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| jgriffith | Looks like a crowded room | 16:01 |
|---|---|---|
| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 16 16:02:15 2013 UTC. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:02 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:02 |
| JM1 | indeed! | 16:02 |
| eharney | o/ | 16:02 |
| avishay | hello all | 16:02 |
| DuncanT | How's the new swimming pool John? | 16:02 |
| xyang_ | hi | 16:02 |
| kmartin | hello | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: at least it will be a fancy below ground pool.... | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: If I can find the darn thing | 16:03 |
| bswartz | hi | 16:03 |
| avishay | jgriffith: good luck! | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | Wow.. good turn out this week | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: Yeah, thanks! | 16:03 |
| smulcahy | hi | 16:03 |
| winston-d | hi | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | Ok.... let's start with the scality driver | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | JM1: has joined us to fill in some details | 16:03 |
| jdurgin1 | hello | 16:04 |
| JM1 | hi everyone | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/19675/ | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | #topic scality driver | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "scality driver (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:04 | |
| JM1 | I see that DuncanT just added his own comment | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | JM1: Yeah, and after our conversation yesterday my only remaining concern is missing functionality | 16:05 |
| JM1 | I didn't expect the lack of snapshots to be such an issue | 16:05 |
| DuncanT | From my POV, I think people expect the things that have always worked in cinder to continue to always work, regardless of backend | 16:06 |
| JM1 | hmmm | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | JM1: Keep in mind that the first thing a tester/user will do is try and run through the existing client commands | 16:06 |
| JM1 | I saw that the NFS driver doesn't support snapshot either | 16:06 |
| JM1 | but I suppose some people use it? | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | JM1: Yeah, and it's been logged as a bug | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:07 |
| JM1 | ok | 16:07 |
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| JM1 | can it be actually implemented with regular NFS? | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | So why don't you share some info on plans | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | You had mentioned that you do have plans for this in the future correct? | 16:07 |
| winston-d | well, I notice that zadara driver doesn't support snapshot either. | 16:07 |
| DuncanT | qcow files rather than raw would allow it | 16:07 |
| matelakat | Hi all. | 16:07 |
| JM1 | regarding snapshots, we have no formal plans so far | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | oh, I misunderstood | 16:07 |
| JM1 | of course we're thinking about implementing it | 16:07 |
| matelakat | We added a XenAPINFS , and snapshot support is waiting for review. Although it is a bit generous. | 16:08 |
| JM1 | but right now there is no such thing as a release date for this feature | 16:08 |
| matelakat | Making deep copies instead of real snapshots ... | 16:08 |
| rushiagr | hi! | 16:08 |
| JM1 | matelakat: interesting | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | JM1: Is there any sort of hack that comes to mind to make it at least appear to have this? | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | Similar to what matelakat has done? | 16:09 |
| JM1 | jgriffith: well, just as was said, we can do a full copy | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | JM1: That would alleviate my issue | 16:09 |
| DuncanT | ditto | 16:10 |
| thingee | +1 | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | For me it's more of continuity | 16:10 |
| JM1 | I just thought that this could be more disappointing to users than knowing that they don't have real snapshots | 16:10 |
| avishay | I think we have to keep in mind that snapshot implementations will also need to support future functionality, like restore? | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | JM1: So I'd rather document to users what you're doing and why it's not a good idea | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | but give them the opportunity | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | Remember, most users are doing things automated | 16:10 |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: +1 | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | They don't want/need to check "if this backend taht" | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | that | 16:11 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: the ability to do fast/efficient snapshots seems like the kind of thing a driver should be able to advertise in it capabilities | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | etc etc | 16:11 |
| avishay | bswartz: +1 | 16:11 |
| matelakat | bswartz +1 | 16:11 |
| winston-d | bswartz: good idea. :) | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | The continuity and adherence to the API is what matters to me, not the implementation | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: +1 | 16:11 |
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| guitarzan | so every backend has to implement every feature in the API? | 16:12 |
| JM1 | jgriffith: well at the moment, they will need to also setup our SOFS before using it in cinder | 16:12 |
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| bswartz | but I agree that some sort of dumb/slow snapshot implementation is better than none | 16:12 |
| JM1 | and AFAIK, there can be only one cinder driver at a time | 16:12 |
| avishay | Maybe there should be a generic full copy implementation and those who have efficient snapshots will advertise the capability? | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: well, I hate to use absolute terms | 16:12 |
| guitarzan | well, there is obviously some line being drawn here and it is unclear what it is | 16:12 |
| DuncanT | JM1: Multiple driver support is a hot new feature | 16:12 |
| JM1 | DuncanT: do you mean it's being implemented? | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | JM1: But I consier things like create/snapshot/delete/create-from-snap core | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: ^^ that was meant for you | 16:13 |
| winston-d | JM1: there can be multiple cinder driver for a cinder cluster. | 16:13 |
| DuncanT | JM1: I believe it works, within limitations of works (requires both drivers to implement the get_stats function) | 16:13 |
| JM1 | winston-d: ah good to know! | 16:13 |
| guitarzan | jgriffith: yeah, I got that :) | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: you object? | 16:14 |
| guitarzan | I just think it's an interesting stance to take | 16:14 |
| guitarzan | people wanting cinder support for a particular backend probably already know about that backend | 16:14 |
| JM1 | winston-d: so I suppose there is a system of rules to determine what driver will host what volume? | 16:14 |
| winston-d | JM1: yeah, the scheduler | 16:14 |
| DuncanT | JM1: volume_types | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: that's fair | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: let me rephrase it a bit | 16:15 |
| hemna__ | is there a way for the user to select which backend to use? volume types? | 16:15 |
| winston-d | JM1: scheduler decides which back-end to serve the request based on volume type. | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | The initial review is sure to get a -1 from me, but if the vendor simply can't offer the capability then exceptions can and likely will be made | 16:15 |
| DuncanT | Can we move multi-driver talk to later in the meetingm, or this is going to get confusing | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: +1 | 16:15 |
| avishay | hemna__: a user shouldn't need to choose a backend, as long as the backend has the capabilities they need | 16:15 |
| winston-d | avishay: +1 | 16:16 |
| guitarzan | jgriffith: that sounds reasonable | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | As DuncanT let's table the back-end discussion for the moment | 16:16 |
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| jgriffith | guitarzan: that's more along the lines of what I had in mind and is why JM1 is here talking to us this morning :) | 16:16 |
| guitarzan | :) | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | so JM1.... | 16:17 |
| DuncanT | I'd also be tempted to start being more harsh on new features being added without a reasonable number of drivers having the functionality added at the same time | 16:17 |
| JM1 | so from this I understand that even copying would be an acceptable fallback to support snapshotting | 16:17 |
| JM1 | that's something we can do | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I would agree, but I don't know that we haven't adhered to that already | 16:17 |
| matelakat | JM1: on the manager level? | 16:17 |
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| jgriffith | I've avoided putting SolidFire stuff in core for that very reason | 16:17 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: As the project matures, we can bring in tighter rules | 16:18 |
| JM1 | matelakat: manager? | 16:18 |
| matelakat | the one that calls the driver. | 16:18 |
| guitarzan | I would guess he means at the driver level | 16:18 |
| JM1 | ah, you mean as a fallback for drivers like ours that don't have the feature? | 16:18 |
| guitarzan | the driver can certainly just do a copy | 16:18 |
| guitarzan | ahh, I misunderstood if that's the case :) | 16:19 |
| matelakat | yes, so on the driver level, you only need a copy | 16:19 |
| JM1 | yes I was thinking inside our driver | 16:19 |
| JM1 | inside the driver it's easy to copy files, rename, whatever | 16:19 |
| DuncanT | If it can be made generic enough that NFS can use it to, even better | 16:20 |
| JM1 | indeed | 16:20 |
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| bswartz | DuncanT: +1 | 16:20 |
| JM1 | the performance cost is high, so that won't be useful with all workloads | 16:20 |
| JM1 | but I gather that for some it will be still better than nothing | 16:21 |
| DuncanT | I think that is true, yes | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | JM1: well snapshots inparticular have been notriously poor performance items in OpenStack | 16:21 |
| matelakat | Maybe we could come up with a name for those snapshots, so it reflects that they are not real snapshots. | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | LVM snaps suck! | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | matelakat: we have clones now | 16:22 |
| bswartz | LVM snaps are better than full copies | 16:22 |
| matelakat | jgriffith: thanks. | 16:22 |
| hemna__ | ok I gotta jam to work... | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: I didn't ask for what's worse, I just said they suck | 16:23 |
| guitarzan | matelakat: the snapshot vs backup discussion is another one :) | 16:23 |
