Thursday, 2013-03-21

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ThiagoCMCANNOUNCEMENT: Ultimate OpenStack Grizzly Guide -
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KharecToday's Python3 meeting will be here?13:32
Adri2000Kharec: yes according to
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KharecAdri2000: thanks.13:40
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jd__#startmeeting ceilometer15:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 21 15:00:25 2013 UTC.  The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:00
jd__hi everyone15:00
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jd__that's a lot of people!15:01
jd__nijaba around?15:02
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jd__dhellmann might be sick fwiw15:02
jd__#topic dhellmann investigate the process for releasing a client library15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann investigate the process for releasing a client library (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:02
jd__so I'm going to re-action this15:02
jd__#action dhellmann investigate the process for releasing a client library15:03
dragondmo/ hello15:03
jd__#topic Summit sessions
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit sessions (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:03
jd__We should have ~11 sessions planned on the end of week. I've asked if15:03
jd__possible to not overlap with Heat so we can share the people between the15:03
jd__two sessions if needed.15:03
jd__Also I've started to do the planning, didn't finish yet, but every session should fit, with some merge, so far15:04
eglynnjd__: were we allocated a definite day for the ceilo track?15:04
* eglynn heard Thursday15:04
jd__eglynn: Thursday indeed15:04
jd__and a bit of Wednesday end-of-afternoon15:04
llu-laptopwhen can we see the initial schedule?15:04
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jd__llu-laptop: soon I think15:04
eglynnkinda the graveyard shift15:05
eglynn(the later slots on Thurs afternoon)15:05
jd__eglynn: if you've more insight about which alarming session could be merged, that would be great15:05
jd__eglynn: ah? because everybody left?15:05
eglynnjd__: yep15:06
eglynnjd__: and yep as well15:06
eglynnjd__: I've 5 sessions proposed ... if there a target number I should aim for?15:06
jd__eglynn: 3 would be perfect, I can maybe make 4 -- there's 5 from you and one from Nick too15:06
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eglynnjd__: cool, I'll take another pass at them and aim for amalgemating to 315:07
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jd__eglynn: perfect, ping me when you do or will have done that so I can finish my scheduling15:07
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eglynnjd__: will do15:07
jd__that's all for me about this, anybody else wants to add something?15:08
eglynn#action eglynn amalgemate summit alarming proposals from 5 sessions to 315:08
jd__ah yes, I need to ask Nova folks about the Cell session15:08
* eglynn can't spell amalgamate ...15:08
jd__nijaba proposed a session about that, but I feel that it's useless15:08
eglynnone other idea on summit sessions15:09
llu-laptopalso about the nova scheduler?15:09
jd__maybe I'm wrong, so I'll ask nova15:09
eglynnif we're really stuck for slots, we could move some sessions out to the "unconference track"15:09
jd__llu-laptop: I plan to use a session on this, your thoughts?15:09
eglynn(or whatever that's called ...)15:09
jd__eglynn: good idea15:10
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yjiang5jd__: +1 for nova scheduler. But we need nova guys on the session also, right?15:10
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jd__eglynn: I'll drop the low prio session to this ultimately if I've too :)15:10
llu-laptopjd__: i'm wondering if there are some nova guys attend that session?15:10
eglynnjd__: cool15:10
jd__yjiang5: yes but nova is booked for 4 days so…15:10
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eglynnwe may need to actively grab nova folks if we want them to attend15:10
jd__as said, I've managed to move Heat away so it is not during our sessions so we can enjoy them15:11
jd__but for nova that's impossible :)15:11
jd__maybe we should propose the nova-scheduler/ceilmoeter session into nova schedule?15:11
dragondmSome of us involved in both will be bopping back & forth as possible...15:11
jd__dragondm: sounds like sport! ;)15:11
dragondmPretty much.15:11
yjiang5jd__:  +1 for into nova scheduler.15:11
eglynnjd__: yep, we certainly could ... russellb already put out a call for early nova proposals on the ML15:12
dragondmBasic law of conferences: everything you want to attend is schedualed at the same time.15:12
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eglynn(so the earlier we re-assign to nova, the better ...)15:12
jd__#action jd__ Ask Nova team is a session talking about Ceilometer/Cell is worth it15:13
eglynnBTW the session proposer can't re-assign topic, only the track "owner"15:13
jd__#action jd__ Propose a session into Nova timeslots about Ceilometer being use by nova-scheduler15:13
jd__eglynn: ah right15:13
jd__I can do that right now15:14
jd__ done15:14
eglynnIIRC from the last summit, some of the yahoo! folks had an interest in the nova scheduler consuming & doing analytics on metering data15:14
jd__if it's not approved we'll bring to the unconference I guess?15:15
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eglynnyep, makes sense15:15
* jd__ moves his little organization papers15:15
jd__more slot for alarming and stuff then :)15:16
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jd__anything else?15:17
eglynnnow that the party schedule is out, any ideas on a good night for a team dinner?15:17
jd__maybe Wednesday between our sessions?15:18
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eglynnWednesday's good15:19
shengjie_+1 Wednesday15:20
jd__well I suggest we ask others next meeting too but that could work15:20
* jd__ is flexible anyway15:20
* jd__ 's schedule is flexible anyway (hm)15:20
* eglynn flexible too, except for Monday evening ... (Red Hat party)15:20
jd__eglynn: ok15:20
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jd__#topic DIY stable/grizzly maintenance (since the stable-maint team won't be supporting the newly integrated projects until post-havana)15:21
*** openstack changes topic to "DIY stable/grizzly maintenance (since the stable-maint team won't be supporting the newly integrated projects until post-havana) (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:21
jd__eglynn: we're listening :)15:21
eglynnOK so the motivation for this topic was a conversation on openstack-stable-maint ML ysterday15:21
eglynnthe subject was membership of the stable-maint team for grizzly15:21
eglynn(core PTLs and active back-porting developers are normally included)15:21
eglynnfolks with a hand in downstream distros etc.15:22
eglynnso I suggested also including the incoming PTLs for ceilo & heat15:22
eglynnturns out that the stable-maint team is *not* going to be supporting ceilo & heat for the upcoming cycle15:22
eglynn(since the project wasn't actually integrated for the grizzly cycle)15:22
eglynnso the short story is ... if we want it done, we'll have to support it ourselves15:22
eglynnI, for one, would be in favour of investing (as a project) in stable branch maintainence15:23
jd__we can do that, but it'd be cool to do this close the actual stable-maint team15:23
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jd__like if we were integrated15:23
llu-laptopwhat kind of work it involves?15:24
eglynnits a good way of supporting non-trunk-chasing users *and* developing good team practices for the I cycle15:24
jd__the fact that they don't want to be responsible for it, I can understand, but if we can at least just do the job for them without setting up a different process, it'd be great15:24
jd__and llu-laptop is already volunteering!15:24
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eglynnhere's what I think would we'd need to do ...15:24
* jd__ hides15:24
eglynn(a) familiarize ourselves with the current policy15:24
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eglynnnote especially
eglynnthat's the key IMO15:25
eglynn(b) get the remote stable/gizzly branch cut15:25
eglynnnot sure what level of karma is required to get that done?15:25
eglynn(c) commit to watching out for and backporting *appropriate* fixes15:25
eglynnthat's an on-going "collective responsibility" task15:26
eglynntranslation: it'll fall thru' the cracks unless we all do it ;)15:26
eglynnmade more tractable with tagging ...
