volume15:39
sandywalsh_timjr: Lucy Mendel ... she was dealing with someone from Yahoo, thought it was you15:40
timjrI thought an elegant way to hook things like metrics, or ceilometer, up to nova was to just add a logging handler to the existing logging, and then maybe some more log messages15:40
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timjrthat way people that don't use it won't have to care in the least15:40
yjiang5sandywalsh_: if we have debugging logging, I'd suggest to seperate with other communication channel.15:40
timjrbut it is kind of a hack15:40
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sandywalsh_Consider my proposal in the ML thread this morning about notifiers having different handlers for different event types15:41
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sandywalsh_that would work and no major changes15:41
timjrnotifications, as they presently exist, are a little too high level for our use case15:42
timjrwe want to know about rpc latencies and such15:42
sandywalsh_but, again, we have the problem of instrumentation vs usage/stage ... which is what I need to understand from the ceilo team what the mandate is15:42
timjrbut the main thing I'm here for, actually, is to see if people are still interesting in unifying metering with monitoring at all15:42
sandywalsh_timjr: I'm currently working on rpc latencies in StackTach ... I have all the data in there now15:42
sandywalsh_timjr: likewise15:43
timjrfrom the nova point of view, I can imagine people want as few hooks as they can get away with15:43
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sandywalsh_timjr: my first approach was the Inflight Service, but now I know I can do it all with StackTach15:43
sandywalsh_timjr: +115:43
dhellmannsandywalsh_: I thought at the summit we agreed to work our way up from the bottom, so we're starting with sharing code for instrumentation, metering, monitoring, and publishing15:44
yjiang5sandywalsh_: where can I get your rpc latency data?15:44
sandywalsh_yjiang5: I'll be putting a branch to stacktach up early next week15:44
yjiang5sandywalsh_: thanks.15:44
sandywalsh_dhellmann: yes, which is why I wrote that proposal ...15:45
dhellmannsandywalsh_: yes, so what part of the mandate do you need clarified? :-)15:45
sandywalsh_dhellmann: to highlight the differing needs of instrumentation and monitoring/meterings/usage/etc15:45
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dhellmannwe never finished the work on use cases that we started the last day of the summit, maybe we should finish documenting those?15:46
sandywalsh_the proposal highlights that both requirements need different implementations and we shouldn't try to do both with one solution15:46
sandywalsh_this is an echo of the current thread on the ML15:46
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timjrI definitely think it would be cool to unify the metering and the monitoring/metrics stuff, but I don't think I know the metering use case well enough to do it myself15:47
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timjrI will leave it to you guys to tell me why my interface won't work :)15:47
sandywalsh_:) that's fair15:47
sandywalsh_timjr: if you want to chat offline after this meeting about my rpc latency idea, I'm free15:47
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timjrsandywalsh_: there's actually a dude working on zipkin tracing at rackspace15:48
timjrIRC nick dreid15:48
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sandywalsh_timjr: must be with lucy's group15:48
anniecwill be nice to find out who lucy's talking to at Yahoo15:48
sandywalsh_so, ceilo group ... look forward to some feedback on unifying the two requirements :)15:49
sandywalsh_anniec: I'll check my email after15:49
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nijabaok. looks like we have some actions and running out of exchanges?15:50
timjryep, out of exchanges :)  thanks for letting me crash the meeting15:50
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anniecwill be nice for this team to review sandywalsh_ and timjr 's proposal as action15:50
eglynnsandywalsh_ I'll try to respond to your mail on the list shortly15:51
anniecand give us some feedback15:51
nijabatimjr: open discussion is just meant for it!  feel free to add topics to the meeting agenda too next time15:51
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timjrnijaba: thanks15:51
sandywalsh_anniec: Lucy is in dreid's group and dreid was working with timjr :) haha15:51
sandywalsh_eglynn: thanks15:51
anniecgot it .. thanks!15:51
timjrby working with I guess he means we were on the zipkin IRC channel at the same time :)15:51
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dhellmannyes, please, give us some heads up when there's something to be reviewed before a meeting by putting it on the agenda!15:51
sandywalsh_timjr: quite likely15:52
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timjrdhellmann: I posted it in a rush last night :)15:52
dhellmanntimjr: np, then, just something to keep in mind :-)15:52
timjrdhellmann: please feel free to critique the code or whatever, I'd love to hear your opinion15:52
timjrI am still a bit of a python newb15:53
nijabaanything else (starting the 30 sec coundown)?15:53
nijabacountdown too...15:53
nijabaok. looks like we are done for today!15:53
nijabathanks everyone!15:53
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"15:54
openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov 15 15:54:01 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:54
openstackMinutes (text):
eglynnthanks all15:54
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dwalleckqa folks assemble?17:00
sdague<= here17:00
* dwalleck gets to be Iron Man17:00
dwalleckSorry, drunk on no sleep here :)17:01
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davidkranzShall we begin?17:02
sdaguedavidkranz: go for it17:02
jaypipes#startmeeting qa17:03
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov 15 17:03:08 2012 UTC.  The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:03
davidkranz#startmeeting qa17:03
openstackdavidkranz: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.17:03
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davidkranzShould we go with the agenda I posted, or is there anything else to add?17:03
jaypipesdavidkranz: nothing from me.17:04
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sdaguedavidkranz: I think the agenda looks good17:04
dwalleckthe posted agenda looks good17:04
sdaguethe rest we can do in open discussion if things come up17:04
davidkranzLet's start with the small ones.17:04
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davidkranzI got zero response to the message about getting dev help to review significant new api tests.17:05
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sdaguedavidkranz: are these existing reviews?17:05
davidkranzThe one in the agenda has been sitting in the queue.17:05
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davidkranzIs any one in our group swifty enough to review it?17:06
sdagueoh, the swift reviews17:06
davidkranzTHe last patch grew it significantly.17:06
ravkumar_hp ?17:06
sdagueI honestly don't know anything about swift17:06
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sdague#topic swift tempest tests need review17:06
ravkumar_hpdavidkrnz: we will test it out and review
davidkranzravkumar_hp: Thanks! That is great.17:07
ravkumar_hpwe need to have theste tests in as those are critical for gating17:07
davidkranz#topic Full tempest gate17:07
sdagueso the way we've been handling this is devstack is that we ask devs from the team to provide reviews17:07
dwalleckI'm swiftly enough also, can take a look. I saw some comments from jaypipes, hadn't seen if those had already been addressed17:07
