Thursday, 2013-01-24

*** ryanpetr_ has joined #openstack-meeting00:00
*** ryanpetrello has quit IRC00:03
*** yaguang has quit IRC00:03
*** thunquest has quit IRC00:03
*** henrynash has quit IRC00:06
*** stevebaker has quit IRC00:06
*** diogogmt has quit IRC00:08
*** kebray has quit IRC00:10
*** fnaval has joined #openstack-meeting00:13
*** fnaval has quit IRC00:13
*** fnaval has joined #openstack-meeting00:13
*** rnirmal has quit IRC00:15
*** lbragstad has quit IRC00:18
*** vipul is now known as vipul|away00:20
*** lbragstad has joined #openstack-meeting00:22
*** jcmartin has quit IRC00:22
*** jcmartin has joined #openstack-meeting00:23
*** vipul|away is now known as vipul00:28
*** lbragstad has quit IRC00:29
*** krtaylor has joined #openstack-meeting00:31
*** salv-orlando has quit IRC00:35
*** iben1 has quit IRC00:36
*** annegentle has joined #openstack-meeting00:37
*** anniec has quit IRC00:37
*** juice has quit IRC00:38
*** sdake_z has quit IRC00:40
*** ryanpetr_ has quit IRC00:40
*** anniec has joined #openstack-meeting00:40
*** mrodden has quit IRC00:41
*** markvoelker has joined #openstack-meeting00:43
*** iben has joined #openstack-meeting00:43
*** galthaus has joined #openstack-meeting00:47
*** sdake_z has joined #openstack-meeting00:47
*** markvoelker has quit IRC00:47
*** dolphm has quit IRC00:49
*** danwent has quit IRC00:51
*** galthaus has quit IRC00:52
*** juice has joined #openstack-meeting00:54
*** sarob_ has quit IRC00:58
*** lbragstad has joined #openstack-meeting01:00
*** ozstacker has quit IRC01:01
*** ozstacker has joined #openstack-meeting01:02
*** roaet is now known as roaet-away01:07
*** jkyle has joined #openstack-meeting01:12
*** sdake_z has quit IRC01:12
*** annegentle has quit IRC01:16
*** woodspa has quit IRC01:16
*** mrodden has joined #openstack-meeting01:17
*** mrodden1 has joined #openstack-meeting01:18
*** markvoelker has joined #openstack-meeting01:22
*** hemna is now known as hemnafk01:23
*** markvoelker has quit IRC01:23
*** blamar has joined #openstack-meeting01:25
*** danwent has joined #openstack-meeting01:26
*** ayoung has quit IRC01:27
*** Edward_Zhang has joined #openstack-meeting01:27
*** zhuadl_ has joined #openstack-meeting01:27
*** zhuadl_ is now known as zhuadl01:28
*** bdpayne has quit IRC01:28
*** zbitter has joined #openstack-meeting01:28
*** zaneb has quit IRC01:31
*** zaneb has joined #openstack-meeting01:36
*** ryanpetrello has joined #openstack-meeting01:36
*** ewindisch has quit IRC01:38
*** zbitter has quit IRC01:38
*** adjohn has quit IRC01:39
*** yamahata_ has quit IRC01:51
*** galthaus has joined #openstack-meeting01:51
*** yamahata_ has joined #openstack-meeting01:55
*** galthaus has quit IRC01:56
*** danwent has quit IRC02:00
*** dolphm has joined #openstack-meeting02:03
*** markmcclain has quit IRC02:08
*** jcmartin has quit IRC02:11
*** reed has joined #openstack-meeting02:11
*** topol has joined #openstack-meeting02:26
*** novas0x2a|laptop has quit IRC02:42
*** Mandell has quit IRC02:42
*** psedlak has joined #openstack-meeting02:43
*** adjohn has joined #openstack-meeting02:49
*** jdurgin1 has quit IRC02:51
*** ryanpetrello has quit IRC02:53
*** blamar has quit IRC02:55
*** jog0 has joined #openstack-meeting02:58
*** galthaus has joined #openstack-meeting03:04
*** mtesauro has joined #openstack-meeting03:06
*** ewindisch has joined #openstack-meeting03:07
*** mtesauro has left #openstack-meeting03:08
*** jbrogan has quit IRC03:08
*** psedlak has quit IRC03:18
*** anniec has quit IRC03:21
*** jog0 has quit IRC03:36
*** ladquin_brb has quit IRC03:39
*** metral has quit IRC03:42
*** stevebaker has joined #openstack-meeting03:42
*** ryanpetrello has joined #openstack-meeting03:55
*** dolphm has quit IRC04:02
*** acemid has quit IRC04:02
*** acemid has joined #openstack-meeting04:08
*** Edward_Zhang has quit IRC04:14
*** zhuadl has quit IRC04:15
*** mrodden has joined #openstack-meeting04:18
*** mrodden1 has quit IRC04:20
*** dolphm has joined #openstack-meeting04:25
*** juice has quit IRC04:29
*** otherwiseguy has quit IRC04:31
*** stevebaker has quit IRC04:35
*** stevebaker has joined #openstack-meeting04:35
*** vishy is now known as vishy_zz04:37
*** yaguang has joined #openstack-meeting04:39
*** Mandell has joined #openstack-meeting04:43
*** metral has joined #openstack-meeting04:45
*** stevebaker has quit IRC04:47
*** jcmartin has joined #openstack-meeting04:47
*** koolhead17 has joined #openstack-meeting04:50
*** zhuadl has joined #openstack-meeting04:50
*** Edward_Zhang has joined #openstack-meeting04:50
*** danwent has joined #openstack-meeting04:50
*** ryanpetrello has quit IRC04:57
*** iben has left #openstack-meeting05:00
*** juice has joined #openstack-meeting05:01
*** yaguang has quit IRC05:06
*** ryanpetrello has joined #openstack-meeting05:19
*** bencherian has quit IRC05:20
*** afazekas has joined #openstack-meeting05:26
*** Edward_Zhang has quit IRC05:26
*** zhuadl has quit IRC05:27
*** acemid has quit IRC06:03
*** acemid has joined #openstack-meeting06:07
*** topol has quit IRC06:10
*** yamahata_ has quit IRC06:12
*** koolhead17 has quit IRC06:14
*** dolphm has quit IRC06:18
*** ryanpetrello has quit IRC06:31
*** vishy_zz is now known as vishy06:31
*** juice has quit IRC06:35
*** mrlaw has joined #openstack-meeting06:37
*** juice has joined #openstack-meeting06:38
*** nati_ueno has joined #openstack-meeting06:38
*** garyk has quit IRC06:38
*** mrlaw has left #openstack-meeting06:41
*** almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan06:47
*** afazekas has quit IRC06:47
*** al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away06:51
*** dosaboy has quit IRC06:55
*** alrs has quit IRC07:00
*** alrs has joined #openstack-meeting07:00
*** mrunge has joined #openstack-meeting07:01
*** ewindisch has quit IRC07:03
*** bencherian has joined #openstack-meeting07:04
*** martine_ has joined #openstack-meeting07:13
*** martine has quit IRC07:17
*** nati_ueno has quit IRC07:28
*** juice has quit IRC07:29
*** nati_ueno has joined #openstack-meeting07:33
*** juice has joined #openstack-meeting07:35
*** afazekas has joined #openstack-meeting07:42
*** bencherian has quit IRC07:54
*** juice has quit IRC07:57
*** juice has joined #openstack-meeting07:58
*** rafaduran has joined #openstack-meeting07:59
*** Mandell has quit IRC08:08
*** salv-orlando has joined #openstack-meeting08:10
*** Mandell_ has joined #openstack-meeting08:13
*** bencherian has joined #openstack-meeting08:19
*** garyk has joined #openstack-meeting08:27
*** danwent has quit IRC08:27
*** ndipanov has joined #openstack-meeting08:29
*** ijw has joined #openstack-meeting08:30
*** juice has quit IRC08:36
*** henrynash has joined #openstack-meeting08:42
*** shang has joined #openstack-meeting08:53
*** GheRivero_afk is now known as GheRivero08:57
*** ttrifonov_zZzz is now known as ttrifonov09:21
*** jhenner has joined #openstack-meeting09:25
*** ttrifonov is now known as ttrifonov_zZzz09:28
*** adjohn has quit IRC09:29
*** ttrifonov_zZzz is now known as ttrifonov09:29
*** darraghb has joined #openstack-meeting09:36
*** Mandell_ has quit IRC09:38
*** psedlak has joined #openstack-meeting09:39
*** alexpilotti has joined #openstack-meeting09:43
*** derekh has joined #openstack-meeting09:46
*** Nachi has joined #openstack-meeting09:49
*** nati_ueno has quit IRC09:51
*** psedlak|2 has joined #openstack-meeting09:56
*** psedlak|2 has quit IRC09:56
*** psedlak has quit IRC09:56
*** psedlak has joined #openstack-meeting09:57
*** BobBallAway is now known as BobBall09:59
*** ijw has quit IRC10:37
*** adjohn has joined #openstack-meeting10:39
*** salv-orlando has quit IRC10:40
*** ijw has joined #openstack-meeting10:41
*** adjohn has quit IRC10:44
*** ociuhandu has quit IRC10:48
*** ociuhandu has joined #openstack-meeting10:53
*** ociuhandu_ has joined #openstack-meeting10:56
*** spn has quit IRC10:59
*** ociuhandu has quit IRC10:59
*** ociuhandu_ is now known as ociuhandu10:59
*** spn has joined #openstack-meeting10:59
*** salv-orlando has joined #openstack-meeting10:59
*** ociuhandu_ has joined #openstack-meeting11:12
*** ociuhandu has quit IRC11:13
*** ociuhandu_ is now known as ociuhandu11:13
*** ijw has quit IRC11:22
*** alexpilotti has quit IRC11:26
*** shang has quit IRC11:27
*** shang has joined #openstack-meeting11:28
*** shang has quit IRC11:29
*** shang has joined #openstack-meeting11:29
*** alexpilotti has joined #openstack-meeting11:29
*** mrunge has quit IRC11:33
*** mrunge has joined #openstack-meeting11:39
*** rafaduran1 has joined #openstack-meeting11:40
*** rafaduran1 has left #openstack-meeting11:41
*** rafaduran has quit IRC11:42
*** Nachi has quit IRC11:45
*** nati_ueno has joined #openstack-meeting11:46
*** maurosr has joined #openstack-meeting11:52
*** yamahata_ has joined #openstack-meeting11:54
*** Nachi has joined #openstack-meeting11:55
*** nati_ueno has quit IRC11:56
*** vkmc has joined #openstack-meeting12:00
*** vishy is now known as vishy_zz12:14
*** shang has quit IRC12:25
*** shang has joined #openstack-meeting12:26
*** nati_ueno has joined #openstack-meeting12:33
*** Nachi has quit IRC12:34
*** Nachi has joined #openstack-meeting12:44
*** nati_ueno has quit IRC12:45
*** Nachi has quit IRC12:51
*** nati_ueno has joined #openstack-meeting12:52
*** vkmc has quit IRC12:54
*** mrunge has quit IRC12:55
*** shang has quit IRC12:59
*** shang has joined #openstack-meeting13:00
*** topol has joined #openstack-meeting13:13
*** ryanpetrello has joined #openstack-meeting13:20
*** ryanpetrello has quit IRC13:22
*** shang has quit IRC13:25
*** shang has joined #openstack-meeting13:26
*** markvoelker has joined #openstack-meeting13:27
*** almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan13:48
*** sandywalsh has joined #openstack-meeting13:50
*** galthaus has quit IRC13:53
*** nati_ueno has quit IRC13:55
*** nati_ueno has joined #openstack-meeting13:55
*** joesavak has joined #openstack-meeting14:10
*** lbragstad has quit IRC14:15
*** dwcramer has quit IRC14:17
*** markmcclain has joined #openstack-meeting14:18
*** roaet-away is now known as roaet14:20
*** fnaval has quit IRC14:22
*** markmcclain has quit IRC14:22
*** anniec has joined #openstack-meeting14:23
*** YehiaBeyh has joined #openstack-meeting14:23
*** woodspa has joined #openstack-meeting14:25
*** anniec has quit IRC14:25
*** anniec has joined #openstack-meeting14:26
*** frankm has quit IRC14:28
*** Nachi has joined #openstack-meeting14:31
*** nati_ueno has quit IRC14:33
*** lbragstad has joined #openstack-meeting14:33
*** jog0 has joined #openstack-meeting14:33
*** markvan has joined #openstack-meeting14:33
*** yjiang5_home has joined #openstack-meeting14:43
*** ayoung has joined #openstack-meeting14:45
*** lbragstad has quit IRC14:48
*** markvan has quit IRC14:52
*** shang has quit IRC14:52
*** mdomsch has joined #openstack-meeting14:52
*** dosaboy has joined #openstack-meeting14:54
*** dhellmann has joined #openstack-meeting14:54
*** shang has joined #openstack-meeting14:54
*** galthaus has joined #openstack-meeting14:55
*** fnaval has joined #openstack-meeting14:55
*** jhopper has joined #openstack-meeting14:56
*** ryanpetrello has joined #openstack-meeting14:56
*** rnirmal has joined #openstack-meeting14:56
*** yaguang has joined #openstack-meeting14:57
*** n0ano has joined #openstack-meeting14:57
*** mtreinish has joined #openstack-meeting14:57
*** radez_g0n3 is now known as radez14:57
*** divakar has joined #openstack-meeting14:58
*** dtalton has joined #openstack-meeting14:59
nijaba#startmeeting Ceilometer15:00
nijaba#meetingtopic Ceilometer15:00
nijaba#chair nijaba15:00
nijabaATTENTION: please keep discussion focused on topic until we reach the open discussion topic15:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 24 15:00:07 2013 UTC.  The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:00
openstackCurrent chairs: nijaba15:00
*** yaguang has quit IRC15:00
nijabaHello everyone! Show of hands, who is around for the ceilometer meeting?15:00
*** danspraggins has joined #openstack-meeting15:00
*** jaypipes has quit IRC15:00
*** llu-laptop has joined #openstack-meeting15:00
nijabagood to see everyone and new faces !15:01
*** eglynn has joined #openstack-meeting15:01
* jd__ sees new hands15:01
nijaba#topic actions from previous meeting15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:01