jd__but will we able to do 'git review stable/grizzly'?15:26
jd__that's (b)?15:26
eglynnand of course considering your own patches as a matter of course makes it easier15:26
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eglynngit review just requires the branch exists upstream?15:27
eglynnor something more?15:27
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* eglynn is old-skool, doesn't usually use git-review ...15:28
jd__eglynn: I think so yeah15:28
eglynnk, so I'll follow up on what's needed there15:28
jd__so that might be tight to (b)15:28
jd__thanks eglynn15:28
eglynnand finally (d) manage the stable releases15:29
jd__I think (c) will be visible in our Gerrit dashboard, so I am not too much afraid of us forgetting it15:29
jd__for the part submitted I mean15:29
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eglynnyep, so the key separating the sheep from the goats ;)15:29
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eglynni.e. deciding which bugs are suitable for backporting, tagging in LP kinda helps there15:30
jd__eglynn: yeah, I was wondering if LP could help about this15:30
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jd__but I'm not sure reporters can say in which version they found the bug, at least via a special field15:30
llu-laptopeglynn: that requires every gerrit patch should have a LP bug/blueprint, I guess?15:31
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eglynnthe stable-maint team will be using tags like "grizzly-backport-potential"15:31
shengjie_eglynn: does that decision of what bugs get ported made by the LP or there is a triage process?15:31
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jd__eglynn: well that requires to know that the bug reported is not from havana version :/15:32
eglynnshengjie_: LP just allows anyone (the original fixes, or an interested core dev) to mark as bug as a good candidate for backporting15:32
shengjie_then the decision is gonna be made by LP15:32
shengjie_ porting it or not15:32
eglynnwell ... s/made by LP/recorded in LP/15:33
eglynnthe decision point is usually not when the bug is originally reported in LP15:33
eglynnas the invasiveness of the fix is unknown at that point15:33
jd__(we all agree that LP is Launchpad, right? :)15:33
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jd__I was just under the impression shengjie_ was understanding something else :)15:34
eglynnthe decision point is usually when the fix is proposed to or lands on master15:34
eglynnthen it's usually clear whether it too risky or appropriate for the stable branch15:34
jd__eglynn: that seems like a very fragile process but it's probably the best we can have for now15:34
eglynnjd__: yep, it takes vigilence to ensure nothing falls thru the cracks15:35
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eglynnso first step would be everyone proposing fixes, to take a few minutes to think about whether the patch is suitable for stable15:35
eglynnand then record that info in LP via the tag15:36
eglynnyou don't necessarily need to do the backport yourself15:36
eglynnthough that would be good15:36
eglynn(as you'd be most familiar with the fix ...)15:36
shengjie_who does the cherrypicking then?15:36
jd__eglynn: and the usual process (for H) will be stable-maint to watch for us what should be backported?15:36
eglynnshengjie_: if not the original proposer, then someone else on core will have to step up to the plare15:37
jd__not sure what job we'll do in place of stable-maint15:37
eglynnjd__: yes, that would be the process during the I cycle15:37
jd__eglynn: k15:37
eglynnbut note that stable-maint won't do all the heavy lifting for us, even in the I cycle15:38
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jd__that's clear to me, eglynn, #action some stuff if you think you need to15:38
jd__eglynn: yeah I though so :)15:38
eglynn#action eglynn get ceilo:stable/grizzly branch set up15:38
eglynnone other thing to think about is the cadence of stable releases15:39
eglynnnova etc. usually aim for every 8-10 weeks15:39
eglynnwe could line up with that, or aim for less frequent if appropriate ...15:39
eglynnthat's all I got on the topic ...15:40
jd__that's a good start!15:40
jd__to be continued15:41
jd__#topic Open discussion15:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:41
jd__can I have more reviews on my old patches laying around?15:41
llu-laptopone question, how many stable version should we keep? Say we'in I, do we have stable/g and stable/h both?15:41
jd__llu-laptop: I think we'll follow others on that15:41
eglynnllu-laptop: rule is one cycle back for normal fixes15:42
eglynnllu-laptop: longer than that, security vulnerabilities only15:42
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eglynn(so after grizzly goes out, stable/folsom will usually only get security fixes as a matter of course, though the distro folks will probably support it for longer ...)15:43
zulrc1 is giong to be out when for ceilometer?15:44
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zulcool thanks15:45
* ttx waves15:45
jd__not sure when exactly15:45
ttxjd__: would be great to close those last blockers15:46
jd__ttx: we can do that15:46
ttxjd__: everyone else will have their rc1 done this week15:46
jd__ttx: we close everything and I ping you back?15:46
ttxYou fix everything on the list, then when you're happy with it... just push a 2013.2 version change in and pingme15:47
ttxI'll cut the grizzly release branch from the previous commit15:47
ttxjd__: but that means you truly believe that it's good enough to release15:47
ttxjd__: i.e. pending the discovery of new bugs, it will be your release15:47
jd__ttx: ok!15:47
ttx(that said, incubated projects have less constraints)15:48
ttx(like, you don't HAVE TO release on April 4)15:48
jd__but we'd like to! ;)15:48
ttxjust makes you look good :)15:48
jd__we like that15:48
eglynnyep, lets aim to line up with the train15:48
jd__ok so tomorrow I'll spend my day on that15:49
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jd__that means we need more reviews too15:49
* dragondm is happy to do a few...15:49
llu-laptopI'll do the review tomorrow.15:49
jd__thanks llu15:50
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gordcjd__ if i can understand it, i'll review it (ceilometer newbie) :)15:50
* eglynn will focus also on bug fixing & reviewing for the rest of the week ...15:50
llu-laptopAre we required to resolve bug 1093625 in RC1?15:53
jd__thanks guys15:53
jd__anything else or should I close this meeting?15:53
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1093625 in ceilometer "no metaquery implementation in sqlalchemy DB backends" [Medium,Confirmed]
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"15:53
openstackMeeting ended Thu Mar 21 15:53:15 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:53
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openstackMinutes (text):
jd__llu: you'll never know15:53
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jd__llu: I just dropped it from RC1, it's way too big for now15:53
llu-laptopjd__: agreed.15:53
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KharecPython3 meeting now :)15:59
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maksimovKharec: is it though?16:04
KharecAccording to
Kharecewindisch: hello16:06
ewindisch#startmeeting Python316:06
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 21 16:06:17 2013 UTC.  The chair is ewindisch. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:06
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Python3)"16:06
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'python3'16:06
ewindischgot distracted.16:06
ewindischwho is here?16:06
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Kharecewindisch: I'm here16:06
maksimovo/ :)16:07
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ewindisch#topic getting started16:07
*** openstack changes topic to "getting started (Meeting topic: Python3)"16:07
ewindischI'd like to discuss how we get started on this effort.16:07
ewindischfirst, my thoughts are that we should work on getting py3 compatibility in oslo16:08
ewindischas it is our library project and the barrier to anything else useing python316:08
ewindischsecondly, we can't make any progress at all without gating.16:09
ewindischgate testing, i.e. jenkins16:09
Kharecagreed :)16:10
maksimovis this an action item to follow up with infra team?16:10
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markmcclainshould be able to add py33 target to tox and then they can setup a job16:10
ewindischit will be. I'd like to discuss what that follow-up will be.16:10
ewindisch#topic gating python316:10