| JM1 | I don't see how LVM snaps can be worse than a full copy of a 1TB volume | 16:23 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: fair enough | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | They're only worse when you try to use them for something | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | and they kill perf on your original LVM | 16:23 |
| avishay | it may take longer to make a full copy, but the full copy will perform better | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | I'm not talking perf of the action itself, but we're really loosing focus here me thinks :) | 16:23 |
| guitarzan | I think we're drifting again... | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: +1 | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | Ok... back in here | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | JM1: Do you have a strong objection to faking snapshot support via a deep copy? | 16:24 |
| JM1 | jgriffith: not at all | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | Or does anybody else on the team have a strong objection? | 16:24 |
| JM1 | but I will have to think about details | 16:24 |
| guitarzan | the api doesn't care if a snapshot is a snapshot or a copy | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: correct | 16:25 |
| JM1 | and come back to you folks to ask implementation questions | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | So TBH this is exactly what I did in the SF driver anyway | 16:25 |
| guitarzan | so until the "backup" discussion starts again, we shouldn't worry about implementation | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | we didn't have the concepts of snapshots so I just clone | 16:25 |
| JM1 | eg. can we expect the VM to pause I/O during the snaphost? | 16:25 |
| hemna__ | that's pretty much what we do in the 3PAR driver as well | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | JM1: typically no, you can't assume that | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | JM1: we don't do anything to enforce that | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | that could be a problem eh... | 16:26 |
| DuncanT | --force option allows snashot of an attached volume, but it is a 'here be dragons' option | 16:26 |
| JM1 | jgriffith: ok so for a copy we need a mechanism to force a pause | 16:26 |
| guitarzan | you have to be disconnected to snap unless you --force right? | 16:26 |
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| guitarzan | DuncanT: +1 | 16:26 |
| JM1 | DuncanT: oh, so that means usually we snapshot only unattached volumes? | 16:26 |
| DuncanT | normal snapshot without force requires source volume to be unattached | 16:27 |
| DuncanT | JM1: That is my belief | 16:27 |
| JM1 | ok, so cp should work | 16:27 |
| avishay | yes | 16:27 |
| DuncanT | JM1: We don't currently support snap of live volumes, though that will be fixed some time | 16:27 |
| JM1 | ah ok | 16:27 |
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| jgriffith | yall speak for yourselves :) | 16:27 |
| JM1 | I thought it already worked like that on more capable drivers | 16:27 |
| guitarzan | to be fair, the api also doesn't prevent you from immediately reattaching :) | 16:28 |
| guitarzan | again, "here be dragons" | 16:28 |
| DuncanT | Yeah, I'm thinking of proposing a state machine with an explicit 'snapshotting' state to cover that, but that is a state machine discussion | 16:28 |
| bswartz | DuncanT: +1 | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: +1 for states in Cinder!! | 16:28 |
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| jgriffith | Back to JM1 are we good here or is there more we need to work out? | 16:29 |
| rushiagr | DuncanT: +1 | 16:29 |
| guitarzan | so we've given JM1 a lot of work or stuff to think about | 16:29 |
| JM1 | jgriffith: I think we're good | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | Excellent... anybody else? | 16:29 |
| JM1 | I will see how to do a simple implementation with simlpe file copies | 16:29 |
| winston-d | DuncanT: +1 for state machine | 16:29 |
| JM1 | and resubmit patches | 16:29 |
| JM1 | and thank you all for your input | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | Ok... so what else have we got | 16:30 |
| JM1 | being primarily a dev I'm not as familiar with real use cases as I'd like to | 16:31 |
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| jgriffith | Since we started the multi-backend topic shall we go there? | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | I'm going to time limit it though :) | 16:31 |
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| * jgriffith has learned that topic can take up an entire meeting easily | 16:31 | |
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| hemna__ | what is left to implement to support it? | 16:31 |
| avishay | BRB | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | #topic multi-backend support | 16:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "multi-backend support (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:32 | |
| jgriffith | So there are option here | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | hub_cap: is possibly looking at picking up the work rnirmal was doing | 16:33 |
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| jgriffith | So we get back to the question of leaving it to a filter sched option or moving to a more effecient model :) | 16:33 |
| hemna__ | which option has the best chance of making it in G3 ? | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | hemna__: They've all got potential IMO | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | So let me put it this way | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | The filter schedule is a feature that's in, done | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | So what we're talking about is an additional option | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | The ability to have multiple back-ends on a single Cinder node | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | There are two ways to go about that right now (IMO) | 16:35 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: do you mean mutiple processes on one host? or 1 process? | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | 1. The patch that nirmal proposed that provides some intelligence in icking bakc-ends | 16:35 |
| winston-d | bswartz: that's two different approaches | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | 2. Running multiple c-vol services on a single Cinder node | 16:35 |
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| bswartz | oh | 16:36 |
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| bswartz | (2) seems like it would create some new problems | 16:36 |
| DuncanT | I favour option 2 from a keeping-the-code-simple POV | 16:36 |
| winston-d | DuncanT: +100 | 16:36 |
| bswartz | lol | 16:36 |
| winston-d | bswartz: which are? | 16:37 |
| bswartz | well what would go in the cinder.conf file? | 16:37 |
| bswartz | the options for every backend? | 16:37 |
| bswartz | would different backends get different conf files? | 16:37 |
| guitarzan | I think you'd have the same problem with 1 or n managers | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: not sure why that's unique between the options? | 16:37 |
| guitarzan | with n managers you could build a conf for each | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | BTW: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/11192/ | 16:37 |
| DuncanT | Different conf files or named sections in a single file... neither is overly complicated | 16:38 |
| bswartz | well option 1 forces us to solve that problem explicitly | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | For a point of reference on what Option 1 looks like | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | This also illustrates the conf files, not so bad | 16:38 |
| bswartz | ty | 16:38 |
| xyang_ | opt 2 multiple c-vol services on one single cinder node seems good. you can use filter scheduler to choose node | 16:38 |
| xyang_ | I mean choose c-vol service | 16:38 |
| hub_cap | hey guys sorry im in IRL meeting. just saw my name | 16:38 |
| hub_cap | im in favor of yall telling me what to do :D | 16:39 |
| avishay | back | 16:39 |
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| bswartz | okay I'm in favor of (2) as well | 16:40 |
| bswartz | bring on the extra PIDs | 16:40 |
| JM1 | could you attach volumes from 2 different cinder services in the same VM? | 16:40 |
| DuncanT | JM1: Yes | 16:40 |
| guitarzan | sure | 16:40 |
| hub_cap | so multiple c-vol services, would that be like nova-api, spawning multiple listeners in teh same pid? | 16:40 |
| winston-d | JM1: of course | 16:40 |
| hub_cap | on different ports | 16:41 |
| DuncanT | No need | 16:41 |
| guitarzan | hub_cap: no, just managers | 16:41 |
| DuncanT | They don't listen on a port, only on rabbit | 16:41 |
| winston-d | hub_cap: that's a big different, nova-api workers are listening on _SAME_ port | 16:41 |
| hub_cap | winston-d: im talking about osapi, metadata and ec2 api in the same launcher | 16:42 |
| avishay | +1 for option #2 | 16:42 |
| winston-d | hub_cap: while c-vol services listen on AMQP | 16:42 |
| hub_cap | sure... amqp vs port... not much diff... a unique _thing_ | 16:42 |
| hub_cap | but ure right it was my bad for saying port :D | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | hub_cap: I think you're on the same page | 16:42 |
| hub_cap | i dont think operators will be happy w/ us having 10 pids for 10 backends :) | 16:42 |
| winston-d | hub_cap: ah well. they should have their own pid if my memory serves me right. | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | I think in previous converstations we likened it to swift in a box or something along those lines | 16:43 |
| hub_cap | i have a vm running let me c | 16:43 |
| winston-d | hub_cap: why not? | 16:43 |
| hub_cap | ure right winston-d | 16:43 |
| DuncanT | 10 pids for ten backends is better than one fault taking out all your backends! | 16:43 |
| bswartz | hub_cap: I think 10 would be uncommon -- I see more like 2 or 3 in reality | 16:43 |
| hub_cap | as long as they are started/stopped by a single binscript, like nova does im down for it | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: hehe | 16:43 |
| hub_cap | bswartz: ya i know :D | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | hub_cap: that's what I'm thinking | 16:44 |
| JM1 | or maybe 10 instances of 2-3 drivers? | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | We do introduce a point of failure issue here which sucks though | 16:44 |
| JM1 | I expect people to do such crazy things for eg. performance | 16:44 |
| hub_cap | so yall ok w/ me modeling it like the present nova-api, but w/ the subsitiution of amqp to pids, they create different pids but use a single binscript to start/sotp | 16:44 |
| hub_cap | ampq to ports... sry | 16:44 |
| hub_cap | trying to listen IRL too | 16:44 |
| DuncanT | JM1: 10 instances of 1 driver, on a single node, gives almost no performance improvement | 16:45 |
| JM1 | DuncanT: I meant several instances of a driver but each with different tuning | 16:45 |
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| jgriffith | JM1: we're not quite that sophisticated (yet) :) | 16:45 |