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sdagueand if they +1 it enough then we take the word at it17:08
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jaypipessdague: we've already asked notmyname and he gave a review on it, but no followup review IIRC.17:08
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sdagueok, I'll take a look at the review as well.17:09
davidkranzSo that will move forward now. We can ask a specific question if we have it.17:09
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davidkranzWhere do we stand on getting an "acceptance test" for swift up?17:10
davidkranznotmyname was very interested in that.17:10
ravkumar_hp  once checked in can be acceptance tests . right?17:11
davidkranzravkumar_hp: Yes, part of one.17:11
davidkranzHe was referring to a complete test that would be run to say that swift upstream was ready to be released.17:11
davidkranzThat would not be a gate test.17:12
sdaguedavidkranz: honestly, I think that's probably something that needs to go back on the swift team17:12
davidkranzUntil recently it was basically RAX qa that performed that function.17:13
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davidkranzsdague: Yes, you are right.17:13
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davidkranzAbout the full tempest gate.17:13
ravkumar_hpdavidkranz: from hp , we will add some tests once the current one review is finished17:13
sdagueso, tempest full gate....17:14
davidkranzravkumar_hp: Cool.17:14
davidkranzI added an hourly run with email to me.17:14
jose-raxwe still run those tests, as well as new ones for features as they come down the pipe.  cors headers for instance.17:14
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jaypipesjose-rax: which tests do you run?17:14
davidkranzjose-rax: I know. We wanted tests out in the open that are acceptance tests.17:15
sdaguealso +117:15
jose-raxpretty much everything17:16
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jaypipesjose-rax: I'm still not clear... everything that is in tempest, or something else?17:16
davidkranzjose-rax: Gigi said at the summit that you guys were going to put the tests up so we could cooperate on maintaining/improving them.17:16
jaypipesRick_RS: heyo17:16
sdagueso full tempest gate... :) has there been any progress there? a couple of folks on my team are going to get some cycles in the next couple weeks, so I was going to point them in that direction.17:17
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sdaguebut I don't want to be duping anyone else's work17:17
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jaypipessdague: davidkranz mentioned above that there is now an hourly full run that emails him on failures17:17
Rick_RSjaypipes: hello17:17
davidkranzsdague: All we need are no flakies and acceptable run time.17:17
davidkranzThere are no more volume failures as of yesterday.17:17
dwallecksdague: depends on what you mean by full tempest gate. I'm opening blueprints for everything myself and my guys are working on17:17
sdaguedwalleck: cool17:18
jaypipesdavidkranz: good. those were the ones that were consistently hitting me locally.17:18
sdaguedavidkranz: great.17:18
sdaguedavidkranz: what's the run time clocking in at now?17:18
davidkranzjaypipes: There is still a server build flaky tha sdague is looking at.17:18
dwalleckwhich is admin tests, benchmarking/combining tests, and adding a benchmarking suite17:18
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sdaguedwalleck: ok, cool. If you carve those off in interesting ways we can probably get some more hands on it.17:19
davidkranzsdague: About 25 minutes for full tempest without smoke.17:19
sdaguedavidkranz: oh, that's not too bad17:19
davidkranzsmoke is another 6 minutes17:20
dwalleckIt's actually mostly done, just waiting for approvals (for admin tests at least). These are things we already have, just trying to get them submitted17:20
davidkranzIf we could parallelize we would run much faster with room to spare for more tests17:20
jaypipesdwalleck: did you follow my response about the policy.json determining the "adminness" of API calls? :)17:20
davidkranzdwalleck: Great!17:20
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davidkranzLet's finish Daryl's thread before moving on.17:20
sdaguedavidkranz: so I was kicking around an idea with mtreinish earlier about injecting log messages into nova when tests start / stop. One of the problems in looking through those logs with stack traces is having no idea what triggered them17:21
dwalleckjaypipes: I do, and for now we can go with your suggestion. I'd like to revist it later to make things more flexible, but it'll work for now17:21
sdaguedwalleck: cool, so best guess on when we'd see these things in the review queue?17:21
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davidkranzsdague: Yeah. More instrumentation will likely be needed.17:22
sam-raxdavidkranz: we rely on the tempest swift tests for gating into our pipeline, however we have an exhaustive body of tests that are directed specifically at a deployed version of swift, not a devstack instance.17:22
dwallecknext week is thanksgiving so that makes things a bit weird, but certainly by the meeting the week afterwards17:22
sdaguedwalleck: cool, sounds great17:22
davidkranzsam-rax: We discussed this at the configuration testing session.17:22
Rick_RSdavidkranz: in regards to Gigi's commitment to putting the tests out in the community, we are working on it.  We are in the process of doing some cleanup before we put them out there.17:23
davidkranzsam-rax: We just need a way to report the results of those tests back17:23
davidkranzRick_RS: Great. We just wanted to get an idea of where things were because notmyname was asking about it.17:24
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davidkranz#topic parallel tempest17:24
davidkranzIs any one working on this yet?17:24
dwalleckI haven't had much luck with testtools at the moment17:25
dwalleckTinkering with just simply using eventlet, have a bit more success there17:25
sdaguedwalleck: what were the testtools issues?17:26
davidkranzdwalleck: At this point we just need something that works.17:26
dwalleckBut I thought others were working on a demo of what testtools would look like?17:26
ravkumar_hpdwalleck: that is nosetests using evenlet?17:26
dwalleckNo, just using raw unittest with eventlet17:26
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sdaguedwalleck: ok, so that's something I can have a couple folks look at soon.17:28
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ravkumar_hpdwalleck: does existing temptest tests need lot ot rework to use with eventlet?17:28
dwalleckravkumar_hp: Not really. Regardless of what we do, we're going to have to remove our dependencies on Nose at some point17:29
dwalleckwhich is mostly skip decorators, tags, etc17:29
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sdagueso mordred has been looking at converting nova over to non nose, I wonder what insights he has there.17:30
notmyname(sorry, just got back online) sam-rax: jose-rax: what would it take to get to get your swift-specific tests more open so that others can run them?17:31
jaypipeswhat testtools, testr (testrepository) gives us is more than parallel testing. It gives us ways to record previous test runs and timings as well as do regression testing locally...17:31
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dwalleckjaypipes: What type of timing does it provide? Per test timings? per request?17:32
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jaypipesper test17:33
sdaguejaypipes: ok, so probably makes sense to do a port to testtools / testr regardless to see how that goes, even if there might be other approaches17:33
jose-raxnotmyname: The idea is that they'll be part of what we put out there after we finish cleaning this stuff up.17:33