nijaba#topic nijaba to specify draft policy on wiki for units15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to specify draft policy on wiki for units (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:01
*** yaguang has joined #openstack-meeting15:01
* dragondm waves hi15:01
* nijaba has been a bad boy and has not had time to work on this15:01
nijaba#action nijaba to specify draft policy on wiki for units15:02
*** nealph has joined #openstack-meeting15:02
nijabaThat's it for last week15:02
nijaba#topic  relevance of
*** openstack changes topic to "relevance of (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:02
nijabajd__: floor is yours15:02
YehiaBeyhthere was an action "llu to get in touch with the healthmon team to see what their reaction is to our plan for integration, putting the ml in cc". Divakar was trying to setup a meeting to go over the plan - any luck on this?15:02
divakarI have updated the ceilometer wiki with the healthnmon plans
* jd__ let the floor to YehiaBeyh and divakar 15:03
*** eharney has joined #openstack-meeting15:04
*** eharney has joined #openstack-meeting15:04
llu-laptopi'm looking at the wiki15:04
divakarAs per my proposal15:04
divakarHealthnmon as the source of metering data (for compute to start with)15:04
*** APMelton12 has joined #openstack-meeting15:05
divakarHealthnmon currently has implemented drivers for KVM to collect the required meters data for both Compute and Instances running on the compute remotely. The same data can be leveraged by Ceilometer thru Healthnmon APIs as initial step15:05
*** annegentle has joined #openstack-meeting15:05
divakarCeilometer Centralized Agent mechanism can be leveraged to pull the required metering data from Healthnmon15:05
*** diogogmt has joined #openstack-meeting15:06
*** markmcclain has joined #openstack-meeting15:06
divakarHealthnmon is working on the required drivers for vCenter ESX and Hyper-V as well15:06
*** sew has joined #openstack-meeting15:06
dhellmannso this plan is the opposite of the plan we've discussed previously?15:07
divakarCollecting the data from healthnmon would help in getting the data for all the hypervisors15:07
divakarthat are supported thru openstack15:07
*** n0ano has joined #openstack-meeting15:07
dhellmannwe need drivers for all of the hypervisors for metering, so we need to implement those in ceilometer at some point anyway15:07
nijabadhellmann: this is what it sounds like15:07
spnAre you are talking about some virch url://of-some-remote-hypversir?15:07
sandywalsh(belated o/)15:08
jd__I don't think it buys anything to use healthnmon as another abstraction layer for that15:08
dhellmannjd__: agreed15:08
*** shang has quit IRC15:08
nijabajd__: +115:08
dragondmI've been looking at implementing for xenserver...15:09
jd__I admit it can be a good source of information, but we want to support the hypervisors Nova does directly15:09
YehiaBeyhhow is the plan different from what was discussed previously?15:09
dhellmanndivakar: can you discuss a bit your objections with the plan described in 6.1 and 6.2 of the wiki page?15:09
*** diogogmt has quit IRC15:09
dhellmannYehiaBeyh: in the previous plan the data would flow from ceilometer to healthnmon, in the new plan that is reversed15:09
sandywalshcan we not do this through the existing hypervisor polling mechanism in Nova and not require the agent (or have to depend on healthmon) for it?15:10
dhellmannthat really only works for deployments where the admins want both healthnmon monitoring and ceilometer metering15:10
dhellmannsandywalsh: the plan is to get a version of that code in ceilometer and take it out of nova15:10
dhellmannsandywalsh: that's probably at least an H change for nova15:10
jd__sandywalsh: there isn't such polling for now AFAIK15:10
divakarAs part of healthnmon we are already collecting the inventory data + alerting + utilization data (meters)15:10
*** diogogmt has joined #openstack-meeting15:11
sandywalshjd__: yup, we use it15:11
jd__sandywalsh: you retrieve CPU time and disk IO from nova ?15:11
dragondmwe already poll in nova for bw data15:11
sandywalshjd__: whatever the hypervisor offers15:11
sandywalshjd__: essentially, whatever the agent is doing, we can do in the polling15:11
dragondmthe low level code for disk/cpu is there15:11
divakarSo healthnmon has the required data for making the decisions while scheduling,  monitoring, metering and also for analytics15:12
dragondmwe  just need to emit it.15:12
eglynndragondm: I believe those bw stats only reported by the xenapi driver though15:12
dhellmannhey, folks, let's please focus on divakar's proposal for now15:12
dhellmannwe can discuss APIs in a bit15:12
sandywalshdhellmann: it's related is it not?15:12
dhellmannsandywalsh: one thing at a time15:12
divakarLet me summarize15:12
divakarhealthnmon has the required data for making the decisions while scheduling,  monitoring, metering and also for analytics15:13
*** markvan has joined #openstack-meeting15:13
divakarWe are looking at providing a single point of data around monitoring, scheduling and support for use cases around analytics, autonomics and planning15:13
dhellmanndivakar: that "single point" is overlapping with a couple of other projects at this point :-)15:14
divakarmetering also can be driven from this data and hence the proposal15:14
divakarAt this point I see that Heat is looking for scheduling data + alerting data which can be integrated as well15:15
nijabayes, it seems that we are hitting again the same issue of goals for each projects which have a big overlap15:15
*** Sanjay has joined #openstack-meeting15:15
*** rsacharya has joined #openstack-meeting15:16
*** markmcclain has quit IRC15:16
nijabalot of good work is being put into multi publisher in ceilo15:16
*** markmcclain has joined #openstack-meeting15:16
nijabaI would propose that we rationalize around this15:16
n0anodare one suggest the next design summit, seems like we're impinging too many different areas15:16
nijaban0ano: I was driving to this15:16
nijabaspecially since we are in the last milestone of the project15:16
nijabaand need to finalize existing bp15:17
sandywalshdivakar: fwiw, we've stopped stacktach development in favor of CM development for this very reason ... project overlap.15:17
jhopperthis is also the reason for me being here as well15:17
jhopperproject overlap15:17
divakarMonitoring is not a overlap at this point15:17
nijabaI think we should start preparing the meetings at the summit to deep dive on this15:18
sandywalshdivakar: with stacktach it is15:18
dhellmannnijaba: +100015:18
nijababut please, let's move back to the advertised topics15:18
nijabajd__: please go ahead15:18
YehiaBeyhwhat is the major overlap here?15:19
YehiaBeyhis it the data collection?15:19
nijaba#topic relevance of
*** openstack changes topic to "relevance of (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:19
jhopperFor me, yes15:19
*** cp16net is now known as cp16net|away15:19
jd__so this blueprint is about creatin another new agent15:19
sandywalshcollection, storage, api, aggregation, propagation15:19
jd__technically this is isn't required since it can be done with the central agent15:19
jd__I'm not sure it's a really good idea to split the central agent again and create more namespace15:20
dhellmannjd__: what's the motivation for doing this specific polling in a separate agent?15:20
nijabawhy were you thinking about spliting it in the first place? to be able to disable it?15:20
jd__dhellmann: in case you just run swift?15:21
*** jaypipes has joined #openstack-meeting15:21
* sandywalsh votes to kill the agent altogether ... nova is the touch point to the hypervisor.15:21
jd__nijaba: yes, I think it was about being able to enable/disable things, but we can do this now15:21
*** juice has joined #openstack-meeting15:21
nijabajd__: agreed, this is now par of multi publisher, IIUC15:21
dhellmannjd__: the existing config option to disable pollsters isn't very rich15:21
jd__dhellmann: but it's enough to do that IIUC15:21
jd__nijaba: now it is even more yes15:22
dhellmannjd__: yeah, I hit send too soon -- the existing option should work, but the new publisher config will make it even easier15:22
yjiang5_homesandywalsh: this is for swift.15:22
jd__ok, so sounds like we all agreed to say that this blueprint is obsolete15:22
yjiang5_homejd__: +115:22
jhopperI would argue against multiple agents - they all serve a similar domain purpose and a much richer configuration may make deployment simpler (same package, different cfg)15:22
jd__this is what I though :-) I'll change its status, thanks guy15:23
eglynnyep, +1 to non-agent-proliferation15:23
jd__ we can move to the next topic I guess15:23
sandywalsh+1 (no agents)15:23
nijaba#topic blueprint review15:23
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprint review (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:23
nijaba#link -
nijabawe have quite a few not started ones15:24
nijabacan you guys tell me if you think we should postpone them or keep them?15:24
yjiang5_homeI'm working on Publisher counters frequency receival now, since the multiple publisher patch is under review15:24
eglynnall my synaps wqork is on hold again this (snowed under with downstream work)15:24
dhellmannnijaba: I am going to try to start next week15:25
* jd__ updated
nijabayjiang5_home: should I mark it as started?15:25
jd__yjiang5_home: great15:25
*** maoy has joined #openstack-meeting15:25
yjiang5_homenijaba: I will send patch out possibly early next week.15:25
nijabayjiang5_home: great ,thanks15:25
jd__nijaba: still appears in g3, maybe you should remove it? I don't know why it shows15:26
*** mrodden has quit IRC15:26
jd__I think is implemented, dhellmann you confirm?15:26
nijabajd__: fixed15:26
dhellmannjd__: yes, that's part of the "statistics" endpoint in the v2 api15:27
jd__marking complete15:27
jd__multi-publisher seems in good shape to me15:28
nijabaeglynn: what about qpid?15:28
jd__(I think I'm the only one who did a review since a moment now :)15:28
yjiang5_homejd__: thanks for your review.15:28
eglynnnijaba: lets keep that, I'll find time for it next week15:28
jd__yjiang5_home: I saw you updated it, I'll try to take a look again :)15:28
yjiang5_homejd__: thanks.15:29
nijabaeglynn: great, thanks15:29
dhellmannI'm back online today, so I should have time to look over the multipublisher stuff this afternoon15:29
*** diogogmt has quit IRC15:30
nijabaok, so now we have a TON of bp marked for grizzly with no milstone:
*** dwcramer has joined #openstack-meeting15:30
nijabaI think synaps is going to slide until H15:30
* jd__ proposes to tie dhellmann to review.openstack.org15:30
nijabaeglynn: what's your pov?15:30
eglynnnijaba: agree that a strong possibility15:30
nijabaeglynn: should I remove the target for now?15:31
eglynn(I"m been snowed under with downstream work the last couple weeks)15:31
nijabawe can always chnage back15:31
eglynnfair enough15:31
nijabaperfect, I'll do15:31
nijaba#action nijaba to untarget synaps bp for now15:31
nijabaany other that should be untargetd from grizzly?15:32
nijabaor, which one should we target to g3?15:32
nijabaand i'll untarget the others15:32
* dhellmann looks for the bug about sqlalchemy metadata queries15:32
llu-laptopI think test-db-backends should be done now.15:32
dhellmannwe should add
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1098603 in ceilometer "need to handle missing units values in existing mongodb data" [Medium,New]15:33
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1093625 in ceilometer "no metaquery implementation in sqlalchemy DB backends" [Medium,Confirmed]15:33
*** juice has quit IRC15:33
nijabadhellmann: +1.  would you care to do that?15:33
YehiaBeyhdo we want to follow up on the healthnmon/integration proposal in email or do we need a special meeting?15:33
dhellmannthat 2nd maybe big15:33
jd__ah I created a BP for 1093625 this morning :(15:34
nijabaYehiaBeyh: meeting, eventually voice?15:34
dhellmannnijaba: done15:34
yjiang5_homenijaba: I think is already in multiple publisher code.15:34
sandywalshcan we be in on that?15:34
*** sarob has joined #openstack-meeting15:34
nijaba#action nijaba to propose a doodle for helthmon meeting15:34
jd__nijaba: FWIW15:35
YehiaBeyhin addition, if we do need to deep dive into this we can propose something for the summit15:35
nijabayjiang5_home: agreed15:35