*** openstack changes topic to "gating python3 (Meeting topic: Python3)"16:10
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ewindischmarkmcclain: I'm not sure that adding a py33 target is the right thing (also, py33 targets already exist in tox, the py* targets are implicit and part of tox itself)16:11
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ewindischthe first barrier is that the code we have doesn't work with Python3 already. We can't simply require that any code uploaded works in Python3.16:12
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KharecSo what can we do?16:12
ewindischI was speaking with jog0 yesterday. He told me what they're doing with pyflakes and I think their model can be adapted.16:12
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ewindischthey test the previous revision of a file, test the current version, and look for differences.16:13
KharecSounds good16:13
ewindischI think we can do the same with '2to3'. It will be more binary, however. It will only make sure that a file is python3-compliant or not. It will only make sure that once a file becomes Python3-compatible, it doesn't regress.16:13
ewindischor maybe we can even use pyflakes /w python3 -- I haven't verified.16:14
Kharecso adapting their method with 2to3 ?16:14
ewindischso now...16:15
markmcclainI'm not sure 2to3 is something we want16:15
Kharecmaksimov: why?16:15
Kharecmarkmcclain: why?16:15
ewindischmarkmcclain: I mean only to run 2to3 determine if a file has "unconvertible python2 code"16:16
ewindischnot to use the patchset output of it.16:16
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ewindischbut if we can get a python3 pyflakes test working, that might be better.16:17
ewindisch#action ewindisch follow up with -infra to discuss gating16:17
rpodolyakaI'd rather we supported both 2.6+ and 3.2+ using six or something like that16:17
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ewindischrpodolyaka: I agree that we'll need to use six, or at least future imports.16:18
markmcclainok.. but 2to3 for checking just tells us the code cannot be converted.. .should we looking towards using something like six?16:18
ewindischrpodolyaka: but we need a way to gate and check that the code introduced, even with six, runs on Python316:19
ewindischwithout breaking tests for code that isn't (yet) supposed to run on Python316:19
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ewindischI don't think six is such a magic bullet you can simply import it and say, "this code works in Python3 now".16:21
ewindischand six isn't a gate-check for jenkins16:22
ewindischbut yes, I think it should be part of the strategy for making code compatible.16:22
markmcclainagreed.. but I'm still not sure how you reliably check patchset deltas for py3 compatibility16:22
KharecMaybe jenkins jobs with 2to3 works better. I don't think six is the solution too.16:22
markmcclainseems like the whole file would need to be checked16:23
ewindischmarkmcclain: if the previous version of a file passed a pyflakes or 2to3 check, then the current version should also pass. I.e. there shouldn't be a regression.16:23
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markmcclainok.. so if the old version failed then the new version can fail and that is ok16:23
ewindischso code that has never worked on python3 doesn't need to work with python3.16:24
ewindischonce it works, it stays working.16:24
markmcclainok.. now I'm following16:25
* markmcclain needs more coffee16:25
ewindischpyflakes tests would be better though. It will give a list of all the things broken in the code. The list of broken things in one version can be compared to the other version, which is much more granular.16:25
rpodolyakabut can we really trust pyflakes? E. g. a module may use some third-party modules that are not Python 3 compatible16:26
markmcclainrpodolyaka: doesn't execute code16:27
ewindischrpodolyaka: the reality is that we can't migrate any files to python3 that don't have working dependencies.16:27
ewindischso I'm not too worried about that16:27
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ewindischor at least even if we did, there is little benefit16:27
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ewindischthe dependency problem is going to be a big one.16:28
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ewindischwant to switch to dependancies or python3 version questions? I'm afraid they might be tied at the hip.16:28
markmcclainyeah let's switch16:29
ewindischbefore we do - does someone want to work on the 2to3 and/or pyflakes test?16:29
markmcclainI can take a stab at it16:30
ewindisch#action markmacclain to look at writing a py3 test16:30
ewindisch#topic python3 version and dependencies16:30
*** openstack changes topic to "python3 version and dependencies (Meeting topic: Python3)"16:30
ewindischso we need to figure out what version of python3 to support.16:30
maksimovthought the idea was to target 3.3+16:31
ewindischMy understanding is that 3.3+ is probably the only path that will allow you to write code that also runs on py26 and py27 without forking, or having really ugly constructs16:31
rpodolyakaI think, 3.2 is going to be a mainline version in distros like debian for a while16:31
rpodolyakamainline of 3.x16:32
ewindischhowever, we should consider that our dependencies might support earlier versions of Python3, but not Python 3.3.16:32
mikeypVersion will probably be driven by dependences more than anything else16:32
ewindischI'm inclined to think we target 3.3 and then retroactively add support for 3.2, if desirable or necessary. It probably will be necessary.16:33
ewindischPython 3.3 adds u'' back16:34
rpodolyakaAFAIK, that's the only thing in 3.3 that makes both 2.x/3.x support eaesier16:35
ewindischmikeyp: perhaps we should evaluate what dependencies we already have in Oslo that are compatible with Python3 and see what versions they support.16:35
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driptonI'm willing to dig through Nova deps and make a list of which ones support Python 3 and which version.16:35
ewindischdripton: I'd prefer it were oslo deps (since nova depends on oslo)16:36
markmcclainI think evaluating oslo is a good first step16:36
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mikeypewindsch: makes sense, that was where I thought we would start last year.16:36
ewindischdripton: will you do that then?16:36
driptonokay, I'll dig through oslo deps.16:36
ewindisch#action dripton to dig through oslo deps for version compat16:37
rpodolyakaeventlet doesn't seem to work in 3.x, does it?16:37
ewindischrpodolyaka: no, neither does gevent.16:37
ewindischI'm honestly not sure what exists except Tulip16:38
ewindisch(Guido's new pet project)16:38
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driptonTwisted doesn't work in 3 either, though some work has been done.  So basically no major async network libraries.16:38
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ewindischto that point, I've thought that we might actually want to start with oslo.config16:39
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ewindischit probably has the fewest horrible external dependencies (no eventlet) and is already out of incubation16:39
driptonBut what's the point of that, if we can't actually run openstack in Python 3?  Until we get eventlet ported, that just adds churn and work without really helping.16:40
ewindischplus we have the best chance of getting the an entire subproject/repository converted, which will be a good 'win'.16:40
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markmcclainyeah.. also limited in scope so it's a good place to learn16:41
ewindischdripton: my immediate goal for this effort is to facilitate the use of Python3 by new projects. Getting projects like Nova converted one day is noble, but we need to manage scope and take baby steps.16:41
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driptonok, as long as it doesn't make Nova worse to make hypothetical projects better16:42
driptonI'd be happiest with a big bang conversion, but we can't do that until we address dependencies.  Converting our code is the easy part.16:42
ewindischlets see what our dependencies look like and we can evaluate.16:43
ewindischbut I agree that dependencies such as Eventlet and Paste are going to be painful.16:43
ewindischbut there is enough work ahead that it doesn't have to be solved today.16:43
ewindischokay - anything else for version and deps?16:44
mikeypthe PSF is sponsoring some Python 3 conversions - for eventlet, might be able to get some help there16:44
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ewindischmikeyp: interesting. we should look into that.16:44
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ewindisch#action ewindisch to look at PSF sponsorship16:45