sam-raxnotmyname: We are in the process of making things cleaner, removing some rax specific things (like billing, etc...) and ready to provide to the community17:33
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jaypipessdague: yes, I gave a shot at it about 2 weeks ago but ran into issues and never got the time to email lifeless about them.17:33
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notmynamejose-rax: sam-rax: cool. I'd love to see them. been waiting for a while ;-)17:34
sdaguejaypipes: well if you have work in progress, let me know.17:34
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jaypipessdague: will do.17:34
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davidkranzAnything else on the previous topics?17:35
mordredsdague: hey17:35
davidkranzWhen th hourly run goes two days without failure we can decide whether to put in the full gate at 25 minutes.17:36
mordredsdague: yes - testtools/testr/fixtures/subunit toolchain is pretty often17:36
notmynamejose-rax: sam-rax: (we can take this to another channel if you want) what can I do to help facilitate getting the tests out?17:36
davidkranzThere are also easily 5 minutes of slow tests that could be turned off for most projects.17:36
mordreddwalleck: let me know if I can be helpful17:36
Rick_RSnotmyname: we are executing on a plan to expedite this.  we can talk some more off-line if you like.17:38
dwalleckdavidkranz: "turn off" is a bit of a worrysome term. If it came to that, I think creating a secondary, non-gating job might be helpful17:38
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notmynameRick_RS: awesome. or in IRC. whatever is more convenient for you17:38
davidkranzdwalleck: There is already the hourly, and nightly job.17:38
davidkranzI just meant that some of the expensive server action scenarios could just be run on nova, for example.17:39
davidkranzAnd the periodic runs of course.17:39
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davidkranzThe last topic was the status of the blueprints.17:40
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Rick_RSnotmyname: we can do a f2f if you want.  I sit in the compute area.17:40
notmynameRick_RS: I sit in San Francisco ;-)17:41
* jaypipes buys Rick_RS a plane ticket out to SFO ;)17:42
sam-raxnotmyname: I have some open QE SDT reqs on my team if you want. :-D17:42
Rick_RSnotmyname; duh... I'll send you some information later.17:42
sam-raxnotmyname: But seriously, what Rick_RS said, we can chat later offline if you want, but we honestly are working on it, just need to extricate some things and clean it up properly before sharing.....17:42
notmynameok, cool. I'm really happy to hear that. please let me know how I can help. It's a huge need for others in the swift community17:43
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davidkranzsdague: I think the blueprints cover what we discussed at the summit.17:43
sdaguedavidkranz: you want to take a pass at prioritizing them, and putting targets on them?17:44
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davidkranzWe should take up with the ci group the issue of coordinating status of real-cluster testing out side of jenkins.17:45
davidkranzsdague: OK, I will do that. Do you mean targets like Grizzly-1, etc?17:45
sdaguedavidkranz: agreed, but that's just one of them, and I honestly think that it's lower priority than a lot of the others17:45
sdaguedavidkranz: yeh, it might be nice to give ourselves goals that line up with the milestones17:46
sdaguedavidkranz: what group can modify those fields?17:46
davidkranzsdague: OK, but it doesn't make sense to give a target unless there is also an assignee :)17:46
sdaguedavidkranz: agreed17:46
sam-rax+1 that. :-)17:46
davidkranzsdague: I presume tempest administrators?17:46
sdaguepriority can be set without an assignee though17:46
jaypipesdavidkranz: tempest-drivers17:47
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davidkranzsdague: Sure.17:47
sdagueand maybe incent folks to take a look at some of them :)17:47
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jaypipesdavidkranz: you are an admin so feel free to give others admin access if you want17:47
jaypipessdague: none of us are innocent.17:47
* jaypipes snickers17:47
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sdaguejaypipes: :P17:47
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davidkranzsdague: I'll add you.17:48
sdaguedavidkranz: cool17:48
* jaypipes would like to help more if he wasn't waist-deep in writing Chef Spec tests :(17:48
davidkranzAnything else?17:49
jaypipesnot from me17:50
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davidkranzCounting 30 seconds.17:50
sdagueI'm good17:50
longshot40 seconds turkish17:51
jose-rax50 seconds turkish17:51
davidkranzjaypipes: I guess you can end the meeting.17:51
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"17:51
openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov 15 17:51:52 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:51
openstackMinutes (text):
sdaguedavidkranz: it's actually sdague-b not sdague, that's my other id17:52
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sdagueif you can drop sdague and add sdague-b that would be great17:52
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jaypipessdague: lol, yeah, your "other" id...17:52
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sdaguejaypipes: yeh, it was supposed to make things simpler :)17:52
davidkranzsdague: You can do it yourself now :)17:53
sdaguedavidkranz: oh, true17:53
jaypipesbest laid plans and all that.. ;)17:53
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sdaguedavidkranz: actually, not an admin, so unless you make me one I can't :)17:56
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mordredadmin of?20:21
* mordred might be an admin ...20:21
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* dansmith watches a tumbleweed roll by21:02
* sdague yells boo!21:02
russellbvishy: ping21:04
vishyrussellb: want to lead this one?21:04
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russellb#startmeeting nova21:04
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov 15 21:04:42 2012 UTC.  The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:04
russellbThere's the agenda ... who's here?21:05
alexpilottihi huys21:05
dansmith<-- here in body, at least21:05
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* jog0 says hi21:05
russellbcomstud: here?  cells on deck first21:05
sdague<-- here21:05
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* devananda waves21:06
russellbk, we'll skip cells and wait for comstud21:06
russellb#topic state of the baremetal driver21:06
*** openstack changes topic to "state of the baremetal driver"21:06
russellbdevananda: hey, want to give an update on this one?21:06
devanandarussellb: sure21:06
russellbcomstud: no problem, we'll do cells next21:06
devanandatwo more patches landed last night, total of 3 now21:06
devanandathere are two more large-ish ones, and a few tiny ones, left21:07
devanandabig one is replacing the baremetal driver code21:07
devanandaafter that is adding the pxe functionality to it21:07
devanandameanwhile i've also been working on devstack integration21:07
devanandaand formulating a plan with the CI team for how to get it all going21:07
devanandato be shared shortly with the dev list (waiting on approval from the NTT guys)21:08
russellbhas there been much feedback on the next big one?21:08
devanandalittle to none21:08
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vishythe big one is a little tough because there aren't any real users of the old baremetal code21:09
russellb#help need reviews on the next big baremetal driver patch21:09
vishyso it is hard to say if it is breaking anything21:09
russellbvishy: so shouldn't have qualms about removing it if nobody uses it ...21:09