jd__yjiang5_home: yes it is, this is why it's assigned to me, so I can click on Implemented without writing code :-D15:35
YehiaBeyh#action nijaba to propose a doodle for helthmon meeting - what does that mean?15:35
sandywalshnijaba: can we participate in the voice meeting?15:35
nijabaYehiaBeyh: doodle to pick a date/time that suits most of ut15:35
yjiang5_homejd__: :)15:36
eglynnvoice, as in G+ hangout or the linkes?15:36
YehiaBeyhthat sounds great15:36
nijabasandywalsh: yes, weĺl share a bridge info once a date/time is picked15:36
*** shang has joined #openstack-meeting15:36
sandywalshnijaba: thanks15:36
divakarI can setup the meeting.. please do let me know what all wants to be part of that conference call15:36
YehiaBeyhcan the list of participant be added to the notes so Divakar can set up the meeting. thx15:37
dragondmi'd like in on that meeting as well.15:38
nijabadivakar: I'll share with you the list of respondant to the doodle15:38
jhopperplease include me as well if possible15:38
divakarnijaba: that will be great15:38
YehiaBeyhThank you nijaba15:38
nijabajust watch the ml for a doodle invite, respond to it, and you will be invited15:39
divakarnijaba: thank you15:39
*** Dieterbe has left #openstack-meeting15:39
nijabaok, back to the bps, anything else we should clean up?15:39
llu-laptopnijaba: i think  test-db-backends should be marked done.15:40
jd__llu-laptop, nijaba: +115:40
nijaballu-laptop: yup15:40
jd__good job has been done on this15:40
nijabahats off15:40
*** shang has quit IRC15:40
nijabaok, let's move on15:42
nijaba#topic open discussion15:42
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:42
eglynnFOSDEM planning15:42
nijabaeglynn: very good point!15:42
eglynnIIRC from that mail thread, the plan was ...15:42
nijabajd__: eglynn and I should have a quick voice call to prep15:42
eglynnnijaba 5mins intro, eglynn 10mins architecture, jd_ 10mins contributing to ceilo15:43
eglynnare we still good with that split?15:43
nijaba+1 for me15:43
eglynnshould we aim to have drafts to for review for say Monday?15:43
eglynn(in advance of a call?)15:43
dhellmannthis is for a presentation?15:43
eglynnor do the call first?15:43
eglynndhellmann: yep15:43
nijabaeglynn: prep first our slides :)15:44
llu-laptopI saw nova and other openstack projects replaces the nosetest with testr for parellel unittest, shall we follow that fashion?15:44
nijabathen meeting on tue15:44
nijabaor wed15:44
eglynnnijaba: cool15:44
jd__llu-laptop: probably, but I've no clue what we should do, I think -infra took care of that so far but I may be wrong15:44
dhellmanneglynn: nice++15:44
yjiang5_homejhopper: jd__: the idea of against multiple agent is quite interesting, I noticed not big differenece in bin/ceilometer-agent-compute and "bin/ceilometer-agent-central, possibly we can work to merge them? can be an preparation for it.15:45
dhellmannllu-laptop: do you have any idea why they didn't just use py.test?15:45
jhopperI absolutely agree15:45
danspraggins+1 on that15:45
jhopperThere are numerous de-duplications that we could take advantage of15:45
jd__yjiang5_home: yeah is about this, exactly, there's minimum difference after15:45
jhoppernot to mention provide a more contigious namespace for the agents15:45
spn+1 on that15:45
llu-laptopI think the testr supports parrallel testing15:45
jhopperor rather their flavors15:45
dhellmannllu-laptop: so does py.test15:45
llu-laptopdhellmann: then I don't know why. It just seems that nova/olso/glance/etc. all turns to testr15:46
dhellmannyjiang5_home: it should be possible to create one agent that takes a list of plugin namespaces to use to load pollsters15:46
*** garyTh has joined #openstack-meeting15:46
dhellmannllu-laptop: ok15:46
sandywalshwhy. not. kill. the. agent?15:46
dhellmannsandywalsh: how many times do you want the same answer?15:47
llu-laptopif it's ok, i'd like to help use testr in ceilometer15:47
sandywalshI haven't heard an answer15:47
*** mrodden has joined #openstack-meeting15:47
dhellmannsandywalsh: we have 2 agents for different purposes. not everything is about nova.15:47
yjiang5_homedhellmann: yes, that's what we want.15:47
dhellmannsandywalsh: we will also eventually be moving the stats collection out of nova15:47
danspragginsi tend to agree with sandywalsh. why can't we rely on openstack notifications.15:47
sandywalshdhellmann: then change the underlying project (glance, etc) to use notifications properly15:48
danspragginsfor all projects. not just nova.15:48
nijabadanspraggins: have you worked with swift before?15:48
*** ndipanov has quit IRC15:48
danspragginsnijaba: i have not.15:48
dhellmanndanspraggins: we're moving in that direction, too, but in the mean time...15:49
nijabadanspraggins: unlikely they will accept such a modification15:49
*** diogogmt has joined #openstack-meeting15:49
sandywalshnijaba: if there is a hard road block on a particular system, then sure, use an agent. But in 90% of the situations, notifications should and can be used.15:49
danspragginsdhellmann: fair enough.15:49
nijabadanspraggins: but yes, this is the edn goal15:49
*** annegentle has quit IRC15:49
danspragginsnijaba: good deal.15:49
nijababut in the meean time. we need to be able to capture what we need NOW15:50
danspragginsnijaba: makes sense.15:50
*** radez has quit IRC15:50
*** anniec has quit IRC15:50
yjiang5_homejhopper: I will create a bp for single agent.15:51
jhopperI would be more than happy to cut my teeth on it unless the effort is already spoken for15:51
nijabadhellmann, jd, eglynn: did you have any proposals for new core devs?15:52
*** thomasbiege has joined #openstack-meeting15:52
dragondmI am already looking into what it would take to get nova to emit the needed stats.15:52
*** sarob has quit IRC15:52
nijabadragondm: thanks!15:52
jd__dragondm: great15:52
sandywalshanyone use uses oslo, should be willing to use notifications15:52
nijabasandywalsh: yup15:53
jd__anything else for open topic?15:53
dragondm(ill see abt writing up some bp's for nova & ceilio to that end)15:53
*** otherwiseguy has joined #openstack-meeting15:53
yjiang5_homedragondm: There is some discussion about get data from nova in mailing list  and some challenge.15:53
sandywalshhow about adopting the HACKING guide?15:53
nijabajd__: we are on core dev proposals15:53
jhopperyjiang5_home: rather the work required to implement the bp15:54
yjiang5_homedragondm: s/is/was/15:54
jd__nijaba: sorry missed your question :) likely yjiang5_home15:54
eglynnnijaba: re new core devs, I'd propose yjiang5_home if he's willing15:54
dragondmyjiang5_home: yup, been following.15:54
eglynnalso I think llu-laptop has been doing great work15:55
eglynn(if he's willing also ...)15:55
nijabain which case, with yjiang5_home approval, I'll start a formal mail thread for approval15:55
dhellmann+1 to both yjiang5_home and llu-laptop15:55
yjiang5_homejd__: eglynn: dragondm: really thanks15:55
jd__+1 eglynn for llu-laptop15:55
nijabaditto for llu-laptop15:55
*** radez has joined #openstack-meeting15:56
jd__thanks for your #action nijaba :-)15:56
nijaba#action nijaba to formaly start ml thread about core dev startus for yjiang5_home and llu-laptop15:56
llu-laptopthanks, I'd love to15:56
nijabasounds like a done deal, but we have to follow the official process15:56
nijabaok, looks like we've ran out of off topics :)15:57
sandywalshhow about adopting the HACKING guide?15:57
nijabasandywalsh: ??15:57
yjiang5_homesandywalsh: you mean like coding style etc?15:58
dragondmI think he means nova's code guidelines15:58
sandywalshyup, import order, etc15:58
dhellmannI think we've been trying to follow that, but it would be good to go through and make sure now that we're incubated15:58
nijabagood point for a ml discussion?15:58
sandywalshmakes code reviews easier when coming over from other projects15:58
nijabasandywalsh: do yiou want to start the thread?15:59
*** Mandell has joined #openstack-meeting15:59
nijaba#action sandywalsh to start a thread about adopting
nijabaok, we are out of time15:59
nijabathanks a lot everyone!15:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"16:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 24 16:00:02 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:00
openstackMinutes (text):
*** n0ano has quit IRC16:00
*** john5223 has joined #openstack-meeting16:01
*** markvan_ has joined #openstack-meeting16:02
*** llu-laptop has quit IRC16:02
*** APMelton12 has left #openstack-meeting16:03
*** divakar has quit IRC16:03
*** juice has joined #openstack-meeting16:04
*** koolhead17 has joined #openstack-meeting16:04
*** mrodden1 has joined #openstack-meeting16:04
*** markvan has quit IRC16:04
*** markvan_ is now known as markvan16:04
*** mrodden has quit IRC16:06
*** danwent has joined #openstack-meeting16:06
*** blamar has joined #openstack-meeting16:08
*** rsacharya has quit IRC16:09
*** yjiang5_home has left #openstack-meeting16:09
*** Mandell has quit IRC16:12
*** dolphm has joined #openstack-meeting16:13
*** YehiaBeyh has quit IRC16:14
*** markmcclain has quit IRC16:15
*** cp16net|away is now known as cp16net16:16
*** jhopper has quit IRC16:16
*** danwent has quit IRC16:16
*** sdake_z has joined #openstack-meeting16:17
*** danspraggins has quit IRC16:18
*** juice has quit IRC16:19
*** sdake_z has quit IRC16:24
*** dolphm has quit IRC16:29
*** frankm_ has joined #openstack-meeting16:31
*** dolphm has joined #openstack-meeting16:31
*** jaypipes has quit IRC16:36
*** markvan_ has joined #openstack-meeting16:46
*** markvan has quit IRC16:47
*** markvan_ is now known as markvan16:47
*** ewindisch has joined #openstack-meeting16:49
*** jaypipes has joined #openstack-meeting16:49
*** dosaboy has quit IRC16:52
*** nati_ueno has joined #openstack-meeting16:53
*** dosaboy has joined #openstack-meeting16:53
*** hemna has joined #openstack-meeting16:53
*** jcmartin has quit IRC16:54
*** mrodden has joined #openstack-meeting16:54
*** Nachi has quit IRC16:55
*** mrodden1 has quit IRC16:56
*** al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away16:57
*** anniec has joined #openstack-meeting16:58
*** anniec has quit IRC16:59
*** anniec has joined #openstack-meeting16:59
*** jhenner has quit IRC17:00
jaypipes#startmeeting qa17:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 24 17:00:18 2013 UTC.  The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:00
*** mlavalle has joined #openstack-meeting17:00
mtreinish<-- here17:00
jaypipesafazekas, davidkranz, mtreinish, sdague, afrittoli: morning17:00
jaypipesmlavalle: morning miguel17:01
jaypipesjeblair, clarkb, mordred: morning to you guys too :)17:01
mlavallejaypipes: good morning to everybody17:01
koolhead17morning jaypipes :)17:01
* afazekas is here17:01
davidkranzjaypipes: Morning, barely17:01
jaypipeskoolhead17: mornin!17:01
jaypipesdavidkranz: :)17:01
afrittolimorning everyone17:01
*** donaldngo has joined #openstack-meeting17:02
jaypipesOK, so shall we start with a status report of open reviews?17:02
jaypipes#topic Open reviews17:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Open reviews (Meeting topic: qa)"17:02
*** dwalleck has joined #openstack-meeting17:02
jaypipesmtreinish: let's start with
jaypipesdwalleck: mornin.17:03
mtreinishjaypipes: ok17:03
dwalleckjaypipes: Heya. Sorry, I'm back from the wormhole I've been stuck in17:03
jaypipesmtreinish: I know there's been some discussion with a number of folks about the xml/json split17:03
davidkranzdwalleck: Hi Daryl!17:03
jaypipesdwalleck: no worries :)17:04
mtreinishI should probably abandon that since the whole xml split discussion17:04
jaypipesmtreinish: including the email between sdague, jeblair and yourself17:04
jaypipesmtreinish: want to summarize the conclusion/decision on that?17:04
* jaypipes curious17:04
mtreinishjaypipes: I don't think we've reached a conclusion yet. :)17:05
davidkranzjaypipes: I think there are a few issues along the lines of "should we wait for testr" or do something simple now for speedup.17:05
mtreinishdavidkranz: yeah that seems to be the consensus. We also don't have any data on how much of a speedup this gives.17:05
jaypipesdavidkranz: I see. and what are people's thoughts? wait for testr or move forward with something?17:05
sdaguesorry, mostly not here because of other meetings, but I'll throw in a few17:06
davidkranzIt's hard to answer that given the uncertainty about when testr wil be on line for real with no flakies.17:06