| bswartz | 10 instances of 1 driver on a single node also increases your failure domain if that one node dies | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | Ok... | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: so that's my concern, however that's the price of admission for this whole concept no matter how you implement it | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | If HA is a concern, do an HA cinder install or use mltiple back-ends | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | That being said... back to the topic at hand | 16:46 |
| JM1 | or use a redundant storage cluster (hint hint) | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | JM1: The problem is if the cinder node goes your toast | 16:47 |
| bswartz | yeah I'm just saying that in practice I don't expect a huge of PIDs on the same host -- people will spread them out to a reasonable degree | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | There's now way to get to that redundant storage cluster :) | 16:47 |
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| JM1 | jgriffith: this will only affect creation of new instances, no? | 16:47 |
| JM1 | (but I'm getting off topic) | 16:48 |
| bswartz | JM1: creation of new volumes, not instances, but yes | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | JM1: volumes, create, attach, delete andy api call | 16:48 |
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| jgriffith | back on track here... Sounds like concensus for the multiple processes on a single Cinder node? | 16:48 |
| DuncanT | You can put multiple instances of API behind a load ballancer and most things work, there are some gaps still | 16:48 |
| hub_cap | ok so it sounds like we have consensus? | 16:48 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: +1 | 16:49 |
| bswartz | the only thing unaffected by cinder going down is your data access | 16:49 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: +2 | 16:49 |
| hub_cap | single config file iirc? right? | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | hub_cap: hehe | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | hub_cap: yep, that's what I'm thinking | 16:49 |
| * hub_cap hopes i didnt open a new can of worms | 16:49 | |
| hub_cap | cool | 16:49 |
| avishay | jgriffith: +3 | 16:49 |
| xyang_ | +4 | 16:49 |
| hub_cap | w/ specific [GROUP NAMES] | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | I just want to make sure up front... is anybody going to come back and say "why are we doing this?" | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | speak now | 16:49 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: so each process has its own conf file? | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | hub_cap: GROUP NAMES seems like an interesting approach | 16:50 |
| thingee | jgriffith: I think the HA issue is going to come up. | 16:50 |
| hub_cap | itll be nice to do CONFIG.backend_one.ip | 16:50 |
| avishay | HA needs to be solved regardless IMO | 16:51 |
| avishay | Orthogonal issues, no? | 16:51 |
| DuncanT | HA I think is a summit topic, though we might be able to solve some of it before hand | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I would agree, but thingee I think is pointing out something folks will definitely bring up | 16:52 |
| avishay | Agreed | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | But my answer there is then don't do it.. use multi-nodes, types and the fitlter scheduler | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: avishay and yes, HA is something we really need but it's a seperate issue IMO | 16:53 |
| avishay | types + filter sched will work here too, right? | 16:53 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: solves the more general problem and use case yes | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | avishay: but some don't want an independent cinder node for every back-end in their DC | 16:53 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: well, i thought the only benefit of multiple c-vol on single node is to save physical machines since a lot of c-vols are just proxy, very lightweight workloads | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: isn't that what I said :) | 16:54 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i agree, but now the scheduler won't choose the backend? | 16:54 |
| winston-d | from scheduler point of view, it doesn't even have to know those c-vols are on the same physical server or not. | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: or are we typing in unison :) | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: Ahh.. good point | 16:55 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: yup | 16:55 |
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| jgriffith | Ok... off topic again | 16:55 |
| avishay | nevermind my comment | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | So the question is, everybody on board with hub_cap going down this path? | 16:55 |
| DuncanT | Seems good to me | 16:56 |
| avishay | me 2 | 16:56 |
| winston-d | avishay: it still does | 16:56 |
| winston-d | me 2 | 16:56 |
| hub_cap | s/path/rabbit hole/ | 16:56 |
| * jgriffith +1 has wanted it since Essex :) | 16:56 | |
| thingee | +1 | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | hub_cap: synonyms :) | 16:56 |
| jdurgin1 | it's fine with me | 16:56 |
| guitarzan | nirmal will be so sad :) | 16:56 |
| winston-d | hub_cap: i'd love to help you test/review the patch | 16:56 |
| * guitarzan runs | 16:57 | |
| xyang_ | sounds good | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: haha!! | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: speak up | 16:57 |
| winston-d | guitarzan: :) | 16:57 |
| guitarzan | no, I think multiple managers is good | 16:57 |
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| jgriffith | alright, awesome | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | Let's move forward then | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | hub_cap: You da man | 16:57 |
| hub_cap | winston-d: thank u sir | 16:57 |
| hub_cap | and jgriffith <3 | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | hub_cap: ping any of us for help though of course | 16:57 |
| hub_cap | roger | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | Ok... almost out of time | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | #topic open discussion | 16:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:58 | |
| thingee | I'm back after being sick since last week wednesday...reviews and what not coming...sorry guys | 16:58 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: glad you're up and about, hope you're feeling better | 16:59 |
| avishay | submitted the generic copy volume<->image patch | 16:59 |
| rushiagr | we agreed on CONFIG.backend_one.ip type conf files, am i correct? | 16:59 |
| avishay | and DuncanT submitted the backup to swift patch which i hope to review soon | 16:59 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: any updates on the get_volume_stats() regarding the drivers providing "None" for values that they can't obtain | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | Snapshot/volume deletion is the other thing I wanted to bring up | 17:00 |
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| jgriffith | kmartin: Oh... I haven't talked to anyone about that yet I don't think | 17:00 |
| winston-d | kmartin: could you elaborate ? | 17:00 |
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| DuncanT | Specifically the fact that currently, if you snapshot a volume then delete the volume, the snapshot is unusable if you need the provider loc/auth of the original volume | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: sorry... see I told you I'd forget :( | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | We're out of time :( | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | BuT | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | EVERYBODY | 17:01 |
| kmartin | winston-d: on 3par we are not able to provide a few of the values that are required | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | Please take a look at the backup patch DuncanT submitted | 17:01 |
| DuncanT | :-) | 17:01 |
| jgriffith | and jump over to #openstack-cinder to finish this conversation | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | We need to give the Xen folks the channel now | 17:02 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 16 17:02:16 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-01-16-16.02.html | 17:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-01-16-16.02.txt | 17:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-01-16-16.02.log.html | 17:02 |
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| winston-d | kmartin: let's continue discussion in cinder channel | 17:02 |
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| *** vishy_zz is now known as vishy | 17:02 | |
| johngarbutt | #startmeeting XenAPI | 17:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 16 17:03:17 2013 UTC. The chair is johngarbutt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 17:03 |
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| johngarbutt | Hi all | 17:03 |
| johngarbutt | #topic actions from last meeting | 17:03 |
| matelakat | hi | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:03 | |
| toanster | hello | 17:03 |
| Mr_T | howdy | 17:03 |
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| bobba_ | Morning! | 17:03 |
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| johngarbutt | one action was for bobball to check about any limits on the xenstore stuff | 17:04 |
| johngarbutt | I think it was 2k for any xenstore value? | 17:04 |
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| BobBall | That's right - it's a page of 4k but with a bunch of headers, then we use a round value of 2048 bytes | 17:04 |
| johngarbutt | right | 17:05 |
| Mr_T | Thanks again, BobBall. | 17:05 |
| johngarbutt | #info 2k limit on size of xenstore value | 17:05 |
| BobBall | hth! | 17:05 |
| johngarbutt | the other think was to discuss resetting passwords and looking towards cloud-init rather than xenapi specific agent | 17:06 |
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| johngarbutt | I think we scheduled that for 17:30 | 17:06 |
| johngarbutt | #topic blueprints | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:06 | |
| johngarbutt | anyone got any blueprint worries? | 17:06 |
| johngarbutt | mikal: is config drive done now? blueprint says in progress? | 17:07 |
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| johngarbutt | There are the same review requests from last week I think | 17:07 |
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| johngarbutt | sounds like nothing more on this one? | 17:08 |
| johngarbutt | #topic docs | 17:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "docs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:08 | |
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| johngarbutt | I updated the hypervisor wiki page to note that config drive hit trunk | 17:08 |
| johngarbutt | #topic QA | 17:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "QA (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:09 | |
| johngarbutt | any more updates on gating trunk? | 17:09 |
| johngarbutt | #topic open discussion | 17:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:10 | |
| johngarbutt | anything people want to raise? | 17:10 |