ewindischalso, once the TCs are elected, we might need to *propose* a version of Python3 to support for them to bless.16:45
ewindischanyone else have anything to discuss before we go to open discussion?16:46
ewindisch#topic open discussion16:46
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Python3)"16:46
driptonI think 3.2 is probably a waste of effort, since Python 3 isn't used much in production yet.  Might as well start with 3.3.  (Different from the 2.x case, where 2.6 is still used by older systems like RHEL.)16:47
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ewindischdripton: perhaps. It depends on the dependencies, I think.16:47
driptonTrue, when I generate the list we'll see if anything works on 3.2 but not 3.3.  I doubt it but we'll see.16:48
ewindischyeah, I think forward compatibility is good once you get over the 2->3 hump16:48
driptonOnce a mainstream distro like Ubuntu launches with 3.x as default Python, that particular x becomes important for backward compatibility.16:49
ewindischUbuntu already defaults to 3.2.316:49
ewindisch(ubuntu 12.10)16:49
dripton3.2.3 is included with Ubuntu but it's not the default Python; 2.7.x is.  A future Ubuntu will make 3.x the default and *that's* when it'll really be used.16:50
ewindischhmm, you're right.16:51
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ewindischUbuntu Raring will target Python 3.316:51
ewindischalso another gate we could do is to run unit tests with "python2.7 -3"16:52
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driptonShould I create, or is there a better place to put my list?16:53
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ewindischdripton: that sounds like a good idea.16:53
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driptonI'll also create with a pointer to the Python3Deps, as a placeholder for future work.16:54
ewindischa more ambtious goal might be to just extract the dependencies and do a lookup against the hall of shame16:54
ewindisch#action dripton create wiki pages16:54
driptonI'm going to do that, but I fear that hall of shame might not be 100% accurate/complete so I might have to dive into project web pages, etc.16:54
ewindischFinally, thank you everyone for helping with this effort.16:55
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"16:55
openstackMeeting ended Thu Mar 21 16:55:56 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:55
openstackMinutes (text):
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ewindischIf anyone wants to grab me to chat at any time, just hit me on IRC or email <>16:57
ewindischhave another meeting now :-/16:57
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sdaguewho's here for QA?17:00
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sdaguedavidkranz, you here?17:00
davidkranz#startmeeting qa17:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 21 17:00:24 2013 UTC.  The chair is davidkranz. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:00
davidkranzagenda at
davidkranzJay is on a plane.17:00
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davidkranzAny one from quantum here?17:01
dwalleckmlavalle is17:01
mlavalledavidkranz: yes, me17:01
davidkranzmlavalle: Given that we are at RC, what does it meant that the quantum tests are failing?17:02
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mlavalledavidkranz: I would need to take a look at the tests failling17:02
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zyluodavidkranz, do you have a jenkins log link of a failure?17:03
mlavallecan we do that between today and tomorrow?17:03
davidkranzONe sec..17:03
sdaguequantum full has never worked17:03
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mlavalledavidkranz: taking a look17:03
davidkranzI noticed this because I ran devstack/quantum today for the first time.17:03
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davidkranzsdague: I know, but we are supposed to be at release. Are the tests wrong?17:04
sdaguewhich is why we only gate on quantum smoke17:04
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sdaguedavidkranz: part of it is that quantum doesn't do everything that nova networks does (I think)17:04
zyluo56.414 | ERROR: No server with a name or ID of 'ex-vol-inst' exists.17:05
zyluoDoes this line have any thing with the error?17:05
davidkranzsdague: But these are quantum test, right? And we are at release.17:05
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davidkranzSo either the tests are wrong or quantum is broken.17:05
sdaguedavidkranz: not exactly17:05
sdaguewe always run the same tempest tests on all the full runs17:06
sdaguequantum means quantum was setup by devstack instead of nova-network17:06
sdagueit doesn't mean only quantum tests were run17:06
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davidkranzsdague: I understand. But I get the same errors running vanilla quantum/devstack.17:06
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davidkranzsdague: ANd it is the quantum tests that are failing.17:07
sdaguedavidkranz: oh, well that's different17:07
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davidkranzsdague: The failing tests are not even run in the devstack-vm-full17:07
sdagueI thought it was compute tests17:07
davidkranzsdague: Only in the quantum full.17:07
mlavalledavidkranz: the Quantum test that I see failling in the log is
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sdaguedavidkranz: can we handle this by making it a high priority bug on quantum, and engaging the PTL on it?17:08
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davidkranzsdague: Yes.17:08
davidkranzmlavalle: Are we sure these tests are supposed to work?17:09
mlavalledavidkranz: that test is not supposed to work in its current state17:09
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mlavalledavidkranz: because it asumes v1 of the Quantum API, which is not in the codebase anymore17:10
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davidkranzmlavalle: Are there any tests that are failing that are supposed to work?17:10
davidkranzmlavalle: It will be unfortunate if we cut stable/grizzly with zero quantum coverage.17:10
ravikumar_hpmlavalle: is the tests worked earlier?17:10
mlavalledavidkranz: It never worked under v2 of the API17:11
mlavalledavidkranz: I have a patchset that I pushed a couple of weeks ago17:11
mlavallethat addresses this issue17:11
sdaguemlavalle: review?17:12
mlavalledavidkranz: it was abandoned by Gerrit for lack of review17:12
mlavallesdague: I can resubmit and have the Quantum PTL review it and some of you17:12
davidkranzmlavalle: Can you take this to the quantum team and get a solution?17:12
mlavalledavidkranz: yes, I will and will resubmit the patchset17:13
sdaguemlavalle: please make sure there is an issue tracking it as well17:13
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mlavallesdague: I also documented the bug a few weeks ago17:14
mlavallegive me a minute and will give you the bug17:14
sdaguemlavalle: if it was this change, that still didn't pass quantum full -
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mlavallesdague: yes it was that patchset17:15
mlavalleyou gave a -1, because you asked me whether version 1 had also to be supported17:15
mlavalleI responded that v1 wasn't in the codebase anymore17:16
sdaguemlavalle: ok, sorry about that, we've had some email delay issues17:17
sdaguebut it doesn't explain why it still didn't let quantum full pass17:17
mlavallesdague: so here's what I propose. I resubmit the patchset, and have it reviewed by the Quantum PTL and some of you17:18
sdagueif the api change is the only issue17:18
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sdaguelets see if we can get to quantum full passing as well17:18
davidkranzmlavalle: I propose we table this for now so we can discuss the summit and we can resolve this after that, or outside of this meeting.17:18
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mlavalledavidkranz: perfect17:19
davidkranzI think we should wait for these tests before cutting stable/grizzly if it will be soon.17:19
sdaguedavidkranz: sure17:19
sdaguesoon really means the end of this week though17:19
sdaguebecause havana is now open on most trees17:20
sdaguewhich means we might need to start taking destabalizing tempest patches to support havana17:20
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davidkranzsdague: Yeah. I guess we can backport the quantum stuff.17:20
sdagueI think everything except ceilo is in release branches now (keystone went this morning)17:20
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mlavalledavidkranz: I can work today and tomorow on this17:20
davidkranzsdague: How about we cut it tomorrow.17:20