russellbcould do a post on openstack@ just in case21:09
vishybut perhaps breakage doesn't matter for that reason21:09
russellbat least we'd have something to point to and say "well, we tried to see if it mattered ..."21:09
russellbwe can also clearly define it in release notes21:09
devanandavishy: i can at least say that the _new_ code works :)21:09
vishyyes i propose a quick message to openstack-operators21:09
vishyand/or openstack21:09
russellbgreat, who's going to send the message?21:10
vishyand reviews can stick to style / code-smell21:10
rmkI dont even think the old baremetal code works21:10
vishymy guess is that it doesn't21:10
rmkit cant work, we pass args from compute it into it that it cant accept21:10
devanandavishy: i haven't heard anyone say anything about the ol code working21:10
russellbdevananda: you good for putting out a post just making sure nobody freaks out that we rip out the old stuff?21:10
russellbwell if it's that bad ... i guess no message needed21:10
devanandarussellb: sure. destinations are just openstack@ and openstack-operators@ ?21:11
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russellba message still wouldn't hurt21:11
rmkI know this because we didn't update it a number of times when we changed driver calls for everything else21:11
russellbwant to show the ops that we care about them :-)21:11
rmkmessage is always good but I'd say its very safe to rip it out21:11
dansmithrmk: I updated it for no-db-virt :)21:11
russellb#action devananda to post to openstack/openstack-operators about removing old baremetal code, just to make sure everyone is good with it21:11
russellbalright, anything else on baremetal?  lots of movement since last week.21:12
devanandathat was the high level stuff21:12
rmkdansmith: cool -- do you know if all the entry points from compute match the required number of args?  Unless someone changed it recently I dont think it does21:12
russellbyeah, anything deeper we should hit on the -dev list21:12
dansmithrmk: no idea, but the tests seem to run21:12
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russellbdevananda: just want to hit status here to make sure it keeps moving21:13
russellbalright, let's talk cells!21:13
russellb#topic cells status21:13
*** openstack changes topic to "cells status"21:13
russellbcomstud: you're up21:13
comstudi spent a number of days breaking out the scheduling filter/weighting into code that was currently somewhat shared with the host scheduler.  all of the base stuff landed including the host scheduler changes and new weighting plugin stuff21:14
comstudcells has been rebased against that stuff that landed (master, really)...21:14
comstudi broke out the filtering/weighting scheduler stuff in cells into its own review21:14
comstudall of this lowers the main review down to < 4000 lines now (still large)21:14
comstudanyway... was in rebase hell for a while with all of the FLAGS -> CONF changes...21:14
comstudbut I addressed a number of comments in the initial feedback21:14
comstudand those reviews are up21:15
comstudnext is... trying to clarify some of the basic routing stuff.21:15
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comstudand seeing if I can make the code make more sense there21:15
comstudw/ better doc strings21:15
russellbyeah, that would help me :)21:15
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russellbcode seems sane, but docstrings, and some overview on how the routing works would be useful for folks diving into it21:15
russellb#action russellb to do another pass on reviewing the updated cells patches21:16
comstudI think I've thought of a way to clean it up21:16
russellbwe're going to need at least one other person to do a deep dive into nova-cells to get these reviews done21:16
comstudthen it becomes more obvious even without docstrings, but we'll see21:16
zykes-how's cells with quantum integration btw?21:16
comstudcells works with a global quantum21:16
comstudand individual nova-network's in each cell21:16
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russellbanyone else want to volunteer to start doing a deep dive in this code to help the review along?21:17
comstudexcept there's some stickiness if you use different networks in different cells right now21:17
zykes-comstud: quantum v2 ?21:17
comstudthat needs addressed21:17
comstudzykes-: ya21:17
comstudwe use it21:17
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vishycomstud: ? nova-network shouldn't be necessary with v221:17
vishyit proxied to quantum in v121:17
russellb#help need one more nova-core reviewer to volunteer to start reviewing the cells patches21:17
vishybut v2 the api nodes should be calling quantum directly..21:17
comstuddoes network_api handle it ?21:18
vishycomstud: yeah21:18
zykes-what's the diff though in cells and aggregates if I can ask ?21:18
comstudit should be fine then21:18
comstudconfigure network_api in each child cell appropriately21:18
vishyzykes-: cells each have their own db and queue21:18
comstudthe only thing that will not work potentially is the API extension21:18
vishyaggregates are groups of hosts in a single installs21:18
comstudif you point API cells and child cells at same quantum, then you're ok21:18
russellbcells contain aggregates21:18
comstudbut that's a limitation right now21:18
zykes-vishy: ok, so aggregates are within that21:19
russellbwould be good to keep a documented set of limitations somewhere21:19
russellbnot sure where ...21:19
russellbjog0: but it's a user doc, really21:19
russellbmaybe for now while it's still moving a lot21:19
russellbanything else on cells?21:20
comstudin any case.. that's about all i have.  probably the largest issues (just understanding how the routing works) will be addressed shortly.21:20
jog0russellb: works for me, but long term openstack-manuals sounds like the right home21:20
russellbjog0: agreed21:21
russellb#topic bugs21:21
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs"21:21
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russellbonly 20 untouched bugs, very nice.21:21
russellbmany thanks to those putting time into triage.  if we all just get a few issues here and there, we'll stay on top of them21:21
sdaguedid mikal create his cookie report?21:21
mikalYep, please hold21:21
mikalSo, we're not as good as last week, but still ok21:22
mikalMostly that's cause russellb has fallen off the wagon...21:22
sdaguemikal steals all the cookies21:22
russellbmikal gets this week's triage gold star21:22
mikalIts still not all the nova-core people doing triage21:22
mikalHint hint21:22
comstudi've got a focus right now, sorry :)21:22
mikalIts ok21:23
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mikalI shall just mock you21:23
russellb#help please help triage nova bugs!  Even just a few would be awesome.21:23
comstudok :)21:23
russellbcool, anything else on bugs?21:23
russellbi actually have one thing on bugs21:23
russellbWe have 4 active nova security bugs (private) that need nova-core attention21:23
russellbplease look at these bugs (and don't discuss them here):
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1074343 in nova "ec2 describe instances does not filter by project_id" [Undecided,Incomplete]21:24
russellbunless the bug is already public, heh21:24
russellb#topic grizzly-121:24
*** openstack changes topic to "grizzly-1"21:24
russellbAlrighty, grizzly-1 is one week out21:24
dansmithuvirtbot: loose lips sink ships!21:24
uvirtbotdansmith: Error: "loose" is not a valid command.21:24
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russellbso,  let's take a look at status of some of these things21:25
alexpilottiwe have a few things on the Hyper-V side that we'd like to have in for G-1 if possible21:25
russellbalexpilotti: ok, is there a blueprint or a bug?21:26
alexpilottirussellb: we have a bp, let me fetch it21:26