mtreinishI think it would help to know how fast we need to get full to use it for gate17:06
sdagueif jeblair is ok with gating at the current time running, I'd say turn on the gate now17:06
sdagueand it will get better with testr17:06
dwalleckI'm out of sync, but I don't see why splitting it now would hurt.17:06
sdaguetestr for g-3 is still the plan17:07
mtreinishdwalleck: jeblair said that since we would be duplicating jenkins jobs it puts too much strain on the ci resources17:07
dwalleckJust my opinion, but I don't see the need to run the XML job on each run. That's something I have configured to run daily in a separate job17:07
davidkranzI am still concerend of a negative reaction from PTLs on having 20+ minutes of nova testing added to all projects.17:07
sdagueit's more about configuration explosion17:07
davidkranzdwalleck: We could put it in the hourly run.17:07
sdagueit's got to be in gate17:07
sdagueotherwise you chase bugs for weeks17:07
sdaguelook at postgresql17:08
sdagueI basically play cat and mouse to keep that running17:08
sdagueit's mostly not17:08
dwalleckI'd be concerned if the PTL's concern is increasing run time for the sake of good testing. If it's really necessary, we could find a way to make it work17:08
davidkranzsdague: Right. But we can't put *everything* in gate in the long run or perhaps even sooner. We have to make choices.17:08
*** chunwang has joined #openstack-meeting17:08
davidkranzI'm fine with turning it on now but that is only a short-term solution I think.17:09
*** torandu has joined #openstack-meeting17:09
sdaguedavidkranz: so I'd say lets get that floated to the PTLs17:09
jaypipeswhat are the remaining steps needed to get testr doing the gate?17:09
sdaguejaypipes: first the testtools conversion17:09
sdagueIvan's got some reviews out there for that WIP, assistance on those would be good17:10
sdagueafter that it can run on testr or nose17:10
sdaguethen it's just shaking out the flakies17:10
sdagueand figure out how to do attrs in testr17:10
jaypipessdague: this one?
sdaguelifeless and cyeoh are going to pound some of that out at LCA next week17:10
sdaguejaypipes: yep17:11
jaypipessdague: ok, excellent.17:11
afazekassdague: if we import testtools everywhere it will be testtools dependent17:11
jaypipessdague: can we work with jeblair to get a job (non-voting) added to the gate that runs tempest with testr?17:11
sdaguejaypipes: yes, once it gets "close"17:12
jaypipessdague: instead of nosetest-dependent? :)17:12
sdagueit's a little too broken right now17:12
jaypipeslifeless: mornin.17:12
sdaguebut this is the important next step17:12
sdagueso eyes on that is important17:12
jaypipesok, will do that review today.17:13
dwalleckI'll take a peek this afternoon17:13
jaypipesthere's a number of reviews from nayna, ravi, and rajalakshmi that deserve a review.17:13
jaypipesthey are not big reviews, so if we could hammer through those, that would be great17:14
jaypipesgets them off the review list, which is getting long17:14
afazekasThe nose import just used for the skip exception and for the attributes17:14
davidkranzI asked ogelbukh to review the container-sync change. But we could approve it without that.17:14
afazekasthey are very small code pieces17:15
*** almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan17:15
jaypipesafazekas: can you elaborate on what you don't like about testtools?17:15
sdagueafazekas: yeh, skip is easy, attr is more interesting because of how testr works. So that will require testr changes as well17:15
sdaguebut lifeless and cyeoh will figure out something :)17:15
*** danwent has joined #openstack-meeting17:15
davidkranzdwalleck: Can you give the final review for based on your comments?17:15
dwalleckSure, will pull that up now17:16
*** new2OS has joined #openstack-meeting17:16
*** vishy_zz is now known as vishy17:16
* sdague sadly needs to drop, battery running out in another meeting17:17
*** koolhead17 has quit IRC17:17
*** jcmartin has joined #openstack-meeting17:17
afazekasjaypipes: I do not have any problem with it, I just wanted to say we are not really nose dependent at the moment, and we don't use really nose specific features17:17
jaypipessdague: ok, ciao17:17
chunwangI want to know whether the race problem is resolved when tempest changed to parallel tests.17:17
afrittoliregarding skip and attr it would be great if whatever we do we do not lose compatibility with nose17:17
dwalleckchunwang: I think we should only have race conditions in tests if people built assumptions/dependencies into their test. I know I've avoided that like the plague17:18
jaypipeschunwang: that is what we are currently discussing... we are hoping that a move to base our test cases on testresources.ResourcedTestCase and testtools.TestCase will enable parallel execution17:18
*** koolhead17 has joined #openstack-meeting17:18
davidkranzafazekas: 'attr' is nose-specific17:18
*** vkmc has joined #openstack-meeting17:19
jaypipesafrittoli: we should be able to keep "compatibility", yes, but nose's multi-process plugin is badly broken.17:19
afazekasdavidkranz: probably it just 5 line decorator17:19
jaypipesafrittoli: thus, we've been investigating and prototyping using testresources for parallel execution.17:19
chunwangok, got it.17:19
afazekasbasically it is the same as classname.attribute = "something"17:19
jaypipesand I think we all agree the @attr decorator is quite useful\17:20
jaypipesfor indicating which tests are smoke, negative, etc17:20
afrittolijaypipes: for non-gating runs it may be worth still using nose, it comes with some nice features such as xmlunit plugin17:20
dwalleckjaypipes: ++. I love my attrs17:20
*** ravikumar_hp has joined #openstack-meeting17:20
donaldngoI like the xmlunit output as well17:20
davidkranzThe question I think is whether we use testr and take full advantage of lifeless in our midst, or try to remain compatible with various other runners.17:20
*** juice has joined #openstack-meeting17:20
jaypipesafrittoli: AFAIK, testr does as well... but regardless, we don't plan on making tempest unrunnable in nose...17:21
jaypipesafrittoli: it's just the parallel plugin part that we can't use17:21
davidkranzjaypipes: Sure. But if testr works great and in parallel, why would some one want to use nose?17:21
afrittolijaypipes: great thanks17:21
jaypipesdavidkranz: I would say we SHOULD take advantage of having lifeless in our midst, but continue to allow tempest to be run (in a single process) with nose17:22
dwalleckjaypipes: testr is also compatable with the basic python unittest class as well, right?17:22
mtreinishdavidkranz: debug output...17:22
jaypipesdavidkranz: meh, I personally won't, but if someone really like nose...17:22
jaypipesdwalleck: yes17:22
davidkranzmtreinish: Maybe testr should support debug output...17:22
mtreinishdavidkranz: it has it, it's just a bit harder to follow then nose17:22
jaypipesdavidkranz: it does, using addDetail()17:22
afazekasjaypipes: Probably __init__ usage instead of setup_packege could fix the nose parallel, I would'n be surprised if the testresource addition also fixed it17:23
jaypipesright, mtreinish17:23
davidkranzSo let's stay the course and if a compelling testr-only issue comes up we can re-evaluate.17:23
*** anniec has quit IRC17:23
jaypipesafazekas: I reported the bug 6 months ago, then 4 months ago when they moved to Github issues, and still no answer.17:24
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 6 in launchpad ""next 10 entries" at bottom of page" [Medium,Invalid]
mtreinishjaypipes: that sure got a lot of attention17:24
jaypipesmtreinish: :( yeah.17:24
jaypipesanyway, so to summarize on this particular topic, we are aiming to have parallel execution of tempest with testr --parallel by the G-3 milestone release.17:25
*** dwcramer has quit IRC17:25
afazekasjaypipes: Probably I can trace what happened, if you need it17:25
jaypipesand we aim to keep things nose-compatible for single-process runs.17:25
ravikumar_hpjaypipes: testr in conjuction with testtools or base Python unittests17:26
jaypipesafazekas: I'm pretty sure testr is a better solution, to be honest... and the lack of feedback on nose issues is a big problem for me.17:26
chunwangthen is there a target date to ask all new script to follow testtools format?17:26
*** timello has joined #openstack-meeting17:26
*** al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away17:26
jaypipeschunwang: so there is a patch here:
jaypipeschunwang: that changes the base test case classes to support testtools17:27
jaypipeschunwang: I'd imagine that we will make a step-wise process, with the first phase meaning no changes to individual test case classes (only to base classes)17:27
jaypipeschunwang: and then slowly make changes for resource tracking in a way that will allow testr --parallel to work most effectively17:28
chunwangjaypipes: ok17:28
*** bdpayne has joined #openstack-meeting17:28
jaypipeschunwang: short answer: probably will be happening gradually over next few weeks17:28
*** markmcclain has joined #openstack-meeting17:28
afazekasjaypipes: I can live without nose.17:28
lifelessdwalleck: testr is a meta-runner - it runs a language specific runner; for openstack thats, which subclasses, and we treat incompatability with stock unittest as bugs [with a couple of opinionated differences :)]17:28
lifelessdwalleck: so you can most definitely run tests with regular unittest - or just, for interactive drop-into-a-debugger hacking17:29
dwalleckCool, that was my understanding. Thanks!17:29
lifelessdwalleck: I do that all the time; I have plans to add a tunneled-debug mode to subunit and testr, just ETIME>17:29
*** ewindisch has quit IRC17:29
afazekasCan someone confirm the gate VM's has just only one CPU ?17:29
jaypipesjeblair: ^^ ?17:29
dwalleckFor the rax VM, it's a 4 GB instance, right?17:30
* dwalleck goes to check his charts17:30
*** timello has quit IRC17:30
jaypipesdwalleck: not sure17:30
afazekasI am guessing the flaky issue happens, because  the guest VM  waiting on disk I/O in kernel mode, and it causes time-outs in the network layer too17:30
dwalleckFrom what I saw in the logs it was a 4 GB instance....RAX 4 GB instance should have 2 vCPUs17:31
afazekasI guess the wait time is more than 5 sec very frequently17:31
jaypipesgetting back on track here...17:31
dwalleckThough if I sold my group on bumping to an 8 GB that would be 4 cores17:31
*** yaguang has quit IRC17:32
*** yaguang has joined #openstack-meeting17:32
jaypipesdo we have any other business to discuss besides open reviews and testr?17:32
jaypipespersonally, I'm a bit disappointed we still don't have good quantum coverage...17:33
ravikumar_hpjaypipes: we are planning to add17:33
mlavallejaypipes: I am implementing one of the BP's you approved a couple of weeks ago17:33
davidkranzjaypipes: There are some quantum tests but they seem to not run anywhere.17:33
chunwangWhen parallel execution implemented, I suppose the stress test case in tempest will be easier. Is there any plan for tempest to cover more stress test cases or any performance related test?17:33
jaypipesmlavalle: that is good news, thx!17:34
*** joesavak has quit IRC17:34
davidkranzjaypipes: Not even ini the quantum run on tempest commits.17:34
jaypipesmlavalle: are you coordinating with ravikumar_hp?17:34
mlavallejaypipes: I haven't talked to him17:34
mlavallebut I'll reach out17:34
jaypipesmlavalle: please do :)17:34
ravikumar_hpjaypipes: I think to start with we have some coverage for quantum that some tests need to be gated tests17:34
jaypipesravikumar_hp: agreed completely. but which ones?17:35
*** timello has joined #openstack-meeting17:35
ravikumar_hpjaypipes: I will check and work wiith mlavalle17:35
ravikumar_hpidentity gaps and new tests and gated tests17:36
afrittolijaypipes: some more basic quantum tests were merged today  those should be good candidate for gating17:36
dwalleckI have tests that I wouldn't call stress, more like benchmarks, that I'd like to submit somewhere. They're of the form I build x servers in y time with z success rate, or that previous scenario and then resized as well and that success rate, and so on17:36
jaypipesravikumar_hp: k, sounds good.17:36
jaypipesafrittoli: ok. are they smoke tests or not?17:36
mlavallejaypipes: this is the BP I am implementing right now
jaypipesebcause because the devstack-vm-quantum-gate seems to only be executing smoke tests...