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davidkranzsdague: Are you going to give the go-ahead to ci to make the branch?17:21
andreafhi sorry I'm late17:21
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mtreinishdavidkranz: I thought that we were cutting it today?17:22
sdaguedavidkranz: sure we can do it tomorrow17:22
davidkranzmtreinish: Did you look at the above discussion?17:22
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sdaguettx needs to do the actual tag for us, and I need to sort out ci switch over17:22
sdagueso I'll take the todo to make it happen tomorrow17:22
davidkranzsdague: Great. Thanks.17:23
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davidkranz#topic havana summit17:23
*** openstack changes topic to "havana summit (Meeting topic: qa)"17:23
davidkranzI added the list of sessions that were submitted at the bottom with some comments and recommendations.17:24
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davidkranzIf any one objects to my "Y" or "N" please say so.17:24
mtreinishdavidkranz: the Y's and N's look fine to me.17:25
ravikumar_hpdavidkranz: what is ?17:25
mtreinishAlthough, I'm not sure there is that much left to talk about with the multiple api versions17:25
ravikumar_hpdavidkranz: ?        Tempest - Gap Analysis - Identify new testsdevelop Ravikumar Venkatesan17:25
davidkranzravikumar_hp: That is for discussion. THere is not room for all of them.17:25
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sdaguedavidkranz: I agree with all your Y & N on there17:25
davidkranzmtreinish: There is the major issue of what principles we use to decide which tests to run, and which are part of the gate.17:26
ravikumar_hpi think whitebox may be developer scope17:26
davidkranzmtreinish: In most cases the new api will have a lot that was also in the old api.17:26
davidkranzmtreinish: But the implementation may be different.17:26
davidkranzAnd we can't keep everything in the gate forever.17:27
davidkranzSo I still think there are issues to discuss.17:27
ravikumar_hpwhy tempest should take care of whitebox?17:27
mtreinishdavidkranz: very true, I guess I was just thinking about it from the implementation side17:27
dwalleckI think its because there's some differing in wording about whitebox testing17:27
davidkranzmtreinish: I'll put this session in a place that is better if it does not take the full time.17:27
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sdaguedavidkranz: so there is probably an infrastructure topic we want to do about optimizing what's run in gate that might be the multi api version bits17:28
dwalleckI know jaypipes would call logging into instances and doing validation whitebox17:28
andreafravikumar_hp: we cannot provide good coverage only via API driven tests17:28
sdagueyeh, whitebox testing session should probably go in as well17:28
ravikumar_hpandreaf: core services has whitebox tests17:28
dwalleckBut for me that's critical path testing. I can't release/deploy without testing the things I actually create17:28
sdaguedoes someone want to own that17:28
davidkranzsdague: You mean combining it with Strategies for Gating in a growing project?17:28
dwalleckI will17:28
Rackspace-SamI agree with adreaf, an api only test is not good coverage17:28
dwalleckor Sam and I will :)17:29
sdaguedavidkranz: possibly17:29
patelna_we need revisit what is our charter and what tests will be developed, run where? Devstack is not a solution17:29
Rackspace-SamYeah, We can own that one if it's ok with everyone. :-)17:29
Rackspace-Samthe whitebox one I mean.17:29
sdagueRackspace-Sam: cool17:29
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sdaguepatelna_: I think there are plenty of places to discuss that in our scope conversations17:30
davidkranzDoes any one have a strong opinion about the "?" cases to include or reject?17:30
sdaguethough honestly, the last couple of summits have lots of people complain about stuff like that, promiss to do things, and never show up with code. so I'm not actually sure it's a productive conversation to have.17:31
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patelna_agree...also revisit nightly test driven environment17:31
davidkranzAlso, at the last summit we had some QA group discussion outside of the scheduled summit sessions.17:31
davidkranzI presume we will do that again.17:31
ravikumar_hpdavidkranz: I thnik Reliability and Scalability Testing  - to be Y17:31
davidkranzSo there will be time for other discussions.17:31
sdagueyeh, stuff like that we can take into uncoference17:31
sdagueravikumar_hp: I'm N on that17:31
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davidkranzsdague: And we have the beer session as well :)17:32
sdaguebecause I don't know how it would generate work we would do17:32
Rackspace-SamI like reliability as an unconference as well. :-)17:32
dwalleckyeah, I can do that as an unconference17:32
patelna_let's plan to have unconference session ...discuss nightly process and multi-node config as the stacks have grown now17:32
dwalleckI have some fun stuff I can show that might be helpful :)17:32
sdagueremember, the point of design summit sessions is that every 6 months we get a chance to get together and discuss how to plan out the last 6 months17:32
sdaguesorry, next 6 months17:33
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davidkranzI think Monty's session (the last one) could cover some of this as well.17:34
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sdagueyep, that one is good17:34
sdagueI think gap analysis should move to Y17:34
sdagueand I like the metrics and statistics one as well17:34
Rackspace-SamGap analysis is cool, but maybe an unconference topic too?17:34
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sdagueRackspace-Sam: well, how many did we decide to push to uncoference? :)17:35
Rackspace-SamLOL good point. :-)17:35
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dwallecksdague: Yeah, I'm biased, but I think there's a lot of interest info we can be gathering17:35
sdaguethe way I think about the split is "unconference" tempest sessions should be "this is a neat idea, though I don't know how we'd address it in Havana in a systematic way"17:36
davidkranzWe have six "?" and room for three in the schedule17:36
sdaguedavidkranz: is that after adding white box?17:36
davidkranzNo. That has to be submitteed as a session.17:36
sdagueand what's with line 18217:37
sdaguethat just has your name with a Y :)17:37
ravikumar_hpfree spech by david17:37
davidkranzDon't know how that happened17:37
mtreinishdavidkranz: wasn't that the strategies for gating line?17:38
sdaguedavidkranz: so how many slots do we get again? just making sure the Ys all line up17:38
davidkranzmtreinish: Yes.17:39
sdagueok, that's important17:39
sdaguelet's get that back in17:39
davidkranzmtreinish: I cut instead of copy when I pasted that above.17:39
sdaguewhat is the clients bit?17:39
davidkranzI just reverted17:40
davidkranzsdague: We have 12 slots total17:40
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sdaguealso, I feel like we should circle around with Dean on grenade17:40
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sdagueas I'd like to see that rolled in more17:40
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davidkranzThere are now 12 Y17:40
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sdaguedwalleck: what was your proposal on stats?17:41
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dwallecksdague: The possibility of instrumenting the tests to gather timing/build time/etc further metrics for analysis17:42
sdagueto understand if that's something we summit time for17:42
dwalleckIn short17:42
davidkranzNow we have 1317:42
sdaguedwalleck: so actually, can we just agree yes17:42
sdagueand take the conversation of how to the ML?17:42
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davidkranzThat sounds reasonable17:43
dwallecksounds good17:43
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sdagueso if we take off metrics17:43
davidkranzmtreinish: OK, we will fold API versions to the general gating discussion.17:43
sdagueI'd like to hold one slot to try to get dean in on grenade17:44
sdaguefor upgrade testing in the gate17:44
davidkranzsdague: OK17:44
mtreinishdavidkranz: ok sure that should be fine17:44
sdaguethen I think we've got 12 (and we can juggle later if we need to)17:44
Rackspace-SamI think its a good plan17:44
sdagueand do the performance one as unconference17:45
davidkranzsdague: Right now there are 11.17:45
ravikumar_hpsdague: looks good. all interesting and relevant topics17:45
davidkranzsdague: Which do you propose changing to Y17:45
davidkranzsdague: OK17:45
davidkranzsdague: Are you going to submit that session?17:45
davidkranzWho is going to submit whitebox?17:46