| johngarbutt | #info I got XCP iso running on virtual box, then openstack running using devstack, makes for a neat dev environment | 17:11 |
| johngarbutt | is this meeting time still good with people? is it still useful? | 17:12 |
| BobBall | It's been a quiet week I think | 17:12 |
| johngarbutt | I am keen to keep doing this weekly, so we have a good time to raise things when they come up | 17:12 |
| guitarzan | I can bring up force detach if you like | 17:12 |
| guitarzan | :) | 17:12 |
| zykes- | any news on san stufF ? :p | 17:13 |
| toanster | yes, it is extremely helpful to me, i am still learning the space though | 17:13 |
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| johngarbutt | guitarzan: fire away | 17:13 |
| matelakat | guitarzan: is it related to volumes? | 17:14 |
| guitarzan | it's the same request... we (rackspace) would really like to be able to do it | 17:14 |
| guitarzan | matelakat: yeah | 17:14 |
| johngarbutt | Oh, I see, today you might wait until a VM reboots before it happens, no way to force it? | 17:14 |
| guitarzan | yes | 17:15 |
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| guitarzan | and I'm not even sure the support guys can always get it to happen during a reboot | 17:15 |
| guitarzan | but I'm not entirely clear on that case | 17:15 |
| BobBall | Guests with PV tools installed? Doesn't the detach happen from XS immediately? or is it OpenStack that's postponing it becuase it's not sure it can happen? | 17:15 |
| johngarbutt | you get disk in use from XenServer | 17:15 |
| guitarzan | BobBall: xen won't detach because it's in use by the pv guests | 17:15 |
| matelakat | I guess it's mounted, right? | 17:16 |
| BobBall | oh - of course. The detach is negotiated with the guest, yes. | 17:16 |
| guitarzan | mounted, part of a raid, lvm, someone used the wrong side of the pillow | 17:16 |
| BobBall | guitarzan, Just for confirmation, if you run a vbd-unplug with force=true, does that succeed? | 17:16 |
| johngarbutt | it is one of those things that might be kernel specific I guess, due to pvops code | 17:17 |
| guitarzan | BobBall: someone was supposed to get me your email address and I was going to send you a couple of emails | 17:17 |
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| guitarzan | BobBall: I'm not sure... I didn't know about force=true! | 17:17 |
| BobBall | guitarzan, I'm bob.ball@citrix.com - feel free to send me as many emails as you like | 17:17 |
| johngarbutt | do we have the bug for this? | 17:17 |
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| guitarzan | BobBall: thanks! | 17:18 |
| guitarzan | one other interesting xen issue is we've seen pbd-unplug not actually remove the iscsi connection | 17:18 |
| johngarbutt | does nova have a force detach? | 17:18 |
| guitarzan | BobBall: that's the other one I needed to ask you | 17:18 |
| guitarzan | johngarbutt: I'm not sure | 17:18 |
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| johngarbutt | I guess the current code goes into a retry loop checking to see if the volume gets detached | 17:18 |
| guitarzan | I think clay added it, but I think that was just the cinder side | 17:18 |
| johngarbutt | I guess the nice thing is to add a force remove (admin only operation?) | 17:19 |
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| johngarbutt | or is it users that get worried? | 17:19 |
| BobBall | guitarzan, I think that the iSCSI connection is managed by the SR - so since the PBD could in theory be re-plugged as long as the SR is active then that connection is expected to stay? johngarbutt - is that right? | 17:19 |
| guitarzan | well, they ran an sr forget as well | 17:19 |
| guitarzan | this has only happened a few times | 17:19 |
| BobBall | oh - drat! | 17:19 |
| johngarbutt | it certainly should get tidied up | 17:20 |
| guitarzan | it's not exactly an unconfirmed bug, but I don't know how to reproduce it | 17:20 |
| johngarbutt | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1030108 | 17:20 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1030108 in nova "Detaching a volume from a XenAPI instance fails if XenAPI thinks it is in use" [Medium,Confirmed] | 17:20 |
| BobBall | So you've seen some cases where the SR doesn't exist in XS any more, yet the low level iscsi connection is still active? | 17:20 |
| johngarbutt | I think that is when I became aware of the issues here | 17:20 |
| guitarzan | BobBall: yes, very infrequently | 17:21 |
| guitarzan | johngarbutt: got it | 17:21 |
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| guitarzan | that bug specifies the "remove from queue" half, but I think a force is more wanted | 17:21 |
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| johngarbutt | yep, we have a force, but bad things might happen to the data in the volume | 17:22 |
| BobBall | guitarzan, That's not ideal! We'll have to look into possible causes for that | 17:22 |
| zykes- | johngarbutt: san? | 17:22 |
| guitarzan | BobBall: it would be great if we could explain it at least. it's possible that it happened during some manual sr/pbd cleanup after failed resizes and such | 17:22 |
| johngarbutt | zykes: no real news there I am afraid | 17:23 |
| BobBall | guitarzan, Can we get a copy of the SMlog from a system that this has occured on? There should be some logging of when we try and log out of the iscsi session | 17:23 |
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| zykes- | johngarbutt: doh | 17:24 |
| guitarzan | BobBall: I will look, but it's probably logrotated away by now | 17:24 |
| johngarbutt | #action BobBall and guitarzan to get some logs about occasional iSCSI issue | 17:24 |
| guitarzan | if I see another one, I will definitely grab logs | 17:24 |
| BobBall | Great, thanks. Ideally grab a bugtool so that other possible logs are also contained (e.g. messages, xensource.log) and the xapi DB to check state etc | 17:25 |
| BobBall | Is this something that you fall over quickly when it happens? (i.e. because you can't reconnect the iscsi target to another host or similar?) | 17:25 |
| johngarbutt | cool, so that covers most things | 17:26 |
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| guitarzan | BobBall: no, we just found this doing some backend volume clean/audit | 17:26 |
| johngarbutt | any more for any more (before we move on to passwords without an agent | 17:26 |
| BobBall | Hmmm okay. Well let's take this offline - I'll have a bit of a think and a dig to refresh myself on how we handle the iscsi sessions and hopefully we'll get an occurence soon we can debug | 17:27 |
| guitarzan | great, thanks | 17:28 |
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| johngarbutt | #topic password reset in a post xenapi agent world | 17:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "password reset in a post xenapi agent world (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:29 | |
| johngarbutt | hi, so there were some extra folks going to join us | 17:29 |
| johngarbutt | who is in the channel and interested? | 17:29 |
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| johngarbutt | alexpilotti: hows things? | 17:30 |
| johngarbutt | pvo: hows tings? | 17:30 |
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| alexpilotti | johngarbutt: hey | 17:30 |
| johngarbutt | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/get-password | 17:30 |
| johngarbutt | so looks like there is a patch from vish to make the old and new work together | 17:31 |
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| johngarbutt | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/19746/ | 17:31 |
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| johngarbutt | basically, if you set a password with the agent, you can get the encrypted password using the new nova call | 17:31 |
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| johngarbutt | alexpilotti: what is the plan with hyper-v and cloud-init? | 17:32 |
| johngarbutt | or rather cloud-init on windows | 17:32 |
| alexpilotti | johngarbutt: 1) Implementing the patch that Vish proposed | 17:32 |
| alexpilotti | using the metadata service | 17:32 |
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| johngarbutt | post to metadata service? | 17:33 |
| alexpilotti | yep | 17:33 |
| johngarbutt | #link https://gist.github.com/4008762 | 17:33 |
| alexpilotti | 2) doing it via guest / host communication | 17:33 |
| alexpilotti | letting the user choosing between 1 and 2 | 17:33 |
| johngarbutt | so how do you kick off the getting of the password, is it just on VM create? | 17:33 |
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| alexpilotti | that's the safest way | 17:34 |
| alexpilotti | this way the password don't travel unencrypted on any channel | 17:34 |
| alexpilotti | *doesn't | 17:34 |
| johngarbutt | I think the xenapi side requirement is that we can reset the password without a reboot, at the users request | 17:34 |
| alexpilotti | that's what I want to do as well | 17:35 |
| johngarbutt | I know the user currently specifies the password, but I think we are OK with it being generated | 17:35 |
| johngarbutt | as you say, much safer | 17:35 |
| alexpilotti | here's BTW the API from nova.api.metadata import password; password.set_password(context, ecrypted_pass) | 17:35 |
| alexpilotti | to be used on the host side to set the password | 17:35 |
| johngarbutt | right, makes sense, thanks | 17:35 |
| johngarbutt | so I guess you want the hypervisor system so you don't need the metadata service | 17:36 |
| alexpilotti | I'm thinking on transforming cloud-init from a simple "inizialize and exit" service to a service that listens all the time for requests | 17:36 |
| alexpilotti | which is similar to the way in which it works on Azure, for example | 17:36 |
| johngarbutt | interesting. where would the requests come from in your case? | 17:36 |
| alexpilotti | setting the password is the most obvious scenario | 17:36 |
| johngarbutt | I guess puppet kick might be another, eventually | 17:37 |
| alexpilotti | with a Nova extension, like the one you are already supporting | 17:37 |
| johngarbutt | I mean, how does cloud-init get communicated to? | 17:37 |
| johngarbutt | does it poll metadata service? does config drive get updated? | 17:38 |
| alexpilotti | I'd like to have an sbstract API on top of each hypervisor's communication channel | 17:38 |
| alexpilotti | let's say a simple value get / set semantyc | 17:38 |
| matelakat | So it's more like an agent :-) | 17:38 |
| johngarbutt | OK, I think that makes sense | 17:38 |
| johngarbutt | have you seen the agent api in xenapi, one sec | 17:38 |
| alexpilotti | with also some event listening channel | 17:39 |
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| matelakat | y, the whole stuff remonds me to the xenapi agent. | 17:39 |
| alexpilotti | johngarbutt: can you sned me a link? | 17:39 |
| johngarbutt | #link https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/virt/xenapi/agent.py | 17:39 |
| matelakat | *reminds | 17:39 |
| pvo | here now… sorry had something run over. | 17:39 |
| alexpilotti | if we can avoid to reivent the well is even better :-) | 17:39 |
| alexpilotti | * wheel, lol | 17:39 |
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| johngarbutt | and on the server side: #link https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/plugins/xenserver/xenapi/etc/xapi.d/plugins/agent | 17:40 |