jaypipesmlavalle: understood.17:37
jaypipesdwalleck: want to add those in a new directly somewhere?17:37
ravikumar_hpjaypipes: yes. Those tests are hp ..17:37
afrittolijaypipes: yes I'd say so they're basic ops, but they have no smoke attr17:37
ravikumar_hpright now it is not tagged as gated tests17:38
dwalleckjaypipes: Yeah, I can do that, and then figure if there's somewhere else better they belong17:38
davidkranzchunwang: I don't think you want to run stress tests in the ci environment.17:39
jaypipesAll: so I think the first step here is to have a devstack-vm-quantum-tempest-full job that gets run on commits to tempest.17:39
davidkranzchunwang: Also, the logs are too strewn with errors to make them useful.17:39
jaypipesdavidkranz: yes indeed.17:39
davidkranzchunwang: errors that are not really errors, that is.17:39
davidkranzchunwang: We are told the log issue will get some attention after g-3.17:40
*** Sanjay has quit IRC17:40
jaypipesOK, so then I will ask some of the CI folks to work with afrittoli, ravikumar_hp and mlavalle to enable a FULL tempest run with a quantum-enabled devstack VM on commits to tempest.17:40
jaypipesjeblair: ping17:40
clarkbjaypipes: pong (he is on australia time at the moment)17:40
jaypipesclarkb: ah, of course..17:41
clarkbI can write up the change to do full tempset with quantum on tempest commits17:41
jaypipesclarkb: think you can work with those guys to change the gate-tempest-devstack-vm-quantum to run all the tests, not just smoke?17:41
jaypipesclarkb: thanks man, appreciated.17:41
jaypipesthat will at least get the full test suite running against an env with quantum... even if the quantum network API tests are not fully done yet17:42
*** ewindisch has joined #openstack-meeting17:43
jaypipesalright, anything else from folks before we wrap up here?17:43
jaypipes#topic open discussion17:43
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: qa)"17:43
afrittoliany plan to enable xmlunit for periodic runs?17:44
dwalleckOne minor thing. For the Tempest devstack jobs, would it be possible to output the xunit results and have Jenkins format them? Looking through a failed Tempest reasons is a bit painful right now17:44
*** derekh has quit IRC17:44
davidkranzjaypipes: How do we move on the issue of turning on the gate for all projects?17:44
davidkranzjaypipes: We should get PTL input but what is the best way to do that?17:44
chunwangdavidkranz: absolutely. actually what I mean is whether there is any attempt to use tempest for any more stress test cases, enhance current cases and add something like performance test...17:45
davidkranzchunwang: That would be desirable.17:45
afrittolidwalleck: +1 also jenkins trends help finding out flaky tests17:46
lifelessafrittoli: if xmlunit is junitxml compatible output, you can do that by post-processing the subunit stream testr captures.17:46
jaypipesdavidkranz: not sure, to be frank. I think we need to send an email to the -dev list that basically says "we are proposing to turn on the full tempest gate for all projects. This means an increased time of X minutes."17:46
lifelessafrittoli: however! CI team have found jenkins is too slow at loading xmlunit data, so they just convert directly to html17:46
jaypipesdavidkranz: if we are confident that the flakies have been solved, I can send that email out.17:47
lifelessafrittoli: so AIUI - and clarkb can confirm - we don't, and can't with jenkins today, use its unit test tracking features.17:47
*** laura-glendennin has joined #openstack-meeting17:47
davidkranzjaypipes: OK, great. The issue is whether we should do anything else  to decrease time in the short term like skipping some slow tests or a job breakout.17:47
*** anniec has joined #openstack-meeting17:48
*** laura-glendennin has quit IRC17:48
davidkranzjaypipes: I'm fine going with what we've got and waiting for testr.17:48
jaypipesdavidkranz: I say we propose the full gate now, and gradually improve the runtime of tempest.17:48
*** lauraglendenning has joined #openstack-meeting17:48
davidkranzSo be it.17:48
dwalleckI think skipping tests to decrease run time would be a risky move. Would re-categorizing tests based on priority and severity make more sense?17:48
jaypipesdavidkranz: and so it shall be.17:49
afrittolilifeless: oh, that's a pity, but thanks for the clarification17:49
clarkblifeless: thats correct, jenkins keeps everything on disk and asking it to track lots of info like that turns it into molasses17:49
jaypipesdwalleck: agreed17:49
ravikumar_hpdwalleck: +117:49
*** anniec has quit IRC17:49
jaypipesOK, I will send the email to the -dev list and PTLs then.17:49
afrittolidwalleck: +117:49
*** anniec has joined #openstack-meeting17:49
jaypipesanything more to discuss today?17:49
dwalleckportland sounds cold17:49
jaypipes#action jaypipes to write email to -dev list proposing full tempest gate17:50
*** adjohn has joined #openstack-meeting17:50
jaypipesOK, ciao everyone.17:50
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"17:50
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 24 17:50:32 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:50
openstackMinutes (text):
mlavalleHave a nice day!17:50
*** donaldngo has quit IRC17:50
*** mlavalle has left #openstack-meeting17:52
*** estebang9 has joined #openstack-meeting17:52
*** chunwang has quit IRC17:53
*** sdake_z has joined #openstack-meeting17:55
*** Nate__ has joined #openstack-meeting17:58
*** benj__ has joined #openstack-meeting17:58
*** hyakuhei has joined #openstack-meeting17:58
*** zul has quit IRC17:59
*** zul has joined #openstack-meeting18:00
bdpayne#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group18:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 24 18:00:17 2013 UTC.  The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'18:00
bdpaynegood morning / evening to everyone18:00
bdpaynewelcome to the first security group meeting18:00
*** mtesauro has joined #openstack-meeting18:00
bdpayneI'd like to start with a few house keeping items...18:01
bdpayne#topic House Keeping18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "House Keeping (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:01
*** chair6 has joined #openstack-meeting18:01
bdpayneWe're using the MeetBot for auto generated mintues18:01
bdpayneWe'll have weekly meetings, starting today18:02
mtesauroWhere are we archiving those minutes?18:02
bdpayne#info Meetings should last 30 min (or less)18:02
bdpayne#info I'll post the meeting minutes online after each meeting18:03
mtesauroPerfect.  Thanks.18:03
bdpayne#info I encourage everyone to subscribe to the mailing list, if you haven't already: openstack-ossg@lists.launchpad.net18:03
bdpayneyou can do this through the launchpad group18:04
bdpaynewe'll talk more about the mailing list in a few...18:04
*** martine_ has quit IRC18:04
bdpayneso, before we dive into other topics, let's do some introductions18:04
bdpayne#topic Introductions18:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Introductions (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:05
bdpayneI can start18:05
bdpayne#info Many of you have met me at the summit / online… I'm Bryan Payne and I'm working at Nebula… OpenStack and related security tasks are my day to day job18:05
bdpaynewho else do we have joining us today?18:06
hyakuhei#info Security Architect at HP. Started OSSG with Bryan. Speaking at summits etc.18:06
*** malini has joined #openstack-meeting18:06
*** Randy_Perryman has joined #openstack-meeting18:07
*** joesavak has joined #openstack-meeting18:07
bdpaynemorning @hyakuhei18:07
mtesauro#info I'm Matt Tesauro, I am the lead of the product security engineers at Rackspace.  Was at the last summit and will be at the next.  OpenStack is also part of my normal work with Rackspce18:07
*** ccrouch has quit IRC18:07
bdpaynenice to have you hear Matt18:07
lauraglendenning#info I'm Laura Glendenning, I'm a software developer at JHU Applied Physics Lab and am currently leading our OpenStack project here.  I was at the last summit and my team is working on security-related features.18:08
bdpayneanyone else here today?  I heard from several others that planned on attending18:08
estebang9#info Esteban Gutierrez, IT security for Intel. Working on security requirements for openstack deployments.18:08
*** mdomsch has quit IRC18:08
maliniGreetings everyone! I am Malini Bhandaru from Intel, and my focus is security too18:08
bdpaynegreat, I was planning to talk about some Intel and APL work later in the meeting, you guys can keep me honest18:08
alrs#info I'm Lars Lehtonen, I'm mostly working around Swift in our deployment right now.18:08
Randy_PerrymanGreetings, Randy Perryman with Dell.  Work on the Crowbar Team doing actual Deployments of Openstack in the field.18:08
bdpayneok, looks like we have a nice group… thank for the introductions all18:09
bdpaynelet's dive into some topics18:09
bdpayne#topic Mailing list18:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Mailing list (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:09
*** sriramhere has joined #openstack-meeting18:10
bdpayne#info We currently have a mailing list setup on launchpad, but there is a move afoot to change this to a mailman list18:10
bdpayne@hyakuhei, can you report on the status for that?18:10
hyakuhei#info In progress. It got lots in the summit setup noise - I'll email Stefano about it again.18:11
bdpaynesounds good18:11
mtesauroIs this Mailman list OpenStack hosted?18:11
sriramheredo we need a separate mailing list? [OSSG] won't work with dev?18:11
bdpaynethe idea here is to allow for integration with the bug tracking system18:11
bdpayneso bugs can be marked "security" and we will get a notification18:12
bdpaynechatter can happen on dev or on our list, as people see fit18:12
sriramhereok - nice. how many bugs do we have? last I checked, we had three18:12
hyakuheiThat allows us to build out some pretty cool security tooling.18:12
*** nati_ueno has quit IRC18:13
hyakuheiThose are OSN bugs, that's a bit different. That's us using Launchpad for Security notes.18:13
bdpaynein the future, we'll get notified (hopefully) of bugs and patches that are security relevant and could benefit from review by someone in this group18:13
*** nati_ueno has joined #openstack-meeting18:13
bdpayneok, so moving on...18:13
bdpayne#topic Security Notes18:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Security Notes (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:13
bdpayne#info We have been asked to occasionally provide "Security Notes" for the OpenStack community18:14
*** Mandell has joined #openstack-meeting18:14
bdpaynethis is lightweight security configuration guidance18:14
hyakuheiThese are like advisories for configuration / common things people do wrong that compromises the security of their OpenStack deployment.18:14
bdpayneperhaps not quite a CVE, but best practices18:14
*** afazekas has quit IRC18:15
Randy_PerrymanSo a Security FAQ page?18:15
mtesauroso basically bits of what would be a hardening guide?18:15
bdpaynethere is one note already in progress18:15
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1098582 in osn "Note: Security impact of Libvirt/LXC usage" [High,Confirmed]18:15
mtesauroThat is the one from last week, right?18:15