sdaguedavidkranz: I'll circle with dtroyer to get him to submit it17:46
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davidkranzsdague: k17:46
sdagueI think Rackspace-Sam said he would do whitebox17:46
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davidkranzRackspace-Sam: Can you do that after the meeting?17:46
Rackspace-SamYeah. I'll submit whitebox testing/testing beyond the API. :-)17:46
davidkranzRackspace-Sam: Thanks.17:46
davidkranzAnything else on the summit schedule?17:47
sdagueonly and FYI17:47
sdagueI figured I'd do a Tempest 101 session as an early unconference17:47
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davidkranzsdague: Sounds good.17:47
sdaguedavidkranz: also, don't schedule any of my talks for 5:20 on Tues, because I'm giving a User Summit talk :)17:47
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davidkranzsdague: Noted.17:48
davidkranzAny one else with any kind of scheduling issue?17:48
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Rackspace-Samdavidkranz: It's already submitted. It's called Beyond the API, End-2-End testing of OpenStack. Do you want us to submit it with a different title to be more distinct?17:48
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davidkranzI will make sure our 3 overlap slots with process are not of mutual intersest.17:48
davidkranzRackspace-Sam: Not necessary.17:48
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davidkranz#topic Open Discussion17:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: qa)"17:49
Rackspace-SamExcellent. I had a bit of an announcement/update for the community if I could. :-)17:49
davidkranzRackspace-Sam: Please17:50
Rackspace-SamCool. Thanx David17:50
Rackspace-Samwe have been working really hard on how to share back with the community a lot of what we have been doing internally for testing in our pipeline after tempest has gated OpenStack17:50
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Rackspace-Samand been talking a lot with Monty and the OpenStack CI team about getting Rackspace and others Ci closer to the open CI pipe17:51
Rackspace-Samand we are planning on open sourcing our full internal functional testing engine/test suites that we use in our pipeline. We will be placing this on stack forge early next week17:52
Rackspace-Samand will follow up with a heads up on the ML17:52
sdagueRackspace-Sam: cool17:52
davidkranzRackspace-Sam: That's great!17:52
mtreinishRackspace-Sam: very cool17:52
Shree-HPdavidkranz> in the last few meeting, we discussed some tests on Multinode config testing especially with Quantum. Are we planning discuss this as part of unconf topic? that or some more on fuzzy logic for negative testing or test automation for build readability in Jenkins. etc?17:52
andreafRackspace-Sam: great thanks!17:52
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davidkranzShree-HP: I think this is covered by one of the session topics.17:53
mtreinishone quick think from me: on cyeoh suggested only using one format for bugs in skip messages17:53
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sdagueRackspace-Sam: you guys want to do an Infra session at summit on that?17:53
mtreinishI was wondering if people had preferences on the format (or with should stick with the multiple formats like we have now)17:54
patelna_@Rackspace-Sam - good to hear your contributions17:54
Rackspace-Samsdague: Yes. We would love to a session if everyone is interested17:54
sdagueit sort of sits 1/2 way between QA and Infra17:54
sdaguebut I'd like a discussion regardless to figure out how we can integrate it17:54
sdagueeven if we need to drop a QA topic we just agreed to :)17:54
davidkranzShree-HP: Maybe " FITS testing of public clouds Monty Taylor "17:54
patelna_cool request17:54
Shree-HPdavidkranz> thanks will check with Monty17:55
davidkranzsdague: Maybe we can get Process to take it?17:55
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Rackspace-Samour goal really is just to share what we have been working on and get teh community concensus on where it might fit in the open, what the best use of hte code base is, etc...17:55
davidkranzShree-HP: Otherwise unconference is fine.17:55
sdagueRackspace-Sam: well submit, if we need to fiddle we can17:56
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patelna_we like to hear from Rackspace-Sam on what he has done17:56
Rackspace-SamifSo you want us to submit a topic specifically on our internal test engine?17:56
sdagueRackspace-Sam: well in what you guys are putting to stackforge17:56
sdagueso that we can figure out the right ways to pull parts in17:57
davidkranzRackspace-Sam: Doing a walkthrough could be really helpful as an overview.17:57
Rackspace-SamWe will have several of our core test frameworks devs with us at the conference17:57
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sdaguedavidkranz: if we needed to drop a session to fit this, Avoiding duplication between unit and tempest tests David Kranz   is probably the one to drop, because I doubt we'll have that many project devs in the room to help with it17:58
davidkranzRackspace-Sam: I will beg THierry for another slot.17:58
sdagueand that was mostly about education I thought back to the projects17:58
Rackspace-SamWe could actually use our engine that we are planning on dropping at stack forge as a case study in part of our topics. Whatever you guys think is best. :-)17:58
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ravikumar_hpRackspace-Sam: what is the timeframe17:59
sdagueRackspace-Sam: yeh, submit a session, we can fiddle with the calendar later17:59
Shree-HPRackspace-Sam> I am mainly interested in the negative fuzz logic for testing negative tests and the multinode tests if u have that at rackspace17:59
Rackspace-Samcool. I'll submit something about our frameworks Case Study17:59
sdaguedammit, too much good stuff to discuss :)17:59
Shree-HPwe are developing something similar at HP and comparing the approach will be a good excercise17:59
ravikumar_hpRackspace-Sam: can we discuss in unconference session18:00
Rackspace-SamWe have a good bit of various tests, the framework is plug-in and extension based, we will be releasing the engine, the OpenStack impl of that engine and a sub-set of the tests initially. We will then be releasing all of our OpenStack related test cases in the framework before the summit happens.18:00
Shree-HPRackspace-Sam> looking forward to it. thanks18:01
sdagueok, got to run to another meeting now18:01
davidkranzI think we are out of time....18:01
sdaguesee you guys in -qa18:01
davidkranzThanks every one. Good meeting.18:01
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sdaguewhere more folks should hang out18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"18:02
openstackMeeting ended Thu Mar 21 18:02:02 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:02
openstackMinutes (text):
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Rackspace-SamCool Folks, I proposed Rackspace testing engine Case Study/Overview to talk about it. :-)18:03
Rackspace-Samgotta run. Will talk to everyone soon.18:04
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sn1p3r_rax_QEo/ bye openstack meeting18:04
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bdpayne#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group18:07
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 21 18:07:46 2013 UTC.  The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:07
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:07
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'18:07
bdpaynehi everyone18:08
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bdpaynesorry that we're starting a little late today18:08
bdpayneI'd like to begin with syncing on items from last week18:09
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bdpayne#topic Checking in on action items18:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Checking in on action items (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:09
bdpayneI'd like to report some progress on the idea of doing a documentation sprint for the security guide18:09
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bdpayneAnne put me in touch with the person who they have used in the past for such efforts18:10
bdpayneI got some details on cost and such, and am figuring our how to best most ahead18:10
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bdpaynenoslzzp is traveling, but has been helping with this18:11
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bdpayneWe may need some sponsorship money to help make this happen.  If anyone's company would like to play that role, please let me know18:11
bdpayneThe idea would be as follows18:11
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bdpayneI'm thinking 4-8 weeks post summit18:11