dansmithrussellb: were you going to target no-db-virt for G-1?21:26
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dansmithI think we can call it done, right?21:26
russellbdansmith: yeah, we can, link?21:26
sdaguerussellb: the audit's going to be a couple weeks past G-1, I just moved it to G-221:26
devanandais there a chance the remaining baremetal patches might land before G1?21:26
russellbsdague: ok great thanks21:26
russellbdevananda: it's possible ... don't want to rush the reviews just to meet grizzly-1 though, since we're still early in grizzly21:27
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russellbdansmith: done21:27
alexpilottifor the moment we have ConfigDriveV2 implemented21:28
russellbalexpilotti: so is everything for this blueprint up for review?21:28
vishyalexpilotti: really should split the features into individual blueprints21:28
vishyinstead of 1 blueprint for all features21:28
alexpilottirussellb: the BP is still generic, we have to update it, I know21:28
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alexpilottivishy: I'm going to do it ASAP, in the next days21:29
russellbyeah, hard to target if it doesn't have a defined endpoint21:29
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russellbalexpilotti: ok, well if you get a blueprint for config drive support, we can target that, that will probably go in for grizzly-121:29
alexpilottianyway on the Nova side we don't have too much, we are targeting mainly Grizzly21:29
alexpilottifor Quantum21:29
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alexpilottirussellb: ok tx21:30
alexpilottimikal: can I please ask you to re-approve the review?21:30
russellbis Mate Lakat here?  don't know the status of that xenapi volume driver blueprint21:30
alexpilottimikal: since you approved I had to rebase and fix 2 lines21:30
mikalYep, I'll re-review this morning21:30
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russellbxenapi-volume-drivers seems to be stalled21:31
russellbvishy: know anything on that one?21:31
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russellbguess we can just bump early next week if needed21:31
vishythere are a bunch of reviews in21:31
vishybut not done21:31
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russellb#topic Open Discussion21:32
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russellb#help nova-core: review queue is longer than ideal, please help knock it down21:32
vishyok i have an idea on that point21:32
vishymight be crazy21:32
russellbi like how this is starting21:33
vishywhat if we allowed certain people to have +a access to subdirectories21:33
russellbso, if it only touched say ... nova/virt/libvirt/* ?21:33
sdagueis that doable in the current ci system?21:33
alexpilottivishy: +1 :-)21:33
vishysdague: no i asked21:33
vishybut we could do it through convention21:33
vishydoes that seem useful? or just a crazy idea21:34
sdaguesure, I suppose. It does bring up a question of creating consistent quality across the project21:34
dansmithseems like we kinda already have that21:34
mikalAre there really that many extra reviewers that would add?21:34
vishyit isn't for extra reviewers21:34
russellbseems potentially useful ... but if you trust someone enough to approve nova/virt/libvirt/, we should be able to trust them to approve anything that is within their comfort zone21:34
dansmithin that, if they hyperv guys propose something, everyone mostly trusts them that it's the right thing, as long as it doesn't break anything, right?21:34
russellbdansmith: yeah, that's what I do on those patches :-)21:35
vishyit is so alexpiloti can approve stuff in virt/hyperv/ without having to go track down two core members to +2 a21:35
alexpilottirussellb: I keep adding beers for you ;-)21:35
russellbbut his +1 is effectively that to me already21:35
vishysure but we need a core member to take the time and go push the button21:35
russellbif I see that a domain expert has already reviewed it, i spend much less time on it21:35
russellbbut it doesn't take that long :)21:36
vishymaybe we just need to get better about pushing the button21:36
dansmithI dunno, I think that's opening the doors a bit,21:36
russellband it's good to have at least a 1 minute sanity check21:36
vishyfair enough, just wanted to throw the idea out21:36
sdaguevishy: we do, but at the end of the day it's going to be a core member that might have to do an emergency fix. So it seems like they should have looked at it at some point :)21:36
dansmitheven if it's just to small stylistic things and conventions we avoid elsewhere but aren't in hacking.py21:36
vishyi have a general topic to bring up as well21:36
dansmithsdague: ++ :)21:36
vishycross tenant apis21:37
vishycurrently we have things like all_tenants=True for admins21:37
vishyso some things an admin can do across tenants21:37
vishyis this correct / useful?21:37
vishythis sort of plays into the tenant_ids in urls for future versions of the api21:38
vishyand whether that is good or bad21:38
russellbi thought there was no concept of a tenant specific admin21:38
russellband that an admin in keystone was admin of the world21:38
* russellb must just not understand the question21:39
vishyyeah i'm discussing how we fix that21:39
mikalWell, we still want super-admins right?21:40
mikalI see that as useful functionality21:40
russellboh, ok.21:40
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vishymikal: useful yes21:40
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jog0presumably we want both  tenant admin and operators(super-admin)21:40
mikaljog0: that would be good21:40
vishybut the question is should operators be using the normal urls21:40
vishycan an operator access http://api/<other-tenant-id>/servers21:41
vishyor just:21:41
jog0wouldn't using the normal urls make it harder to  do cross tenant operations?21:41
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vishyjog0: yes21:42
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vishyanyway something to chew on21:43
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jog0according to the keystone readme, a role is "a first-class piece of metadata associated with many user-tenant pairs"21:43
jog0I am not sure where admin fits in to that21:43
russellbmight be a good candidate for an openstack-dev thread to get more attention21:44
jog0russellb:  +121:44
sdaguesounds like a good plan21:44
sdagueon the subject of openstack-dev....21:44
sdaguenew other topic - - was hoping to get some other eyes on this thread21:45
sdagueit's i18n again21:45
russellbi18n in the API itself seems evil21:45
russellbbut i'm an ignorant american21:45
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sdagueyeh... the problem is when you're an operator in .cn, assuming english, isn't often an option21:46
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sdagueanyway, just wanted to have people take a look and discuss out there. Not let it just wither on the vine21:47
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* russellb tends to just listen to the people that live elsewhere and this is a big issue for them21:47
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jog0while talking about ML threads:
russellbaw, how'd i miss that21:48
russellbi don't have a strong opinion on it.  my gut reaction is to say leave a default quota in place, but i wouldn't fight it if enough people thought it made sense to have no quotas by default21:48
russellbanything else?  or we'll #endmeeting21:49
eglynn#topic ceilometer/nova interaction as discussed on the ML #link
jog0russellb: while I would like to change it, I don't have a strong opinion on it either.  was hoping to get more feedback21:50
russellbooh, good one eglynn21:50
russellb#topic ceilometer/nova interaction as discussed on the M21:50