bdpaynethat's right18:16
bdpaynelargely these will be little advisories to help people make good decisions18:16
bdpayne#info these are designed to be more timely than the security guide… and sometime that we can produce on demand and/or as we see the need18:16
Randy_PerrymanThank You for the clarification.18:16
sriramheredo we have a link to the work in progress?18:17
bdpaynethat's the link above18:17
bdpaynethat is for the LXC security note… I would encourage everyone to take a pass and provide some feedback18:17
bdpaynewe'd like to get that one out the door soon18:17
*** imcleod has quit IRC18:17
bdpayneapparently many people are using LXC's and thinking that they are getting KVM style isolation… but they aren't, of course18:18
bdpayne#topic Security Guide18:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Security Guide (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:18
sriramherethanks - what is the plan for arriving a template? does this need to wait for a common agreed templat for OSN?18:19
*** imcleod has joined #openstack-meeting18:19
estebang9Could a list of live items such as that one above exist as a list on the main security group page? This would be a list of "hot" items.18:19
*** new2OS has quit IRC18:19
bdpayne#info @hyakuhei has put together a repo and some initial templates for the security guide18:19
bdpayneyeah, let's speak to those questions18:19
hyakuheiI see that very much being in the bootstrap stage.18:20
bdpaynethe template is basically to have a nice common way to present this info18:20
bdpaynework there is needed, but we didn't want to hold up getting the first note out for that18:20
sriramhereso, plan looks like first OSN will be out, while the template will be in work.18:20
bdpaynecontributions are certainly welcome in putting together template for that… probably just a simple plain text format that will work for email / web site posting18:20
mtesauroBootstracp is fine as long as we don't preclude future growth in its implementation.  Better to iterate to what works best for all18:20
sriramherehopefully from second one, we can follow the template.18:21
bdpaynethat's right18:21
bdpayneas for putting items on the website, I think that makes sense18:21
bdpaynewe should put together a section for that18:21
sriramherehyakuhei - can u point to the wip for template please? so that we can provide feebadk18:21
hyakuheiOSN template or Hardening Guide?18:22
bdpayneOSN template and related --
hyakuheiIt's largely captured in the LXC note linked previously.18:23
* bdpayne changed the topic too quickly ;-)18:23
hyakuheiBasically MD with whatever topics made sense.18:23
bdpayneok… moving on to discuss hardening guide18:23
bdpaynethis is the git repo with the skel latex code for the guide18:24
bdpayne#info Note the outline.txt file as a first cut at the guide outline18:24
*** ndipanov has joined #openstack-meeting18:24
bdpayne#action We should review that outline and get happy with it so that we can begin working on the writing as a group18:25
hyakuheiYeah, there's virtually no content right now but it's easy to see how this could build out to be something incredibly useful to the community.18:25
hyakuheiPlease excuse the shonky makefile...18:25
estebang9Looks like a good start though.18:26
bdpayneI see that we are running a little short on time… I'd like to push through a couple of additional topics in our last 5 min18:26
sriramheremay be i missed it - what is the goal for the hardening guide? hows it differnt from OSN?18:26
bdpayneah, sorry...18:26
bdpaynehardening guide is designed to be a single document with advice for deploying OS securely18:26
bdpaynewhereas the OSN's are one off security best practice advice… more timely18:26
sriramhereok - do we plan to include any internal notes (known threats. mitigations etc) in this? or is it for external users?18:27
mtesauroPresumably the audience in OpenStack implementors, correct?18:27
bdpayne@mtesauro that's correct18:27
bdpayne@sriramhere not sure what you mean, audience will be cloud implementors / cloud admins that are working with OS18:28
sriramherei got the answer; what i meant to say is, if we know of a known threat, we will still publish it, so that cloud admins can be aware of that18:28
*** sdake_z has quit IRC18:28
bdpayneok, just a few final mentions here18:28
sriramhereand possibly incorporate our mitigation ideas18:28
bdpaynethat will have to be handled on a case by case basis18:29
*** garyk has quit IRC18:29
bdpaynein general, I would say we provide advice to deploy in a way that offeres layered security and helps mitigate attacks18:29
*** bdpayne has quit IRC18:29
mtesauroOne additional item, not on the agenda...18:30
*** ush has joined #openstack-meeting18:30
*** bdpayne has joined #openstack-meeting18:30
mtesauro#info Beyond my work with OpenStack, I'm also heavily involved in OWASP - International OpenSource Foundation working on application security18:30
mtesauro#info I have just started an OWASP OpenStack Security project with the goal of bringing the two communities together.18:30
bdpaynesorry, my irc connection just hicup'd18:31
mtesauroThere's an Apache-like approval process with OWASP projects which will close at COB today (central time US GMT-6)18:31
*** Randy_Perryman_ has joined #openstack-meeting18:31
bdpayne@mtesauro Any specific proposals for OS?18:31
hyakuhei@mtesauro That's interesting.18:31
mtesauroAfter that, I'll be actively recruiting from the OWASP community to add to the OSSG work.18:31
estebang9@mtesauro, I take it you have that created on the OWASP site? and will it be Appsec focused?18:31
sriramherebpayne - u had few final mentions,18:31
bdpayneyeah, we are basically out of time18:32
bdpaynelet me just close this out and we can have more discussion next week18:32
mtesauroAfter the approval completes today, there will be a OWASP project page on their site + mail list for the project.18:32
estebang9I assume we can take items to the mailing list as well?18:32
bdpayne#topic Storage Encryption18:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Storage Encryption (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:32
mtesaurowill link that to OSSG as well18:32
mtesauroThere's a bunch of app sec people at OWASP which could lend a hand with OpenStack work18:33
*** sriramhere has quit IRC18:34
*** Randy_Perryman has quit IRC18:35
bdpayneboth of those are worth getting some eyes from this group18:35
*** Randy_Perryman_ is now known as Randy_Perryman18:35
*** lloydde has joined #openstack-meeting18:35
bdpaynewe should discuss more on the mailing list and at next week's meeting18:35
maliniThank you!!! Would appreciate feedback18:35
bdpayne#info that's all I had for today… thanks everyone for attending!18:36
benj__Additional storage encryption info here
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"18:36
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 24 18:36:27 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:36
malinibenj: thank you for link, will look18:36
openstackMinutes (text):
*** ndipanov has quit IRC18:36
*** Randy_Perryman has quit IRC18:37
*** Nate__ has quit IRC18:37
*** benj__ has quit IRC18:38
*** nati_ueno has quit IRC18:38
*** ush has left #openstack-meeting18:39
thomasbiegeuhm, too late18:39
*** nati_ueno has joined #openstack-meeting18:41
*** lauraglendenning has quit IRC18:41
*** malini has quit IRC18:42
*** nati_ueno has quit IRC18:44
*** garyk has joined #openstack-meeting18:44
*** mnewby has joined #openstack-meeting18:47
*** nati_ueno has joined #openstack-meeting18:50
*** dtalton has quit IRC18:55
*** mtesauro has left #openstack-meeting18:55
*** ccrouch has joined #openstack-meeting18:56
*** chad has joined #openstack-meeting18:58
*** chad is now known as carimura18:58
*** nati_ueno has quit IRC18:59
*** carimura has quit IRC18:59
*** chad has joined #openstack-meeting18:59
*** chad is now known as carimura19:00
*** carimura has left #openstack-meeting19:01
*** jcmartin has quit IRC19:02
*** armaan has joined #openstack-meeting19:03
*** annegentle has joined #openstack-meeting19:04
*** dosaboy has quit IRC19:05
*** dosaboy has joined #openstack-meeting19:05
*** yaguang has quit IRC19:05
*** dosaboy has quit IRC19:05
*** anniec has quit IRC19:06
*** dtalton has joined #openstack-meeting19:06
*** dolphm has quit IRC19:09
*** koolhead17 has quit IRC19:10
*** dtalton has quit IRC19:12
*** dtalton has joined #openstack-meeting19:13
*** chair6 has left #openstack-meeting19:15
*** nati_ueno has joined #openstack-meeting19:15
*** reed has quit IRC19:16
*** hyakuhei has quit IRC19:17
*** nati_ueno has quit IRC19:20
*** cp16net is now known as cp16net|away19:21
*** mdomsch has joined #openstack-meeting19:22
*** dwalleck has quit IRC19:25
*** koolhead17 has joined #openstack-meeting19:25
*** darraghb has quit IRC19:26
*** anniec has joined #openstack-meeting19:26
*** dwcramer has joined #openstack-meeting19:31
*** sarob has joined #openstack-meeting19:31
*** maurosr has quit IRC19:33
*** rnirmal has quit IRC19:33
*** dtalton has quit IRC19:36
*** novas0x2a|laptop has joined #openstack-meeting19:37
*** ccrouch has quit IRC19:42
*** jamespage_ has joined #openstack-meeting19:43
*** vipul is now known as vipul|away19:45
*** vipul|away is now known as vipul19:45
*** vipul is now known as vipul|away19:46
*** danwent has quit IRC19:47
*** jamespage_ has quit IRC19:49
*** cp16net|away is now known as cp16net19:50
*** dosaboy has joined #openstack-meeting19:51
*** eglynn has quit IRC19:51
*** hemna has quit IRC19:53
*** bdpayne has quit IRC19:53
*** juice has quit IRC19:53
*** roaet is now known as roaet-away19:53
*** ccrouch has joined #openstack-meeting19:53
*** roaet-away is now known as roaet19:54
*** stevebaker has joined #openstack-meeting19:54
*** danwent has joined #openstack-meeting19:59
*** danwent has quit IRC20:01
*** ayoung has quit IRC20:02
*** danwent has joined #openstack-meeting20:02
*** dosaboy has quit IRC20:04
*** almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan20:06
*** markmcclain has quit IRC20:08
*** hemna has joined #openstack-meeting20:08
*** eglynn has joined #openstack-meeting20:09
*** armaan has left #openstack-meeting20:10
*** maurosr has joined #openstack-meeting20:10
*** mestery has quit IRC20:10
*** dolphm has joined #openstack-meeting20:11
*** mdomsch has quit IRC20:11
*** yaguang has joined #openstack-meeting20:12
*** dosaboy has joined #openstack-meeting20:13
*** markmcclain has joined #openstack-meeting20:13
*** lbragstad has joined #openstack-meeting20:20
*** martine has joined #openstack-meeting20:21
*** mrunge has joined #openstack-meeting20:29
*** vipul|away is now known as vipul20:35
*** juice has joined #openstack-meeting20:38
*** dosaboy has quit IRC20:40
*** cp16net is now known as cp16net|away20:44
*** markvan has quit IRC20:44
*** diogogmt has quit IRC20:44
*** diogogmt has joined #openstack-meeting20:45
*** jcmartin has joined #openstack-meeting20:45
*** roaet is now known as roaet-away20:46
*** jhenner has joined #openstack-meeting20:49
*** radez is now known as radez_g0n320:49
*** cp16net|away is now known as cp16net20:50
*** dosaboy has joined #openstack-meeting20:51
*** mdomsch has joined #openstack-meeting20:51
*** ayoung has joined #openstack-meeting20:55
*** dolphm has quit IRC20:56
*** afazekas has joined #openstack-meeting20:58
*** hyakuhei has joined #openstack-meeting20:59
*** hyakuhei has joined #openstack-meeting20:59
*** sarob has quit IRC21:00
*** dkehn has joined #openstack-meeting21:00
*** sarob has joined #openstack-meeting21:02
russellb#startmeeting nova21:04