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bdpayneGet 8-10 people together in a room somewhere for 5 days18:12
bdpaynefinish the week with a guide written18:12
bdpaynesponsorship money would help cover the cost of the facilitator, and the travel costs for participants18:13
bdpayneSo, if you'd like to be involved as a participant, or a sponsor, then please sync with me18:13
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bdpayneany comments on this?18:14
bdpayneor any other progress to report?18:14
bdpaynenoisy crowd today ;-)18:15
bdpaynein other news, noslzzp put up a PR for the security guide to start working in markdown18:16
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bdpayneI'd like to rip out the latex files still… but we can start working on the markdown side of things now18:17
bdpayneso hopefully that helps others to get involved18:18
bdpayne#topic Summit Planning18:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit Planning (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:18
bdpaynenot sure who all is here today… but I'd like to start thinking a bit more about the summit18:19
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bdpayneRob and I will be giving a talk on the current status of OSSG18:19
bdpayneIf anyone has suggestions for things that should go into that talk, please let us know18:20
bdpaynewhat other talks are OSSG related at the summit?18:20
rellerrellerThere are two key manager talks.  Malini is hosting a design session and Rackspace has a user session talk.18:20
bdpayneok, sounds good18:21
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lglendenthere are 9 user sessions tagged as security:
bdpaynewill there also be a design session on the storage encryption work?18:21
rellerrellerAPL has two design sessions on storage encryption18:21
rellerrellerOne is in Nova and the other in Cinder18:21
lglendenwe have not submitted the descriptions yet but are planning to do so next week18:21
bdpayneok, sounds good18:22
rellerrellerGood point, Laura.  I got a little ahead of myself.18:22
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bdpayneperhaps we can put together a "navigating the summit for security geeks" guide ;-)18:23
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lglendenthere are a couple of other talks that may be of interest that aren't tagged as in the security track18:23
lglendenI haven't gone through them all yet18:23
bdpaynealso, what would you guys say about a Monday night dinner for OSSG?18:23
bdpaynelooks like there are parties every night, so we'll need to just grab a day to meet18:24
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lglendensounds good with me18:24
bdpaynelet's plan on that18:25
rellerrellerI can't make the summit or else I would go18:25
bdpayneI'll explore restaurant options18:25
bdpayneperhaps we can get a head count within a week or so18:25
bdpayne#action everyone get head count for OSSG dinner on Monday night at summit18:26
bdpayne#Final Words18:26
bdpayne#topic Final Words18:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Final Words (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:26
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bdpaynethat's all I have for today18:26
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bdpayneRob will be leading this weekly meetings for a little bit going forward as I'm pretty bogged down here at work right now18:26
bdpaynebut I'll aim to still be around… so feel free to touch base18:27
bdpayneany other comments / thoughts for today?18:27
lglendenI was wondering if anyone knew more about Rackspace's proposed key manager18:27
nicolae_just wanted to say hi to everyone -- just joined the group (n-paladi)18:27
bdpayneindeed, hi nicolae_18:28
bdpayneok… more next week18:28
bdpaynethanks everyone18:28
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"18:29
openstackMeeting ended Thu Mar 21 18:29:07 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:29
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russellb#startmeeting nova21:02
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 21 21:02:04 2013 UTC.  The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:02
russellb#chair vishy21:02
openstackCurrent chairs: russellb vishy21:02
russellbWho's around to talk about Nova?21:02
* dansmith gurgles21:02
russellb7 so far :)21:03
russellb#topic grizzly-rc1 and maybe rc221:03
*** openstack changes topic to "grizzly-rc1 and maybe rc2 (Meeting topic: nova)"21:04
russellb200 bugs closed in 4 weeks :)21:04
russellbbugs fixed*21:04
mikalThat's pretty cool21:04
russellbeven more closed21:04
russellbyeah, i thought that was pretty awesome21:04
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mikalStill a pretty big collection of ancient bugs to close though...21:05
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russellbThere is the possibility of grizzly-rc221:05
russellbvishy pointed out this bug earlier today:
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1158179 in oslo "Lockutils - deletes directory rendering locks invalid" [Undecided,In progress]21:05
russellbso we should be on the lookout for other bugs that may be rc2 worthy21:05
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russellbWe have 24 new bugs, need to triage those, hopefully nothing release blocker worthy21:06
boris-42I don't know is this only caused by wrong settings or something is not ok with service update method…21:06
boris-42But I wrote tests for db.service methods recent.. so it should work as expected..21:07
russellbgrizzly-3?  ancient!21:08
russellbanything else on grizzly rc status?21:08
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russellb#topic design summit21:08
*** openstack changes topic to "design summit (Meeting topic: nova)"21:08
russellb#link http://summit.openstack.org21:09
russellbwe already have more proposals than time slots :-)21:09
russellbofficial deadline is end of March, but if you know of something you want to propose, please do it as soon as you're able21:09
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russellbi'm trying to get as much of the planning done early as possible21:09
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russellbas i'll be on vacation for the beginning of april, for most of the time before summit21:09
russellbalso take a look over what's proposed and see what you think is missing21:10
russellbas far as big topics that you'd expect to be discussed21:10
russellbany questions / comments about design summit planning?21:10
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russellb#topic backportable db migrations21:11
*** openstack changes topic to "backportable db migrations (Meeting topic: nova)"21:11
sdagueonly question, did you get quantum folks to buy into the cross sessions?21:11
russellbsdague: yes, I spoke to Mark yesterday about it and he's totally on board21:11
russellbour idea was to reserve 2 sessions for Nova + Quantum people21:12
russellbone at the beginning of the week, and one near the end21:12
russellbone to outline some goals, identify quantum as a priority for nova, discuss what it would take to become the default ...21:12
russellband then again to get back together, identify concrete tasks, and discuss anything that changed in our thinking as we went through the rest of our sessions21:12
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russellbhopefully we'll fit in a room :)21:13
russellbsdague: how does that sound to you?21:13
sdaguerussellb: sounds good.21:13
russellbso on this db migrations thing ... i mainly wanted nova-core to be aware to make sure everyone kept it in mind when reviewing migrations21:14
russellbthe placeholders should not be replaced with a real migration in havana (i saw that in one patch today)21:14
mikalWe expect new migrations to consume one of those reserved numbers? Or to start after those?21:14
mikalAnd the reseved ones are for grizzly?21:14
russellbstart after those21:14
mikalAhhh, ok, yeah21:14
mikalThere was a review which did the wrong thing yesterday then21:15
russellbdidn't go in did it?21:15
boris-42Probably we should add big comment?21:15
boris-42DO NOT REPLACE THIS?)21:15
mikalrussellb: no --
russellbboris-42: sure :-)21:16
mikalboris-42: I like idiot proofing21:16
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driptonI'll add comments to the placeholder migrations to make it clear.21:16
russellbmikal: k thx21:16
russellbgood idea21:16
russellbother thing to make sure of is that migrations are idempotent21:16
mikalrussellb: I'll make sure matiu knows to not replace that21:16
russellbin theory that makes them safe to backport if someone chooses to ...21:16