*** openstack changes topic to "ceilometer/nova interaction as discussed on the M"21:50
eglynnwe need to get closure/convergence on that thread21:50
russellb#topic ceilometer/nova interaction as discussed on the ML21:50
*** openstack changes topic to "ceilometer/nova interaction as discussed on the ML"21:50
eglynnso the question for you nova folks, is either option #4a or #5 a runner?21:50
russellbeglynn: yeah ... i took a step back to see where everyone took it.  there were a lot of different opinions flying aorund.21:50
eglynn(both require buy-in from nova)21:50
eglynnyep, lots of noise on the thread21:51
vishyi'm leaning towards #521:51
russellbi guess i'd like to look closer at what 4a does, and figure out if it's something that could just be a part of nova-compute21:51
vishythat was the define a common interface that each driver could implement as a library right?21:52
russellbvishy: so we'd distribute 2 copies of the virt layer?21:52
eglynnvishy: cool21:52
eglynnrussellb: my concern about 4a is the seperate daemon complicating deployment21:52
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russellbeglynn: that's why i was saying we could look at adding whatever it does to the existing daemon21:52
eglynnrussellb: yeah, but the timeliness issue is a worry21:53
russellbi don't think i fully get 5 ...21:53
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eglynn(as in there seem to be just fairly weak guarantees on the period_tasks)21:53
russellbeglynn: correct21:53
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vishythe only realy difference between 4 and 5 is nova-compute-pollster lives in ceilo instead of nova21:53
eglynnrussellb: any hazy around 5 may be my fault21:54
russellbthe frequency they run is directly affected by how long they take21:54
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russellbso, what does this library from nova have in it21:54
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russellbin #521:54
vishyan implementation of an interface defined by cielo21:54
russellbdoes it contain the virt drivers?21:54
eglynna cut-down subset of the hypersior driver API21:54
vishylike get_bw_for_period21:54
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russellbah ok ...21:55
russellband then nova-compute could consume this same library then?21:55
eglynnyep, all read-only, non destructive21:55
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russellbfor the bits it uses too21:55
eglynnthough the versioning might be oriented to external consumers21:55
eglynn(slowly evolving, stable)21:55
russellbthat doesn't seem so evil ... i just don't want to see duplicated virt code21:56
vishysince that piece needs to exist regardless21:56
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eglynnso, provisional good vibes around option #5?21:56
vishywe could define that api first before deciding where the daemon will live21:56
alexpilottimy 2 cents: 5 seems to leave more control to Nova on the interface / mixin that needs to defined21:56
russellbeglynn: yeah, i think so ...21:57
alexpilottiin Hyper-V we have quite cool APIs handled via WMI, so both 4a and 5 are not an issue21:57
russellbpending letting it simmer a bit, and going into more detail on what it would look like, etc21:57
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russellbeglynn: thanks for bringing that up21:58
russellbanything else?  we have a whole 2 minutes21:58
eglynnOK, so we'll look at fleshing out that API definition on the ceilo side to keep the ball rolling21:58
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alexpilottieglynn: what's the deadline for the ceilo / nova  integration?21:58
eglynnalexilotti: probably G-221:59
eglynn(we're sitting out G-1)21:59
russellbseems reasonable21:59
alexpilottiwow, cool. Can't wait to have it done.21:59
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russellbalright, then.  thanks everyone22:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"22:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov 15 22:00:07 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:00
openstackMinutes (text):
eglynnthanks all!22:00
devanandalet's take a minute or two break before starting db meeting :)22:00
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russellboh real quick22:01
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russellbnova folks ... next week is a holiday in the US on meeting day22:01
russellbstill have a meeting or no?22:01
dansmithI'll have food in my mouth and it'll be real rude22:01
* russellb wouldn't be there if so, among many others i would guess22:01
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sdague<= won't be here22:02
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russellbvishy: any preference on meeting next week?22:02
vishyskip next week22:02
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russellbgreat thanks22:02
sdagueit's also release day for g-1, right?22:02
russellbsdague: sure is22:04
sdaguebe a fun day for everyone else around :)22:04
russellbhehe, hope nothing is broken, SEE YA22:04
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devanandaand on that note, let's start the db meeting, lol22:05
devananda#startmeeting db22:05
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov 15 22:05:59 2012 UTC.  The chair is devananda. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.22:06
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'db'22:06
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devanandaso who all has stuck around?22:06
* dragondm waves22:06
devanandabriefly, the action items from last week look all covered22:07
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jog0devananda: meeting outline link?22:07
devanandaah, sorry22:07
devanandaagenda is here22:07
driptonsorry forgot to wave22:08
devanandai'll get the hang of using the bot eventually :)22:08
devanandaso, i posted a list of suspected race conditions (prior link)22:09
jog0devananda: I take it, it will be hard to make tests to trigger the race conditions22:09
devanandayep :(22:09
devanandai haven't managed to repro them locally as it's a matter of timing two threads issuing SELECT & INSERT at the same time22:10
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devanandabut it is easy to simulate by replaying the transactions recorded in slow log by hand22:10
devanandathe solution to most of those should be adding UNIQUE constraints22:10
devanandawhich, it turns out, someone tried to do last night :)22:11
devanandahwoever that needs work before it is done right22:12
devanandajog0: want to talk about sqlalchemy object leaks?22:12
jog0devananda:  sure22:12
jog0I have another version of the patch coming shortly22:12
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jog0I got some good feedback from vishy on this22:12
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jog0there are many places on the code where an object is used such as instance.id22:13
jog0instead of instance['id']22:13
jog0the first step will be to change all of those22:13
jog0and then we can either do decorator magic or explicitly include a function to convert  away sqlalchemy objects22:14
jog0this should be doable for G222:14
devanandasounds good22:14
jog0I am not sure if this will have any strange side effects22:14
jog0where someone assumes they get a sqlalchemy object and tries to modify the DB using it22:15
jog0but we will find out soon22:15
devanandaIMNSHO, that shouldn't be happening outside of db/api. but i wouldn't be too surprised if it is ....22:15
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devanandajog0: putting decorators on db/api, not db/sqlalchemy/api, yes?22:16
jog0I put the the decrator in db/api but will be moving it to db.sqlachemy22:16
devanandathe latter would probably cvause issues because there are many public funtions right now that are called within db/sqlalchemy/api22:16