| johngarbutt | if __name__ == "__main__":    XenAPIPlugin.dispatch(        {"version": version,        "key_init": key_init,        "password": password,        "resetnetwork": resetnetwork,        "inject_file": inject_file,        "agentupdate": agent_update}) | 17:40 |
| johngarbutt | hmm, that is a bit specific I guess | 17:40 |
| alexpilotti | so agent.py runs on the guest? | 17:41 |
| johngarbutt | yes | 17:41 |
| johngarbutt | no | 17:41 |
| johngarbutt | sorry | 17:42 |
| johngarbutt | it runs on the hypervisor as an API extension | 17:42 |
| johngarbutt | along with this code #link https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/plugins/xenserver/xenapi/etc/xapi.d/plugins/xenstore.py | 17:42 |
| johngarbutt | it is called from nova-compute | 17:42 |
| matelakat | Johngarbutt: do you have a link to the agent source code? | 17:42 |
| johngarbutt | basically there is a shared key value store | 17:42 |
| pvo | is it still here? https://launchpad.net/openstack-guest-agents | 17:43 |
| pvo | or moved to github? | 17:43 |
| johngarbutt | http://wiki.openstack.org/GuestAgent | 17:43 |
| pvo | https://github.com/rackspace/openstack-guest-agents-unix | 17:43 |
| johngarbutt | thats the one, cheers | 17:43 |
| matelakat | alexpilotti: does it help? | 17:44 |
| johngarbutt | bit information overload, lets set back a little | 17:44 |
| alexpilotti | looking! | 17:45 |
| johngarbutt | password generate on guest, sent to use encrypted via metadata service: done by nova, cloud-init still needs to support | 17:45 |
| johngarbutt | password generate is triggered by VM start | 17:46 |
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| alexpilotti | got it | 17:46 |
| johngarbutt | at the same time as key injection | 17:46 |
| matelakat | johngarbutt: thanks, that helps, I almost lost the context. | 17:46 |
| johngarbutt | what we need is: | 17:46 |
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| johngarbutt | 1) method to kick off password reset | 17:46 |
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| comstud | (yes, github code is current for agent) | 17:46 |
| johngarbutt | 2) method to send encrypted generated password when not using metadata service | 17:47 |
| johngarbutt | you could do 1 by making cloud init poll the metadata service | 17:47 |
| alexpilotti | 1) I'd go with an extension like "reset-password" or similar | 17:47 |
| johngarbutt | I think vish already almost added that | 17:48 |
| alexpilotti | and use vishy's get-password to retrieve it | 17:48 |
| johngarbutt | clear-password or something? | 17:48 |
| comstud | i think cloud-init is not a daemon today, correct? | 17:48 |
| comstud | ie, just runs once at boot | 17:48 |
| * comstud is not sure | 17:48 | |
| alexpilotti | comstud: correct | 17:48 |
| johngarbutt | right, good point | 17:48 |
| alexpilotti | comstud: and smoser doesn't like the idea of transforming it into an agent | 17:48 |
| johngarbutt | I like the idea of just re-triggering cloud-init in certain cases, and an agent would do that I guess | 17:49 |
| johngarbutt | right, that is worth knowing, thanks | 17:49 |
| alexpilotti | my take is that cloud-init should become a full agent | 17:49 |
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| comstud | switching out the agent for cloud-init affects more than just password reset | 17:49 |
| comstud | it also affects any networking changes that are made | 17:49 |
| johngarbutt | good point | 17:49 |
| comstud | right now we're able to tell the agent to re-configure networking | 17:49 |
| alexpilotti | I'd also fifferentiate the command plugins | 17:50 |
| BobBall | nice word! | 17:50 |
| alexpilotti | lool | 17:50 |
| alexpilotti | forget ny typos :-D | 17:50 |
| johngarbutt | :-) | 17:50 |
| alexpilotti | I'm notoriously a disaster in writing in English quickly :-) | 17:51 |
| johngarbutt | I guess the other point is to get images that can work in more places at once | 17:51 |
| alexpilotti | I should deploy more than 4 fingers probably ;-) | 17:51 |
| alexpilotti | back to the idea | 17:51 |
| alexpilotti | a command can have a property | 17:51 |
| alexpilotti | that indicates if it can be executed only at boot | 17:52 |
| alexpilotti | so for example, password reset could be triggered any time | 17:52 |
| alexpilotti | network injection only at boot, etc | 17:52 |
| pvo | alexpilotti: this is assuming its a daemon, right? | 17:52 |
| johngarbutt | erm, I think we want network reset at other times too, but I see what you mean | 17:52 |
| alexpilotti | that's an option. | 17:52 |
| alexpilotti | pvo ^ | 17:53 |
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| pvo | alexpilotti: how would it get triggered at other times? | 17:53 |
| alexpilotti | pvo: on WIndows it's a service | 17:53 |
| pvo | ok | 17:53 |
| comstud | he's proposing it become a daemon | 17:53 |
| comstud | with certian commands marked as boot-time-only | 17:53 |
| pvo | a Windows service is a daemon, no? | 17:53 |
| matelakat | y | 17:53 |
| comstud | johngarbutt: and yeah, network reconfiguration should be allowed at any time, IMO | 17:53 |
| pvo | (admittedly, its been a while for me and windows) | 17:54 |
| alexpilotti | I'd go with password-reset Nova API extension -> hypervisor sends message via comm channel to guest -> cloud-init agent triggers event -> command plugin execution | 17:54 |
| comstud | this isn't windows 95 where we should have to reboot to get changes. | 17:54 |
| comstud | :) | 17:54 |
| johngarbutt | or windows ME | 17:54 |
| johngarbutt | yew | 17:54 |
| johngarbutt | anyways | 17:54 |
| comstud | ;) | 17:54 |
| alexpilotti | comstud: reemind me to put a flag to set the host on fire if somebody tries to deploy Win95 :-D | 17:54 |
| comstud | heheh | 17:55 |
| BobBall | I miss windows 95... | 17:55 |
| BobBall | But I digress | 17:55 |
| johngarbutt | I think we might need to separate the cloud-init and deamon thingy | 17:55 |
| comstud | I have a windows 3.11 VM.. w/ IE 3. | 17:55 |
| alexpilotti | BobBall: "de gustibus non disputandum est" :-) | 17:55 |
| johngarbutt | could we say there is an agent that kicks cloud-init, for example | 17:55 |
| matelakat | johngarbutt: +1 | 17:55 |
| pvo | johngarbutt: thats kinda what we did on our windows agent. | 17:55 |
| pvo | its two services | 17:55 |
| alexpilotti | johngarbutt: smoser anyway doesnt like the idea | 17:55 |
| pvo | alexpilotti: is that the only reason to kill it? | 17:56 |
| alexpilotti | johngarbutt: on WIndows, I'd prefer to deploy a single WIndows service | 17:56 |
| comstud | I think we do just have an extra agent that can support extra abilities that cloud-init cannot provide | 17:56 |
| matelakat | in XenAPI terms it means agent and configdrive living together? | 17:56 |
| comstud | It's optional... | 17:56 |
| alexpilotti | since cloudbase-init (aka cloud-init for Windows) is already running as a service | 17:56 |
| comstud | if you don't have it in your VM.. you can't password-reset or reconfig networking without rebooting | 17:56 |
| comstud | etc | 17:57 |
| alexpilotti | comstud: correct | 17:57 |
| johngarbutt | I am thinking, what if we start again, what would we build... | 17:57 |
| johngarbutt | good point, it is optional | 17:57 |
| alexpilotti | comstud: IMO "reset-password" shoud throw an Exception if the opration fails | 17:57 |
| comstud | right | 17:57 |
| alexpilotti | due to missing agent code | 17:57 |
| johngarbutt | I guess cloud-init takes configdrive or metadata stuff and does things | 17:57 |
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| alexpilotti | johngarbutt: correct | 17:57 |
| johngarbutt | ideally we would like to add another alternative: hypervisor transport | 17:58 |
| johngarbutt | (such as xenstore) | 17:58 |
| johngarbutt | the other thing is when do start cloud-init | 17:58 |
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| johngarbutt | that is either at boot, or maybe via an agent | 17:58 |
| alexpilotti | My 2c are: configdrive/metadata RO, hypervisor transport RW | 17:58 |
| johngarbutt | what the agent does today could move to a cloud-init plugin? | 17:58 |
| johngarbutt | alexpilotti: good point | 17:59 |
| johngarbutt | (do ping if there is another meeting now) | 17:59 |
| johngarbutt | does that sound crazy or good? | 17:59 |
| alexpilotti | johngarbutt: form a first check, your agent's design looks very similar to cloud-init and cloudbase-init | 17:59 |
| johngarbutt | the agent cloud become part of cloud-init, maybe | 17:59 |
| alexpilotti | smoser: ping | 17:59 |
| comstud | yeah, that's what's been thrown around before | 18:00 |
| alexpilotti | for sure we can at least write a common code base | 18:00 |
| comstud | things that are RO and aren't supported by cloud-init directly can be cloud-init plugins | 18:00 |
| alexpilotti | and if the argument cloud-init <> agent wins | 18:00 |
| comstud | RW is separate agent still, comm via XenStore or whatever secure mechanism if you have to talk between hyp and guest | 18:00 |
| alexpilotti | at least cloud-init and the agent become wrappers on the common code | 18:00 |
| johngarbutt | well password stuff now means metadata can accept data | 18:01 |
| alexpilotti | johngarbutt: I hate it | 18:01 |
| alexpilotti | :-) | 18:01 |
| johngarbutt | but the trigger from a two way channel is the agent | 18:01 |
| smoser | alexpilotti, my ears were ringing. | 18:01 |
| alexpilotti | smoser: hi! | 18:01 |
| alexpilotti | smoser: we are discussing about the old cloud-init vs agent | 18:02 |
| smoser | i just personally do not see much value in an agent that is tied to a hypervisor/cloud-platform. | 18:02 |
| johngarbutt | we are over time here, we might want to nip onto #openstack-nova? | 18:02 |
| alexpilotti | np | 18:02 |
| smoser | sure | 18:02 |
| johngarbutt | thanks all | 18:03 |
| johngarbutt | see some of in the other channel | 18:03 |
| alexpilotti | I suggest -dev, as it's a discussion that might attract more people there | 18:03 |
| johngarbutt | good point | 18:03 |
| johngarbutt | #endmeeting | 18:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 18:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 16 18:03:31 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-01-16-17.03.html | 18:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-01-16-17.03.txt | 18:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-01-16-17.03.log.html | 18:03 |
| matelakat | see you | 18:03 |
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| dosaboy | anyone know if the swift meeting is happening? | 19:10 |
| creiht | dosaboy: next week | 19:11 |
| creiht | it is every other week | 19:11 |
| dosaboy | oh right it was last week | 19:11 |
| dosaboy | k thanks | 19:11 |
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| sdake_z | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 16 20:00:06 2013 UTC. The chair is sdake_z. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
| sdake_z | #topic rolecall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rolecall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| sdake_z | sdake here | 20:00 |
| stevebaker | \o/ | 20:00 |
| shardy | shardy here | 20:00 |
| jpeeler | jpeeler here | 20:00 |
| asalkeld | here | 20:00 |
| shadower | here | 20:01 |
| sdake_z | zane around? | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | he is not online | 20:01 |
| sdake_z | #topic action review | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "action review (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| sdake_z | ya i see must be on extended pto ;) | 20:01 |