russellband let this be motivation for someone to work on alembic again :-)21:17
driptonWe have now which makes it somewhat easier to test idempotence.21:17
boris-42I will be glad=)21:17
* matiu reads back21:17
driptonAt least it tests that they go up and back down correctly.21:17
boris-42to avoid sqlalchemy-migration at all=)21:17
driptonIf there's sufficient interest in Alembic for backportable migrations, then I will bring up to date.21:17
sdagueexcept, doesn't alembic cause the other issue where you can't backport unless you backport exactly the same migration?21:18
sdagueI thought that came up in summit last time21:18
matiuyeah I fixed that review already, I put the placeholder back :)21:18
sdagueor is the a concept of a merge migration to handle that?21:18
russellbsdague: i don't know, i'd like to get some concrete info on how it would work in that case21:18
driptonsdague: alembic supports arbitrary ordering of migrations (like git with commits), so you could theoretically rework the migration into almost-the-same for your backport, if needed.21:19
driptonit's the static ordering that kills us with migrate.  As far as the APIs go I don't care.21:19
sdaguedripton: ok, well it's probably worth chatting about in portland21:19
russellbwould be good to write up some documentation with a proposal to migrate to it21:20
sdaguejust to make sure all the edge cases are covered, like a long running grizzly tree with 5 backported migrations that aren't exactly the same as havana, and then trying to roll forward to havana release21:20
russellbto cover the work needed to migrate, and how it would (or wouldn't) help backportability, etc.21:20
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driptonI'll write up a blueprint for switching to alembic.21:20
sdaguedripton: awesome21:21
russellbthat would be great21:21
russellbblueprints also have a "link to specification"21:21
russellbwould be good to write up details on the wiki and link to it21:21
boris-42dription +121:21
* russellb notes that quantum uses alembic21:21
russellbso we wouldn't be breaking new ground for openstack in general21:22
driptonbut they just started using it so I don't think they have much to tell us.  It just means OpenStack doesn't gain another dependency.21:22
russellbbut they started fresh IIRC, as opposed to having to migrate to it21:22
sdagueyeh, the cuttover will be "fun" :)21:23
mikalWell, we do love a good painful migration...21:23
russellbcool, anything more on this topic?21:24
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russellb#topic review criteria21:24
*** openstack changes topic to "review criteria (Meeting topic: nova)"21:24
russellbSo, nova-core is pretty big, and consistency in the way we review is something we should always be striving for21:24
russellbso I think it's a good topic to bring up any week21:24
russellbone thing I thought about today was around OpenStack API changes21:25
russellbwe discussed before about requiring API samples, which is great21:25
russellbi was thinking we should also require a corresponding novaclient patch be ready to go21:25
driptonHow does that work with gerrit since nova and novaclient are in different repos?21:26
russellbseem reasonable?21:26
sdaguesounds reasonable, might make people look at novaclient more often if nothing else21:26
russellbjust convention21:26
sdaguedripton: yeh, just like adding tempest tests21:26
alaskiI like it, though I'm one of the recent offenders21:26
sdagueyou can't enforce it on a single commit21:26
russellbalaski: cool ;-)21:26
sdaguebut you can shame people if they don't do it21:26
driptonok, we're good at shame21:26
sdaguewell, we can make it possitive and have mikal hand out cookies :)21:27
sdaguefor those that do it right21:27
mikalWe certainly need to get better at paying attention to novaclient21:27
russellband gold stars!21:27
mikalsdague: I can do that...21:27
russellbso i just have a review queue bookmark that shows me all the stuff i want to be reviewing regularly21:28
russellbbut to each their own, whatever works for you21:28
sdagueI wonder if there is a way to trick gerrit into showing novaclient as well when you click nova in the ui21:28
russellbbut using that bookmark the last few weeks has been very helpful21:28
mikalThere is a project search param21:28
driptonrussellb: can you paste your bookmark again (mine is probably worse)21:28
mikalBut I'm not sure it can do two projects at once21:28
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russellbthat's what i'm using ... you can edit to your liking21:28
mikalOh, nice21:28
mikalThat's better than mine21:29
driptonbetter than mine too.  Stealing.21:29
russellbheh, steal away21:29
sdaguerussellb: that should go somewhere, it's super useful21:29
russellbsdague: it's going in the meeting log!21:29
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russellbsdague: but yeah, dunno where to put it21:29
driptonwiki page?21:29
russellbwhich one21:30
russellbi just made that up.21:30
russellb#topic open discussion21:31
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)"21:31
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russellbthat's all i had21:31
mikalI want to know if anyone is using moniker at all21:31
russellbsdague: ah good idea :)21:31
sdaguenow it will be in the highlights :)21:31
mikalGiven I discovered it this morning21:31
mikalAnd if people are, should I rip the DNS driver layer out of nova-network21:31
mikalEspecially given it only supports LDAP backed DNS21:32
dripton exists now21:32
russellbi don't think we should be considering ripping anything out in favor of something that's not even incubated yet21:32
mikalrussellb: I think that depends on if _anyone_ uses the current implementation21:32
russellband i think it'd be worth asking the quantum folks what they think about the direction of DNS support21:32
mikalI am accussing it of being dead code21:33
russellbpresumably who added it uses it?21:33
mikalThat would be wikimedia21:33
* devananda shows up late (packing for a 10-day trip), reads scrollback21:33
russellbdevananda: we signed you up to fix everything21:33
sdagueany idea if monkier is applying for incubation?21:34
devanandarussellb: perfect. I'll have plenty of time on the plane :)21:34
sdaguejust to even know if it's fruitful21:34
russellbdevananda: enjoy your trip :)21:34
driptondevananda: if you can fix all 400 bugs on the plane trip, I'll buy your plane ticket.21:34
mikalThey're on stackforge, which I think means yes?21:34
russellbmikal: recent activity?21:34
mikalMarch was quiet for them21:35
mikalThere's basically one developer as well, which is a concern21:35
mikalFor people's benefit, the back story is I'm sitting one a dyndns driver for the dns layer in nova-network21:35
russellbreach out to the dev, ask him how he views the status/future21:35
mikalAnd I'm trying to decide if I send it off for review, or redo with moniker21:35
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sdaguemikal: yeh, one dev doesn't make an incubated project21:37
russellbmikal: meh, send for review, you've already done the work21:37
mikalrussellb: fair enough21:37
mikalrussellb: I'm annoyed with myself mostly21:37
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mikalsdague: well, I could fix that by helping him...21:37
russellbmay have to get redone someday for quantum, if that stuff ends up in quantum21:38
driptonthere are actually at least 3 devs. It's just 1 has done most of the recent work.21:38
mikalThe other factor is moniker is biggish for what it does, and another daemon to setup21:38
mikalSo maybe that makes having a DNS driver in nova more exciting21:38
sdagueor quantum?21:38
mikalTop authors (mikal is 0 lines):21:38
mikal  4: andrewbogott21:38
mikal  10: Davide Guerri21:38
mikal  124: Andrey Perminov21:38
mikal  154: JC Martin21:38
mikal  1713: Patrick Galbraith21:38
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mikal  6690: Endre Karlson21:38
mikal  30395: Kiall Mac Innes21:38
mikal(Says my crappy script)21:38
mikalSo its mostly one person21:38
sdaguewhat about by changesets?21:39
sdaguelines are always skewed21:39
russellbhow about email openstack-dev and ask about project status/future?21:39
russellbwe're just guessing here21:39
mikalYeah, I'll send an email21:39
mikalI might as -operators if anyone has the current DNS driver deployed as well21:39
mikalsdague: 309 changesets from Kiall, the next closest is Endre with 30.21:40
mikalSo yeah, this is mostly me picking y'alls brains21:40
mikalIt seems there's some hesitation with moniker, so I'll go and ask questions21:40
russellbow that hurts21:40
russellbany other comments / questions / rants ?21:41
russellballllllrighty then, thanks!21:43
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"21:43
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