devanandathat is, the same function is called both via db.api and internally via self22:16
devanandawith an expectation of slightly different behavior22:17
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devanandai'm working on cleaning that up with the db-session-cleanup bp22:17
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devanandafor now, probably best not to decorate any db.sqlalchemy.api methods that have "session=none" in the definition22:17
jog0devananda: I would like to  leave it in db/api but I think that breaks the abstraction itself (no sqlalchemy outside of nova/db/sqlalchemy22:18
devanandaif the decorator is sqlalchemy-specific, then i agree22:19
devanandajust saying i'm pretty sure it will break stuff if applied to all public methods in db.sqlalchemy.api right now. which will probably help me find what i need to fix, actually :)22:19
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jog0devananda: I tried applying to  db.sqlalchemy.api and tons broke22:20
devanandamoving on then22:20
devanandaanyone here to talk about db-common?22:21
devanandaor no-db-compute?22:21
jog0russellb  was here a minute ago22:22
russellbummmm!  we had a thread in the last week on openstack-dev about the next steps on no-db-compute22:22
jog0long live nova-conductor22:23
russellbgeneral agreement on the direction, the name of the service changed since the original message22:23
russellbthere's a patch up that creates the service22:23
russellbonce that's in, we'll have a big flurry of patches for a while moving db accesses around :-)22:23
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russellbso, good progress ... i'm feeling very good about having db access out of nova-compute by grizzly-322:24
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russellblikely not far off at grizzly-2 time22:24
devanandai'll give that patch a review after this22:25
russellbvishy posted to that thread about concerns with db being blocking22:25
devanandai'm very interested to see how some of the longer-running db tasks will get refactored22:25
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russellband that a service that acts largely as a db writer is going to be held back because of that22:25
russellbso that's something to have on the radar...22:25
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devanandamordred keeps telling me that moving away from the mysql C connector would help with that a lot22:25
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devanandabut there are apparently reasons we can't yet22:26
russellbyes, some rackspace guys tried the pure python one22:26
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russellband the problem was that it was so much slower that overall it wasn't beneficial22:26
jog0I played with the python one too22:26
russellbbut that's heresay from me22:26
jog0it was slower and faster all at the same time22:26
russellbhearsay rather :-)22:26
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devanandait also broke migrations IIRC22:26
jog0some things were slower others were faster due to eventlet working better22:26
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* mordred would love to poke at the slower bits ... might be possible to fix the performance parts22:27
mordredI mean, the mysql protocol isn't exactly rocket science22:27
devanandarussellb: when you say, db writer service willb e held back, what does that mean?22:27
russellbslower/less efficient than it could be22:27
russellbas long as any db operation is blocking, nothing else is going to be running22:28
russellbjust due to the joys of eventlet and calling out to native code that may block22:28
devanandanot "it wont be implemented". gotcha.22:28
mordredso - there are some places where the python driver actually breaks currently, right?22:29
russellbcan always just run more instances of nova-conductor to make up for it in the meantime, but obviously that's not long term ideal.22:29
mordredit seems like if we can get that part of the driver fixed - then we can treat the performance problems like other tuning things22:29
devanandarussellb: what about running more connections from nova-conductor, since it is effectively acting as a connection-pooler22:29
devanandaalso not a great solution, but ...22:29
russellbcomstud: were you going to look at the python mysql thing this week?  i thought i remembered that coming up on IRC earlier this week22:29
comstudi was going to look at re-adding db pool22:30
russellbdevananda: i don't think that helps, eventlet literally won't switch threads to let another thread do something on another connection22:30
comstudpython mysql sux perf wise22:30
russellbso how does the pool help?22:30
comstudit doesn't improve anything, and makes it worse in some cases22:30
comstudit allows DB queries to happen in parallel22:30
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comstudright now all DB access is serialized22:31
russellbk, i'm trying to understand how that works if eventlet just sits around and blocks while a query is executed22:31
comstudif a DB query takes 5 seconds..22:31
comstudthe whole python process is locked up22:31
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comstudwith a tpool... other greenthreads can run22:31
russellbok, so i need to go look at tpool then ...22:32
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comstudit's real threads22:32
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russellbcomstud: awesome.22:32
russellbso ok, makes sense then.  :)22:32
comstudunfort eventlet still seems a big uggly22:32
comstudwhen using it22:32
comstudbut we'll see22:32
comstudit'll be an option, not a default22:33
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devanandareal threads ++22:33
russellbdevananda: +1 :)22:33
devanandai dont see something like nova-conductor working at scale if it can't multi-thread db connections22:33
russellbso we need to make it happen one way or another22:33
russellbcomstud: thanks for jumping in :)22:34
jog0should there be blueprint to track this? or would this be part of no-db-compute?22:34
russellbshould be its own thing IMO22:34
russellbno-db-compute just happens to make it even more important (because of how we're implementing it in the short term)22:34
devanandais that even a nova thing, though?22:35
dkehnnote on eventlet/gevent greelets, I thought it was a cooperative multithreading, which means that if a greenlet is stuck in an infinite loop, everything is waiting?22:35
russellbwell, it is for now22:35
devanandaor more generally a python / eventlet / mysql-connector thing22:35
russellbwould be good to prove it out in nova first22:35
driptondkehn: eventlet is cooperative.  eventlet.Tpool lets you have a pool of "real" threads in addition, for calling blocking native code.22:35
russellbthen can look at how to make it more gneral22:35
dkehndragondm, thx22:36
dkehndripton, thx, sorry dragondm22:36
vishydkehn: threadpool puts the execution into a real thread22:37
russellbi think that's all on no-db-compute ... :-)22:37
* vishy likes repeating stuff that dripton says :)22:37
devanandarussellb: so, separate BP?22:37
russellbfor the tpool stuff, yes, IMO22:38
devananda#action russellb to post a BP for db threadpool separate from no-db-compute22:38
russellbwho feels like writing it up?  :-)22:38
* russellb looks at comstud 22:38
devanandafwiw, i'm happy to take a look into it, once baremetal stuff settles down a bit22:39
russellbk, sounds like comstud is the guy to coordinate with22:39
* russellb will be busy making the problem worse22:39
devanandaawesome :)22:39
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devanandaanyone want to jump in?22:40
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devanandai'm probably forgetting stuff, but that's all that was on the agenda22:40
driptonI did a wiki page with all the read_deletes='yes' hits.