| sdake_z | ACTION: git review pluggable-clients (everyone) (stevebaker, 20:23:22) | 20:02 |
| sdake_z | as i recall that patch went in | 20:02 |
| stevebaker | it sure did | 20:02 |
| sdake_z | #info patch merged | 20:02 |
| sdake_z | ACTION: Write blueprints for any current and potential future feature development (everyone) (stevebaker, 20:30:15) | 20:02 |
| sdake_z | i noticed a few more blueprints | 20:03 |
| shardy | added some for updatestack improvements | 20:03 |
| sdake_z | if you have more, please submit and we can take them up in h | 20:03 |
| sdake_z | ACTION: Start moving towards the PTL process (sdake) (stevebaker, 20:35:22) | 20:03 |
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| sdake_z | so started down this path, i'll have more in the meeting | 20:04 |
| sdake_z | #info see meeting topic governance | 20:04 |
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| sdake_z | #topic blueprint review for g3 | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprint review for g3 (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:04 | |
| stevebaker | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 20:05 |
| sdake_z | last meeting I believe we agreed to hold off on new blueprint implementations and focus new features to h1 | 20:05 |
| sdake_z | but we have some blueprints for g3, would like to review | 20:05 |
| sdake_z | https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 20:06 |
| sdake_z | overview page ^ | 20:06 |
| sdake_z | first one up is | 20:06 |
| sdake_z | add a static resource roup | 20:06 |
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| sdake_z | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/static-inst-group | 20:06 |
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| sdake_z | angus, definition is in "new" | 20:06 |
| asalkeld | sorry | 20:07 |
| sdake_z | no problems, should we move to approved? | 20:07 |
| asalkeld | yea we need it | 20:07 |
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| asalkeld | yip | 20:07 |
| sdake_z | #info add a static instance group defn moved to approved | 20:07 |
| sdake_z | rest of the fields look right | 20:07 |
| asalkeld | Moniker resource could be delayed | 20:07 |
| sdake_z | Moniker Resource | 20:07 |
| sdake_z | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/moniker-resource | 20:08 |
| asalkeld | not sure on the status of the client | 20:08 |
| sdake_z | should I bounce out of g3 then? | 20:08 |
| asalkeld | yea | 20:08 |
| sdake_z | we have 5 more weeks to sort thorugh it | 20:08 |
| sdake_z | ok i'll bounce it | 20:08 |
| sdake_z | #action moniker resource delayed because of client issues - targeting to h | 20:09 |
| sdake_z | #undo | 20:09 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x1e36850> | 20:09 |
| sdake_z | action sdake to bounce moniker resource - delayed because of client issues - targeting towards h | 20:09 |
| sdake_z | raw template db | 20:09 |
| sdake_z | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/raw-template-db | 20:09 |
| sdake_z | defn is pending approval | 20:10 |
| sdake_z | any problems with approving? | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | if someone has time to impl. | 20:10 |
| stevebaker | That would be good to do within grizzly since it is changing the db structure | 20:10 |
| sdake_z | agree | 20:10 |
| sdake_z | stevebaker you have time? | 20:11 |
| stevebaker | i think so | 20:11 |
| sdake_z | vpc resources: | 20:11 |
| sdake_z | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/vpc-resources | 20:11 |
| stevebaker | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/grizzly-heat-quantum | 20:12 |
| stevebaker | I was going to pick this up again in this cycle | 20:12 |
| sdake_z | one thing i dont like about the blueprint is the link is to a changing medium | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, need you for presentation | 20:12 |
| sdake_z | can we pull the etherpad into the blueprint? | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | normally you link to a wiki pages | 20:13 |
| stevebaker | the original plan was that others would help with the effort - this would be good since I've made some huge assumptions on the vpn<->quantum mapping that need validation | 20:13 |
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| sdake_z | defn is new - should this move to approved? | 20:13 |
| stevebaker | yep | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | seems big | 20:14 |
| sdake_z | does seem big - what is current state of the impl? | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | maybe it should be a parent blueprint with another blueprint for each resource | 20:14 |
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| asalkeld | good idea | 20:14 |
| shardy | sounds like a good idea | 20:14 |
| sdake_z | yup agreed | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | there is a start, 2 resources so far? | 20:14 |
| sdake_z | we can review this again next week after you have split out the blueprints and then approve at that time | 20:15 |
| sdake_z | #action sdake to review in next weekly meeting vpc resources for moving to defn->approved | 20:15 |
| stevebaker | ok, and we can just do as many as there is time for in the cycle | 20:15 |
| sdake_z | yup | 20:15 |
| shardy | sdake_z: I'd like to add autoscale-update-stack and instance-update-stack to g3, provided I have time to do them | 20:16 |
| shardy | they have been requested by several users | 20:16 |
| sdake_z | jpeeler your up with complete init functionality complete init functionality | 20:16 |
| sdake_z | ok i'll add them to agenda to discuss next | 20:16 |
| asalkeld | choose requested feature first IMO | 20:16 |
| sdake_z | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/aws-cloudformation-init | 20:16 |
| jpeeler | i started it, but shifted over to working on something else | 20:16 |
| jpeeler | "Heat EBS implementation should support Cinder" which is also targetted for g3 | 20:17 |
| sdake_z | ok | 20:17 |
| sdake_z | well will this make g3 then? | 20:17 |
| jpeeler | i think so, it's not that much work | 20:17 |
| sdake_z | ok moving defn to approved | 20:18 |
| sdake_z | #info init moved to approved | 20:18 |
| sdake_z | shardy can you link each blueprint | 20:18 |
| sdake_z | one at a time ;) | 20:18 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/autoscale-update-stack | 20:19 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/instance-update-stack | 20:19 |
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| sdake_z | updatestack for autoscaling: | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | first one should be easy | 20:19 |
| sdake_z | looks good, anyone object? | 20:19 |
| shardy | autoscale should be pretty easy | 20:19 |
| sdake_z | if not, i'll target towards our series goal | 20:19 |
| shardy | instance may be partial, the main feature required is to update metadata for cfn-hup, which again should be pretty easy | 20:20 |
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| sdake_z | #info autoscaling update group accepted as blueprint | 20:20 |
| asalkeld | that would be a good feature | 20:20 |
| shardy | sdake_z: I'll assign to me as I've started looking at both | 20:20 |
| sdake_z | sounds good | 20:21 |
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| sdake_z | #info approved instance updatestack blueprint | 20:21 |
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| sdake_z | ok thats the blueprints | 20:22 |
| sdake_z | #topic bug squashing | 20:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bug squashing (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:22 | |
| sdake_z | we have 40 bugs atm | 20:22 |
| sdake_z | i propose we each assign ourselves 3 bugs 1 high prio 2 medium and work on getting them solved on a weekly basis | 20:23 |
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| sdake_z | any objections? | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | sounds good | 20:24 |
| shardy | +1 | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | looks like some of them should be blueprints | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1083501 | 20:24 |
| shadower | I don't know how much time I'll be able to put into Heat these days but I'll try to help | 20:24 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1083501 in heat "Heat packaging for ubuntu" [High,Triaged] | 20:24 |
| sdake_z | for g3, lets keep them as bugs, in future lets keep blueprints in mind | 20:24 |
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| sdake_z | ok shadower understood | 20:24 |
| shardy | stevebaker: actually I have some (which I raised) which should also be blueprints, e.g: | 20:25 |
| shardy | https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1072952 | 20:25 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1072952 in heat "Implement Rollback feature of AWS API" [Medium,Triaged] | 20:25 |
| sdake_z | #topic governance | 20:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "governance (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:25 | |
| stevebaker | shardy: yeah, thats a huge one ;) | 20:26 |
| sdake_z | i've done a bit of hunting and found this link: #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Governance/TCElectionsFall2012 | 20:26 |
| sdake_z | if you read through that, the key points are 2 weeks of election cycle, 1 week for open candidacy and one week for election period | 20:27 |
| sdake_z | also, ther eare election officials | 20:27 |
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| sdake_z | Monty Taylor has agreed to serve as our election official | 20:27 |
| asalkeld | cool | 20:27 |
| stevebaker | shall we ask ceilometer what they did? I bet it didn't take that long | 20:27 |
| sdake_z | The dates are : Jan 14th-25th open candidacy for heat ptl | 20:27 |
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| sdake_z | jan 26-feb1 heat ptl election | 20:27 |
| sdake_z | part of what we will be evaluated on is how well we can learn openstack processes ;) | 20:28 |
| sdake_z | the voting site is here: | 20:28 |
| sdake_z | #link http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/civs/ | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | true | 20:28 |
| sdake_z | so if we can operate launchpad and the voting site, we are golden ;) | 20:28 |
| sdake_z | any other questions about that? | 20:29 |
| asalkeld | lets do it | 20:29 |
| sdake_z | sounds good | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | ye | 20:29 |
| sdake_z | #topic packaging | 20:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "packaging (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:29 | |
| sdake_z | did you add this stevebaker? | 20:29 |
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| stevebaker | So g-2 packages were blocked on removing the extras dependency | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | the question is, do we create a grizzly branch and backport that change and build packages from that? | 20:30 |
| shardy | stevebaker: are the nightly builds running now? | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | or do we just create packages from master? | 20:30 |
| sdake_z | master imo | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | yep http://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/heat/heat-trunk/ | 20:30 |