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 24 21:04:05 2013 UTC.  The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:04
russellb#chair vishy21:04
openstackCurrent chairs: russellb vishy21:04
russellbwho's around21:04
russellbcool ... grizzly-3 first, shall we?21:05
russellb#topic grizzly-321:05
*** openstack changes topic to "grizzly-3 (Meeting topic: nova)"21:05
*** Mr_T has joined #openstack-meeting21:05
*** diogogmt has quit IRC21:06
russellb44 blueprints targeted for grizzly-3, most not done yet21:06
russellbanyone have updates on status for these?21:06
russellbif you're assigned one, make sure the status reflects reality21:06
rmkI'm actually working on one that isn't submitted yet, which is redoing libvirt snapshots to eliminate instance downtime.21:06
hemnaI submitted a patch for my FiberChannel BP21:06
russellband if you know one isn't going to make it, speak up so we can update accordingly21:07
hemnadoing a small rework currently from feedback.21:07
alaskiInstance actions is churning through patchsets, but should be done in time.21:07
russellbhemna: cool, so good progress.  blueprint says "needs code review" which sounds right21:07
hemnayup, just grinding through that phase :)21:07
russellbalaski: getting feedback and all that?21:07
alaskirussellb: yes.  But soon I'll probably be pushing more aggressively for it21:08
russellbjog0: around?  how about "clean up nova's db api?"21:08
jog0russellb: yup21:08
*** dscannell has joined #openstack-meeting21:08
jog0russellb: got side tracked with some API benchmarking and performance21:08
russellbthat's good stuff too :-)21:09
jog0but db api work is moving along nicely21:09
*** bdpayne has joined #openstack-meeting21:09
russellbstill grizzly-3 material?21:09
*** bencherian has quit IRC21:09
jog0russellb:  I hope so21:09
russellbk, updated to "good progress"21:09
jog0one big part is ready:
*** markmcclain has quit IRC21:09
jog0although that may be another bp21:09
russellbdevananda: a lot of patches have gone in for db-session-cleanup, how much more is there on that21:10
*** markmcclain has joined #openstack-meeting21:11
russellbhe may not be around ...21:11
russellbwell, we just need to keep these up to date as we get closer to grizzly-3 so we have a closer and closer picture of what's going to make it (or not)21:11
russellbanything else on grizzly-3?21:11
russellb#topic differences in virt drivers21:12
*** openstack changes topic to "differences in virt drivers (Meeting topic: nova)"21:12
russellbwho's up?  :)21:12
vishyrussellb: i asked him yesterday and we had a bit to go21:12
alaskirmk and I started this briefly in -nova21:12
russellbvishy: ok thanks, sorry to duplicate nagging :)21:12
alaskibut I think we have slightly different goals21:12
rmkI'm not sure about the specific scope of this topic but there's probably a discussion worthy topic at least for the libvirt driver21:13
russellbvishy: could use like a "last checked on status" field, heh21:13
rmkIt's more architectural than anything immediate21:13
rmkThere's a whole lot of if/else in the libvirt driver specifically around LXC, I'm beginning to think that needs to be split out somewhat.21:14
alaskirmk: I added this based on your comments around static enforcement of task state transitions, so that was the intended starting scope21:15
rmkok great21:15
rmkYeah that was the other part of this21:15
rmkThere are all sorts of restrictions in the API around which state/task transitions are allowed versus not21:15
rmkThe reality is that every hypervisor is different, so enforcing this statically is simply going to limit us21:16
rmkFor example, one hypervisor might be perfectly happy to allow rebooting a suspended VM and another may not21:16
rmkMy thought was there should be a method for dynamically setting these restrictions21:16
alaskiand I wanted to go one step further and get a sense of how to handle other differences between hypervisors that may affect the api21:16
rmkMaybe we should explore a compute registration process, where different hypervisors check in with their capabilities (policy)21:17
rmkAnd potentially limit what policy is enforced based on the destination of the command21:17
rmkI'm just throwing out rough ideas here to invoke discussion around how best to handle this21:18
vishyrmk: seems interesting but also a bit complex21:18
vishyrmk: it seems like we can define slightly looser transitions21:19
rmkvishy: That's my short term thought for sure21:19
vishyand handle the outliers with try: excepts21:19
russellbor start with strict base transitions, and let drivers register additional ones that are allowed21:19
rmkIt's actually what I proposed in my pending review about this21:19
russellbsomething like that21:19
rmkSo just loosen what we're restricting today at the API and rely on the drivers to raise exceptions21:20
vishyare there really going to be enough differences to have a whole registration process?21:20
russellbi don't know21:20
rmkvishy: I think it's worth exploring21:20
rmkWe need to assess what we're limiting and why to really make a decision on whether the effort is ultimately worthwhile21:20
vishyrmk: i guess the issues is where there is async stuff21:20
vishyrmk: it sucks to put things into error if we don't have to21:20
rmk is the review which sort of started this21:21
alaskivishy: Well the instance actions stuff should remove the need to set an error state in these cases21:21
rmkAlso, on the same note, we don't expose the current restrictions anywhere.  There's no API call to figure it out, so Horizon ends up having to match our restrictions.21:22
rmkAnyway that's a sidebar to this topic21:22
alaskiand what I'm really curious about is how much divergence will be acceptable.  Especially with no immediate feedback in the api21:22
sorenWould it be terribly hard for instances to carry capability attributes?21:22
sorenIf they did, the API server would know if it could be rebooted.21:23
rmksoren: Wouldn't you want that to be associated to the host and not the instance itself?21:23
sorenIt has to look up the validity of the server's id anyway.21:23
sorenrmk: Not necessarily.21:23
rmkSo maybe it's not registration as much as a policy for each hypervisor which plugs into the API21:23
sorenrmk: Different vm types on the same host can have differing capabilities.21:23
sorenrmk: physical host, that is.21:24
vishyrmk: we have to be able to map instances to hypervisors21:24
rmki.e. I'm destined for an instance on a libvirt compute node, check the libvirt api policy21:24
vishyrmk: sounds like this should be a design summit discussion21:24
rmkSounds good, I thought it might be21:24
russellb"lock the hypervisor guys in a room"21:25
rmkI would advocate relaxing the restrictions starting sooner than that though21:25
rmkWe end up making direct DB changes constantly because of this21:25
rmkI probably need to classify the types of changes we're going to the DB for, it's way too often21:26
alaskiand we end up with a lot of instances in error because the restrictions are very relaxed.21:27
alaskibut we can handle that while we figure out a good solution21:27
rmkIsn't it possible for the driver to return in a manner which doesn't trigger an error state/21:27
rmkJust that it ignored the operation?21:27
vishyrmk: not really21:27
alaskinot in a way that's exposed to a user21:27
vishyalthough with alaski's patches maybe21:28
vishyalaski: to see everything that has happened to the instance21:28
*** eglynn has quit IRC21:28
*** diogogmt has joined #openstack-meeting21:28
*** belliott has joined #openstack-meeting21:28
alaskifor now can we come to a rough consensus on restricted vs relaxed?  For reviewing purposes.21:29
rmkI'd advocate relaxing a bit and relaxing more as we have an appropriate framework21:29
alaskivishy: that's what my work is intending, we should be able to see everything that has happened21:29
rmkI've been pretty gung ho on making "reboot" the fixit hammer21:29
vishyalaski, rmk no dramatic changes are really appropriate. I do like relaxing reboot as much as possible21:30
*** eglynn has joined #openstack-meeting21:30
rmkThat's the one I think helps the most right this moment21:30
rmkTHere are others but not as big a deal21:30
*** otherwiseguy has quit IRC21:31
rmkMost of the others are just annoying and not "an admin needs to intereve"21:31
rmkanyway that's all I had, would like to discuss more at the summit if we can21:32
russellbsounds like a good session idea21:32
russellb#topic vm-ensembles21:32
*** openstack changes topic to "vm-ensembles (Meeting topic: nova)"21:32
russellbshould be a quick topic ...21:32
russellbi just wanted to draw some attention to this blueprint21:32
russellband there's also a ML thread about it21:33
russellbit's proposing adding some additional complexity to scheduling21:33
russellbfrom my first pass on it, i wasn't convinced that it was justified, so i'd like to get some other opinions from those heavily involved with nova21:33
russellbdoesn't have to be this second, but go give it a read, and post feedback to the ML21:34
russellb(the author isn't here to defend himself anyway)21:34
rmkI like what's being proposed, I'm not sure it needs a whole new paradigm of grouping21:34
vishyi went back and forth with the authors a few times21:34
vishyi think need some minimal support in the scheduler to achieve this21:34
vishyunless we want to expose information from the scheduler to external services21:35
rmkThere are other use cases for this sort of thing, like making sure you try to distribute a particular class of VM (running a given app) across racks before..21:35
russellbthere's some basic anti-affinity support there using a scheduler hint IIRC21:35
rmkBasically I think you can do this with key/value pairs as hints to the scheduler21:35
russellbdifferent-host or whatever21:35
russellbso i guess i'm just trying to better understand what's not possible now ... or it's a matter of making it more friendly, or what21:36
*** sarob has quit IRC21:36
alaskirussellb: I think it has to do with scheduling multiple instance types at the same time, though I'm still not entirely sure that's it21:37
jog0russellb: it would be nice to be able to say to spread out this group of VMs, instead of saying antiaffinity to this vm21:37
russellbwell, hopefuly we can distill it down to the core problems and what needs to be done to solve them on the ML21:37
russellband if it's not resolved sooner, another design summit candidate21:38
russellbcan probably be wrapped up sooner though]21:38
russellb#topic bugs21:38
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)"21:38
russellb47 untriaged ... we've at least kept the untouched bugs list relatively flat this release cycle, so that's good :)21:39
russellbone thing that occurred to me today, when we talk about bugs and what needs to be triaged, we never mention python-novaclient21:39
russellbthere's another 36 New bugs there ...