driptonActually removing them scares the heck out of me; it's easy but will probably break stuff.22:41
jog0wow thats a lot22:41
russellbdefinitely want to break up the removal into smaller logical pieces if you go forward22:41
russellbto make it easier to review that specific area of usage22:42
jog0well if we are going down the road of still soft deletes and make the deleted column unique this becomes a non-blocker correct?22:42
russellbnot sure what makes the most sense chunk wise ... just a general comment :)22:42
devanandajog0: i belive so22:42
driptonIf we keep the soft deletes we should be okay.  I just don't know how to get rid of them in a portable fashion.22:42
jog0dripton: what about periodic task that cleans up db?22:43
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devanandaI am leaning towards keeping soft deletes, using UNIQUE(col, deleted), and periodic cleanup task which can be adjusted per-table by the deployer22:43
jog0devananda: +122:44
driptonjog0: I don't know callers' expectations of how long deleted data has to hang around.22:44
devanandacaveat being that i dont think anyone's written a db-agnostic cleanup task22:44
devanandasome folks at HP have one for mysql22:44
devanandausing events and stored routines22:44
jog0as devananda  said it can be adjusted by deployer22:44
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jog0if this is an optional feature if we support the common ones isn't that good enough, as long as its easily extensible?22:45
jog0so postgres and mysql22:45
driptonIt's the best we can do.22:45
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devanandadkehn: this might be something you are interested in?22:46
driptonIs the HP cleanup task open source?   (Not that it should be hard to write from scratch.)22:46
dkehndevananda, being pulled in a lot of directions at present22:46
devanandai'm not sure. Paul Carlton talked about it at grizzly, so I assume it is...22:46
devanandaor could be22:46
devanandadkehn: sure, np22:46
dkehndevananda, but, yes22:46
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devanandadripton: but yea, it should be easy to rewrite22:47
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dkehnI haven't seen it but generally this woould be straight forward if we are basing it on a time of life22:47
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devanandadripton: from talking with Paul, I think he's willing to share their implementation22:48
devanandadripton: but it wont apply to trunk right now22:48
devanandaanyone want to take that and run with it?22:49
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driptonI'll take a look, if HP can post the code somewhere.22:49
jog0^ action item?22:50
uvirtbotjog0: Error: "action" is not a valid command.22:50
driptonThe tricky bit will be figuring out how to do db-specific code without making it gross.22:50
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devananda#action devananda to find and post existing db-cleanup code22:50
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devanandadripton: it'll probably have to be sepaerate migrations for mysql and pgsql :(22:50
devanandaat least i dont see another way22:51
driptonSome current migrations have if statements in them, but I don't know of a case where we have entirely separate migrations.22:51
driptonsqlalchemy-migrate does support that, though.22:51
driptonYou can do migrations that are sql scripts rather than Python scripts, and then they get put in subdirectories by DB.22:52
devanandathat might work22:52
devanandain any case, i'll try to get you the existing implemenation as a starting point at least22:52
driptonSpeaking of migrate, I'm planning to send mail to openstack-dev about alembic and backportable migrations next week.  Waiting for dprince to finish his migration squashing (he said he's working on it this week) so I don't have to massively rebase.22:53
devanandai should probably take a closer look at alembic ...22:54
devanandaanything else or shall we #end?22:55
driptonbye all22:56
jog0one more22:56
jog0there are 3 db bps that don't have assignees22:56
jog0I can take
jog0but the other two need owners,  and are  marked as high22:57
devanandai can take db-reconnect, but i think that is, at best, G3, possibly H22:57
jog0devananda:  can you assign db-api-cleanup to me22:57
devanandathe code is already written22:57
devanandabut the patch was denied, and should probably wait till we finish the rest of cleanup22:58
devanandajog0: will do22:58
jog0devananda:  agreed about  reconnect22:58
devanandathat leaves db-archiving22:58
driptonI'll take db-archiving.22:59
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devanandashould we add a new one for db-unique-keys?22:59
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devanandaor is that too fine grained22:59
jog0do you mean unique keys with soft delete?22:59
driptonI think that should be a separate blueprint.23:00
jog0yes to  bp.23:00
driptonIt's much easier to get in than the rest of db-archiving23:00
jog0separate bp*23:00
devananda#action devananda to post db-unique-key blueprint23:00
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driptonI may also take backportable-db-migrations away from vishy, depending on whether people want to do alembic or not.23:01
driptonIf not then it's simple but gross.  If so then it's bigger.23:01
russellbso you want it if it's bigger, not simple and gross?  :-)23:01
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driptonI'll do it either way, but if I'm pushing alembic then I *have* to do it.  If it's just adding padding numbers then anyone can do it.23:02
russellbmakes sense23:02
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driptonAnd I'd rather not have my name on the clearly wrong solution.23:02
russellbAuthor: Hackity Hack <>23:03
russellband we all whistle and ignore it23:03
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driptonAlan Smithee.23:03
devanandaall righty then :) looks like time to end...23:04
driptonbye again23:04
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov 15 23:04:38 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)23:04
openstackMinutes (text):
devanandabye all23:04
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jog0thanks devananda23:05
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