| shardy | stevebaker: cool, will try them out :) | 20:31 |
| sdake_z | #info packages to be created from master | 20:31 |
| sdake_z | speaking of packaging we have one bug for an ubuntu ppa | 20:31 |
| sdake_z | mind taking that on stevebaker since your getting involved in ubuntu/deb upstreams? | 20:31 |
| stevebaker | My heat-rpms is diverging a bit, so I'll be asking for a branch merge when g-2 is ready https://github.com/steveb/heat-rpms | 20:31 |
| stevebaker | yep, I'm getting my head around debian/ubuntu as well | 20:32 |
| sdake_z | #action stevebaker to take on ubuntu PPA of heat | 20:32 |
| sdake_z | #topic cfntools integration | 20:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cfntools integration (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:32 | |
| stevebaker | This is also related to packaging | 20:33 |
| stevebaker | here is what I think we should do | 20:33 |
| stevebaker | 1. encourage users to spin their own images which includes packaged heat-cfntools, as well as anything else they need | 20:33 |
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| stevebaker | 2. use cloud-init to check for cfn-*, and install from pypi if not there | 20:34 |
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| asalkeld | I like 2 | 20:34 |
| sdake_z | 2 sounds interesting | 20:34 |
| shardy | +1 | 20:34 |
| sdake_z | need to keep 1 i think | 20:34 |
| sdake_z | ok lets do that - stevebaker taking that on? | 20:35 |
| stevebaker | 3. always install to /usr/bin, and include a script which sets up symlinks to /opt/aws/bin. cloud-init runs this script if necessary <- this is because packages (and pypi) never should install in /opt | 20:35 |
| sdake_z | #info adding cloud-init support for cfntools | 20:35 |
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| asalkeld | stevebaker, what ever - the setup.py can do that | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | install to /opt/aws or link to it | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | but packages can't, not if we want the package to be in official repos | 20:36 |
| sdake_z | asalkeld i think sbaker is talking about option 3 | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | debian already said no ;) | 20:36 |
| sdake_z | ya packaging in opt is a hot topic ;) | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | well then the cloud-init script could do that | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | (make the links) | 20:37 |
| sdake_z | ya we can upload a handler for that | 20:37 |
| sdake_z | ok all set then? | 20:37 |
| stevebaker | yep | 20:37 |
| sdake_z | #topic open discussion | 20:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:38 | |
| sdake_z | sending out agenda before meeting - not sure this has been happening | 20:38 |
| * asalkeld super lazy | 20:38 | |
| sdake_z | i'll take that on, but need folks to add their agenda items on Tuesday before 2000 UTC | 20:38 |
| sdake_z | and then I'll mail out notes at conclusion of meeting | 20:39 |
| sdake_z | thats all I have for open discussion anyone else? | 20:39 |
| SpamapS | hm | 20:39 |
| stevebaker | any issues running heat on f18 so far? | 20:39 |
| SpamapS | sorry I came late | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | hi SpamapS | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | we are in open discussion | 20:39 |
| SpamapS | are we drafting/filing blueprints for discussion at the summit now? | 20:40 |
| sdake_z | still time in the meeting slot | 20:40 |
| asalkeld | yip, you got time | 20:40 |
| shadower | stevebaker, I had trouble getting devstack to work today, will get it and Heat sorted tomorrow | 20:40 |
| sdake_z | the basic idea is we will draft now, and discuss at summit | 20:40 |
| shardy | SpamapS: we added the updatestack autoscaling and instance metadata blueprints, which we discussed recently, for g-3 | 20:40 |
| sdake_z | and assign to h1/h2/h3 | 20:40 |
| SpamapS | shardy: woot | 20:40 |
| SpamapS | I'd also like to file one on performance | 20:40 |
| sdake_z | if there is something that makes heat broken without it, bring it up and we can see about fitting it in | 20:40 |
| sdake_z | but we have a pretty tight schedule | 20:41 |
| sdake_z | feb21 is our deadline for our 8 bps and 40 bugs | 20:41 |
| SpamapS | specifically on measuring it during CI so we can improve it. | 20:41 |
| SpamapS | sdake_z: is there a need for general bug fixing? Like, should I just go pop a few off the stack of medium priority bugs? | 20:42 |
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| sdake_z | that would be great! | 20:42 |
| sdake_z | we have a ton of bugs and devs pretty thin on time | 20:42 |
| SpamapS | mmk I'll look at doing that when next I'm blocked.. which happens a lot ;) | 20:42 |
| SpamapS | thats all I had | 20:42 |
| sdake_z | #info spamaps to pick a few bugs up in spare cycles | 20:43 |
| sdake_z | anything else for open discussion? | 20:43 |
| sdake_z | ok well thanks folks | 20:43 |
| sdake_z | #endmeeting | 20:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 20:43 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 16 20:43:38 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:43 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-01-16-20.00.html | 20:43 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-01-16-20.00.txt | 20:43 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-01-16-20.00.log.html | 20:43 |
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| nijaba | #startmeeting Ceilometer | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 16 21:00:01 2013 UTC. The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| nijaba | #meetingtopic Ceilometer | 21:00 |
| nijaba | #chair nijaba | 21:00 |
| nijaba | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/MeteringAgenda | 21:00 |
| nijaba | ATTENTION: please keep discussion focused on topic until we reach the open discussion topic | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Current chairs: nijaba | 21:00 |
| nijaba | Hello everyone! Show of hands, who is around for the ceilometer meeting? | 21:00 |
| nijaba | o/ | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:00 |
| n0ano | o/ | 21:00 |
| egallen | o/ | 21:00 |
| eglynn_ | o/ | 21:00 |
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| nijaba | #topic actions from previous meeting | 21:00 |
| danspraggins | o/ | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:00 | |
| danflorea | o/ | 21:00 |
| nijaba | #topic llu to get in touch with the healthmon team to see what their reaction is to our plan for integration, putting the ml in cc | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "llu to get in touch with the healthmon team to see what their reaction is to our plan for integration, putting the ml in cc (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:01 | |
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| nijaba | That was done, we saw a few exchanges on the ml. I don't think llu can join us at this time. | 21:01 |
| nijaba | #topic nijaba to make the api-aggregate-average bp a dep for v2 api | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to make the api-aggregate-average bp a dep for v2 api (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:01 | |
| jd__ | o/ | 21:01 |
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| fnaval | o/ | 21:01 |
| nijaba | That was done as well. | 21:01 |
| nijaba | #topic nijaba to prepare a blogpost announcing the release | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to prepare a blogpost announcing the release (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:01 | |
| nijaba | That was published on monday | 21:02 |
| nijaba | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+announcement/11069 | 21:02 |
| eglynn | yay! | 21:02 |
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| nijaba | We'll be talking a bit about the release shortly | 21:02 |
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| nijaba | #topic nijaba to start a thread on ml about unit policy | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to start a thread on ml about unit policy (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:02 | |
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| nijaba | Thread was started yesterday. We'll talk about it a bit more in a minute. | 21:03 |
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| nijaba | That's it for last week action | 21:03 |
| nijaba | #topic Units discussion | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Units discussion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:03 | |
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| nijaba | so, any progress on this? | 21:03 |
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| jd__ | I think we all more or less agree on the same things | 21:04 |
| eglynn | didn't we agree to go with specific units for counts at last week's meeting? | 21:04 |
| jd__ | we did | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | I believe that's right | 21:04 |
| nijaba | we did, but we still had not closed on the discussion | 21:04 |
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| nijaba | and I think we should write up the policy for future ref | 21:05 |
| nijaba | any volumteer to start a wiki page? | 21:05 |
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| nijaba | I guess not. So I'll take the action | 21:06 |
| jd__ | oh too many candidates, shall we vote? | 21:06 |
| jd__ | :-D | 21:06 |
| * eglynn confused on the all units should be integers|floats point | 21:06 | |
| Shengjie_home | wiki for all the meters' units ? | 21:06 |
| * dhellmann was distracted by the sound of crickets | 21:06 | |
| jd__ | dhellmann: lamest excuse *ever* | 21:07 |
| nijaba | #action nijaba to specify draft policy on wiki for units | 21:07 |
| jd__ | eglynn: what confuses you? | 21:07 |
| eglynn | surely units are just labels without a intrinsic numeric value? | 21:07 |
| jd__ | I think nijaba meant volume | 21:07 |
| eglynn | a-ha, I see | 21:08 |
| eglynn | got it ... | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | so we agree to count things using numbers? :-) | 21:08 |
| nijaba | jd__: right | 21:08 |
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| nijaba | yeah!!! | 21:08 |
| jd__ | i.e. you can't have 'foobar' 'meters' | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | sure | 21:08 |
| eglynn | s/Units should always be [integer|floats]/the values associated with units should always be [integer|floats]/ | 21:08 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: that's how far we went :) | 21:08 |
| jd__ | next week debate, should we use base 10 ? | 21:09 |
| nijaba | lol | 21:09 |
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| nijaba | ok, let's move on then | 21:09 |
| danflorea | Hi. I'm a new guy here. I can help with docs as I learn, so I'm happy to help. Just don't want to take a lead on things I know nothing about. But I can assist if guided.. | 21:09 |
| nijaba | #topic G3 blueprint review | 21:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "G3 blueprint review (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:09 | |
| dhellmann | jd__: please wait until april 1 to propose the move to base 2 | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | hi, DanFlorea, welcome! | 21:10 |
| nijaba | so we have 28 unimplemented bp with grizzly as a target | 21:10 |