russellbi kinda wish the client bugs were in the same list21:40
russellbbut i guess it really is separate21:40
russellboldest untriaged client bug is april 1st last year, so guess we need to work on that :)21:41
russellbthat's all i wanted to mention ... any specific bugs we should look at now?21:41
vishyrussellb: lol yeah21:41
russellbvishy: yeah i kinda laughed when i came across it ... poor novaclient, i just totally forgot to ever look at it21:42
russellblots of good low hanging fruit in there if anyone is interested21:42
*** al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away21:42
*** EmilienM has joined #openstack-meeting21:43
*** danwent has quit IRC21:43
russellb#topic Open Discussion21:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova)"21:44
*** danwent has joined #openstack-meeting21:44
rmkSo yeah, any thoughts on whether we continue down this current path with libvirt, where multiple hypervisors are supported all via conditionals?21:44
* russellb isn't familiar enough with that code ... :-/21:45
rmkPart of this is it would be nice to be able to focus on the hypervisor of interest, rather than considering those which I don't have deployed anywhere21:46
rmkI'm sure that's a common situation too21:46
russellbguess this would be a good ML thread ..21:46
rmkIt would be hard for me to justify time spent on Xen or LXC when I have no use case for it21:46
rmksure, I can post on the ML21:46
russellbmight need to outline a proposal or two, and get people to weigh in on candidate directions21:46
devanandarussellb: re db-session-cleanup, there's still ~20 public methods taking a session parameter, which I'd like to cleanup, but haven't had time to tackle recently21:47
rmkDid we end upo agreeing to relax API restrictions around reboot?21:47
russellbdevananda: k thanks21:47
russellbrmk: yes sounds like it21:47
rmkOr still going to hold on that too?21:47
vishyoh i have a topic21:47
rmkOK then... :)21:48
alaskirmk: I think we did21:48
russellbrmk: and capping the changes at that for now, until discussed in more depth21:48
rmksounds good21:48
vishydoes anyone care about this:
vishymy thought is to do something like21:48
rmkvishy: It would be nice to have, doesn't have to be super extensive21:48
russellbyeah, seems nice ... needs a volunteer?21:49
vishycheck: osapi_compute_unique_server_name_scope and if it is set21:49
rmkMaybe a basic set of template values which we interpolate21:49
vishythen just append '-%s' % uuid on to the name21:49
vishyseems like the simple solution21:49
rmkWhy not just have a set of macros and run them through a simple processor?21:49
cburgessvishy: Wouldn't a simple sequence number be easier?21:49
*** danwent has quit IRC21:50
vishycburgess: no doesn't really work21:50
rmkLet them use any value we already store21:50
vishyif the scope is global21:50
vishyand i do launch -n10 test21:50
vishyand someone else does launch -n10 test21:50
vishyi get a failure21:50
vishywhich is really annoying21:50
*** gyee has joined #openstack-meeting21:50
vishyrmk: we could config option the param21:51
vishyrmk: but I was thinking the simpler the better21:51
*** eglynn has quit IRC21:51
rmksure that works too21:51
cburgessvishy: You get a failure or a a non-unique name (which isn't guarded against today)?21:51
russellbjust non-unique name pretty sure21:52
vishycburgess: i'm saying that in global scope the sequence number is pretty bad21:52
vishycburgess: probably ok in project scope although you could still run into issues with it21:52
russellbif this is for hostnames ... UUID makes for some ugly hostnames21:53
cburgessvishy: I don't think  understand what you mean by global scope? A desire to keep name unique for DNS purposes?21:53
russellbbut at least it'd be unique21:53
vishyanyway, anyone feel like tackling it?21:53
vishycburgess: config option21:53
*** bencherian has joined #openstack-meeting21:54
vishyif you set it to 'global' you get an error if the name conflicts across all tenants21:54
russellb#help need a volunteer for
cburgessOh I am unfamiliar with that so I shall pipe down.21:54
cburgessIs this grizzly-3 milestone?21:54
russellbyeah could be21:55
russellbif someone takes it21:55
cburgessI could take it but I know I won't have time to do it before grizzly-3. If no one else takes it for grizzly-3 I will take it for H.21:55
vishyone more thing21:55
vishycan everyone please help with reviews:
*** martine has quit IRC21:55
russellbsweet my "HACK - DO NOT MERGE." is ranked at the top21:56
russellb(sorry, it's helping find remaining db accesses for no-db-compute)21:56
*** sarob has joined #openstack-meeting21:56
lifelesshow is score calculated?21:57
lifelessand yes, will do reviews21:57
russellbcombination of various things, if tests are passing, how old it is, if it's associated with a bug or blueprint and if so, what its priority is21:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"21:58
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 24 21:58:29 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:58
openstackMinutes (text):
*** dkehn has left #openstack-meeting21:58
*** dscannell has quit IRC22:00
devanandaanyone want to stick around and talk about database things?22:00
lifelessmmm databases22:02
*** yaguang has quit IRC22:03
*** sarob has quit IRC22:03
devananda#startmeeting db22:04
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 24 22:04:38 2013 UTC.  The chair is devananda. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.22:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: db)"22:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'db'22:04
devanandaI don't have an agenda or anything :)22:05
*** torandu has quit IRC22:05
devanandabut some really cool patches have landed recently, so I thought might be good to talk about the next steps22:05
devanandaor see what everyone else is doing22:05
devananda#topic open discussion22:06
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: db)"22:06
*** torandu has joined #openstack-meeting22:06
devanandaso, support for unique indexes landed yesterday22:07
devanandaand it looks like shadow tables // archiving is about to land22:07
jog0devananda: awesome22:08
jog0so now we can start using unique indexes?22:08
jog0rather start enabling them22:08
*** armaan has joined #openstack-meeting22:08
devanandaBoris is planning to create one review / migration per table22:08
devanandato add actual unique constraints, and test the migration fwd/bkwd22:08
jog0devananda: as there are some big changes to DB landing for Grizzly, perhaps it would be nice to send an email out to openstack-dev saying what has changed, and what is coming22:09
jog0to let people know that the DB is getting better22:09
jog0and how many cool things have landed22:09
devanandaprobably a good idea :)22:09
devanandathere's also the no-db-compute stuff which seems to be slowing down a lot22:10
devanandathough i haven't followed it closely22:10
jog0not sure how far they are on that one, but looks likes its made a lot of progress22:10
jog0russellb: ^22:11
jog0so lets review the big cahnges that have landed so far22:11
jog0and what is still scheduled22:11
jog0so we have the basics for a email22:12
lifelessrussellb: does reviewday do a topo sort (e.g. all reviews in a stack get promoted to the highest importance of the reviews under it?22:12
russellblifeless: no idea on that22:13
russellbdprince wrote it22:13
zykes-question: plans to support stuff else then mysql ?22:13
russellbon no-db-compute, still some work to do22:13
russellbI have a review up that hacks nova-compute to log a traceback every time db.anything gets called22:13
devanandazykes-: afaik postgres is already supported22:13
*** otherwiseguy has joined #openstack-meeting22:13
russellbstill looks like we can do it by grizzly-3, but have to work at it22:13
krtaylor I added postgres CI tests22:14
devanandarussellb: would be great to have a status page that listed the db calls still coming from n-cpu :)22:14
russellbpostgres is used on smokestack as well22:14
russellbdevananda: heh, yeah ... it's basically the nova-compute log from the latest test run on that review right now22:14
russellbfor reference ... ...
devanandajog0: the meeting wiki seems to be the best reference right now for ongoing DB work at a high level:
russellb105 entries in that log file (many of them the same thing)22:16
*** Mr_T has left #openstack-meeting22:16
*** jhenner has quit IRC22:16
jog0devananda: yeah,  most of those are in progress AFAIK22:17
jog0if not all22:17
jog0although I did file a bug on non-blocking-db22:17
jog0with comstud22:18
*** dripton_ is now known as dripton22:18
devanandagoing to jot down my understanding of the different project status' here:
devanandaand use that as a basis for an email22:19
jog0sounds good22:19
sdaguerussellb: so postgresql in tempest gate is currently bust, you know if dprince is running all the tests or just smoke?22:19
*** _ozstacker_ has joined #openstack-meeting22:20
russellbsdague: i'm not actually sure ...22:20
sdague if anyone wants to help sort out the fails, wanted to get that actually gating by g-3 to keep us sane22:21
*** ozstacker has quit IRC22:21
driptonsdague: I'll take a look at postgres failures.22:21
russellbsdague: if you go to, scroll down to a nova patch, you should be able to dig into the logs for a given run that was using postgres22:21
*** galthaus has quit IRC22:21
devanandadripton: hey there :)22:21
sdaguedripton: I think I got the whitebox one addressed in review, but there is a floating ips one, they are usually type mismatch issues22:22
russellbhe may have tempest disabled, not sure22:22
sdaguerussellb: ok22:22
*** mrunge has quit IRC22:22
sdaguesorry, just figured I'd stick that out there as I saw the pg statement22:22
russellbsdague: i'm not actually seeing tempest in the log file right now22:22
*** sarob has joined #openstack-meeting22:22
devanandadripton: I +1'd your shadow-table patch. is there a patch for copying deleted rows to them?22:23
driptondevananda: not yet; I was waiting for the first part to go in first.  But I think it'll be easy.22:23
devanandadripton: great. if it's easy, i think it would be good to have the copy-deleted-rows patch up to get feedback on it22:24
devanandathe particulars of that were a bit of a hot topic at the last summit, IIRC22:24
driptonWill do. I wanted to make sure the shadow tables were okay with people first.  If they are then it's straightforward copying.22:25
jog0devananda: dripton +1.  It would be nice to  be able to try out the shadow tables with copying deleted rows before merging the migration22:25
driptonok, I'll try to get the copying patch up soon.   (If it's as easy as I think, maybe tomorrow.)22:26
jog0devananda: lets add impact to the ehterpad22:26
*** ccrouch has left #openstack-meeting22:27
*** eharney has quit IRC22:28
*** mtreinish has quit IRC22:29
*** sarob has quit IRC22:30
*** armaan has left #openstack-meeting22:30
*** sarob has joined #openstack-meeting22:32
jog0devananda: looks good22:32
devanandaawesome, thx :)22:32
jog0there are definitely some nice changes in there22:32
jog0lots of exciting stuff for Grizzly22:32
driptonDoes that etherpad auto-save?  The one I use most has a save button.22:34
jog0AFAIK yes22:34
devanandadripton: yes. click the history button to see22:34
*** anniec has quit IRC22:35
devanandaany other topics folks want to bring up?22:35
jog0devananda: yeah22:35
jog0haven't finished collecting/parsing the logs yet22:36
jog0but think I found an example where mysql reports it takes 0.003156 second and nova.db.api  takes 0.08 seconds22:36
*** henrynash has quit IRC22:36
jog0but I will collect those logs and pastebin them when I double check22:37
devanandasounds good. an occasional skew of 0.05s doesn't surprise me too much in a cloud env22:37
devanandaunless it's consistent22:38
*** mestery has joined #openstack-meeting22:38
jog0devananda: well I have very verbose logs this time so maybe we can make something of it22:38
*** EmilienM has left #openstack-meeting22:39
jog0devananda: this is related to finding out why some REST API commands take over a second22:39
devanandaif there's nothing else, shall we end meeting a bit early?22:41
devanandagreat. thanks all!22:42
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"22:42
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 24 22:42:08 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:42
openstackMinutes (text):
*** diogogmt has quit IRC22:43
*** yamahata_ has quit IRC22:46
*** sew has left #openstack-meeting22:47
*** joesavak has quit IRC22:47
*** annegentle has quit IRC22:51
*** yamahata_ has joined #openstack-meeting22:51
*** juice has quit IRC22:55
*** anniec has joined #openstack-meeting22:55
*** john5223 has quit IRC22:56
*** stevebaker has quit IRC22:56
*** ryanpetrello has quit IRC22:57
*** stevebaker has joined #openstack-meeting22:57
*** markmcclain has quit IRC22:57
*** juice has joined #openstack-meeting22:58
*** blamar has quit IRC22:59
*** juice has quit IRC23:01
*** maoy has quit IRC23:02
*** stevebaker has quit IRC23:03
*** Gordonz has quit IRC23:03
*** stevebaker has joined #openstack-meeting23:04
*** juice has joined #openstack-meeting23:05
*** yamahata_ has quit IRC23:08
*** eharney has joined #openstack-meeting23:08
*** lbragstad has quit IRC23:08
*** fnaval has quit IRC23:16
*** garyTh has quit IRC23:17
*** juice_otg has joined #openstack-meeting23:18
*** juice_otg has quit IRC23:20
*** juice has quit IRC23:24
*** juice has joined #openstack-meeting23:26
*** juice has quit IRC23:26
*** juice has joined #openstack-meeting23:27
*** stevebaker has quit IRC23:33
*** stevebaker has joined #openstack-meeting23:35
*** dosaboy has quit IRC23:44
*** woodspa has quit IRC23:47
*** hyakuhei has left #openstack-meeting23:55
*** fnaval has joined #openstack-meeting23:55

Generated by 2.14.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!