| eglynn | welcome+1 | 21:10 |
| danflorea | thanks! | 21:10 |
| eglynn | slow progress on the synaps blueprints | 21:10 |
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| eglynn | I've been dragged off doing some glance work for the last week or so | 21:10 |
| jd__ | hi danflorea, welcome | 21:10 |
| eglynn | but will be back on it from about Friday of this week | 21:10 |
| nijaba | we should start cleaning this up as feb 21 sounds like a month away | 21:11 |
| eglynn | nijaba: any response to your call for volunteers? | 21:11 |
| nijaba | if you know of stuff you won't be able to complete in the next month, please let me know | 21:11 |
| nijaba | eglynn: none | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: is there an easy way to get that list of blueprints out of launchpad? | 21:11 |
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| eglynn | danflorea: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-January/004398.html | 21:11 |
| jd__ | nijaba: I think https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/provide-meter-units is done now? | 21:12 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/grizzly | 21:12 |
| eglynn | danflorea: something may catch your eye in the the above list of unassigned work | 21:12 |
| danflorea | ok, great | 21:12 |
| nijaba | jd__: updated | 21:13 |
| nijaba | anything else that I should update? any bp that I should push to H? | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/config-driven-notification-monitoring can be closed entirely | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | it is obsoleted by the multipublisher work | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | which is covered better elsewhere | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | I will close it | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | oh, actually, I can't change its status | 21:14 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: done | 21:15 |
| nealph | nijaba: will you be updating that list as people sign up? | 21:15 |
| nijaba | nealph: yes | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: I suspect we should remove rpc-zeromq as well | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | is anyone actively working on non-libvirt-hw? | 21:16 |
| Shengjie_home | jd__: if I am targeting G3, can I change the milestone for the bp myself | 21:16 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: push to H? | 21:16 |
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| eglynn | +1 on remove zmq | 21:16 |
| jd__ | Shengjie_home: not sure, ask for someone to do it | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: let's leave it unassigned | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: I would rather have someone interested in zeromq step up to help | 21:16 |
| nijaba | Shengjie_home: not if your are not a driver I am afraid. ping me, or one of the core devs | 21:16 |
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| Shengjie_home | nijaba: k, i will take it offline | 21:17 |
| jtran | dhellmann: i might be interested in that one | 21:17 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: done | 21:17 |
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| dhellmann | jtran: for grizzly or later? | 21:17 |
| jtran | sure, why not :) | 21:17 |
| jtran | grizzly | 21:17 |
| nijaba | jtran: let me know | 21:18 |
| jtran | i'll give you a more concrete answer in a couple days | 21:18 |
| jtran | nijaba: will do! | 21:18 |
| nijaba | np | 21:18 |
| eglynn | non-libvirt-hw is more do-able now with with the inspector abstraction, but it should be split into per-hypervisor BPs I think | 21:18 |
| nijaba | eglynn: it is already | 21:18 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: rpc-qpid is much like rpc-zeromq | 21:19 |
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| nijaba | eglynn: I'll let you decide on that one | 21:19 |
| nijaba | (qpid) | 21:19 |
| eglynn | nijaba: I'll see if I hand it off to another red hatter | 21:20 |
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| nijaba | eglynn: I'll keep it as is for now then | 21:20 |
| eglynn | k | 21:20 |
| nijaba | anything else? | 21:20 |
| nijaba | I geuss not. let's move on | 21:21 |
| nijaba | #topic Discuss downstream packaging efforts underway, identify potential problematic dependencies | 21:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss downstream packaging efforts underway, identify potential problematic dependencies (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:21 | |
| nijaba | eglynn: the floor is yours | 21:21 |
| eglynn | k, so we cranking up to attack the fedora/epel/rhel aspects of packaging ceilometer | 21:22 |
| nijaba | \o/ | 21:22 |
| eglynn | but I noticed that some prior work had been done on deb/ubuntu packaging | 21:22 |
| nijaba | it has | 21:22 |
| nijaba | zul and zigo | 21:22 |
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| eglynn | so I want at least to establish a conduit for sharing experience etc. | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 21:23 |
| eglynn | one big question is whether the deb work pre-dated the flask->pecan switch | 21:23 |
| nijaba | both are pretty active on openstack in general, so they read the ml | 21:23 |
| jd__ | eglynn: yes and it has been updated since too | 21:23 |
| eglynn | cool | 21:24 |
| eglynn | the other thing two things I had in mind | 21:24 |
| eglynn | 1. the ceilo client will need to be packaged also | 21:24 |
| nijaba | I beleive we have a deb for it | 21:24 |
| eglynn | 2. we have some 'bleeding edge' dependencies, e.g. WSME | 21:24 |
| jd__ | we have a .deb for python-ceilometerclient too | 21:25 |
| eglynn | by bleeding edge I mean that we rely on some unrelease fixes on trunk | 21:25 |
| eglynn | jd__: great | 21:25 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: what's the status on this? | 21:25 |
| jd__ | yeah, that's a problem even for Debian, we don't have that yet | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: I'm on the hook to talk to Christophe about that already for our internal packaging at DH | 21:25 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: so waht would be a good cut-off point for that release? | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | I believe I owe him one doc patch, and then he and I need to figure out what to do about the auto-generated docs for the ceilometer api | 21:25 |
| eglynn | I thing asalkeld has some recently proposed patches also | 21:26 |
| eglynn | s/thing/think/ | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: for wsme? I wasn't aware of that | 21:26 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: at least I thought that's what he said | 21:26 |
| * eglynn may have misheard ... | 21:26 | |
| dhellmann | you might be thinking of pecan, which is in a similar situation | 21:26 |
| * nijaba surprised asakeld is not around | 21:26 | |
| dhellmann | although the pecan maintainer is my manager, so I can get a release done on fairly short order | 21:27 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: a-ha, yes, you could be right | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | we work with the current version of pecan, but we wanted an config option to completely turn off content-type guessing based on url extension | 21:27 |
| eglynn | ok | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | I have that on my todo list, too, but got a little wrapped up in internal stuff this week | 21:27 |
| eglynn | so apart from pecan and WSME, are there any other lurking banana skins in the current set of dependencies? | 21:28 |
| eglynn | (obviously a bunch of other wrinkles in the synaps stuff, but lets limit to trunk for now) | 21:28 |
| nijaba | zul: around? anything worth noting? | 21:29 |
| jd__ | eglynn: I don't think so | 21:29 |
| eglynn | was the webob 1.2.x thing the major transitive dependency version mismatch for example? | 21:29 |
| eglynn | k | 21:29 |
| jd__ | eglynn: maybe stevedore if you don't have this as RPM yet | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that was the only cross-project dependency with an issue afaik | 21:29 |
| eglynn | jd__: k, I'll check out the stevedore aspect | 21:29 |
| eglynn | great, sounds like we're in (slightly) better shape than I thought :) | 21:30 |
| jd__ | eglynn: but it's a really trivial standard Python package so not a blocker | 21:30 |
| * eglynn ever the optimist ;) | 21:30 | |
| jd__ | :-) | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | oh, yeah, stevedore is unlikely to be an rpm yet | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | let me know if you have any issues packaging that, eglynn | 21:30 |
| eglynn | cool, will do | 21:31 |
| eglynn | I'll reach out to zul & zigo too to pick their brains | 21:31 |
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| nijaba | anything else on packaging? | 21:32 |
| eglynn | MING is just for testing, right? | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: yes | 21:32 |
| eglynn | i.e. not a runtime dependency in any form? | 21:32 |
| eglynn | cool | 21:32 |
| nijaba | shall we move on to open discussion? | 21:33 |
| eglynn | yep, thanks all for the info above ... | 21:33 |
| nijaba | #topic Open discussion | 21:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 21:33 | |
| nijaba | topics, anyone? | 21:33 |
| nijaba | huh, looks like we are going to finish this meeting early | 21:34 |
| nijaba | that's unusual! | 21:34 |
| jd__ | but that's how we are | 21:34 |
| Shengjie_home | nijaba: can u send us the link for units once you are done with that wiki | 21:34 |
| Shengjie_home | thanks | 21:34 |
| eglynn | quick, run before anyone thinks of anything ;) | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | oh, here's one: we need folks to look over the v2 flattening changeset | 21:34 |
| nijaba | Shengjie_home: sure | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/19615/ | 21:35 |
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| nijaba | that's a large one | 21:35 |
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| dhellmann | most of the changes are updating the tests to reflect the new urls | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | but we did rearrange and squash a good bit of code in the v2.py file as well | 21:36 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: I'll re-look again tomorrow | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | jd__: thanks | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | I hesitate to +2 it myself because I worked with asalkeld on it | 21:36 |
| eglynn | I'll try to fit in a review tmrw too | 21:36 |
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| nijaba | anything else? | 21:38 |
| * dhellmann shakes head | 21:38 | |
| eglynn | nowt from me | 21:38 |
| nijaba | ok, nice and short! Thanks everyone | 21:38 |
| nijaba | #endmeeting | 21:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:38 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 16 21:38:58 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:39 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-01-16-21.00.html | 21:39 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-01-16-21.00.txt | 21:39 |
| jd__ | thanks! | 21:39 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-01-16-21.00.log.html | 21:39 |
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